June 17, 2025 • 19 mins
Abe Laydon is a current Douglas County Commissioner and in favor of home rule. Lora Thomas is a former Douglas County Commissioner and opposed to home rule.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
People have ballots already in Douglas County on the question
of home rule. Fox thirty one, our news partners at
KADIVR have an article Douglas County commissioners want to create
a home rule charter? What is it and why? Joining
us to help answer that question. One of those aforementioned
Douglas County commissioners Abe laid In, and Abe is a
(00:20):
strong supporter of home rule and a little bit later
this hour, we will have a guest on the show
who takes the other position on it, so you can
get both sides. Abe, it's good to talk to you
on the show for the first time. Welcome to Kaway.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah, good morning, Thank you so much for having me today.
It's an exciting day in Douglas County. Obviously, folks are
lining up in trying to get their ballots filled out
to turn in. But the overwhelming support for home rule
is getting louder and louder by the day. That issue
of local control just makes sense. And you know, our
citizens are incredibly smart. They're not being distracted by noise
(00:56):
and they're filling out their ballots. So I'm encouraging folks
that have the ballots sitting on their kitchen tables, fill
them out, get them in.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Okay, so we got five or six minutes. Let's go
through as much as we can here. What exactly are
the benefits that you perceive from being a home rule county.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Well, it's absolutely tremendous. So if you care about local
control on issues like public health, public safety, immigration, property taxes,
the question I often ask you know, I'm in my
seventh year as a commissioner, in my second term honor
to be chairman of our board, and I have lived
through the policies that have come down from the state
(01:36):
and have deeply impacted the citizens that I have been
called to represent. I mean, specifically during COVID being just
shut down businesses, closing down kids in maths. Immigration, the state,
you know, going into one point three billion dollars in
debt to address the legal immigration while cutting funding the
taxpayers issues like public safety. I mean, the state is
(01:58):
now the most dangerous state in the country forty seventh
on crime. Home rule would allow us to codify so
many specific issues related to public safety, specifically like our
heart team. So we have ended homelessness in Douglass County.
And that's not hyperbole. That's based on the HUD statistics.
We have zero can handling, zero encampments, virtually no unsheltered
(02:21):
homeless in a county of four hundred thousand. And the
way we did that is through our HEART Team. It's
our Homeless Engagement Assistance Resource Team. It's a coresponder team
basically of a clinician paired with public safety and it works.
So we could actually codify HEART into our charter and
make sure that continues forward.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Okay, So I mean, all right, let's just take that
as an example, but keep moving quickly with me here
if you would. So that's something you were able to
do already. So since you were able to do it already,
why is that an argument for.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Home role Because you can codify the HEART Team as
part of the Sheriff's office. There's no state law and
that is so we could create a county ordinance associated
with that that would literally ensure that that is included
in the charter. And if we have a different set
of commissioners in the future, that would not change from
the Home World charter.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Okay, there have been a couple of folks, and I'm
not pointing a finger at you here, who I think
have been somewhat over selling some of the benefits. And
by the way, I love local control and conceptually, to me,
anything that gives a county a little more leeway from
the state is at least worth considering and potentially worth
voting for.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
But I've heard a.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Couple of people say, well, then Doug co people wouldn't
have to abide by state gun laws, and that's not true.
And also I've heard people say that then with home rule,
then Sheriff Weekly could more or less do anything he
wants to coordinate with ICE, and that's also not true.
Do you worry about some people being, you know, thinking
(03:52):
that you're going to get bigger benefits or different benefits
than you actually would get.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
You know, that's a great question, and we want to
be very clean, clear, open, transparent. I'm an attorney by trade,
and being very honest about the exact statutes. I mean,
with taxation, we have had to sue the state over
property tax. I remember we returned thirty thirty eight million
dollars back to citizens because we don't need more of
their money. This is hard working taxpayers that are being
(04:19):
taxed enough already. But Colorado revised statutes thirty thirty five
to two toh one permits home rule counties the authority
to create local tax limits, so issues around spending and growth,
we can actually address those as a county and integrate
that into our charter. I want to be clear, it
doesn't mean that the power of Douglass County would be absolute,
(04:40):
but for our citizens, I mean, we're the only county
in the state that saw net migration into our county.
