October 13, 2024 • 15 mins
Original Air Date: October 13, 2024
Nicholas Ma (son of Yo Yo Ma) is the co-director of the doc “Leap Of Faith”, centering on 12 diverse Christian leaders who went on retreats over a one-year period, trying to bridge their divide. It turned out to be a model for society.
Nicholas Ma (son of Yo Yo Ma) is the co-director of the doc “Leap Of Faith”, centering on 12 diverse Christian leaders who went on retreats over a one-year period, trying to bridge their divide. It turned out to be a model for society.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Sunstein Sessions on iHeartRadio, conversations about issues that matter.
Here's your host, three time Grasie Award winner, Shelley Sunstein.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I am pleased to introduce you to Nicholas Ma. Yes,
he is a relative actually, the son of the great
cellist Yo Yo Ma. And he is joining me today
because he has co directed a movie for our times,
a documentary. He co directed this with Morgan Neville, and
(00:32):
they work previously together on the wonderful documentary Won't You
Be My Neighbor? And now they have a new collaboration
and it is called Leap of Faith. And basically it's,
like I said, a movie for our fractured times. I mean,
we have never been more fractured I think as a
society than since the Civil War. And so this documentary
(00:58):
gets together twelve Christian leaders, diverse Christian leaders who go
on retreats over the course of a year to try
to bridge their gaps. Basically, So, first of all, welcome,
thank you, and tell me the backstory to this because
(01:20):
it all goes back to an article in the Wall
Street Journal, right it does?
Speaker 3 (01:24):
It does? It goes back in some ways even further
than that too. Won't you be my neighbor?
Speaker 4 (01:28):
The question that everyone would ask us after that movie
is where are the Fred Rogers of today? And Fred
was this Presbyterian minister who saw his faith is really important,
but soa us, speaking to kids is really important. And
he spoke to kids in the most universal humanist terms
and somehow became this national treasure, and all of us
(01:49):
were curious, well, is that possible anymore? Is it possible
to speak to people across differences? Is it possible to
bridge these gaps that feel impossible, whether that's you know,
red blue, whether that's you know, coastal, middle of the country, urban, rural, black, white, Asian, Hispanic,
whether it has to do with your sexuality or your gender,
(02:10):
all these questions that seemed to plague us, that seem
to drive us apart. Is it possible to speak across
those differences anymore? And you know, I always remembered what
Fred said, which is like he always tried to talk
to one kid when he was doing when he was
sort of doing his program. And when I read about
Michael Gulker's work where he was starting with like one
(02:31):
congregation and saying, how do we in this congregation talk
to each other. There was some echo that sort of
struck me, and I read about that article in the
Wall Street Journal, and I talked to Michael for about
a year, and finally he said, you know what, things
have gotten so bad. I want to do something bigger,
but I still want it to be focused. I'm still
going to make it Christian. I'm still going to make
it grand rapids, but I'm going to make it between
(02:51):
pastors that are really really different, that are pulling in
opposite directions within the context of their Christianity, to see
whether they can turn towards each other and talk to
each other. And you know, I think right now we're
in a moment where that seems like maybe it's the
most unlikely place. Right we see Christianity fracturing so much.
