Dave Matheny is Founder and CEO of Silencer Shop, the largest distributor of suppressors in the nation, and they work with local dealers as well who rely on Silencer Shop to handle the gov’t paperwork.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm very pleased to welcome back to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Is second time on with me, although I think probably
the first time on Kawa because the previous time I
was on our sister station across the hall.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Dave Matheni is founder and CEO.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Of Silencer Shop, And if you are in the firearms
at all, even if you've never bought a suppressor that
some people call silencers, although I prefer the term suppressor myself,
you will be aware of Silencer Shop because if you've
even ever thought about buying one, the easiest and best
(00:34):
way is to use their services, whether you are buying
the suppressor from them, or whether you use their services
for certain kinds of paperwork and then buy the suppressor at.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
A gun store or whatever.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
But we have a lot to talk about, so David,
it's very good to have you on the show.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Thanks for being here.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Yeah, thanks for having me on again.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
So before we get to all the legal stuff, just
as I'm not quite a gun nut, but I'm in.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
That direction right, I.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Was telling my listeners before, I have somewhere between twenty
five and thirty firearms. You know, lots of different kinds,
and I enjoy them all and I really love. I
really love suppressors, right, I really love, you know, ones
I have to put on. I've got a couple that
are integrated into the firearms. But I haven't been in
the market for a suppressor for quite a while. And
(01:24):
as I'm looking at your website, it seems like there's
a lot of really cool new stuff. There's brands I
haven't heard of before, maybe even some new technology.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
So just give us a little bit.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
About what's going on in the world of suppressors separate
from law.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Yeah, you know, right now, there's so many advances happening,
so many new brands. Three D printing is kind of
changing how people look at silencers, right, the better performance,
lower blowback, you know less. I mean, everything about it
is better. They're smaller, lighter, quieter than they used to be.
(02:01):
It's really really impressive. And some companies are even going
with hybrid you know, traditional manufacturing and the three D
printed like Silencer Co, so they're easier to warranty that
you get all the benefits of three D printing. I mean,
it's it's impressive. What's happening right now?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Do you tell me like one new technology in the
past few years, separate from style of more, let's say,
in the way they're being designed rather than three D
printing versus traditional manufacturing. That makes a difference in the
performance of the of the suppressor.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
You know, it really does well kind of down to
three D printing. So in the even when you talk
about features, they can do things with baffle geometry that
just were not possible. Right when you start talking about
flow through designs where the gases tend to flow through
instead of being just you know, held up at each bafvel,
and you're getting the point where you can with those
(02:58):
advanced geometries in the apples, you can actually get the
same sound levels that you used to be able to
get with a traditional manufacturing or even better but with
less flowback. I guess it really, Like I said, three
D printing is that is the key to all these changes?
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Yeah, that's fascinating. Just does that flow through it all?
Speaker 2 (03:17):
If I can use if I can make a double
entendra on the term flow through, does.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
That flow through it all? To the to the pricing of.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Suppressors or three D printed suppressors any less expensive or
more expensive than traditionally manufactured, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
They're more expensive for the average consumer. Flow through or sorry,
the three D printed stuff just hasn't gotten to the
price where it makes sense yet. You know it'll get there,
but it's a few years out right now. For most customers,
they're probably still going to be looking at traditional cants
just because of the price of said they can be
half the cost.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Interesting, So, okay, is these days for a let's say
suppressor you might use on an AR fifteen to two three.
I mean, there's a huge range, but I'm thinking average
is probably in the neighborhood of seven or eight hundred
bucks for the traditional manufacturing is or at least it
was last time I was looking.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Is that's still about right?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
And then are you saying the three D printed ones
might be fifteen hundred right now?
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Yeah, that's about right. Usually you're looking at about five
to eight hundred for a traditional five five six km
mm hm. When you get into three D printing, you're
really looking at twelve hundred to you know, fifteen hundred.
That's about Riley, got it?