More people want to move here because it's healthy, wealthy,
and why it's healthiest county in the state, most prosperous
in the state for capita number one school district. People
want to be here, businesses want to be here. But
you get folks from Seattle, San Francisco, Portland that they
want to move here for the same reasons. But turn
(05:02):
it a totally different direction and start using taxpayer dollars
to fund immigration and issues that illegal immigration and issues
that certainly don't reflect the will of our people.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
I'm not entirely surprised that former Republican now Democrats State Rep.
Bob Marshall is not with you on this, and I'm
not normally with Bob Marshall, and I'm not saying I
am here either. But I want to just run this
question by you because he and some others are wondering
whether this is a form of a power grab by
the county commissioners, and Marshall is kind of accusing you
(05:34):
guys have wanted to do stuff for special interests like RWR.
I'm not sure if that's still a real issue, and
developers and so on.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
So what do you say this whole power grab comment?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Well, let's be clear, hard left liberals need to create
a boogeyman in order to defeat local Douglas County citizens.
Let me be very very clear, this is a power
grab for the citizens of Douglas County. I have thought
very hard for seven years to keep this the greatest
county in the state, and our citizens expect to be
(06:06):
able to continue to do this. But the overreach from
the state on everything from public health, immigration, property taxes,
and homelessness has been egregious and our citizens have had enough.
Interesting that Bob Marshall is also running for the Home
Rule commission, so again considered a source.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Right.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
We're talking with Abe Laden, current Douglas County Commissioner and
strong supporter of home rule. It's a two vote process.
The first vote. The election day is a week from today.
Last question for you, Abe, and one of the things
I've been wondering about as I think about this is
if home rule were such a good idea, why have
(06:47):
only two counties done it, not counting Denner.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
And I'll tell you the specific answer to that. So
we have studied home rule every year of my seven years.
We've had a presentation from our county attorney, and the
challenges are significant and they're twofold. One is it's incredibly complex,
and we have a great county attorney now that is
not deterred by complexity. The second issue is the membership
(07:12):
the composition of that Charter commission. It's twenty one members.
If the composition isn't great, and it's a bunch of
folks from Seattle that want to make Douglas's County like Seattle,
probably pretty complicated and not great for our citizens. So
those two issues have been a big deterrent. But there
is an amazing slate of twenty one conservative individuals that
(07:33):
are anti tax, pro public safety that I've encouraged citizens
to vote for, and we have an attorney that can
handle this very complicated process. So all citizens need to
do is turn in their ballot.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
What's going to happen. Just give me this answer quickly.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
What's your reaction going to be if you get the
vote passed that says all right, we can continue on
this path towards home rule and then a bunch of
liberals get elected to the board.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
It's a great process because it doesn't just stop there. Again,
that charter commission would continue forward, present that charter to
the Border County Commissioners, who would then certify that to
the ballot, and then all citizens in the county would
vote on that charter. So there's still several opportunities for
citizens to engage. We are committed to a clear, clean,
transparent process. We've had north of thirty two meetings public
(08:26):
meetings all over the county to try to address these issues.
My commissioner colleague George Peel, has been everywhere working his
rear at night and during the day, just trying to
get out and get the word out and explain what
this is about.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Abe Laden is in his seventh year as Douglas County Commissioner.
A strong yes vote on home rule. Thanks for joining
us on the show. Abe, it's good to talk to you.
For the first time. I appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
You too.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
You take care all right?
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Okay, very interesting, and we're working on lining up our
other guests.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Here.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Looks like a rod is talking to somebody, I hope.
So again, I have not.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Taken a public position, and I probably won't take one.
But if I had to bet, I would I would.
I would bet, but I wouldn't bet a lot that
it won't pass, primarily because it's complicated, not necessarily because
it's a bad idea. Again, I don't have a strong opinion,
but it's I mean, Abe Layden just said, this is complicated.