The notion that twelve Christian pastors that believe really different
(03:13):
things could actually see each other, see the sort of
the human dignity each other in each other, and all
of that seems improbable. And they spent a year doing it,
and they surprised me at every turn.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
But actually what they focused on, and correct me if
I'm wrong, because maybe it's just what your documentary focuses on,
is the LGBTQ issue that was at the heart of
the film. It really wasn't politics or anything else. I mean,
there's a point in the film where certain pastors are complaining, Yeah,
(03:47):
but what about these other issues? But it all came
back to that issue, and perhaps because of Pastor Golkin,
who was dealing with this in his own personal life.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
You know, it's interesting.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
I think it was the one topic that all of
us thought we would avoid. Michael wanted to avoid it
because it hit these personal notes for him. I think
the pastors wanted to avoid it because they thought it
was not a topic they could recover from. You know,
they thought the differences are too great on this. You know,
we can be civil and talk about race, we can
be civil and talk about police violence, but can we
(04:22):
actually talk about this topic.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
And if you look within the Christian Church.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
Right now, it is the thing that is blowing up
denominations right The Methodists just split because of it, The
Mennonites are splitting because of it. The Christian Reformed Church
is splitting because of it. So like people can get
over even politics, they can get over, but on this one,
they can't really seem to see each other as existing
and so I think despite everyone's everyone's thought that we
(04:48):
should go away from that topic, all the pastors kept
coming back to it. And you know, I think it's
that reminder that talking about the most difficult thing helps
us know what's possible, right, And for these pastors, this
was the most difficult thing. I don't think that's the
most difficult thing for me living in Brooklyn. Probably not
(05:08):
the most difficult thing for you, but it is. It
was the most difficult thing for them. And then it
made me realize, oh, well, what are the most difficult
topics for me to talk about with my friends, with
my family, with my relatives, with my colleagues. And if
they can talk about that one, I bet I can
talk about the ones in my life. So it becomes
a sort of universalizes it because it's about the most
difficult thing versus about any one topic.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Okay, So the pastor where this all started with is
dealing in his own family with a child who you know,
who is gender fluid.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
He has two kids, both adopted, one of whom is
identifies as sort of queer in some way and sort
of and the other one identifies as non binary. And
you know those are things that are that you know,
come up in every family. Those are questions that come
up in so many families, and they're always a challenge
to deal with because you're trying to understand and love
your child, and yet.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
These are things that you may not be familiar with
as a parent.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
And so you're watching Michael go through that as well
as sort of that sort of refracted and going through
that with these twelve pastors about how do we, you know,
in universal terms, how do we see each other with dignity,
every human being with dignity? In Christian terms? How do
we see the image of God in each other? And
I think that those are questions that are challenging for
(06:32):
us right now, no matter what I mean. I have
friends who can't see someone who would make a certain
election decision in November as being human. Right, It's sort
of like, how could anyone make that decision? And you know,
I think it's a similar kind of failure of imagination, right,
how could anyone be non binary?
Speaker 3 (06:51):
How could anyone vote for Trump?
Speaker 4 (06:52):
How could anyone sort of well, no, that's what's beautiful
is that the human condition has so many varieties to it,
and how do we love across those differences, even if
we disagree mightily.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
I'm speaking with Nicholas ma about the documentary Leap of Faith,
where twelve diverse Christian leaders go on retreats together over
the course of the year and Grand Rapids to overcome
their differences, but their differences ended up being I mean,
the issue that just consumes the whole documentary is the
(07:29):
LGBTQ issue and issues. So when did the retreats end
and where are all these pastors?
Speaker 4 (07:38):
Now, yeah, they ended between they took place between twenty
two and twenty three. They ended in the summer of
twenty twenty three. All the pastors are still incredibly close.
They really sort of have each other's back, and they've
all evolved in ways that I didn't expect, and that's
kind of beautiful. You know, Artie, who's one of the
most conservative pastors, invited the most liberal pastor to come
(08:02):
to his sort of conservative Constitution Day in Grand Rapids,
and she came back the second day and bought more
books on the Constitution because she didn't know that much
about it beforehand. She then invited James, the historically black pastor,
to her pastor group.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
And it's a.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
Liberal pastor group in the north end of chicag of
Grand Rapids that has never had a historically black pastor
in it, historically black church in it, and he's become
one of the most active members. It's changed him, it's
changed the group. He saw the documentary and realized what
Joan was going through. Who's the married lesbian met pastor
and called her up and said, hey, I want to
have a conversation with you. I want to apologize to you.
