Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This afternoon, where my next guest is, we just spent
(00:02):
a bunch of time talking about Independence Day and fundamental
American principles and so on, and we're gonna have a
little twist on that right now, still kind of in
the context of the fourth of July and what America means,
what America should stand for, and joining us talk about it.
(00:24):
A good friend of mine who I haven't on the
show in way too long, Jed Babin, is former Deputy
Undersecretary of Defense. He writes about national security and foreign
affairs for The Washington Times, and he is a contributing
editor at The American Spectator and is my first editor,
the first person ever ever to be my editor when
(00:47):
he was the first ever to pay me to write stuff.
So I'll be forever grateful for that.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Hi, Jed, Hey, I guess I got lots of a
tone for.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Indeed, the title of Ed's piece for the Washington Times
to win, we need to believe in American exceptionalism again, then,
is a foreign policy piece. So why don't you just
open it up kind of with the high level macro
thing you are describing, and then we'll get into details.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Well, really, what I'm talking about here is an element
of really kind of an attitude that has been missing
from American foreign policy and American foreign statements for I
don't know since Reagan left the presidency. You know, he
used to have the right idea. You know, when someone
asked him that, well, what was your attitude or what's
your strategy for winning the Cold War? He just said, Hey,
(01:35):
we win, they lose. It's very simple in his mind,
a very simple issue coming down from a very complicated circumstance.
And we need to return to that attitude. It's kind
of like what America stood for in my father's day.
And my father was not a typical kid from the Bronx.
He was a Marine Corps officer in World War Two.
(01:57):
He led his men into three the worst battles of
that war, Guattle Canal, Tarawa, Ewo Jima, and he came
out with the attitude saying, you know, we are America.
We don't start wars. We don't start fights, we finish them.
And that's really kind of the attitude we need. That's
the kind of thing that we have lacked again since
(02:17):
Reagan left office. And I think we do well to
think about American exceptionalism to think about why we are
what we are and how good the America really is
towards the rest of the world. If we don't do that,
if we don't have that attitude towards ourselves as much
as towards the rest of the world, I think we
lose something, and we've lost something very important in our
(02:41):
foreign policy.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
So first, let me just say utterly remarkable for somebody
to survive even one of those battles, but all three Guadalcanal, Taroa,
and Ewojima. Wow, that's really something. The other thing that
I want to say, what I think in the last
twenty years or so, the thing that has galled me
(03:05):
the most and reminded me the most of this problem
that you are describing was I guess it was Barack
Obama and the so called leading from behind. And when
I heard that leading from behind, I just thought, well,
he is intentionally weakening the country. And neither you nor
I as somebody who wants America to be the world's policeman.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Well, absolutely right. I mean, we don't want to be
the world's policeman. We shouldn't be, we can't be. But
the fact of the matter is we have to protect
our vital national security interests, our allies, our treaties. You know,
those are the things that we stand up for, we
have to fight for, quite frankly, and Barack Obama was
not willing to do any of that. He was just
(03:50):
simply out there to cozy up to the rest of
the world and say, oh, yeah, we're here where we
you know, walk all over us. But that's not why
we are America. America because we are better than the
rest of the world. We are America because we have
more freedom. Our people enjoy more freedoms than anybody else
in the world, and we have the right to brag
(04:12):
about it. As a matter of fact, I think we
have the duty to brag about it, and that's why
I wrote the piece.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
So much of your piece revolves specifically around what Trump
just did getting attacking Iranian nuclear facilities. Do you want
to just talk a little bit about those specifics.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Well, yeah, I mean, really, what we're talking about here
is the strike that went in seven The two bombers
took fourteen mops massive ordinance penetrators into Iran, came back
out without them, and did an enormous amount of damage.
We don't really know how much I mean, President Trump
(04:51):
said we obliterated the Iranian nuclear program. Well, he's pron
no exaggeration. The Iranians said, oh, well, we didn't have
any damage at all, and of course you can't believe
any of that. So the answer is somewhere in between.
We have now more reports coming out saying we've set
them back for years, and that's a good thing, but
the real issue is not over again. It comes back
(05:12):
to the attitude we are in America. We win, they lose,
and the fact is the Iranians have not lost yet.
