December 18, 2025 • 34 mins
In the second hour of today's show, Sheriff Steve Reams fills in for Dan Caplis and talks with Dick Wadhams and George Brauchler.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Dan Capless and welcome to today's online podcast
edition of The Dan Caplis Show. Please be sure to
give us a five star rating if you'd be so kind,
and to subscribe, download, and listen to the show every
single day on your favorite podcast platform.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Our two of two today and with you as your
guest host as well, Kenny Shriff Steve Reims filling in today.
I had George Brockler on Tuesday, Heidi Ganal yesterday, and
you'll have Christy Burton Brown tomorrow. So kind of a
mixed bag of fill ins this week. I think Dan
was actually on his show on Monday, so you got
it for at least one day this week. And who knows,
(00:35):
there'd be some more fill in stuff. I'm sure through
the holidays and whatnot. So I'm sure i'll be back
with you in some form or fashion in the days
to come. But we went from one topic of talking
about House Built ten thirty four in that first hour
to now, let's get back to talking about some stuff
that we've been covering in previous shows, and Ryan's been
covering on his show as well, and that's the governor's
(00:57):
primary race, the Republican side here, I wanted to bring
on a special guest, mister Dick Wadhams, so that he
could tell us kind of his take on where this
where this political juggernaut, if you will, is going, and
if he sees a clear winner starting to emerge. So, Dick,
thanks for being on with us, and let's hear your
opinion on where this whole in mess is going in
(01:17):
the in the Republican gubernatorial primary.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Well, let me let me start, Steve by saying that
I actually have a degree of optimism that Colorado Republicans
could be competitive in this governor's race next year. Okay, there,
we saw a poll about two months ago, a month
ago that showed that Poe was kicking, Looper and Bennett
are all underwater, that a majority of Colorado voters think
(01:46):
the state is on the wrong track. And then a
poll came out this week that pulled unaffiliated voters and
it clearly shows that that that Republicans have some issue.
We're unaffiliated voters support them and i'm i'm and then
also they among unaffiliated voters, forty one percent said the
(02:08):
call red was headed in the right direction, but fifty
two percent said wrong track.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
That's definitely good news.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Yeah, yeah, I think I think there's a chance that
we might be more competitive in this selection than we've
been in a long time.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Which leads me to the next point of discussion here.
You know we're going to I say we. I'm putting
together a debate up in northern Colorado, up in Greeley.
You may have heard about it. On January tenth. I
invited what I defined, along with the sponsor of the event,
as the top six candidates. We invited Mark Baisley, Greg Lopez,
Barb Kirkmeyer, Jason Michael, Scott Bottoms, and Victor Marx. Victor
(02:43):
Marx declined to attend. But having said all that, I
think those, by a lot of people's measures, are probably
the top six candidates. What do you think, Dick is,
does that encompass the front runners right now? Or do
you think there's a dark horse out there? And if
those are the top five or six, that is there
a winning combination there that you see?
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Well, I think I agree with your assessment Steve, that
that those are the proverbial front runners at this point.
Now there's still time for somebody else to get in
this race. I don't know who that would be at
this and I doubt that happens. But and you've now
got those candidates who have been out there campaigning around
the state. They're raising money, and I would assume that
(03:27):
that will be the field that really goes forward and
will be competing, that will be seriously competing for the nomination.
I think these debates like the one you're hosting are
really important, Steve. I mean, that's the way the candidates
really sharpen their messages and you get a good feel
(03:48):
if they're really ready to go into the rigors of
a generalation campaign. You know, when I was I ran
both Senator Allard and Bill Owen's campaigns he ran for governor,
and they both had tough primaries against very strong opponents.
They debated on constantly, and those are the primaries. And
I will tell you, having managed those campaigns, it made
(04:10):
Senator Rowlway the better candidates in the general and it
made Bill Owens better candidate. Any candidate who avoids debating
is doing it their service not only to the Republican Party,
but is doing this service to their own campaign.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
You couldn't have said it better. And you know, I
have never been on a debate stage to the degree
that these folks are. But I had a very contested
primary the first time I ran for sheriff, and I
hated going to those debates because it was always, you know,
same questions a lot of times the same crowd. But
you do hone your skills when you're having to debate
tough issues with your opponents, and for someone to skip
(04:46):
out on those opportunities, I think you're right. They're doing
themselves a huge disservice. And I get it. Scheduling's tough,
through campaign promises, our campaign processes. I once had to
cancel an opportunity to go on and African Safari so
that I could so that I could attend a debate
for a sheriff's race. It was a hard decision to make,
(05:06):
but it was the right decision to make, and quite honestly,
I wouldn't change it. And it's just it boggles my
mind if people don't attend those particular events. But when
we're talking about those top six, and I'll name them again,
Mark Basley, Greg Lopez, Barb Kirkmeyer and Jason Michel, Scott
Bottoms and Victor Marx, do you see anyone who's clearly
distancing themselves from the crowd right now. And second to that,
(05:31):
is there a candidate there that you think, hey, that's
the winning combination or potentially the winning combination that you
would annoy early.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Well, it's early. I do think that Barb Kirkmeyer has
already shown that sheet has the capacity to raise money,
which is a huge component to a winning campaign. The
other candidates are going to have to show that. They
all have to file reports for the fourth quarter next
month and we'll see where the where the fundraising stands.
(06:00):
There's something, there's another factor, Steve, that I'm going to
be paying attention to. I will tell you just flat out,
any candidate for governor who says they will harden Tenna
Peters from her prison term cannot win a general election
in Colorado because tied into that is this whole stolen
(06:21):
election conspiracy stuff. And so I got to tell you,
if if I would tell any candidate who has already
gone on the record as saying they would pardon Canna
Peters if their governor of Colorado, they should check it
in now, because they cannot win a general election in Colorado.
And as far as I know, all the candidates you
(06:42):
mentioned have said that.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
They would pardon her.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Only one candidate has said not, and that's a Senator Kirkmeyer.
But to me, that Donald Trump is still very unpopular
in Colorado, and that's just the brutal truth. And the
only one of the ways to set make and the
separation from him with the general election electorate is to
(07:05):
say no, I would not pardon Tina Peters.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
I guess.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
So that's that's going to be amus test.
Speaker 5 (07:10):
Sure, Well, the.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Follow up question that would be then if if if
a Republican candidate says no, I won't pardon Tina Peters,
she's going to do her time, do they lose the
do they lose the support of the Republican base? And
I think that's what they're all trying to navigate, is
there is there another method to answering that question that's
more palatable to both Republicans and unaffiliated I don't.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
I think it's to me, frankly, Steve, I think it's
black and white that either you're you're going to pardon
her or not. And certainly President Trump has made that
the witness test for him. Sure, it really comes down
do Republicans want to have a chance to win a
general election Colorado or not? If they if they don't,
then run out there and have rallies in front of
(07:54):
the prison, then demand or be released if they if
they want a shot at winning a general election for
the first time. Owens was re elected in two thousand
and two the then state position, and move on. Voters
are going to respond to a Republican candidate who talks
about education, about crime, about energy, and about all the
(08:17):
issues that voters care about. They are not going to
vote for a candidate who talks about stolen election conspiracies
and pardoning Tina Peters. That's all there is to it.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
So one more question on this and then we'll go
to break and if I could ask you to stay
for another segment, that'd be great. Is there a difference
in your mind to the voters between pardoning versus commuting
a sentence.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Yeah, I actually think there is, because, for instance, there
are reports that she is in ill health, and I
think the if that is the case, and I've read that,
I don't know if I assume it's true, and if that,
if that becomes a real factor, then I think commuting
her sentence would be something most people would say that
(09:02):
would be appropriate into certain circumstances. But I would also
point everybody to the op ed that was written today
by George Brockler, the mistric attorney in Douglas Coney about
this the Peina Peter's case, and he lays out in
very specific detail why she was convicted and why she
(09:22):
should not be released. And I would I would, I
would refer everybody to read the George Bruckbern's column today
in the Denver Deese.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Perfect. Thank you, Dick, if you will, if you'll stay
through the break with us, and when we come back,
we'll chop up a little bit more of this race
and see if we can get your opinion on exactly
who should leave this race and make things a little
more clear. With that. You're listening to the Dan Capless
Show here on six point thirty k how with Well
Kenny Sheriff Steve Riams as your guest host.
