Robert Patman: International Relations Expert on Cook Islands seeking separate passport while wanting to retain NZ citizenship

Cook Islands have had a proposal to introduce separate passports for its citizens while retaining New Zealand citizenship rejected. 

The office of New Zealand’s Foreign Minister Winston Peters says the Cook Islands can only have its own passport if it gives up NZ citizenship. 

The Cook Islands operates in free association with New Zealand, conducting its own affairs. But, New Zealand is responsible for its foreign affairs and defence, plus Cook Islanders can live, work and access healthcare here. 

International Relations Professor Robert Patman tells Tim Beveridge it is not clear how widespread the want for independence is in the Cook Islands.  

Cook Islands Prime Minister Mark Brown says they need their own passport to “recognise our own people”. 

Patman says there is a concern that Prime Minister Brown is putting a good relationship with NZ in jeopardy with this initiative. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
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Speaker 2 (00:16):
So Cook Island independence might be easier said than done.
If the Pacific nation wants to split its free association
with New Zealand, our Ministry of Foreign Affairs his Cook
Islanders would have to give up Kiwi citizenship. Any decision
over the country's constitutional future would need to go also
through a referendum. In international relations, Professor Robert Patman joins me, Now,
good morning.

Speaker 3 (00:38):
Good morning, Tim.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
So why why are they looking at independence?

Speaker 3 (00:45):
Well, first of all, it seems to be according to
Cook Islanders spokespersons, this is an initiative largely driven by
Prime Minister Mark Brown and his supporters, So we don't
know how widespread this sentiment is the demand for Cook
Islanders to remain in free association within the realm of

(01:06):
New Zealand based have all the benefits of being a
New Zealand citizen, but also have their own passport. According
to Prime Minister Brown, Cook Islanders need their own passport
quote to recognize our own people unquote, which's an identity thing.
And he's arguing that there are new Zealand citizens with

(01:29):
dual passports, So what's the problem. But New Zealand does
not see it that way.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah, I've got a sense that's it might be a
tough one for room to get past and a referendum.

Speaker 3 (01:41):
Yes, no, And I think there is a concern or
at least a perception emanating from the Cook Islands that
the Prime Minister Mark Brown may be putting in jeopardy.
What's been a very good relationship between the Cook Islands
and New Zealand and at the moment the Cook Islanders

(02:01):
can have a New Zealand passport, they could have access
to all the services available to New Zealanders. So there
is a concern something like one hundred thousand Cook Island
nationals live in New Zealand while only about fifteen thousand
live on the Cook Islands.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
Well, what do they have to do in terms of
a referendum? Is it like seventy percent or something or
what do we know about the process that Well, we
just don't.

Speaker 3 (02:25):
Know the terms of the referendum. Normally it's quite a
decisive majority for national referendum or to decide things like this.
What sorry, yes, right, No, I was just going to
say it's it's not certain at this point in time
that the overwhelming number of Cook Island Nationals living in

(02:47):
the Cook Islands actually have the same view as the
Prime Minister, but that can be tested, of course, in
a referendum. To be fair to the Prime Minister, he
has indicated in the last day or so that he
doesn't want to jeopardize the relationship with New Zealand that
has been within the realm of New Zealand. So perhaps
this will this story will just away.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
I don't know what have you made of New Zealand's
response to it.

Speaker 3 (03:13):
Well, I think I think the government's making the point
that you can't have dual citizenship when it's it's not
comparable to a situation when you've got someone who's got
a passport, a dual passport for two independent countries. Here
we have one entity in the Cook Islands, which was

(03:38):
in which is effectively within the realm of New Zealand's sovereignty.
So I think that's where the counter argument is coming
in from the government. They're saying you can't actually this
is not you know, it's not a dual citizen's dual
passport arrangement involving two independent countries. This is a request
for dual passports, which involves one self governing entity within

(04:03):
the realm of New Zealand. So it's saying it's not
comparable to the sort of due passport arrangements available. By
the way, Jill passports can be quite messy because they
can involve double taxation and things like that. So again
that's where the parallel with the Cook Islands begins to fade,
because clearly, at the moment Cook Islands arrangements are tiedy

(04:28):
in with New Zealand, there's no other party to pay
taxation to other than New Zealand.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
Are there other ramifications I'm thinking of the elephant in
the room and the Pacific being China. Is there any
ramifications about this move they might make?

Speaker 3 (04:46):
Possibly, But you know the thing that I think this
can be handled without a huge geopolitical earthquake. There's a
good dialogue going on. And I was struck by the
fact that the Prime Minister the Cook Islands, he's obviously

(05:07):
thinks is a very good idea, but he when he's
got the government very clear response saying it's not on
unless if it Basically the New Zealand government is saying
if you want your own part sport, then you're going
to have to go independent. And that in the New
Zealand government said that's yes, entirely, you're right and we
won't stand in.

Speaker 2 (05:26):
The way of that Ziel doing a good job of
making the Cook Island as the Cook Islands feel important
in terms of the valuing of the relationship.

Speaker 3 (05:36):
I think from the perspective from what I can gather
the perspective of most Cook Island nationals, it is certainly
Cook Islands value access to a range of health services
they may not otherwise have without the association. And that
you can just see by the number of Cook Islanders
who actually live in New Zealand now far more living

(05:58):
in New Zealand than actually living in the Cook Islands.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
I do get. I do get the sense that it's
an issue he's raised and it probably not It might
not even get to the referendum stage if he feels
it's unpopular.

Speaker 3 (06:08):
What do you think, Yeah, I mean, I think that's possible. Look,
I understand the aspiration to have a distinct identity, but
I think what the government is saying is that they've
got no problem with that. But you can't, you know,
you can't have your cake and eat it. You can't
have your own passport, but in fact enjoy the benefits

(06:32):
of basically being you know, a New Zealand entity as well.
So yeah, I mean it seems to me the government's
position legally, it seems to be quite consistent.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
Hey Robert, thanks very much for your insul and that'll
be interesting to watch the progress on us must have been.
I was pretty surprised when I saw that they were
looking for independence because from the people I know from
the Cook Islands, they love the fact that it's an
easy sort of well that they're part of New Zealand
and cuts both ways.

Speaker 1 (07:01):
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