Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
About a week and a half ago, I had a
guest on the show, Josh Urosales, who whose conversation brought
up many more questions, including from people who were listening
to the show, And I just thought, you know, it
was both an interesting and important conversation, important for people
(00:20):
who could really use, you know, some help and some
guidance and some good advice.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
And for those of you who.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
I didn't hear the first time, and we're not going
to go through the whole story this time, you can
go to my blog at Ross Kaminsky dot com and
go back a week and a half and find the
original interview with Josh. But Josh was in prison for
life on a charge of felony murder. He was involved
as a young man in a drug deal that went bad,
somebody got killed. Josh did not have a weapon and
(00:49):
did not kill anybody, but because of the law at
the time, he got life in prison. Beth mccannon the
Denver DA, just before she left office, they started this
new task force to look at some old cases, either
cases of people who might actually have been innocent, and
then secondarily cases where perhaps the punishment didn't quite fit
(01:13):
the crime. They determined that Josh's case fit that latter category.
Josh got out of prison after just over nineteen years,
which is probably somewhere around or slightly on the high
end of the sentence that somebody would get for that crime.
Now they wouldn't get life in prison now, So, Josh,
did I say anything wrong there? I don't want to
spend a lot of time going back and over all that.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
But is that is that all about? Right now? I
was accurate? Okay?
Speaker 1 (01:37):
And then just for people who weren't listening last time,
tell us what you're doing now.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
So now I'm a Perry Covey coach.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
We created connections who were out there saving lives, helping
people of resource brokers, help people get into housing, jobs,
a support mentor allies.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Whatever they need, we got them. And one more time
with the company and the group name that you're with
creating connections. Amazing team creating connections. Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
So after I had on the show last time and
I asked you a bunch of questions and talked about
a lot of stuff, I got an email from somebody
who was listening who said, I'm in a halfway house.
Other people are with me here in the halfway house.
We listened to that interview, and we have a lot
of questions for Josh. Do you think you could get
Josh to answer some questions? And I asked you if
(02:21):
you would answer some and you said yes, Tony's And
I asked you if you want to do it on
the air or an email, and you said, y'ah'll come
back on the show. So here you are, and thanks
for making your way back to the station.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
I appreciate it. Well, I appreciate your having me back.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Okay, So there's a lot of questions and I don't
know if we'll have time for all of.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Them, but I'm going to go through them.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
I may reword them a little bit, just to make
them a little more general or a little more or
a little clearer, and you know, just give the best,
relatively short answers that you can so that we can
get through as many as possible. So here we go.
What is the biggest challenge you still face?
Speaker 3 (02:56):
The biggest challenge I have sometimes is communicating with certain
people coming from that environment for so long we handle things,
as I say, an aggression, different thing, so out here
as being more a receptive understanding of everyday life out here.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
All right, so now I may follow up with my
own questions based on your answers.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Sometimes you do. You sometimes find it.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
A challenge for yourself if you get into a tense
situation to not react aggressively. Or is that not really
part of your personality anymore?
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Yes, part of my personality no more. And I pray
every day like that. I keep that humbleness inside. How
did your question two?
Speaker 1 (03:32):
How did your prison sentence affect you emotionally? And what
have you done to work on that since you've been released?
Speaker 3 (03:39):
So I think I said it last time when I
was given life without parole, like a part of.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Me died inside.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Like they say, if you take away hope from a man,
he becomes a breathing corpse, right, And I kept a
part of that still.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
That's why I'm out today.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
However, a part of me still is still amazing because
of that life sentence.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Once you took response onsibility for your part in the crime,
and you and I talked about that last time and
realized your actions was that was that hard to accept?
You did touch on this a little bit, but this
is they want a little more.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Just a quick more. So it took me ten years
to accept it. I was in denial, say not, I
pull the shugre, I don't belong here. But once I
accepted the fact that no I was part of the
crime and I'm responsible for amount of was in his life,
then I think doors started opening more for me.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
This next question, I'm not sure exactly how they mean it.
