June 11, 2025 • 20 mins
A few weeks ago, I had the chance to meet Wyoming Governor Mark Gordon at an energy-related event hosted by the Common Sense Institute. I was very impressed with his deep knowledge on a wide range of issues, particularly energy and education. I asked the gov if he'd be willing to join me on the show and he said "absolutely". Of course, KOA has listeners in Wyoming!
Mark Gordon | WGA
Mark Gordon - Wikipedia
Some things we'll discuss: The state's own Stable Token, Energy, Education, Innovation. Nuclear Power. "Govt closest to the people is the most effective." Rare Earth Minerals.Wyoming Innovation Partnership
Wyoming Stable Token Commission
Mark Gordon | WGA
Mark Gordon - Wikipedia
Some things we'll discuss: The state's own Stable Token, Energy, Education, Innovation. Nuclear Power. "Govt closest to the people is the most effective." Rare Earth Minerals.Wyoming Innovation Partnership
Wyoming Stable Token Commission
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I had a chance a few weeks ago to attend
an event that was primarily about energy over at the
Common Sense Institute, where I am a proud fellow the
Mike a Loprino Free Enterprise fellow, and one of the
key speakers that evening was the Governor of Wyoming, Mark Gordon,
(00:20):
and I was just very impressed with the guy.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
He was on top of so many.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Details, technical details, energy related stuff, and I learned that
he has worked in the energy industry, but he also
has has worked at the Federal Reserve and other such things.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
And there are just so many things.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Going on in Wyoming that he talked about that I
thought were fascinating that could be great lessons for Colorado,
for the rest of the country, and also for me.
There's just such a massive contrast in the fact that
there's a state right above us that I know is
going to sound dumb, but it's even like the same
shape is Colorado.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
It's right next to us.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
The line dividing us is invisible, and yet on one
side of the line, which is to say, the side
of the line I live on, there is an ongoing, aggressive,
persistent erosion and attack on freedom and fiscal sanity, and
on the other side of the line, where Mark Gordon
(01:23):
is running the place, and where they've got smarter voters
who elect someone like Mark Gordon, it's going the other way.
A lot of good policy, no state income tax, energy development,
and on and on. So I asked the governor if
you would join us on the show, and he kindly
agreed to do so. Mark Gordon, Welcome to KOA. I
know we got wyoming listeners on KOWA. Thanks for being here.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Ross. It's wonderful to be here, and you're very kind.
Let me put it that way. We have a great state.
We're always happy when Colorado shows up on the weekends
to enjoy recreation here. But most importantly, we're a great
region and we have tremendous amounts of resources. We should
unleash them and we should help our economy grow.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Okay, so I'm going to warn you and me at
the same time. You and I are both nerds who
have the tendency to get deep into detail.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
But we only have about sixteen minutes. So let's.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Exactly so let's try to keep it kind of sort
of high level so we can get through some things,
and then when we need to get through more things.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
I'll have you.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Back, but let's start with what you were talking about
when you and I first met, which was energy, And
I would like to just start with what you guys
are doing with nuclear energy.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Sure, sure, well it was exciting. A couple of years ago,
we were approached to host a new type of technology,
the Nate Frame reactor, also known as terror Power. It
is jointly funded by Bill Gates and the Department of Energy.
(03:04):
It's a sodium cool passively shut down modular design. It's
not a small modular nuclear reactor. It's sort of a
medium about three hundred megawatts, and it is being built
right now in western Wyoming. It's got a new type
of fuel system that produces about seventy percent less waste.
(03:32):
It's a phenomenal thing and we're very excited about that.
But we've also looked at small modular nuclear reactors. We've
got two companies in Wyoming, Babcock and Wilcox, who is
now BWXT does all a lot of the reactors for
our nuclear fleet. They're looking at small reactors both of
(03:55):
the military application, but also if you're a remote village,
let's say somewhere in a Alaska or something. This can
power you. Otherwise you're dependent on you know, having to
have fuel transported to you. If you're a let's say
a data center, this can also power your data center
(04:16):
before the before the meter. So that's another application. And
then we've got really small micro reactors that have specific
applications elsewhere, and that's more of a movable kind of
very small reactor that can that can go you know,
on site a couple of places. They go to almost
(04:37):
any size.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
I mean, do you think that if nuclear power got
enough foothold in Wyoming that you could drive the cost
of electricity in Wyoming down so much that you could
attract energy intensive manufacturing businesses to Wyoming?