As far as you know, I'm not a neocon, God knows,
and you can testify to that, ros, but you know,
we have to topple the Iranian regime. As long as
that regime exists, it will be a negative force in
(05:35):
the world, a tremendous force for instability, and quite frankly,
it's nuclear ambitions cannot be accepted in any respect.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
The way I've thought about that, and tell me if
you think I'm wrong, is I think it would be
a mistake and at least currently illegal under executive order,
for US to assassinate COMMANI. But I think we should
do everything we can to weaken the regime. That the
Iranian people can, can you have another revolution or and
(06:05):
this doesn't bother me at all, because they're not operating
under our executive orders. Wouldn't trouble me, particularly if Israel
killed Kamani.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Wouldn't trouble me either. You're right, I mean executive order.
I forget which number is ten three thirty three or
something like that, which goes back to Reagan says we
don't do assassinations. However, I have advocated several times in
my columns that the president's sign was called a presidential directive,
a top secret document which would direct the CIA to
(06:36):
topple the Iapolo's regime, and that would be something, well,
I think they can. I don't think the CIA is
that good, quite frankly.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
And that's not a small country, and the IRGC is
very vague and powerful, correct.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
And I think also that you know, the Iranians, I
don't think they have a group that we could latch
onto to frankly, topple that region. I don't think they're
that organized. I don't think they're that well developed in
their opposition. So it may not be possible, but I
think we have to get the shot.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
At least last quick question for you, I got just
under a minute here. How do you think your concept
of re establishing American exceptionalism in the way of foreign
policy applies to what our policy should be with Ukraine?
Speaker 2 (07:26):
I think our policy from that standpoint, our policy should
be that you know, Putin is the enemy. He is
not someone we're going to ever be friends with, so
we ought to help Ukraine. And I think mister Trump
is making a very big mistake in cutting off the
armshipments to them right now.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Yeah, I agree with you and folks, just so we're clear, right,
Jet is a conservative Republican who was Deputy under Secretary
of Defense and deep Thinker's been a deep thinker for
many years on these issues. And he does have to
live down the fact that he was the first person
ever to pay me to write an article. And and
(08:04):
and here we are Jed Babins piece for the Washington
Times is to win, we need to believe in American exceptionalism. Again.
You can read Jed's writing there weekly typically is it
once a week, twice a week? What are you doing
at the Times?
Speaker 2 (08:17):
It's once a week now and it said varies from
day to day.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
There you go and then also, folks, if you go
to Spectator to out of origin and see Jed's writing
there as well. Thank you, my friend, thanks for your time,
have a wonderful fourth of July.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Thank you. Same to you Ross, thank you very much.
All right,
This afternoon, where my next guest is, we just spent
(00:02):
a bunch of time talking about Independence Day and fundamental
American principles and so on, and we're gonna have a
little twist on that right now, still kind of in
the context of the fourth of July and what America means,
what America should stand for, and joining us talk about it.
(00:24):
A good friend of mine who I haven't on the
show in way too long, Jed Babin, is former Deputy
Undersecretary of Defense. He writes about national security and foreign
affairs for The Washington Times, and he is a contributing
editor at The American Spectator and is my first editor,
the first person ever ever to be my editor when
(00:47):
he was the first ever to pay me to write stuff.
So I'll be forever grateful for that.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Hi, Jed, Hey, I guess I got lots of a
tone for.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Indeed, the title of Ed's piece for the Washington Times
to win, we need to believe in American exceptionalism again, then,
is a foreign policy piece. So why don't you just
open it up kind of with the high level macro
thing you are describing, and then we'll get into details.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Well, really, what I'm talking about here is an element
of really kind of an attitude that has been missing
from American foreign policy and American foreign statements for I
don't know since Reagan left the presidency. You know, he
used to have the right idea. You know, when someone
asked him that, well, what was your attitude or what's
your strategy for winning the Cold War? He just said, Hey,
(01:35):
we win, they lose. It's very simple in his mind,
a very simple issue coming down from a very complicated circumstance.
And we need to return to that attitude. It's kind
of like what America stood for in my father's day.
And my father was not a typical kid from the Bronx.
He was a Marine Corps officer in World War Two.
(01:57):
He led his men into three the worst battles of
that war, Guattle Canal, Tarawa, Ewo Jima, and he came
out with the attitude saying, you know, we are America.
We don't start wars. We don't start fights, we finish them.
