July 24, 2025 • 19 mins
Hulk Hogan sadly passed away at the age of 71 today. News Nation's Kurt Bardella joined me to reflect on the life of The Hulkster.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Let's do something completely different. My next guest is a
dude who I've actually wanted to talk to for quite
some time, because, as you as listeners to this show, no,
I have over the course of the past year plus
become a dedicated watcher of News Nation, not least because
(00:20):
my good friend Leland Viddert is over a News Nation,
but my wife and I watch News Nation more than
any other cable news network now. And I see Kurt
Bardella there all the time, and Kurt seems like a
really interesting dude, and I wanted to talk to him
for quite some time, and I've heard him once in
a while mention wrestling, but I didn't know until just
(00:43):
an hour ago when I got an email from a
gal over there who emailed saying, well, if you need
someone to talk about Hulk Hogan and wrestling, Kurt's your guy.
He really knows this stuff. He's an expert, he's a
wrestling historian. And so I finally get Kurt Bartell on
the show, but to talk about wrestling. Maybe we'll get
to some politics too. Anyway, Kurt, it's really good to
(01:05):
have you, and I mean it, I've wanted to talk
to you for quite some time. So thanks for.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Doing this, Thank you so much for having me on.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
So tell tell us what you know and like why
you know it about wrestling, and then I want to
get into Hulk Hogan stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah, you know, I have been a lifelong fan of
professional wrestling, going back to when I was a kid,
you know, in the eighties, like so many of us,
obviously you know, you know no Hulk Hogan from that era.
And over time, I've had the opportunity to, you know,
spend a lot of time with the WWE world. I've
(01:44):
been to the last four or five WrestleManias. I have
been to so many Monday Night ras and smackdowns, and
have written about the impact that I believe that ww
has had on our culture, on our politics. And you know,
the only time Inquirer you know it is I think
I've always said, anyone who doesn't understand now Donald Trump happened,
(02:08):
forget about whether you like him or disliked him, but
anyone who just doesn't understand needs to go and watch
Monday Night Raw in person, and if you do that,
it will make more sense to you.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
So I'm curious how many times did you, or if
ever did you chat with Hulk Hogan, meet with Hulk Hogan,
or body slam Hulk Hogan.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
I certainly have never been body slammed by you know,
I was.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
I asked if you body slammed him, not if he
body slammed you.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
I would take either or frankly to be able to
brag about. You know. The last time I saw him
was the thirtieth anniversary of Monday Night Raw, which I
think they held in Philly in January. I want to
say twenty twenty four, which was I think one of
the last appearances he had, you know, in w W
e Land. You know, there's nothing like that moment when
(03:03):
his iconic I Am a real American theme song, it
is and you are immediately transported to you know, that
that six seven eight year old version of yourself and
the you know, saying your prayers and eating your vitamins, brother,
and what you're gotta do, and it is. There are
very few figures, I think, who can evoke that level
of nostalgia just by walking through a curtain and having
(03:28):
a theme song play.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
I think you're right, and I feel almost the same,
even though I'm not a wrestling fan, but every once
in a while, someone comes along who transcends a sport,
or maybe even bigger than transcending a sport, if there
could be something bigger is too, is to make the
sport appeal to an order or two orders of magnitude
(03:53):
more than it ever appealed before. And I wonder I'll
give you an example, because Kurt, I am president of
the Bad and Now Club, and I'm gonna give you
a fairly bad one. Right, But I think, for example,
that Caitlin Clark has made a lot more people interested
in the w n b A than ever were interested before, right,
and maybe even me a little bit, although I'm still
(04:15):
mostly not interested. But would you put Hulk Hogan in
that category as a guy who wasn't just a big
name in the sport, uh, but but brought it to
another level?
Speaker 2 (04:30):
That's absolutely true. There, there's just no doubt about that.
If you've never watched a single second of you know,
of WWEE or back in the day WCW, you still
know the name Hulk Hogan. And that's really a test
of it to the impact that he said, if there
is a mount rushmore sports entertainment, Pulk Hogan is the
(04:52):
very first name, the very first faith that that should
be on that monument. Uh Rustling today being the global
sensation that it is, hemp largest YouTube channel in the
world is WWE deals with Netflix all over, selling out
stadiums all around the world, events everywhere you can think of.
