August 10, 2025 • 15 mins
Original Air Date: August 10, 2025
Eileen Kragie is on a mission to end light pollution, something most of us never considered to be an issue but endangers wildlife eco-systems.
Eileen Kragie is on a mission to end light pollution, something most of us never considered to be an issue but endangers wildlife eco-systems.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Sunstein Sessions on iHeartRadio, Conversations about issues that matter.
Here's your host, three time Gracie Award winner, Shelley Sunstein.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I want to introduce you to Eileen Craigie of Dark
Sky Friends. I have to tell you, Eileen before you
explain what Dark Sky Friends is all about. For the
first time, today, on my way into work, I saw
a shooting star.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
And I.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Keep track of when we're supposed to be seeing shooting stars,
and I never see them. But overnight when I wasn't
supposed to see one, and I mean it had a
green tail. It was just fantastic and it was so
appropriate that I'm going to be speaking with you this
(00:55):
morning about Dark Sky Friends, which is what I lean.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Well, it's such a pleasure to be meeting you and
the on your show. Dark Sky Friends is an organization
that I started about three years.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
Ago, maybe a little bit further back.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
It's to advocate for tight outdoor lighting ordinances and legislation.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
So if you want a little bit more.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Background, h yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
I had.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
I became an advocate for Dark Sky International, and we
can talk about that a little bit more later. And
then started my own organization to really focus on the
legislation and the ordinances, and then we launched a Northern
Virginia chapter of Dark Sky International here so I can
(01:45):
talk a little bit more about them. But I really
work support all the work they do, but really focus
in on the local jurisdictions to improve or to enact
outdoor lighting ordinances in legislation.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Basically, you're talking about light pollution, which is a term
I don't think most people have heard of, right right.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
It's a very underrecognized, if not unrecognized type of pollution,
and it should, you know, personally, it should be elevated
to the level of air and air pollution because it's
that deadly and that dangerous. It's an intrusive out.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
You know, outdoor lighting.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
You what do you mean it's intrusive outdoor lighting. I
mean we're you know, I'm broadcasting from New York City,
where you know, we have skyscrapers, we have i mean
Times Square, it's always lit up.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
It's the easiest way to think about as light pollution
is when you look up and you can't see any stars.
But well, that's New York City, all right, exactly, and
it's a big city always and what's happened that's being
growing and spreading out into the suburbs.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
And so you have as part of light pollution.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
You have sky glow, which is when it's the obscuring
the view of the skies. You have light tress path,
which is a huge problem. And that's when you have
in truce of light that comes into your home. So
you can think of a street light, a business light,
your neighbor's light that comes into your bedroom or your
home or into your property. And then we have things
(03:29):
like the clutter, which is just a lot a bunch
of lights together and hopefully let's I'm going to explain
to the audience, they can't see it. If you can
think about the light trespath that not only affects our health,
but it also impacts all of our shared environments.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
So of course, wait a minute, so how does it
affect our health? Because this is something that I wouldn't
think of. It's huddainly a light pollution. I mean, this
is like the norm is the norm in a big city.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
It affects all of our circadian rhythms. So it's everything
from plants to insects, but our own own internal clock.
So light pollution has been linked to cancers, breast and
prostate obesity, diabetes, HYE, blood pressure, art disorders, anxiety depression
(04:24):
of course, sleep disorders, and then there's finding links to alzheime.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
So the body of research is just.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Growing and growing about how it affects our human health.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
What are you trying to do exactly with you mentioned legislation,
but I haven't even heard of any legislation concerning light pollution.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Well, it's kind of It's interesting because the auto bond
has been successful in getting some legislation in New York
City to turn off the lights for the spring and
the fall bird.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
Migration that I've heard of.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Yeah, so they turning the lights down or turning off
some of them. And with the tribute light to nine
to eleven.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
What happens with that is the birds, the grating birds.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Navigate by the stars in the moon, and so they're
drawn off course. And this is the problem with the
light pollution in the cities. They're drawn off course and
then they either fly around the light and get exhausted
and fall down and die, or they hit the buildings.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
And so the autumbne in.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Different groups, the bird alliances have been very active and
going out to collect the dead birds and count them
after some of these situations. So going back to the
tribute light for nine to eleven, they were finding that
it's in the fall, that's in the middle of the
bird migration, so these birds would get caught in the
(05:59):
light that get attracted to it, and they would justly
around and around and around and.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
Just get exhausted.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
So they were the autubon was successful and maybe some
other organizations working with it there to have them turn
it off. So just say the lights on for twenty minutes,
they see the birds collecting, they'll shut it off for.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
Maybe five minutes.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
I'm going to tell you, I don't know exactly what
the frequency.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
You know, I didn't even realize that because I'm very
familiar with that with the Towers of Light, you know,
to pay tribute to nine to eleven, and it's hugely
important to me and so many in the area. But
I had no idea that they reached this agreement where
it's turned off for a little bit of time so
that the birds can find their way again. I didn't
(06:46):
even know this was going on.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Yeah, and they've got I mean, this is something that
is great to have these examples because then I can
use them. You know, here in the Washington, DC area.