They they're asking whether being involved in the type of
crime you were involved with, were you dealing with any
kind of mental illness? I think I'm not sure if
they're asking, do you feel like you had any you know,
mental illness or psychological problems that led you into that life,
or maybe they're asking did being involved with that cause
(04:50):
you any psychological struggles or mental illness, so you can
answer either or both.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
YEA, So being involved in it obviously, Like once I said,
once I accepted it, I wasn't offered a lot of time.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
But once I accepted it.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
I mean, I was twenty one years old, a man
got killed and landed on me his face batter on
my face when he passed away. I shut that out
of my mind for a lot of years, but once
I accepted it, and now I still struggle with with
it a little bit.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
But I do have people I talked to when I'm
having hard days.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
I didn't know that part about how you were that
close to the guy physically close today.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
He landed on you. Did you know him? I didn't know. Wow,
let's just follow up a little bit.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
So you said you you talk to someone when you're
having hard days. So I'm guessing a counselor therapist kind
of kind of person.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Right, is that? What's uh? I don't only get too
personal here, What's what's that? Like? You you or let
me let me put it this way. What are the
mean kinds of feelings or.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Thoughts that you have that cause you to say to yourself,
you know what, I'm going to go talk to.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
My counselor I just remembering the emotion afterwards, because, like
I said, I shut it out of my mind.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
I first so long that it didn't happen.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
But once I accepted it, like it came flooding back
as crazy. And when I have them days, it isn't
It isn't like I'm like, oh, I need to go or.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Nothing like that.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
It's just like I need to go get off my
chest real quick, like I'm having a bad day.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Kind of what would you tell someone who is living
the kind of lifestyle that you were in to prevent
them from getting involved in that type of situation that
sent you to prison.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Well, that's probably the clichest answer, is what you're saying,
do no matter what affects someoney in somehow, so one
decision that affect the rest of your lives, right, So
be careful what you do.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I wonder, you know, is once you get into a
certain lifestyle. It I'm just speculating here, I don't know anything, right,
so I can imagine that when you get into a
certain lifestyle that there may be and an amount of
pressure that cannot be overcome to go along to something
(07:02):
that could turn out real bad. Right, You're hanging out
with people who aren't great, and you're not, you know,
a bad person.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
You haven't done a crime, but these are your friends.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
This is you know, you said it wasn't really gang,
but you know it's your crew and they're.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Going to go do this thing.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
You're probably under a lot of pressure to go with them.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Yeah, that's true too, so I guess, And that's a
good point touched on that is, don't worry about peer pressure.
You're you're your own man at the end. Of the
day and nobody cares about you like you. So well again,
we'll just a quick follow up on this.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
So let's let's say let's say that on that faithful
day you you had thought to yourself, I got a
bad feeling about this. I don't want to be involved
in any of this, and you said to those other guys, Uh,
I'm not going, I don't I don't want to do
any of this. I'm not going. What what do you
think the ramifications would have been for you in your
(07:59):
I don't know if i'd call it a social life,
but whatever you however you would describe your life back then,
If you had said that to those people that you
were associated with honestly as a man right now looking
back nothing as a kid, then I'm thinking, Ah, they're
gonna make fun of me, they're gonna judge me, things
like that.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
So that's the change in perception as well. That's it.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
So you think you could have said no at the
time and they would have said, all right, we'll go
do it without you, and then they wouldn't have held
it against you and you would have been hanging out
with them the next day.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Yeah, I think we're our worst creating sometimes that's interesting.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
That's interesting.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Okay, this next question sort of assumes something, but I'll
just read the question. What was your biggest challenge in
changing the criminal mind set? So? I don't know, it
doesn't sound to me like you exactly had a criminal mindset,
But you can tell me if I'm wrong. Maybe I'm
being too generous to young Josh. Maybe you did. But
(08:56):
if so, how do you change that mindset? How do
you over come it?
Speaker 3 (09:02):
That was in the age, all right? But yeah, I
wasn't the worst for guys at that age. For me,
the mindset once I began to change the process, it
kind of fell in the place. So right, Like they say,
in order to start that new chapter, you have to close.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
The home one completely.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
So with my change came the way I think, the
where I reacted, the way I acted with everything. Yeah,
and that process beginning in there, which I'm grateful for.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Let me I'll add my own question here in terms
of a lot of the acceptance and the and the change,
uh many many changes. How much of that do you
think was catalyzed by the fact that you had daughters already?