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Okay? One other question, what's the biggest misconception about silencers
slash suppressors.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
You know, I think it comes from the name, and
it comes from movies for decades, but people think they're silent,
and they're just not. They can be super comfortable to shoot,
they're hearing safe in most cases, but they are not
even close to silent.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
What I tell my listeners is the only time you
get even vaguely slightly almost close to silence to silent
would be twenty two caliber with obviously a suppressor and
subsonic AMMO and other and even that's not silent, but
(05:18):
it's as quiet as you're going to get.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
But it also has very limited uses.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
That's right, Yeah, that's exactly right. I will say though,
as far as comfort of shooting, you can take like
a hennoby bore rifle like a three hundred wind mag
or a three thirty eight lapoua even out of a
bolt gun with good suppressor, and it is comfortable to
shoot with no hearing protection, completely hearing to say, but
not silent. Righty around you is going to know you
(05:44):
shot again. It's just comfortable to shoot.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Right we're talking with Dave Matheni, founder and CEO of
Silencer Shop. Silencershop dot com is the website. Well, one
more on this and then we'll talk about the law
I did not I did not realize when I first
got involved with suppressors that they had a noticeable.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Impact on recoil.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
I always thought of them only as a hearing protection thing.
But just tell us a little bit about the impact
on recoil and maybe just a hint of the physics
of why that works.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
You know, people don't realize that. You know, the getting
quieter is obvious. But with silencers you have less recoil,
you have more velocity, measurably higher velocity and better accuracy
in most cases, and as far as the recoil goes,
think of it. You look at a traditional muscle break
where you're shooting essentially through the essentially through baffles, but
(06:48):
without an atter too. But muscle break is designed just
like a silencer in a lot of ways. It's just
the can is containing the gases that it's holding back.
Does that make sense. It's a It's actually pretty impressive.
They're just as effective as a muzzle break up to
a certain point, like when you get to really heavy calibers,
muzzle breaks are better. But on the traditional guns most
(07:10):
people are shooting, silencers are just as good as a
muzzle break.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
I did not know.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
The other thing that you said about higher velocity is
that is that because it functions like a longer barrel
that keeps the gas pressure behind the projectile for longer.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Yep, yep. So you wind up with the Now you
don't have the constriction of the barrel, but you still
have the gases building it behind it, and we'll measure
ten percent higher velocity in some cases. Wow, it's a
It can be meaningful. Obviously, that depends on the length
of the can and the design of the can, but
it's always higher.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Velocity, right, And for those new to the conversation, can
is slang for a suppressor or silencer. So does that mean,
Dave that if you have a rifle sighted in at
three hundred yards that you would have to make some
adjustments if you put a suppressor on it because the
(08:05):
round will not have fallen as much at three hundred
yards if you've got the can on it.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Yeah, that's one hundred percent rye is, you'll have a
point of impact. We'll almost always ship with a supressor
on there. But your accuracy will improve. So your group
sizes will shrink, but they'll just move to a different
place and it's completely repeatable. Wow. So you do want
to have to sided on differently with the suppressor.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Okay, so let's start talking about the law a little bit.
One of my great frustrations and yours, i'm sure, with
suppressors has been that whenever you buy one, you have
to go through this ridiculous NFA process that's basically the
same thing you would have to do if you were
buying a machine gun, and it involves annoying paperwork, a
(08:53):
two hundred dollars tax stamp for every suppressor. If you
were going to buy three all at once, every single
one of them wouldn't need a two hundred dollars tax stamp.
And then you have to wait different amounts of time.
But for me, the longest I ever had to wait
was thirteen months to get permission to take that suppressor
(09:14):
out of the shop.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
I think the waight time is down a lot now.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
But still so with that as context, Dave, what was
supposed to be in the Big Beautiful Bill and what
ended up being in the Big Beautiful Bill?