(09:29):
Coloraddens tend to vote no on ballot measures when they
feel like they don't really understand it. That's going to
be the heavy lift for the yes people. Now, I'm
very pleased to welcome back to the show Laura Thomas,
who was until recently a Douglas County commissioner, and Laura's
got a different perspective on home rule. Laura, welcome back.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
To the show.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Ros.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
Thank you so much for having me on so I
can share the truth with your listeners about what home
will allows and does not allow.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Okay, So I don't I know if you happen to
hear any of the conversation with my previous guest, But
I asked him that question, what does home rule allow
or what benefits do you perceive you will get from
home rule? And he said some things. You have been
skeptical of some of those claims. So what do you
want my listeners to know?
Speaker 4 (10:16):
What your listeners need to know is as when I
was on your show earlier, you had an eat the
Attorney General's Office who made it clear that home rule
counties can change the structure of their county meeting. They
can increase terms for their elected officials or increase their salaries,
but home rule counties must follow state law. And I
(10:40):
thought you had an excellent point when the previous commissioner
was telling you about all the great things that Douglas
County has done. We've already done that without home rule,
and Douglas County can continue to do great things without
home rule as long as the commissioners tighten their belt
and quit wasting tax dollars. I heard your previous speaker
(11:01):
say that thirty thirty five two oh one allows the
county to lower taxes. Us the county can already lower
taxes as a county commissioner, I lower taxes seven times.
So your previous speaker said that last year the commissioners
reduced the tax revenue the tax burden by thirty eight million,
(11:21):
that's correct. This year they only reduced it by eleven
million with the same revenue stream because they spent seventeen
million of those dollars.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Well, what does that have to do with home rule?
What does that?
Speaker 1 (11:35):
I understand the criticism you're making, but why does that
relate to home rule?
Speaker 4 (11:40):
So what I'm saying is they commissioners can already lower
property taxes without home rule, So saying we need home
rule to lower property taxes is not true.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Okay, but what about the thing that he mentioned that
we did cover on the show at the time, and
I think you were still on the county commission at
the time, where property valuations went up a lot, so
property tax property assessments went up a lot, so property
taxes were going up a lot, and the commission wanted
to lower the mill levey, if I remember correctly, to
(12:14):
give a break and this tool.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
State Senator Chris Hansen.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Who wasn't the state Senate anymore, basically blocked it.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Jared Polos was actually on your side, but.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
The government blocked it, and then you guys did whatever
you did. So it's it seemed I mean, that seems
like the kind of thing that should be easier with
home rule, But maybe I'm wrong.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
No, that's so. What we were trying to do is
lower the values across the board by four percent, okay,
And so that would have reduced property taxes maybe by
one hundred dollars per person. And when we sued the state,
the state said you did not, we don't have standing,
And the county is making the case that if we're
home rule, perhaps we would have standing to sue the state.
(13:00):
This is a once in a lifetime event, according to
our assessor, when property values go up fifty percent in
one year.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Okay, so let me let me rephrase the question.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Then I realize you've got some claims that you think
that a lot of what their claiming the benefits are
are overstated or not true, and then that might be right.
But let me put this to you a different way.
What's the downside of being a home rule county. I mean,
my instinct is, especially if we live in a state
where leftists are in control, I would think that anything
(13:34):
that gives a county even a modicum of independence, especially
since our next governor is likely to be worse. In
my I'm guessing that Michael Bennett will be our next governor,
and that he will be quite a bit worse than
Jared Poulis. Even if that's hard to imagine, wouldn't some
flexibility from the state be a welcome thing?
