Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, let's let's give this a try. We'll see
if all is working according to plan. If it is
working according to plan, then Senator Michael Bennet can hear
me right now, and he can see me as well,
although he and I can see each other, and you
guys only get the only get the audio.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Hello, senator, can you hear me?
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Hello, Ross, I can hear you perfectly. Can you hear me?
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Yeah, that audio is fantastic. Thanks so much for doing this.
Speaker 4 (00:21):
I appreciate it, fantastic. I'm happy to do it. Thanks
for giving me a chance to be on.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Of course, the last time I saw you, which is
one of the only times I met you in person,
was actually in Boulder the Sunday after that attack up there,
and you were standing with Jony Goose and I came
and said hi, and you had no idea who I was,
which is fine, but I was. I was very glad
to see you at that event, as I was to
see so many others.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
I'm glad you were there too, and it was a horrible,
horrible attack.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
I want to talk with you a little bit about
the mood in America right now, and and how folks
talk or don't talk with each other, and I actually
want to start by thanking you for something. I went
on to chat GPT and I asked, it is there
any evidence that Senator Michael Bennett has ever called Trump
(01:17):
or Republicans nazi or fascist? And chat GPT said no,
And I'm not really surprised by that, knowing a little
bit about your you know, about your mom's side of
the family.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I'm Jewish also, and.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
I just wanted to thank you for, you know, having
chat GPT answer no to that question.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Well, I appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
I mean, I think the state of our public discourse
is shameful.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
It's an embarrassment, and it.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
Has almost nothing to do with the needs of the
American people.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Or their kids or our grandkids. And if we don't.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
Change it, we're not going to be able to deliver them.
And I think when I think, let me just give
you an example. Ross two weeks ago, we learned in
America that our reading scores is a nation are now
lower than they were thirty two years ago. Try remember
the last time you heard a host on Fox mentioned that,
(02:19):
or a host on MSNBC or CNN mentioned that. When
there was a politician in Washington who mentioned that we
have a healthcare system that costs twice as much as
any healthcare system in the industrialized world, and we're dying
six years younger than people in other industrialized countries.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Around the world.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
When was the last time you heard any of these
so called reporters on the cable television stations talk about that,
or a national politician talk about that. We've got an
economy where the American dream is now out of reach
for most Americans. And I think that's at the heart
of that's at the heart of why our politics.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Is as busted as it is.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
But that's not the same thing as talking about why
our debate is as busted as it is. And I
think that is driven by the poison of social media
and the poison of these algorithms that are driving us
into these divided camps, and we have to overcome it.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
And I didn't mention this.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
I think most my listeners, my listeners know this already,
but I should state it explicitly. Senator Bennett is seeking
the Democratic nomination to be governor of Colorado, So I
just want to make sure we're all clear on that.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
All right, So you.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Talked about social media, and that's something I have on
my very my short list of things I want to
talk with you about. So I'm a parent and I
see all this stuff, and I do think that while
there are a lot of true, wonderful benefits of social media,
in many ways it's injecting poison into our society right now.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
I'm not sure what a great answer to that is.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
And I'll note just as a side thing, and maybe
we'll come back to it.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Because you gave a rather.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Impassionate speech on the Senate floor about the shooting at
Evergreen High School that the shooter at Evergreen High School
appears to have his brain appears that his brain was
poisoned on social media. We can maybe come back to Evergreen.
But that's an example. My question for you is is.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
There a solution or is the solution just good parenting.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Well let me say this first. Ross.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
You may not remember this, but before I was in
the Senate, I was the superintendent of the Denver Public Schools.
We led a reform effort at the Denver Public Schools
that actually resulted in some of the certainly in the
greatest gains in student achievement of any district.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
In Colorado at that time, one.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Of the greatest gains, if not the greatest gains across
the country. One of the things when I was superintendent
that we never did was have a conversation about the
mental health epidemic that was ripping through our kids, because
we weren't having a mental health epidemic ripping through our kids.
Fifteen years later, we are, and it's a result of
(05:07):
COVID and social media and the economic strains that families
are phasing. By the way, it's the result of the
ridiculous political conversation that we as adults are having that
is not modeling decent behavior for our kids and decent
behavior for our grandkids.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
You said, what should we do about it?