In Chicago, there was a terrible incident in McCormick Place
wherever a thousand birds were killed in one night hitting
the building. It was a confluence of like the weather,
(07:10):
the migration. They didn't close their shades and so that
was just a horrendous incident. And I'm trying to think
there was one other one that was pretty big. But
they since have taken measures to make sure that it
doesn't happen again, and they're easy, you know, easy things
to do.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Like I'm speaking with Eileen Craigie and she is with
Dark Sky Friends, which is based in DC. But you
are also linked to International Dark Sky So what is that.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Well, that used to be the International Dark Sky Association,
but they now it's Dark Sky International. It's a group
that was started in nineteen eighty eight by two astronomers,
one professional and on amateur astronomer because they recognize the
problem of light pollution was coming.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
The astronomers where the Canaries and the.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Coal mine in the nineteen seventies who saw this coming
and so there was a lot of action taken out
west where these big observatories are and they have just
been working since nineteen eighty eight to try to raise
awareness and educate people about light pollution. Dark Sky International
(08:28):
designates dark Sky places. So you have dark sky parks,
you have dark sky sanctuaries, dark sky reserves, have dark
Sky communities, and there's also a category for places that
don't quite meet dark sky park status because they're located
in more light polluted places. So what's exciting is so
(08:52):
many people across a globe they want to protect and
preserve and conserve these areas. For example, I think they
have the largest.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
Largest dark sky reserve.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
In the world because they kept adding to my Big
Ben Park. Virginia, where I live, because I'm actually about
ten miles outside of Washington, Virginia has the largest number
of dark sky parks of any state east of the Mississippi,
and George Mason University has one of the largest on
campus observatories on the East coast. Out on Long Island,
(09:29):
there's all kinds of astronomy societies and there's people all
over doing this work. So there's an advocate out on
Long Island. I think her name is Susan Harder. If
I'm remembering that correctly. Well, she comes from Brooklyn and
she moved out to Long Island, and because of a
light trespass problem with her neighbor, she got involved with
this and in fact created a cool.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Little What is light trespassing?
Speaker 3 (09:54):
A light tress pass is when you have light that
just shines into your house or into your yard. So
if you can think about if you know, whether it's
a street light that's outside your bedroom window, or maybe
your neighbor has a spotlight and they flip that on.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
It can be a.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Business that's next to you, or I know that I
was talking with somebody who lives in an apartment and
they were saying the business across the way or the
garage that the lights were unshielded and they just shine
straight out and pardon me, into their home.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
So that's light trespass.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
And what are you supposed to do about that?
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Well, ideally you'll have the person who's causing it use
put on shielded lights or maybe turn them off. I'm
really adamant about the victim of the trespass should not
have to be the one that's tasked with taking care
of it. So frequently people say we'll get blackout curtains,
(10:59):
or closure shaped, or they'll say move.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
Well, okay, that's.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Okay for humans, but what about the birds and the
fireflies and the bats and the nocturnal creatures. They have
absolutely no choice in this Dark Sky International created in
conjunction with the Illuminating Engineering Society. They've developed the five
Principles of Responsible Outdoor Lighting. So these are just five
(11:26):
really simple principles of how to correct this issue.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
And you want me to go through.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
All five of them yet, I'm sure you okay.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
The first one is what's the purpose of the light?
Is it useful? Why is it there? I love that.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
I started listening to lighting designers and they talk about
let's start with dark and then you add light to
enhance it or to create a mood, and I love that.
So the first thing is do you need the light?