Like do you think you would have changed less or
been less interested in change.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
If you didn't have any kids, I.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Definitely wouldn't changed. No, I definitely had the biggest impact
on me.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
My daughters absolutely and tell me a little more. Yeah,
just not to go much too far from last time.
But yeah, that was my big motivation to change. Is
they asked me questions and I realized that be doing
a life stance in prison.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
You overwhelmed with that lifestyle.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
It's that's what we do our everyday life, our conversation,
So the vocabulary, the verbage, everything's the same in there.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
So I started. I found myself in visits.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Talking to my little daughters the same way I would
talk to a callmaker the next man. You know, not
all the way, but certain ways. I'm like, man, what
the hell this ain't right? And uh, that was that
that paradigm shift to my heart. That's interesting. Let's see,
what's the main thing that keeps you motivated?
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Now?
Speaker 3 (10:40):
I'm obviously staying out of prison, right but honestly, the
burden of knowing that a lot of eyes around me
right now, with life thought for all supposed to never
get out, and I know that if I mess up,
it could stop somebody else's chances and if I do good,
I'm hoping that it will give somebody else a chance
that deserves it as well.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
That was in my same shoes. This is just a.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Very kind of technical question. So at the moment, what's
your legal situation is it? Is it probation, is it parole?
Is it something else? Is it nothing?
Speaker 2 (11:11):
What is it all? Parole? I got five years for
all five years and.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
So again, pardon my pardon my ignorance. So obviously on
parole it means you got real risk of going back
to prison if you do something wrong. What what's the
what's the threshold? Like how you know if you, uh,
if you got in a bar fight, did you go
back to prison?
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Absolutely?
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Yeah, So so on parole is pretty much I'm still
a DC Client Department correcsions, So I got my prison number.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
I'm just on parole doing that. So yeah, if you
break the.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Law, my parole officer told me just simple, Look, if
you don't break the law, you're fine.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
If you break the law, you're going back to prison.
Anything else you're fine. Okay, So almost no matter the
level of offense.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
If you if you shop lifted a candy bar, you
could go back to prison. Mister Chad says, is that
does that scare you or do you kind of ignore
it because you at this point you know you're not
going to break the law and you're not and you're
not worried about it.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Yeah, exactly, I'm good right now. Better I was not
living in the same life.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Yeah, I'm gonna reword question number seven a little bit.
The original question said, what's one failure that shaped you?
I mean, but I think being there that day at
that crime was probably number one. But is there something
that you've done, and I don't mean in a criminal
sense at all, since you've been out of prison, that
(12:33):
you think, you know, I I should have done that better,
or I shouldn't I shouldn't have done that.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
I don't mean breaking the law. Yeah, well that's what
it was. That was breaking logs.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
It was that was my whole childhood and what my
biggest leasure, I think was not caring what my actions effected.
I would do so the dumbest things when I was younger,
and looking back now it makes no sense. And I'm
talking about like breaking windows, windows, randomly planting tires, randomly,
breaking the houses for no reason, and trash in the house.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Just for no reason.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
And that's my biggest failure, is not knowing what I'm
doing and whose effects.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
You know, after you and I talked the last time,
there were a lot of very interesting and memorable parts
to the conversation, but the one that I mentioned to
my wife was when you said we didn't you said
we grew up with idols, not role models. That was
(13:25):
an incredible line, and I just want you to talk
about that again for a second, because there's probably quite
a lot of people listening right now who didn't hear
the other conversation.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Yeah, so I think, and honestly, I heard that a
while back in the group. We were having one of
pro groups and it came up and I was like, damn,
that's that's perfect because I think, and this is my
perception is idols are looked upon, maybe run other actors
or rappers or whatever. They're not present. Role models are present.
