Steve Moore is one of the nation's most influential economists and he joins me to discuss the proposed Senate amendments to the "One Big Beautiful Bill". While they're not all great, they're mostly very strong and might even be enough to get me to vote for the bill if I were in Congress.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I am so happy to welcome back to the show
the chief economist of The Ross Kominski Show. His name
is Steve Moore. He is the founder of the Club
for Growth, which is when we first met. He is
co founder of the Committee to Unleashed Prosperity, which is
one of his current projects. He's been at Heritage, he's
been at CATO, and he's an all around good guy.
(00:21):
Oh and he's also an occasional economic advisor to President Trump. Hi, Steve, Hei,
it's good to be with you.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Thanks for having me. It's been a long time.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Yeah, it's been way it's been way too long. I
saw your I get your daily emails from the Committee
to Unleashed Prosperity, and I love those daily emails and
I should probably have you on Moros.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Well, know that your listeners to sign up and just
go to Unleash Prosperity dot com. And it is absolutely free.
So thanks for saying that. We have a good time
putting it together, and it's just a free little update
on what's going on with the economy and finances and politics.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Unleash Prosperity prosperity dot com. So folks, you should definitely
to go there and sign up. It's a great short
daily email that distills sometimes complex economic policy and data
into plain English that anybody can understand. And it's really good.
(01:15):
All right. So, Steve, before we get to the Senate
version of the big beautiful bill, let me just tell
you what I've said about a little bit on the radio,
and I want to know what you've said about the
House version. But what I've said is there's a lot
of good stuff in it. But for me, the increase
in the salt deduction, the note, the unlimited it and
(01:35):
we'll talk. I put that word in there for a
reason when we get to the Senate thing. But the
no tax on tips, the unlimited, no tax on overtime,
no tax on social security, and not enough cuts in
spending had me saying that, you know, in my ideal world,
if I were not motivated as a member of Congress
by having to please leadership or something like that, i'd
vote against it. So before we get to the Senate updates,
(01:58):
which I mostly like, what's your take on the House version?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
So listen, I would give the House bill about a B.
By the way, it has to pass. It's a it's
a it's a must pass bill, because if we don't
pass this bill, then we're looking at a fourtrillion dollar
tax increase on Jennifer. So it will pass. They are
going to pass this tax bill. Shame on every Democrat
in the House who voted against that bill. I don't
(02:27):
understand the logic of that, because the middle class would
get crushed by the tax burden that would be imposed
if we allowed this to expire. Now are the things
I don't like about the House bill? Yes, but I
was certainly voted for it, notwithstanding you make some very
good points. Does it cut spending it up? No? But
I want to remind people there are there. This is
(02:50):
the first of potentially three reconciliation bills. So what I'm
thinking is that instead of one beautiful bill, we may
have two or three beautiful bills. Get the tax cut now,
because it has to get done, and then let's take
a real chainsaw to some of these programs that are God,
there's five hundred billion dollars of erroneous payments by these
(03:12):
programs every year, five hundred billion dollars, So we can
easily cut more. And to your point, you know this
from reading the hotline. If you look at the ten
year baseline for what Congress is expected to spend, you know,
through the year two thousand and thirty seven or two
and thirty six, it's something like eighty five trillion, and
under the Republican budget it's eighty three point five trillion. Yeah,
(03:37):
that's not a lot of savings over ten years.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
I'm sure you remember. I'm sure you remember and probably
knew personally. An interesting I will say journalists named Robert
or Bob Novak. You must have known him.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
I knew about very well.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
And Bob used to say that God put Republicans on
Earth to cut taxes, and if they don't do that,
they have no other purpose.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
That was him.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
I was there when he said it.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
That's awesome. Okay, So my new version of that is
God put Republicans on Earth cut spending, right, right, I mean,
are you kind of there with me?
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Well? I do think, you know, we first of all,
we have got to growth the economy, and you do
that by you know, these tax cuts. And I think
it's you know, I'm just looking at the tax portion
of the bill right now. I think that's good. I
think it's sensible for the economy, sensible for families and businesses. Now,
do I think we should dramatically cut spending? Of course.