Speaker 5 (09:55):
And now back to the Dan Taplass Show podcast.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Welcome back to the Dan Capleas Show. Here Well Kenny Sheriff,
Steve Reams, and we went to break. We were speaking
with Dick Wadhams, former head of the Colorado Republican Party,
and I'm going to call him the architect of the
campaign for the last Republican governor, Bill Owens here in
the state of Colorado. And we've been trying to get
Dick's opinion on where do we stand with this current
batch of Republicans that are running to try to be
(10:20):
the next Republican governor in the state of Colorado. And
we went to break we were discussing the Tina Peters
issue and if someone were to pardon Tina Peters, or
say they're going to pardon Tina Peters, in your opinion,
they should just drop out of the race. Not to
get too far over our skis, Dick, but of the
six candidates that I named as the top six, Mark
(10:43):
Baisley said yes, he would pardon Tina Peters. Greg Lopez
same thing. Barb Kirkmeyer at a debate in Loveland said no,
not without more information. Jason Mike Sel said yes, but
only because a sentence was excessive. Scott Bottoms is a yes,
and Victor Marx made the comment that he would commute
the sentence. So if that, if, if your theory holds true.
(11:05):
Basically what I'm taking from this is at least four
of these top six you believe have already have already
cooked their own goose. If that's not putting words into
your mouth.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Yeah, that's how That's how I would judge it to
Steve to be honest.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
I mean, I just.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Think that it becomes kind of a litmus test for
for unaffiliated voters that that they will they will, they
will be, they will reject that they will so well.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
So when we're talking about other issues in Colorado, affordability, crime,
you know, road conditions, what do you think you know,
we're talking about the litmus test for Republicans. What is
the issue that, in your mind is the is the
most pivotal issue for gaining those unaffiliated voters and also
resonating for resonating with Republicans.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
You know, that's that's a great question, see, because that
is precisely what what Bill Lewins did in nineteen ninety
eight when he became the first Republican governor to be
elected in twenty four years. He was no sure thing.
In nineteen ninety eight, Governor Roy Romer was leaving office
with seventy percent approval rating, so it wasn't like a
democratic governor was very unpopular. Owens was running against the
(12:16):
lieutenant governor under Romer, so she was running under in
kind of the glow of the Roman administration. I'll tell
you what Owens did. He put together an agenda that
appealed to the Republican bay while at the same time
rolling right into the general election and appealed to unaffiliated voters.
Because I don't know, some people, amazingly to me, think
(12:37):
that Colorado was a red state back then, it was not.
We had lost sixty consecutive governor's elections, we had won
only three of eight US Senate elections approaching nineteen ninety eight.
And so the bottom line is that he put together
an agenda to cut taxes, to reform education, and to
improve transportation, and he won a primary with those issues,
(13:01):
and he rolled right in and won the governorship. And
now he's the only Republican governor in fifty years. What
I would tell every one of these candidates, if they
want to win an election in Colorado, they need to
figure out what they stand for and develop a clear
agenda that voters can get their arms around, because and
(13:21):
mine's around, because voters know governors have an impact on
their lives.
Speaker 5 (13:26):
Absolutely, and you've.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Got to be saying you got to say more than oh,
I'm just going to be a great leader. That ain't
going to cut it. You've got to say I will
do these things on these issues, and this is why
I'm running for governor.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more on that particular issue.
But you know, there's nothing like bringing Dick Wadhams on
a radio show to light the text screen up and
you know how that works. But sometimes your opinions aren't
that popular with the Trump crowd or the far right crowd.
But this text you'll appreciate. It says can we get
bill Owens back into office? He's still younger than Trump,
(14:00):
that they still look at him as a viable candidate.
You know, there was some talk earlier on I think
it was yesterday when Heidi was on the show, that
the establishment, if you will use the air quotes, is
the problem with the Republican Party, and oftentimes bill Owens
is looked at as part of that establishment. I think
sometimes people look at you, Dick is part of that establishment.
(14:20):
Do you see the same concerns that the old guard
has just continued to do things the traditional way and
that just can't win in Colorado or do you think
it's truly a matter of we haven't had the right
candidate with the right sauce since Owen's left.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
You know, I heard, I have heard Heidi say that,
and I got to tell you I kind of resent it, frankly, Steve,
because I will tell you that isn't that dismiss of
the accomplishment of Governor Owens not only winning the elections,
but being a very popular governor who implemented the three
issues I talked about. Then he was re elected with
(14:56):
a huge amount. And since he got elected, and we
have several we've had, I think, what are we up
to now, five elections for governor and lost every one
of them. And among those five campaigns, Steve, we've had
a Tea Party candidate nominated, We've had a mega candidate nominated,
that being Heighty herself, and we've had an estably a
couple of establishment candidates run and moves for for her
(15:20):
to blame the part of the party that actually had
some wins behind it. I mean it just I will
tell you what I do know is this, I know
how you win a tough election in Colorado. This estate
has never been easy for a Republican. It's never been
a red state. We've got three great examples of how
to win Bill Owens, Wayne Allard, and Corey Gardner in
(15:42):
the last twenty years or twenty five years, and the
way they ran their campaigns and the way they won
is remarkably similar.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
Runs.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Run, have very clear agendas, run very aggressively against the Democrats,
provide very strong contrasts, be very discipline, and how to
in running your campaign. And that's how to win in Colorado.
And it's not it's not the establishment. It's and frankly,
see the last ten years since Trump has been so
unpopular in Colorado and the polls proven that it has
(16:15):
pulled down Republican candidates. Now, I know mega people don't
want to hear that, but it is the truth. And uh,
that's just one of the problems we have in Colorado
right now. And somehow a Republican has to get past that. Well,
that's that's the challenge right now.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
If we don't end up with a quote, yeah it's going,
there's no way I can keep up with all these
texts if it's not a mega candidate as you described,
and it's not, and it's a candidate that says, hey,
I'm not gonna I'm not gonna pardon Tina Peters, Well,
that will Will we see a massive undervote from Republicans though,
(16:51):
and I think I've kind of asked you that in
a different way, But will we see an undervote from
Republicans that'll cost the race anyway?
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Well, if they want to, if they want to lose
another a general edtion, I guess that's what will happen.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
But what I do know what I do know, Steve,
I know.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
How you win an election in Colorado. I've done it.