And that's really kind of the attitude we need. That's
the kind of thing that we have lacked again since
(02:17):
Reagan left office. And I think we do well to
think about American exceptionalism to think about why we are
what we are and how good the America really is
towards the rest of the world. If we don't do that,
if we don't have that attitude towards ourselves as much
as towards the rest of the world, I think we
lose something, and we've lost something very important in our
(02:41):
foreign policy.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
So first, let me just say utterly remarkable for somebody
to survive even one of those battles, but all three Guadalcanal, Taroa,
and Ewojima. Wow, that's really something. The other thing that
I want to say, what I think in the last
twenty years or so, the thing that has galled me
(03:05):
the most and reminded me the most of this problem
that you are describing was I guess it was Barack
Obama and the so called leading from behind. And when
I heard that leading from behind, I just thought, well,
he is intentionally weakening the country. And neither you nor
I as somebody who wants America to be the world's policeman.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Well, absolutely right. I mean, we don't want to be
the world's policeman. We shouldn't be, we can't be. But
the fact of the matter is we have to protect
our vital national security interests, our allies, our treaties. You know,
those are the things that we stand up for, we
have to fight for, quite frankly, and Barack Obama was
not willing to do any of that. He was just
(03:50):
simply out there to cozy up to the rest of
the world and say, oh, yeah, we're here where we
you know, walk all over us. But that's not why
we are America. America because we are better than the
rest of the world. We are America because we have
more freedom. Our people enjoy more freedoms than anybody else
in the world, and we have the right to brag
(04:12):
about it. As a matter of fact, I think we
have the duty to brag about it, and that's why
I wrote the piece.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
So much of your piece revolves specifically around what Trump
just did getting attacking Iranian nuclear facilities. Do you want
to just talk a little bit about those specifics.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Well, yeah, I mean, really, what we're talking about here
is the strike that went in seven The two bombers
took fourteen mops massive ordinance penetrators into Iran, came back
out without them, and did an enormous amount of damage.
We don't really know how much I mean, President Trump
(04:51):
said we obliterated the Iranian nuclear program. Well, he's pron
no exaggeration. The Iranians said, oh, well, we didn't have
any damage at all, and of course you can't believe
any of that. So the answer is somewhere in between.
We have now more reports coming out saying we've set
them back for years, and that's a good thing, but
the real issue is not over again. It comes back
(05:12):
to the attitude we are in America. We win, they lose,
and the fact is the Iranians have not lost yet.
As far as you know, I'm not a neocon, God knows,
and you can testify to that, ros, but you know,
we have to topple the Iranian regime. As long as
that regime exists, it will be a negative force in
(05:35):
the world, a tremendous force for instability, and quite frankly,
it's nuclear ambitions cannot be accepted in any respect.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
The way I've thought about that, and tell me if
you think I'm wrong, is I think it would be
a mistake and at least currently illegal under executive order,
for US to assassinate COMMANI. But I think we should
do everything we can to weaken the regime. That the
Iranian people can, can you have another revolution or and
(06:05):
this doesn't bother me at all, because they're not operating
under our executive orders. Wouldn't trouble me, particularly if Israel
killed Kamani.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Wouldn't trouble me either. You're right, I mean executive order.
I forget which number is ten three thirty three or
something like that, which goes back to Reagan says we
don't do assassinations. However, I have advocated several times in
my columns that the president's sign was called a presidential directive,
a top secret document which would direct the CIA to
(06:36):
topple the Iapolo's regime, and that would be something, well,
I think they can. I don't think the CIA is
that good, quite frankly.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
And that's not a small country, and the IRGC is
very vague and powerful, correct.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
And I think also that you know, the Iranians, I
don't think they have a group that we could latch
onto to frankly, topple that region. I don't think they're
that organized. I don't think they're that well developed in
their opposition. So it may not be possible, but I
think we have to get the shot.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
At least last quick question for you, I got just
under a minute here. How do you think your concept
of re establishing American exceptionalism in the way of foreign
policy applies to what our policy should be with Ukraine?
Speaker 2 (07:26):
I think our policy from that standpoint, our policy should
be that you know, Putin is the enemy. He is
not someone we're going to ever be friends with, so
we ought to help Ukraine. And I think mister Trump
is making a very big mistake in cutting off the
armshipments to them right now.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Yeah, I agree with you and folks, just so we're clear, right,
Jet is a conservative Republican who was Deputy under Secretary
of Defense and deep Thinker's been a deep thinker for
many years on these issues. And he does have to
live down the fact that he was the first person
ever to pay me to write an article. And and
(08:04):
and here we are Jed Babins piece for the Washington
Times is to win, we need to believe in American exceptionalism. Again.
You can read Jed's writing there weekly typically is it
once a week, twice a week? What are you doing
at the Times?
Speaker 2 (08:17):
It's once a week now and it said varies from
day to day.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
There you go and then also, folks, if you go
to Spectator to out of origin and see Jed's writing
there as well. Thank you, my friend, thanks for your time,
have a wonderful fourth of July.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Thank you. Same to you Ross, thank you very much.
All right,
The Ross Kaminsky Show News
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