Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
My next guest, Juell joins me in studio, which is
pretty fabulous. Is way more popular than he was two
years ago. Assessor Toby Damage is the Arapo. I'm sorry
Douglas County. I said Rappo because I live in Rapa
is the Douglas County assessor, and he's the dude who
has to deal with property valuations for purposes of property
(00:22):
tax assessments.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
And before we talk.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
About what's going on right now, just very very brief retrospective.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
What was it like for you two years ago?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
It was a nightmare. It was as much of a
nightmare for the property owners who have to you know,
had to deal with their increased values. As you know,
this is for our staff. We had in Douglas County
one out of every four proper homeowners filed an appeal.
That is ten times the average. It was absolutely out
of control, and but we understood that. Yeah, we were
(00:53):
the average value up forty percent or something. We were
at forty eight percent in Douglas County. Oh my gosh,
you know across the front range thirty fifth, sixty percent. Yeah,
the mountain communities were eighty ninety percent.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Dude, I had to sell my house because the property
tax increase stood. I sold my house and I moved.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
So and what percentage of those people who filed the
appeals is that the right word?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Yeah, got a reduction in property taxes.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
I don't know statewide nor front range ride, but in
Douglas County, through the three different levels of appeal, because
it's not just one, it's three, we adjusted almost exactly
fifty percent of the homeowners who filed an appeal.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Oh and that was a record high for us.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Yeah. Usually we're a little lower number, thirty forty somewhere
in there. That's already high, pretty high. Yeah, so it
was incredible. We if we found a reason to adjust,
we did it because we understood the extreme natures.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Okay, I'm going to come back to that in one second.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
So most people, if they're going to appeal, they do
the first level of appeal. And most people, I think,
whether or not they win, probably even if they don't win,
maybe don't do the next steps because they're harder and
they're more involved.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
It's correct, it's more involved, it's more work. You've got
to put that first level. You really don't have to
put much effort and be honest, So return a post guard,
to go online, clicks to your appeal CBUE level, second level,
maybe ten percent continue on.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
And of the people who continue on, which means they
didn't get what they wanted the first time around, what
percentage of the people who go through those two steps
do get a reduction? Did get a reduction?
Speaker 3 (02:31):
This question all the time, and I generally tell people
one third to one half at each level, get an
adjustment a third to one half, right, So it's worth.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
It for a lot of people to do that.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Yeah, Okay, gosh, you said something else a moment ago
that I wanted to respond to, but I don't remember
what it was. So this year now, so last year
average of forty eight percent in Douglas County, what's it
looking like this year for the average change in residential
property value?
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Yeah, so the Douglas kind of average change is actually
down three and a half percent. But I think the
bigger headline is this values are flat in the metro
area and across the front range. The vast majority of
homeowners are seeing a negative ten to a positive ten
value change centator around zero. So whether you're in Douglas,
a rapa Hoe, Adams, Denver, we're all seeing flat value changes,
(03:23):
and the difference really is what neighborhood you're in. And
you've got some neighborhoods where there's been more demand than others.
I heard Keith at Denver talk about Cherry Creek both
commercial and residential the other day went up and so
there's a lot of demand happening in Cherry Creek. So
if you look at any county and you get to
dig into the neighborhoods, we got slightly different answers at
the neighborhood level, but everything is really close to zero.
(03:45):
You get out of the metro area, you get into
the resort communities. You've got listeners statewide, right, So you
get in those resort communities and they're giving us some
different answers. They're still going up positive double ditch. It's
positive ten, positive twenty, and so different answer for some
of those communities.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
I'm not an expert on on doug Co. I've thought
of doug Co as more, especially lately, kind of suburban
kinds of communities. But I'm sure there's some rural in
Dougco too. A lot of rural, Okay, I guess towards
the south, towards the south side of Doug co So,
is there is there a difference that you can generalize
(04:22):
about regarding changes in valuation again for residential property in
the highlands, ranch loan tree suburban parts versus the southern
parts of the county that are more rural or were
they kind of similar very similar?