None of that happened if not for Hull Cogan. You
(05:13):
have to remember where we were culturally when he came
on the scene and exploded. The marriage between wrestling and
MTV is one of the most transformational things that ever happened.
Sports entertainment in music was called a rock and wrestling
right when MTV was launching, and it provided this larger
than life platform for for wrestling to become mainstream, to
become part of pop culture, which which which paved the
(05:38):
way for the very first WrestleMania that Hull k Coogan,
the very first WrestleMania, by the way, that had appearances
from Muhammad Ali as a special guests referee, that had
Lebarazi dancing with the rock guests in the middle of
the ring, that would lead to wrestling getting a prime
time spot on NBC back in the day when there
were only three channels, the broadcast channels all we had
(06:00):
and what SNL went on at summer Hiatus Saturday Night
made event headlined by Fulk Hogan. What was Beaming on
your TV? Hulk Hogan was the very first to end
up on Johnny Carson, the very first to be in
a feature film Rocky three, the very first to have
his own TV show on tnt IF under a paradise,
Dwayne the Rock Johnson doesn't exist the way that we
(06:21):
know him. If Hulk Hogan didn't pave the way.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
What do you think Hulk Hogan figured out that allowed
him to do that and be that.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
I think it was the power of charisma, storytelling, and
a bit of that superhero field. Hulk Hogan's really the
very first superhero of wrestling in the same way that
kids today idolizing the al Batman or Superman or iron
Man at Marvel DC Comic Hulk Hogan was that brought
to life and it was tangible in a way that
(06:54):
it isn't for film or TV because you could go
to an arena somewhere in the United States America, buy
a ticket and see him writ in front of you
the twenty four inch pythons bodies land me Andre the
Giant in front of the largest indoor crowd in the
history of mankind. At that time at the Pontiak Silverdome,
(07:15):
it was accessible superhero, which is something that was new.
We had never seen that before, and I think Hulk
was able to understand what's frankly the help of Vince
McMahon to have a bigger vision for wrestling. All those
people out there who I've seen it on social media
day are like all that fake stuff. It's like you're
missing the point. You are totally not getting It. Wasn't
(07:36):
it about whether it was scripture or not real or not.
It was something that would capture your imagination, and it
was bigger than anything that you could just imagine for yourself,
embodied in this superstar that just jumped off your TV
screen every Saturday morning. I mean, I know I was
one of those guys who grew up watching wrestling on
(07:58):
Saturday morning, and Cogan was the main attraction of that.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
We're talking with News Nation contributor Kurt Bardella. He usually
talks politics, but he's also a wrestling historian and expert.
I do want to talk a little politics with you,
but one more thing on wrestling we before we do
some of that. Do you think do you think that
does wrestling. Actually know, I got two things for you. First,
(08:23):
does wrestling have anybody now who is even close to
what Hulk Hogan has meant to that sport.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
I think the answer is yes, and that I think,
what if someone like obviously Dwayne the Rock Johnson comes
to mind, who I think is the biggest box office
draw in all of Hollywood at this point, putting out
billion dollar grossing films left and right. You know, he
is also while being an actor. You know, he's on
the board of directors of WWF TKO, his parent company,
(08:53):
and it has been a part of many storylines. I
think of John Cena, you know John Cena right now
in the final run of his career, his farewell tour,
playing the bad guy the heel for the first time,
which by the way, is a not to hold Cogan,
who had the single biggest eel turn in the history
of wrestling in the nineties with WCW forming the nWo.
I think of people like Tody Roads, Roman Reigns who
(09:15):
are also making that transition, who were both just cast
in the Street Fighter movie that that's going to be
coming out next year. You know, it's so different now
because we have this multi media machine in WWE that
is able to promote these characters and build them up
and get some exposure in ways that weren't available in
(09:37):
the eighties nineth That's what makes Hull Cogan, I think
the goat in that way because he did it when
there wasn't social media. He did it when there's no
such thing as going viral in five seconds and pulling
up on your cell phone. There was no cell phones right,
able to transcend his ecosystem into mainstream pop culture without
the tools of the twenty fest century.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Okay, last wrestling question for you, Kurt, and I want
to go back to something you mentioned a moment ago.