Speaker 4 (05:26):
Obviously, parenting is important part of it.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
What we do is families are important part of it.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
But I'll tell you families, in some ways there's a
limit even what they can do. You know, anybody who
has a kid know how hard it is to get
the phone out of their hands. If you meet, as
I have with child adolescent psychologists, they will tell you
they don't even know what to do with their own kids.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
And they're trained to deal with these things. So you know,
I think it is.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
Obviously parenting needs to be part of it. Obviously kids
need to be part of it too. There's no pressure
that's greater, you know, if you can turn it to
a force for good. There's no pressure in America that's
stronger than pure pressure among teenagers too for the good,
like not just for the bad. But it's also true
(06:17):
ross that we have never had. There is no one
in America who's ever had a negotiation with Mark Zuckerberg
about our privacy, our data, our economics. These guys have
just taken from us, and they are drilling for oil
in our kids' bedrooms. I believe a solution to that
would be to have an agency in Washington whose sole
(06:39):
job was to was to think about, you know, the
damage these addictive algorithms are doing to our kids, the
fact that the Russians and the Chinese and the Iranians
are invading our platforms, the fact that we've got massive
antitrust violations with these huge, huge companies, but we haven't
been able to get that done here because this place
(07:01):
is so broken. So I think the answer is all
the above.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
It's my view, so.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
I share your I guess I'll call it a combination
of anger and frustration with these social media companies and
the harms doing the children.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
One of the things I worried about.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
I worry about And you know, I'm I'm a lower
case L libertarian. I'm a small government guy. My touchdown
is the Constitution. I don't cheer for one party or
the other. But what I worry about when we start
talking about agencies is will they go too far? Will
they become dominated by politics? Will they end up? And
(07:40):
I realized broadcast media is different from social media and
lives under different rules. But you look at this nonsense like,
I'm not a Jimmy Kimmel fan, and the stuff that
he said that kind of got him fired was really
bad stuff.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
But for the FCC to.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Jump in and involve themselves in that conversation was outrageous
and purely political, and it seemed to me like pandering
to Donald Trump. And I really hate it. And I
like Brendan Carr, but I did not like that at all.
And how do we prevent an agency such as the
type that you suggest might manage social media from falling
into these same traps?
Speaker 4 (08:16):
Totally, I mean, a completely legitimate concern, And today I
won't go through the safeguards that I put in that
legislation to deal with that. But the reason they're in
there is because that's a completely legitimate concern. I mean,
there's concerns about overreach, concerns about underreach, concerns about incumbent
industries dominating you know, a regulatory agency. Those are all
(08:40):
massive concerns, and it demonstrates, by the way, how our
system needs to be much more nimble, much more flexible.
But one of the reasons why I don't think we
can leave this decision to Congress is that Congress will
never deal with it effectively because maybe we'll deal with privacy,
but we'll never deal with the anti trust problem. Maybe,
(09:01):
you know, we won't deal with the Russia or Iran problem.
And our predecessors, like guys like Teddy Roosevelt, who was
a Republican, you know, had this sense in their day
to be able to establish agencies that could deal with
the demands of their moment. You know, in that instance,
(09:24):
it was the trust that he was having to bust.
In our moment, it's we're living I think ross in
a new gilded age, and I think we have to
push back against some of these guys, But you're right,
those cautions are really important.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Let me let me stop there.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
So let's see. How many years have you been in
the Senate now?
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Sixteen?
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Wow, gosh, that went fast. I don't know if it
went fast for you, but.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
Tell me about it. My daughters were nine, seven and
four when I started. Oh my gosh, twenty six, twenty six, warrens.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Okay, and twenty So how has the quality of conversation
between you and Republican senators changed during that time? And
to the and do you think that what seems to
me from the cheap seats here well about America generally,
like I think the quality of political conversation isn't very good.
(10:20):
I often hear that senators are more congenial, But how
has that changed? And to the extent that you use
the word modeling, to the extent that the Senate is
not modeling great behavior right now?
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Or Congress generally, do you think that is?
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Do you think that is Congress following the culture or
leading the culture.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
I think they're following the cable news culture. I think
they're following the social media culture. And it's poison. It's poison.
And that doesn't mean it's all bad, but in terms
of the way it's intersecting with our politics, it's terrible.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
I have, you know, had long standing.