I did it with Bill Owens, I did it with
Dwayne Allard. And you have a clear agenda, run an
aggressive campaign, strong contrasts with the Democrats. Don't let them
get away with anything. We didn't and we won those elections. Now,
if mega people don't want to hear that, I don't care.
But that's how we won, so we can still win today.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
I think you're right. I think there is a path
just a quick couple of seconds. How much money does
it take to win this race? How much money does
it take for a governor to win this race? Well,
we got like ten seconds fifty.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Frankly, I don't know, Steve, because a lot of that
is outside money.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
So Dick, thanks for being on with us. I couldn't
appreciate it more. You're listening to the Dan Caplas Show
here on six pointy K with Well Kenny Sheriff Steve Riams.
Speaker 5 (18:06):
You're listening to the Dan Kaplis Show podcast.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Fortunate enough through the break here to call on one
of our trusted sources for information, and mostly because he
was mentioned by our last guest, Dick Wadhams, for having
penned an article that's appearing in the Denver Gazette. It's
titled Peters earned her prison time. The GOP must move
on and that's mister George Brockler. George, how are you
doing this evening?
Speaker 6 (18:30):
Good Darren? Thanks for having me on. Uh wait, it's.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Funny, funny guy. You know I was going to tell
you I put your booster seat over in the corner
so when you come back to do the show next time,
you'll be able to reach the microphone.
Speaker 6 (18:44):
As long as it has as long as it has
the drink holder.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Well, of course it does with the zippy cup.
Speaker 6 (18:49):
Yes, thanks for having me on to talk about this.
Let me say this, I've gotten really good feedback from
friends of ours, you know, and the people that you know.
But at the same time, I'm telling myself, you know what,
I probably just bought a primary or I probably probably bought,
(19:09):
you know, some sort of social media firestorm where people
are like, oh my god, you can't say stuff like
that about mother Tina, sister Tina.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
I don't talk like that. I don't know if you
realize this, George, but you're kind of known for saying
things that most people go to said.
Speaker 6 (19:24):
That that's true. So while that was good as da,
I don't know what it's like now.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Well, so tell us about this article. I mean, you
kind of the title says a lot, but what inspired
you to write this?
Speaker 6 (19:38):
And you know, we are yeah, thank you. It's the
problem for us, for Republicans is we can't seem to
shake this thing. And in part we can't seem to
shake it because President keeps getting involved and he keeps
amplifying his disagreement with not only Governor Polis, and he
can do that all day long. I don't care about that.
I disagree with most of that, but he starts to
(20:01):
attack the system and it fuels these other people that
come in and they don't just say, hey, this case
or this case, they attack the court system. And now
they call Dan Rubinstein he's corrupt, and the judge is corrupt,
and the system is corrupting all these other things. And
I got to the point of saying, listen, first off,
this idea that the president has any sort of authority
(20:22):
to affect a statewide conviction is cuckoo for cocopus. Can
we not do that? And oh, by the way, let's
close the book on this thing. Right. You know this,
and I know this. A lot of people don't. Tina
has a bunch of different ways out of prison. One
of them is to apply for clemency from the governor.
I don't think she's done it. Another one is to
seek some sort of a compassionate release based on medical condition.
(20:43):
As far as I know, she hasn't done that either.
But if she does nothing, as long as she doesn't
shank her sell me you and I know she's going
to be parolled into community corrections probably within the next
six to nine months, and then she'll be relieved on
parole without probably much supervision about eighteen months after that.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Yeah, I agree with you. I think that's the pathway
that she's probably on right now. Do you You kind
of said it, but do you see any way that
new case law is made by what Trump's done in
saying he's issuing a full pardon. You know, does this
end up in the Supreme Court? Does this end up
creating a new body of law? If you will, Do
(21:28):
you see it getting there?
Speaker 6 (21:30):
No, and we shouldn't want it to be there. If
you're a conservative, if you're a Republican, if you're someone
that believes that states are more than just subsidiaries of
the federal government, and we are the states created the
federal government, not the other way around. If you believe that,
you don't want any president to have the ability to
reach into a state and decide on state court local matters.
(21:50):
This is what I want to see happen. And you
can imagine on this case, all of the people that
we know that would be supportive of yeah, free Tina
and all this other stuff, would lose their minds if
a Biden or a Hairis or a Walls or a
fill in the blank reached in and did something to
someone that we think was rightfully convicted, we should resist
any attempt to erase that barrier between the state and
(22:13):
the feds.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Well, in your article, you talk about how Republicans have
kind of moved away from being that party that supports
the rule of law. And this is in using this
as an example. Do you think that ever comes back
or we just as the party just thrown caution to
the wind in that particular category in.
Speaker 6 (22:29):
Your mind, you know, it's a good question. I worry
about that, and I worry about it not just for
our party, but I worry about it for our jurors,
because I think we're rapidly getting to the place where
whether a judge gives a choice of evils instruction or not,
jurors begin to think in terms of jury nullification, like, well,
of course they broke the law, but they had a
(22:50):
really good reason to do it, and I like that
reason more than I like the law, and therefore I'm
not going to hold this person accountable. If we get
to that point, man, we might as well just erase
all the laws, because we can just say, what was
your intention?
Speaker 3 (23:02):
If we're just going to.
Speaker 6 (23:03):
Judge intentions, because the outcome has to be something that
we try to regulate when it comes to hurting another person,
we can't say you shouldn't do this, but if you
have a really good reason for it, Jerry might let
you go and I think that's my concern is that
it won't just be the Republican Party that doesn't go
back there, It'll be future jurors that move in that
direction well.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
And to tie this into the issue that I was
covering in the first hour, we had the victim of
Ephron Debisson and kind of talking about how the criminal
justice system failed that victim. You know, luckily he survived,
he's getting his life back to as normal as he can.
But we've got several incidents in Colorado where we've seen
the criminal justice system kind of upside down when it
(23:45):
comes to mental competency and whatnot. And I wish as
much energy that's been put towards Tina Peters would be
put towards those issues. And that's where Republican That's the
space that Republicans used to occupy. But it seems as
if we don't have that same fervor, that same energy
(24:05):
to go out and attack the things that deserve to
be attacked. Do you see that?
Speaker 6 (24:11):
Yes, you are absolutely right, and I can't even though
I've voted for our president three times and I feel
so glad they won this last time. I got to
tell you it starts at the top, and I think
what we've seen is a real move away from I
feel bound by the law instead. I think what we've seen,
(24:31):
and it's in the state, it's at the local level
some places, but it's definitely at the executive at the
federal level, is to look at the law as either
something I can use to accomplish my goals or an
impediment to me, and I'll either ignore it or just
work around it. And that kind of a thing when
it takes place at that top level, when we don't
impose some sort of self restraint in how we treat
the law, it doesn't take long to get to a
(24:53):
generation where people are like, the law is a pretty
good suggestion as opposed to the law is the rule law.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Yeah. Well, and I want to ask one more question
before we let you go. But you hinted to something
that you know you're worried about where jurors stand on
this these types of issues. You are the DA in
a mostly a conservative county. If that mindset is starting
to change, that's got to be difficult for you to
look at how you're going to select a jury. But
(25:19):
since the laws have gotten so weak in Colorado and
now you know, you kind of have this differing opinion
of what a conviction should really you know, stem from
how much harder is it to convict persons of crime
now compared to say, fifteen years ago or twenty years ago,
when you were when you were younger in this position.
