10-1-24 - *FULL SHOW* Craig Ferguson; Election Security; Taking YOUR Money

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's a rare opportunity for me to have a guest

(00:02):
on the show whom I've wanted to have on the
show for a long time. Trey yinst is a foreign correspondent,
and now I suppose you would also have to say
a war correspondent. Well, he's done that plenty of times
before for Fox News, and he joins us from northern
Israel right now. I will note, in addition to what
we're going to talk about regarding what's going on in
Israel and Lebanon, today is publication day for Trey's book

(00:26):
called Black Saturday, an unfiltered account of the October seventh
attack on Israel and the war on Gaza. I have
started it, I haven't finished it yet. It's a remarkable read.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Trey.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
Thanks for making time for us. I know this has
got to be one of the busiest.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Days ever for you, so I appreciate your being here.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
Absolutely. Thanks for having me. So, you know my intent
when I asked to have you on was to talk
about the quote unquote limited.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
Israeli ground invasion.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
I think news maybe has passed us by a little bit,
but give us a few seconds on Israeli activities in
southern Lebanon, including you apparently having just been on the
ground in Lebanon within the last several hours. Yeah. Absolutely, So.

Speaker 3 (01:09):
Overnight the Israelis launched a ground invasion into southern Lebanon.
It was in relatively small ground invasion, but overall it
was the first time that Israeli forces had been publicly
operating over the border since two thousand and six. And
it's significant because they're not going after Lebannon's army. They're
going after Hesbolap positions that the Israelis say are stationed

(01:31):
all along the border and are responsible for all of
these rocket and anti tank guided missile attacks over the
past year.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
So it was interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
Yesterday I saw just a headline from AFP, I think
French news agency or some and it said it said
Lebanese army moving in preparation for potential Israeli ground invasion.
That's all it's said. And I tweeted back at them, well,
does that mean they're moving towards the Israelis or does
it mean they're moving away from a potential ground invasion?

(02:02):
So what do we know about what the Lebanese army such.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
As it is, is doing here.

Speaker 3 (02:11):
What that tells me is that the Israelis actually gave
the Lebanese army a heads up in some capacity that
they were going to do this, or there were some
messages communicated maybe by the United Nations, for example, that
previously had forces along the blue line between Israel and Lebanon,
basically to get out of the way, because the last
thing that the Lebanese army wants is a direct confrontation

(02:33):
with Israel at this point, because Israel's war right now
is with the Iran Bak militant group Hezbolah, and Hesbola
controls most of the territory in southern Lebanon, and that's
part of the reason that the Israelis want to go in.
They want to clear out these positions because they say
that the Iranians are smuggling weapons into southern Lebanon to
this group that is threatening not only residents of northern Israel,

(02:55):
but also central Israel and major population centers like Tel Aviv.
Earlier today sirens sounding there as rockets rained down, one
of them hitting a major highway, and so there are
real questions about what comes next in this situation. The
Israelis are not just looking though at that northern front.
The war still continues inside Gaza, and in possibly just
a matter of hours, Iran could launch an attack using

(03:17):
ballistic missiles against Israel.

Speaker 1 (03:19):
One last on Lebanon, and then I want to talk
about the Iran piece. If Israel could weaken Hesbelah enough,
do you think the Lebanese government and the Lebanese military,
which is obviously very influenced by Hesbela, they're part of it,
But do you think the Lebanese military would have the
motivation and the will and the capability to themselves take

(03:43):
out the rest of Hesbolah and rid the country of Hesbelah. Look,
it's certainly possible.

Speaker 3 (03:50):
And anyone who knows a little bit about Lebanese history
will tell you about Lebanon civil wars and a country
that has been plagued by civil war. And it's also
a country that's incredibly divided. If you look at a
map of Lebanon, you can see the division between Sunni
and Shia Muslumps, also Mennonite Christians and just a variety

(04:12):
of different sects. Drew's individuals too that live all throughout Lebanon.
So it's a very divided society in many senses, and
there's not clear leadership, and this has led to a
lot of issues in the government and corruption that we've
covered on the ground when I reported from Beirut back
in twenty twenty and also in twenty twenty one.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
And so the future of.

Speaker 4 (04:30):
Lebanon certainly not clear.