(08:38):
I want to figure out how we can work together
because we actually share so much more in common than
what divides us. Joan called up already and said, look,
I grew up Baptists, and I always felt rejected by
that faith. Our friendship, even though we still disagree on
these questions, but our deep friendship allows me to see
that as part of who I am, and already hired
someone who was non binary to run his Young Christian
Leaders of Grand Rapids. So you know, all of these
(09:02):
all of these changes are the result of friendship, not
the result of a theological discussion or a debate, and
none of these changes are necessarily theological. There are changes
and how we feel about ourselves and how we feel
about each other, And I think sometimes we forget that
we can have opinions, but we can also love the
(09:26):
human being in front of us, and that to love
the human being in front of us is hard, but
it's beautiful and rewarding in ways that we can't anticipate.
I don't think any of these pastors would have expected
these changes to happen a year later, but I think
they're incredibly grateful for the friendships that gave rise to them.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
So I think the theme that we walk away with is acceptance,
love and respect.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
That's right, especially when it's difficult.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Right.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
I think we think often, you know, you know, love
thy neighbor, you know, in Christian terms is sort of
a sort of you know, won't you be my neighbor?
Speaker 3 (10:04):
In sort of red terms.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
You know, we often think that the easiest way to
do that is by choosing our neighbors. Let's choose people
we can love. The question is how do we love
people that we can't choose, right, And that's a much
harder task, and we don't have people that remind us
that it's worth it. You know, my husband and I
have a seven month old daughter, and when we had
our child, everyone who was a parent around us said
(10:29):
it's hard but it's beautiful.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
It's hard, but it's beautiful. Stick with it.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
The days are long, the years are short. All of that,
we don't have people reminding us that loving people who
are different than us is hard but beautiful.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
We don't get that reminder.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
We get a lot of have acceptance but don't accept
people that aren't accepting or whatever. So how do we
do the hard and beautiful thing of saying, Hey, I
don't know you, I don't get you, you don't make
sense to me. You frustrate me to no end, But
I want to find a way to love you because
I think if I do, something beautiful will come out
of that.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
So how do we apply these lessons in our own lives? Because,
as I said, you know, at the outset, I mean,
certainly in my lifetime, I have never seen more fractured times,
and it just seems to be getting worse and worse,
and actually talking to friends, regardless of who they're supporting
(11:21):
for president, everyone seems to have the opinion. Well, we
just hope it's not close because we're worried about what's
going to happen the day after the election or on
January sixth this year exactly.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
I mean, I think in so many ways this movie
is about the day after the election, right, And I
think we all have this decision in our mind on
election day of what do we have to do there?
But the real question is how do we hold together
after the election? And we think about it in these
big apocalyptic terms, right, like they are going to be
(11:57):
battles on the streets and you know, ball whatever.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
You know. The act is what I ask myself.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
Every day, or where are the three relationships that I
could love across better in my life?
Speaker 3 (12:07):
And can I do that today?
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Right?
Speaker 4 (12:10):
Because if all of us love three people in our
lives a little bit better, that increases the glue that
holds all of us together.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
But wait a minute, but we're talking about not loving
people who disagree with us, not people who are necessarily
you know, close in our lives because people have closed
that that window, that opportunity to even be inclusive of
those who disagree.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
That's right, And I guess that's what I mean, right.
Who is someone that you're not loving really well to all?
But is in your life?
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Right?
Speaker 4 (12:41):
You don't need to go out and say, Okay, I
need to love someone I live in New York City.
I need to love someone in Oklahoma right like that,
that's beyond what is gonna is gonna happen. It's not
a relationship that exists. But there are people in your
life that you love and that you can talk to
and listen to. Right It can be someone that you
see every day at the coffee shop who wears a
you know, a red cap, or wears a Harris Walt's
(13:05):
T shirt or whatever it is. You know, you know,
how do you love that person better? How do you
say hi? How do you strike up a conversation? My
in laws have very different politics than I do. How
do I make sure that I'm staying in relationship with
them and listening to them even if I disagree. Don't
focus on saying how do we solve the global national problem?
