November 9, 2023 • 19 mins
Maria chats with renowned cat behavior scientist Dr. Sarah Brown about her book The Hidden Language of Cats--How They Have Us at Meow.
Learn about the signals your cat is giving you just by its body language!
This book is delightful and full of info for the cat lover, new cat owner and anyone who wants to know more about our 4-legged pets!
Learn about the signals your cat is giving you just by its body language!
This book is delightful and full of info for the cat lover, new cat owner and anyone who wants to know more about our 4-legged pets!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
It's Maria's MutS and Stuff. Whata great idea on iHeartRadio. Welcome to
Maria's MutS and Stuff and with me. I'm so very very thrilled. Today
is doctor Sarah Brown, who isthe author of the Hidden Language of Cats,
(00:23):
How They Have Us at Meow,so clever title, such a delightful
book. I'm so happy to chatwith you about I love this book.
By the way, Thank you somuch, Thank you so much for inviting
me. Absolutely so, how didthis all begin? What made you decide?
I would assume you love cats.I know you love cats, and
(00:44):
is that why you decided to writethis book? Yeah? So I do
love cats, and I've worked withthem for many, many years, over
thirty years. And the reason Idecided to write this book was that over
those years, I've so often heardcats describe as cool or aloof or uncommunicative,
especially when people are comparing them todogs. Sure, and so I
(01:07):
always thought that was a little bitharsh, because cats actually have quite a
lot to say for themselves. Theyjust have a different, more subtle style
of communication people and to dogs.And so we just have to look a
bit closer and work a bit harderto understand what they're trying to say.
So I decided to gather up allwe know about the different ways in which
they communicate, all the amazing scienceout there that's been done, and put
(01:32):
it all together in a book sothat to encourage people to take a closer
look at their cats in their livesand to think about what the cats are
seeing and smelling and hearing, andhow best to interact with them. So
that's kind of the synopsis of thebook. Yes, yeah, and that
makes sense because I'm sure for someonewho has a cat, if you understand
(01:52):
the body language and all the differentthings, because you know, animals do
give us clues just because we don'tspeak they don't speak English if you pay
attention, right, So I mean, actually, this is like, it's
an excellent It's like a guide foranyone who wants to understand their cat or
a cat better. So you justmentioned how they're very different than dogs,
(02:14):
and I know you know some youjust know whether a dog is wagging its
tail or if a dog is barkingor growling. Are there any similarities that
a cat will do that a dogwill do? If that makes sense?
So I suppose there are some similarities. So both species are very very conscious
(02:36):
of scent, that's sort of theygo to methods of communication, so they're
both very tuned into that. ButI think there's probably a lot of differences,
like you say already, so like, for example, you know,
when a cat wags its tail,it's not a good sign, not a
happy sign, whereas when a dogwags its tail, sure, the complete
opposite. It's usually pleased to seeyou. And so but what's interesting,
(03:00):
stingers is the study done that thecats and dogs living together quite often learn
that that that means the opposite signalin the opposite species. So you know,
a dog will learn that a catwaiting its tail is not in and
also things like sniffing when when adog sniffs another dog, they like to
sniff the rear edg whereas cats quiteoften will approach each other's nose to nose
(03:23):
a thing called touch noses and sniffeach other's nose. And so a dog
living with a cat has to alsolearn to, you know, do the
more polite cat approach. Interesting,yeah, and I didn't realize that that's
right, and so they I guessknow, but I guess for just like
a dog will know it's human habits, cats will do the same thing.
(03:46):
So I guess that that enables thecat to learn what the dog is signaling,
and the dog to learn what thecat is signaling. It's mind bar
exactly right. Yeah, that areso clever. They watch us and they
learn and they you know, theylearn, you know, how to to
get our attention. M yeah,yeah, and they're very smart about it,
right, there's yes, they're verysmart. No, it's true.