Speaker 6 (25:40):
Well, the things that make it harder to achieve justice,
I won't say just get convictions to achieve justice, let's
say become a lot of these changes in the substance
of law that make it so that your guys go
out and kick butt. They make the arrest, they investigate
the crime, they put a great case together, the das
run it into the court and they stick the landing.
Right get then, But because of what the legislature has done,
(26:02):
the outcome is, hey, you're on probation. You know, that's
a tough thing right there. The things we've done with
bail and bond to make it a revolving door at
the jail front, you know, put us at risk constantly.
All of those things make it harder and harder to
really get to a place where we feel like we're
being safe. And if anyone has any doubts about how
(26:25):
a fender friendly, the legislature is. If you're bored, you're
having trouble sleeping, just kind of link into the website
that takes you to the House Judiciary Committee hearings and
just listen to some of these legislators banter and you'll
be like, what planet am I on? Where am I?
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Yeah, it'll make you sick. Well, George, if you want,
you can throw your text in your cell phone number
out here so these Texters can just text you directly
about your article. I mean, I'm happy to give you
that option.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Very positive.
Speaker 6 (26:55):
I'm sure I think I tried. I tried to get
you the next early on. By the way, I'm sure
you could identify which one it was. But I just
leave you that little nugget from about four oh three
I got you.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
I'll find it. I'm sure I know exactly where it
came from. Hey, by the way, your booster ced is safe.
So thanks for coming on the show, George, and thanks man.
Thanks for taking all the heat with your article. We
appreciate it, of course.
Speaker 6 (27:19):
Thanks and thanks Ryan.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Talk to you guys later. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas to
you as well. We'll go to break when we come back,
we'll try to get through some of these texts and
maybe grab a couple of phone calls. You're listening to
the Dan Caplas Show here on six pint thirty k
How with Well Kenny Sriff, Steve Roams.
Speaker 5 (27:38):
And now back to the Dan Taplas Show podcast.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Welcome back to the Dan Capla Show here with Well
Kenny Sheriff Steve Reams as your guest host, and just
wrapping up to day. But let's go straight to the
phone lines if we could. We've had David from Pueblo
waiting for a little while to talk about the governor's race. David,
how you doing tonight?
Speaker 4 (27:54):
I'm great, Thanks for taking call.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
You bet, what do you have to say about the
governor's race?
Speaker 4 (28:02):
You know it's not looking real good. But you know
what I will say your guest earlier, mister Wadhams. Yeah,
I think he's a little old school that I don't
really know him, but I'm gonna say he's a Rhino
and I'm guessing he's anti Trump just by listening to I.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Think he would tell you in his own words that
he is not a fan of President Trump, especially for
his personality. But you know that's for him to decide. Yes,
I don't think he's a huge fan of Trump.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
Yeah, that's okay. That's the very first time I heard him.
I can read right through it. There's a bigger silent
majority here than people want to admit. And George Brockler,
I wanted to get to him the other day. I
wanted to look into a case, and maybe you could
look into Eric Hold. He's a fire chief in Florisa
and Colorado. He's trying to follow a lawsuit. He as
the state on our machines, our elections. And this goes
(28:56):
back to twenty two or twenty three, I should say,
actually May of twenty three. Yes, proof of what they're
up to, okay, And everyone says there's no facts and
he can't get a fair jury and tell it Taylor
County either. The DA's mistreating him there. But oh, I
got another candidate for you for the government of race
By possibly, so you might want to reach out to him.
(29:17):
He claims he's going to make a decision at ten days.
He's a little firebrand, you know him.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Oh you're talking about Joe Oltman. Yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 4 (29:25):
He saw his podcast saying that just two days ago.
He's thinking he's going to make a decision at ten days.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Yeah, I think he's talking about doing that the day
after Christmas or on Christmas Day, So you know, we'll
see if he becomes the governor's candidate. I think I'll
have him on, or Ryan or Dan or somebody will
have him on. You know, I don't have a certainty
and what I'm going to be hosting the show, but
we'll keep an eye out if he becomes an official candidate.
You know, we'll cross that bridge when it comes.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
Well, I guess that your deal. And by the way,
the kirk Meyer situation regarding Tina Peters, it's a typical
politician position. I need more information. Yeah, and by the way,
the silent majority is much greater. Those elections have been
manipulated for the past ten years.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
David, I appreciate all that that that you're filling in,
but I want to make sure we get to the
other caller. Here at the Now Show podcast, we have
Becky from Colorado Springs. Becky, I think you wanted to
make some comments about Tina Peters.
Speaker 7 (30:23):
Yes, I had a question, and I think this still
remains an unknown. It's my understanding that states are required
to hold voting records for twenty six months of any
federal election, and that went and keep that safer fact
(30:44):
and be able to show it to the federal government
if asked, I got reimaging that Jana Griswold directed would
have wiped out and then therefore abrogated federal law. Well,
I understand that Tina is considered guilty under state law,
(31:07):
while in her view, was trying to comply with federal law.
Can you tell me about federal law requirements of holding
voting right?
Speaker 2 (31:15):
I certainly cannot. That is not my area of expertise,
and I wouldn't even try to try to walk through that.
You know, I've listened to all the arguments back and forth.
I simply I'm not an expert in election law. You
know I can. I can try to contact some people
and maybe get them on the show next time I'm hosting.
But I think I think what you're hinting to is
we have and you're not even hinting to it. You're
(31:37):
kind of saying it directly. You know, Tina Peters did
what she did in an attempt to say, hey, I
don't think that this election went exactly right. But on
the other side of the equation, you've got Jenna Griswold,
who has made some very huge mistakes and hasn't been
held accountable for it. And I think that's where the
frustration I have for the election process comes, is that
(31:58):
it doesn't feel like justice is being applied equally. And again,
what Jenna Griswold's done, maybe that can't be prosecuted in
Mesa County, maybe that has to be prosecuted in a
different county, but it's not even being examined for prosecution.
And I think that's a huge point of frustration for
a lot of folks, whether you're a mega person or
just a Republican or a conservative, I think it gets
(32:22):
under your skin. And I totally understand where you're coming from, Becky,
I just don't have the answers when it comes to
the exacts on how long ballots have to be held
in those kind of things.
Speaker 7 (32:33):
And I think that Tina supposedly making vulnerable Colorado and
also federal data solar crime, but Griswold made vulnerable by
the biosystem all of the passwords. Certainly, to me, it's
(32:53):
much more of a high crime, high level of impact,
and deserved should be actually examined, put before a indictment
and let's see where that goes, because that was fully
open for mine.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Well, it wouldn't hurt my feelings at all. But Becky,
thanks for calling in. We're just gonna have to wrap
up the show here pretty quickly, so I want to
grab just a couple of these texts here. You know,
some of you are are definitely not fans of Dick
Wadhams and kind of made the comment that you know,
his time has passed. But I think this one, this
one's got a little bit of relevance to read. It says,
(33:30):
if he's the election wizard that he makes himself out
to be, why doesn't he pick a candidate and manage
her or him to a landslide win instead of writing
what they say, fiction articles in the paper. You know,
I don't know, maybe Dick's got a candidate out there
he can champion in the future. Time we'll tell all
that being said, Thank you guys for listening in, Thanks
(33:51):
for blowing up the text line. I'm sorry I didn't
get to all of them, but it's been a pleasure
being with you here on the Dan Kapli Show six
point thirty k how with Well Kenny Sheriff Steve rings
This is Dan Capless and welcome to today's online podcast
edition of The Dan Caplis Show. Please be sure to
give us a five star rating if you'd be so kind,
and to subscribe, download, and listen to the show every
single day on your favorite podcast platform.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Our two of two today and with you as your
guest host as well, Kenny Shriff Steve Reims filling in today.