Speaker 2 (04:54):
And is that part of your goal?
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Yeah, that is part of the goal. The other is
that you know, this new combonatory being modular, it can
benefit from mass production so you know, like we do
with cars and other things, not everything is customized, which
will reduce the costs. And so we're really looking at
being able to drive energy intensive manufacturing, advanced manufacturing around us,
(05:22):
to be able to export this technology really across the
country for lots of different applications. It is interesting because
you hear, you know, broadly. Now about all these old
sort of mothball plants like three Mile Island being restarted,
that's really old technology. It's kind of great that they're
coming back online, but we're really looking at safer, smaller,
(05:48):
more economic types of technology that can be built going forward.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
One very important question before we do more on energy,
are you going to to Colorado on September twentieth when
the Cowboys are going to be playing the Buffaloes in Boulder.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
I always I always like to go cheer my Cowboys on.
You know, that's always fun. That's always fun.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
So this you play, it's the Rams.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Versus the Cowboys and our old rivalry. But you know,
it'd be it'd be good to see coach Prime.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
So I mentioned this morning that President Trump had an
announcement about a deal with China, and in that deal
he talked about China's going to resume deliveries of rare
earth materials and magnets. And what I said to my
audience is that's fine, but at this point, we have
major American and non American industries that are utterly dependent
(06:51):
on China, not just for the raw material but for
the processing as well. And I said, we've got the
stuff in the United States. We don't have the processing
right now, but these materials are available in the United States.
And I know you're thinking about rarest a lot in Wyoming.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
You've got We've got three major finds in Wyoming, and
really what's exciting, we're turning on a new type of
separation technology, so processing in opt in Wyoming. It's a
place called Rare Element Resources r e R, and it's
(07:31):
a phenomenal find up in the Bear Launch District. It's
kind of fun to hear Internationally. We just were on
a trade mission in Japan and Taiwan. Both of them
had already heard about rarest element resources, and what they
were excited about was that they see the advent of
(07:53):
US production of critical and rare minerals as a sort
of a lifeline for the choke hold that China has
put on all of those resources. So right here in Wyoming,
we're not only have those rare earths, but we're also
looking at the processes that can drive them better, more environmentally, sound,
(08:15):
more economically, in a more modern fashion than what we
traditionally do. Now it's very exciting and we're General Dynamics
has been partnering with a couple of these corporations. I
think we're looking at Chris Right, Secretary of Energy, coming
out to visit some of them, so we're right at
(08:35):
the beginning of that process.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
My fear with this stuff, although it seems like the
Trump administration is already aware of all this and already
trying to get ahead of it, is radical environmentalists abusing
NEPA and other such laws to try to stop any
kind of work like this. And I know there was
an executive order already to try to throttle that back
a little bit. But what are your thoughts, and I
(08:58):
think this would apply to nuclear as well to some degree.
What are your thoughts at how you get around these
these often well funded gad flies who try to stop everything.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
No, I think that's that's one of the big challenges.
I'm actually working on an editorial at this point to
talk about. You know, NEBRA was not a bad law
when it first came out, but it's been corrupted over
the years with all the court cases and everything else,
to where it's become as you say, this, this this
process by which you can stop anything for whatever reason.
(09:34):
It needs to get back to those really critical, most
important substantial issues defined, and I think we've had this
administration really anxious to do that. So Lee Zelden new
Secretary or administrator for the e PA, Secretary Burgham, actually
Secretary Bergham, and I've worked on this issue for a
(09:56):
number of years. It's really frustrating because what we've done
is we've hamstrong ourselves from being able to advance the
sorts of technologies that we've really been able to do
in this country, where we mind better, we do it
more environmentally sound, with better labor conditions. We do all
(10:19):
of this in America, and yet we stop ourselves constantly poor.
I made that joke the other day at the Institute
where I was saying, you know, we've got a developer
here in Wyoming that has been twelve years, twelve years
(10:40):
just getting the permits to be able to provide energy
to southern California. That's all the things that they would want.