(04:09):
So was there anything I mean,because I know, being around cats and
loving cats like you do doing theresearch for the book, was there anything
that that even surprised you that youdidn't realize about a cat or that or
you know everything, many things.I mean, However, a long you've
(04:30):
worked with cats, you're always learningnew something, especially with all the scientific
studies coming out all the time.So reading some of them, you know,
I learned new things that you know, made me go wow. So
for example, you know, weknow that meows are mainly directed towards humans
rather than rather than other cats bycats. And I also knew that cats
(04:51):
meows were more higher pitched domestic catsand more higher pitched than their ancestral species,
the African wildcat. But what itdidn't realize was this pitch, this
higher pitch, is almost exactly thesame as the pitch of a human baby's
cry, which, as we allknow, is incredibly hard to ignore.
So I feel like it's amazing somehowthey've worked out that the actual pitch of
(05:15):
the meow is best, you know, at that level, that's the best
way to get our attention. Interesting, you know, try and pretend you're
a baby, right, and thatwill get the humans attention. It will
every time, right. Wow.And Also the other interesting thing I've found,
which which I was sort of awareof, and I think most people
(05:35):
are aware of, is how wepitch our voices back to the cats.
We talk in this high pitched,you know, baby talk voice and which
we call mother ease. And thisstudy study done quite recently, showed that
when listening to their owner's, catscan tell the difference between this speech directed
(05:56):
at them. This mother is tillbetween that speech and the speech directed to
other humans. So speaking to anotherhuman, they know that they're not talking
to them, but when we suddenlyput on our baby voice, they pay
attention. Well that, you know, that's really fascinating to me, because
you know, you said it earlierhow people always think that cats are so
cool and aloof but they probably it'sprobably because they're smarter than dogs. And
(06:21):
I think because they realize, oh, the humans not talking to me,
so I don't have to pay attentionwhere a dog always I think, you
know, because you use like thehigh pitched baby voice around dogs too.
But I think dogs just always thinkthat you're paying attention to them. I
think they Yeah, we have adifferent relationship a lot of the time with
(06:44):
our dogs, which is partly,like I said, like why I wrote
the book because I want people tonotice their cats. Sure what the cats
are trying to say? That's fascinating, fascinating to me. So I know
when I read your book, you'rethere's a whole section about alo rubbing and
alo grooming, which I had neverheard about before. Like, I never
(07:06):
really knew what that was. Let'stalk a little bit about that for you
know the listeners right now who arelike, what is that? Yes?
So, so ala groomy is basicallywhen one cat grooms another cat, which
which people might have an image intheir mind of two cats curled up together
grooming each other. And it's avery tactile you know, very close you
(07:28):
know experience, so it tends tobe a very bonding behavior. And then
rubbing is a similar behavior which I'vewatched a lot in the colonies that I've
studied, where they were they whenmaybe a cat's come back from being away
for a while, and they mightgreet each other and they rub their heads
together or alongside another cat, youknow, they might rub their bodies and
(07:49):
their tails together. And they theydo that to us too, as you
know, where they come up tous with their tails up and they rub
around our legs. It's exactly thesame behavior as they use on another cat.
And yeah, talk about this inthe book. It's all about the
sort of tactile experience sort of mixedin with the scent depositing experience. And
somewhere, you know, how dothose two things you know happen when they
(08:13):
when they rub either on another cator on us or on an object,
right, yeah, and it's yeah, and it's to leave to leave their
scent, correct, to leave theirscent, but also to is a theory
that actually the actual tactile experience itselfis very important for social bondings. So
cats, you know, we'll rubon each other, you know, when
(08:35):
they're doing that there, you know, it's difficult to know whose scent is
going on. Whose is it?Are they mixing sense, so we don't
really know what the actual scent processis. But but that actually perhaps just
actually touching another cat, like whenwe pet our cats, it's an enjoyable
experience. It's a similar action towhen we might stroke someone's arm, which
(08:58):
is you know, which is soothsure like comfort? Yeah, yeah,
yeah, a comfort thing, andthat creates you know a sort of chemical
reaction in the brain which makes youfeel good. Sure. So yeah,
the tactile experience is very important inboth grooming and rubbing. Wow, it's
fascinating, you know. I mean, these are just all the little things
that I'm sure most cat owners don'trealize or you know, unless they've done
(09:22):
lots of homework and read lots ofbooks. But I think it's all it's
just it's fascinating. But it's alsoso educational because it will help anyone understand
their cat better. I hope,so, yes, I hope that you
know when you're when you're petting yourcat, we all know it feels nice.