You said, you know, if you if you talk about
well it's scripted or it's fake, you're missing the point.
And it was interesting to hear you say that because
half an hour ago when I first started talking about this,
or an hour ago, I got an email from a
friend of mine who frequently goes to WrestleMania, and he
(10:17):
said I should go with him to WrestleMania next year.
And I said, man, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
I said I don't.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
I said I don't really care. I don't know wrestling.
And he said, you're missing the point. So please explain
to me, as someone who is pretty broadly a sports
fan but never got into wrestling, what the point is
that I'm missing and why I should go to WrestleMania.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
What WrestleMania is is the ultimate spectacle that excuses sports
and entertainment. There's a reason why every athlete known to
man is a WW fan. Why in the midst of
one of the greatest runs in NBA history, Tarre's Halliburton's
also hanging out you know, Monday Night Raw. There's a
reason why in the nineties event in between NBA Finals games,
(11:04):
Dennis Robin would show up WCW Monday nightro much to
the Bewilderman vs. Kachhil Jackson. As we learned in the
Last Dance documentary, it is unlike anything you will ever experience.
And yeah, it is storyline driven. You know, it is scripted,
but there is no other type of entertainment that allows
(11:26):
you to be literally up close and to have a
voice in it. The fans helped dictate the storyline just
as much as the writers do, and they have to
make decisions all the time on the fly based on
crowd reaction of whether something is working or not working
than anyone who thinks it's fit quote fake. I think
that that is a very narrow minded way to look
(11:49):
at it, because you look at these these athletes, and
they are athletes, and what they put their body through
and the toll and effect that it has on them.
I dare anyone who thinks wrestling is quote fake to
go into the ring and take a bump and see
what that actually looks and feels like, and you'll get
a real attitude adjustment about it. But I also think
that it's a reflection of our society. You look at
(12:11):
the storylines of professional wrestling over the years, and it
very much reflects what we are dealing with politically and
culturally at times. And again, there is no President Donald
Trump if not for professional wrestling. This is the guy
who hosted WrestleMania four and five Trimp Hotel Atlantic City,
headlined by Hull Covid. This is the guy who participated
in the billionaire storyline for WrestleMania twenty five, shaving distant
(12:33):
land head in the middle of the ring ness to
stone called Steve Austin. This is the guy who's so
much of his presentation as a candidate for president and
then President derives exactly from what you see in WWE
every single Monday and Friday night on TV. Wow love It.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
We're talking with Kirk Bardella News Nation contributor Kurt. I
want to do a few minutes of politics with you,
and for those who don't know Kurt, former Republican now Democrat.
If I could describe Kurt, I would describe him as
rational and moderate, not staking out you know, the mom
(13:13):
Donnie or AOC or whatever wing. And I always appreciate
your analysis even when I don't agree with you, although
we agree a fair bit because I'm kind of a
libertarian minded, unaffiliated voter myself. Just so you know where
I'm coming from, Kurt, So, I never cared very much
about the Epstein story. I did have some real concerns
(13:36):
about why the first time around he got that unbelievable
sweetheart deal that I don't think anybody else would have gotten,
and I do have questions about that. Mostly I haven't cared,
but the politics of it right now are really fascinating,
and I think particularly interesting to ask you a dude
who used to be a Republican now a Democrat. I
(13:57):
think it's super clever for Democrats to have figured out
that they should now be the ones pushing for the
release of the so called Epstein files, which might not
even really exist. Can you talk about how Democrats are
thinking about the Epstein situation?