So we didn't have role models our life. We just
had idols that we looked up to. That just a
(13:56):
facade at the end of the day, right.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
And the reason I thought of that is when you
were talking about all the bad stuff and the criminal
stuff that you were doing when you were young. You know,
my first thought is you know, where's your dad or
where are your role models? And you had already kind
of answered that question and like didn't have them, didn't
have them. We got about four minutes left. Let's get
through what we can here. What's the most difficult thing
for you right now?
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Probably just dealing with the negativity out here. There's a
lot of negative stuff going on in negative people. I know,
everybody got their own backstory and their own history what
they've been through. But adapting to that, you'd be surprised
in prison the positive mentality there is.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Really it's crazy. But yeah, that's interesting. I wish I
had time to dig into that more. Maybe we'll talk
about that another time. Well, what's the.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Most inspiring thing about your job?
Speaker 3 (14:42):
There's two things obviously, Like I said earlier, in my team,
we've got a good team where like I'm I having
a problem with a client, are any help with resources?
I reach out to them and we all work together.
That's the best thing I love the most about it.
The second thing, obviously is the impact I have. Several
times I've had clients but like, hey, I don't I'm
good in groups, heading I don't want to do it.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
I have anxiety, and they've some have been in prison,
some have it.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
But all story short, I'm like, hey, after a couple
of one almost he had somebody try it, try it,
and now they reach out to me. Hey, when we
go to library, when we can have outing us Saturday,
they enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Now that's fabulous for those who joining.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
We're talking with joshuas Alice, who was released for prison
from prison after over nineteen years in prison. He was
originally sentenced to life in prison, uh without parole, but
he he got out, and we're just answering some listener
questions as follow ups to his first time on the
show a week and a half ago. What was the
most important change you had to make to successfully reintegrate
(15:37):
into society after you got out of prison.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
I had to tell myself that I'm on a convict
no more, I'm a citizen, and I had to act
as as in, if something happens, I had to be
like a citizen.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Now, what do you consider your best quality?
Speaker 3 (15:54):
My best quality would probably be never giving up myself,
my inns, the ability to manifest positive things in my life.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
It's kind of remarkable considering you know, what the first
half of your life was like, yeah, approximately the first half.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
What are you early around forty now on forty one?
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Yeah, somebody asked about radio was like, damn, you're not
bitter for spending that month time in prison? Yeah, I'm like, no,
I'm not. I'm grateful. I'm happy every day.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Spent literally half your life in prison, and yet you,
like you see, seem pretty upbeat. What helped you have
hope and keeped you from losing faith while you were
facing a life sentence?
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Myself?
Speaker 3 (16:34):
The same thing that was holding me back, all the
mirrors as myself. I've reached into myself and again this
is my personal exparents, not somebody else is.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Going through prison.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
But I think to get through that much time and
get out was till succeed.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
You have to love yourself, all right.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Last question, and this might be the most interesting one.
Do you believe that everyone deserves a second chance, even
someone who's been involved with a crime of taking somebody's
life or being part of a crime where somebody lost
their life.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
That is that is a good question.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
I don't think nobody deserves a second chance, including myself.
I do believe that everybody can earn a second chance
and that change is possible, which is why, like I
said earlier, that's my biggest burden is making sure I
do good to prove that and get other people a
second chance.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Tell folks the website of the group you're working with.
I'm working Creating Connections, creating.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
And I think it's Creating Connections CS.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
I believe that's the website, probably dot org.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
But if you just look up Creating Connections Colorado, you
will you will find it easily. And Josh, I'm really
grateful for you coming back and answering these questions. And
I told the folks, you know again, if you're just joining.
I got these questions from someone who heard the first
conversation who was in a halfway house coming you know,
(17:58):
between prison and coming back to society.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
And I think as anyway.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
That person and others were listening and they had a
bunch of questions, and Josh agreed to come answer them.
So these are questions that were asked by people who
are in this similar situation, and I thought it would
be a good thing to do to answer them and
interesting for me as well. So thanks again, Josh, really
appreciate it. Appreciate everything. You're doing, and i'm i'm I
(18:26):
think I told you last time. I'm proud of you
for what you've overcome and what you've become.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Thank you. It means a lot.