Hopefully the cat's enjoying it too,But it's sometimes nice to think about,
well, what's actually what's actually goingon here? You know, who's
(09:45):
getting what out of this interaction?Right? Right? And also when when
perhaps you know you should end thatinteraction, if perhaps the cat's had enough,
and that that that petting has stoppedfeeling nice for the cat, And
to notice the signals so that youknow that you finish that interaction before,
right before it's enough, right,And how would you know, like what
(10:07):
signal would the cat give that's tosay, okay, enough to stop touching
me, I need to go away. Yeah, So depending on this,
depending on situations. So I say, if they're just rubbing around your legs
and you're petting them, they mightthey might stop running rubbing around your legs.
They might move away, so theydon't you know, they don't actually
want to be near you anymore,which is an obvious sign. But they
(10:28):
might start to thrash their tail,you know, swish their tail a bit,
just looking slightly annoyed. Or sometimesthey sit and just groom, which
is a sort of displacement behavior wecall it when they when they just don't
really know how to show you theydon't want to do what you're doing anymore
right, or just do this instead, so that that's another signal. And
(10:50):
obviously sometimes if they're sitting on yourlap, they can just leave right,
which is sort of I mean,yeah, yeah, dogs do that too
when they've had enough walk away,which I think sometimes people don't realize that,
especially with dogs and both dogs andcats around children where you'll see a
child, because I think children arealways so fascinated by cats and dogs or
(11:13):
kittens and puppies and petting them.And then if the pet you know,
the animal moves away, usually theinstinct of a child is to then go
after it. Well, no,I want to still pet you, which
is probably something that parents need tobe aware of, like no, no,
no, leave the cat, leavethe dog alone, yes, no,
(11:33):
When to finish the interaction, Ithink it's very important for people to
learn and also starting the interaction.A study shown that the interactions between human
and cats last a lot longer ifyou let the cats start the conversation,
so you know it's okay to speakto it and encourage it to come towards
you, and then if it looksinterested, offer it a hand sniff,
(11:54):
but then give the cat lots oftime to sniff the hand and see if
it wants to interact more. Sometimesjust walk away when they've sniffed your hand,
and that's and that's all they topursue it, right, that's all
they wanted, right right. Sobut sometimes yeah, but if they if
they are keen, they'll they'll roundyou and you can pet its head.
And that's another thing to be carefulof which part of the body or pettings
(12:16):
they like to be petted around theirhead, the chin, the ears,
rather than the tail end and thebelly. So yeah, all these things
are important aspects of an interaction witha cat that perhaps we don't really think
about. But some people they're obvious, but maybe not always not to everyone,
And that's where your book is veryhelpful, I think, hopefully not
(12:37):
seriously, because I mean, yes, I mean obviously the worst is if
a dog doesn't want to be pettedanymore, it might it probably would growl
before it bites you. But Iwould say with a cat, would it
make It would probably make a noiseor just scratch you if like leave me
alone. Times they scratch, yeah, yeah, sometimes they scratch or sometimes
(12:58):
there's a there's a sort of andcalled petting and biting syndrome, which some
people might be familiar with, wherethey may be sitting on your lap and
you're petting them and you're maybe abit distracted, you know, watching the
TV or just not really looking whatyou're doing, and you don't notice the
size that the cats had enough,and often they'll just literally just bite right,
not always hard, but just maybea little warning nip and you think,
(13:20):
gosh, where did that come from? And that's just okay, I'm
done, I'm done right, Andit's really and it's usually human error because
you're not paying attention to the cat. Yes, often or sometimes some cats
are actually quite do it quite suddenly, so so the signs are quite subtle,
you know, flicking of the tailor so yeah, you have to
(13:41):
learn. You have to know yourcat. I guess a little bit sure
when it comes to those interactions.But that and that's where your book helps
too, you know, Like Ithink anyone who either has a cat,
or loves cats or wants to learnmore about cats, but especially a new
cat owner, I think like yourbook would is so perfect just because you
(14:03):
know, it's a living thing that'sliving with you that you need to love
and take care of and the bestway to do it. I mean,
it's almost like a new parent whenthey have a baby. They get baby
books to learn what to do,and you know, even though it's instinct,
but still there are things that youdon't know what to do. And
I think it's the same thing whenyou have a new cat or a new
dog, you know, a newpet in your home. Yeah. I
(14:26):
think I think just getting inside themind of a cat helps a lot to
know, you know, how theythink, they what they experience. You
know, they have a very differentexperience of the world to us. The
vision they're hearing, the scent,it's all different to us, and it's
a different language basically, sure,no, for sure. What do you
think is the most common myth aboutcats? I mean, of course we
(14:50):
know that everyone's always like, oh, you know, a dog needs you.