Speaker 4 (10:59):
Relationships with the Republicans, and it wasn't just in the
old days.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
I mean, Mitch.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
McConnell and I have worked closely together to get the
Ukraine aid over the finish line. It wouldn't have happened
without I think our work together. But I think the
quality of the discussion has deteriorated is a lot, a lot,
but it's also deteriorated all over America. I mean, Ross,
I'm really worried about this. You mentioned the founders, you know,
(11:26):
I think one of the principles of our founding was
that in a free society, where you had freedom of
the press, where you had free speech, that unlike in
a totalitarian society, you would have the chance to have disagreements.
You know, that you could have a point of view
(11:46):
about something, and I can have a.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Point of view. That we wouldn't have.
Speaker 4 (11:49):
A monopoly wisdom, that we would have conflict in a
free society, and out of that conflict we would generate
more imaginative, more thoughtful, more durable than any king or
tiredt could come.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Up with on their own.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
That's the whole reason to be in a democracy is
to be able to make those better decisions.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
We have lost that fundamentally.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
Everybody thinks they have a monopoly on wisdom because that's
what the guys on the cable television claim. Everybody says
they have a monopoly on wisdom because that's what the
guys on social media claim. The reality and the reality
is not only are we divided, we're not even focusing
on this stuff that kids and our grandkids need us.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
To focus on.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
Do we have a functional healthcare system? Do we have
a functionial education system? Do we have a capitalist economy
in our society that's actually driving wages up for everybody,
not just the people at the very top. Where is
that being debated or discussed in America today?
Speaker 1 (12:49):
I couldn't agree with you more and you and I,
I am sure, have very different policy solutions to things,
but we probably have a list of vend that overlaps
massively when talking about well what are the problems?
Speaker 2 (13:05):
And one that you.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Didn't mention that I always think about in terms of
my children is the national Dad. It scares the but
Jesus out of me. Now we're low on time here,
so I just want to switch to a couple of
state things since you are running for governor, and just
a couple of things I wanted to ask you about.
So one, you, I'm sure will be making some effort
(13:27):
to get votes from rural Colorado and not just urban
and suburban Colorado. And I will say I have a
lot of rural listeners, and a lot of these folks
feel not just ignored but aggrieved by the current governor, who,
by the way, is a friend of mine. But you
know this stuff like stop eating meat and the wolf
free introduction and all this. What are your thoughts and
(13:51):
plans for how to at least try to appeal to
rural Colorado so that rural people don't feel like it's
just a govern of Denver.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
First of all, we rise and fall together. Everybody in
the state does. And I have spent a huge amount
of my time as a Senator in rural Colorado, not
sight seeing, but working with local people, working with county commissioners,
working with mayors, working with the CEOs of hospitals, working
with farmers and ranchers. The first day I walked into
the Senate, I asked to be put on the Agriculture Committee,
(14:26):
not because I know anything about agriculture.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
I didn't know anything about agriculture.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
And all these years later, that's the one committee that
I'm still on because it's so important to Colorado and
has put me into rural Colorado.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
I've spent huge amounts of time there when I've been in.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
The Senate, even though there are many counties that no
matter what I do, I'll never get more than twenty
or thirty percent of the vote. Partly because I've been
doing the work of protecting and defending and enhancing Colorado's
agricultural economy and our rural economy, and defending, by the way,
(15:04):
rural healthcare is part of that, and trying to help
diversify our economy. But also because I believe that's a
critically important thing we should expect out of our elected officials.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Whether they vote for us or not.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
They need to be there in order to have the
conversation I was talking about earlier. I do not get
up in the morning ross thinking I have a monopoly
on wisdom.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
I don't get up in the morning thinking that people
aren't going to disagree with me. I actually think people
will disagree with me, and out of that will end
up with a better set of ideas on the wolves.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
I couldn't agree with you more.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
I think it should be implemented the way it was negotiated.
There are a lot of people that spend a lot
of time negotiating that wil free introduction, and I think
that we could do a much better job of implementing it.