About a week and a half ago, I had a
guest on the show, Josh Urosales, who whose conversation brought
up many more questions, including from people who were listening
to the show, And I just thought, you know, it
was both an interesting and important conversation, important for people
(00:20):
who could really use, you know, some help and some
guidance and some good advice.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
And for those of you who.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
I didn't hear the first time, and we're not going
to go through the whole story this time, you can
go to my blog at Ross Kaminsky dot com and
go back a week and a half and find the
original interview with Josh. But Josh was in prison for
life on a charge of felony murder. He was involved
as a young man in a drug deal that went bad,
somebody got killed. Josh did not have a weapon and
(00:49):
did not kill anybody, but because of the law at
the time, he got life in prison. Beth mccannon the
Denver DA, just before she left office, they started this
new task force to look at some old cases, either
cases of people who might actually have been innocent, and
then secondarily cases where perhaps the punishment didn't quite fit
(01:13):
the crime. They determined that Josh's case fit that latter category.
Josh got out of prison after just over nineteen years,
which is probably somewhere around or slightly on the high
end of the sentence that somebody would get for that crime.
Now they wouldn't get life in prison now, So, Josh,
did I say anything wrong there? I don't want to
spend a lot of time going back and over all that.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
But is that is that all about? Right now? I
was accurate? Okay?
Speaker 1 (01:37):
And then just for people who weren't listening last time,
tell us what you're doing now.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
So now I'm a Perry Covey coach.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
We created connections who were out there saving lives, helping
people of resource brokers, help people get into housing, jobs,
a support mentor allies.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Whatever they need, we got them. And one more time
with the company and the group name that you're with
creating connections. Amazing team creating connections. Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
So after I had on the show last time and
I asked you a bunch of questions and talked about
a lot of stuff, I got an email from somebody
who was listening who said, I'm in a halfway house.
Other people are with me here in the halfway house.
We listened to that interview, and we have a lot
of questions for Josh. Do you think you could get
Josh to answer some questions? And I asked you if
(02:21):
you would answer some and you said yes, Tony's And
I asked you if you want to do it on
the air or an email, and you said, y'ah'll come
back on the show. So here you are, and thanks
for making your way back to the station.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
I appreciate it. Well, I appreciate your having me back.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Okay, So there's a lot of questions and I don't
know if we'll have time for all of.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Them, but I'm going to go through them.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
I may reword them a little bit, just to make
them a little more general or a little more or
a little clearer, and you know, just give the best,
relatively short answers that you can so that we can
get through as many as possible. So here we go.
What is the biggest challenge you still face?
Speaker 3 (02:56):
The biggest challenge I have sometimes is communicating with certain
people coming from that environment for so long we handle things,
as I say, an aggression, different thing, so out here
as being more a receptive understanding of everyday life out here.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
All right, so now I may follow up with my
own questions based on your answers.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Sometimes you do. You sometimes find it.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
A challenge for yourself if you get into a tense
situation to not react aggressively. Or is that not really
part of your personality anymore?
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Yes, part of my personality no more. And I pray
every day like that. I keep that humbleness inside. How
did your question two?
Speaker 1 (03:32):
How did your prison sentence affect you emotionally? And what
have you done to work on that since you've been released?
Speaker 3 (03:39):
So I think I said it last time when I
was given life without parole, like a part of.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Me died inside.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Like they say, if you take away hope from a man,
he becomes a breathing corpse, right, And I kept a
part of that still.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
That's why I'm out today.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
However, a part of me still is still amazing because
of that life sentence.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Once you took response onsibility for your part in the crime,
and you and I talked about that last time and
realized your actions was that was that hard to accept?
You did touch on this a little bit, but this
is they want a little more.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Just a quick more. So it took me ten years
to accept it. I was in denial, say not, I
pull the shugre, I don't belong here. But once I
accepted the fact that no I was part of the
crime and I'm responsible for amount of was in his life,
then I think doors started opening more for me.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
This next question, I'm not sure exactly how they mean it.