He worked on it for twelve years to get that done.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Unbelievable. Well, I shouldn't say it's unbelievable. It's believable.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
It's terrible, but it's believable because it's been going on
for so long. We are talking with Governor Mark Gordon
of Wyoming. A bunch of listeners have noted, and I
want to verify if this is true, even though of
course everything in Wikipedia is by definition true just by
being there.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
But are you related by marriage to George Patten?
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Yeah? Yeah, I am.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
That was so.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
My great grandmother was the sister of George Patten's wife.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
So is there any part of you that, like, do
you like to walk around with ivory handled pistols and
emulate emulate George Patten?
Speaker 3 (11:42):
I like my guns, but I don't have ivory handled pistols.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
So that's that's a That's a fine answer for a
Wyoming governor.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
All right, let's just.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Because there's so many things to talk about.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Let's let's move away from energy for now.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
And you mentioned something when you were here at CSI
about the Wyoming Innovation Partnership, and I thought this was
just one of the most interesting things I've heard in
a long time related to education and new ways to
think about education. And I was telling one of your
(12:18):
folks who I was talking with today. You know, you
guys in conservative results oriented states tend to judge government
project based on the results in the ROI in places
like where I live now just to the south of you.
They tend to be judged just simply based on how
much money is being spent. The more money is being spent,
(12:39):
the better the project must be.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
I like your way. Better tell me about WIP.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Yeah, well, thank you for that. Wyoming has somewhat limited
resources for everything, and being a conservative, if you want
to make sure that the investment that you make pay back.
So we suggested a few years ago as part of
a total rebuild and why I was a little bit
different than Caldwell, a little bit different, a lot different
(13:06):
than Colorado. But we have one university and we have
few community colleges. We wanted to be able to make
sure that they were all aligned. That was sort of
the formation of the WHIP analysis. We started from the bottom.
We talked about what's relevant, what's important, what are the
emerging industries, how can we engage the private sector to
(13:28):
be partners in that effort? And then most importantly, and
I think what you're talking about. Okay, so we've made
these investments, how are they paying back? What are the
metrics that we're using are there? You know, are our
people getting jobs? Are they of value? Do people find
value in what we're accomplishing with that, so we've we've actually,
(13:50):
for the first time looked at what that cost is.
Of course, there's going to be people that say, well,
you didn't look at this, you didn't look at that,
but we've made it open source. So if you've got
better ideas on how we can measure this, we want
to hear about it, because it really is about how
we should be funding education going forward. Is it relevant,
(14:11):
is it valuable? Does it move us forward as opposed
to we've always done it before and we just need
to do more of it.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
All right, So give me just thirty seconds on this
next part because then I want to do one last
topic with you, and don't worry about the WIP metrics.
I was just saying, I'm glad you are measuring them,
but just quickly, what exactly does WIP do.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Well, what it did is that it stood up a
program which allows for the private sector to come in.
So one example of this is our tourism industry and
they are funding the culinary arts and all the hospitality
(14:57):
piece that goes with that. Then not only that, but
then they're tracking how those graduates are performing in the industries.
Because we love Wyoming. We also want to know if
they're staying here, so there's a piece of that, and
then we're also asking them to give back to So.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
It's to me, it sounds something like a very advanced
public private partnership of highly focused trade schools.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Or are having some part of an educational.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
System be something like trade schools, but the public private
partnership make sure that the things that are being taught
are the things that there's actual demand for in the
economy right now.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Is that close?
Speaker 3 (15:41):
That is absolutely it. And then the other piece of
it is that we've freed up the instructors so that
they don't have to meet some sort of matrix or rubric,
but they can actually teach what's valuable. And it's almost
an immediate feedback.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
A listener says, I'm supposed to say to you Powder River,
letter Buck, and he said, that's what you would say.
I have no idea what that means. All right, where
do you keep going? You can't tell me later? Okay,
you're one of your staffers just told me about this
this morning and I had missed it, and it's just fascinating.
(16:19):
And we only have three minutes right now, so we'll
have to have you or one of your people back.
But tell me about the Wyoming Stable Token.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
So the Wyoming Stable Token is the first connected to
a state government digital coin. It is fully backed, It's
going to be backed by US treasuries. It's completely in
the open and transparent. It has a two percent over
over it so that we can always meet the requirements.