Speaker 4 (09:25):
About this, you know, the original goal, going back to
December January last year, was to get a full deregulation
of silencers into the Big Beautiful Bill.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
It's a we started seeing signs in January February that
the that this wasn't going to pass the process, right,
I mean, most people probably don't really understand the intricacies
of this budget bill staff. So the goal was get HPA.
But if it didn't go in to have a backup,
(09:58):
and I tell you that GOA was super instrumental in
making sure that Steff went through. Right. It's so we
wound up with a win, but just not the win
we want it.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
So what is the state of the law right now.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
If someone's going to go buy a suppressor h what
what's different or or what what's the process?
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Well, first of all, wait times have dropped to days
instead of months. So I think our median weight right
now is like four days. Last time. I look, you
buy a bouncer, you get it four days later. That's gigantic.
And then starting in January, there will be no more
two hundred dollars tax, so that's that's also big. So
the main thing is you still have to go through
the registration and that's the part we still need to kill.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Okay, so you still you still have to do the paperwork.
You don't have to pay the tax, do you know? Okay,
So here's a very annoying thing. And and I'm going
to ask you. My question for you, Dave, will be
has this changed but just for listeners. So you you
pay two hundred dollars, you submit your paperwork, you get this,
You get it back with a literal stamp tax on
(11:06):
it a two hundred dollars. It looks like a postage stamp.
And you're supposed to have this thing, not a copy,
the original on your person, you know, or with you
whenever you are out of your house with the suppressor,
you go hunting, you got a suppressor on your rifle,
you go to the gun range with the supressor on,
You're supposed to have this piece of paper with you,
the original again, So if you lose it, you're you're
(11:28):
pretty hosed. You got to go spend another two hundred dollars,
I guess, but before this change. So do you know
if that part of it is gonna is gonna change, Dave, Like,
there's no there's gonna be no tax, but I am
I still gonna have to have that piece of paper
with me all the time.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Yeah, And they do allow a copy, So that's that's
kind of a misconception. A copy is fine, And actually preferred.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
All right, the gun store told me.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
What's that?
Speaker 2 (11:54):
The gun store told me it had to be the original,
So I just learned something.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Thank you for that.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
Yeah, it does not, and the ATF, if you lose it,
they will actually send you a certified copy of the
original again, so you don't have to pay another two
hundred dollar tacks. Do you lose it?
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Good, I was misinformed, But regardless, keep that you're safe,
keep a copy with you that and going back to
your question, that will not change. So under starting in January,
there's no two hundred dollars tax once again, the wait
time is just you know, three or four days now,
but you still have to register it, and you stop
to keep that piece of paper with you, you know,
(12:30):
to prove that it's that it's registered to you.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
A listener wants to know if you have to tell
the ATF if you move when you buy a suppressor.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
You know, that's a weird rule because and it's super
confusing because with silencers you do not have to tell them,
but with SDRs you do. So that's a there's some
weird inconsistency and how this stuff is regulated.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
So give us twenty nine seconds defining an SBR and
and what happened with SBRs in this bill.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Basically SBR shorten rifle. Any any rifle with a barrel
length under sixteen inches, that's an SBR. And they also
the tax also dropped a zero on them. The same
exact changes with silencers rush pressers.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Okay, and that's a that's a really stupid category. But
I think it goes back to like sawt off shotguns.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
From the al capone days or something.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
But it's a really moronic category that shouldn't exist at all.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Am I missing something that they shouldn't.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Oh? No, this the entire NFA is domb There's there's
really not a whole lot of sense in that law.
That's why just getting it unwind is getting it unwound
is our top priority.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Okay, thanks, right, So let's get to that now. In
the in the few minutes we have left, I'm looking
at a filing in the United States District Court for
the Northern District of Texas where the lead plaintiff, not
the only plaintiff, but the lead plaintiff is Silencer Shop Foundation,
and the lead defendant is the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms,
(14:05):
and explosives. So you are suing the federal government. What
exactly is your claim? What exactly are you trying to
get done?