They they're asking whether being involved in the type of
crime you were involved with, were you dealing with any
kind of mental illness? I think I'm not sure if
they're asking, do you feel like you had any you know,
mental illness or psychological problems that led you into that life,
or maybe they're asking did being involved with that cause
(04:50):
you any psychological struggles or mental illness, so you can
answer either or both.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
YEA, So being involved in it obviously, Like once I said,
once I accepted it, I wasn't offered a lot of time.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
But once I accepted it.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
I mean, I was twenty one years old, a man
got killed and landed on me his face batter on
my face when he passed away. I shut that out
of my mind for a lot of years, but once
I accepted it, and now I still struggle with with
it a little bit.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
But I do have people I talked to when I'm
having hard days.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
I didn't know that part about how you were that
close to the guy physically close today.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
He landed on you. Did you know him? I didn't know. Wow,
let's just follow up a little bit.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
So you said you you talk to someone when you're
having hard days. So I'm guessing a counselor therapist kind
of kind of person.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Right, is that? What's uh? I don't only get too
personal here, What's what's that? Like? You you or let
me let me put it this way. What are the
mean kinds of feelings or.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Thoughts that you have that cause you to say to yourself,
you know what, I'm going to go talk to.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
My counselor I just remembering the emotion afterwards, because, like
I said, I shut it out of my mind.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
I first so long that it didn't happen.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
But once I accepted it, like it came flooding back
as crazy. And when I have them days, it isn't
It isn't like I'm like, oh, I need to go or.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Nothing like that.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
It's just like I need to go get off my
chest real quick, like I'm having a bad day.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Kind of what would you tell someone who is living
the kind of lifestyle that you were in to prevent
them from getting involved in that type of situation that
sent you to prison.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Well, that's probably the clichest answer, is what you're saying,
do no matter what affects someoney in somehow, so one
decision that affect the rest of your lives, right, So
be careful what you do.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I wonder, you know, is once you get into a
certain lifestyle. It I'm just speculating here, I don't know anything, right,
so I can imagine that when you get into a
certain lifestyle that there may be and an amount of
pressure that cannot be overcome to go along to something
(07:02):
that could turn out real bad. Right, You're hanging out
with people who aren't great, and you're not, you know,
a bad person.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
You haven't done a crime, but these are your friends.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
This is you know, you said it wasn't really gang,
but you know it's your crew and they're.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Going to go do this thing.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
You're probably under a lot of pressure to go with them.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Yeah, that's true too, so I guess, And that's a
good point touched on that is, don't worry about peer pressure.
You're you're your own man at the end. Of the
day and nobody cares about you like you. So well again,
we'll just a quick follow up on this.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
So let's let's say let's say that on that faithful
day you you had thought to yourself, I got a
bad feeling about this. I don't want to be involved
in any of this, and you said to those other guys, Uh,
I'm not going, I don't I don't want to do
any of this. I'm not going. What what do you
think the ramifications would have been for you in your
(07:59):
I don't know if i'd call it a social life,
but whatever you however you would describe your life back then,
If you had said that to those people that you
were associated with honestly as a man right now looking
back nothing as a kid, then I'm thinking, Ah, they're
gonna make fun of me, they're gonna judge me, things
like that.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
So that's the change in perception as well. That's it.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
So you think you could have said no at the
time and they would have said, all right, we'll go
do it without you, and then they wouldn't have held
it against you and you would have been hanging out
with them the next day.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Yeah, I think we're our worst creating sometimes that's interesting.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
That's interesting.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Okay, this next question sort of assumes something, but I'll
just read the question. What was your biggest challenge in
changing the criminal mind set? So? I don't know, it
doesn't sound to me like you exactly had a criminal mindset,
But you can tell me if I'm wrong. Maybe I'm
being too generous to young Josh. Maybe you did. But
(08:56):
if so, how do you change that mindset? How do
you over come it?
Speaker 3 (09:02):
That was in the age, all right? But yeah, I
wasn't the worst for guys at that age. For me,
the mindset once I began to change the process, it
kind of fell in the place. So right, Like they say,
in order to start that new chapter, you have to close.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
The home one completely.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
So with my change came the way I think, the
where I reacted, the way I acted with everything. Yeah,
and that process beginning in there, which I'm grateful for.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Let me I'll add my own question here in terms
of a lot of the acceptance and the and the change,
uh many many changes. How much of that do you
think was catalyzed by the fact that you had daughters already?