A cat doesn't need you. Youknow, my cat would eat me
if it was bigger. Those arejust what do you think is is one
of the like a big common mythor you know that's just not true.
I think I think one of mybiggest myths that I like to dispel whenever
(15:13):
I can, is that is thatblack cats bring bad luck or any of
the other old superstitions associated with yawith black cats that have you know,
gathered over the years. Black cats, they have such a hard time getting
adopted, that's true. Ones arethe shelters, yes, you know,
just because of the you know,age old associations with you know which evil
(15:33):
and superstition. Yes, oh mycool. Yeah, No, you're you're
so right. I think I wastrying, you know, sort of get
rid of that one. Boost Yeah, get rid of that one, because
no, it's true and she's lovely. No, it's you know, it's
so funny because I have a blackdog and it's the same thing. It's
black dogs syndrome, black cat syndrome. They're the least the last to be
adopted and usually if they're in akill shelter, the first to be euthanized.
(15:56):
And it's true with dogs, it'sbecause it's a he's the big scary
dog in a movie, is aDoberman, or it's a black dog.
And cats, Oh, the blackcat crossed my path, you know,
like, Okay, who cares,it's a black hat. So yeah,
so I love that you just saidthat. Let's dispel that. There's you
know, black cat's syndrome. It'snot true. It's just as loving and
(16:19):
beautiful a cat as any cat.Yes, I love them sometimes beautiful,
yeah, yeah, oh yeah,it's fairly true. They're like velvety to
me. Black cats and black dogsare just so beautiful, you know.
And I think also sometimes especially withrescues, and I know they were different.
And I've had other guests on talkingabout like how to take better pictures
(16:40):
and stuff, and a lot oftimes it's people don't know how to take
a photo of a black dog ora black hat because you know, they
don't they don't have it on acolorful blanket, or they don't have a
bright bow on it so it standsout. And this way you can take
a better picture and then I'll getadopted. So it's a whole process that
you're helping to. But they saidthat one of the reasons people, one
(17:04):
of the modern reasons people don't adoptblack cats, is because it's hard to
take a photo take a selfie withyour black hat, which I think is
so sad. It is sad,it is. Yeah, And there are
so many ways that you can takea beautiful photo regardless of what the color
of the cat is exactly or thedog. No, it's very very very
true. So well, I thankyou. This is like I really I
(17:26):
just thought your book was so delightful. And you know, I know more
about dogs, I have to admit, than cats. But for all of
my listeners who are who have saidto me, you need to do more
cat things, you just gave memore cred So I thank you for that
because it's also this book. Well, it's true because your book was delightful,
(17:47):
but it was very educational to meas well. Just I learned things
that I didn't know. So I'msure for someone who knows much about cats,
they'll be delight with the book,and for someone like me who didn't
know as much, you'll learn.And you know, knowledge is power.
We all need to know and learnas much as we can. So thank
(18:08):
you so much for talking about thehidden language of cats, how they have
us at me. Ow. Wherecan my listeners get the book because I
know it came out in October andit's getting all normal book retailers, you
know, books, local bookshops online, yeah, all the normal outlets.