Speaker 3 (14:16):
You know, the only reason the NFA, which is how
these things are all regulated, has held up in court
this registration scheme that they created in the nineteen thirties.
The only reason this is held up in court is
because it's a tax right, and Supreme Court is ruled
over and over again, including with Obamacare, you can regulate
almost anything with the tax. But they've also said you
(14:37):
cannot regulate anything with the tax that does not collect
any revenue. So as soon as that tax drop the
zero that opens us up for a whole lawsuit where
we can actually remove these items from the NFA through
the courts based on their own rules. I mean that
this is actually, as you were, all tax is a
bigger win than most people realize. That's super close option.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
That's very clever. Did you already know this? Did you
think of this?
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Who?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
I mean, that's that's really smart. So in a sense,
you know, having it still in the NFA, but a
zero dollar tax, if it plays out the way you
the way you think it will, that's a critical and
absolutely critical step that well, as you just said, is
potentially a much bigger win than most people, including I
had had thought. Was that your idea? Where did that
(15:25):
come from?
Speaker 3 (15:27):
It was our idea within Silencer Shop. It was not
my idea personally.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
So it's a and I tell you what this is.
The zero dollar tax opens up two options that most
people don't realize. One is in the courts, which we
filed on July fourth, and I think we've got a
good shot with this lawsuit. The second thing is, every
time you pass any budget bill, you have to come
up with an offset. So if you're collecting ten billion
(15:53):
dollars less than taxes, you have to come up with
ten billion dollars more than you're going to collect somewhere else.
Now this tax has dropped it zero. It makes deregulation
through another bill a lot simpler because we no longer
get an offset. So it opens up two opportunities for
deregulation that we could get during you know, by the
end of Trump's term. Hopefully that's what we're shooting more.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Very very clever. All right, last last quick question.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
So one of the things that I did, thanks to
you guys, is I put my suppressors in a trust.
Do you if you win the lawsuit, would that mean
the need to have that kind of trust owning your
suppressors goes away?
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Oh? Yes, trust trust become not a thing again. Okay,
now though seriously I recommend to pretty much everybody put
your silencer in a trust. It makes more sense just
for possession. Right after we win this, Yeah, trust you
could trust go away.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
And folks, if you want to learn more about these
trusts and how easy and cheap they are, because I
know firsthand because I did this with silent answer Shop,
you can go to silencershop dot com. All right, one
of the last very quick questions for you, Dave, and
we're talking with Dave.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Mattheenie, who's founder and CEO of silencer Shop.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
It seems to me like you are in a very
admirable way working out of principle here to get this
stuff removed from NFA, because it seems to me, well,
it's a double edged sword. It seems to me that
doing this in a way could hurt your business because
(17:30):
people won't need a lot of paperwork that they need
now that you help them with. On the other hand,
if the two hundred dollars tax stamp, and just the
brain damage of all of it goes away. A lot
more people might buy a lot more suppressors, so you
could make more money that way. But from a business perspective,
give me just a few seconds on how you're thinking
about it.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
You know, if you look at the gun industry there
and we're just going off of Knicks checks, the FBI
check when you will buy a gun, there are two
million per month. If you look at the silencer industry,
there's last year there were seven hundred and fifty thousand,
not quite seven hundred and fifty thousand for the entire year.
The reality is there should be and I'm going to
(18:12):
make up a number here, there should be a silencer
sold every maybe two silencers sold every three guns. That
should be the ratio that we see. The silencer markets
should be dramatically bigger than it is. And the paperwork
and the registration are what actulutely kill the market. I mean,
it's the right thing to do to get silences out
of the NFA, but also this market can't grow without that.
(18:35):
We've reached a point where we need them out of
the NFA. We really do.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Dave Metheni is founder and CEO of Silencer Shop. I
am a repeat customer and just love how they make
it as easy as anybody can to deal with what
has been a very difficult process, and maybe between the
big beautiful Bill and Dave's new lawsuit against the federal government,
maybe it'll get much easier. You can learn more at
(19:00):
silencershop dot com.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Dave, thanks for being back on the show. I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Glad too.