Speaker 4 (13:53):
So Russ, the only flexibility is in the structure of
our government, and so we could get rid of term
limits for the elected officials. True that charter, Abe laden
is term limited. That they could put in the charter
that elected officials get three terms or more, and so
next year Abe could run for election again. And I
think that there are personal benefits that are being pushed
(14:15):
here while saying look over here, we can get rid
of all these state laws we don't like. When that
is not true. Abe was right, This is complicated. We
need more than two months to let the voters know
what is going on and to write the charter, because
I think there's monkey business going on here.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Ross.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
So I realized that you know your your relationship with
the other county commissioner has been pretty fraud and I
haven't paid all that much attention because I don't live
in Douglas County and and all that kind of stuff
annoys me. But it seems to have gotten rather personal,
and I'm wondering if if I'm wondering, First of all,
(14:56):
I'm wondering if George or Abe in particular or have
made any noises that would make you think one of
their goals is to extend their own terms. And you know,
if not, the I mean, why should we think that's
a serious thing to worry about.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
Because changing the structure of the government is the only
thing that home rule allows a home rule county to do.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
There are other.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Things, though, that the Home Row Statute does give commissioners
more power in the world of water. They can buy
water rights outside of Douglas County, they can export water
outside of Douglas County. There's a lot of things in
thirty thirty five two oh one that are more power
for the commissioners that have not been talked about, and
(15:46):
those should be real concerns for the voters and the
citizens of Douglas County.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
I'm reading from an official document from the state government
of Colorado that says the charter adopted by the county
may under home rule may include regulation of administer treateive
powers such as finances and property, debts and expenses, and
the powers and duties of officials, including elections, terms of office,
and compensation, public works and services. I'm skipping ahead a
(16:11):
little bit building codes and zoning and.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Some other things.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
So it and ordinances to create and enforce local laws.
So it sounds like home rule could affect a little
more than what you're saying it would have than just
the structure of government and term limits.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
So when we talk about codifying law, county commissioners can
already pass ordinances. If the county is looking at creating
a whole new code of criminal activity like a municipal
government has, that means the county is going to have
to create a whole court system. And I can't even
(16:52):
imagine how much all that is going to cost. And
why would we do that when we already have a
brand new judicial district with a district that is tough
on crime.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Well, and I actually don't think home rule counties have
that power that you just described. I think only home
rule municipalities do. I don't think the county could do that.
I could be wrong, but in my reading that's one
of the things home rule cities can do, but not
home rule counties. But I don't think I've gotten a
convincing answer really from either of you or the previous guest,
(17:23):
because I don't know that he's convinced me that the
upside is significant, and I don't know that you've convinced
me that there's any real downside.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
Well, then why are we even having this discussion with
spending five hundred thousand dollars for a special election that
think cramp down the throats of the voters without any
previous information about home role being discussed before it was
put on the palot.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Yeah, I do think that that ties in in a
way to the comment.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
I made.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
At the end just after my conversation with the last guest,
which is at Colorado voters tend to vote no on
things they don't understand. And since this was brought out
pretty quickly and without a heck of a lot of
public discussion, I know that's been one of the things
that has upset you most is how little public discussion
there's been. Colorado's tend to vote know if they don't
(18:18):
understand something. That's why my guess would be that it
doesn't pass. But I'm not that close to Doug Cole politics.
I'll give you the last twenty three seconds.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
So, Ross, this is not good for Douglas County citizens.
It's not good for the voters here. There's no reason
for Douglas County to do home rule. And so I
am urging everybody to vote no on home rule in
Douglas County and get your ballot in by Tuesday, June
twenty fourth.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Folks, if you live in Douglas County, there's a lot
of stuff out there you can read about the pros
and cons and different people's opinions and such on this.
I encourage you to do your homework. It is an
important question for the county. I've tried to bring you
both sides today. I hope you found that useful. Laura Thomas,
former Douglas County Commissioner.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Thanks for your time today.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Ross.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
All right, I will note without using a name, that
a friend of mine who is in politics in Douglas
County says that Laura is wrong. Again, there are a
lot of opinions on this thing, and I'm not going
to express one because I don't know enough. Frankly, I
just don't know enough. Maybe I will get another guest
(19:27):
on the show. I'll tell you what I know where
I can go for another guest who is in.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Favor of home rule.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
If you know somebody who you think would be a good, credible,
well spoken guest against home Rule and who lives in
Douglas County, then please have that person email me at
Ross at iHeartMedia dot com, Ross at iHeartMedia dot com.