Speaker 3 (04:33):
But unfortunately, in many of these conflicts, and Lebanon is
no exception, the people who pay the highest price. It's
the civilian population that lives there, and we are seeing
that play out today with now, according to the caretaker
Prime Minister, around a million people displaced as a result
of the Israeli campaign against South Lebanon.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
We're talking with Trey yinkste joins Us from Northern Israel.
His new book, published today is called Black Saturday, An
Unfiltered account of the October seventh attack on Israe and
the war in Gaza. So the news this morning, and
I don't know exactly if it isn't news rumor, I
don't know how you would characterize it, but apparently the
White House is telling Israel and news outlets that they

(05:15):
maybe see evidence of Iran preparing the launch missiles against Israel.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
What do you know and what do you think?

Speaker 3 (05:25):
Yeah, look, these warnings don't go out at this level
unless the Americans and the Israelis have clear intelligence that
something is going to happen. And so we know that
embassy staff has been instructed to shelter in place. Already
the Home Front Command, responsible for talking to civilians in Israel,
has issued new guidelines to avoid large public gatherings. These
are all signs that there is information Iran plans to attack,

(05:48):
and they have not just satellite intelligence but hard intelligence
on the ground. They can see the movement of missiles
and personnel, and so generally when the warnings are sounding
this loud, it means something is going to happen, and
if suddenly happens, it may look very similar to what
we saw back in April when the Iranians responded to
an Israeli strike against the embassy in Damascus, and that

(06:11):
included three hundred ballistic missiles, cruise missiles and drones that
were fired toward Israel. Not many of them actually made
into Israeli airspace, but that was a result of a
coalition force that shot many of them down, and so
we could see something similar and if that happens, expected
Israeli response in the days ahead. But this is sort
of what we've been seeing across the region, a gradual
war of attrition that is escalating into a broader regional conflict.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
It would be interesting if Iran actually launches at this
point to see if the US gets involved.

Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yeah, I was talking with my mom yesterday. Were Jewish.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
We have a lot of cousins in Israel, and she
had been talking to some of them.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
It was funny it came up in the conversation.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
How when in Israeli, especially these days, says you know,
we're safe. That has quite a different meaning than what
it might mean to an American.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
What's it like being in Israel? I mean, like you're.

Speaker 1 (07:01):
Talking about right now, the possibility of Iranian missiles being
lobbed at Israel. Where you are? You sound pretty calm,
You sound like in Israeli.

Speaker 3 (07:12):
There's a weird echotomy in the society that people continue
their lives despite the security situation, so much so that
today's a great example. There were rockets fired from Lebanon
toward Tel Aviv, this economic hub, and you know, moments
after the sirens are done sounding and the interceptions take place,

(07:32):
or even the rockets land, people go back to work.
They go back to cafes into restaurants, and that's just
the reality of the life here. And we see this
not just in central Israel, but across the country. It's
a country that is used to war and they've adjusted
in some sense.

Speaker 1 (07:48):
Last question for you, and I want to end talking
a little bit about your new book called Black Saturday,
an Unfiltered account of the October seventh attack on Israel
and the war in Gaza. You've been a lot of places,
You've I've seen a lot of things, You've done, a
lot of m beds that would scare the Jesus out
of most of the most people. You talk about one
of them at the beginning of the book. I'm curious,

(08:08):
given that whole context of your remarkable experience, how the
specific reporting in the immediate aftermath of October seventh has
changed you as a person and as a reporter.

Speaker 3 (08:22):
I think it's reminded me what I tried to focus
all of my reporting on, and that is that the
story that we cover, it's the humans that we talk to,
the Israelis, the Palestinians, the people who are directly affected
by war, and so it's a reminder to be empathetic,
to encourage people to learn more about the people they
disagree with, and also to learn more about not only

(08:43):
what happened on October seventh, which is critical to remember,
and the hostages that are still being held inside Gaza,
but also what's happened in Gaza to the Palestinian people,
and remembering that this is not a black and white
story or situation, and everyone exists on a spectrum, and
it's critical to learn about people, try to understand people,
and be empathetic toward others folks.

Speaker 1 (09:04):
For years, actually not just the past year, but for years,
I've found Trey Yanks' reporting from Israel to be the
best reporting from Israel. And of course the past year,
nobody has done a better job on war reporting and
offered more compelling reporting than Trey yankst has. His new
book is Black Saturday, an Unfiltered account of the October
seventh attack on Israel and the war in Gaza. Trey

(09:26):
joined us from Northern Israel today. Thank you very very
much for your time and for your continually great work.
Absolutely thanks for having me. Glad to do it, Glad
to do it all right, folks, that's Trey Yanks from Israel.
Just very very pleased to have had him on. Been
trying for a long time to have that guy on,
and then to have him on today when the war

(09:46):
is happening, and he was in Lebanon a few hours ago,
kind of remarkable, and I'm grateful to Fox for arranging
that for us.