I'm very pleased to welcome back to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Is second time on with me, although I think probably
the first time on Kawa because the previous time I
was on our sister station across the hall.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Dave Matheni is founder and CEO.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Of Silencer Shop, And if you are in the firearms
at all, even if you've never bought a suppressor that
some people call silencers, although I prefer the term suppressor myself,
you will be aware of Silencer Shop because if you've
even ever thought about buying one, the easiest and best
(00:34):
way is to use their services, whether you are buying
the suppressor from them, or whether you use their services
for certain kinds of paperwork and then buy the suppressor at.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
A gun store or whatever.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
But we have a lot to talk about, so David,
it's very good to have you on the show.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Thanks for being here.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Yeah, thanks for having me on again.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
So before we get to all the legal stuff, just
as I'm not quite a gun nut, but I'm in.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
That direction right, I.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Was telling my listeners before, I have somewhere between twenty
five and thirty firearms. You know, lots of different kinds,
and I enjoy them all and I really love. I
really love suppressors, right, I really love, you know, ones
I have to put on. I've got a couple that
are integrated into the firearms. But I haven't been in
the market for a suppressor for quite a while. And
(01:24):
as I'm looking at your website, it seems like there's
a lot of really cool new stuff. There's brands I
haven't heard of before, maybe even some new technology.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
So just give us a little bit.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
About what's going on in the world of suppressors separate
from law.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Yeah, you know, right now, there's so many advances happening,
so many new brands. Three D printing is kind of
changing how people look at silencers, right, the better performance,
lower blowback, you know less. I mean, everything about it
is better. They're smaller, lighter, quieter than they used to be.
(02:01):
It's really really impressive. And some companies are even going
with hybrid you know, traditional manufacturing and the three D
printed like Silencer Co, so they're easier to warranty that
you get all the benefits of three D printing. I mean,
it's it's impressive. What's happening right now?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Do you tell me like one new technology in the
past few years, separate from style of more, let's say,
in the way they're being designed rather than three D
printing versus traditional manufacturing. That makes a difference in the
performance of the of the suppressor.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
You know, it really does well kind of down to
three D printing. So in the even when you talk
about features, they can do things with baffle geometry that
just were not possible. Right when you start talking about
flow through designs where the gases tend to flow through
instead of being just you know, held up at each bafvel,
and you're getting the point where you can with those
(02:58):
advanced geometries in the apples, you can actually get the
same sound levels that you used to be able to
get with a traditional manufacturing or even better but with
less flowback. I guess it really, Like I said, three
D printing is that is the key to all these changes?
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Yeah, that's fascinating. Just does that flow through it all?
Speaker 2 (03:17):
If I can use if I can make a double
entendra on the term flow through, does.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
That flow through it all? To the to the pricing of.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Suppressors or three D printed suppressors any less expensive or
more expensive than traditionally manufactured, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
They're more expensive for the average consumer. Flow through or sorry,
the three D printed stuff just hasn't gotten to the
price where it makes sense yet. You know it'll get there,
but it's a few years out right now. For most customers,
they're probably still going to be looking at traditional cants
just because of the price of said they can be
half the cost.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Interesting, So, okay, is these days for a let's say
suppressor you might use on an AR fifteen to two three.
I mean, there's a huge range, but I'm thinking average
is probably in the neighborhood of seven or eight hundred
bucks for the traditional manufacturing is or at least it
was last time I was looking.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Is that's still about right?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
And then are you saying the three D printed ones
might be fifteen hundred right now?
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Yeah, that's about right. Usually you're looking at about five
to eight hundred for a traditional five five six km
mm hm. When you get into three D printing, you're
really looking at twelve hundred to you know, fifteen hundred.
That's about Riley, got it?