But yes, I should be ableto find it most places, I think,
(18:32):
yeah, and it's perfect. Somuch please, thank you, and
just in time for the holidays.This makes a great holiday gift. The
hidden language, right, yes,so it's perfect. Thank you so,
doctor Sarah Brown, thank you somuch for your time and for the book.
Thank you so much for having me. Absolutely thanks, thank you.
It's Maria's MutS and Stuff. Whata great idea on iHeartRadio. Welcome to
Maria's MutS and Stuff and with me. I'm so very very thrilled. Today
is doctor Sarah Brown, who isthe author of the Hidden Language of Cats,
(00:23):
How They Have Us at Meow,so clever title, such a delightful
book. I'm so happy to chatwith you about I love this book.
By the way, Thank you somuch, Thank you so much for inviting
me. Absolutely so, how didthis all begin? What made you decide?
I would assume you love cats.I know you love cats, and
(00:44):
is that why you decided to writethis book? Yeah? So I do
love cats, and I've worked withthem for many, many years, over
thirty years. And the reason Idecided to write this book was that over
those years, I've so often heardcats describe as cool or aloof or uncommunicative,
especially when people are comparing them todogs. Sure, and so I
(01:07):
always thought that was a little bitharsh, because cats actually have quite a
lot to say for themselves. Theyjust have a different, more subtle style
of communication people and to dogs.And so we just have to look a
bit closer and work a bit harderto understand what they're trying to say.
So I decided to gather up allwe know about the different ways in which
they communicate, all the amazing scienceout there that's been done, and put
(01:32):
it all together in a book sothat to encourage people to take a closer
look at their cats in their livesand to think about what the cats are
seeing and smelling and hearing, andhow best to interact with them. So
that's kind of the synopsis of thebook. Yes, yeah, and that
makes sense because I'm sure for someonewho has a cat, if you understand
(01:52):
the body language and all the differentthings, because you know, animals do
give us clues just because we don'tspeak they don't speak English if you pay
attention, right, So I mean, actually, this is like, it's
an excellent It's like a guide foranyone who wants to understand their cat or
a cat better. So you justmentioned how they're very different than dogs,
(02:14):
and I know you know some youjust know whether a dog is wagging its
tail or if a dog is barkingor growling. Are there any similarities that
a cat will do that a dogwill do? If that makes sense?
So I suppose there are some similarities. So both species are very very conscious
(02:36):
of scent, that's sort of theygo to methods of communication, so they're
both very tuned into that. ButI think there's probably a lot of differences,
like you say already, so like, for example, you know,
when a cat wags its tail,it's not a good sign, not a
happy sign, whereas when a dogwags its tail, sure, the complete
opposite. It's usually pleased to seeyou. And so but what's interesting,
(03:00):
stingers is the study done that thecats and dogs living together quite often learn
that that that means the opposite signalin the opposite species. So you know,
a dog will learn that a catwaiting its tail is not in and
also things like sniffing when when adog sniffs another dog, they like to
sniff the rear edg whereas cats quiteoften will approach each other's nose to nose
(03:23):
a thing called touch noses and sniffeach other's nose. And so a dog
living with a cat has to alsolearn to, you know, do the
more polite cat approach. Interesting,yeah, and I didn't realize that that's
right, and so they I guessknow, but I guess for just like
a dog will know it's human habits, cats will do the same thing.
(03:46):
So I guess that that enables thecat to learn what the dog is signaling,
and the dog to learn what thecat is signaling. It's mind bar
exactly right. Yeah, that areso clever. They watch us and they
learn and they you know, theylearn, you know, how to to
get our attention. M yeah,yeah, and they're very smart about it,
right, there's yes, they're verysmart. No, it's true.
(04:09):
So was there anything I mean,because I know, being around cats and
loving cats like you do doing theresearch for the book, was there anything
that that even surprised you that youdidn't realize about a cat or that or
you know everything, many things.I mean, However, a long you've
(04:30):
worked with cats, you're always learningnew something, especially with all the scientific
studies coming out all the time.So reading some of them, you know,
I learned new things that you know, made me go wow. So
for example, you know, weknow that meows are mainly directed towards humans
rather than rather than other cats bycats. And I also knew that cats
(04:51):
meows were more higher pitched domestic catsand more higher pitched than their ancestral species,
the African wildcat. But what itdidn't realize was this pitch, this
higher pitch, is almost exactly thesame as the pitch of a human baby's
cry, which, as we allknow, is incredibly hard to ignore.