Speaker 2 (09:55):
We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right
back on kaway.

Speaker 1 (09:57):
I mentioned to you on yesterday's show that you should
keep an eye out for a potential major strike by
the ILA, the International Longshoreman's Association, otherwise known as the
dock workers, and they in fact went on strike at
midnight this past midnight, and we're talking about I want
to say, thirty six ports or something like that from

(10:21):
Maine all the way down the East coast and then
around over to I think as far west as New
Orleans maybe, and it will impact lots of things, cars,
fruits and vegetables, parts for all kinds of stuff.

Speaker 2 (10:35):
And we'll have to see how long this thing lasts.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
Most presidents probably would let this go for a while
and then use their presidential powers to require the dock
workers to go back to work. Joe Biden has said
he will not do that, which I think, if anything,
is probably, you know, to the extent that this is.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
Political and everything.

Speaker 1 (10:59):
In is these days. That's some good news for Donald
Trump because this is gonna be ugly.

Speaker 5 (11:05):
Now.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
I want you to have a listen to this guy
named Harold Daggett. He's the chief negotiator for the ILA.
He's wearing a giant gold chain around his neck like
a rapper, but he looks to be, you know, a
sixty something year old, mostly bald, white dude with a
gray goatee. And have a listen to this. Come on, computer,

(11:31):
please work. Oh my gosh. All right, that's technology for you.
Hopefully this thing will start up in a second. This
guy is he's just an unbelievable piece of work and
basically he's threatening the economy. But at the same time,
you know, I'm gonna try one more time here to

(11:53):
get this thing going. So even though this is live radio,
I really want I really want you to hear this.
Let's try it again.

Speaker 6 (12:00):
Hit the streets from Maine to Texas. Every single port
will lockdown. You know what's gonna happen, I'll tell you.
First week, be all over the news every nine boom boom.
Second week, guys who sell cars can't sell cars because
the cars ain't coming in off the ships. They get

(12:21):
laid off. Third week malls are closing down. They can't
get the goods from China. They can't sell clothes. They
can't do this. Everything in the United States comes on
a ship. They go out of business. Construction workers get
laid off because the materials aren't coming in.

Speaker 1 (12:41):
The steel's not coming in, the lumber's not coming in.
They lose their job.

Speaker 6 (12:46):
Everybody's eting the long showman now because now they realize
how important our jobs are. Now I have the President
screaming at me. I'm putting a taff holly on. You
go ahead, taft Holly means I have to go back
to work.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
For ninety days after cool you up? Period.

Speaker 6 (13:04):
Do you think when I go back for ninety days,
those men are going to go to work on that pid.
It's going to cost the money, the company's money to
pay the salaries.

Speaker 1 (13:11):
Well, yeh, go one from thirty moves an now maybe
they eight.

Speaker 6 (13:15):
They're gonna be like this, who's gonna win here? In
the long run, You're better off sitting down and let's
get a contract.

Speaker 1 (13:22):
And let's move on with this world. And could today's world.
I'll cripple you. I will cripple you, and you have
no idea what that means. Nobody does. That's that's Harold Daggett.
I'll cripple you. And if you make me go back
to work, we want you. We won't really load and
unload the ships anyway, so they don't bother. Now does

(13:44):
that guy sound a little bit like a mafia boss
to you?

Speaker 2 (13:47):
By the way, Like I said, it's really kind of funny.

Speaker 1 (13:49):
He's wearing this massive gold chain like he wants to
be flavor Flave, you know. But he's a sixty something
year old white dude. But listen to this. He must
be older than that actually, because he's been a union
member or worked for the union for fifty seven years. Now,
listen to this.

Speaker 2 (14:09):
From the UK Telegraph. I love this.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
Despite his eminent blue collar credentials, the union baron earned
seven hundred and twenty eight thousand dollars last year from
the union, plus another one hundred and seventy three thousand
as president emeritus of a local union brand. So there's
nine hundred thousand dollars in income for the guy. He
previously owned a seventy six foot yacht called the Obsession,

(14:32):
and has been spotted by his members riding in a Bentley.
According to The New York Times, the Justice Department, which
has reportedly lost two cases against mister Daggett, has accused
him of being an associate of the General VC crime family,
one of the infamous Five Families of the US mafia.
Charged with racketeering in two thousand and five, mister Daggett
took the witness stand and portrayed himself as a target

(14:55):
of the mob, despite evidence against him from a turncoat
mafia and forcer.

