January 19, 2025 • 15 mins
Original Air Date: January 19, 2025
Fab Faux drummer Rich Pagano’s new solo album “Hold Still Light Escapes” is a rock ‘n roll elegy inspired by text messages found on the cellphone o his late son, Nic, lost to a fentanyl overdose after a 5 year abuse disorder ordeal.
Fab Faux drummer Rich Pagano’s new solo album “Hold Still Light Escapes” is a rock ‘n roll elegy inspired by text messages found on the cellphone o his late son, Nic, lost to a fentanyl overdose after a 5 year abuse disorder ordeal.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Sunstein Sessions on iHeartRadio, conversations about issues that matter.
Here's your host, three time Grasie Award winner, Shelley Sunstein.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I am so honored to have returning with us Rich Bigano,
the drummer for the Fab Fo, and also Zach Clark,
who is the founder and president of Release Recovery Foundation.
Rich is joining us this morning because he has a
(00:33):
new album that's out this month that is painfully personal album.
It's Hold Still Light Escapes. It's a rock and roll
elegy inspired by text messages discovered on the phone of
his late son Nick, who he lost to a fentanyl overdose.
(00:58):
Also inspired by exces with his son Nick. And like
I said, this is such a painful personal album. Tell
us about.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
It, Rich, Well, thanks for bringing that up. I also
want to add that the album it will be streaming
later this month on all platforms, but currently there is
a CD version out there of it.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
The streaming will be ten tracks. The CD itself is
seventeen tracks.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
And thanks to Zach Clark and Todd Whitmer of Karen
Treatment Center, they asked me.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
To actually have a CD available.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
I wasn't going to go to CD with this because
I'm not sure who is CD players anymore. But thanks
to Zach and Todd and a few other people, the
CD is available a deluxe edition and it's available on
my website, and we'll be available at.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
This week's event. But yeah, it was.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
I'm actually sitting in Nick's room, which pretty much is unchanged.
I wrote most of the lyrics sitting on his bed
behind me and recorded a lot of it in this room.
As far as the demos, and I was able to
get into Nick's phone and see what transpired in the
(02:21):
last forty eight hours of his life, and a few
of the songs are about that, but some of the
other the rest of the songs are pretty much experiential
five year journey, starting with my wife Karen and I
chasing Nick around the country and me getting a heart attack,
having a heart attack, I'm fine now, and then just
(02:41):
the experience of Hidden selling a good game, but we
knew that he was still struggling, and songs about that,
Songs about the woman who was with Nick when he
did go to the dealer, as I was able to
speak with her, and just what's on the horizon in life,
and so far as we getting a nice reaction. Even
(03:02):
though it's not even streaming yet the few reviewers and
industry people that have heard it. I think it's going
to have a nice life. And thanks again to you,
Zach for getting a tangible product out there of it.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
All and all that proceeds go to the Release Recovery.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Foundation and Karen Treatment Center, specifically to the Nick Pagano
lgbt Q I A plus scholarships for recovery.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Zach tell us about that scholarship program because there are
people that are listening right now that actually may be
able to benefit because you know, the treatment for drug
or addiction issues, it's not like a once in done
sort of thing. I think people who aren't connected to
(03:46):
the community think, Okay, you go to to get help
and then it's done, and most in most cases it's years.
It's years, and you never completely in the clear. As
Rich painfully knows with Nick struggles.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
Yeah, thanks for having me so.