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Actually, I think there's still you know, because of the
affordability issue. I mean, you know, and we've talked a
lot about the fact the cost of home ownership in
Colorado is about the highest in the country, and it's
the highest on record in the state of Colorado. You
put everything that it costs to own and manage a
house together, it's extraordinarily expensive, which means lower price neighborhoods
(04:59):
are stay and doing better. So if there's a kindo
for sale, they're selling fast. You get into a three
million dollar rural property, it hasn't sell in a week,
get on the market longer. So there's a different buyer
seller dynamic happening. But in terms of pricing, they're still
relatively close. Right. We didn't see huge price collapses. We
didn't see any subgroup of properties go way up in
(05:21):
the suburban markets.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
And that's true.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Rappa Hoo Adams, Jeff co a lot of similar experience
in those different places.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Okay, I've got a bunch of listener questions, and I
think I'll probably start plowing through these rather than come
with more of my own. If you have a question
for Toby Damash, who is the Douglas County assessor and
it you know, obviously he'll know more about Douglas County,
but the behavior, the trends, what's going on in most
(05:49):
of these counties right around Denver are going to be
pretty similar. So even if you're not in Dougcoe, you
can send a question if you have one. One listener
who was paying close attention. Remember what it was you
said that I wanted to respond to. Okay, you said,
if we saw a reason to lower someone's property taxes
when they did appeals last time around, we did, And
(06:11):
I wanted to give you a moment to elaborate on
this a little bit, because I actually frequently came to
the defense of assessor's offices last time around, when a
lot of people were saying they're just the government and
they want all our money.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
And I said, well, I get that, but.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Actually the assessor's office, first of all, they don't get
your money. And second of all, these are like normal
people with their own homes as well.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
They understand what we're going through.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
And I said on the air, but this it was
speculation on my part, not knowledge that I think they
want to help us.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Can you just talk a little bit about that, and
then we'll go through some listener questions.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
First two things, we're very aware of your engagement in
this topic. Think there's any other radio show in the
state of Colorado that's been so engaged on this. And
it was a big issue for two straight years, and
we're all paying for it. I mean, taxes went up,
our values went up in twenty three fifty percent. Well,
taxes went up thirty percent. They didn't fix anything. Man,
it's a problem, right it and it increased this issue
(07:18):
of cost of home ownership, homeownership, homeowner interest rates are up,
insurance is up, all of that's up. So it's it's
painful for all of us. So we are all homeowners, right,
and my staff are all homeowners. Two thirds of them
are real estate appraisers. They all own a home, some
of them in Douglas County, some of them in a
Rapo and so on. So they feel this pain like
(07:40):
everyone else, the staff in our office has received no benefit.
In fact, it's much harder and much worse to deny
these appeals, and it's much easier to adjust them. We
had there's like.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
If you deny it, do you then have to be
a witness at the CV at the next level.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Yeah, we've had it work for ourselves, so it's much
easier in many ways to go ahead and adjust it.
In twenty twenty two, there was broad acknowledgment that this
was really a crisis. This is a very serious situation.
Property taxes should not go up thirty percent one year.
That should never happen ever anywhere in the world, you know,
but we let it happen here. And so there was
(08:16):
a vast awareness of that staff are paying taxes. So
there's a lot of sympathy. So we're looking for what
is it about this appeal that we receive that we
can use the hook?
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Hook? What's the justification?
Speaker 3 (08:30):
And if we if we were given one, or we
found one, then we'd use it.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Certainly, what made you believe or know or whatever that
I have been actively involved in this issue?
Speaker 3 (08:41):
I mean it's true, but how do you listener? Okay,
So I've got your I've got KOA on planing on
my office and annoys my staff because KOA is always blasting.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
So that's how I know, that's how you do.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
All right, let's see, I got a lot of listener questions.
I'm just going to go actually one more of my own.
Any important difference in assessment valuation trends between residential and commercial?
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Yeah, well, I think the headline is that the commercial
is pretty flat too. So that's interesting because usually they're different.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
All right.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Locations are usually different, Counties are usually different.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
This is unusual.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
This is because everything feels the same. But there are exceptions.
I mentioned Cherry Creek that's a standout as a neighborhood
goes residential and commercial. And Douglas County we reduced our
big office building significantly because we have because of the
work from home trend and other things going on in
the office space. You've talked about them in the radio.
We've had some discounted sales of large office spaces in
(09:37):
the South Tech Center, so we responded to that by
reducing our large office building value significantly.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
I'll give you a little story. So for people who
are driving on I twenty five near Spear on the
west side of the highway, there's a big complex I
think it's four buildings kind of towards the Highlands neighborhood
called Diamond Hill, and you can see it from the
highway and there are four sort of old buildings. I
own a fraction a percent of that from an investment
I made probably twenty years ago, no more than that,
(10:04):
twenty five before I lived in Colorado, And recently the
company that's been managing it says the value of that
property now is prob least somewhere close to zero because
there's so little demand for office space that probably all
that is going to be done with that property is
to knock those buildings down and.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Use that land for something else. Absolutely, that's not just
one example that's happening. In Douglas County. We've got a
property that was a trophy office building property I don't
name which one that was acquired. Yeah, and they're going
to tear it down or redevelopment. Oh my god, I'm
going one hundred and twenty thousand square foot building that's
only twenty years old and it's going to be gone.