Look at the people in your life right now and
start there, and you'll be surprised at what might happen.
(13:27):
It might bring you in touch with more people that
you disagree with, and you have more opportunities for that.
But I think sometimes we can be overwhelmed by the
challenge of saying I can't love someone who you know
wants to you know, who is a you know, neo Nazi,
and it's sort of like, no, and don't.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
That's not the ask.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
The ask is to say, who are the people that
are already in your life that you don't love that well?
Speaker 3 (13:49):
And can you make that better?
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Because then they might make that better and that sort
of percolates and sort of feeds all of us.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Right.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
I think sometimes we make our lives. It's really hard
to love someone different than you, and I think sometimes
we make our lives harder by saying no, we have
to do the most extreme version of it, start with
the thing that's in front of you today, and then
do it again tomorrow, and do it a little bit
more tomorrow. And it may seem like it's a small thing,
but that's the only way that we're going to change
(14:17):
our culture is by saying, Okay, I'm going to change
it in the people around me, and they're going to
change it in people around them, and that filters through
and look, here's this, here's the secret. I've screened this
movie in Nashville, in Saint Louis, in Phoenix, in Grand Rapids,
in d C. In Boston, and now in New York.
(14:38):
In all of these cities, everyone has the same reaction
coming out of the movie saying I want that, I
want more of that. And they can be coming from
a very Christian conservative environment, they can be coming from
a Jewish environment. They can be atheists in New York,
they can be Muslim activists in Nashville. They come out
of it with the same thing, saying I want that.
(14:58):
I don't believe it's possible, but I want that. And
so we underestimate the fact that that yearning is actually
really shared. We all have those people, and sometimes we
are those people to other people.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Right, we're the people site.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
We're out of time. The documentary is Leap of Faith.
It is a documentary for these fractured times. Thank you
so much, Nicholas Ma Again. Leap of Faith is the
name of the documentary.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
You've been listening to Sunstein sessions on iHeartRadio, a production
of New York's classic rock Q one O four point three.
Welcome to Sunstein Sessions on iHeartRadio, conversations about issues that matter.
Here's your host, three time Grasie Award winner, Shelley Sunstein.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I am pleased to introduce you to Nicholas Ma. Yes,
he is a relative actually, the son of the great
cellist Yo Yo Ma. And he is joining me today
because he has co directed a movie for our times,
a documentary. He co directed this with Morgan Neville, and
(00:32):
they work previously together on the wonderful documentary Won't You
Be My Neighbor? And now they have a new collaboration
and it is called Leap of Faith. And basically it's,
like I said, a movie for our fractured times. I mean,
we have never been more fractured I think as a
society than since the Civil War. And so this documentary
(00:58):
gets together twelve Christian leaders, diverse Christian leaders who go
on retreats over the course of a year to try
to bridge their gaps. Basically, So, first of all, welcome,
thank you, and tell me the backstory to this because
(01:20):
it all goes back to an article in the Wall
Street Journal, right it does?
Speaker 3 (01:24):
It does? It goes back in some ways even further
than that too. Won't you be my neighbor?
Speaker 4 (01:28):
The question that everyone would ask us after that movie
is where are the Fred Rogers of today? And Fred
was this Presbyterian minister who saw his faith is really important,
but soa us, speaking to kids is really important. And
he spoke to kids in the most universal humanist terms
and somehow became this national treasure, and all of us
(01:49):
were curious, well, is that possible anymore? Is it possible
to speak to people across differences? Is it possible to
bridge these gaps that feel impossible, whether that's you know,
red blue, whether that's you know, coastal, middle of the country, urban, rural, black, white, Asian, Hispanic,
whether it has to do with your sexuality or your gender,
(02:10):
all these questions that seemed to plague us, that seem
to drive us apart. Is it possible to speak across
those differences anymore? And you know, I always remembered what
Fred said, which is like he always tried to talk
to one kid when he was doing when he was
sort of doing his program. And when I read about
Michael Gulker's work where he was starting with like one
(02:31):
congregation and saying, how do we in this congregation talk
to each other. There was some echo that sort of
struck me, and I read about that article in the
Wall Street Journal, and I talked to Michael for about
a year, and finally he said, you know what, things
have gotten so bad. I want to do something bigger,
but I still want it to be focused. I'm still
going to make it Christian. I'm still going to make
it grand rapids, but I'm going to make it between
(02:51):
pastors that are really really different, that are pulling in
opposite directions within the context of their Christianity, to see
whether they can turn towards each other and talk to
each other. And you know, I think right now we're
in a moment where that seems like maybe it's the
most unlikely place. Right we see Christianity fracturing so much.