(16:53):
You're going to be able to redeem it at one
hundred percent of what you paid into it. You can
look at what we've done to back back it over time.
And the reason we did it at the state is
because the federal government is muckying about with our financial
system in such a way that we felt it was
important that people could say, here's the asset, this is
(17:13):
what it's worth. Not only that, but we're bringing back
a lot of that foreign investment of our treasuries back
into the country. So it's making our country stronger, making
our system of finances much more transparent and clear, and
it kind of gets rid of all the mucking about
(17:34):
that our federal government does with federal funding.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yeah, again, this probably requires a lot more time or
bourbon or both, but I doubt But and again, just
dumb it down for me here governor.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
So, how does a stable coin that is backed with
US dollar, US federal government assets do anything to protect
anybody from risks to the US dollar or treasuries or anything.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Or is that not really the goal?
Speaker 4 (18:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (18:08):
No, No, I think the goal is to say we
have one hundred you know, if you're buying a US treasury,
it's redeemable at one hundred percent of what it is.
Right back, Yeah, to add par so, this is all
short term. We're not trying to invest, We're not trying
to make a bunch of money. We just want to
make sure that we have an item that can be
used for settlement, that is not volatile, that is absolutely
(18:32):
predictable and visible. And we know, and this has been
one of the big frustrations going back to Obama, we
know that digital assets are going to have a role
in our economy going forward. There is a piece of
it that is about speculation. We don't want the Wyoming
stable token to be anything about speculation. We want it
(18:56):
to be a predictable form of settlement, something that and
I'm make this very clear, something that are small community
banks can take advantage of and not be pushed out
of the market by our larger banks. We need all
the banks that we have, but we want to make
sure that this becomes a particularly valuable asset for small
community banks that are kind of shut out of some
(19:18):
of the stuff right now by all the federal regulation.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Well, I wish I had another hour with you, but
I don't.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
And for listeners, I think you understand why I was
so impressed with Mark Gordon the first time I had
a chance to speak with him. Right so, just now,
he's talking about technical details of stable coins, of public
private partnerships, and education, of the mining and processing of
rare earth minerals, and of nuclear power. And that's just
(19:45):
all we had time for, but I'm sure he knows
an immense amount about so many other topics. Marcus is
very good to have you here. I know you're a
busy guy. Thank you so much for spending some time
with us. I'd love to have you back, and you know,
maybe if you come down in a few.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Months for the football game, I'll see you then that
would be great.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Ross thanks so much, and thanks for everybody on your
listener line too.
I had a chance a few weeks ago to attend
an event that was primarily about energy over at the
Common Sense Institute, where I am a proud fellow the
Mike a Loprino Free Enterprise fellow, and one of the
key speakers that evening was the Governor of Wyoming, Mark Gordon,
(00:20):
and I was just very impressed with the guy.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
He was on top of so many.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Details, technical details, energy related stuff, and I learned that
he has worked in the energy industry, but he also
has has worked at the Federal Reserve and other such things.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
And there are just so many things.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Going on in Wyoming that he talked about that I
thought were fascinating that could be great lessons for Colorado,
for the rest of the country, and also for me.
There's just such a massive contrast in the fact that
there's a state right above us that I know is
going to sound dumb, but it's even like the same
shape is Colorado.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
It's right next to us.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
The line dividing us is invisible, and yet on one
side of the line, which is to say, the side
of the line I live on, there is an ongoing, aggressive,
persistent erosion and attack on freedom and fiscal sanity, and
on the other side of the line, where Mark Gordon
(01:23):
is running the place, and where they've got smarter voters
who elect someone like Mark Gordon, it's going the other way.
A lot of good policy, no state income tax, energy development,
and on and on. So I asked the governor if
you would join us on the show, and he kindly
agreed to do so. Mark Gordon, Welcome to KOA. I
know we got wyoming listeners on KOWA. Thanks for being here.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Ross. It's wonderful to be here, and you're very kind.
Let me put it that way. We have a great state.