All right, that's an interesting situation, all.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Right, We'll go through questions as quickly as we can. Here.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
I'm going to paraphrase this one because it's long. This
listener has six rental properties. Five of them the assessment
were flattered down in the six to one the property tripled.
It's a plain house but mixed use, and the main
floor is commercial, the basement is residential rental. Was there
any change in law that could have changed that, like
(11:07):
having the commercial part suddenly be worth a lot more
or something.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
I would call your assessor, whether that's us or another one,
immediately and ask what happened, because there's something going on
with that property that they changed in the record. It
might have changed the use breakdown or apportionment of use.
You know that the com non residential rates are four
times residential rates. So if as an assessor viewed that
and said, wait a minute, this isn't half commercial, it's
(11:31):
eighty percent commercial, that's what might make that happen.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Right, Or if it was if it was categorized as
all residential and then they made half of it commercial, yes, right,
that could I would have done it.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
That could be a ross. I'm in a Rappo County.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
At the bottom of the postcard, it says seniors over
sixty five and living in a house for ten years
can qualify for a property tax exemption. What can you
tell us about this. I'm sure not just a county thing.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
This must be a state say, a statewide thing has
got the senior property tax exemption. And it astonishes me
that not everyone's taking advantage of this. If you're sixty
five year older, you own and live in the home
for ten years, you get one hundred thousand dollars of
value cut off before the tax is calculated.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
But it's not automatic. You have to apply for. You
have to apply for.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
You have to apply because we don't know right, we
don't know ages of everyone. So every county assessor has
an application. You apply with your county assessor and then
you can do that via email, in person, online. They're
going to process the application. And if you're wondering, well,
what happens to those tax dollars, the State of Colorado
reimburses the local authorities who lose funds from that god,
(12:34):
so that is funded through the State of Colorado budget.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
We're talking with Toby Damash, who is the assessor for
Douglas County. I'm just going through some listener questions, if
my tax assessment drops twenty three percent, does that mean
my property tax bill.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Will go down by twenty three percent? I hope so.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
But you mentioned law changes to law, and since Gallagher
was repealed, you've spoken about the Gallagher Amendment. It was
repealed in twenty twenty, you remember that. And in the
past four years, we've had major proper tax legislation every
year and that has made to the question that has
made calculation of tax is really difficult because the laws
(13:12):
gotten really complicated. So we can't even give people an
estimated tax now. So what's going to happen is the
tax rates, the mill levies are going to be determined
this fall and will know what the final tax bills
are later in the year. So if your value is flat,
we hope that your taxes will be flat, but we
won't know it to the end of the year.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Unfortunately, I have a manufactured home on a foundation. The
zoning for the area was changed and the new valuation
went up a lot.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Is it possible for a thirty year old building.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
To have a big jump like this because of a
zoning change?
Speaker 3 (13:43):
This is a great question. I don't know if it's
about this. First of all, zoning change can cause a
big jump because if you go from a low density
use to a high density use, that increases the value.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Automatic.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Yes, so I think they went from mixed use to residential.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Well, that means their taxes should go down. So there's
two things there. Let me say this. You're asking about
anomalies manufactured housing in the state of Colorado. Values have exploded,
but it's the values of the park and the values
of the home. The prices in the past fee they
continue to go up. They went up fifty percent in
the last three appraisal. They're going on fifty percent again.
So it's one of the anomalies. Wow and outliers. Yes,
(14:18):
so owners of manufacturer homes are going to notice big
differences this year.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
If I want to protest the assessment, what's the time
period for comparable sales and how many comfortable sales should
I have?
Speaker 3 (14:28):
So first get your appeal in before June eighth. That's
the most important thing because that's the deadline of file
and appeal. The study period for providing comps is July
one of twenty twenty two through June thirty, twenty twenty four.
So the two year period since the last three appraisal
gain in July twenty two through June and twenty four.
(14:49):
Do not give us sales after June thirty of twenty four,
we can't use them.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
What should you include?
Speaker 1 (14:57):
What information should you include about your home that the
assessor might not know?
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Well, you answered the question answers itself. Tell us what
we don't know. Yeah, and we don't get into houses.
We don't want to be inside people's houses. So what's
going on inside your house? Do you have major condition issues?
Is there a bunch of stuff that's not broken. We
had a lot of growth here throughout the front range
of the nineties, and a lot of those homes have
been updated. A lot of them haven't. Right, We've got
a lot of homes in the nineties that have never
(15:25):
been touched.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Right, bought?