And maybe I will try to do one more of these,
because I think it's a very important and interesting issue.
People have ballots already in Douglas County on the question
of home rule. Fox thirty one, our news partners at
KADIVR have an article Douglas County commissioners want to create
a home rule charter? What is it and why? Joining
us to help answer that question. One of those aforementioned
Douglas County commissioners Abe laid In, and Abe is a
(00:20):
strong supporter of home rule and a little bit later
this hour, we will have a guest on the show
who takes the other position on it, so you can
get both sides. Abe, it's good to talk to you
on the show for the first time. Welcome to Kaway.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah, good morning, Thank you so much for having me today.
It's an exciting day in Douglas County. Obviously, folks are
lining up in trying to get their ballots filled out
to turn in. But the overwhelming support for home rule
is getting louder and louder by the day. That issue
of local control just makes sense. And you know, our
citizens are incredibly smart. They're not being distracted by noise
(00:56):
and they're filling out their ballots. So I'm encouraging folks
that have the ballots sitting on their kitchen tables, fill
them out, get them in.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Okay, so we got five or six minutes. Let's go
through as much as we can here. What exactly are
the benefits that you perceive from being a home rule county.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Well, it's absolutely tremendous. So if you care about local
control on issues like public health, public safety, immigration, property taxes,
the question I often ask you know, I'm in my
seventh year as a commissioner, in my second term honor
to be chairman of our board, and I have lived
through the policies that have come down from the state
(01:36):
and have deeply impacted the citizens that I have been
called to represent. I mean, specifically during COVID being just
shut down businesses, closing down kids in maths. Immigration, the state,
you know, going into one point three billion dollars in
debt to address the legal immigration while cutting funding the
taxpayers issues like public safety. I mean, the state is
(01:58):
now the most dangerous state in the country forty seventh
on crime. Home rule would allow us to codify so
many specific issues related to public safety, specifically like our
heart team. So we have ended homelessness in Douglass County.
And that's not hyperbole. That's based on the HUD statistics.
We have zero can handling, zero encampments, virtually no unsheltered
(02:21):
homeless in a county of four hundred thousand. And the
way we did that is through our HEART Team. It's
our Homeless Engagement Assistance Resource Team. It's a coresponder team
basically of a clinician paired with public safety and it works.
So we could actually codify HEART into our charter and
make sure that continues forward.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Okay, So I mean, all right, let's just take that
as an example, but keep moving quickly with me here
if you would. So that's something you were able to
do already. So since you were able to do it already,
why is that an argument for.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Home role Because you can codify the HEART Team as
part of the Sheriff's office. There's no state law and
that is so we could create a county ordinance associated
with that that would literally ensure that that is included
in the charter. And if we have a different set
of commissioners in the future, that would not change from
the Home World charter.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Okay, there have been a couple of folks, and I'm
not pointing a finger at you here, who I think
have been somewhat over selling some of the benefits. And
by the way, I love local control and conceptually, to me,
anything that gives a county a little more leeway from
the state is at least worth considering and potentially worth
voting for.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
But I've heard a.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Couple of people say, well, then Doug co people wouldn't
have to abide by state gun laws, and that's not true.
And also I've heard people say that then with home rule,
then Sheriff Weekly could more or less do anything he
wants to coordinate with ICE, and that's also not true.
Do you worry about some people being, you know, thinking
(03:52):
that you're going to get bigger benefits or different benefits
than you actually would get.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
You know, that's a great question, and we want to
be very clean, clear, open, transparent. I'm an attorney by trade,
and being very honest about the exact statutes. I mean,
with taxation, we have had to sue the state over
property tax. I remember we returned thirty thirty eight million
dollars back to citizens because we don't need more of
their money. This is hard working taxpayers that are being
(04:19):
taxed enough already. But Colorado revised statutes thirty thirty five
to two toh one permits home rule counties the authority
to create local tax limits, so issues around spending and growth,
we can actually address those as a county and integrate
that into our charter. I want to be clear, it
doesn't mean that the power of Douglass County would be absolute,
(04:40):
but for our citizens, I mean, we're the only county
in the state that saw net migration into our county.