I had George Brockler on Tuesday, Heidi Ganal yesterday, and
you'll have Christy Burton Brown tomorrow. So kind of a
mixed bag of fill ins this week. I think Dan
was actually on his show on Monday, so you got
it for at least one day this week. And who knows,
(00:35):
there'd be some more fill in stuff. I'm sure through
the holidays and whatnot. So I'm sure i'll be back
with you in some form or fashion in the days
to come. But we went from one topic of talking
about House Built ten thirty four in that first hour
to now, let's get back to talking about some stuff
that we've been covering in previous shows, and Ryan's been
covering on his show as well, and that's the governor's
(00:57):
primary race, the Republican side here, I wanted to bring
on a special guest, mister Dick Wadhams, so that he
could tell us kind of his take on where this
where this political juggernaut, if you will, is going, and
if he sees a clear winner starting to emerge. So, Dick,
thanks for being on with us, and let's hear your
opinion on where this whole in mess is going in
(01:17):
the in the Republican gubernatorial primary.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Well, let me let me start, Steve by saying that
I actually have a degree of optimism that Colorado Republicans
could be competitive in this governor's race next year. Okay, there,
we saw a poll about two months ago, a month
ago that showed that Poe was kicking, Looper and Bennett
are all underwater, that a majority of Colorado voters think
(01:46):
the state is on the wrong track. And then a
poll came out this week that pulled unaffiliated voters and
it clearly shows that that that Republicans have some issue.
We're unaffiliated voters support them and i'm i'm and then
also they among unaffiliated voters, forty one percent said the
(02:08):
call red was headed in the right direction, but fifty
two percent said wrong track.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
That's definitely good news.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Yeah, yeah, I think I think there's a chance that
we might be more competitive in this selection than we've
been in a long time.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Which leads me to the next point of discussion here.
You know we're going to I say we. I'm putting
together a debate up in northern Colorado, up in Greeley.
You may have heard about it. On January tenth. I
invited what I defined, along with the sponsor of the event,
as the top six candidates. We invited Mark Baisley, Greg Lopez,
Barb Kirkmeyer, Jason Michael, Scott Bottoms, and Victor Marx. Victor
(02:43):
Marx declined to attend. But having said all that, I
think those, by a lot of people's measures, are probably
the top six candidates. What do you think, Dick is,
does that encompass the front runners right now? Or do
you think there's a dark horse out there? And if
those are the top five or six, that is there
a winning combination there that you see?
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Well, I think I agree with your assessment Steve, that
that those are the proverbial front runners at this point.
Now there's still time for somebody else to get in
this race. I don't know who that would be at
this and I doubt that happens. But and you've now
got those candidates who have been out there campaigning around
the state. They're raising money, and I would assume that
(03:27):
that will be the field that really goes forward and
will be competing, that will be seriously competing for the nomination.
I think these debates like the one you're hosting are
really important, Steve. I mean, that's the way the candidates
really sharpen their messages and you get a good feel
(03:48):
if they're really ready to go into the rigors of
a generalation campaign. You know, when I was I ran
both Senator Allard and Bill Owen's campaigns he ran for governor,
and they both had tough primaries against very strong opponents.
They debated on constantly, and those are the primaries. And
I will tell you, having managed those campaigns, it made
(04:10):
Senator Rowlway the better candidates in the general and it
made Bill Owens better candidate. Any candidate who avoids debating
is doing it their service not only to the Republican Party,
but is doing this service to their own campaign.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
You couldn't have said it better. And you know, I
have never been on a debate stage to the degree
that these folks are. But I had a very contested
primary the first time I ran for sheriff, and I
hated going to those debates because it was always, you know,
same questions a lot of times the same crowd. But
you do hone your skills when you're having to debate
tough issues with your opponents, and for someone to skip
(04:46):
out on those opportunities, I think you're right. They're doing
themselves a huge disservice. And I get it. Scheduling's tough,
through campaign promises, our campaign processes. I once had to
cancel an opportunity to go on and African Safari so
that I could so that I could attend a debate
for a sheriff's race. It was a hard decision to make,
(05:06):
but it was the right decision to make, and quite honestly,
I wouldn't change it. And it's just it boggles my
mind if people don't attend those particular events. But when
we're talking about those top six, and I'll name them again,
Mark Basley, Greg Lopez, Barb Kirkmeyer and Jason Michel, Scott
Bottoms and Victor Marx, do you see anyone who's clearly
distancing themselves from the crowd right now. And second to that,
(05:31):
is there a candidate there that you think, hey, that's
the winning combination or potentially the winning combination that you
would annoy early.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Well, it's early. I do think that Barb Kirkmeyer has
already shown that sheet has the capacity to raise money,
which is a huge component to a winning campaign. The
other candidates are going to have to show that. They
all have to file reports for the fourth quarter next
month and we'll see where the where the fundraising stands.
(06:00):
There's something, there's another factor, Steve, that I'm going to
be paying attention to. I will tell you just flat out,
any candidate for governor who says they will harden Tenna
Peters from her prison term cannot win a general election
in Colorado because tied into that is this whole stolen
(06:21):
election conspiracy stuff. And so I got to tell you,
if if I would tell any candidate who has already
gone on the record as saying they would pardon Canna
Peters if their governor of Colorado, they should check it
in now, because they cannot win a general election in Colorado.
And as far as I know, all the candidates you
(06:42):
mentioned have said that.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
They would pardon her.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Only one candidate has said not, and that's a Senator Kirkmeyer.
But to me, that Donald Trump is still very unpopular
in Colorado, and that's just the brutal truth. And the
only one of the ways to set make and the
separation from him with the general election electorate is to
(07:05):
say no, I would not pardon Tina Peters.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
I guess.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
So that's that's going to be amus test.
Speaker 5 (07:10):
Sure, Well, the.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Follow up question that would be then if if if
a Republican candidate says no, I won't pardon Tina Peters,
she's going to do her time, do they lose the
do they lose the support of the Republican base? And
I think that's what they're all trying to navigate, is
there is there another method to answering that question that's
more palatable to both Republicans and unaffiliated I don't.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
I think it's to me, frankly, Steve, I think it's
black and white that either you're you're going to pardon
her or not. And certainly President Trump has made that
the witness test for him. Sure, it really comes down
do Republicans want to have a chance to win a
general election Colorado or not? If they if they don't,
then run out there and have rallies in front of
(07:54):
the prison, then demand or be released if they if
they want a shot at winning a general election for
the first time. Owens was re elected in two thousand
and two the then state position, and move on. Voters
are going to respond to a Republican candidate who talks
about education, about crime, about energy, and about all the
(08:17):
issues that voters care about. They are not going to
vote for a candidate who talks about stolen election conspiracies
and pardoning Tina Peters. That's all there is to it.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
So one more question on this and then we'll go
to break and if I could ask you to stay
for another segment, that'd be great. Is there a difference
in your mind to the voters between pardoning versus commuting
a sentence.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Yeah, I actually think there is, because, for instance, there
are reports that she is in ill health, and I
think the if that is the case, and I've read that,
I don't know if I assume it's true, and if that,
if that becomes a real factor, then I think commuting
her sentence would be something most people would say that
(09:02):
would be appropriate into certain circumstances. But I would also
point everybody to the op ed that was written today
by George Brockler, the mistric attorney in Douglas Coney about
this the Peina Peter's case, and he lays out in
very specific detail why she was convicted and why she
(09:22):
should not be released. And I would I would, I
would refer everybody to read the George Bruckbern's column today
in the Denver Deese.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Perfect. Thank you, Dick, if you will, if you'll stay
through the break with us, and when we come back,
we'll chop up a little bit more of this race
and see if we can get your opinion on exactly
who should leave this race and make things a little
more clear. With that. You're listening to the Dan Capless
Show here on six point thirty k how with Well
Kenny Sheriff Steve Riams as your guest host.