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Okay? One other question, what's the biggest misconception about silencers
slash suppressors.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
You know, I think it comes from the name, and
it comes from movies for decades, but people think they're silent,
and they're just not. They can be super comfortable to shoot,
they're hearing safe in most cases, but they are not
even close to silent.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
What I tell my listeners is the only time you
get even vaguely slightly almost close to silence to silent
would be twenty two caliber with obviously a suppressor and
subsonic AMMO and other and even that's not silent, but
(05:18):
it's as quiet as you're going to get.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
But it also has very limited uses.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
That's right, Yeah, that's exactly right. I will say though,
as far as comfort of shooting, you can take like
a hennoby bore rifle like a three hundred wind mag
or a three thirty eight lapoua even out of a
bolt gun with good suppressor, and it is comfortable to
shoot with no hearing protection, completely hearing to say, but
not silent. Righty around you is going to know you
(05:44):
shot again. It's just comfortable to shoot.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Right we're talking with Dave Matheni, founder and CEO of
Silencer Shop. Silencershop dot com is the website. Well, one
more on this and then we'll talk about the law
I did not I did not realize when I first
got involved with suppressors that they had a noticeable.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Impact on recoil.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
I always thought of them only as a hearing protection thing.
But just tell us a little bit about the impact
on recoil and maybe just a hint of the physics
of why that works.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
You know, people don't realize that. You know, the getting
quieter is obvious. But with silencers you have less recoil,
you have more velocity, measurably higher velocity and better accuracy
in most cases, and as far as the recoil goes,
think of it. You look at a traditional muscle break
where you're shooting essentially through the essentially through baffles, but
(06:48):
without an atter too. But muscle break is designed just
like a silencer in a lot of ways. It's just
the can is containing the gases that it's holding back.
Does that make sense. It's a It's actually pretty impressive.
They're just as effective as a muzzle break up to
a certain point, like when you get to really heavy calibers,
muzzle breaks are better. But on the traditional guns most
(07:10):
people are shooting, silencers are just as good as a
muzzle break.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
I did not know.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
The other thing that you said about higher velocity is
that is that because it functions like a longer barrel
that keeps the gas pressure behind the projectile for longer.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Yep, yep. So you wind up with the Now you
don't have the constriction of the barrel, but you still
have the gases building it behind it, and we'll measure
ten percent higher velocity in some cases. Wow, it's a
It can be meaningful. Obviously, that depends on the length
of the can and the design of the can, but
it's always higher.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Velocity, right, And for those new to the conversation, can
is slang for a suppressor or silencer. So does that mean,
Dave that if you have a rifle sighted in at
three hundred yards that you would have to make some
adjustments if you put a suppressor on it because the
(08:05):
round will not have fallen as much at three hundred
yards if you've got the can on it.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Yeah, that's one hundred percent rye is, you'll have a
point of impact. We'll almost always ship with a supressor
on there. But your accuracy will improve. So your group
sizes will shrink, but they'll just move to a different
place and it's completely repeatable. Wow. So you do want
to have to sided on differently with the suppressor.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Okay, so let's start talking about the law a little bit.
One of my great frustrations and yours, i'm sure, with
suppressors has been that whenever you buy one, you have
to go through this ridiculous NFA process that's basically the
same thing you would have to do if you were
buying a machine gun, and it involves annoying paperwork, a
(08:53):
two hundred dollars tax stamp for every suppressor. If you
were going to buy three all at once, every single
one of them wouldn't need a two hundred dollars tax stamp.
And then you have to wait different amounts of time.
But for me, the longest I ever had to wait
was thirteen months to get permission to take that suppressor
(09:14):
out of the shop.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
I think the waight time is down a lot now.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
But still so with that as context, Dave, what was
supposed to be in the Big Beautiful Bill and what
ended up being in the Big Beautiful Bill?
Speaker 4 (09:25):
About this, you know, the original goal, going back to
December January last year, was to get a full deregulation
of silencers into the Big Beautiful Bill.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
It's a we started seeing signs in January February that
the that this wasn't going to pass the process, right,
I mean, most people probably don't really understand the intricacies
of this budget bill staff. So the goal was get HPA.