I've spent a bunch of time in the last month
with ranchers across the state in a meeting outside a steamboat,
(15:59):
and a meeting and in Carbondale to make sure that
I can hear from them directly about the way this
is affecting them. And you know, there's a deep concern
among them that the front that they are politicians and
why in Denver that are trying to push ranching off
of the private lands. In Colorado, there's a deep concern
(16:20):
that we're trying to use a public lands policy or
you know, or or the wolf policy to somehow end
ranching in Colorado, and we need to address that.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
All right, last very quick thing. I'm already late, but
I got to ask you this question. I was very
interested to see you. And then maybe yesterday did Jared
Poulis as well take a public position against the new BUCkies.
Tell us, just briefly, just very briefly, why are you
against it and why did you decide to come out
(16:53):
publicly like that.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
I'll tell you why.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
I'll tell you why, because that was going to be
located on one of the most icon places in Colorado.
He's going to be located on the southwestern corner of
Monument Hill. As if you're coming from the north as
you come over Monument Hill to see beautiful Pike's Peak,
to see the Greenland Ranch, which is one of the
(17:17):
longest standing ranches cattle ranches in Colorado. That is part
of an effort that a bipartisan group of Colorado's invested
more than one hundred and thirty million dollars to protect
and defend on both sides of I twenty five. Right there,
I think it's the last place in Colorado you should
(17:40):
put a buckets and it'd be like putting it on
top of Pike's Peak in my view. So there are
probably lots of other places it should go, but I
think having it go right there on one of the
most iconic pieces of land and in Colorado would be
a huge mistake, and our kids and our grandkids would
(18:03):
never forgive us for it, which is why I raised it.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Senator Michael Bennett is seeking the Democratic nomination to be
the next governor of Colorado. Grateful to have you on
the show. Hopefully I will disagree with you more next time,
but we will always do so politely.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Let me come back. I'd love to come back.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
All right, we'll do it. Maybe when you're in town.
Sometimes you can come to the studio in the Denver
Tech Center.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Let's do it. I'm sorry these mugs delayed us here.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
No no, oh, yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Yeah, but your staff has been fabulous, absolutely virus so
thank them for me.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Thank you, Michael, I appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
All right, take care, Thanks everybody, have a good weekend
Speaker 2 (18:39):
All right, you too,
All right, let's let's give this a try. We'll see
if all is working according to plan. If it is
working according to plan, then Senator Michael Bennet can hear
me right now, and he can see me as well,
although he and I can see each other, and you
guys only get the only get the audio.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Hello, senator, can you hear me?
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Hello, Ross, I can hear you perfectly. Can you hear me?
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Yeah, that audio is fantastic. Thanks so much for doing this.
Speaker 4 (00:21):
I appreciate it, fantastic. I'm happy to do it. Thanks
for giving me a chance to be on.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Of course, the last time I saw you, which is
one of the only times I met you in person,
was actually in Boulder the Sunday after that attack up there,
and you were standing with Jony Goose and I came
and said hi, and you had no idea who I was,
which is fine, but I was. I was very glad
to see you at that event, as I was to
see so many others.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
I'm glad you were there too, and it was a horrible,
horrible attack.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
I want to talk with you a little bit about
the mood in America right now, and and how folks
talk or don't talk with each other, and I actually
want to start by thanking you for something. I went
on to chat GPT and I asked, it is there
any evidence that Senator Michael Bennett has ever called Trump
(01:17):
or Republicans nazi or fascist? And chat GPT said no,
And I'm not really surprised by that, knowing a little
bit about your you know, about your mom's side of
the family.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I'm Jewish also, and.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
I just wanted to thank you for, you know, having
chat GPT answer no to that question.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Well, I appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
I mean, I think the state of our public discourse
is shameful.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
It's an embarrassment, and it.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
Has almost nothing to do with the needs of the
American people.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Or their kids or our grandkids. And if we don't.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
Change it, we're not going to be able to deliver them.