Speaker 5 (04:08):
Yeah, behavior healthcare is a challenge obviously, you know, I'm
not going to get into the politics of it around
healthcare and what's paid for and what's not. But what
I can tell you is that there are we knew Nick,
we worked with Nick, I saw Nick during some of
his best moments when he was sober and thriving and
really pursuing his passions, one of which was helping the
(04:30):
LGBTQI plus community. So when we started the Release Recovery
Foundation back in late nineteen early twenty, we tried to
identify some communities out there that were perhaps underserved and
or struggled to ask for help. And this was one
(04:50):
of those communities. So we were able to partner with
Rich and the care and treatment centers where was actually
where I went to rehab out in Pennsylvania, and we
have this beautiful style Ship Fund, which is basically the
long story short is, if you identify as someone from
that community and you call me or you call Karen
and you are seeking help, seeking treatment, impatient treatment for
(05:12):
a you know, a substance abuse issue or a mental
health disorder, it's really no question to ask. So long
as you can prove that you need the financial assistance,
we will get you help. And then we will we
will work with you, and we will stay in touch
with you and and hope for a positive outcome. You know,
the second part of that is the outcome is not
(05:33):
always positive, right as you as you mentioned, and we
have to look at this thing the same way we
look at cancer or heart disease or diabetes.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
Right, there's there's there's there's returns.
Speaker 5 (05:42):
To use as we see, and there is unfortunately, accidental
overdoses and death by suicide, and so we have to
work really hard to make sure that the proper support
is in place.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Rich tell us about the event that the City Wannery
that's coming up this coming Thursday. I mean, you have
this yearly, but it gets bigger and bigger every year.
And this year, of course, because of the release of
your album Holds Still Light Escapes especially, it's going to
be very, very eventful and touching.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Yeah, a third annual, and I believe, I wish I
had the stats in front of me.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
I believe that the last two.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Events were able to create scholarships for at least five
or six clients. But that's on top of that are
the scholarships created from other entities, the Release Recovery Foundation,
Galleys and Events, and Karen Treatment. So you know, we're
proud to say that a lot of brave souls have
(06:49):
passed through the program. The Nick Pagana Program out in Warnersville, Pennsylvania,
Karen treatment programs. But yeah, so we're hoping that this
year we can create a bunch more scholarships. The crux
will not be about my record on this show is
really going to be about the artists and what they bring.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
There will be a record release party later in the
winter for me.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
But yeah, so this this Thursday we have it's the
most eclectic mix that we've had so far, which is
exactly what I was hoping it would eventually be.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
So can I can I name drop?
Speaker 6 (07:20):
Absolutely so, our good friend Betty Levette will be back
with us, Willie Nile, Anna Egg, Teddy Thompson, Betty the Band,
the Trio, Betty exclamation Point, the great Hank Azaria is
going to be with us.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
And Hank he started the Springsteen cover.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Band that really is doing great everywhere, and we reached
out to him and he got back to us immediately
about being a part of this. Martha Wainwright one of
my favorites, Martha Redbone, who.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
Seems to be a mainstay with us.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
She's real supportive of of the foundation and there were
certain people that certain entities involved feel that should be
involved every year, and Martha is always asked to come
back the great Bobby Harden Solster New York City Solster,
and we're represented. We're representing Washington Heights with solsa sort
(08:18):
of a Latin rock band, and they are presenting Sophia
Ramos with them. I'm going to do a song at
this time. And so yeah, it's this Thursday, seven thirty start.
We're starting in a bit earlier this year because we
know it's a jam pack night. Also, my wife Karen Marx,
through the Howard Greenberg Gallery, has donated I believe six
(08:40):
rock and roll photographs, the best yet so far, that
will be auctioned off really quickly at the center of
the night, and that always does well for us. So yeah,
I have an amazing New York City band and I'm
Zach I'm sure is going to come up and say
a few words. He always inspires the audience during the night.