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Well, I think that in a lot of ways, you know,
Republicans kind of set the stage for this by spending
so much oxygen talking about over the last couple of
years and creating this expectation within their own base that
once we get back into power, we're going to expose
the truth behind everything that happened in involve of Jeffrey Epstein,
(14:37):
and that when that didn't happen, they created this opening
for Democrats to look at the playing field there be like, yeah,
we never really cared about this and never really spent
a lot of time talking about this. You go back
a couple of years, you don't see Rachel Maddow pining
about this every night on her show on MSNBC. You
don't see AOC talking about it on the House floor. Ever,
this was really only a narrative that was taking shape
(14:58):
on the Republican mod the wing of the spectrum, and
so they kind of kept their powder dry back then
so that now they can kind of come in and
go well, I mean, we agree with you. Maga Land,
we agree with you. Charlie Kirk and Megan Kelly, we
agree with you. JD. Vance and Dan Bongino. This is
something that should come out like put up or shut up.
(15:20):
It's the classic case of expectations. Will I think poorly
mismanaged at the very least, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
I mean, look as I think the Magabase and not
so much Trump, because Trump never said he cared a
lot about this, and when he was asked, you know,
will you declassify this or whatever about Epstein, he was
always like, eh, I guess, but I don't really care
it was. It was really Bongino and Patel and Bondi
(15:45):
to a slightly lesser degree. But I feel like these
folks and and the mega base who has this weird
obsession with like elite pedophiles in basements of pizza restaurants.
There's a dog that caught the car right, and the
car is about to run them over, and Democrats have
(16:06):
figured out that this is the first thing that at
least I can think of where Trump has lost control
of the base and Democrats are just you know, they
see the wedge and they've grabbed the hammer and they're
just pounding the wedge further in right.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Oh, that's exactly what's happening, uh, to the point, and
they're doing it very effectively using the tools and instruments
of Congress, you know where. Like last night, the Oversight Committee,
which is again controlled by Republicans, they were they issued
us the poena for all of the Epstein uh documents,
information and all the all the all the investigational material. Uh.
(16:44):
And that's something that we're fund the Democrats teamed up
and did together.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
You know, you're seeing you know, odd political bestfellows here
of you know, people like Republican Tom Massey and Democrat
you know from California and Rocanna teaming up to try
to you know, get all this inform to light. You know,
I don't understand why at this point the administration wouldn't
just make everything as transparent as possible just to move
(17:09):
on with this, because it's clearly not going anywhere. It
has legs every day some new tidbit of information to
poppen up that that drives a story. I don't think
the specter of Donald Trump suing Rupert Murdock is going
to make the story go away anytime soon either. So
I don't know how this necessarily ends, but I think
that's the challenge of when you play in the sandbox
(17:32):
of conspiracy theory so often, eventually once for the couple
round to bite you in the button. That's kind of
what's happening right now.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Yeah, I agree with you completely, and I feel like
the Republicans are kind of in a no win situation
here right If the information doesn't come out, some kind
of significant information, the base will be pissed off and
then they won't show up in the next election cycle
or two and Republicans are going to get hurt real bad.
And if information does come out, my guess is that
(17:59):
it won't be enough information to satisfy the base, and
they'll end up in the same place and they'll just
keep saying, oh, there's more, and you're protecting the pedophiles
and whatever. And really Trump's been right trying to tell
the base to drop it, but they won't and they
think they're helping Trump, but they're not. I'll give you
the last seventeen seconds because I like prime numbers.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Well, I think that again, the challenge for Trump is
if you don't lift up to the expectation. Then they're
going to wonder, oh, are you just one of the
elites too, like we've been sold to Bill of Goods. Yes,
And I think that's the danger right now for Trump
is you've got to find a way to give them
something so that they still have a rationale to believe
in him. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
And I didn't mention on the show yet today, but
some one of the news yesterday was a judge, federal
judge in Florida refused to unseal grand jury information that
Paan Bondi had asked for. And yeah, this story is
not going away, and Democrats, very cleverly now are going
to be the ones to not let it go away.
Working with strange bedfellows. As Kurt mentioned, Kurt Bardella is
(19:01):
a News Nation contributor usually talks politics, but he's also
a wrestling historian and expert. That was a really fun conversation, Kurt.
Very glad to have you on the show for the
first time. Hope to have you back.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Wow. Likewise, I hope you have me back on to
That was a lot of fun
Speaker 1 (19:15):
All right, Thank you, Kurt.