We're always happy when Colorado shows up on the weekends
to enjoy recreation here. But most importantly, we're a great
region and we have tremendous amounts of resources. We should
unleash them and we should help our economy grow.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Okay, so I'm going to warn you and me at
the same time. You and I are both nerds who
have the tendency to get deep into detail.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
But we only have about sixteen minutes. So let's.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Exactly so let's try to keep it kind of sort
of high level so we can get through some things,
and then when we need to get through more things.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
I'll have you.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Back, but let's start with what you were talking about
when you and I first met, which was energy, And
I would like to just start with what you guys
are doing with nuclear energy.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Sure, sure, well it was exciting. A couple of years ago,
we were approached to host a new type of technology,
the Nate Frame reactor, also known as terror Power. It
is jointly funded by Bill Gates and the Department of Energy.
(03:04):
It's a sodium cool passively shut down modular design. It's
not a small modular nuclear reactor. It's sort of a
medium about three hundred megawatts, and it is being built
right now in western Wyoming. It's got a new type
of fuel system that produces about seventy percent less waste.
(03:32):
It's a phenomenal thing and we're very excited about that.
But we've also looked at small modular nuclear reactors. We've
got two companies in Wyoming, Babcock and Wilcox, who is
now BWXT does all a lot of the reactors for
our nuclear fleet. They're looking at small reactors both of
(03:55):
the military application, but also if you're a remote village,
let's say somewhere in a Alaska or something. This can
power you. Otherwise you're dependent on you know, having to
have fuel transported to you. If you're a let's say
a data center, this can also power your data center
(04:16):
before the before the meter. So that's another application. And
then we've got really small micro reactors that have specific
applications elsewhere, and that's more of a movable kind of
very small reactor that can that can go you know,
on site a couple of places. They go to almost
(04:37):
any size.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
I mean, do you think that if nuclear power got
enough foothold in Wyoming that you could drive the cost
of electricity in Wyoming down so much that you could
attract energy intensive manufacturing businesses to Wyoming?
Speaker 2 (04:54):
And is that part of your goal?
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Yeah, that is part of the goal. The other is
that you know, this new combonatory being modular, it can
benefit from mass production so you know, like we do
with cars and other things, not everything is customized, which
will reduce the costs. And so we're really looking at
being able to drive energy intensive manufacturing, advanced manufacturing around us,
(05:22):
to be able to export this technology really across the
country for lots of different applications. It is interesting because
you hear, you know, broadly. Now about all these old
sort of mothball plants like three Mile Island being restarted,
that's really old technology. It's kind of great that they're
coming back online, but we're really looking at safer, smaller,
(05:48):
more economic types of technology that can be built going forward.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
One very important question before we do more on energy,
are you going to to Colorado on September twentieth when
the Cowboys are going to be playing the Buffaloes in Boulder.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
I always I always like to go cheer my Cowboys on.
You know, that's always fun. That's always fun.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
So this you play, it's the Rams.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Versus the Cowboys and our old rivalry. But you know,
it'd be it'd be good to see coach Prime.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
So I mentioned this morning that President Trump had an
announcement about a deal with China, and in that deal
he talked about China's going to resume deliveries of rare
earth materials and magnets. And what I said to my
audience is that's fine, but at this point, we have
major American and non American industries that are utterly dependent
(06:51):
on China, not just for the raw material but for
the processing as well. And I said, we've got the
stuff in the United States. We don't have the processing
right now, but these materials are available in the United States.
And I know you're thinking about rarest a lot in Wyoming.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
You've got We've got three major finds in Wyoming, and
really what's exciting, we're turning on a new type of
separation technology, so processing in opt in Wyoming. It's a
place called Rare Element Resources r e R, and it's
(07:31):
a phenomenal find up in the Bear Launch District. It's
kind of fun to hear Internationally. We just were on
a trade mission in Japan and Taiwan. Both of them
had already heard about rarest element resources, and what they
were excited about was that they see the advent of
(07:53):
US production of critical and rare minerals as a sort
of a lifeline for the choke hold that China has
put on all of those resources. So right here in Wyoming,
we're not only have those rare earths, but we're also
looking at the processes that can drive them better, more environmentally, sound,
(08:15):
more economically, in a more modern fashion than what we
traditionally do. Now it's very exciting and we're General Dynamics
has been partnering with a couple of these corporations. I
think we're looking at Chris Right, Secretary of Energy, coming
out to visit some of them, so we're right at
(08:35):
the beginning of that process.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
My fear with this stuff, although it seems like the
Trump administration is already aware of all this and already
trying to get ahead of it, is radical environmentalists abusing
NEPA and other such laws to try to stop any
kind of work like this. And I know there was
an executive order already to try to throttle that back
a little bit. But what are your thoughts, and I
(08:58):
think this would apply to nuclear as well to some degree.