And first we all need some light to traverse our
spaces safely. Then the second thing is, which is really important,
(12:06):
is to make it targeted, so shielded and if you
can think about like put a lampshade on it, it's
the easiest way to kind of think about it. So
instead of having an unshielded bulb, just put something on
it that's going to direct the light down towards the
ground instead of shooting it up into the sky or
into your neighbor's bedroom, you know, or into the the
(12:29):
owl or the little bird's nest. The third one is
low level, So this is your talk. We're talking about
the intensity of the light. So you can think about
really bright spot lights versus you know, I.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
Like more muted muted lighting.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
So the brightness of it when you get into this
is a slightly technical term, but it's lumens. So when
you go to look at lighting and when you look
to for lighting bulbs, lumens is very important. So the brightness,
the brighter, that bigger the loom and the brighter it is.
The next thing is controlled, so you want to add dimmers, timers,
(13:07):
motion activators. So if you're not out there and you
don't need it, whise it on when you come home
and you're walking in. It's great to have the light
come on when you need it or if a passer
by comes by. It's wonderful, but you ask yourself, do
you have to have it on one hundred percent of
the time. And the last thing is the color of
the bulb. So if you can think about the color
(13:28):
of fire, or candles, which is kind of a warm
color amber that's just much more friendly to the environment,
to insects, to the turtles. There's a whole thing about
baby hatching turtles, and boy, some of the tightest ordinances
you'll find here on these coastal areas, so they use
(13:49):
red lighting and amber lighting. What happens with that baby
hatch and turtles is they hatch and they're supposed to
be usin the moon light to follow out to the ocean,
but instead they get attracted to the community or the
town behind them, and then whether they're picked off by
(14:10):
predators or maybe they're crossing the roads and they get
run over, but it's often not a very good outcome
for them.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
We're running out of time. So how will people Yeah,
it goes first, how do people find out more so
they can access the dark sky areas and more on
what they can do about light pollution. Where do they go?
Speaker 4 (14:35):
I lean online?
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Well, you can check out dark Sky Friends. Don't forget
the s on the end of that dot org and
they go to darksky dot org.
Speaker 4 (14:44):
You can look up your local chapter.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
I'm happy to talk to anybody about it, but there's
chapters all over the Globe.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
There's one in New York, so please check out dark.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Sky New York and there's some great advocates doing things there.
There's also a dark Sky Park in Cherry Springs, New Jersey,
so maybe that's close to some of your listeners. And
Terry Springs for Cherry Hill and it's Terry Springs.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
I've never even heard of it. Okay, we are out
of time. I want to thank you so much, Eileen Craigie,
dark Skyfriends dot org.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
You've been listening to Sunstein sessions on iHeartRadio, a production
of New York's classic rock Q one O four point three.
Welcome to Sunstein Sessions on iHeartRadio, Conversations about issues that matter.
Here's your host, three time Gracie Award winner, Shelley Sunstein.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I want to introduce you to Eileen Craigie of Dark
Sky Friends. I have to tell you, Eileen before you
explain what Dark Sky Friends is all about. For the
first time, today, on my way into work, I saw
a shooting star.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
And I.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Keep track of when we're supposed to be seeing shooting stars,
and I never see them. But overnight when I wasn't
supposed to see one, and I mean it had a
green tail. It was just fantastic and it was so
appropriate that I'm going to be speaking with you this
(00:55):
morning about Dark Sky Friends, which is what I lean.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Well, it's such a pleasure to be meeting you and
the on your show. Dark Sky Friends is an organization
that I started about three years.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
Ago, maybe a little bit further back.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
It's to advocate for tight outdoor lighting ordinances and legislation.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
So if you want a little bit more.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Background, h yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
I had.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
I became an advocate for Dark Sky International, and we
can talk about that a little bit more later. And
then started my own organization to really focus on the
legislation and the ordinances, and then we launched a Northern
Virginia chapter of Dark Sky International here so I can
(01:45):
talk a little bit more about them. But I really
work support all the work they do, but really focus
in on the local jurisdictions to improve or to enact
outdoor lighting ordinances in legislation.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Basically, you're talking about light pollution, which is a term
I don't think most people have heard of, right right.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
It's a very underrecognized, if not unrecognized type of pollution,
and it should, you know, personally, it should be elevated
to the level of air and air pollution because it's
that deadly and that dangerous. It's an intrusive out.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
You know, outdoor lighting.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
You what do you mean it's intrusive outdoor lighting. I
mean we're you know, I'm broadcasting from New York City,
where you know, we have skyscrapers, we have i mean
Times Square, it's always lit up.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
It's the easiest way to think about as light pollution
is when you look up and you can't see any stars.