Like do you think you would have changed less or
been less interested in change.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
If you didn't have any kids, I.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Definitely wouldn't changed. No, I definitely had the biggest impact
on me.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
My daughters absolutely and tell me a little more. Yeah,
just not to go much too far from last time.
But yeah, that was my big motivation to change. Is
they asked me questions and I realized that be doing
a life stance in prison.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
You overwhelmed with that lifestyle.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
It's that's what we do our everyday life, our conversation,
So the vocabulary, the verbage, everything's the same in there.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
So I started. I found myself in visits.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Talking to my little daughters the same way I would
talk to a callmaker the next man. You know, not
all the way, but certain ways. I'm like, man, what
the hell this ain't right? And uh, that was that
that paradigm shift to my heart. That's interesting. Let's see,
what's the main thing that keeps you motivated?
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Now?
Speaker 3 (10:40):
I'm obviously staying out of prison, right but honestly, the
burden of knowing that a lot of eyes around me
right now, with life thought for all supposed to never
get out, and I know that if I mess up,
it could stop somebody else's chances and if I do good,
I'm hoping that it will give somebody else a chance
that deserves it as well.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
That was in my same shoes. This is just a.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Very kind of technical question. So at the moment, what's
your legal situation is it? Is it probation, is it parole?
Is it something else? Is it nothing?
Speaker 2 (11:11):
What is it all? Parole? I got five years for
all five years and.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
So again, pardon my pardon my ignorance. So obviously on
parole it means you got real risk of going back
to prison if you do something wrong. What what's the
what's the threshold? Like how you know if you, uh,
if you got in a bar fight, did you go
back to prison?
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Absolutely?
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Yeah, So so on parole is pretty much I'm still
a DC Client Department correcsions, So I got my prison number.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
I'm just on parole doing that. So yeah, if you
break the.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Law, my parole officer told me just simple, Look, if
you don't break the law, you're fine.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
If you break the law, you're going back to prison.
Anything else you're fine. Okay, So almost no matter the
level of offense.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
If you if you shop lifted a candy bar, you
could go back to prison. Mister Chad says, is that
does that scare you or do you kind of ignore
it because you at this point you know you're not
going to break the law and you're not and you're
not worried about it.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Yeah, exactly, I'm good right now. Better I was not
living in the same life.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Yeah, I'm gonna reword question number seven a little bit.
The original question said, what's one failure that shaped you?
I mean, but I think being there that day at
that crime was probably number one. But is there something
that you've done, and I don't mean in a criminal
sense at all, since you've been out of prison, that
(12:33):
you think, you know, I I should have done that better,
or I shouldn't I shouldn't have done that.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
I don't mean breaking the law. Yeah, well that's what
it was. That was breaking logs.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
It was that was my whole childhood and what my
biggest leasure, I think was not caring what my actions effected.
I would do so the dumbest things when I was younger,
and looking back now it makes no sense. And I'm
talking about like breaking windows, windows, randomly planting tires, randomly,
breaking the houses for no reason, and trash in the house.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Just for no reason.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
And that's my biggest failure, is not knowing what I'm
doing and whose effects.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
You know, after you and I talked the last time,
there were a lot of very interesting and memorable parts
to the conversation, but the one that I mentioned to
my wife was when you said we didn't you said
we grew up with idols, not role models. That was
(13:25):
an incredible line, and I just want you to talk
about that again for a second, because there's probably quite
a lot of people listening right now who didn't hear
the other conversation.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Yeah, so I think, and honestly, I heard that a
while back in the group. We were having one of
pro groups and it came up and I was like, damn,
that's that's perfect because I think, and this is my
perception is idols are looked upon, maybe run other actors
or rappers or whatever. They're not present. Role models are present.