The notion that twelve Christian pastors that believe really different
(03:13):
things could actually see each other, see the sort of
the human dignity each other in each other, and all
of that seems improbable. And they spent a year doing it,
and they surprised me at every turn.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
But actually what they focused on, and correct me if
I'm wrong, because maybe it's just what your documentary focuses on,
is the LGBTQ issue that was at the heart of
the film. It really wasn't politics or anything else. I mean,
there's a point in the film where certain pastors are complaining, Yeah,
(03:47):
but what about these other issues? But it all came
back to that issue, and perhaps because of Pastor Golkin,
who was dealing with this in his own personal life.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
You know, it's interesting.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
I think it was the one topic that all of
us thought we would avoid. Michael wanted to avoid it
because it hit these personal notes for him. I think
the pastors wanted to avoid it because they thought it
was not a topic they could recover from. You know,
they thought the differences are too great on this. You know,
we can be civil and talk about race, we can
be civil and talk about police violence, but can we
(04:22):
actually talk about this topic.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
And if you look within the Christian Church.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
Right now, it is the thing that is blowing up
denominations right The Methodists just split because of it, The
Mennonites are splitting because of it. The Christian Reformed Church
is splitting because of it. So like people can get
over even politics, they can get over, but on this one,
they can't really seem to see each other as existing
and so I think despite everyone's everyone's thought that we
(04:48):
should go away from that topic, all the pastors kept
coming back to it. And you know, I think it's
that reminder that talking about the most difficult thing helps
us know what's possible, right, And for these pastors, this
was the most difficult thing. I don't think that's the
most difficult thing for me living in Brooklyn. Probably not
(05:08):
the most difficult thing for you, but it is. It
was the most difficult thing for them. And then it
made me realize, oh, well, what are the most difficult
topics for me to talk about with my friends, with
my family, with my relatives, with my colleagues. And if
they can talk about that one, I bet I can
talk about the ones in my life. So it becomes
a sort of universalizes it because it's about the most
difficult thing versus about any one topic.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Okay, So the pastor where this all started with is
dealing in his own family with a child who you know,
who is gender fluid.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
He has two kids, both adopted, one of whom is
identifies as sort of queer in some way and sort
of and the other one identifies as non binary. And
you know those are things that are that you know,
come up in every family. Those are questions that come
up in so many families, and they're always a challenge
to deal with because you're trying to understand and love
your child, and yet.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
These are things that you may not be familiar with
as a parent.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
And so you're watching Michael go through that as well
as sort of that sort of refracted and going through
that with these twelve pastors about how do we, you know,
in universal terms, how do we see each other with dignity,
every human being with dignity? In Christian terms? How do
we see the image of God in each other? And
I think that those are questions that are challenging for
(06:32):
us right now, no matter what I mean. I have
friends who can't see someone who would make a certain
election decision in November as being human. Right, It's sort
of like, how could anyone make that decision? And you know,
I think it's a similar kind of failure of imagination, right,
how could anyone be non binary?
Speaker 3 (06:51):
How could anyone vote for Trump?