I mean, you know, I'm out of my whole life
to that. For forty years, I've been in Washington trying
(04:41):
to get that done. Yesh, does this bill deliver on that?
Not so much. He has some minor cuts, but even
things like work requirements for Medicaid and food stams, which
are no brainers. I mean, seventy five percent of Americans
agree that if you're going to get you know, free
food from the government and free healthcare, you should at
least have to be working or if looking for job,
if that is, if you're able boy, either if you're
(05:02):
in the hospital or you're in a wheelchair or mental
deficiency that you can't work. Of course, but you know,
there's millions of people on Medicaid that could be and
should be working, and they're just getting the free help share.
So we're saying, well, you got to work to get it,
and then we have to do something about the fact
that the federal government is reimbursing states and you know,
California gets ninety cents for every dollar they spend on Medicaid,
(05:26):
so they're actually balancing their budget by putting more and
more people on Medicaid. It's a scam. So we've got
to do something about that as well.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Okay, so all right, let's keep going. I keep not
getting to the Senate amendment, but we will. But I
want to stick with the thing you just said about
that scam, and I want to also tie into it
the salt deduction. To me, the salt there are many
galling things in the tax code, and there are probably
a million galling things in the tax code that I
(05:53):
don't know about that we're snuck in there for special interest,
so I'd never even learned about it. But the salt
deduction is just a way for upper middle class and
upper class people who live in high tax states to
force the rest of us to subsidize their state tax bill.
And the proper salt deduction amount is zero. I can't
(06:15):
imagine you would disagree with me on that. So let's
do you agree with me on that?
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Of course? Yeah, yet rid of that. I mean, I
was the one you know when we wrote is you know,
Larry Cutnoh, I wrote sort of the first version of
the Trump tax bill back in early twenty sixteen with Trump,
and you know, I always tell you that should be
in a Sithonian because we just sit on a legal path,
is that it should have the fifteen percent range, or
do this and that, and a lot of what we
put on that notepad ended up into law. And one
(06:41):
of the things I always insisted on when we do
this bill is we should get rid of the state
and local tax deduction because I mean, you summarize it
very well, it just allows very wealthy people in New
York and New Jersey and California to export their tax
to people living in lower tax states. That doesn't mean
it's not good economics. You never want to subsidize states
for raising their taxes, and that's what we do. So
(07:04):
the House bill has a forty thousand dollars deduction. You
could detect up to forty thousand, which is outrageous. Instantly,
I want to set back for a minute, Ross, because
this is an important point for your listeners. Do you
know what percentage of Americans itemize their deductions today?
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Well, with the new like super high standard deduction, I
bet it's under twenty percent.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yeah, a lot under it's nine. Oh my gosh, So
think about this. I mean, you know, this is what
I'm trying to tell these senators. I met with a
bunch of senators this morning. I said, look, only nine
percent of Americans itemized their deductions. The other ninety one percent,
they just check the box, natter deduction, You take the
center and you're done, which was, by the way, one
of the great simplification measures ever. It made filling out
(07:48):
taxes much easier because you just check the box.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Now here's where I'm going with this. Who do you
think the nine percent are who itemized their deductions?
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Rich people?
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yes, rich people. So let's get rid of all the deductions.
You want to make the tax code there, Let's get
rid of all the deductions and lower everybody's rate.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
I'm with you. I'm right there with you, man.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
I mean, so that's what I'm trying to tell these
I mean, we're actually very close to about black tax.
Get rid of all the deductions for millionaires and billionaires.
I mean there's Bill Gates need charitable deduction, or there's
you know that you need a deduction for healthcare benefits,
that kind of thing. Obviously not. So you get rid
of all that stuff and uh, and then what you
do is lower rates and you get to a very
efficient tax system. Uh, you can maybe get the top
(08:32):
right down there, twenty five percent maybe lower. Can you
imagine how our economy would like be on rocket fuel
with that kind of a system. And so, you know,
I'm kind of frustrated. My line is, go for the
gold here, let's do it. Let's let's let's really finally
fix this tax system. You shaid, this would be no deductions.
