Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, I want to read to you one sentence quote.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
After a century of costly and ineffective approaches, the federal
government will lead a coordinated transformation of our food, health,
and scientific systems. That is a line from the new
Make America Healthy Again Commission report that.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Was just released today.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Joining us to talk about the report and the MAHA
movement in general is Mary Holland. Mary is President and
General Counsel of Children's Health Defense.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Mary. Very good to see you. Thanks for joining us
here on KOA, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
So just a couple of quick, top level things, and
then I want to get into the report. Can you
help me understand MAHA a little bit better? It seems
to me a very interesting aggregation of folks who, in
normal situations you might not think of them together as
a group. And you you know, maybe people who haven't
(00:57):
been politically active but are getting so now, Maybe some
like crunchy granola suburban moms, and maybe some mega people
who don't know who to trust after COVID, and maybe
just all kinds of different people coming together around an issue.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
I think you're absolutely right.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
So MAHA stands for Make America Healthy Again and health
really isn't a partisan issue. We all want to be healthy,
we want our children to be healthy, and that's what
this movement is about. It's really not a partisan movement.
It's really about getting back to being healthy. More than
half of all Americans and American children are sick. We
(01:36):
have some kind of chronic health condition, whether it's allergies
or asthma, or ADHD or autism, and we want to
get to a place where that's no longer the case
and it's doable.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
So let's talk a little bit about the report and
then I'll have some follow up questions. But I know
the report just came out today and you told me
you have a summary of it. You haven't read the
whole report yet, obviously, and it just came out today, right, So.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
I haven't read I haven't even a summary.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
So just tell us a few bullet points that you
think we need to know, and I'll follow up with
you on some things.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
So there are five bullet points. First, is ultra processed
foods that's causing a lack of nutrition. Second is toxic
chemical exposures that are through the food and other sources.
The third is having more gold standard science that that
has to be really the basis for decisions.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
The fourth is overuse of.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Medications, especially for children, and the fifth is corporate influence,
that there's been too much corporate overweening in these agencies
and not enough real science and radical transparency.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Let's start at the end, and I won't remember all those,
so you can remind me of them perhaps as we
as we go through, and I know I only have
you for about seven more minutes.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
I do think that's a I mean, I think all.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Of those are very interesting, and all of them have
either some or a lot of merit. I am reminded
of some of these studies that were funded by breakfast
real companies that magically concluded.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
That breakfast is the most important meal of the day.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
And that's hardly the most harmful version of what you're talking.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
About, right, Oh, absolutely, yeah. Corporate influence is really about
how big drug, big cam, big ad have more or
less taken over these agencies of the federal government. And
in some cases they have foundations that give them money,
they have to pay user fees, they have to you know,
people leave the agencies and they go for big paying
(03:29):
jobs in all of these corporations. So the corporations have
really gotten too much influence, and there's not been enough
government regulation where the regulators are really in charge. So
that's one of the things they're going.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
To look at.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
And I think in addition to the regulation there, there
should perhaps be just a lot more transparency. I mean,
all right, if Coca Cola wants to fund a thing,
they're welcome to fund what they want, but we should
know that when there's a study that comes out that
says soda isn't bad for.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
You, that Coca Cola paid for it, exactly right.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
So one of the things that Secretary Kennedy has said
repeatedly is radical transparency. We need radical transparency in these
regulatory health agencies. And also we need gold standard science.
So those are two things that are absolutely necessary so
that people can make educated, informed choices.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
We all believe in informed.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Consent for health interventions, whether it's food like what's in
your food, or whether it's your medicine, what's in your medicine,
And he's going to ensure.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
That that happens.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
One of the things that concerns me a little bit.
And I love your repeated emphasis on gold standard science.
And I actually heard a great interview with Jay Bodicharia,
who was on Bari Weiss's podcast a couple of days ago,
and he's talking about the same thing, gold standard science
and replicability.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
So if somebody finds.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Something, then another study should be able to find the
same result, right, And I do think that stuff's going
to be very interesting. One of the things I'm I'm
a little concerned about, just sort of big picture, is
how do we get people to, on the one hand,
believe there's good science, believe we're working towards figuring out
what's good and bad, but without at the same time
(05:11):
making them afraid of everything. Like it really troubled me
when people stopped giving their kids MMR vaccines because there
is no data to show that MMR is associated with autism,
and there's a lot of data to show that it isn't.
And I just I want the truth. I don't have
an ax to grind here. I just want the truth.
How do we make sure that your group and the
(05:35):
whole Maha movement seeks the truth without unnecessarily scaring people
out of doing good things?
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Right? Well, I think that people really have lost trust
in government agencies during COVID. I think that's one of
the huge casualties. And so I do think that Secretary
Kennedy and President Trump have a big job to do
to restore trust, and the way that they're going to
do that is making real science available to the American people.
(06:02):
Having the transparencies as these are the fact in so
many of these areas, we don't really know enough. We
don't have the facts in front of us. And I
think they're committed to making that happen, not hiding records,
really having Freedom of Information Act that's going to work
communicating with the American public. I think that's at the
heart of what they're trying to do with Make America
(06:22):
Healthy Again.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
We're talking with Mary Holland, who's President and General Counsel
of Children's Health Defense, today being just this morning, I
guess the release of the Make America Healthy Again Commission report.