But well, that's New York City, all right, exactly, and
it's a big city always and what's happened that's being
growing and spreading out into the suburbs.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
And so you have as part of light pollution.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
You have sky glow, which is when it's the obscuring
the view of the skies. You have light tress path,
which is a huge problem. And that's when you have
in truce of light that comes into your home. So
you can think of a street light, a business light,
your neighbor's light that comes into your bedroom or your
home or into your property. And then we have things
(03:29):
like the clutter, which is just a lot a bunch
of lights together and hopefully let's I'm going to explain
to the audience, they can't see it. If you can
think about the light trespath that not only affects our health,
but it also impacts all of our shared environments.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
So of course, wait a minute, so how does it
affect our health? Because this is something that I wouldn't
think of. It's huddainly a light pollution. I mean, this
is like the norm is the norm in a big city.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
It affects all of our circadian rhythms. So it's everything
from plants to insects, but our own own internal clock.
So light pollution has been linked to cancers, breast and
prostate obesity, diabetes, HYE, blood pressure, art disorders, anxiety depression
(04:24):
of course, sleep disorders, and then there's finding links to alzheime.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
So the body of research is just.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Growing and growing about how it affects our human health.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
What are you trying to do exactly with you mentioned legislation,
but I haven't even heard of any legislation concerning light pollution.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Well, it's kind of It's interesting because the auto bond
has been successful in getting some legislation in New York
City to turn off the lights for the spring and
the fall bird.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
Migration that I've heard of.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Yeah, so they turning the lights down or turning off
some of them. And with the tribute light to nine
to eleven.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
What happens with that is the birds, the grating birds.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Navigate by the stars in the moon, and so they're
drawn off course. And this is the problem with the
light pollution in the cities. They're drawn off course and
then they either fly around the light and get exhausted
and fall down and die, or they hit the buildings.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
And so the autumbne in.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Different groups, the bird alliances have been very active and
going out to collect the dead birds and count them
after some of these situations. So going back to the
tribute light for nine to eleven, they were finding that
it's in the fall, that's in the middle of the
bird migration, so these birds would get caught in the
(05:59):
light that get attracted to it, and they would justly
around and around and around and.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
Just get exhausted.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
So they were the autubon was successful and maybe some
other organizations working with it there to have them turn
it off. So just say the lights on for twenty minutes,
they see the birds collecting, they'll shut it off for.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
Maybe five minutes.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
I'm going to tell you, I don't know exactly what
the frequency.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
You know, I didn't even realize that because I'm very
familiar with that with the Towers of Light, you know,
to pay tribute to nine to eleven, and it's hugely
important to me and so many in the area. But
I had no idea that they reached this agreement where
it's turned off for a little bit of time so
that the birds can find their way again. I didn't
(06:46):
even know this was going on.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Yeah, and they've got I mean, this is something that
is great to have these examples because then I can
use them. You know, here in the Washington, DC area.
In Chicago, there was a terrible incident in McCormick Place
wherever a thousand birds were killed in one night hitting
the building. It was a confluence of like the weather,
(07:10):
the migration. They didn't close their shades and so that
was just a horrendous incident. And I'm trying to think
there was one other one that was pretty big. But
they since have taken measures to make sure that it
doesn't happen again, and they're easy, you know, easy things
to do.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Like I'm speaking with Eileen Craigie and she is with
Dark Sky Friends, which is based in DC. But you
are also linked to International Dark Sky So what is that.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Well, that used to be the International Dark Sky Association,
but they now it's Dark Sky International. It's a group
that was started in nineteen eighty eight by two astronomers,
one professional and on amateur astronomer because they recognize the
problem of light pollution was coming.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
The astronomers where the Canaries and the.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Coal mine in the nineteen seventies who saw this coming
and so there was a lot of action taken out
west where these big observatories are and they have just
been working since nineteen eighty eight to try to raise
awareness and educate people about light pollution. Dark Sky International
(08:28):
designates dark Sky places. So you have dark sky parks,
you have dark sky sanctuaries, dark sky reserves, have dark
Sky communities, and there's also a category for places that
don't quite meet dark sky park status because they're located
in more light polluted places. So what's exciting is so
(08:52):
many people across a globe they want to protect and
preserve and conserve these areas. For example, I think they
have the largest.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
Largest dark sky reserve.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
In the world because they kept adding to my Big
Ben Park. Virginia, where I live, because I'm actually about
ten miles outside of Washington, Virginia has the largest number
of dark sky parks of any state east of the Mississippi,
and George Mason University has one of the largest on
campus observatories on the East coast. Out on Long Island,
(09:29):
there's all kinds of astronomy societies and there's people all
over doing this work. So there's an advocate out on
Long Island. I think her name is Susan Harder. If
I'm remembering that correctly. Well, she comes from Brooklyn and
she moved out to Long Island, and because of a
light trespass problem with her neighbor, she got involved with
this and in fact created a cool.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Little What is light trespassing?