The only deduction should be for yourself and your kids. Period.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
We're talking with Steve Moore, who, among other things, is
co founder of the Committee to Unleashed Prosperity Leash Prosperity
dot com. And when you get to that homepage at
Unleashed Prosperity dot com over toward the right side, you'll
see a little red box with white writing that says
get the hotline every day. I want you to click
on that and sign up. It's absolutely free and it's
(09:15):
an invaluable resource. All right, So Steve, let's stick with
this for a second. Okay, So you've got all these
crazy deductions. You've got the salt deduction, you've got the
Medicare or Medicaid scam, whichever one it is that you
were just talking about. Okay, so you've got all these
things that almost every Republican would say should go away.
And yet when you look at the so called big
(09:38):
beautiful bill, because the Republican majority in the House is
so small, you've got Republicans, you know, Mike Lawler famously
from New York, you got other New York Republicans in
California Republicans who are saying they won't vote for the
bill unless the salt deduction goes up. But then you've
also like, why is that scam still there? Why is
all this other stuff still there? So I'm asking you
(09:58):
this question more. It's a political analyst, which you are
the best at among economists because of what you've been
doing for so long. So as a political question, why
can't we get this done? You could pick salt as
an example without having to bend over for these people.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Well, I'm of the mind that, you know, Look, let's
take somebody like Mike Waller who's from New York and
I think he's from Long Island. It's a very wealthy Westchester.
He's from Westchester, Westchester, Okay, so that's a wealthy area.
So he has a lot of high income voters who
got not you whacked by losing the salt deduction. So
(10:37):
he serves quote standing up for his voters here, but
he's not really doing that because I just looked at
the numbers. Eighty five percent of the voters in this
district got a tax cut from the from the twenty
seventeen bill. So what he's basically saying is I'm willing
to I mean, this is not an exaggeration, and we're
going to rerunning ads in his district to say this.
(11:00):
Klawler is willing to raise tax on eighty five percent
of the taxpayers in Westchester County so that the five
percent of the richest people can get a big tax cut.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
You know, this is a thing. All right. Let me
back up. I don't know President Trump's position on the
salt deduction. I think he sort of likes the sault deduction.
But you you would know better than I do.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Yeah, I haven't really directly. I mean I think he
may you know, because he's from New York. Yeah, so
he lives in Florida.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Now I think, yeah, yeah, he does.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
You live in Florida, you don't have to worry about
because they don't have an income tax. But I don't
know where he is.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
But you know, but my point is, I would, like
I said earlier in the show Steve in a different context,
that leaders don't follow polls, they change them. And Donald
Trump is certainly capable of this. And I mean the
best example is probably immigration. He made immigration the issue
and then he won the presidency on that issue in
(11:58):
twenty sixteen, and kind of again in twenty twenty four.
There was economic stuff in twenty twenty four as well.
Why isn't Trump out there castigating or if he needs
to threatening Mike Lawler and these other people.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Well, at the end of the day, I want to
make sure your listeners understand this. We're going to pass
this bill. It's going to pass, no doubt. I mean
because as I said that, that was that failure is
not an option. If Republicans don't pass this bill, they're
going to get completely wiped out in the de term
elections and the economy is going to go into recession
and be a disaster. So they will pass it. And
I'm my job, in your job is to make sure
(12:35):
we pass the best bill we possibly can. Now the
Senate bill, the Senate bill that we you know, haven't
really discussed yet. I think as an improvement over the
House bill is just reduce the amount of the state
and local tax section, and it does other things that
I think are and I also put the cap on
the no tax on tips and no tax on overtime.
I mean, it's fine for lower middle income people, but
(12:56):
you know, if you're somebody who's you know, you know,
upper middle income don't need to get no tax on
your tips. So those kinds of things are good changes
to the bill, and we're going to get it done then.
You know, we may get it done before fourth of July,
but I don't think so. I think it'll probably take
into you know, the month of July to get the
House and Senate together on this.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
I think the worst change in the Senate bill is
is cutting back on the aggressiveness of raining in the
Green New Deal Nonsense.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Yeah, yes, yes, yes, because here's the problem with that stuff.