Speaker 4 (06:52):
How could anyone sort of well, no, that's what's beautiful
is that the human condition has so many varieties to it,
and how do we love across those differences, even if
we disagree mightily.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
I'm speaking with Nicholas ma about the documentary Leap of Faith,
where twelve diverse Christian leaders go on retreats together over
the course of the year and Grand Rapids to overcome
their differences, but their differences ended up being I mean,
the issue that just consumes the whole documentary is the
(07:29):
LGBTQ issue and issues. So when did the retreats end
and where are all these pastors?
Speaker 4 (07:38):
Now, yeah, they ended between they took place between twenty
two and twenty three. They ended in the summer of
twenty twenty three. All the pastors are still incredibly close.
They really sort of have each other's back, and they've
all evolved in ways that I didn't expect, and that's
kind of beautiful. You know, Artie, who's one of the
most conservative pastors, invited the most liberal pastor to come
(08:02):
to his sort of conservative Constitution Day in Grand Rapids,
and she came back the second day and bought more
books on the Constitution because she didn't know that much
about it beforehand. She then invited James, the historically black pastor,
to her pastor group.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
And it's a.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
Liberal pastor group in the north end of chicag of
Grand Rapids that has never had a historically black pastor
in it, historically black church in it, and he's become
one of the most active members. It's changed him, it's
changed the group. He saw the documentary and realized what
Joan was going through. Who's the married lesbian met pastor
and called her up and said, hey, I want to
have a conversation with you. I want to apologize to you.
(08:38):
I want to figure out how we can work together
because we actually share so much more in common than
what divides us. Joan called up already and said, look,
I grew up Baptists, and I always felt rejected by
that faith. Our friendship, even though we still disagree on
these questions, but our deep friendship allows me to see
that as part of who I am, and already hired
someone who was non binary to run his Young Christian
Leaders of Grand Rapids. So you know, all of these
(09:02):
all of these changes are the result of friendship, not
the result of a theological discussion or a debate, and
none of these changes are necessarily theological. There are changes
and how we feel about ourselves and how we feel
about each other, And I think sometimes we forget that
we can have opinions, but we can also love the
(09:26):
human being in front of us, and that to love
the human being in front of us is hard, but
it's beautiful and rewarding in ways that we can't anticipate.
I don't think any of these pastors would have expected
these changes to happen a year later, but I think
they're incredibly grateful for the friendships that gave rise to them.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
So I think the theme that we walk away with is acceptance,
love and respect.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
That's right, especially when it's difficult.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Right.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
I think we think often, you know, you know, love
thy neighbor, you know, in Christian terms is sort of
a sort of you know, won't you be my neighbor?
Speaker 3 (10:04):
In sort of red terms.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
You know, we often think that the easiest way to
do that is by choosing our neighbors. Let's choose people
we can love. The question is how do we love
people that we can't choose, right, And that's a much
harder task, and we don't have people that remind us
that it's worth it. You know, my husband and I
have a seven month old daughter, and when we had
our child, everyone who was a parent around us said
(10:29):
it's hard but it's beautiful.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
It's hard, but it's beautiful. Stick with it.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
The days are long, the years are short. All of that,
we don't have people reminding us that loving people who
are different than us is hard but beautiful.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
We don't get that reminder.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
We get a lot of have acceptance but don't accept
people that aren't accepting or whatever. So how do we
do the hard and beautiful thing of saying, Hey, I
don't know you, I don't get you, you don't make
sense to me. You frustrate me to no end, But
I want to find a way to love you because
I think if I do, something beautiful will come out
of that.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
So how do we apply these lessons in our own lives? Because,
as I said, you know, at the outset, I mean,
certainly in my lifetime, I have never seen more fractured times,
and it just seems to be getting worse and worse,
and actually talking to friends, regardless of who they're supporting
(11:21):
for president, everyone seems to have the opinion. Well, we
just hope it's not close because we're worried about what's
going to happen the day after the election or on
January sixth this year exactly.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
I mean, I think in so many ways this movie
is about the day after the election, right, And I
think we all have this decision in our mind on
election day of what do we have to do there?