(09:01):
And it's yeah, we just started arrangements and rehearsals and
it's really going to be a wonderful night.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
And it's at City Winery, by the way in New
York City.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
And how do people get tickets.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Citywinery dot com. You can go to the New York
City tab. I know that they have many cities, but
go to the New York City tab and scroll down
to the date January twenty third.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
Well, his sun is really shining in here, now, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Yeah, Yeah, yeah, I mean it's kind of inspiring. I
am speaking with Zach Clark, the founder and president of
Release Recovery Foundation, and the wonderful Rich Pagano, who is
the drummer for the Fab Foe and he lost his
son Nick to a fentanel overdose. Can you tell us
(09:48):
Rich about his struggle his journey? And I feel that
light is like coming Nick that we see right now.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
You know one thing I'll say with Zach here, and
Zach knows this, and I know that it's hard. It's
sort of a bittersweet when I say this, that you
know Nick Zick. Nick was a client at at Release Recovery,
probably his first.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
His first step down after a thirty day.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Program and and and Zach took him in and and
it was really a wonderful experience. Unfortunately, Nick did relapse
and he had to go back to impatient. He never
did return to Release Recovery up in New Yorktown Heights,
but he did say years later that he wished that
he never left release recovery. It's a really wonderful soulca
(10:40):
living environment. And now there of course all over the
place or New York City, and there's even a Woman's Entity,
and it's just a it's the best of the best,
and we're lucky to have this organization around life.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
But yeah, Nick was doing great. He was he was
having a wonderful year.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
In twenty twenty one, he was six months sober. He
was an expert when articulating the twelve Steps. I learned
so much from him because he really took his meetings
in his community seriously. Finally we learned how to love
him with compassion but with boundaries, and he finally turned
(11:21):
to his sober community rather than seeing us as a
safety net, which was the case for a few years.
But by getting into his phone, I saw that he
had a few days of self doubt and he reached
out to people but didn't say exactly what was bothering him.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
But then eventually went to the street.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Unfortunately, and this epidemic that is taking down a whole generation,
it got its claws in him through a small packet
that was lace with fentanyl. But I think I've said
this before and I'll say it quickly again that our
last lunch with Nick, when we went to busy him,
he was in Boston at the time. He then moved
(12:03):
to New Haven where we lost him, but when he
was in Boston and he was thriving, our last conversation
with him, when he was sober, with him talking about
wanting to go back to school to get his social
workers license and become a welcoming entity, like Zach said
at impatient intake I'm sorry intake at a treatment center,
(12:25):
and we felt he's back, there's our son. He's shining
through again. And that was that was his goal, to
get his social workers license. And Zach and of course
Todd Whitmer, they knew about that, and that's when they
came to us and said, let's further that with a
foundation in his name to benefit the gay community because
(12:46):
they're dying at a twenty percent higher rate than every
other community because they tend to run away from treatment.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
I'm sure Zach can elaborate on that.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Rich.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
We only have about a minute and a half left.
I want you to talk right now for the last
minute or so directly to parents who are experience, who
are going through what you went through and hoping for
the best. What advice can you give them after what
you and your wife have lived through and continue to
(13:19):
live through.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Sure, you know, I've actually since become a certified sober coach,
so every week I do have at least one parent meeting,
and I'm very proud that I'm able to take my knowledge.
And I always start at my meetings by saying, didn't
work out so well for me, but in some ways
it kind of did because my tools, our tools were
able to keep Nick alive for an additional eighteen months.
(13:41):
I felt with what I learned. But what I do
tell parents is respond, do not react. This is a
disease and compassion with boundaries is very important, and then
we go through steps from there.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
What do you mean briefly about respond not react?
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Well, I found, and I find with most situations that
when you react to your child when they're in the
throes of a substitute disorder, it's almost like an additional
endorphin rush because there's a feeling there. There's a feeling
of nurturing, even if you are angry. But when you
do shift down and not react but just respond, they're
(14:27):
not getting what they need from you or what they're
hoping from you, which is that endorphin rush, which is
not close to the endorphin rush that we get from
taking a narcotic, but it certainly has a similar feeling.
And when you shift down, they have no choice but
to shift down. And then you go through the steps
of trying to figure out what the process should be,
whether that be a level of harm reduction or complete abstinence,
(14:52):
or in patient treatment or outpatient treatment. Yeah, I hope
I didn't get too detailed there, but it certainly does resonate.
It is a disease, and many parents feel, how dare
he or she do this to me? What did I
do to And it has nothing to do with the parent.