Mary says it's sixty eight pages and I'll probably try
to try to read it later today.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Tell us a little bit about the MAHA Institute. What
is that?
Speaker 3 (06:48):
So the Maha Institute was just formed, and it's a
coalition of groups that have been working for decades, like
Children's Health Defense, to make America Healthy Again. So this
is looking at farming, looking at food, looking at kids' issues,
looking at medications, looking at all of these different issues,
bringing them together under one roof to try to really
(07:08):
advance this non partisan issue of making America healthy again.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Okay, I want to go back to a different version
of something I asked you a moment ago. So, Okay,
I'm a parent. I want to be healthy. I want
my kids to be healthy. I want everyone to be healthy.
And I do believe that there is probably some stuff
going on in our food supply system and other things
that are making us less healthy. I think the ultra
processed food thing is probably a real issue.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
I haven't seen enough data on seed oils yet, but
I'm open to hearing about about that. What I would
like to know from you is how we can feel
comfortable that we won't have the same problem from the
other side when it comes to Maha Institute or anybody else. Right, So,
what I don't want, like, I don't want Kelloggs and
(07:56):
Coca Cola and Big Sugar telling me what the right
thing to eat because I don't trust them.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
I also don't want.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Sort of radical fringe anti vax groups and you know
groups who only will ever eat any you know, all.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Vegans all the time and all.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
I don't want to have the data manipulated from the
other side. How can you make me feel comfortable that
what you guys are going to do is true, honest
science and not just the other side, the other fringe. Right?
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Well, I think that the Maha Institute is part of
a broader freedom movement to be honest with you, and
so I think the gold standard science is so in
the radical Transparency is about having.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
You evaluate the facts.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Nobody should be making these decisions for you, not Kellogg's,
not some institute. It's about giving you the information so
that you can make an educated choice for you and
for your family. That's what Children's Health Defense is about.
That's what the Maha Institute is going to be about.
Giving you the information that's truthful, information that's science based,
and then you decide what's right for you.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
What would be a website or two where my listeners
could learn more if they are so inclined.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Maha Institute dot us for Maha Institute and Children's Health
Defense dot org for Children's Health Defense.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Mary Holland is President and General Counsel of Children's Health Defense.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Thanks for your time, interesting conversation.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
I think we both look forward to reading that report,
so thanks for being here.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Thank you,
All right, I want to read to you one sentence quote.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
After a century of costly and ineffective approaches, the federal
government will lead a coordinated transformation of our food, health,
and scientific systems. That is a line from the new
Make America Healthy Again Commission report that.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Was just released today.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Joining us to talk about the report and the MAHA
movement in general is Mary Holland. Mary is President and
General Counsel of Children's Health Defense.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Mary. Very good to see you. Thanks for joining us
here on KOA, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
So just a couple of quick, top level things, and
then I want to get into the report. Can you
help me understand MAHA a little bit better? It seems
to me a very interesting aggregation of folks who, in
normal situations you might not think of them together as
a group. And you you know, maybe people who haven't
(00:57):
been politically active but are getting so now, Maybe some
like crunchy granola suburban moms, and maybe some mega people
who don't know who to trust after COVID, and maybe
just all kinds of different people coming together around an issue.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
I think you're absolutely right.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
So MAHA stands for Make America Healthy Again and health
really isn't a partisan issue. We all want to be healthy,
we want our children to be healthy, and that's what
this movement is about. It's really not a partisan movement.
It's really about getting back to being healthy. More than
half of all Americans and American children are sick. We
(01:36):
have some kind of chronic health condition, whether it's allergies
or asthma, or ADHD or autism, and we want to
get to a place where that's no longer the case
and it's doable.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
So let's talk a little bit about the report and
then I'll have some follow up questions. But I know
the report just came out today and you told me
you have a summary of it. You haven't read the
whole report yet, obviously, and it just came out today, right, So.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
I haven't read I haven't even a summary.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
So just tell us a few bullet points that you
think we need to know, and I'll follow up with
you on some things.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
So there are five bullet points. First, is ultra processed
foods that's causing a lack of nutrition. Second is toxic
chemical exposures that are through the food and other sources.