But the real question is how do we hold together
after the election? And we think about it in these
big apocalyptic terms, right, like they are going to be
(11:57):
battles on the streets and you know, ball whatever.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
You know. The act is what I ask myself.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
Every day, or where are the three relationships that I
could love across better in my life?
Speaker 3 (12:07):
And can I do that today?
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Right?
Speaker 4 (12:10):
Because if all of us love three people in our
lives a little bit better, that increases the glue that
holds all of us together.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
But wait a minute, but we're talking about not loving
people who disagree with us, not people who are necessarily
you know, close in our lives because people have closed
that that window, that opportunity to even be inclusive of
those who disagree.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
That's right, And I guess that's what I mean, right.
Who is someone that you're not loving really well to all?
But is in your life?
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Right?
Speaker 4 (12:41):
You don't need to go out and say, Okay, I
need to love someone I live in New York City.
I need to love someone in Oklahoma right like that,
that's beyond what is gonna is gonna happen. It's not
a relationship that exists. But there are people in your
life that you love and that you can talk to
and listen to. Right It can be someone that you
see every day at the coffee shop who wears a
you know, a red cap, or wears a Harris Walt's
(13:05):
T shirt or whatever it is. You know, you know,
how do you love that person better? How do you
say hi? How do you strike up a conversation? My
in laws have very different politics than I do. How
do I make sure that I'm staying in relationship with
them and listening to them even if I disagree. Don't
focus on saying how do we solve the global national problem?
Look at the people in your life right now and
start there, and you'll be surprised at what might happen.
(13:27):
It might bring you in touch with more people that
you disagree with, and you have more opportunities for that.
But I think sometimes we can be overwhelmed by the
challenge of saying I can't love someone who you know
wants to you know, who is a you know, neo Nazi,
and it's sort of like, no, and don't.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
That's not the ask.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
The ask is to say, who are the people that
are already in your life that you don't love that well?
Speaker 3 (13:49):
And can you make that better?
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Because then they might make that better and that sort
of percolates and sort of feeds all of us.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Right.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
I think sometimes we make our lives. It's really hard
to love someone different than you, and I think sometimes
we make our lives harder by saying no, we have
to do the most extreme version of it, start with
the thing that's in front of you today, and then
do it again tomorrow, and do it a little bit
more tomorrow. And it may seem like it's a small thing,
but that's the only way that we're going to change
(14:17):
our culture is by saying, Okay, I'm going to change
it in the people around me, and they're going to
change it in people around them, and that filters through
and look, here's this, here's the secret. I've screened this
movie in Nashville, in Saint Louis, in Phoenix, in Grand Rapids,
in d C. In Boston, and now in New York.
(14:38):
In all of these cities, everyone has the same reaction
coming out of the movie saying I want that, I
want more of that. And they can be coming from
a very Christian conservative environment, they can be coming from
a Jewish environment. They can be atheists in New York,
they can be Muslim activists in Nashville. They come out
of it with the same thing, saying I want that.
(14:58):
I don't believe it's possible, but I want that. And
so we underestimate the fact that that yearning is actually
really shared. We all have those people, and sometimes we
are those people to other people.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Right, we're the people site.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
We're out of time. The documentary is Leap of Faith.
It is a documentary for these fractured times. Thank you
so much, Nicholas Ma Again. Leap of Faith is the
name of the documentary.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
You've been listening to Sunstein sessions on iHeartRadio, a production
of New York's classic rock Q one O four point three.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Cold Case Files: Miami
Joyce Sapp, 76; Bryan Herrera, 16; and Laurance Webb, 32—three Miami residents whose lives were stolen in brutal, unsolved homicides. Cold Case Files: Miami follows award‑winning radio host and City of Miami Police reserve officer Enrique Santos as he partners with the department’s Cold Case Homicide Unit, determined family members, and the advocates who spend their lives fighting for justice for the victims who can no longer fight for themselves.