So I feel like it's amazing somehowthey've worked out that the actual pitch of
(05:15):
the meow is best, you know, at that level, that's the best
way to get our attention. Interesting, you know, try and pretend you're
a baby, right, and thatwill get the humans attention. It will
every time, right. Wow.And Also the other interesting thing I've found,
which which I was sort of awareof, and I think most people
(05:35):
are aware of, is how wepitch our voices back to the cats.
We talk in this high pitched,you know, baby talk voice and which
we call mother ease. And thisstudy study done quite recently, showed that
when listening to their owner's, catscan tell the difference between this speech directed
(05:56):
at them. This mother is tillbetween that speech and the speech directed to
other humans. So speaking to anotherhuman, they know that they're not talking
to them, but when we suddenlyput on our baby voice, they pay
attention. Well that, you know, that's really fascinating to me, because
you know, you said it earlierhow people always think that cats are so
cool and aloof but they probably it'sprobably because they're smarter than dogs. And
(06:21):
I think because they realize, oh, the humans not talking to me,
so I don't have to pay attentionwhere a dog always I think, you
know, because you use like thehigh pitched baby voice around dogs too.
But I think dogs just always thinkthat you're paying attention to them. I
think they Yeah, we have adifferent relationship a lot of the time with
(06:44):
our dogs, which is partly,like I said, like why I wrote
the book because I want people tonotice their cats. Sure what the cats
are trying to say? That's fascinating, fascinating to me. So I know
when I read your book, you'rethere's a whole section about alo rubbing and
alo grooming, which I had neverheard about before. Like, I never
(07:06):
really knew what that was. Let'stalk a little bit about that for you
know the listeners right now who arelike, what is that? Yes?
So, so ala groomy is basicallywhen one cat grooms another cat, which
which people might have an image intheir mind of two cats curled up together
grooming each other. And it's avery tactile you know, very close you
(07:28):
know experience, so it tends tobe a very bonding behavior. And then
rubbing is a similar behavior which I'vewatched a lot in the colonies that I've
studied, where they were they whenmaybe a cat's come back from being away
for a while, and they mightgreet each other and they rub their heads
together or alongside another cat, youknow, they might rub their bodies and
(07:49):
their tails together. And they theydo that to us too, as you
know, where they come up tous with their tails up and they rub
around our legs. It's exactly thesame behavior as they use on another cat.
And yeah, talk about this inthe book. It's all about the
sort of tactile experience sort of mixedin with the scent depositing experience. And
somewhere, you know, how dothose two things you know happen when they
(08:13):
when they rub either on another cator on us or on an object,
right, yeah, and it's yeah, and it's to leave to leave their
scent, correct, to leave theirscent, but also to is a theory
that actually the actual tactile experience itselfis very important for social bondings. So
cats, you know, we'll rubon each other, you know, when
(08:35):
they're doing that there, you know, it's difficult to know whose scent is
going on. Whose is it?Are they mixing sense, so we don't
really know what the actual scent processis. But but that actually perhaps just
actually touching another cat, like whenwe pet our cats, it's an enjoyable
experience. It's a similar action towhen we might stroke someone's arm, which
(08:58):
is you know, which is soothsure like comfort? Yeah, yeah,
yeah, a comfort thing, andthat creates you know a sort of chemical
reaction in the brain which makes youfeel good. Sure. So yeah,
the tactile experience is very important inboth grooming and rubbing. Wow, it's
fascinating, you know. I mean, these are just all the little things
that I'm sure most cat owners don'trealize or you know, unless they've done
(09:22):
lots of homework and read lots ofbooks. But I think it's all it's
just it's fascinating. But it's alsoso educational because it will help anyone understand
their cat better. I hope,so, yes, I hope that you
know when you're when you're petting yourcat, we all know it feels nice.