Let's do something completely different. My next guest is a
dude who I've actually wanted to talk to for quite
some time, because, as you as listeners to this show, no,
I have over the course of the past year plus
become a dedicated watcher of News Nation, not least because
(00:20):
my good friend Leland Viddert is over a News Nation,
but my wife and I watch News Nation more than
any other cable news network now. And I see Kurt
Bardella there all the time, and Kurt seems like a
really interesting dude, and I wanted to talk to him
for quite some time, and I've heard him once in
a while mention wrestling, but I didn't know until just
(00:43):
an hour ago when I got an email from a
gal over there who emailed saying, well, if you need
someone to talk about Hulk Hogan and wrestling, Kurt's your guy.
He really knows this stuff. He's an expert, he's a
wrestling historian. And so I finally get Kurt Bartell on
the show, but to talk about wrestling. Maybe we'll get
to some politics too. Anyway, Kurt, it's really good to
(01:05):
have you, and I mean it, I've wanted to talk
to you for quite some time. So thanks for.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Doing this, Thank you so much for having me on.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
So tell tell us what you know and like why
you know it about wrestling, and then I want to
get into Hulk Hogan stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah, you know, I have been a lifelong fan of
professional wrestling, going back to when I was a kid,
you know, in the eighties, like so many of us,
obviously you know, you know no Hulk Hogan from that era.
And over time, I've had the opportunity to, you know,
spend a lot of time with the WWE world. I've
(01:44):
been to the last four or five WrestleManias. I have
been to so many Monday Night ras and smackdowns, and
have written about the impact that I believe that ww
has had on our culture, on our politics. And you know,
the only time Inquirer you know it is I think
I've always said, anyone who doesn't understand now Donald Trump happened,
(02:08):
forget about whether you like him or disliked him, but
anyone who just doesn't understand needs to go and watch
Monday Night Raw in person, and if you do that,
it will make more sense to you.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
So I'm curious how many times did you, or if
ever did you chat with Hulk Hogan, meet with Hulk Hogan,
or body slam Hulk Hogan.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
I certainly have never been body slammed by you know,
I was.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
I asked if you body slammed him, not if he
body slammed you.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
I would take either or frankly to be able to
brag about. You know. The last time I saw him
was the thirtieth anniversary of Monday Night Raw, which I
think they held in Philly in January. I want to
say twenty twenty four, which was I think one of
the last appearances he had, you know, in w W
e Land. You know, there's nothing like that moment when
(03:03):
his iconic I Am a real American theme song, it
is and you are immediately transported to you know, that
that six seven eight year old version of yourself and
the you know, saying your prayers and eating your vitamins, brother,
and what you're gotta do, and it is. There are
very few figures, I think, who can evoke that level
of nostalgia just by walking through a curtain and having
(03:28):
a theme song play.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
I think you're right, and I feel almost the same,
even though I'm not a wrestling fan, but every once
in a while, someone comes along who transcends a sport,
or maybe even bigger than transcending a sport, if there
could be something bigger is too, is to make the
sport appeal to an order or two orders of magnitude
(03:53):
more than it ever appealed before. And I wonder I'll
give you an example, because Kurt, I am president of
the Bad and Now Club, and I'm gonna give you
a fairly bad one. Right, But I think, for example,
that Caitlin Clark has made a lot more people interested
in the w n b A than ever were interested before, right,
and maybe even me a little bit, although I'm still
(04:15):
mostly not interested. But would you put Hulk Hogan in
that category as a guy who wasn't just a big
name in the sport, uh, but but brought it to
another level?
Speaker 2 (04:30):
That's absolutely true. There, there's just no doubt about that.
If you've never watched a single second of you know,
of WWEE or back in the day WCW, you still
know the name Hulk Hogan. And that's really a test
of it to the impact that he said, if there
is a mount rushmore sports entertainment, Pulk Hogan is the
(04:52):
very first name, the very first faith that that should
be on that monument. Uh Rustling today being the global
sensation that it is, hemp largest YouTube channel in the
world is WWE deals with Netflix all over, selling out
stadiums all around the world, events everywhere you can think of.