Speaker 1 (15:26):
I told you about the house I bought. Yeah, it
was built in nineteen seventy five and never updated.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah. See, so we need to know that you can.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
So what you're send in pictures not just a statement,
but sending pictures like this thing is a bad condition
and therefore shouldn't be valued this high.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
It's not less per square F're a neighboring out. We
can't do anything without pictures. This statement tells us what's
going on, but give us photographs.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Do disabled veterans have any better chance at reducing property taxes?
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Or do there anything else for.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Disabled veterans in this we When we review an appeal,
we're not looking at names, our ownership up. We're just
looking at the real estate. But there is an exemption
identical to the senior exemption for disabled veterans. So if
you're a disabled vet, contact your local assessor, go to
the website or call them and ask them if you
qualify for the Disabled Veteran exemption, which is the same
(16:16):
as the senior one hundred thousand dollars off the top
of the value.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
If you're a.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Disabled veterans senior, do you get both or you don't
one the other one or the other. Is there anything
else you want to add for listeners as far as
recommendations to give the best chance of success on appeal.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Well, I think we talked about it.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Tell us what we wouldn't know about and sometimes you know,
I like to say you are the expert in your neighborhood,
and we are using the sales from your neighborhood.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
To value your home.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
So is there something that that when we send you
your notice and you look at value and you're not
liking it or doesn't make sense to you, is there
something about the sales that occurred in your immediate area
that we might not know about, And sometimes that can
help us. Actually, I remember a story you told, I
think a couple of years ago, because you had appealed
your proper if you remember correctly, Ross, and did you
(17:02):
find one of the comps that the assessor used had
some story issue with it, a sale between family members
or something like that. We don't know all those stories,
and so that can help us if we're like, the
best comp is one, look at the father sold to
the son.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
That's why it was crazy.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
And we only have about a minute here, but I'll
just so it was it was a family that came
from an older couple that came in from California that
wanted to buy a house near their grandkids. And they
had missed two houses and they and they were very rich,
and they didn't care. So they went to my neighbor
who had her house for sale, and said, we'll pay
you in cash a million over your asking price. And
(17:40):
they did and that was in the comps, and actually
the assessor, the staffer said to me, I never thought
this should be in the comps.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
But you know what was also really interesting. I said, well,
what take it out for everybody? And he said, I can't.
That part's done. I'll take it out for everybody who
appeals who has that in their comps, because it shouldn't
have been in there. But I can't go back and
take it out for everybody.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
He is correct.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
We can't go in there and in him fix two
hundred values that I already went out unless there is
some sort of systemic error, like we really messed up
a neighborhood and this in Douglas County.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
We did this.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
There's a neighborhood called Inspiration, which you might know I do,
and we went in there and we saw a high
appeal rate when we started reviewing appeals. Is how a
high adjustment wright We went in there and adjusted the
whole neighborhood in twenty twenty three. So that does happen
from ten to time.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
As far as the ten year thing for seniors, yeah,
does it start? Does the ten years start on the
day you close on the property?
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Correct? Yeah, okay, all right, we're out of time.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
But I did I put anything in your head that
you want to make sure to say to listeners before
we go.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Yeah, before you decide to an appeal, just look at
the value. Ask ask this question, could you have sold
your house for that amount in June of twenty four,
Because that's a question we're going to be asking.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Very good and I should note. Let's see I lost
this here here listener text. Toby has a video on
the Douglas County Assessor website on how to file an appeal.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
It's very helpful, that's true.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Yeah, we did that in twenty three because we know
we're going to get thousands of them, so that now
that video is specific to our site. All the rules
are the same for every assessor. So but I walked
through how to file an appeal in Douglas County. It's
similar to other camp. All right, I don't want to
make Mandy late. We're already about one minute in.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
But since Toby is your county's assessor, do you want
to ask any property tax question while he's here?
Speaker 4 (19:28):
No, I just want to say big thank you for
the twenty grand introduction.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
I'll take it, all right, oh, you got yours already. Yeah,
we got ours the other day. Mine's probably in my mailbox.
You sure to understand what I got mine? Last year?
Speaker 4 (19:38):
I was like, can I just have the county write
a check to me for this amount? Because I thought
it was way.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Out a line right. We got that online.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
It was like, none of my neighbors or none of
the comps match did I pay attention to?
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Did you appeal last year?
Speaker 4 (19:48):
I did and we got turned down, So thanks for that.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
But anyway, so do you think that your evaluation is
kind of close to I think
Speaker 4 (19:54):
It's much more accurate now than it was before.