Speaker 5 (09:55):
And now back to the Dan Taplass Show podcast.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Welcome back to the Dan Capleas Show. Here Well Kenny Sheriff,
Steve Reams, and we went to break. We were speaking
with Dick Wadhams, former head of the Colorado Republican Party,
and I'm going to call him the architect of the
campaign for the last Republican governor, Bill Owens here in
the state of Colorado. And we've been trying to get
Dick's opinion on where do we stand with this current
batch of Republicans that are running to try to be
(10:20):
the next Republican governor in the state of Colorado. And
we went to break we were discussing the Tina Peters
issue and if someone were to pardon Tina Peters, or
say they're going to pardon Tina Peters, in your opinion,
they should just drop out of the race. Not to
get too far over our skis, Dick, but of the
six candidates that I named as the top six, Mark
(10:43):
Baisley said yes, he would pardon Tina Peters. Greg Lopez
same thing. Barb Kirkmeyer at a debate in Loveland said no,
not without more information. Jason Mike Sel said yes, but
only because a sentence was excessive. Scott Bottoms is a yes,
and Victor Marx made the comment that he would commute
the sentence. So if that, if, if your theory holds true.
(11:05):
Basically what I'm taking from this is at least four
of these top six you believe have already have already
cooked their own goose. If that's not putting words into
your mouth.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Yeah, that's how That's how I would judge it to
Steve to be honest.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
I mean, I just.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Think that it becomes kind of a litmus test for
for unaffiliated voters that that they will they will, they
will be, they will reject that they will so well.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
So when we're talking about other issues in Colorado, affordability, crime,
you know, road conditions, what do you think you know,
we're talking about the litmus test for Republicans. What is
the issue that, in your mind is the is the
most pivotal issue for gaining those unaffiliated voters and also
resonating for resonating with Republicans.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
You know, that's that's a great question, see, because that
is precisely what what Bill Lewins did in nineteen ninety
eight when he became the first Republican governor to be
elected in twenty four years. He was no sure thing.
In nineteen ninety eight, Governor Roy Romer was leaving office
with seventy percent approval rating, so it wasn't like a
democratic governor was very unpopular. Owens was running against the
(12:16):
lieutenant governor under Romer, so she was running under in
kind of the glow of the Roman administration. I'll tell
you what Owens did. He put together an agenda that
appealed to the Republican bay while at the same time
rolling right into the general election and appealed to unaffiliated voters.
Because I don't know, some people, amazingly to me, think
(12:37):
that Colorado was a red state back then, it was not.
We had lost sixty consecutive governor's elections, we had won
only three of eight US Senate elections approaching nineteen ninety eight.
And so the bottom line is that he put together
an agenda to cut taxes, to reform education, and to
improve transportation, and he won a primary with those issues,
(13:01):
and he rolled right in and won the governorship. And
now he's the only Republican governor in fifty years. What
I would tell every one of these candidates, if they
want to win an election in Colorado, they need to
figure out what they stand for and develop a clear
agenda that voters can get their arms around, because and
(13:21):
mine's around, because voters know governors have an impact on
their lives.
Speaker 5 (13:26):
Absolutely, and you've.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Got to be saying you got to say more than oh,
I'm just going to be a great leader. That ain't
going to cut it. You've got to say I will
do these things on these issues, and this is why
I'm running for governor.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more on that particular issue.
But you know, there's nothing like bringing Dick Wadhams on
a radio show to light the text screen up and
you know how that works. But sometimes your opinions aren't
that popular with the Trump crowd or the far right crowd.
But this text you'll appreciate. It says can we get
bill Owens back into office? He's still younger than Trump,
(14:00):
that they still look at him as a viable candidate.
You know, there was some talk earlier on I think
it was yesterday when Heidi was on the show, that
the establishment, if you will use the air quotes, is
the problem with the Republican Party, and oftentimes bill Owens
is looked at as part of that establishment. I think
sometimes people look at you, Dick is part of that establishment.
(14:20):
Do you see the same concerns that the old guard
has just continued to do things the traditional way and
that just can't win in Colorado or do you think
it's truly a matter of we haven't had the right
candidate with the right sauce since Owen's left.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
You know, I heard, I have heard Heidi say that,
and I got to tell you I kind of resent it, frankly, Steve,
because I will tell you that isn't that dismiss of
the accomplishment of Governor Owens not only winning the elections,
but being a very popular governor who implemented the three
issues I talked about. Then he was re elected with
(14:56):
a huge amount. And since he got elected, and we
have several we've had, I think, what are we up
to now, five elections for governor and lost every one
of them. And among those five campaigns, Steve, we've had
a Tea Party candidate nominated, We've had a mega candidate nominated,
that being Heighty herself, and we've had an estably a
couple of establishment candidates run and moves for for her
(15:20):
to blame the part of the party that actually had
some wins behind it. I mean it just I will
tell you what I do know is this, I know
how you win a tough election in Colorado. This estate
has never been easy for a Republican. It's never been
a red state. We've got three great examples of how
to win Bill Owens, Wayne Allard, and Corey Gardner in
(15:42):
the last twenty years or twenty five years, and the
way they ran their campaigns and the way they won
is remarkably similar.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
Runs.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Run, have very clear agendas, run very aggressively against the Democrats,
provide very strong contrasts, be very discipline, and how to
in running your campaign. And that's how to win in Colorado.
And it's not it's not the establishment. It's and frankly,
see the last ten years since Trump has been so
unpopular in Colorado and the polls proven that it has
(16:15):
pulled down Republican candidates. Now, I know mega people don't
want to hear that, but it is the truth. And uh,
that's just one of the problems we have in Colorado
right now. And somehow a Republican has to get past that. Well,
that's that's the challenge right now.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
If we don't end up with a quote, yeah it's going,
there's no way I can keep up with all these
texts if it's not a mega candidate as you described,
and it's not, and it's a candidate that says, hey,
I'm not gonna I'm not gonna pardon Tina Peters, Well,
that will Will we see a massive undervote from Republicans though,
(16:51):
and I think I've kind of asked you that in
a different way, But will we see an undervote from
Republicans that'll cost the race anyway?
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Well, if they want to, if they want to lose
another a general edtion, I guess that's what will happen.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
But what I do know what I do know, Steve,
I know.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
How you win an election in Colorado. I've done it.
I did it with Bill Owens, I did it with
Dwayne Allard. And you have a clear agenda, run an
aggressive campaign, strong contrasts with the Democrats. Don't let them
get away with anything. We didn't and we won those elections. Now,
if mega people don't want to hear that, I don't care.