None of that happened if not for Hull Cogan. You
(05:13):
have to remember where we were culturally when he came
on the scene and exploded. The marriage between wrestling and
MTV is one of the most transformational things that ever happened.
Sports entertainment in music was called a rock and wrestling
right when MTV was launching, and it provided this larger
than life platform for for wrestling to become mainstream, to
become part of pop culture, which which which paved the
(05:38):
way for the very first WrestleMania that Hull k Coogan,
the very first WrestleMania, by the way, that had appearances
from Muhammad Ali as a special guests referee, that had
Lebarazi dancing with the rock guests in the middle of
the ring, that would lead to wrestling getting a prime
time spot on NBC back in the day when there
were only three channels, the broadcast channels all we had
(06:00):
and what SNL went on at summer Hiatus Saturday Night
made event headlined by Fulk Hogan. What was Beaming on
your TV? Hulk Hogan was the very first to end
up on Johnny Carson, the very first to be in
a feature film Rocky three, the very first to have
his own TV show on tnt IF under a paradise,
Dwayne the Rock Johnson doesn't exist the way that we
(06:21):
know him. If Hulk Hogan didn't pave the way.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
What do you think Hulk Hogan figured out that allowed
him to do that and be that.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
I think it was the power of charisma, storytelling, and
a bit of that superhero field. Hulk Hogan's really the
very first superhero of wrestling in the same way that
kids today idolizing the al Batman or Superman or iron
Man at Marvel DC Comic Hulk Hogan was that brought
to life and it was tangible in a way that
(06:54):
it isn't for film or TV because you could go
to an arena somewhere in the United States America, buy
a ticket and see him writ in front of you
the twenty four inch pythons bodies land me Andre the
Giant in front of the largest indoor crowd in the
history of mankind. At that time at the Pontiak Silverdome,
(07:15):
it was accessible superhero, which is something that was new.
We had never seen that before, and I think Hulk
was able to understand what's frankly the help of Vince
McMahon to have a bigger vision for wrestling. All those
people out there who I've seen it on social media
day are like all that fake stuff. It's like you're
missing the point. You are totally not getting It. Wasn't
(07:36):
it about whether it was scripture or not real or not.
It was something that would capture your imagination, and it
was bigger than anything that you could just imagine for yourself,
embodied in this superstar that just jumped off your TV
screen every Saturday morning. I mean, I know I was
one of those guys who grew up watching wrestling on
(07:58):
Saturday morning, and Cogan was the main attraction of that.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
We're talking with News Nation contributor Kurt Bardella. He usually
talks politics, but he's also a wrestling historian and expert.
I do want to talk a little politics with you,
but one more thing on wrestling we before we do
some of that. Do you think do you think that
does wrestling. Actually know, I got two things for you. First,
(08:23):
does wrestling have anybody now who is even close to
what Hulk Hogan has meant to that sport.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
I think the answer is yes, and that I think,
what if someone like obviously Dwayne the Rock Johnson comes
to mind, who I think is the biggest box office
draw in all of Hollywood at this point, putting out
billion dollar grossing films left and right. You know, he
is also while being an actor. You know, he's on
the board of directors of WWF TKO, his parent company,
(08:53):
and it has been a part of many storylines. I
think of John Cena, you know John Cena right now
in the final run of his career, his farewell tour,
playing the bad guy the heel for the first time,
which by the way, is a not to hold Cogan,
who had the single biggest eel turn in the history
of wrestling in the nineties with WCW forming the nWo.
I think of people like Tody Roads, Roman Reigns who
(09:15):
are also making that transition, who were both just cast
in the Street Fighter movie that that's going to be
coming out next year. You know, it's so different now
because we have this multi media machine in WWE that
is able to promote these characters and build them up
and get some exposure in ways that weren't available in
(09:37):
the eighties nineth That's what makes Hull Cogan, I think
the goat in that way because he did it when
there wasn't social media. He did it when there's no
such thing as going viral in five seconds and pulling
up on your cell phone. There was no cell phones right,
able to transcend his ecosystem into mainstream pop culture without
the tools of the twenty fest century.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Okay, last wrestling question for you, Kurt, and I want
to go back to something you mentioned a moment ago.