You know, you got the subsidies for the batteries and
the solar panels and the wind and all this stuff.
And you know, I go back a long time. We
first started with these subsidies back in the late late
late nineteen seventies when Jimmy Carter was president and every
one of them was a five year program, and here
we are forty years later, we still have them. So
(13:51):
the problem is if you don't get rid of these now,
there's just going to be permanent, you know credit. By
the way, tax credits are bad things. Just get rid
of all the tax credits. I hate tax lose revenue
for the government. So I'm hoping that we get rid
of as much of these green energy subsidies as possible.
And let's have a level playing field. I mean, every said, oh,
solar is so cheap and so efficient, and my wind
(14:13):
power is great. Okay, great, what do you need tax breaks? Then?
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Right, exactly exactly. We're talking with Steve Moore, one of
the most interesting and important and influential economists in the
United States and a very old friend of mine. And
I do mean old.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
I'm fifty five, you're sixty five. I'm going to be
getting self security. Then wow, all right, stop working.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
I want to go back and I want to do
one more minute with you on what I asked you before.
And again this is more of a political question. Why
after so many years or decades of I think most
of the public opposing, let's put it very generally opposing
the complexity of the tax code. Why does it never
(14:57):
ever get simplified.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Because the you know, when we talk about draining the
swamp and the swamp creatures, the epicenter of the power
structure in Washington, d C. Is the tax code. That's
what politicians buy and sell favors for. Hey, give me,
you know, a big contribution, and I'll get you a
tax break for this. That's the other thing, you know,
And so it's taking power away from Washington. You want
(15:23):
to drain the swamp, then you want a flat tax
because there's nothing to buy and sell. Right Just you know,
here's how much money as you make, you get the
tax deduction for yourself and your kids, and then you
pay whatever the rate is, eighteen percent. I mean, it's
so so disarmingly simple that it's just any sensible person
would say that that would be a good tax system.
But you have to you know, what's the old thing.
(15:45):
Put the toothpaste back in the tube.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
That's how all right, last last thing. And it's not economic.
And I didn't realize this data point, and I learned
it through your hotline. The last seven p m B
A MVP awards go ahead.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Oh yeah, it's an astonishing statistic. We just did a
big study on the economic benefits of legal immigration, which
are humongous. If we want to get to three percent, quote,
we're going to need more immigration, no question, legal immigration.
And so the last seven NBA NBA Most Valuable Player Awards,
and by the way, if you win the NBA Most
Valuable Player, you are the greatest basketball player in the world.
(16:26):
The last seven were foreigners, immigrants.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Including including Nicole Jokids from here in Denver. But that's unbelievable,
isn't it.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Where is he from Serbia?
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Yeah? Yeah, that's right. And then you've got the Canadian
guy in Oklahoma City right now, y Yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Was from yeah. And then uh the big center from
the Philadelphia he's from like one of the Africans.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Yeah, Cameroon, Yeah, MBB, he's from Cameroon. And Gianni's long
last long Greek last name is from Greece, and jokis
from here. The last seven that's Amazia.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Yeah. And then before that you had, you know, the
big guy from the Dallas Mavericks. Yeah, in German, I
think yeah. And uh so anyway, it's a it's amazing.
Oh and of course Hakeem Olajawan is from from Africa,
So I mean it's I made the point that this
is why, you know, it's so important that we get immigrants,
(17:26):
because we get the best, the brightest, the most talented
people in the world. I mean Elon Musk is from
North South Africa.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
So uh. I think three or four of the seven
founders of the Magnificent Seven companies which have a greater
net worth and all the all the companies in Europe
combined are immigrants.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
I hope your message gets out to the part of
the magabase that isn't just against illegal immigration, but is
against all immigration. Those those people need a little education,
and you're the guy to do it. Steve if More
is co founder of the Committee to Unleash Prosperity. Unleash
Prosperity dot com. Click on the link to sign up
for the hotline. It'll make you smarter and it's a quick,
(18:08):
easy read every morning. Thanks for doing this, Steve. Always
great to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Okay, thanks ros, have a great, great day, Okay, see y'all.