My next guest, Juell joins me in studio, which is
pretty fabulous. Is way more popular than he was two
years ago. Assessor Toby Damage is the Arapo. I'm sorry
Douglas County. I said Rappo because I live in Rapa
is the Douglas County assessor, and he's the dude who
has to deal with property valuations for purposes of property
(00:22):
tax assessments.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
And before we talk.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
About what's going on right now, just very very brief retrospective.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
What was it like for you two years ago?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
It was a nightmare. It was as much of a
nightmare for the property owners who have to you know,
had to deal with their increased values. As you know,
this is for our staff. We had in Douglas County
one out of every four proper homeowners filed an appeal.
That is ten times the average. It was absolutely out
of control, and but we understood that. Yeah, we were
(00:53):
the average value up forty percent or something. We were
at forty eight percent in Douglas County. Oh my gosh,
you know across the front range thirty fifth, sixty percent. Yeah,
the mountain communities were eighty ninety percent.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Dude, I had to sell my house because the property
tax increase stood. I sold my house and I moved.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
So and what percentage of those people who filed the
appeals is that the right word?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Yeah, got a reduction in property taxes.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
I don't know statewide nor front range ride, but in
Douglas County, through the three different levels of appeal, because
it's not just one, it's three, we adjusted almost exactly
fifty percent of the homeowners who filed an appeal.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Oh and that was a record high for us.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Yeah. Usually we're a little lower number, thirty forty somewhere
in there. That's already high, pretty high. Yeah, so it
was incredible. We if we found a reason to adjust,
we did it because we understood the extreme natures.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Okay, I'm going to come back to that in one second.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
So most people, if they're going to appeal, they do
the first level of appeal. And most people, I think,
whether or not they win, probably even if they don't win,
maybe don't do the next steps because they're harder and
they're more involved.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
It's correct, it's more involved, it's more work. You've got
to put that first level. You really don't have to
put much effort and be honest, So return a post guard,
to go online, clicks to your appeal CBUE level, second level,
maybe ten percent continue on.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
And of the people who continue on, which means they
didn't get what they wanted the first time around, what
percentage of the people who go through those two steps
do get a reduction? Did get a reduction?
Speaker 3 (02:31):
This question all the time, and I generally tell people
one third to one half at each level, get an
adjustment a third to one half, right, So it's worth.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
It for a lot of people to do that.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Yeah, Okay, gosh, you said something else a moment ago
that I wanted to respond to, but I don't remember
what it was. So this year now, so last year
average of forty eight percent in Douglas County, what's it
looking like this year for the average change in residential
property value?
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Yeah, so the Douglas kind of average change is actually
down three and a half percent. But I think the
bigger headline is this values are flat in the metro
area and across the front range. The vast majority of
homeowners are seeing a negative ten to a positive ten
value change centator around zero. So whether you're in Douglas,
a rapa Hoe, Adams, Denver, we're all seeing flat value changes,
(03:23):
and the difference really is what neighborhood you're in. And
you've got some neighborhoods where there's been more demand than others.
I heard Keith at Denver talk about Cherry Creek both
commercial and residential the other day went up and so
there's a lot of demand happening in Cherry Creek. So
if you look at any county and you get to
dig into the neighborhoods, we got slightly different answers at
the neighborhood level, but everything is really close to zero.
(03:45):
You get out of the metro area, you get into
the resort communities. You've got listeners statewide, right, So you
get in those resort communities and they're giving us some
different answers. They're still going up positive double ditch. It's
positive ten, positive twenty, and so different answer for some
of those communities.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
I'm not an expert on on doug Co. I've thought
of doug Co as more, especially lately, kind of suburban
kinds of communities. But I'm sure there's some rural in
Dougco too. A lot of rural, Okay, I guess towards
the south, towards the south side of Doug co So,
is there is there a difference that you can generalize
(04:22):
about regarding changes in valuation again for residential property in
the highlands, ranch loan tree suburban parts versus the southern
parts of the county that are more rural or were
they kind of similar very similar?