And I think when I think, let me just give
you an example. Ross two weeks ago, we learned in
America that our reading scores is a nation are now
lower than they were thirty two years ago. Try remember
the last time you heard a host on Fox mentioned that,
(02:19):
or a host on MSNBC or CNN mentioned that. When
there was a politician in Washington who mentioned that we
have a healthcare system that costs twice as much as
any healthcare system in the industrialized world, and we're dying
six years younger than people in other industrialized countries.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Around the world.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
When was the last time you heard any of these
so called reporters on the cable television stations talk about that,
or a national politician talk about that. We've got an
economy where the American dream is now out of reach
for most Americans. And I think that's at the heart
of that's at the heart of why our politics.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Is as busted as it is.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
But that's not the same thing as talking about why
our debate is as busted as it is. And I
think that is driven by the poison of social media
and the poison of these algorithms that are driving us
into these divided camps, and we have to overcome it.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
And I didn't mention this.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
I think most my listeners, my listeners know this already,
but I should state it explicitly. Senator Bennett is seeking
the Democratic nomination to be governor of Colorado, So I
just want to make sure we're all clear on that.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
All right, So you.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Talked about social media, and that's something I have on
my very my short list of things I want to
talk with you about. So I'm a parent and I
see all this stuff, and I do think that while
there are a lot of true, wonderful benefits of social media,
in many ways it's injecting poison into our society right now.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
I'm not sure what a great answer to that is.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
And I'll note just as a side thing, and maybe
we'll come back to it.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Because you gave a rather.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Impassionate speech on the Senate floor about the shooting at
Evergreen High School that the shooter at Evergreen High School
appears to have his brain appears that his brain was
poisoned on social media. We can maybe come back to Evergreen.
But that's an example. My question for you is is.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
There a solution or is the solution just good parenting.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Well let me say this first. Ross.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
You may not remember this, but before I was in
the Senate, I was the superintendent of the Denver Public Schools.
We led a reform effort at the Denver Public Schools
that actually resulted in some of the certainly in the
greatest gains in student achievement of any district.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
In Colorado at that time, one.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Of the greatest gains, if not the greatest gains across
the country. One of the things when I was superintendent
that we never did was have a conversation about the
mental health epidemic that was ripping through our kids, because
we weren't having a mental health epidemic ripping through our kids.
Fifteen years later, we are, and it's a result of
(05:07):
COVID and social media and the economic strains that families
are phasing. By the way, it's the result of the
ridiculous political conversation that we as adults are having that
is not modeling decent behavior for our kids and decent
behavior for our grandkids.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
You said, what should we do about it?
Speaker 4 (05:26):
Obviously, parenting is important part of it.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
What we do is families are important part of it.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
But I'll tell you families, in some ways there's a
limit even what they can do. You know, anybody who
has a kid know how hard it is to get
the phone out of their hands. If you meet, as
I have with child adolescent psychologists, they will tell you
they don't even know what to do with their own kids.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
And they're trained to deal with these things. So you know,
I think it is.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
Obviously parenting needs to be part of it. Obviously kids
need to be part of it too. There's no pressure
that's greater, you know, if you can turn it to
a force for good. There's no pressure in America that's
stronger than pure pressure among teenagers too for the good,
like not just for the bad. But it's also true
(06:17):
ross that we have never had. There is no one
in America who's ever had a negotiation with Mark Zuckerberg
about our privacy, our data, our economics. These guys have
just taken from us, and they are drilling for oil
in our kids' bedrooms. I believe a solution to that
would be to have an agency in Washington whose sole
(06:39):
job was to was to think about, you know, the
damage these addictive algorithms are doing to our kids, the
fact that the Russians and the Chinese and the Iranians
are invading our platforms, the fact that we've got massive
antitrust violations with these huge, huge companies, but we haven't
been able to get that done here because this place
(07:01):
is so broken. So I think the answer is all
the above.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
It's my view, so.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
I share your I guess I'll call it a combination
of anger and frustration with these social media companies and
the harms doing the children.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
One of the things I worried about.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
I worry about And you know, I'm I'm a lower
case L libertarian. I'm a small government guy. My touchdown
is the Constitution. I don't cheer for one party or
the other. But what I worry about when we start
talking about agencies is will they go too far? Will
they become dominated by politics? Will they end up? And
(07:40):
I realized broadcast media is different from social media and
lives under different rules. But you look at this nonsense like,
I'm not a Jimmy Kimmel fan, and the stuff that
he said that kind of got him fired was really
bad stuff.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
But for the FCC to.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Jump in and involve themselves in that conversation was outrageous
and purely political, and it seemed to me like pandering
to Donald Trump. And I really hate it. And I
like Brendan Carr, but I did not like that at all.