I am so happy to welcome back to the show
the chief economist of The Ross Kominski Show. His name
is Steve Moore. He is the founder of the Club
for Growth, which is when we first met. He is
co founder of the Committee to Unleashed Prosperity, which is
one of his current projects. He's been at Heritage, he's
been at CATO, and he's an all around good guy.
(00:21):
Oh and he's also an occasional economic advisor to President Trump. Hi, Steve, Hei,
it's good to be with you.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Thanks for having me. It's been a long time.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Yeah, it's been way it's been way too long. I
saw your I get your daily emails from the Committee
to Unleashed Prosperity, and I love those daily emails and
I should probably have you on Moros.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Well, know that your listeners to sign up and just
go to Unleash Prosperity dot com. And it is absolutely free.
So thanks for saying that. We have a good time
putting it together, and it's just a free little update
on what's going on with the economy and finances and politics.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Unleash Prosperity prosperity dot com. So folks, you should definitely
to go there and sign up. It's a great short
daily email that distills sometimes complex economic policy and data
into plain English that anybody can understand. And it's really good.
(01:15):
All right. So, Steve, before we get to the Senate
version of the big beautiful bill, let me just tell
you what I've said about a little bit on the radio,
and I want to know what you've said about the
House version. But what I've said is there's a lot
of good stuff in it. But for me, the increase
in the salt deduction, the note, the unlimited it and
(01:35):
we'll talk. I put that word in there for a
reason when we get to the Senate thing. But the
no tax on tips, the unlimited, no tax on overtime,
no tax on social security, and not enough cuts in
spending had me saying that, you know, in my ideal world,
if I were not motivated as a member of Congress
by having to please leadership or something like that, i'd
vote against it. So before we get to the Senate updates,
(01:58):
which I mostly like, what's your take on the House version?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
So listen, I would give the House bill about a B.
By the way, it has to pass. It's a it's
a it's a must pass bill, because if we don't
pass this bill, then we're looking at a fourtrillion dollar
tax increase on Jennifer. So it will pass. They are
going to pass this tax bill. Shame on every Democrat
in the House who voted against that bill. I don't
(02:27):
understand the logic of that, because the middle class would
get crushed by the tax burden that would be imposed
if we allowed this to expire. Now are the things
I don't like about the House bill? Yes, but I
was certainly voted for it, notwithstanding you make some very
good points. Does it cut spending it up? No? But
I want to remind people there are there. This is
(02:50):
the first of potentially three reconciliation bills. So what I'm
thinking is that instead of one beautiful bill, we may
have two or three beautiful bills. Get the tax cut now,
because it has to get done, and then let's take
a real chainsaw to some of these programs that are God,
there's five hundred billion dollars of erroneous payments by these
(03:12):
programs every year, five hundred billion dollars, So we can
easily cut more. And to your point, you know this
from reading the hotline. If you look at the ten
year baseline for what Congress is expected to spend, you know,
through the year two thousand and thirty seven or two
and thirty six, it's something like eighty five trillion, and
under the Republican budget it's eighty three point five trillion. Yeah,
(03:37):
that's not a lot of savings over ten years.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
I'm sure you remember. I'm sure you remember and probably
knew personally. An interesting I will say journalists named Robert
or Bob Novak. You must have known him.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
I knew about very well.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
And Bob used to say that God put Republicans on
Earth to cut taxes, and if they don't do that,
they have no other purpose.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
That was him.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
I was there when he said it.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
That's awesome. Okay, So my new version of that is
God put Republicans on Earth cut spending, right, right, I mean,
are you kind of there with me?
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Well? I do think, you know, we first of all,
we have got to growth the economy, and you do
that by you know, these tax cuts. And I think
it's you know, I'm just looking at the tax portion
of the bill right now. I think that's good. I
think it's sensible for the economy, sensible for families and businesses. Now,
do I think we should dramatically cut spending? Of course.
I mean, you know, I'm out of my whole life
to that. For forty years, I've been in Washington trying
(04:41):
to get that done. Yesh, does this bill deliver on that?