But if it didn't go in to have a backup,
(09:58):
and I tell you that GOA was super instrumental in
making sure that Steff went through. Right. It's so we
wound up with a win, but just not the win
we want it.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
So what is the state of the law right now.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
If someone's going to go buy a suppressor h what
what's different or or what what's the process?
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Well, first of all, wait times have dropped to days
instead of months. So I think our median weight right
now is like four days. Last time. I look, you
buy a bouncer, you get it four days later. That's gigantic.
And then starting in January, there will be no more
two hundred dollars tax, so that's that's also big. So
the main thing is you still have to go through
the registration and that's the part we still need to kill.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Okay, so you still you still have to do the paperwork.
You don't have to pay the tax, do you know? Okay,
So here's a very annoying thing. And and I'm going
to ask you. My question for you, Dave, will be
has this changed but just for listeners. So you you
pay two hundred dollars, you submit your paperwork, you get this,
You get it back with a literal stamp tax on
(11:06):
it a two hundred dollars. It looks like a postage stamp.
And you're supposed to have this thing, not a copy,
the original on your person, you know, or with you
whenever you are out of your house with the suppressor,
you go hunting, you got a suppressor on your rifle,
you go to the gun range with the supressor on,
You're supposed to have this piece of paper with you,
the original again, So if you lose it, you're you're
(11:28):
pretty hosed. You got to go spend another two hundred dollars,
I guess, but before this change. So do you know
if that part of it is gonna is gonna change, Dave, Like,
there's no there's gonna be no tax, but I am
I still gonna have to have that piece of paper
with me all the time.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Yeah, And they do allow a copy, So that's that's
kind of a misconception. A copy is fine, And actually preferred.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
All right, the gun store told me.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
What's that?
Speaker 2 (11:54):
The gun store told me it had to be the original,
So I just learned something.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Thank you for that.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
Yeah, it does not, and the ATF, if you lose it,
they will actually send you a certified copy of the
original again, so you don't have to pay another two
hundred dollar tacks. Do you lose it?
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Good, I was misinformed, But regardless, keep that you're safe,
keep a copy with you that and going back to
your question, that will not change. So under starting in January,
there's no two hundred dollars tax once again, the wait
time is just you know, three or four days now,
but you still have to register it, and you stop
to keep that piece of paper with you, you know,
(12:30):
to prove that it's that it's registered to you.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
A listener wants to know if you have to tell
the ATF if you move when you buy a suppressor.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
You know, that's a weird rule because and it's super
confusing because with silencers you do not have to tell them,
but with SDRs you do. So that's a there's some
weird inconsistency and how this stuff is regulated.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
So give us twenty nine seconds defining an SBR and
and what happened with SBRs in this bill.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Basically SBR shorten rifle. Any any rifle with a barrel
length under sixteen inches, that's an SBR. And they also
the tax also dropped a zero on them. The same
exact changes with silencers rush pressers.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Okay, and that's a that's a really stupid category. But
I think it goes back to like sawt off shotguns.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
From the al capone days or something.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
But it's a really moronic category that shouldn't exist at all.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Am I missing something that they shouldn't.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Oh? No, this the entire NFA is domb There's there's
really not a whole lot of sense in that law.
That's why just getting it unwind is getting it unwound
is our top priority.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Okay, thanks, right, So let's get to that now. In
the in the few minutes we have left, I'm looking
at a filing in the United States District Court for
the Northern District of Texas where the lead plaintiff, not
the only plaintiff, but the lead plaintiff is Silencer Shop Foundation,
and the lead defendant is the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms,
(14:05):
and explosives. So you are suing the federal government. What
exactly is your claim? What exactly are you trying to
get done?
Speaker 3 (14:16):
You know, the only reason the NFA, which is how
these things are all regulated, has held up in court
this registration scheme that they created in the nineteen thirties.