It has a lot to do with the disease, but
(15:12):
the dynamic with the parent does exacerbate.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
The situation.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Thank you so much, Zach Clark and Rich Pagano drummer
for the Fab four. This Thursday night, City Winery, there
is going to be the Nick Pogano lgbt QIA Plus
Scholarship for Recovery Benefit concert and you can still get
tickets and bless Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
You've been listening to Sunstein sessions on iHeartRadio, a production
of New York's classic rock Q one O four point
three
Welcome to Sunstein Sessions on iHeartRadio, conversations about issues that matter.
Here's your host, three time Grasie Award winner, Shelley Sunstein.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I am so honored to have returning with us Rich Bigano,
the drummer for the Fab Fo, and also Zach Clark,
who is the founder and president of Release Recovery Foundation.
Rich is joining us this morning because he has a
(00:33):
new album that's out this month that is painfully personal album.
It's Hold Still Light Escapes. It's a rock and roll
elegy inspired by text messages discovered on the phone of
his late son Nick, who he lost to a fentanyl overdose.
(00:58):
Also inspired by exces with his son Nick. And like
I said, this is such a painful personal album. Tell
us about.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
It, Rich, Well, thanks for bringing that up. I also
want to add that the album it will be streaming
later this month on all platforms, but currently there is
a CD version out there of it.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
The streaming will be ten tracks. The CD itself is
seventeen tracks.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
And thanks to Zach Clark and Todd Whitmer of Karen
Treatment Center, they asked me.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
To actually have a CD available.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
I wasn't going to go to CD with this because
I'm not sure who is CD players anymore. But thanks
to Zach and Todd and a few other people, the
CD is available a deluxe edition and it's available on
my website, and we'll be available at.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
This week's event. But yeah, it was.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
I'm actually sitting in Nick's room, which pretty much is unchanged.
I wrote most of the lyrics sitting on his bed
behind me and recorded a lot of it in this room.
As far as the demos, and I was able to
get into Nick's phone and see what transpired in the
(02:21):
last forty eight hours of his life, and a few
of the songs are about that, but some of the
other the rest of the songs are pretty much experiential
five year journey, starting with my wife Karen and I
chasing Nick around the country and me getting a heart attack,
having a heart attack, I'm fine now, and then just
(02:41):
the experience of Hidden selling a good game, but we
knew that he was still struggling, and songs about that,
Songs about the woman who was with Nick when he
did go to the dealer, as I was able to
speak with her, and just what's on the horizon in life,
and so far as we getting a nice reaction. Even
(03:02):
though it's not even streaming yet the few reviewers and
industry people that have heard it. I think it's going
to have a nice life. And thanks again to you,
Zach for getting a tangible product out there of it.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
All and all that proceeds go to the Release Recovery.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Foundation and Karen Treatment Center, specifically to the Nick Pagano
lgbt Q I A plus scholarships for recovery.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Zach tell us about that scholarship program because there are
people that are listening right now that actually may be
able to benefit because you know, the treatment for drug
or addiction issues, it's not like a once in done
sort of thing. I think people who aren't connected to
(03:46):
the community think, Okay, you go to to get help
and then it's done, and most in most cases it's years.
It's years, and you never completely in the clear. As
Rich painfully knows with Nick struggles.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
Yeah, thanks for having me so.
Speaker 5 (04:08):
Yeah, behavior healthcare is a challenge obviously, you know, I'm
not going to get into the politics of it around
healthcare and what's paid for and what's not. But what
I can tell you is that there are we knew Nick,
we worked with Nick, I saw Nick during some of
his best moments when he was sober and thriving and
really pursuing his passions, one of which was helping the
(04:30):
LGBTQI plus community. So when we started the Release Recovery
Foundation back in late nineteen early twenty, we tried to
identify some communities out there that were perhaps underserved and
or struggled to ask for help. And this was one
(04:50):
of those communities. So we were able to partner with
Rich and the care and treatment centers where was actually
where I went to rehab out in Pennsylvania, and we
have this beautiful style Ship Fund, which is basically the
long story short is, if you identify as someone from
that community and you call me or you call Karen
and you are seeking help, seeking treatment, impatient treatment for
(05:12):
a you know, a substance abuse issue or a mental
health disorder, it's really no question to ask. So long
as you can prove that you need the financial assistance,
we will get you help. And then we will we
will work with you, and we will stay in touch
with you and and hope for a positive outcome. You know,
the second part of that is the outcome is not
(05:33):
always positive, right as you as you mentioned, and we
have to look at this thing the same way we
look at cancer or heart disease or diabetes.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
Right, there's there's there's there's returns.