Speaker 2 (14:59):
Seeing he was under the control.

Speaker 1 (15:01):
During that trial, one of mister Daggett's co defendants, a
renowned mobster named Lawrence Ricci, disappeared. His decomposing body was
found in the trunk of a car outside of a
New Jersey diner a few weeks later, and the killing
is still unsolved. Despite his union serving as a historic
symbol of the grip of organized crime on union members,

(15:21):
as depicted in the nineteen fifty four film on the Waterfront,
mister Daggett was acquitted in both cases. The union leader
has previously criticized the Waterfront Commission, set up to combat
mafia control of the port calling the allegations of mob
influenced total bs. He didn't use that word, and a dark,
ugly attack on Italian Americans, and oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (15:43):
So that's who this guy is. And I'll tell you
as much as of a like.

Speaker 1 (15:49):
I'll say, the dude is almost certainly a criminal and
mobbed up. But that doesn't mean I want to go
against him in a fight, or maybe it means I
don't want to go against him in a fight. And
I will say, these ships companies, they got their hands
full with this guy. He's refused to meet with them
for months, even knowing that this was coming. They want
a seventy seven percent raise over six years. The company's

(16:11):
all offered a fifty percent raise over eight years, which
already sounds pretty good. And he's saying, no, I won't
even sit down with you. We'll see how ugly this
thing gets, because it probably will. I aspire to do
a particular thing as a radio host, and that is,
whenever I have the possibility to have someone in studio
with me who at least theoretically would eat Hagis with me.

(16:34):
If I brought a Hagis in, then that's what I do.
So that's what we've done today. Craig Ferguson joins me
in studio.

Speaker 7 (16:43):
Uh, he would be with you or anyone else, really, Mata, No,
have you either eaten a hag? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (16:50):
Twice? Really in Edinburgh? I haven't been to your town
of Glasgow, but Edinburgh.

Speaker 7 (16:55):
Did you have the mcsweens vegetarian haggis or did you
have the full hagens?

Speaker 1 (16:59):
The ful hagis?

Speaker 7 (17:00):
Okay, how are you feeling? I had it twice and
that means it was good enough the first time, and
I oh to a different restaurant. Have you had a
cool and uscope? Because he's probably still there?

Speaker 1 (17:11):
Are you? You?

Speaker 2 (17:12):
Seriously wouldn't don't eat? Wouldn't eat if I brought them in.

Speaker 1 (17:16):
I've eaten a lot of hags in my life.

Speaker 2 (17:18):
I have to be drunk to eat it? Or no, no,
I don't have to be drunk.

Speaker 7 (17:21):
I think that what happens is you have to be
drunk to come up with the idea.

Speaker 1 (17:24):
Then we'll get all these off the flow up and
we'll put them in not coming dumb and frying folks. Yeah,
that's Craig Ferguson, and you know him from everywhere, right
You know you know him from The Late Late Show,
and you know him from Drew Carrey, and you know

(17:44):
him from movies, and you know him from Bucks. And
he's playing it Comedy Works Downtown Larimer Square Thursday, Friday
and Saturday.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
Two shows Friday and Saturday.

Speaker 1 (17:53):
I have not checked this morning, but last night when.

Speaker 2 (17:56):
I looked at the two Saturday shows were already sold out.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
So I should say before we keep going on Hagis,
I really appreciate your being here. You're a dude who
doesn't need to come on the radio to sell tickets.

Speaker 7 (18:07):
Well that's very nice, and I really appreciate you. Thank
you with us very happy to be here. I'm also
having a nice time.

Speaker 1 (18:13):
I mean, I haven't talked about Hagas and in hours hours,
Uh huh. You must get that a lot because Americans
are fascinated with Haggis. Although I'm probably one of the
few have actually eaten it who brings it up with you.

Speaker 7 (18:27):
Haggas Is been an odd thing because I think people
have this idea about Haggis that is somehow exalting. I
think has Is is really just like a hot dog
with a bad publicist, you know what I mean, And
it's it's like, oh, I could eat all that stuff
that'sena hagas ago.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
Have you had a bullpark? Do you know what's in there?

Speaker 7 (18:45):
I mean it's Bullpark, a brand, it is, well, I
don't mean, I don't mean Bullpark is a brand. I
mean a generic hot dog in a because I don't
know what's in a bullpark.

Speaker 1 (18:55):
Dude, you ever seen a YouTube video of how hot
dogs are made? No?

Speaker 2 (18:59):
Oh, you don't want to, you know.

Speaker 1 (19:01):
I don't know. I think I don't want to, you.