The only reason this is held up in court is
because it's a tax right, and Supreme Court is ruled
over and over again, including with Obamacare, you can regulate
almost anything with the tax. But they've also said you
(14:37):
cannot regulate anything with the tax that does not collect
any revenue. So as soon as that tax drop the
zero that opens us up for a whole lawsuit where
we can actually remove these items from the NFA through
the courts based on their own rules. I mean that
this is actually, as you were, all tax is a
bigger win than most people realize. That's super close option.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
That's very clever. Did you already know this? Did you
think of this?
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Who?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
I mean, that's that's really smart. So in a sense,
you know, having it still in the NFA, but a
zero dollar tax, if it plays out the way you
the way you think it will, that's a critical and
absolutely critical step that well, as you just said, is
potentially a much bigger win than most people, including I
had had thought. Was that your idea? Where did that
(15:25):
come from?
Speaker 3 (15:27):
It was our idea within Silencer Shop. It was not
my idea personally.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
So it's a and I tell you what this is.
The zero dollar tax opens up two options that most
people don't realize. One is in the courts, which we
filed on July fourth, and I think we've got a
good shot with this lawsuit. The second thing is, every
time you pass any budget bill, you have to come
up with an offset. So if you're collecting ten billion
(15:53):
dollars less than taxes, you have to come up with
ten billion dollars more than you're going to collect somewhere else.
Now this tax has dropped it zero. It makes deregulation
through another bill a lot simpler because we no longer
get an offset. So it opens up two opportunities for
deregulation that we could get during you know, by the
end of Trump's term. Hopefully that's what we're shooting more.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Very very clever. All right, last last quick question.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
So one of the things that I did, thanks to
you guys, is I put my suppressors in a trust.
Do you if you win the lawsuit, would that mean
the need to have that kind of trust owning your
suppressors goes away?
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Oh? Yes, trust trust become not a thing again. Okay,
now though seriously I recommend to pretty much everybody put
your silencer in a trust. It makes more sense just
for possession. Right after we win this, Yeah, trust you
could trust go away.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
And folks, if you want to learn more about these
trusts and how easy and cheap they are, because I
know firsthand because I did this with silent answer Shop,
you can go to silencershop dot com. All right, one
of the last very quick questions for you, Dave, and
we're talking with Dave.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Mattheenie, who's founder and CEO of silencer Shop.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
It seems to me like you are in a very
admirable way working out of principle here to get this
stuff removed from NFA, because it seems to me, well,
it's a double edged sword. It seems to me that
doing this in a way could hurt your business because
(17:30):
people won't need a lot of paperwork that they need
now that you help them with. On the other hand,
if the two hundred dollars tax stamp, and just the
brain damage of all of it goes away. A lot
more people might buy a lot more suppressors, so you
could make more money that way. But from a business perspective,
give me just a few seconds on how you're thinking
about it.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
You know, if you look at the gun industry there
and we're just going off of Knicks checks, the FBI
check when you will buy a gun, there are two
million per month. If you look at the silencer industry,
there's last year there were seven hundred and fifty thousand,
not quite seven hundred and fifty thousand for the entire year.
The reality is there should be and I'm going to
(18:12):
make up a number here, there should be a silencer
sold every maybe two silencers sold every three guns. That
should be the ratio that we see. The silencer markets
should be dramatically bigger than it is. And the paperwork
and the registration are what actulutely kill the market. I mean,
it's the right thing to do to get silences out
of the NFA, but also this market can't grow without that.
(18:35):
We've reached a point where we need them out of
the NFA. We really do.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Dave Metheni is founder and CEO of Silencer Shop. I
am a repeat customer and just love how they make
it as easy as anybody can to deal with what
has been a very difficult process, and maybe between the
big beautiful Bill and Dave's new lawsuit against the federal government,
maybe it'll get much easier. You can learn more at
(19:00):
silencershop dot com.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Dave, thanks for being back on the show. I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Glad too.
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