What are your thoughts at how you get around these
these often well funded gad flies who try to stop everything.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
No, I think that's that's one of the big challenges.
I'm actually working on an editorial at this point to
talk about. You know, NEBRA was not a bad law
when it first came out, but it's been corrupted over
the years with all the court cases and everything else,
to where it's become as you say, this, this this
process by which you can stop anything for whatever reason.
(09:34):
It needs to get back to those really critical, most
important substantial issues defined, and I think we've had this
administration really anxious to do that. So Lee Zelden new
Secretary or administrator for the e PA, Secretary Burgham, actually
Secretary Bergham, and I've worked on this issue for a
(09:56):
number of years. It's really frustrating because what we've done
is we've hamstrong ourselves from being able to advance the
sorts of technologies that we've really been able to do
in this country, where we mind better, we do it
more environmentally sound, with better labor conditions. We do all
(10:19):
of this in America, and yet we stop ourselves constantly poor.
I made that joke the other day at the Institute
where I was saying, you know, we've got a developer
here in Wyoming that has been twelve years, twelve years
(10:40):
just getting the permits to be able to provide energy
to southern California. That's all the things that they would want.
He worked on it for twelve years to get that done.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Unbelievable. Well, I shouldn't say it's unbelievable. It's believable.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
It's terrible, but it's believable because it's been going on
for so long. We are talking with Governor Mark Gordon
of Wyoming. A bunch of listeners have noted, and I
want to verify if this is true, even though of
course everything in Wikipedia is by definition true just by
being there.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
But are you related by marriage to George Patten?
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Yeah? Yeah, I am.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
That was so.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
My great grandmother was the sister of George Patten's wife.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
So is there any part of you that, like, do
you like to walk around with ivory handled pistols and
emulate emulate George Patten?
Speaker 3 (11:42):
I like my guns, but I don't have ivory handled pistols.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
So that's that's a That's a fine answer for a
Wyoming governor.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
All right, let's just.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Because there's so many things to talk about.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Let's let's move away from energy for now.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
And you mentioned something when you were here at CSI
about the Wyoming Innovation Partnership, and I thought this was
just one of the most interesting things I've heard in
a long time related to education and new ways to
think about education. And I was telling one of your
(12:18):
folks who I was talking with today. You know, you
guys in conservative results oriented states tend to judge government
project based on the results in the ROI in places
like where I live now just to the south of you.
They tend to be judged just simply based on how
much money is being spent. The more money is being spent,
(12:39):
the better the project must be.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
I like your way. Better tell me about WIP.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Yeah, well, thank you for that. Wyoming has somewhat limited
resources for everything, and being a conservative, if you want
to make sure that the investment that you make pay back.
So we suggested a few years ago as part of
a total rebuild and why I was a little bit
different than Caldwell, a little bit different, a lot different
(13:06):
than Colorado. But we have one university and we have
few community colleges. We wanted to be able to make
sure that they were all aligned. That was sort of
the formation of the WHIP analysis. We started from the bottom.
We talked about what's relevant, what's important, what are the
emerging industries, how can we engage the private sector to
(13:28):
be partners in that effort? And then most importantly, and
I think what you're talking about. Okay, so we've made
these investments, how are they paying back? What are the
metrics that we're using are there? You know, are our
people getting jobs? Are they of value? Do people find
value in what we're accomplishing with that, so we've we've actually,
(13:50):
for the first time looked at what that cost is.
Of course, there's going to be people that say, well,
you didn't look at this, you didn't look at that,
but we've made it open source. So if you've got
better ideas on how we can measure this, we want
to hear about it, because it really is about how
we should be funding education going forward. Is it relevant,
(14:11):
is it valuable? Does it move us forward as opposed
to we've always done it before and we just need
to do more of it.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
All right, So give me just thirty seconds on this
next part because then I want to do one last
topic with you, and don't worry about the WIP metrics.