So we didn't have role models our life. We just
had idols that we looked up to. That just a
(13:56):
facade at the end of the day, right.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
And the reason I thought of that is when you
were talking about all the bad stuff and the criminal
stuff that you were doing when you were young. You know,
my first thought is you know, where's your dad or
where are your role models? And you had already kind
of answered that question and like didn't have them, didn't
have them. We got about four minutes left. Let's get
through what we can here. What's the most difficult thing
for you right now?
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Probably just dealing with the negativity out here. There's a
lot of negative stuff going on in negative people. I know,
everybody got their own backstory and their own history what
they've been through. But adapting to that, you'd be surprised
in prison the positive mentality there is.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Really it's crazy. But yeah, that's interesting. I wish I
had time to dig into that more. Maybe we'll talk
about that another time. Well, what's the.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Most inspiring thing about your job?
Speaker 3 (14:42):
There's two things obviously, Like I said earlier, in my team,
we've got a good team where like I'm I having
a problem with a client, are any help with resources?
I reach out to them and we all work together.
That's the best thing I love the most about it.
The second thing, obviously is the impact I have. Several
times I've had clients but like, hey, I don't I'm
good in groups, heading I don't want to do it.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
I have anxiety, and they've some have been in prison,
some have it.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
But all story short, I'm like, hey, after a couple
of one almost he had somebody try it, try it,
and now they reach out to me. Hey, when we
go to library, when we can have outing us Saturday,
they enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Now that's fabulous for those who joining.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
We're talking with joshuas Alice, who was released for prison
from prison after over nineteen years in prison. He was
originally sentenced to life in prison, uh without parole, but
he he got out, and we're just answering some listener
questions as follow ups to his first time on the
show a week and a half ago. What was the
most important change you had to make to successfully reintegrate
(15:37):
into society after you got out of prison.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
I had to tell myself that I'm on a convict
no more, I'm a citizen, and I had to act
as as in, if something happens, I had to be
like a citizen.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Now, what do you consider your best quality?
Speaker 3 (15:54):
My best quality would probably be never giving up myself,
my inns, the ability to manifest positive things in my life.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
It's kind of remarkable considering you know, what the first
half of your life was like, yeah, approximately the first half.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
What are you early around forty now on forty one?
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Yeah, somebody asked about radio was like, damn, you're not
bitter for spending that month time in prison? Yeah, I'm like, no,
I'm not. I'm grateful. I'm happy every day.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Spent literally half your life in prison, and yet you,
like you see, seem pretty upbeat. What helped you have
hope and keeped you from losing faith while you were
facing a life sentence?
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Myself?
Speaker 3 (16:34):
The same thing that was holding me back, all the
mirrors as myself. I've reached into myself and again this
is my personal exparents, not somebody else is.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Going through prison.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
But I think to get through that much time and
get out was till succeed.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
You have to love yourself, all right.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Last question, and this might be the most interesting one.
Do you believe that everyone deserves a second chance, even
someone who's been involved with a crime of taking somebody's
life or being part of a crime where somebody lost
their life.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
That is that is a good question.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
I don't think nobody deserves a second chance, including myself.
I do believe that everybody can earn a second chance
and that change is possible, which is why, like I
said earlier, that's my biggest burden is making sure I
do good to prove that and get other people a
second chance.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Tell folks the website of the group you're working with.
I'm working Creating Connections, creating.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
And I think it's Creating Connections CS.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
I believe that's the website, probably dot org.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
But if you just look up Creating Connections Colorado, you
will you will find it easily. And Josh, I'm really
grateful for you coming back and answering these questions. And
I told the folks, you know again, if you're just joining.
I got these questions from someone who heard the first
conversation who was in a halfway house coming you know,
(17:58):
between prison and coming back to society.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
And I think as anyway.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
That person and others were listening and they had a
bunch of questions, and Josh agreed to come answer them.
So these are questions that were asked by people who
are in this similar situation, and I thought it would
be a good thing to do to answer them and
interesting for me as well. So thanks again, Josh, really
appreciate it. Appreciate everything. You're doing, and i'm i'm I
(18:26):
think I told you last time. I'm proud of you
for what you've overcome and what you've become.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Thank you. It means a lot.
The Ross Kaminsky Show News
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