Not so much. He has some minor cuts, but even
things like work requirements for Medicaid and food stams, which
are no brainers. I mean, seventy five percent of Americans
agree that if you're going to get you know, free
food from the government and free healthcare, you should at
least have to be working or if looking for job,
if that is, if you're able boy, either if you're
(05:02):
in the hospital or you're in a wheelchair or mental
deficiency that you can't work. Of course, but you know,
there's millions of people on Medicaid that could be and
should be working, and they're just getting the free help share.
So we're saying, well, you got to work to get it,
and then we have to do something about the fact
that the federal government is reimbursing states and you know,
California gets ninety cents for every dollar they spend on Medicaid,
(05:26):
so they're actually balancing their budget by putting more and
more people on Medicaid. It's a scam. So we've got
to do something about that as well.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Okay, so all right, let's keep going. I keep not
getting to the Senate amendment, but we will. But I
want to stick with the thing you just said about
that scam, and I want to also tie into it
the salt deduction. To me, the salt there are many
galling things in the tax code, and there are probably
a million galling things in the tax code that I
(05:53):
don't know about that we're snuck in there for special interest,
so I'd never even learned about it. But the salt
deduction is just a way for upper middle class and
upper class people who live in high tax states to
force the rest of us to subsidize their state tax bill.
And the proper salt deduction amount is zero. I can't
(06:15):
imagine you would disagree with me on that. So let's
do you agree with me on that?
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Of course? Yeah, yet rid of that. I mean, I
was the one you know when we wrote is you know,
Larry Cutnoh, I wrote sort of the first version of
the Trump tax bill back in early twenty sixteen with Trump,
and you know, I always tell you that should be
in a Sithonian because we just sit on a legal path,
is that it should have the fifteen percent range, or
do this and that, and a lot of what we
put on that notepad ended up into law. And one
(06:41):
of the things I always insisted on when we do
this bill is we should get rid of the state
and local tax deduction because I mean, you summarize it
very well, it just allows very wealthy people in New
York and New Jersey and California to export their tax
to people living in lower tax states. That doesn't mean
it's not good economics. You never want to subsidize states
for raising their taxes, and that's what we do. So
(07:04):
the House bill has a forty thousand dollars deduction. You
could detect up to forty thousand, which is outrageous. Instantly,
I want to set back for a minute, Ross, because
this is an important point for your listeners. Do you
know what percentage of Americans itemize their deductions today?
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Well, with the new like super high standard deduction, I
bet it's under twenty percent.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yeah, a lot under it's nine. Oh my gosh, So
think about this. I mean, you know, this is what
I'm trying to tell these senators. I met with a
bunch of senators this morning. I said, look, only nine
percent of Americans itemized their deductions. The other ninety one percent,
they just check the box, natter deduction, You take the
center and you're done, which was, by the way, one
of the great simplification measures ever. It made filling out
(07:48):
taxes much easier because you just check the box.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Now here's where I'm going with this. Who do you
think the nine percent are who itemized their deductions?
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Rich people?
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yes, rich people. So let's get rid of all the deductions.
You want to make the tax code there, Let's get
rid of all the deductions and lower everybody's rate.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
I'm with you. I'm right there with you, man.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
I mean, so that's what I'm trying to tell these
I mean, we're actually very close to about black tax.
Get rid of all the deductions for millionaires and billionaires.
I mean there's Bill Gates need charitable deduction, or there's
you know that you need a deduction for healthcare benefits,
that kind of thing. Obviously not. So you get rid
of all that stuff and uh, and then what you
do is lower rates and you get to a very
efficient tax system. Uh, you can maybe get the top
(08:32):
right down there, twenty five percent maybe lower. Can you
imagine how our economy would like be on rocket fuel
with that kind of a system. And so, you know,
I'm kind of frustrated. My line is, go for the
gold here, let's do it. Let's let's let's really finally
fix this tax system. You shaid, this would be no deductions.