And how do we prevent an agency such as the
type that you suggest might manage social media from falling
into these same traps?
Speaker 4 (08:16):
Totally, I mean, a completely legitimate concern, And today I
won't go through the safeguards that I put in that
legislation to deal with that. But the reason they're in
there is because that's a completely legitimate concern. I mean,
there's concerns about overreach, concerns about underreach, concerns about incumbent
industries dominating you know, a regulatory agency. Those are all
(08:40):
massive concerns, and it demonstrates, by the way, how our
system needs to be much more nimble, much more flexible.
But one of the reasons why I don't think we
can leave this decision to Congress is that Congress will
never deal with it effectively because maybe we'll deal with privacy,
but we'll never deal with the anti trust problem. Maybe,
(09:01):
you know, we won't deal with the Russia or Iran problem.
And our predecessors, like guys like Teddy Roosevelt, who was
a Republican, you know, had this sense in their day
to be able to establish agencies that could deal with
the demands of their moment. You know, in that instance,
(09:24):
it was the trust that he was having to bust.
In our moment, it's we're living I think ross in
a new gilded age, and I think we have to
push back against some of these guys, But you're right,
those cautions are really important.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Let me let me stop there.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
So let's see. How many years have you been in
the Senate now?
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Sixteen?
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Wow, gosh, that went fast. I don't know if it
went fast for you, but.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
Tell me about it. My daughters were nine, seven and
four when I started. Oh my gosh, twenty six, twenty six, warrens.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Okay, and twenty So how has the quality of conversation
between you and Republican senators changed during that time? And
to the and do you think that what seems to
me from the cheap seats here well about America generally,
like I think the quality of political conversation isn't very good.
(10:20):
I often hear that senators are more congenial, But how
has that changed? And to the extent that you use
the word modeling, to the extent that the Senate is
not modeling great behavior right now?
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Or Congress generally, do you think that is?
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Do you think that is Congress following the culture or
leading the culture.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
I think they're following the cable news culture. I think
they're following the social media culture. And it's poison. It's poison.
And that doesn't mean it's all bad, but in terms
of the way it's intersecting with our politics, it's terrible.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
I have, you know, had long standing.
Speaker 4 (10:59):
Relationships with the Republicans, and it wasn't just in the
old days.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
I mean, Mitch.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
McConnell and I have worked closely together to get the
Ukraine aid over the finish line. It wouldn't have happened
without I think our work together. But I think the
quality of the discussion has deteriorated is a lot, a lot,
but it's also deteriorated all over America. I mean, Ross,
I'm really worried about this. You mentioned the founders, you know,
(11:26):
I think one of the principles of our founding was
that in a free society, where you had freedom of
the press, where you had free speech, that unlike in
a totalitarian society, you would have the chance to have disagreements.
You know, that you could have a point of view
(11:46):
about something, and I can have a.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Point of view. That we wouldn't have.
Speaker 4 (11:49):
A monopoly wisdom, that we would have conflict in a
free society, and out of that conflict we would generate
more imaginative, more thoughtful, more durable than any king or
tiredt could come.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Up with on their own.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
That's the whole reason to be in a democracy is
to be able to make those better decisions.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
We have lost that fundamentally.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
Everybody thinks they have a monopoly on wisdom because that's
what the guys on the cable television claim. Everybody says
they have a monopoly on wisdom because that's what the
guys on social media claim. The reality and the reality
is not only are we divided, we're not even focusing
on this stuff that kids and our grandkids need us.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
To focus on.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
Do we have a functional healthcare system? Do we have
a functionial education system? Do we have a capitalist economy
in our society that's actually driving wages up for everybody,
not just the people at the very top. Where is
that being debated or discussed in America today?
Speaker 1 (12:49):
I couldn't agree with you more and you and I,
I am sure, have very different policy solutions to things,
but we probably have a list of vend that overlaps
massively when talking about well what are the problems?
Speaker 2 (13:05):
And one that you.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Didn't mention that I always think about in terms of
my children is the national Dad. It scares the but
Jesus out of me. Now we're low on time here,
so I just want to switch to a couple of
state things since you are running for governor, and just
a couple of things I wanted to ask you about.