You said, you know, if you if you talk about
well it's scripted or it's fake, you're missing the point.
And it was interesting to hear you say that because
half an hour ago when I first started talking about this,
or an hour ago, I got an email from a
friend of mine who frequently goes to WrestleMania, and he
(10:17):
said I should go with him to WrestleMania next year.
And I said, man, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
I said I don't.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
I said I don't really care. I don't know wrestling.
And he said, you're missing the point. So please explain
to me, as someone who is pretty broadly a sports
fan but never got into wrestling, what the point is
that I'm missing and why I should go to WrestleMania.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
What WrestleMania is is the ultimate spectacle that excuses sports
and entertainment. There's a reason why every athlete known to
man is a WW fan. Why in the midst of
one of the greatest runs in NBA history, Tarre's Halliburton's
also hanging out you know, Monday Night Raw. There's a
reason why in the nineties event in between NBA Finals games,
(11:04):
Dennis Robin would show up WCW Monday nightro much to
the Bewilderman vs. Kachhil Jackson. As we learned in the
Last Dance documentary, it is unlike anything you will ever experience.
And yeah, it is storyline driven. You know, it is scripted,
but there is no other type of entertainment that allows
(11:26):
you to be literally up close and to have a
voice in it. The fans helped dictate the storyline just
as much as the writers do, and they have to
make decisions all the time on the fly based on
crowd reaction of whether something is working or not working
than anyone who thinks it's fit quote fake. I think
that that is a very narrow minded way to look
(11:49):
at it, because you look at these these athletes, and
they are athletes, and what they put their body through
and the toll and effect that it has on them.
I dare anyone who thinks wrestling is quote fake to
go into the ring and take a bump and see
what that actually looks and feels like, and you'll get
a real attitude adjustment about it. But I also think
that it's a reflection of our society. You look at
(12:11):
the storylines of professional wrestling over the years, and it
very much reflects what we are dealing with politically and
culturally at times. And again, there is no President Donald
Trump if not for professional wrestling. This is the guy
who hosted WrestleMania four and five Trimp Hotel Atlantic City,
headlined by Hull Covid. This is the guy who participated
in the billionaire storyline for WrestleMania twenty five, shaving distant
(12:33):
land head in the middle of the ring ness to
stone called Steve Austin. This is the guy who's so
much of his presentation as a candidate for president and
then President derives exactly from what you see in WWE
every single Monday and Friday night on TV. Wow love It.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
We're talking with Kirk Bardella News Nation contributor Kurt. I
want to do a few minutes of politics with you,
and for those who don't know Kurt, former Republican now Democrat.
If I could describe Kurt, I would describe him as
rational and moderate, not staking out you know, the mom
(13:13):
Donnie or AOC or whatever wing. And I always appreciate
your analysis even when I don't agree with you, although
we agree a fair bit because I'm kind of a
libertarian minded, unaffiliated voter myself. Just so you know where
I'm coming from, Kurt, So, I never cared very much
about the Epstein story. I did have some real concerns
(13:36):
about why the first time around he got that unbelievable
sweetheart deal that I don't think anybody else would have gotten,
and I do have questions about that. Mostly I haven't cared,
but the politics of it right now are really fascinating,
and I think particularly interesting to ask you a dude
who used to be a Republican now a Democrat. I
(13:57):
think it's super clever for Democrats to have figured out
that they should now be the ones pushing for the
release of the so called Epstein files, which might not
even really exist. Can you talk about how Democrats are
thinking about the Epstein situation?