But that's how we won, so we can still win today.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
I think you're right. I think there is a path
just a quick couple of seconds. How much money does
it take to win this race? How much money does
it take for a governor to win this race? Well,
we got like ten seconds fifty.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Frankly, I don't know, Steve, because a lot of that
is outside money.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
So Dick, thanks for being on with us. I couldn't
appreciate it more. You're listening to the Dan Caplas Show
here on six pointy K with Well Kenny Sheriff Steve Riams.
Speaker 5 (18:06):
You're listening to the Dan Kaplis Show podcast.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Fortunate enough through the break here to call on one
of our trusted sources for information, and mostly because he
was mentioned by our last guest, Dick Wadhams, for having
penned an article that's appearing in the Denver Gazette. It's
titled Peters earned her prison time. The GOP must move
on and that's mister George Brockler. George, how are you
doing this evening?
Speaker 6 (18:30):
Good Darren? Thanks for having me on. Uh wait, it's.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Funny, funny guy. You know I was going to tell
you I put your booster seat over in the corner
so when you come back to do the show next time,
you'll be able to reach the microphone.
Speaker 6 (18:44):
As long as it has as long as it has
the drink holder.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Well, of course it does with the zippy cup.
Speaker 6 (18:49):
Yes, thanks for having me on to talk about this.
Let me say this, I've gotten really good feedback from
friends of ours, you know, and the people that you know.
But at the same time, I'm telling myself, you know what,
I probably just bought a primary or I probably probably bought,
(19:09):
you know, some sort of social media firestorm where people
are like, oh my god, you can't say stuff like
that about mother Tina, sister Tina.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
I don't talk like that. I don't know if you
realize this, George, but you're kind of known for saying
things that most people go to said.
Speaker 6 (19:24):
That that's true. So while that was good as da,
I don't know what it's like now.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Well, so tell us about this article. I mean, you
kind of the title says a lot, but what inspired
you to write this?
Speaker 6 (19:38):
And you know, we are yeah, thank you. It's the
problem for us, for Republicans is we can't seem to
shake this thing. And in part we can't seem to
shake it because President keeps getting involved and he keeps
amplifying his disagreement with not only Governor Polis, and he
can do that all day long. I don't care about that.
I disagree with most of that, but he starts to
(20:01):
attack the system and it fuels these other people that
come in and they don't just say, hey, this case
or this case, they attack the court system. And now
they call Dan Rubinstein he's corrupt, and the judge is corrupt,
and the system is corrupting all these other things. And
I got to the point of saying, listen, first off,
this idea that the president has any sort of authority
(20:22):
to affect a statewide conviction is cuckoo for cocopus. Can
we not do that? And oh, by the way, let's
close the book on this thing. Right. You know this,
and I know this. A lot of people don't. Tina
has a bunch of different ways out of prison. One
of them is to apply for clemency from the governor.
I don't think she's done it. Another one is to
seek some sort of a compassionate release based on medical condition.
(20:43):
As far as I know, she hasn't done that either.
But if she does nothing, as long as she doesn't
shank her sell me you and I know she's going
to be parolled into community corrections probably within the next
six to nine months, and then she'll be relieved on
parole without probably much supervision about eighteen months after that.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Yeah, I agree with you. I think that's the pathway
that she's probably on right now. Do you You kind
of said it, but do you see any way that
new case law is made by what Trump's done in
saying he's issuing a full pardon. You know, does this
end up in the Supreme Court? Does this end up
creating a new body of law? If you will, Do
(21:28):
you see it getting there?
Speaker 6 (21:30):
No, and we shouldn't want it to be there. If
you're a conservative, if you're a Republican, if you're someone
that believes that states are more than just subsidiaries of
the federal government, and we are the states created the
federal government, not the other way around. If you believe that,
you don't want any president to have the ability to
reach into a state and decide on state court local matters.
(21:50):
This is what I want to see happen. And you
can imagine on this case, all of the people that
we know that would be supportive of yeah, free Tina
and all this other stuff, would lose their minds if
a Biden or a Hairis or a Walls or a
fill in the blank reached in and did something to
someone that we think was rightfully convicted, we should resist
any attempt to erase that barrier between the state and
(22:13):
the feds.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Well, in your article, you talk about how Republicans have
kind of moved away from being that party that supports
the rule of law. And this is in using this
as an example. Do you think that ever comes back
or we just as the party just thrown caution to
the wind in that particular category in.
Speaker 6 (22:29):
Your mind, you know, it's a good question. I worry
about that, and I worry about it not just for
our party, but I worry about it for our jurors,
because I think we're rapidly getting to the place where
whether a judge gives a choice of evils instruction or not,
jurors begin to think in terms of jury nullification, like, well,
of course they broke the law, but they had a
(22:50):
really good reason to do it, and I like that
reason more than I like the law, and therefore I'm
not going to hold this person accountable. If we get
to that point, man, we might as well just erase
all the laws, because we can just say, what was
your intention?
Speaker 3 (23:02):
If we're just going to.
Speaker 6 (23:03):
Judge intentions, because the outcome has to be something that
we try to regulate when it comes to hurting another person,
we can't say you shouldn't do this, but if you
have a really good reason for it, Jerry might let
you go and I think that's my concern is that
it won't just be the Republican Party that doesn't go
back there, It'll be future jurors that move in that
direction well.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
And to tie this into the issue that I was
covering in the first hour, we had the victim of
Ephron Debisson and kind of talking about how the criminal
justice system failed that victim. You know, luckily he survived,
he's getting his life back to as normal as he can.
But we've got several incidents in Colorado where we've seen
the criminal justice system kind of upside down when it
(23:45):
comes to mental competency and whatnot. And I wish as
much energy that's been put towards Tina Peters would be
put towards those issues. And that's where Republican That's the
space that Republicans used to occupy. But it seems as
if we don't have that same fervor, that same energy
(24:05):
to go out and attack the things that deserve to
be attacked. Do you see that?
Speaker 6 (24:11):
Yes, you are absolutely right, and I can't even though
I've voted for our president three times and I feel
so glad they won this last time. I got to
tell you it starts at the top, and I think
what we've seen is a real move away from I
feel bound by the law instead. I think what we've seen,
(24:31):
and it's in the state, it's at the local level
some places, but it's definitely at the executive at the
federal level, is to look at the law as either
something I can use to accomplish my goals or an
impediment to me, and I'll either ignore it or just
work around it. And that kind of a thing when
it takes place at that top level, when we don't
impose some sort of self restraint in how we treat
the law, it doesn't take long to get to a
(24:53):
generation where people are like, the law is a pretty
good suggestion as opposed to the law is the rule law.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Yeah. Well, and I want to ask one more question
before we let you go. But you hinted to something
that you know you're worried about where jurors stand on
this these types of issues. You are the DA in
a mostly a conservative county. If that mindset is starting
to change, that's got to be difficult for you to
look at how you're going to select a jury. But
(25:19):
since the laws have gotten so weak in Colorado and
now you know, you kind of have this differing opinion
of what a conviction should really you know, stem from
how much harder is it to convict persons of crime
now compared to say, fifteen years ago or twenty years ago,
when you were when you were younger in this position.