Speaker 5 (05:42):
To use as we see, and there is unfortunately, accidental
overdoses and death by suicide, and so we have to
work really hard to make sure that the proper support
is in place.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Rich tell us about the event that the City Wannery
that's coming up this coming Thursday. I mean, you have
this yearly, but it gets bigger and bigger every year.
And this year, of course, because of the release of
your album Holds Still Light Escapes especially, it's going to
be very, very eventful and touching.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Yeah, a third annual, and I believe, I wish I
had the stats in front of me.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
I believe that the last two.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Events were able to create scholarships for at least five
or six clients. But that's on top of that are
the scholarships created from other entities, the Release Recovery Foundation,
Galleys and Events, and Karen Treatment. So you know, we're
proud to say that a lot of brave souls have
(06:49):
passed through the program. The Nick Pagana Program out in Warnersville, Pennsylvania,
Karen treatment programs. But yeah, so we're hoping that this
year we can create a bunch more scholarships. The crux
will not be about my record on this show is
really going to be about the artists and what they bring.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
There will be a record release party later in the
winter for me.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
But yeah, so this this Thursday we have it's the
most eclectic mix that we've had so far, which is
exactly what I was hoping it would eventually be.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
So can I can I name drop?
Speaker 6 (07:20):
Absolutely so, our good friend Betty Levette will be back
with us, Willie Nile, Anna Egg, Teddy Thompson, Betty the Band,
the Trio, Betty exclamation Point, the great Hank Azaria is
going to be with us.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
And Hank he started the Springsteen cover.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Band that really is doing great everywhere, and we reached
out to him and he got back to us immediately
about being a part of this. Martha Wainwright one of
my favorites, Martha Redbone, who.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
Seems to be a mainstay with us.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
She's real supportive of of the foundation and there were
certain people that certain entities involved feel that should be
involved every year, and Martha is always asked to come
back the great Bobby Harden Solster New York City Solster,
and we're represented. We're representing Washington Heights with solsa sort
(08:18):
of a Latin rock band, and they are presenting Sophia
Ramos with them. I'm going to do a song at
this time. And so yeah, it's this Thursday, seven thirty start.
We're starting in a bit earlier this year because we
know it's a jam pack night. Also, my wife Karen Marx,
through the Howard Greenberg Gallery, has donated I believe six
(08:40):
rock and roll photographs, the best yet so far, that
will be auctioned off really quickly at the center of
the night, and that always does well for us. So yeah,
I have an amazing New York City band and I'm
Zach I'm sure is going to come up and say
a few words. He always inspires the audience during the night.
(09:01):
And it's yeah, we just started arrangements and rehearsals and
it's really going to be a wonderful night.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
And it's at City Winery, by the way in New
York City.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
And how do people get tickets.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Citywinery dot com. You can go to the New York
City tab. I know that they have many cities, but
go to the New York City tab and scroll down
to the date January twenty third.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
Well, his sun is really shining in here, now, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Yeah, Yeah, yeah, I mean it's kind of inspiring. I
am speaking with Zach Clark, the founder and president of
Release Recovery Foundation, and the wonderful Rich Pagano, who is
the drummer for the Fab Foe and he lost his
son Nick to a fentanel overdose. Can you tell us
(09:48):
Rich about his struggle his journey? And I feel that
light is like coming Nick that we see right now.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
You know one thing I'll say with Zach here, and
Zach knows this, and I know that it's hard. It's
sort of a bittersweet when I say this, that you
know Nick Zick. Nick was a client at at Release Recovery,
probably his first.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
His first step down after a thirty day.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Program and and and Zach took him in and and
it was really a wonderful experience. Unfortunately, Nick did relapse
and he had to go back to impatient. He never
did return to Release Recovery up in New Yorktown Heights,
but he did say years later that he wished that
he never left release recovery. It's a really wonderful soulca
(10:40):
living environment. And now there of course all over the
place or New York City, and there's even a Woman's Entity,
and it's just a it's the best of the best,
and we're lucky to have this organization around life.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
But yeah, Nick was doing great. He was he was
having a wonderful year.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
In twenty twenty one, he was six months sober. He
was an expert when articulating the twelve Steps. I learned
so much from him because he really took his meetings
in his community seriously. Finally we learned how to love
him with compassion but with boundaries, and he finally turned
(11:21):
to his sober community rather than seeing us as a
safety net, which was the case for a few years.