The only deduction should be for yourself and your kids. Period.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
We're talking with Steve Moore, who, among other things, is
co founder of the Committee to Unleashed Prosperity Leash Prosperity
dot com. And when you get to that homepage at
Unleashed Prosperity dot com over toward the right side, you'll
see a little red box with white writing that says
get the hotline every day. I want you to click
on that and sign up. It's absolutely free and it's
(09:15):
an invaluable resource. All right, So Steve, let's stick with
this for a second. Okay, So you've got all these
crazy deductions. You've got the salt deduction, you've got the
Medicare or Medicaid scam, whichever one it is that you
were just talking about. Okay, so you've got all these
things that almost every Republican would say should go away.
And yet when you look at the so called big
(09:38):
beautiful bill, because the Republican majority in the House is
so small, you've got Republicans, you know, Mike Lawler famously
from New York, you got other New York Republicans in
California Republicans who are saying they won't vote for the
bill unless the salt deduction goes up. But then you've
also like, why is that scam still there? Why is
all this other stuff still there? So I'm asking you
(09:58):
this question more. It's a political analyst, which you are
the best at among economists because of what you've been
doing for so long. So as a political question, why
can't we get this done? You could pick salt as
an example without having to bend over for these people.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Well, I'm of the mind that, you know, Look, let's
take somebody like Mike Waller who's from New York and
I think he's from Long Island. It's a very wealthy Westchester.
He's from Westchester, Westchester, Okay, so that's a wealthy area.
So he has a lot of high income voters who
got not you whacked by losing the salt deduction. So
(10:37):
he serves quote standing up for his voters here, but
he's not really doing that because I just looked at
the numbers. Eighty five percent of the voters in this
district got a tax cut from the from the twenty
seventeen bill. So what he's basically saying is I'm willing
to I mean, this is not an exaggeration, and we're
going to rerunning ads in his district to say this.
(11:00):
Klawler is willing to raise tax on eighty five percent
of the taxpayers in Westchester County so that the five
percent of the richest people can get a big tax cut.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
You know, this is a thing. All right. Let me
back up. I don't know President Trump's position on the
salt deduction. I think he sort of likes the sault deduction.
But you you would know better than I do.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Yeah, I haven't really directly. I mean I think he
may you know, because he's from New York. Yeah, so
he lives in Florida.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Now I think, yeah, yeah, he does.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
You live in Florida, you don't have to worry about
because they don't have an income tax. But I don't
know where he is.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
But you know, but my point is, I would, like
I said earlier in the show Steve in a different context,
that leaders don't follow polls, they change them. And Donald
Trump is certainly capable of this. And I mean the
best example is probably immigration. He made immigration the issue
and then he won the presidency on that issue in
(11:58):
twenty sixteen, and kind of again in twenty twenty four.
There was economic stuff in twenty twenty four as well.
Why isn't Trump out there castigating or if he needs
to threatening Mike Lawler and these other people.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Well, at the end of the day, I want to
make sure your listeners understand this. We're going to pass
this bill. It's going to pass, no doubt. I mean
because as I said that, that was that failure is
not an option. If Republicans don't pass this bill, they're
going to get completely wiped out in the de term
elections and the economy is going to go into recession
and be a disaster. So they will pass it. And
I'm my job, in your job is to make sure
(12:35):
we pass the best bill we possibly can. Now the
Senate bill, the Senate bill that we you know, haven't
really discussed yet. I think as an improvement over the
House bill is just reduce the amount of the state
and local tax section, and it does other things that
I think are and I also put the cap on
the no tax on tips and no tax on overtime.
I mean, it's fine for lower middle income people, but
(12:56):
you know, if you're somebody who's you know, you know,
upper middle income don't need to get no tax on
your tips. So those kinds of things are good changes
to the bill, and we're going to get it done then.
You know, we may get it done before fourth of July,
but I don't think so. I think it'll probably take
into you know, the month of July to get the
House and Senate together on this.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
I think the worst change in the Senate bill is
is cutting back on the aggressiveness of raining in the
Green New Deal Nonsense.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Yeah, yes, yes, yes, because here's the problem with that stuff.
You know, you got the subsidies for the batteries and
the solar panels and the wind and all this stuff.