Speaker 6 (25:40):
Well, the things that make it harder to achieve justice,
I won't say just get convictions to achieve justice, let's
say become a lot of these changes in the substance
of law that make it so that your guys go
out and kick butt. They make the arrest, they investigate
the crime, they put a great case together, the das
run it into the court and they stick the landing.
Right get then, But because of what the legislature has done,
(26:02):
the outcome is, hey, you're on probation. You know, that's
a tough thing right there. The things we've done with
bail and bond to make it a revolving door at
the jail front, you know, put us at risk constantly.
All of those things make it harder and harder to
really get to a place where we feel like we're
being safe. And if anyone has any doubts about how
(26:25):
a fender friendly, the legislature is. If you're bored, you're
having trouble sleeping, just kind of link into the website
that takes you to the House Judiciary Committee hearings and
just listen to some of these legislators banter and you'll
be like, what planet am I on? Where am I?
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Yeah, it'll make you sick. Well, George, if you want,
you can throw your text in your cell phone number
out here so these Texters can just text you directly
about your article. I mean, I'm happy to give you
that option.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Very positive.
Speaker 6 (26:55):
I'm sure I think I tried. I tried to get
you the next early on. By the way, I'm sure
you could identify which one it was. But I just
leave you that little nugget from about four oh three
I got you.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
I'll find it. I'm sure I know exactly where it
came from. Hey, by the way, your booster ced is safe.
So thanks for coming on the show, George, and thanks man.
Thanks for taking all the heat with your article. We
appreciate it, of course.
Speaker 6 (27:19):
Thanks and thanks Ryan.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Talk to you guys later. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas to
you as well. We'll go to break when we come back,
we'll try to get through some of these texts and
maybe grab a couple of phone calls. You're listening to
the Dan Caplas Show here on six pint thirty k
How with Well Kenny Sriff, Steve Roams.
Speaker 5 (27:38):
And now back to the Dan Taplas Show podcast.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Welcome back to the Dan Capla Show here with Well
Kenny Sheriff Steve Reams as your guest host, and just
wrapping up to day. But let's go straight to the
phone lines if we could. We've had David from Pueblo
waiting for a little while to talk about the governor's race. David,
how you doing tonight?
Speaker 4 (27:54):
I'm great, Thanks for taking call.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
You bet, what do you have to say about the
governor's race?
Speaker 4 (28:02):
You know it's not looking real good. But you know
what I will say your guest earlier, mister Wadhams. Yeah,
I think he's a little old school that I don't
really know him, but I'm gonna say he's a Rhino
and I'm guessing he's anti Trump just by listening to I.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Think he would tell you in his own words that
he is not a fan of President Trump, especially for
his personality. But you know that's for him to decide. Yes,
I don't think he's a huge fan of Trump.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
Yeah, that's okay. That's the very first time I heard him.
I can read right through it. There's a bigger silent
majority here than people want to admit. And George Brockler,
I wanted to get to him the other day. I
wanted to look into a case, and maybe you could
look into Eric Hold. He's a fire chief in Florisa
and Colorado. He's trying to follow a lawsuit. He as
the state on our machines, our elections. And this goes
(28:56):
back to twenty two or twenty three, I should say,
actually May of twenty three. Yes, proof of what they're
up to, okay, And everyone says there's no facts and
he can't get a fair jury and tell it Taylor
County either. The DA's mistreating him there. But oh, I
got another candidate for you for the government of race
By possibly, so you might want to reach out to him.
(29:17):
He claims he's going to make a decision at ten days.
He's a little firebrand, you know him.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Oh you're talking about Joe Oltman. Yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 4 (29:25):
He saw his podcast saying that just two days ago.
He's thinking he's going to make a decision at ten days.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Yeah, I think he's talking about doing that the day
after Christmas or on Christmas Day, So you know, we'll
see if he becomes the governor's candidate. I think I'll
have him on, or Ryan or Dan or somebody will
have him on. You know, I don't have a certainty
and what I'm going to be hosting the show, but
we'll keep an eye out if he becomes an official candidate.
You know, we'll cross that bridge when it comes.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
Well, I guess that your deal. And by the way,
the kirk Meyer situation regarding Tina Peters, it's a typical
politician position. I need more information. Yeah, and by the way,
the silent majority is much greater. Those elections have been
manipulated for the past ten years.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
David, I appreciate all that that that you're filling in,
but I want to make sure we get to the
other caller. Here at the Now Show podcast, we have
Becky from Colorado Springs. Becky, I think you wanted to
make some comments about Tina Peters.
Speaker 7 (30:23):
Yes, I had a question, and I think this still
remains an unknown. It's my understanding that states are required
to hold voting records for twenty six months of any
federal election, and that went and keep that safer fact
(30:44):
and be able to show it to the federal government
if asked, I got reimaging that Jana Griswold directed would
have wiped out and then therefore abrogated federal law. Well,
I understand that Tina is considered guilty under state law,
(31:07):
while in her view, was trying to comply with federal law.
Can you tell me about federal law requirements of holding
voting right?
Speaker 2 (31:15):
I certainly cannot. That is not my area of expertise,
and I wouldn't even try to try to walk through that.
You know, I've listened to all the arguments back and forth.
I simply I'm not an expert in election law. You
know I can. I can try to contact some people
and maybe get them on the show next time I'm hosting.
But I think I think what you're hinting to is
we have and you're not even hinting to it. You're
(31:37):
kind of saying it directly. You know, Tina Peters did
what she did in an attempt to say, hey, I
don't think that this election went exactly right. But on
the other side of the equation, you've got Jenna Griswold,
who has made some very huge mistakes and hasn't been
held accountable for it. And I think that's where the
frustration I have for the election process comes, is that
(31:58):
it doesn't feel like justice is being applied equally. And again,
what Jenna Griswold's done, maybe that can't be prosecuted in
Mesa County, maybe that has to be prosecuted in a
different county, but it's not even being examined for prosecution.
And I think that's a huge point of frustration for
a lot of folks, whether you're a mega person or
just a Republican or a conservative, I think it gets
(32:22):
under your skin. And I totally understand where you're coming from, Becky,
I just don't have the answers when it comes to
the exacts on how long ballots have to be held
in those kind of things.
Speaker 7 (32:33):
And I think that Tina supposedly making vulnerable Colorado and
also federal data solar crime, but Griswold made vulnerable by
the biosystem all of the passwords. Certainly, to me, it's
(32:53):
much more of a high crime, high level of impact,
and deserved should be actually examined, put before a indictment
and let's see where that goes, because that was fully
open for mine.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Well, it wouldn't hurt my feelings at all. But Becky,
thanks for calling in. We're just gonna have to wrap
up the show here pretty quickly, so I want to
grab just a couple of these texts here. You know,
some of you are are definitely not fans of Dick
Wadhams and kind of made the comment that you know,
his time has passed. But I think this one, this
one's got a little bit of relevance to read. It says,
(33:30):
if he's the election wizard that he makes himself out
to be, why doesn't he pick a candidate and manage
her or him to a landslide win instead of writing
what they say, fiction articles in the paper. You know,
I don't know, maybe Dick's got a candidate out there
he can champion in the future. Time we'll tell all
that being said, Thank you guys for listening in, Thanks
(33:51):
for blowing up the text line. I'm sorry I didn't
get to all of them, but it's been a pleasure
being with you here on the Dan Kapli Show six
point thirty k how with Well Kenny Sheriff Steve rings
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