Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
My special guest is Patrick Simmons. He is VP of
the National Right to Work Foundation NRTW dot org is
the website, and we're going to spend just a few
minutes talking about the National Right to Work Legal Defense
Foundation helping Colorado Kingsoopers workers once again sue the local
(00:22):
union UFCW Local seven. Patrick, Welcome to Kowa.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
It's good to see you and tell us what we
need to know. Yeah, thanks for having me Ross.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Yeah, this is unfortunately a repeat offender. Local seven out there.
People obviously know King Soopers big chain. They had a
strike at the beginning of this year. They were out
for a week, but workers cannot be required to join
a union boss ordered strike. And the two workers who
we filed this case for they decided it wasn't for them.
(00:52):
It was not the right decision. They wanted to keep
working and exercise their right under federal law, which they
have to do that they resigned. They use registered mail
so the union couldn't claim, oh, it got lost in
the mail, and then they went back to work after that.
It's all very clear by the book. And yet despite that,
the union sent them letters saying hey as members, which
(01:13):
they weren't because they had resigned their membership.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
They were going to be fined.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
They were told they got to show up to a
kangaroo internal union court and they were going to determine
them guilty and try and collect hundreds of dollars for
them in violation of federal law. So we filed these
these unfair labor practice practice charges. It's something we did
back after the twenty twenty two strike.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
There was a big strike.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
They were out for a lot longer that time, and
we assisted a number of workers then in challenging these
illegal fines as well.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
What was the result the first time, Yeah, the.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Union back down. They backed down pretty quickly on the fines.
They settled not only charges that we filed for King
Supers workers, but a number of other workers filed their
own charges, and the union settle all the settlement. Basically,
that says the National Labor Relations Board investigates, they find
that there's likely been a violation, and they give the
(02:08):
union the opportunity to either settle or be prosecuted. The
union back down that time. We hope that's gonna happen
here as well. But obviously there's a bigger problem there
because they don't respect the rights of the workers they
claim to represent.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Can in these settlements, can the union be required to
pay some kind of damages to your clients?
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Well, unfortunately, under under federal labor law, they're pretty limited.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
It's sort of a make whole remedy.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
So if they did get collect fines illegally.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
They would have to give that back.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
I mean, we certainly have a number of cases where
unions are illegally taking dues from workers, and in those
cases we see refunds. In something like this, it's more
about notifying everyone in the bargaining unit, so ten thousand
or so workers in a case like this, that they
have these rights that the union cannot find them if
they choose to be a non member, and that sort
(03:06):
of thing. I think there was even mandatory training by
the NLRB the last time. Obviously that training didn't do
a whole lot of good because they're back at it,
violating the law again. But but yeah, this is unfortunately
one of the problems of the current federal labor law
is that union bosses violate the law and really all
(03:26):
they have to do is kind of give back what
they shouldn't have taken, instead of, you know, having a
real punishment that make sure that maybe.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
They won't do it again. Right.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
I mean, my thinking as you're saying all that is,
there's very little disincentive for the union to keep trying
to intimidate people.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
I mean, it's you.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Know, the fact that they might have to send a
letter to everybody saying, oh, we can't do this to you.
That doesn't seem like it's going to scare them too much.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
No, it's a big problem.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
And this is why you know, workers should not be
forced under union boss so called representation. They opposed to
with it should be voluntary. Do should be voluntary. But
unfortunately we had this one size fits all, and then
a state like Colorado without right to work, they're forced
to pay dues or be fired to the very union
bosses who violate their rights under federal law.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
I mean, we have a very strange state here, right,
So we're not right to work, but we're not all
the way the other way either. So it's easy to
unionize a workplace, but it's not easy to require everybody
to be a member of the union in order to work.
It's this sort of weird middle ground. We have something
(04:35):
called the Labor Peace Act that the Democrats in the
state legislature tried to torpedo last year to just make
us as bad as all the other leftist states, and
the governor either vit I forget whether he vetoed it
or threatened to veto it, but either way, it didn't
become law. And I'm a little bit scared that our
next governor, who will almost certainly be a Democrat, will
go ahead and agree to that thing, and then this
(04:57):
state will be in a much worse situation.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Yeah, I mean, obviously full right to work is really
what's gonna protect workers, but yeah, they do have this
system where they have another additional vote required before the
union bosses can enter into a forced dues clause in
the contract that got veto the attempt to repeal that
this time in part because I think Colorado, look, they
don't get the attractiveness to businesses if the full right
(05:23):
to work states do. But at least they get to
set themselves apart a little bit from the Californias, New
York's and Illinois of the country. But if that goes
away completely, that's going to be an even worse step,
and certainly that would be a move in the wrong direction.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Patrick Simmons is vice president of the National Right to
Work Foundation NRTW dot org the Legal Defense Foundation. Part
of the organization is helping a couple of King Soopers
workers sue the union that tried illegally to find them
when they decided they wanted to work rather than strike. Patrick,
thanks for spending some time with us.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Very interesting and we'll stay in time. Much on this story. Excellent.