More people want to move here because it's healthy, wealthy,
and why it's healthiest county in the state, most prosperous
in the state for capita number one school district. People
want to be here, businesses want to be here. But
you get folks from Seattle, San Francisco, Portland that they
want to move here for the same reasons. But turn
(05:02):
it a totally different direction and start using taxpayer dollars
to fund immigration and issues that illegal immigration and issues
that certainly don't reflect the will of our people.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
I'm not entirely surprised that former Republican now Democrats State Rep.
Bob Marshall is not with you on this, and I'm
not normally with Bob Marshall, and I'm not saying I
am here either. But I want to just run this
question by you because he and some others are wondering
whether this is a form of a power grab by
the county commissioners, and Marshall is kind of accusing you
(05:34):
guys have wanted to do stuff for special interests like RWR.
I'm not sure if that's still a real issue, and
developers and so on.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
So what do you say this whole power grab comment?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Well, let's be clear, hard left liberals need to create
a boogeyman in order to defeat local Douglas County citizens.
Let me be very very clear, this is a power
grab for the citizens of Douglas County. I have thought
very hard for seven years to keep this the greatest
county in the state, and our citizens expect to be
(06:06):
able to continue to do this. But the overreach from
the state on everything from public health, immigration, property taxes,
and homelessness has been egregious and our citizens have had enough.
Interesting that Bob Marshall is also running for the Home
Rule commission, so again considered a source.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Right.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
We're talking with Abe Laden, current Douglas County Commissioner and
strong supporter of home rule. It's a two vote process.
The first vote. The election day is a week from today.
Last question for you, Abe, and one of the things
I've been wondering about as I think about this is
if home rule were such a good idea, why have
(06:47):
only two counties done it, not counting Denner.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
And I'll tell you the specific answer to that. So
we have studied home rule every year of my seven years.
We've had a presentation from our county attorney, and the
challenges are significant and they're twofold. One is it's incredibly complex,
and we have a great county attorney now that is
not deterred by complexity. The second issue is the membership
(07:12):
the composition of that Charter commission. It's twenty one members.
If the composition isn't great, and it's a bunch of
folks from Seattle that want to make Douglas's County like Seattle,
probably pretty complicated and not great for our citizens. So
those two issues have been a big deterrent. But there
is an amazing slate of twenty one conservative individuals that
(07:33):
are anti tax, pro public safety that I've encouraged citizens
to vote for, and we have an attorney that can
handle this very complicated process. So all citizens need to
do is turn in their ballot.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
What's going to happen. Just give me this answer quickly.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
What's your reaction going to be if you get the
vote passed that says all right, we can continue on
this path towards home rule and then a bunch of
liberals get elected to the board.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
It's a great process because it doesn't just stop there. Again,
that charter commission would continue forward, present that charter to
the Border County Commissioners, who would then certify that to
the ballot, and then all citizens in the county would
vote on that charter. So there's still several opportunities for
citizens to engage. We are committed to a clear, clean,
transparent process. We've had north of thirty two meetings public
(08:26):
meetings all over the county to try to address these issues.
My commissioner colleague George Peel, has been everywhere working his
rear at night and during the day, just trying to
get out and get the word out and explain what
this is about.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Abe Laden is in his seventh year as Douglas County Commissioner.
A strong yes vote on home rule. Thanks for joining
us on the show. Abe, it's good to talk to you.
For the first time. I appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
You too.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
You take care all right?
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Okay, very interesting, and we're working on lining up our
other guests.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Here.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Looks like a rod is talking to somebody, I hope.
So again, I have not.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Taken a public position, and I probably won't take one.
But if I had to bet, I would I would.
I would bet, but I wouldn't bet a lot that
it won't pass, primarily because it's complicated, not necessarily because
it's a bad idea. Again, I don't have a strong opinion,
but it's I mean, Abe Layden just said, this is complicated.