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Well, I think that in a lot of ways, you know,
Republicans kind of set the stage for this by spending
so much oxygen talking about over the last couple of
years and creating this expectation within their own base that
once we get back into power, we're going to expose
the truth behind everything that happened in involve of Jeffrey Epstein,
(14:37):
and that when that didn't happen, they created this opening
for Democrats to look at the playing field there be like, yeah,
we never really cared about this and never really spent
a lot of time talking about this. You go back
a couple of years, you don't see Rachel Maddow pining
about this every night on her show on MSNBC. You
don't see AOC talking about it on the House floor. Ever,
this was really only a narrative that was taking shape
(14:58):
on the Republican mod the wing of the spectrum, and
so they kind of kept their powder dry back then
so that now they can kind of come in and
go well, I mean, we agree with you. Maga Land,
we agree with you. Charlie Kirk and Megan Kelly, we
agree with you. JD. Vance and Dan Bongino. This is
something that should come out like put up or shut up.
(15:20):
It's the classic case of expectations. Will I think poorly
mismanaged at the very least, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
I mean, look as I think the Magabase and not
so much Trump, because Trump never said he cared a
lot about this, and when he was asked, you know,
will you declassify this or whatever about Epstein, he was
always like, eh, I guess, but I don't really care
it was. It was really Bongino and Patel and Bondi
(15:45):
to a slightly lesser degree. But I feel like these
folks and and the mega base who has this weird
obsession with like elite pedophiles in basements of pizza restaurants.
There's a dog that caught the car right, and the
car is about to run them over, and Democrats have
(16:06):
figured out that this is the first thing that at
least I can think of where Trump has lost control
of the base and Democrats are just you know, they
see the wedge and they've grabbed the hammer and they're
just pounding the wedge further in right.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Oh, that's exactly what's happening, uh, to the point, and
they're doing it very effectively using the tools and instruments
of Congress, you know where. Like last night, the Oversight Committee,
which is again controlled by Republicans, they were they issued
us the poena for all of the Epstein uh documents,
information and all the all the all the investigational material. Uh.
(16:44):
And that's something that we're fund the Democrats teamed up
and did together.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
You know, you're seeing you know, odd political bestfellows here
of you know, people like Republican Tom Massey and Democrat
you know from California and Rocanna teaming up to try
to you know, get all this inform to light. You know,
I don't understand why at this point the administration wouldn't
just make everything as transparent as possible just to move
(17:09):
on with this, because it's clearly not going anywhere. It
has legs every day some new tidbit of information to
poppen up that that drives a story. I don't think
the specter of Donald Trump suing Rupert Murdock is going
to make the story go away anytime soon either. So
I don't know how this necessarily ends, but I think
that's the challenge of when you play in the sandbox
(17:32):
of conspiracy theory so often, eventually once for the couple
round to bite you in the button. That's kind of
what's happening right now.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Yeah, I agree with you completely, and I feel like
the Republicans are kind of in a no win situation
here right If the information doesn't come out, some kind
of significant information, the base will be pissed off and
then they won't show up in the next election cycle
or two and Republicans are going to get hurt real bad.
And if information does come out, my guess is that
(17:59):
it won't be enough information to satisfy the base, and
they'll end up in the same place and they'll just
keep saying, oh, there's more, and you're protecting the pedophiles
and whatever. And really Trump's been right trying to tell
the base to drop it, but they won't and they
think they're helping Trump, but they're not. I'll give you
the last seventeen seconds because I like prime numbers.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Well, I think that again, the challenge for Trump is
if you don't lift up to the expectation. Then they're
going to wonder, oh, are you just one of the
elites too, like we've been sold to Bill of Goods. Yes,
And I think that's the danger right now for Trump
is you've got to find a way to give them
something so that they still have a rationale to believe
in him. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
And I didn't mention on the show yet today, but
some one of the news yesterday was a judge, federal
judge in Florida refused to unseal grand jury information that
Paan Bondi had asked for. And yeah, this story is
not going away, and Democrats, very cleverly now are going
to be the ones to not let it go away.
Working with strange bedfellows. As Kurt mentioned, Kurt Bardella is
(19:01):
a News Nation contributor usually talks politics, but he's also
a wrestling historian and expert. That was a really fun conversation, Kurt.
Very glad to have you on the show for the
first time. Hope to have you back.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Wow. Likewise, I hope you have me back on to
That was a lot of fun
Speaker 1 (19:15):
All right, Thank you, Kurt.
The Ross Kaminsky Show News
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.