Glad to join you. Ross
My special guest is Patrick Simmons. He is VP of
the National Right to Work Foundation NRTW dot org is
the website, and we're going to spend just a few
minutes talking about the National Right to Work Legal Defense
Foundation helping Colorado Kingsoopers workers once again sue the local
(00:22):
union UFCW Local seven. Patrick, Welcome to Kowa.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
It's good to see you and tell us what we
need to know. Yeah, thanks for having me Ross.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Yeah, this is unfortunately a repeat offender. Local seven out there.
People obviously know King Soopers big chain. They had a
strike at the beginning of this year. They were out
for a week, but workers cannot be required to join
a union boss ordered strike. And the two workers who
we filed this case for they decided it wasn't for them.
(00:52):
It was not the right decision. They wanted to keep
working and exercise their right under federal law, which they
have to do that they resigned. They use registered mail
so the union couldn't claim, oh, it got lost in
the mail, and then they went back to work after that.
It's all very clear by the book. And yet despite that,
the union sent them letters saying hey as members, which
(01:13):
they weren't because they had resigned their membership.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
They were going to be fined.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
They were told they got to show up to a
kangaroo internal union court and they were going to determine
them guilty and try and collect hundreds of dollars for
them in violation of federal law. So we filed these
these unfair labor practice practice charges. It's something we did
back after the twenty twenty two strike.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
There was a big strike.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
They were out for a lot longer that time, and
we assisted a number of workers then in challenging these
illegal fines as well.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
What was the result the first time, Yeah, the.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Union back down. They backed down pretty quickly on the fines.
They settled not only charges that we filed for King
Supers workers, but a number of other workers filed their
own charges, and the union settle all the settlement. Basically,
that says the National Labor Relations Board investigates, they find
that there's likely been a violation, and they give the
(02:08):
union the opportunity to either settle or be prosecuted. The
union back down that time. We hope that's gonna happen
here as well. But obviously there's a bigger problem there
because they don't respect the rights of the workers they
claim to represent.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Can in these settlements, can the union be required to
pay some kind of damages to your clients?
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Well, unfortunately, under under federal labor law, they're pretty limited.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
It's sort of a make whole remedy.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
So if they did get collect fines illegally.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
They would have to give that back.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
I mean, we certainly have a number of cases where
unions are illegally taking dues from workers, and in those
cases we see refunds. In something like this, it's more
about notifying everyone in the bargaining unit, so ten thousand
or so workers in a case like this, that they
have these rights that the union cannot find them if
they choose to be a non member, and that sort
(03:06):
of thing. I think there was even mandatory training by
the NLRB the last time. Obviously that training didn't do
a whole lot of good because they're back at it,
violating the law again. But but yeah, this is unfortunately
one of the problems of the current federal labor law
is that union bosses violate the law and really all
(03:26):
they have to do is kind of give back what
they shouldn't have taken, instead of, you know, having a
real punishment that make sure that maybe.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
They won't do it again. Right.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
I mean, my thinking as you're saying all that is,
there's very little disincentive for the union to keep trying
to intimidate people.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
I mean, it's you.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Know, the fact that they might have to send a
letter to everybody saying, oh, we can't do this to you.
That doesn't seem like it's going to scare them too much.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
No, it's a big problem.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
And this is why you know, workers should not be
forced under union boss so called representation. They opposed to
with it should be voluntary. Do should be voluntary. But
unfortunately we had this one size fits all, and then
a state like Colorado without right to work, they're forced
to pay dues or be fired to the very union
bosses who violate their rights under federal law.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
I mean, we have a very strange state here, right,
So we're not right to work, but we're not all
the way the other way either. So it's easy to
unionize a workplace, but it's not easy to require everybody
to be a member of the union in order to work.
It's this sort of weird middle ground. We have something
(04:35):
called the Labor Peace Act that the Democrats in the
state legislature tried to torpedo last year to just make
us as bad as all the other leftist states, and
the governor either vit I forget whether he vetoed it
or threatened to veto it, but either way, it didn't
become law. And I'm a little bit scared that our
next governor, who will almost certainly be a Democrat, will
go ahead and agree to that thing, and then this
(04:57):
state will be in a much worse situation.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Yeah, I mean, obviously full right to work is really
what's gonna protect workers, but yeah, they do have this
system where they have another additional vote required before the
union bosses can enter into a forced dues clause in
the contract that got veto the attempt to repeal that
this time in part because I think Colorado, look, they
don't get the attractiveness to businesses if the full right
(05:23):
to work states do. But at least they get to
set themselves apart a little bit from the Californias, New
York's and Illinois of the country. But if that goes
away completely, that's going to be an even worse step,
and certainly that would be a move in the wrong direction.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Patrick Simmons is vice president of the National Right to
Work Foundation NRTW dot org the Legal Defense Foundation. Part
of the organization is helping a couple of King Soopers
workers sue the union that tried illegally to find them
when they decided they wanted to work rather than strike. Patrick,
thanks for spending some time with us.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Very interesting and we'll stay in time. Much on this story. Excellent.
Glad to join you. Ross
The Ross Kaminsky Show News
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