(09:29):
Coloraddens tend to vote no on ballot measures when they
feel like they don't really understand it. That's going to
be the heavy lift for the yes people. Now, I'm
very pleased to welcome back to the show Laura Thomas,
who was until recently a Douglas County commissioner, and Laura's
got a different perspective on home rule. Laura, welcome back.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
To the show.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Ros.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
Thank you so much for having me on so I
can share the truth with your listeners about what home
will allows and does not allow.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Okay, So I don't I know if you happen to
hear any of the conversation with my previous guest, But
I asked him that question, what does home rule allow
or what benefits do you perceive you will get from
home rule? And he said some things. You have been
skeptical of some of those claims. So what do you
want my listeners to know?
Speaker 4 (10:16):
What your listeners need to know is as when I
was on your show earlier, you had an eat the
Attorney General's Office who made it clear that home rule
counties can change the structure of their county meeting. They
can increase terms for their elected officials or increase their salaries,
but home rule counties must follow state law. And I
(10:40):
thought you had an excellent point when the previous commissioner
was telling you about all the great things that Douglas
County has done. We've already done that without home rule,
and Douglas County can continue to do great things without
home rule as long as the commissioners tighten their belt
and quit wasting tax dollars. I heard your previous speaker
(11:01):
say that thirty thirty five two oh one allows the
county to lower taxes. Us the county can already lower
taxes as a county commissioner, I lower taxes seven times.
So your previous speaker said that last year the commissioners
reduced the tax revenue the tax burden by thirty eight million,
(11:21):
that's correct. This year they only reduced it by eleven
million with the same revenue stream because they spent seventeen
million of those dollars.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Well, what does that have to do with home rule?
What does that?
Speaker 1 (11:35):
I understand the criticism you're making, but why does that
relate to home rule?
Speaker 4 (11:40):
So what I'm saying is they commissioners can already lower
property taxes without home rule, So saying we need home
rule to lower property taxes is not true.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Okay, but what about the thing that he mentioned that
we did cover on the show at the time, and
I think you were still on the county commission at
the time, where property valuations went up a lot, so
property tax property assessments went up a lot, so property
taxes were going up a lot, and the commission wanted
to lower the mill levey, if I remember correctly, to
(12:14):
give a break and this tool.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
State Senator Chris Hansen.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Who wasn't the state Senate anymore, basically blocked it.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Jared Polos was actually on your side, but.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
The government blocked it, and then you guys did whatever
you did. So it's it seemed I mean, that seems
like the kind of thing that should be easier with
home rule, But maybe I'm wrong.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
No, that's so. What we were trying to do is
lower the values across the board by four percent, okay,
And so that would have reduced property taxes maybe by
one hundred dollars per person. And when we sued the state,
the state said you did not, we don't have standing,
And the county is making the case that if we're
home rule, perhaps we would have standing to sue the state.
(13:00):
This is a once in a lifetime event, according to
our assessor, when property values go up fifty percent in
one year.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Okay, so let me let me rephrase the question.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Then I realize you've got some claims that you think
that a lot of what their claiming the benefits are
are overstated or not true, and then that might be right.
But let me put this to you a different way.
What's the downside of being a home rule county. I mean,
my instinct is, especially if we live in a state
where leftists are in control, I would think that anything
(13:34):
that gives a county even a modicum of independence, especially
since our next governor is likely to be worse. In
my I'm guessing that Michael Bennett will be our next governor,
and that he will be quite a bit worse than
Jared Poulis. Even if that's hard to imagine, wouldn't some
flexibility from the state be a welcome thing?