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Actually, I think there's still you know, because of the
affordability issue. I mean, you know, and we've talked a
lot about the fact the cost of home ownership in
Colorado is about the highest in the country, and it's
the highest on record in the state of Colorado. You
put everything that it costs to own and manage a
house together, it's extraordinarily expensive, which means lower price neighborhoods
(04:59):
are stay and doing better. So if there's a kindo
for sale, they're selling fast. You get into a three
million dollar rural property, it hasn't sell in a week,
get on the market longer. So there's a different buyer
seller dynamic happening. But in terms of pricing, they're still
relatively close. Right. We didn't see huge price collapses. We
didn't see any subgroup of properties go way up in
(05:21):
the suburban markets.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
And that's true.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Rappa Hoo Adams, Jeff co a lot of similar experience
in those different places.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Okay, I've got a bunch of listener questions, and I
think I'll probably start plowing through these rather than come
with more of my own. If you have a question
for Toby Damash, who is the Douglas County assessor and
it you know, obviously he'll know more about Douglas County,
but the behavior, the trends, what's going on in most
(05:49):
of these counties right around Denver are going to be
pretty similar. So even if you're not in Dougcoe, you
can send a question if you have one. One listener
who was paying close attention. Remember what it was you
said that I wanted to respond to. Okay, you said,
if we saw a reason to lower someone's property taxes
when they did appeals last time around, we did, And
(06:11):
I wanted to give you a moment to elaborate on
this a little bit, because I actually frequently came to
the defense of assessor's offices last time around, when a
lot of people were saying they're just the government and
they want all our money.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
And I said, well, I get that, but.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Actually the assessor's office, first of all, they don't get
your money. And second of all, these are like normal
people with their own homes as well.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
They understand what we're going through.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
And I said on the air, but this it was
speculation on my part, not knowledge that I think they
want to help us.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Can you just talk a little bit about that, and
then we'll go through some listener questions.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
First two things, we're very aware of your engagement in
this topic. Think there's any other radio show in the
state of Colorado that's been so engaged on this. And
it was a big issue for two straight years, and
we're all paying for it. I mean, taxes went up,
our values went up in twenty three fifty percent. Well,
taxes went up thirty percent. They didn't fix anything. Man,
it's a problem, right it and it increased this issue
(07:18):
of cost of home ownership, homeownership, homeowner interest rates are up,
insurance is up, all of that's up. So it's it's
painful for all of us. So we are all homeowners, right,
and my staff are all homeowners. Two thirds of them
are real estate appraisers. They all own a home, some
of them in Douglas County, some of them in a
Rapo and so on. So they feel this pain like
(07:40):
everyone else, the staff in our office has received no benefit.
In fact, it's much harder and much worse to deny
these appeals, and it's much easier to adjust them. We
had there's like.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
If you deny it, do you then have to be
a witness at the CV at the next level.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Yeah, we've had it work for ourselves, so it's much
easier in many ways to go ahead and adjust it.
In twenty twenty two, there was broad acknowledgment that this
was really a crisis. This is a very serious situation.
Property taxes should not go up thirty percent one year.
That should never happen ever anywhere in the world, you know,
but we let it happen here. And so there was
(08:16):
a vast awareness of that staff are paying taxes. So
there's a lot of sympathy. So we're looking for what
is it about this appeal that we receive that we
can use the hook?
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Hook? What's the justification?
Speaker 3 (08:30):
And if we if we were given one, or we
found one, then we'd use it.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Certainly, what made you believe or know or whatever that
I have been actively involved in this issue?
Speaker 3 (08:41):
I mean it's true, but how do you listener? Okay,
So I've got your I've got KOA on planing on
my office and annoys my staff because KOA is always blasting.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
So that's how I know, that's how you do.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
All right, let's see, I got a lot of listener questions.
I'm just going to go actually one more of my own.
Any important difference in assessment valuation trends between residential and commercial?
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Yeah, well, I think the headline is that the commercial
is pretty flat too. So that's interesting because usually they're different.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
All right.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Locations are usually different, Counties are usually different.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
This is unusual.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
This is because everything feels the same. But there are exceptions.
I mentioned Cherry Creek that's a standout as a neighborhood
goes residential and commercial. And Douglas County we reduced our
big office building significantly because we have because of the
work from home trend and other things going on in
the office space. You've talked about them in the radio.
We've had some discounted sales of large office spaces in
(09:37):
the South Tech Center, so we responded to that by
reducing our large office building value significantly.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
I'll give you a little story. So for people who
are driving on I twenty five near Spear on the
west side of the highway, there's a big complex I
think it's four buildings kind of towards the Highlands neighborhood
called Diamond Hill, and you can see it from the
highway and there are four sort of old buildings. I
own a fraction a percent of that from an investment
I made probably twenty years ago, no more than that,
(10:04):
twenty five before I lived in Colorado, And recently the
company that's been managing it says the value of that
property now is prob least somewhere close to zero because
there's so little demand for office space that probably all
that is going to be done with that property is
to knock those buildings down and.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Use that land for something else. Absolutely, that's not just
one example that's happening. In Douglas County. We've got a
property that was a trophy office building property I don't
name which one that was acquired. Yeah, and they're going
to tear it down or redevelopment. Oh my god, I'm
going one hundred and twenty thousand square foot building that's
only twenty years old and it's going to be gone.