So one, you, I'm sure will be making some effort
(13:27):
to get votes from rural Colorado and not just urban
and suburban Colorado. And I will say I have a
lot of rural listeners, and a lot of these folks
feel not just ignored but aggrieved by the current governor, who,
by the way, is a friend of mine. But you
know this stuff like stop eating meat and the wolf
free introduction and all this. What are your thoughts and
(13:51):
plans for how to at least try to appeal to
rural Colorado so that rural people don't feel like it's
just a govern of Denver.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
First of all, we rise and fall together. Everybody in
the state does. And I have spent a huge amount
of my time as a Senator in rural Colorado, not
sight seeing, but working with local people, working with county commissioners,
working with mayors, working with the CEOs of hospitals, working
with farmers and ranchers. The first day I walked into
the Senate, I asked to be put on the Agriculture Committee,
(14:26):
not because I know anything about agriculture.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
I didn't know anything about agriculture.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
And all these years later, that's the one committee that
I'm still on because it's so important to Colorado and
has put me into rural Colorado.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
I've spent huge amounts of time there when I've been in.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
The Senate, even though there are many counties that no
matter what I do, I'll never get more than twenty
or thirty percent of the vote. Partly because I've been
doing the work of protecting and defending and enhancing Colorado's
agricultural economy and our rural economy, and defending, by the way,
(15:04):
rural healthcare is part of that, and trying to help
diversify our economy. But also because I believe that's a
critically important thing we should expect out of our elected officials.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Whether they vote for us or not.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
They need to be there in order to have the
conversation I was talking about earlier. I do not get
up in the morning ross thinking I have a monopoly
on wisdom.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
I don't get up in the morning thinking that people
aren't going to disagree with me. I actually think people
will disagree with me, and out of that will end
up with a better set of ideas on the wolves.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
I couldn't agree with you more.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
I think it should be implemented the way it was negotiated.
There are a lot of people that spend a lot
of time negotiating that wil free introduction, and I think
that we could do a much better job of implementing it.
I've spent a bunch of time in the last month
with ranchers across the state in a meeting outside a steamboat,
(15:59):
and a meeting and in Carbondale to make sure that
I can hear from them directly about the way this
is affecting them. And you know, there's a deep concern
among them that the front that they are politicians and
why in Denver that are trying to push ranching off
of the private lands. In Colorado, there's a deep concern
(16:20):
that we're trying to use a public lands policy or
you know, or or the wolf policy to somehow end
ranching in Colorado, and we need to address that.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
All right, last very quick thing. I'm already late, but
I got to ask you this question. I was very
interested to see you. And then maybe yesterday did Jared
Poulis as well take a public position against the new BUCkies.
Tell us, just briefly, just very briefly, why are you
against it and why did you decide to come out
(16:53):
publicly like that.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
I'll tell you why.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
I'll tell you why, because that was going to be
located on one of the most icon places in Colorado.
He's going to be located on the southwestern corner of
Monument Hill. As if you're coming from the north as
you come over Monument Hill to see beautiful Pike's Peak,
to see the Greenland Ranch, which is one of the
(17:17):
longest standing ranches cattle ranches in Colorado. That is part
of an effort that a bipartisan group of Colorado's invested
more than one hundred and thirty million dollars to protect
and defend on both sides of I twenty five. Right there,
I think it's the last place in Colorado you should
(17:40):
put a buckets and it'd be like putting it on
top of Pike's Peak in my view. So there are
probably lots of other places it should go, but I
think having it go right there on one of the
most iconic pieces of land and in Colorado would be
a huge mistake, and our kids and our grandkids would
(18:03):
never forgive us for it, which is why I raised it.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Senator Michael Bennett is seeking the Democratic nomination to be
the next governor of Colorado. Grateful to have you on
the show. Hopefully I will disagree with you more next time,
but we will always do so politely.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Let me come back. I'd love to come back.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
All right, we'll do it. Maybe when you're in town.
Sometimes you can come to the studio in the Denver
Tech Center.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Let's do it. I'm sorry these mugs delayed us here.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
No no, oh, yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Yeah, but your staff has been fabulous, absolutely virus so
thank them for me.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Thank you, Michael, I appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
All right, take care, Thanks everybody, have a good weekend
Speaker 2 (18:39):
All right, you too,
The Ross Kaminsky Show News
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