Speaker 4 (13:53):
So Russ, the only flexibility is in the structure of
our government, and so we could get rid of term
limits for the elected officials. True that charter, Abe laden
is term limited. That they could put in the charter
that elected officials get three terms or more, and so
next year Abe could run for election again. And I
think that there are personal benefits that are being pushed
(14:15):
here while saying look over here, we can get rid
of all these state laws we don't like. When that
is not true. Abe was right, This is complicated. We
need more than two months to let the voters know
what is going on and to write the charter, because
I think there's monkey business going on here.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Ross.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
So I realized that you know your your relationship with
the other county commissioner has been pretty fraud and I
haven't paid all that much attention because I don't live
in Douglas County and and all that kind of stuff
annoys me. But it seems to have gotten rather personal,
and I'm wondering if if I'm wondering, First of all,
(14:56):
I'm wondering if George or Abe in particular or have
made any noises that would make you think one of
their goals is to extend their own terms. And you know,
if not, the I mean, why should we think that's
a serious thing to worry about.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
Because changing the structure of the government is the only
thing that home rule allows a home rule county to do.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
There are other.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Things, though, that the Home Row Statute does give commissioners
more power in the world of water. They can buy
water rights outside of Douglas County, they can export water
outside of Douglas County. There's a lot of things in
thirty thirty five two oh one that are more power
for the commissioners that have not been talked about, and
(15:46):
those should be real concerns for the voters and the
citizens of Douglas County.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
I'm reading from an official document from the state government
of Colorado that says the charter adopted by the county
may under home rule may include regulation of administer treateive
powers such as finances and property, debts and expenses, and
the powers and duties of officials, including elections, terms of office,
and compensation, public works and services. I'm skipping ahead a
(16:11):
little bit building codes and zoning and.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Some other things.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
So it and ordinances to create and enforce local laws.
So it sounds like home rule could affect a little
more than what you're saying it would have than just
the structure of government and term limits.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
So when we talk about codifying law, county commissioners can
already pass ordinances. If the county is looking at creating
a whole new code of criminal activity like a municipal
government has, that means the county is going to have
to create a whole court system. And I can't even
(16:52):
imagine how much all that is going to cost. And
why would we do that when we already have a
brand new judicial district with a district that is tough
on crime.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Well, and I actually don't think home rule counties have
that power that you just described. I think only home
rule municipalities do. I don't think the county could do that.
I could be wrong, but in my reading that's one
of the things home rule cities can do, but not
home rule counties. But I don't think I've gotten a
convincing answer really from either of you or the previous guest,
(17:23):
because I don't know that he's convinced me that the
upside is significant, and I don't know that you've convinced
me that there's any real downside.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
Well, then why are we even having this discussion with
spending five hundred thousand dollars for a special election that
think cramp down the throats of the voters without any
previous information about home role being discussed before it was
put on the palot.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Yeah, I do think that that ties in in a
way to the comment.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
I made.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
At the end just after my conversation with the last guest,
which is at Colorado voters tend to vote no on
things they don't understand. And since this was brought out
pretty quickly and without a heck of a lot of
public discussion, I know that's been one of the things
that has upset you most is how little public discussion
there's been. Colorado's tend to vote know if they don't
(18:18):
understand something. That's why my guess would be that it
doesn't pass. But I'm not that close to Doug Cole politics.
I'll give you the last twenty three seconds.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
So, Ross, this is not good for Douglas County citizens.
It's not good for the voters here. There's no reason
for Douglas County to do home rule. And so I
am urging everybody to vote no on home rule in
Douglas County and get your ballot in by Tuesday, June
twenty fourth.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Folks, if you live in Douglas County, there's a lot
of stuff out there you can read about the pros
and cons and different people's opinions and such on this.
I encourage you to do your homework. It is an
important question for the county. I've tried to bring you
both sides today. I hope you found that useful. Laura Thomas,
former Douglas County Commissioner.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Thanks for your time today.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Ross.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
All right, I will note without using a name, that
a friend of mine who is in politics in Douglas
County says that Laura is wrong. Again, there are a
lot of opinions on this thing, and I'm not going
to express one because I don't know enough. Frankly, I
just don't know enough. Maybe I will get another guest
(19:27):
on the show. I'll tell you what I know where
I can go for another guest who is in.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Favor of home rule.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
If you know somebody who you think would be a good, credible,
well spoken guest against home Rule and who lives in
Douglas County, then please have that person email me at
Ross at iHeartMedia dot com, Ross at iHeartMedia dot com.
And maybe I will try to do one more of these,
because I think it's a very important and interesting issue.
The Ross Kaminsky Show News
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