All right, that's an interesting situation, all.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Right, We'll go through questions as quickly as we can. Here.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
I'm going to paraphrase this one because it's long. This
listener has six rental properties. Five of them the assessment
were flattered down in the six to one the property tripled.
It's a plain house but mixed use, and the main
floor is commercial, the basement is residential rental. Was there
any change in law that could have changed that, like
(11:07):
having the commercial part suddenly be worth a lot more
or something.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
I would call your assessor, whether that's us or another one,
immediately and ask what happened, because there's something going on
with that property that they changed in the record. It
might have changed the use breakdown or apportionment of use.
You know that the com non residential rates are four
times residential rates. So if as an assessor viewed that
and said, wait a minute, this isn't half commercial, it's
(11:31):
eighty percent commercial, that's what might make that happen.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Right, Or if it was if it was categorized as
all residential and then they made half of it commercial, yes, right,
that could I would have done it.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
That could be a ross. I'm in a Rappo County.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
At the bottom of the postcard, it says seniors over
sixty five and living in a house for ten years
can qualify for a property tax exemption. What can you
tell us about this. I'm sure not just a county thing.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
This must be a state say, a statewide thing has
got the senior property tax exemption. And it astonishes me
that not everyone's taking advantage of this. If you're sixty
five year older, you own and live in the home
for ten years, you get one hundred thousand dollars of
value cut off before the tax is calculated.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
But it's not automatic. You have to apply for. You
have to apply for.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
You have to apply because we don't know right, we
don't know ages of everyone. So every county assessor has
an application. You apply with your county assessor and then
you can do that via email, in person, online. They're
going to process the application. And if you're wondering, well,
what happens to those tax dollars, the State of Colorado
reimburses the local authorities who lose funds from that god,
(12:34):
so that is funded through the State of Colorado budget.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
We're talking with Toby Damash, who is the assessor for
Douglas County. I'm just going through some listener questions, if
my tax assessment drops twenty three percent, does that mean
my property tax bill.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Will go down by twenty three percent? I hope so.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
But you mentioned law changes to law, and since Gallagher
was repealed, you've spoken about the Gallagher Amendment. It was
repealed in twenty twenty, you remember that. And in the
past four years, we've had major proper tax legislation every
year and that has made to the question that has
made calculation of tax is really difficult because the laws
(13:12):
gotten really complicated. So we can't even give people an
estimated tax now. So what's going to happen is the
tax rates, the mill levies are going to be determined
this fall and will know what the final tax bills
are later in the year. So if your value is flat,
we hope that your taxes will be flat, but we
won't know it to the end of the year.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Unfortunately, I have a manufactured home on a foundation. The
zoning for the area was changed and the new valuation
went up a lot.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Is it possible for a thirty year old building.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
To have a big jump like this because of a
zoning change?
Speaker 3 (13:43):
This is a great question. I don't know if it's
about this. First of all, zoning change can cause a
big jump because if you go from a low density
use to a high density use, that increases the value.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Automatic.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Yes, so I think they went from mixed use to residential.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Well, that means their taxes should go down. So there's
two things there. Let me say this. You're asking about
anomalies manufactured housing in the state of Colorado. Values have exploded,
but it's the values of the park and the values
of the home. The prices in the past fee they
continue to go up. They went up fifty percent in
the last three appraisal. They're going on fifty percent again.
So it's one of the anomalies. Wow and outliers. Yes,
(14:18):
so owners of manufacturer homes are going to notice big
differences this year.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
If I want to protest the assessment, what's the time
period for comparable sales and how many comfortable sales should
I have?
Speaker 3 (14:28):
So first get your appeal in before June eighth. That's
the most important thing because that's the deadline of file
and appeal. The study period for providing comps is July
one of twenty twenty two through June thirty, twenty twenty four.
So the two year period since the last three appraisal
gain in July twenty two through June and twenty four.
(14:49):
Do not give us sales after June thirty of twenty four,
we can't use them.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
What should you include?
Speaker 1 (14:57):
What information should you include about your home that the
assessor might not know?
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Well, you answered the question answers itself. Tell us what
we don't know. Yeah, and we don't get into houses.
We don't want to be inside people's houses. So what's
going on inside your house? Do you have major condition issues?
Is there a bunch of stuff that's not broken. We
had a lot of growth here throughout the front range
of the nineties, and a lot of those homes have
been updated. A lot of them haven't. Right, We've got
a lot of homes in the nineties that have never
(15:25):
been touched.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Right, bought?