Hopefully the cat's enjoying it too,But it's sometimes nice to think about,
well, what's actually what's actually goingon here? You know, who's
(09:45):
getting what out of this interaction?Right? Right? And also when when
perhaps you know you should end thatinteraction, if perhaps the cat's had enough,
and that that that petting has stoppedfeeling nice for the cat, And
to notice the signals so that youknow that you finish that interaction before,
right before it's enough, right,And how would you know, like what
(10:07):
signal would the cat give that's tosay, okay, enough to stop touching
me, I need to go away. Yeah, So depending on this,
depending on situations. So I say, if they're just rubbing around your legs
and you're petting them, they mightthey might stop running rubbing around your legs.
They might move away, so theydon't you know, they don't actually
want to be near you anymore,which is an obvious sign. But they
(10:28):
might start to thrash their tail,you know, swish their tail a bit,
just looking slightly annoyed. Or sometimesthey sit and just groom, which
is a sort of displacement behavior wecall it when they when they just don't
really know how to show you theydon't want to do what you're doing anymore
right, or just do this instead, so that that's another signal. And
(10:50):
obviously sometimes if they're sitting on yourlap, they can just leave right,
which is sort of I mean,yeah, yeah, dogs do that too
when they've had enough walk away,which I think sometimes people don't realize that,
especially with dogs and both dogs andcats around children where you'll see a
child, because I think children arealways so fascinated by cats and dogs or
(11:13):
kittens and puppies and petting them.And then if the pet you know,
the animal moves away, usually theinstinct of a child is to then go
after it. Well, no,I want to still pet you, which
is probably something that parents need tobe aware of, like no, no,
no, leave the cat, leavethe dog alone, yes, no,
(11:33):
When to finish the interaction, Ithink it's very important for people to
learn and also starting the interaction.A study shown that the interactions between human
and cats last a lot longer ifyou let the cats start the conversation,
so you know it's okay to speakto it and encourage it to come towards
you, and then if it looksinterested, offer it a hand sniff,
(11:54):
but then give the cat lots oftime to sniff the hand and see if
it wants to interact more. Sometimesjust walk away when they've sniffed your hand,
and that's and that's all they topursue it, right, that's all
they wanted, right right. Sobut sometimes yeah, but if they if
they are keen, they'll they'll roundyou and you can pet its head.
And that's another thing to be carefulof which part of the body or pettings
(12:16):
they like to be petted around theirhead, the chin, the ears,
rather than the tail end and thebelly. So yeah, all these things
are important aspects of an interaction witha cat that perhaps we don't really think
about. But some people they're obvious, but maybe not always not to everyone,
And that's where your book is veryhelpful, I think, hopefully not
(12:37):
seriously, because I mean, yes, I mean obviously the worst is if
a dog doesn't want to be pettedanymore, it might it probably would growl
before it bites you. But Iwould say with a cat, would it
make It would probably make a noiseor just scratch you if like leave me
alone. Times they scratch, yeah, yeah, sometimes they scratch or sometimes
(12:58):
there's a there's a sort of andcalled petting and biting syndrome, which some
people might be familiar with, wherethey may be sitting on your lap and
you're petting them and you're maybe abit distracted, you know, watching the
TV or just not really looking whatyou're doing, and you don't notice the
size that the cats had enough,and often they'll just literally just bite right,
not always hard, but just maybea little warning nip and you think,
(13:20):
gosh, where did that come from? And that's just okay, I'm
done, I'm done right, Andit's really and it's usually human error because
you're not paying attention to the cat. Yes, often or sometimes some cats
are actually quite do it quite suddenly, so so the signs are quite subtle,
you know, flicking of the tailor so yeah, you have to
(13:41):
learn. You have to know yourcat. I guess a little bit sure
when it comes to those interactions.But that and that's where your book helps
too, you know, Like Ithink anyone who either has a cat,
or loves cats or wants to learnmore about cats, but especially a new
cat owner, I think like yourbook would is so perfect just because you
(14:03):
know, it's a living thing that'sliving with you that you need to love
and take care of and the bestway to do it. I mean,
it's almost like a new parent whenthey have a baby. They get baby
books to learn what to do,and you know, even though it's instinct,
but still there are things that youdon't know what to do. And
I think it's the same thing whenyou have a new cat or a new
dog, you know, a newpet in your home. Yeah. I
(14:26):
think I think just getting inside themind of a cat helps a lot to
know, you know, how theythink, they what they experience. You
know, they have a very differentexperience of the world to us. The
vision they're hearing, the scent,it's all different to us, and it's
a different language basically, sure,no, for sure. What do you
think is the most common myth aboutcats? I mean, of course we
(14:50):
know that everyone's always like, oh, you know, a dog needs you.