But by getting into his phone, I saw that he
had a few days of self doubt and he reached
out to people but didn't say exactly what was bothering him.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
But then eventually went to the street.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Unfortunately, and this epidemic that is taking down a whole generation,
it got its claws in him through a small packet
that was lace with fentanyl. But I think I've said
this before and I'll say it quickly again that our
last lunch with Nick, when we went to busy him,
he was in Boston at the time. He then moved
(12:03):
to New Haven where we lost him, but when he
was in Boston and he was thriving, our last conversation
with him, when he was sober, with him talking about
wanting to go back to school to get his social
workers license and become a welcoming entity, like Zach said
at impatient intake I'm sorry intake at a treatment center,
(12:25):
and we felt he's back, there's our son. He's shining
through again. And that was that was his goal, to
get his social workers license. And Zach and of course
Todd Whitmer, they knew about that, and that's when they
came to us and said, let's further that with a
foundation in his name to benefit the gay community because
(12:46):
they're dying at a twenty percent higher rate than every
other community because they tend to run away from treatment.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
I'm sure Zach can elaborate on that.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Rich.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
We only have about a minute and a half left.
I want you to talk right now for the last
minute or so directly to parents who are experience, who
are going through what you went through and hoping for
the best. What advice can you give them after what
you and your wife have lived through and continue to
(13:19):
live through.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Sure, you know, I've actually since become a certified sober coach,
so every week I do have at least one parent meeting,
and I'm very proud that I'm able to take my knowledge.
And I always start at my meetings by saying, didn't
work out so well for me, but in some ways
it kind of did because my tools, our tools were
able to keep Nick alive for an additional eighteen months.
(13:41):
I felt with what I learned. But what I do
tell parents is respond, do not react. This is a
disease and compassion with boundaries is very important, and then
we go through steps from there.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
What do you mean briefly about respond not react?
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Well, I found, and I find with most situations that
when you react to your child when they're in the
throes of a substitute disorder, it's almost like an additional
endorphin rush because there's a feeling there. There's a feeling
of nurturing, even if you are angry. But when you
do shift down and not react but just respond, they're
(14:27):
not getting what they need from you or what they're
hoping from you, which is that endorphin rush, which is
not close to the endorphin rush that we get from
taking a narcotic, but it certainly has a similar feeling.
And when you shift down, they have no choice but
to shift down. And then you go through the steps
of trying to figure out what the process should be,
whether that be a level of harm reduction or complete abstinence,
(14:52):
or in patient treatment or outpatient treatment. Yeah, I hope
I didn't get too detailed there, but it certainly does resonate.
It is a disease, and many parents feel, how dare
he or she do this to me? What did I
do to And it has nothing to do with the parent.
It has a lot to do with the disease, but
(15:12):
the dynamic with the parent does exacerbate.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
The situation.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Thank you so much, Zach Clark and Rich Pagano drummer
for the Fab four. This Thursday night, City Winery, there
is going to be the Nick Pogano lgbt QIA Plus
Scholarship for Recovery Benefit concert and you can still get
tickets and bless Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
You've been listening to Sunstein sessions on iHeartRadio, a production
of New York's classic rock Q one O four point
three
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