And you know, I go back a long time. We
first started with these subsidies back in the late late
late nineteen seventies when Jimmy Carter was president and every
one of them was a five year program, and here
we are forty years later, we still have them. So
(13:51):
the problem is if you don't get rid of these now,
there's just going to be permanent, you know credit. By
the way, tax credits are bad things. Just get rid
of all the tax credits. I hate tax lose revenue
for the government. So I'm hoping that we get rid
of as much of these green energy subsidies as possible.
And let's have a level playing field. I mean, every said, oh,
solar is so cheap and so efficient, and my wind
(14:13):
power is great. Okay, great, what do you need tax breaks? Then?
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Right, exactly exactly. We're talking with Steve Moore, one of
the most interesting and important and influential economists in the
United States and a very old friend of mine. And
I do mean old.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
I'm fifty five, you're sixty five. I'm going to be
getting self security. Then wow, all right, stop working.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
I want to go back and I want to do
one more minute with you on what I asked you before.
And again this is more of a political question. Why
after so many years or decades of I think most
of the public opposing, let's put it very generally opposing
the complexity of the tax code. Why does it never
(14:57):
ever get simplified.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Because the you know, when we talk about draining the
swamp and the swamp creatures, the epicenter of the power
structure in Washington, d C. Is the tax code. That's
what politicians buy and sell favors for. Hey, give me,
you know, a big contribution, and I'll get you a
tax break for this. That's the other thing, you know,
And so it's taking power away from Washington. You want
(15:23):
to drain the swamp, then you want a flat tax
because there's nothing to buy and sell. Right Just you know,
here's how much money as you make, you get the
tax deduction for yourself and your kids, and then you
pay whatever the rate is, eighteen percent. I mean, it's
so so disarmingly simple that it's just any sensible person
would say that that would be a good tax system.
But you have to you know, what's the old thing.
(15:45):
Put the toothpaste back in the tube.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
That's how all right, last last thing. And it's not economic.
And I didn't realize this data point, and I learned
it through your hotline. The last seven p m B
A MVP awards go ahead.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Oh yeah, it's an astonishing statistic. We just did a
big study on the economic benefits of legal immigration, which
are humongous. If we want to get to three percent, quote,
we're going to need more immigration, no question, legal immigration.
And so the last seven NBA NBA Most Valuable Player Awards,
and by the way, if you win the NBA Most
Valuable Player, you are the greatest basketball player in the world.
(16:26):
The last seven were foreigners, immigrants.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Including including Nicole Jokids from here in Denver. But that's unbelievable,
isn't it.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Where is he from Serbia?
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Yeah? Yeah, that's right. And then you've got the Canadian
guy in Oklahoma City right now, y Yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Was from yeah. And then uh the big center from
the Philadelphia he's from like one of the Africans.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Yeah, Cameroon, Yeah, MBB, he's from Cameroon. And Gianni's long
last long Greek last name is from Greece, and jokis
from here. The last seven that's Amazia.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Yeah. And then before that you had, you know, the
big guy from the Dallas Mavericks. Yeah, in German, I
think yeah. And uh so anyway, it's a it's amazing.
Oh and of course Hakeem Olajawan is from from Africa,
So I mean it's I made the point that this
is why, you know, it's so important that we get immigrants,
(17:26):
because we get the best, the brightest, the most talented
people in the world. I mean Elon Musk is from
North South Africa.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
So uh. I think three or four of the seven
founders of the Magnificent Seven companies which have a greater
net worth and all the all the companies in Europe
combined are immigrants.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
I hope your message gets out to the part of
the magabase that isn't just against illegal immigration, but is
against all immigration. Those those people need a little education,
and you're the guy to do it. Steve if More
is co founder of the Committee to Unleash Prosperity. Unleash
Prosperity dot com. Click on the link to sign up
for the hotline. It'll make you smarter and it's a quick,
(18:08):
easy read every morning. Thanks for doing this, Steve. Always
great to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Okay, thanks ros, have a great, great day, Okay, see y'all.
The Ross Kaminsky Show News
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