Speaker 3 (09:54):
A light tress pass is when you have light that
just shines into your house or into your yard. So
if you can think about if you know, whether it's
a street light that's outside your bedroom window, or maybe
your neighbor has a spotlight and they flip that on.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
It can be a.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Business that's next to you, or I know that I
was talking with somebody who lives in an apartment and
they were saying the business across the way or the
garage that the lights were unshielded and they just shine
straight out and pardon me, into their home.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
So that's light trespass.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
And what are you supposed to do about that?
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Well, ideally you'll have the person who's causing it use
put on shielded lights or maybe turn them off. I'm
really adamant about the victim of the trespass should not
have to be the one that's tasked with taking care
of it. So frequently people say we'll get blackout curtains,
(10:59):
or closure shaped, or they'll say move.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
Well, okay, that's.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Okay for humans, but what about the birds and the
fireflies and the bats and the nocturnal creatures. They have
absolutely no choice in this Dark Sky International created in
conjunction with the Illuminating Engineering Society. They've developed the five
Principles of Responsible Outdoor Lighting. So these are just five
(11:26):
really simple principles of how to correct this issue.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
And you want me to go through.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
All five of them yet, I'm sure you okay.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
The first one is what's the purpose of the light?
Is it useful? Why is it there? I love that.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
I started listening to lighting designers and they talk about
let's start with dark and then you add light to
enhance it or to create a mood, and I love that.
So the first thing is do you need the light?
And first we all need some light to traverse our
spaces safely. Then the second thing is, which is really important,
(12:06):
is to make it targeted, so shielded and if you
can think about like put a lampshade on it, it's
the easiest way to kind of think about it. So
instead of having an unshielded bulb, just put something on
it that's going to direct the light down towards the
ground instead of shooting it up into the sky or
into your neighbor's bedroom, you know, or into the the
(12:29):
owl or the little bird's nest. The third one is
low level, So this is your talk. We're talking about
the intensity of the light. So you can think about
really bright spot lights versus you know, I.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
Like more muted muted lighting.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
So the brightness of it when you get into this
is a slightly technical term, but it's lumens. So when
you go to look at lighting and when you look
to for lighting bulbs, lumens is very important. So the brightness,
the brighter, that bigger the loom and the brighter it is.
The next thing is controlled, so you want to add dimmers, timers,
(13:07):
motion activators. So if you're not out there and you
don't need it, whise it on when you come home
and you're walking in. It's great to have the light
come on when you need it or if a passer
by comes by. It's wonderful, but you ask yourself, do
you have to have it on one hundred percent of
the time. And the last thing is the color of
the bulb. So if you can think about the color
(13:28):
of fire, or candles, which is kind of a warm
color amber that's just much more friendly to the environment,
to insects, to the turtles. There's a whole thing about
baby hatching turtles, and boy, some of the tightest ordinances
you'll find here on these coastal areas, so they use
(13:49):
red lighting and amber lighting. What happens with that baby
hatch and turtles is they hatch and they're supposed to
be usin the moon light to follow out to the ocean,
but instead they get attracted to the community or the
town behind them, and then whether they're picked off by
(14:10):
predators or maybe they're crossing the roads and they get
run over, but it's often not a very good outcome
for them.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
We're running out of time. So how will people Yeah,
it goes first, how do people find out more so
they can access the dark sky areas and more on
what they can do about light pollution. Where do they go?
Speaker 4 (14:35):
I lean online?
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Well, you can check out dark Sky Friends. Don't forget
the s on the end of that dot org and
they go to darksky dot org.
Speaker 4 (14:44):
You can look up your local chapter.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
I'm happy to talk to anybody about it, but there's
chapters all over the Globe.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
There's one in New York, so please check out dark.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Sky New York and there's some great advocates doing things there.
There's also a dark Sky Park in Cherry Springs, New Jersey,
so maybe that's close to some of your listeners. And
Terry Springs for Cherry Hill and it's Terry Springs.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
I've never even heard of it. Okay, we are out
of time. I want to thank you so much, Eileen Craigie,
dark Skyfriends dot org.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
You've been listening to Sunstein sessions on iHeartRadio, a production
of New York's classic rock Q one O four point three.
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