I was just saying, I'm glad you are measuring them,
but just quickly, what exactly does WIP do.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Well, what it did is that it stood up a
program which allows for the private sector to come in.
So one example of this is our tourism industry and
they are funding the culinary arts and all the hospitality
(14:57):
piece that goes with that. Then not only that, but
then they're tracking how those graduates are performing in the industries.
Because we love Wyoming. We also want to know if
they're staying here, so there's a piece of that, and
then we're also asking them to give back to So.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
It's to me, it sounds something like a very advanced
public private partnership of highly focused trade schools.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Or are having some part of an educational.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
System be something like trade schools, but the public private
partnership make sure that the things that are being taught
are the things that there's actual demand for in the
economy right now.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Is that close?
Speaker 3 (15:41):
That is absolutely it. And then the other piece of
it is that we've freed up the instructors so that
they don't have to meet some sort of matrix or rubric,
but they can actually teach what's valuable. And it's almost
an immediate feedback.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
A listener says, I'm supposed to say to you Powder River,
letter Buck, and he said, that's what you would say.
I have no idea what that means. All right, where
do you keep going? You can't tell me later? Okay,
you're one of your staffers just told me about this
this morning and I had missed it, and it's just fascinating.
(16:19):
And we only have three minutes right now, so we'll
have to have you or one of your people back.
But tell me about the Wyoming Stable Token.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
So the Wyoming Stable Token is the first connected to
a state government digital coin. It is fully backed, It's
going to be backed by US treasuries. It's completely in
the open and transparent. It has a two percent over
over it so that we can always meet the requirements.
(16:53):
You're going to be able to redeem it at one
hundred percent of what you paid into it. You can
look at what we've done to back back it over time.
And the reason we did it at the state is
because the federal government is muckying about with our financial
system in such a way that we felt it was
important that people could say, here's the asset, this is
(17:13):
what it's worth. Not only that, but we're bringing back
a lot of that foreign investment of our treasuries back
into the country. So it's making our country stronger, making
our system of finances much more transparent and clear, and
it kind of gets rid of all the mucking about
(17:34):
that our federal government does with federal funding.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yeah, again, this probably requires a lot more time or
bourbon or both, but I doubt But and again, just
dumb it down for me here governor.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
So, how does a stable coin that is backed with
US dollar, US federal government assets do anything to protect
anybody from risks to the US dollar or treasuries or anything.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Or is that not really the goal?
Speaker 4 (18:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (18:08):
No, No, I think the goal is to say we
have one hundred you know, if you're buying a US treasury,
it's redeemable at one hundred percent of what it is.
Right back, Yeah, to add par so, this is all
short term. We're not trying to invest, We're not trying
to make a bunch of money. We just want to
make sure that we have an item that can be
used for settlement, that is not volatile, that is absolutely
(18:32):
predictable and visible. And we know, and this has been
one of the big frustrations going back to Obama, we
know that digital assets are going to have a role
in our economy going forward. There is a piece of
it that is about speculation. We don't want the Wyoming
stable token to be anything about speculation. We want it
(18:56):
to be a predictable form of settlement, something that and
I'm make this very clear, something that are small community
banks can take advantage of and not be pushed out
of the market by our larger banks. We need all
the banks that we have, but we want to make
sure that this becomes a particularly valuable asset for small
community banks that are kind of shut out of some
(19:18):
of the stuff right now by all the federal regulation.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Well, I wish I had another hour with you, but
I don't.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
And for listeners, I think you understand why I was
so impressed with Mark Gordon the first time I had
a chance to speak with him. Right so, just now,
he's talking about technical details of stable coins, of public
private partnerships, and education, of the mining and processing of
rare earth minerals, and of nuclear power. And that's just
(19:45):
all we had time for, but I'm sure he knows
an immense amount about so many other topics. Marcus is
very good to have you here. I know you're a
busy guy. Thank you so much for spending some time
with us. I'd love to have you back, and you know,
maybe if you come down in a few.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Months for the football game, I'll see you then that
would be great.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Ross thanks so much, and thanks for everybody on your
listener line too.
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