Speaker 1 (15:26):
I told you about the house I bought. Yeah, it
was built in nineteen seventy five and never updated.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah. See, so we need to know that you can.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
So what you're send in pictures not just a statement,
but sending pictures like this thing is a bad condition
and therefore shouldn't be valued this high.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
It's not less per square F're a neighboring out. We
can't do anything without pictures. This statement tells us what's
going on, but give us photographs.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Do disabled veterans have any better chance at reducing property taxes?
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Or do there anything else for.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Disabled veterans in this we When we review an appeal,
we're not looking at names, our ownership up. We're just
looking at the real estate. But there is an exemption
identical to the senior exemption for disabled veterans. So if
you're a disabled vet, contact your local assessor, go to
the website or call them and ask them if you
qualify for the Disabled Veteran exemption, which is the same
(16:16):
as the senior one hundred thousand dollars off the top
of the value.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
If you're a.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Disabled veterans senior, do you get both or you don't
one the other one or the other. Is there anything
else you want to add for listeners as far as
recommendations to give the best chance of success on appeal.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Well, I think we talked about it.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Tell us what we wouldn't know about and sometimes you know,
I like to say you are the expert in your neighborhood,
and we are using the sales from your neighborhood.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
To value your home.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
So is there something that that when we send you
your notice and you look at value and you're not
liking it or doesn't make sense to you, is there
something about the sales that occurred in your immediate area
that we might not know about, And sometimes that can
help us. Actually, I remember a story you told, I
think a couple of years ago, because you had appealed
your proper if you remember correctly, Ross, and did you
(17:02):
find one of the comps that the assessor used had
some story issue with it, a sale between family members
or something like that. We don't know all those stories,
and so that can help us if we're like, the
best comp is one, look at the father sold to
the son.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
That's why it was crazy.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
And we only have about a minute here, but I'll
just so it was it was a family that came
from an older couple that came in from California that
wanted to buy a house near their grandkids. And they
had missed two houses and they and they were very rich,
and they didn't care. So they went to my neighbor
who had her house for sale, and said, we'll pay
you in cash a million over your asking price. And
(17:40):
they did and that was in the comps, and actually
the assessor, the staffer said to me, I never thought
this should be in the comps.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
But you know what was also really interesting. I said, well,
what take it out for everybody? And he said, I can't.
That part's done. I'll take it out for everybody who
appeals who has that in their comps, because it shouldn't
have been in there. But I can't go back and
take it out for everybody.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
He is correct.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
We can't go in there and in him fix two
hundred values that I already went out unless there is
some sort of systemic error, like we really messed up
a neighborhood and this in Douglas County.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
We did this.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
There's a neighborhood called Inspiration, which you might know I do,
and we went in there and we saw a high
appeal rate when we started reviewing appeals. Is how a
high adjustment wright We went in there and adjusted the
whole neighborhood in twenty twenty three. So that does happen
from ten to time.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
As far as the ten year thing for seniors, yeah,
does it start? Does the ten years start on the
day you close on the property?
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Correct? Yeah, okay, all right, we're out of time.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
But I did I put anything in your head that
you want to make sure to say to listeners before
we go.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Yeah, before you decide to an appeal, just look at
the value. Ask ask this question, could you have sold
your house for that amount in June of twenty four,
Because that's a question we're going to be asking.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Very good and I should note. Let's see I lost
this here here listener text. Toby has a video on
the Douglas County Assessor website on how to file an appeal.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
It's very helpful, that's true.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Yeah, we did that in twenty three because we know
we're going to get thousands of them, so that now
that video is specific to our site. All the rules
are the same for every assessor. So but I walked
through how to file an appeal in Douglas County. It's
similar to other camp. All right, I don't want to
make Mandy late. We're already about one minute in.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
But since Toby is your county's assessor, do you want
to ask any property tax question while he's here?
Speaker 4 (19:28):
No, I just want to say big thank you for
the twenty grand introduction.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
I'll take it, all right, oh, you got yours already. Yeah,
we got ours the other day. Mine's probably in my mailbox.
You sure to understand what I got mine? Last year?
Speaker 4 (19:38):
I was like, can I just have the county write
a check to me for this amount? Because I thought
it was way.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Out a line right. We got that online.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
It was like, none of my neighbors or none of
the comps match did I pay attention to?
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Did you appeal last year?
Speaker 4 (19:48):
I did and we got turned down, So thanks for that.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
But anyway, so do you think that your evaluation is
kind of close to I think
Speaker 4 (19:54):
It's much more accurate now than it was before.
The Ross Kaminsky Show News
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