The third is having more gold standard science that that
has to be really the basis for decisions.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
The fourth is overuse of.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Medications, especially for children, and the fifth is corporate influence,
that there's been too much corporate overweening in these agencies
and not enough real science and radical transparency.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Let's start at the end, and I won't remember all those,
so you can remind me of them perhaps as we
as we go through, and I know I only have
you for about seven more minutes.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
I do think that's a I mean, I think all.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Of those are very interesting, and all of them have
either some or a lot of merit. I am reminded
of some of these studies that were funded by breakfast
real companies that magically concluded.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
That breakfast is the most important meal of the day.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
And that's hardly the most harmful version of what you're talking.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
About, right, Oh, absolutely, yeah. Corporate influence is really about
how big drug, big cam, big ad have more or
less taken over these agencies of the federal government. And
in some cases they have foundations that give them money,
they have to pay user fees, they have to you know,
people leave the agencies and they go for big paying
(03:29):
jobs in all of these corporations. So the corporations have
really gotten too much influence, and there's not been enough
government regulation where the regulators are really in charge. So
that's one of the things they're going.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
To look at.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
And I think in addition to the regulation there, there
should perhaps be just a lot more transparency. I mean,
all right, if Coca Cola wants to fund a thing,
they're welcome to fund what they want, but we should
know that when there's a study that comes out that
says soda isn't bad for.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
You, that Coca Cola paid for it, exactly right.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
So one of the things that Secretary Kennedy has said
repeatedly is radical transparency. We need radical transparency in these
regulatory health agencies. And also we need gold standard science.
So those are two things that are absolutely necessary so
that people can make educated, informed choices.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
We all believe in informed.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Consent for health interventions, whether it's food like what's in
your food, or whether it's your medicine, what's in your medicine,
And he's going to ensure.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
That that happens.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
One of the things that concerns me a little bit.
And I love your repeated emphasis on gold standard science.
And I actually heard a great interview with Jay Bodicharia,
who was on Bari Weiss's podcast a couple of days ago,
and he's talking about the same thing, gold standard science
and replicability.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
So if somebody finds.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Something, then another study should be able to find the
same result, right, And I do think that stuff's going
to be very interesting. One of the things I'm I'm
a little concerned about, just sort of big picture, is
how do we get people to, on the one hand,
believe there's good science, believe we're working towards figuring out
what's good and bad, but without at the same time
(05:11):
making them afraid of everything. Like it really troubled me
when people stopped giving their kids MMR vaccines because there
is no data to show that MMR is associated with autism,
and there's a lot of data to show that it isn't.
And I just I want the truth. I don't have
an ax to grind here. I just want the truth.
How do we make sure that your group and the
(05:35):
whole Maha movement seeks the truth without unnecessarily scaring people
out of doing good things?
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Right? Well, I think that people really have lost trust
in government agencies during COVID. I think that's one of
the huge casualties. And so I do think that Secretary
Kennedy and President Trump have a big job to do
to restore trust, and the way that they're going to
do that is making real science available to the American people.
(06:02):
Having the transparencies as these are the fact in so
many of these areas, we don't really know enough. We
don't have the facts in front of us. And I
think they're committed to making that happen, not hiding records,
really having Freedom of Information Act that's going to work
communicating with the American public. I think that's at the
heart of what they're trying to do with Make America
(06:22):
Healthy Again.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
We're talking with Mary Holland, who's President and General Counsel
of Children's Health Defense, today being just this morning, I
guess the release of the Make America Healthy Again Commission report.
Mary says it's sixty eight pages and I'll probably try
to try to read it later today.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Tell us a little bit about the MAHA Institute. What
is that?
Speaker 3 (06:48):
So the Maha Institute was just formed, and it's a
coalition of groups that have been working for decades, like
Children's Health Defense, to make America Healthy Again. So this
is looking at farming, looking at food, looking at kids' issues,
looking at medications, looking at all of these different issues,
bringing them together under one roof to try to really
(07:08):
advance this non partisan issue of making America healthy again.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Okay, I want to go back to a different version
of something I asked you a moment ago. So, Okay,
I'm a parent. I want to be healthy. I want
my kids to be healthy. I want everyone to be healthy.
And I do believe that there is probably some stuff
going on in our food supply system and other things
that are making us less healthy. I think the ultra
processed food thing is probably a real issue.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
I haven't seen enough data on seed oils yet, but
I'm open to hearing about about that. What I would
like to know from you is how we can feel
comfortable that we won't have the same problem from the
other side when it comes to Maha Institute or anybody else. Right, So,
what I don't want, like, I don't want Kelloggs and
(07:56):
Coca Cola and Big Sugar telling me what the right
thing to eat because I don't trust them.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
I also don't want.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Sort of radical fringe anti vax groups and you know
groups who only will ever eat any you know, all.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Vegans all the time and all.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
I don't want to have the data manipulated from the
other side. How can you make me feel comfortable that
what you guys are going to do is true, honest
science and not just the other side, the other fringe. Right?
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Well, I think that the Maha Institute is part of
a broader freedom movement to be honest with you, and
so I think the gold standard science is so in
the radical Transparency is about having.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
You evaluate the facts.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Nobody should be making these decisions for you, not Kellogg's,
not some institute. It's about giving you the information so
that you can make an educated choice for you and
for your family. That's what Children's Health Defense is about.
That's what the Maha Institute is going to be about.
Giving you the information that's truthful, information that's science based,
and then you decide what's right for you.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
What would be a website or two where my listeners
could learn more if they are so inclined.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Maha Institute dot us for Maha Institute and Children's Health
Defense dot org for Children's Health Defense.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Mary Holland is President and General Counsel of Children's Health Defense.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Thanks for your time, interesting conversation.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
I think we both look forward to reading that report,
so thanks for being here.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Thank you,
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