A cat doesn't need you. Youknow, my cat would eat me
if it was bigger. Those arejust what do you think is is one
of the like a big common mythor you know that's just not true.
I think I think one of mybiggest myths that I like to dispel whenever
(15:13):
I can, is that is thatblack cats bring bad luck or any of
the other old superstitions associated with yawith black cats that have you know,
gathered over the years. Black cats, they have such a hard time getting
adopted, that's true. Ones arethe shelters, yes, you know,
just because of the you know,age old associations with you know which evil
(15:33):
and superstition. Yes, oh mycool. Yeah, No, you're you're
so right. I think I wastrying, you know, sort of get
rid of that one. Boost Yeah, get rid of that one, because
no, it's true and she's lovely. No, it's you know, it's
so funny because I have a blackdog and it's the same thing. It's
black dogs syndrome, black cat syndrome. They're the least the last to be
adopted and usually if they're in akill shelter, the first to be euthanized.
(15:56):
And it's true with dogs, it'sbecause it's a he's the big scary
dog in a movie, is aDoberman, or it's a black dog.
And cats, Oh, the blackcat crossed my path, you know,
like, Okay, who cares,it's a black hat. So yeah,
so I love that you just saidthat. Let's dispel that. There's you
know, black cat's syndrome. It'snot true. It's just as loving and
(16:19):
beautiful a cat as any cat.Yes, I love them sometimes beautiful,
yeah, yeah, oh yeah,it's fairly true. They're like velvety to
me. Black cats and black dogsare just so beautiful, you know.
And I think also sometimes especially withrescues, and I know they were different.
And I've had other guests on talkingabout like how to take better pictures
(16:40):
and stuff, and a lot oftimes it's people don't know how to take
a photo of a black dog ora black hat because you know, they
don't they don't have it on acolorful blanket, or they don't have a
bright bow on it so it standsout. And this way you can take
a better picture and then I'll getadopted. So it's a whole process that
you're helping to. But they saidthat one of the reasons people, one
(17:04):
of the modern reasons people don't adoptblack cats, is because it's hard to
take a photo take a selfie withyour black hat, which I think is
so sad. It is sad,it is. Yeah, And there are
so many ways that you can takea beautiful photo regardless of what the color
of the cat is exactly or thedog. No, it's very very very
true. So well, I thankyou. This is like I really I
(17:26):
just thought your book was so delightful. And you know, I know more
about dogs, I have to admit, than cats. But for all of
my listeners who are who have saidto me, you need to do more
cat things, you just gave memore cred So I thank you for that
because it's also this book. Well, it's true because your book was delightful,
(17:47):
but it was very educational to meas well. Just I learned things
that I didn't know. So I'msure for someone who knows much about cats,
they'll be delight with the book,and for someone like me who didn't
know as much, you'll learn.And you know, knowledge is power.
We all need to know and learnas much as we can. So thank
(18:08):
you so much for talking about thehidden language of cats, how they have
us at me. Ow. Wherecan my listeners get the book because I
know it came out in October andit's getting all normal book retailers, you
know, books, local bookshops online, yeah, all the normal outlets.
But yes, I should be ableto find it most places, I think,
(18:32):
yeah, and it's perfect. Somuch please, thank you, and
just in time for the holidays.This makes a great holiday gift. The
hidden language, right, yes,so it's perfect. Thank you so,
doctor Sarah Brown, thank you somuch for your time and for the book.
Thank you so much for having me. Absolutely thanks, thank you.
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