Speaker 7 (19:03):
Do I think I do want all right, I think
I do.

Speaker 1 (19:06):
Want to know all the sausages.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
Man, you have to the year?

Speaker 1 (19:10):
Yeah, oh my god, honey, what have you been watching
on YouTube?

Speaker 8 (19:13):
Bob?

Speaker 1 (19:13):
And watching sausage making videos? And I'm excited? All right?
What was this thing about this uh bar of soap
that's fascinating you?

Speaker 5 (19:21):
Now?

Speaker 7 (19:21):
Well, it's this bar of soap. I've been seeing it
on the internet. It's a bar of soap that it's
not a die but you wash yourself with this barrosope
and and it stimulates the original color of your hair.

Speaker 1 (19:32):
It might not be true, but this is what they say.

Speaker 7 (19:34):
It stimulates the color hair and you you get rid
of gray, and I've got a lot of gray hair,
and who if you can know this about me, I'm
starting to go gray.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
And I don't mind going gray.

Speaker 7 (19:41):
Upstairs, but I'm getting gray downstairs, getting kicked out and
you know, snow in the roofs snow in the basement.

Speaker 1 (19:47):
Two different sets of problems.

Speaker 7 (19:49):
And there are parts of my body I do not
want to look distinguished.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
Distinguished. Yeah, you know how I like it. Let's distinguished,
I mean, don't. I don't want it to look this
thing no different distinguished.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
Do you still play drums? Yes, tell me a little
tell us.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
I don't know if folks know anything about you and drums,
so tell us a little. Well, that's how I started.

Speaker 7 (20:13):
I was a drummer in punk rock bands when I
was a kid, and that's how I ended up doing
stand up because people thought the drumming was funny. I
think it was punk rock when I was involved, right that,
you know, like the very late seventies, it was it
was more than just music. It was fashion.

Speaker 1 (20:28):
It was there.

Speaker 7 (20:29):
Were beat poets, so there were you know, it was
a whole kind of scene. So the fact that I
would do they used to call it an alternative comedy
the fact that I would do that is a kind
of natural progression. Doesn't sound like it now, but it
would have been then. It's just everybody did everything and
you ended up finding your thing.

Speaker 1 (20:47):
Did wacky punk rock drummers get the girls like the
way Mick Jagger probably got the girls?

Speaker 7 (20:54):
No, no, no, that wasn't my experience. I experience it
that way at all.

Speaker 1 (21:01):
It was it was. It was an interesting time. It
was great.

Speaker 7 (21:06):
I had a lot of energy when I was a kid. So,
you know, punk rock drumming is a good way to
get it. If you have a hyperactive team, yeah, you know,
get them into find them a punk rock band and
get them in there as a drummer.

Speaker 1 (21:16):
It's it's a perfect way to deal with it.

Speaker 7 (21:18):
Do you have kids. I do have two, And did
either of one of them get into drumming? Both of
them drum really both of them are. Both of them
are better drummers than me. Did they do any punk
rock drumming or they can do? They can do it.
They can pretty much do anything. I mean, I came
to drumming because I found a drum kit and I
had some buddies.

Speaker 1 (21:35):
They they're they're.

Speaker 7 (21:37):
A little more measured they're they're they're much more interesting
people than I was. That's younger, because when I was young,
it was you know, it was very very different time,
you know. I mean, the Kaiser was amassing as armies
on the German border, you know, and the prohibition was
still around it.

Speaker 1 (21:56):
It was bad.

Speaker 7 (21:57):
Huh, you're right, right, That's why I've got, you know,
a distinguished basement.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
I'm going to pronounce this wrong, but what was the
mascot of Cumbernauld High School?

Speaker 8 (22:08):
Oh?

Speaker 7 (22:08):
No, you pronounced it right, Okay, yeah, Well Cumbernauld High
School is the my old high school. I don't know
we had a maskco if it was anything, probably a
broken bottle or something. It wasn't that school isn't there anymore?

Speaker 1 (22:20):
Really? Yeah, they knowed it, and I'm glad they did.
It was it was what do you remember most about
high school? And it won terror? Fear, really fear. Yeah.

Speaker 7 (22:28):
It was an extremely violent experience and I felt like
not necessarily from the teachers, although there was a bet
of that too. They used to beat us with leather belts,
but mostly just the culture around. The kids were all
kind of no I guess maybe no all of them,
but that is just my experience. It's funny because my
brother and my sisters went to the same school and

(22:50):
they don't remember the same way as me at all.
They have quite fond memories of it. But I was like,
oh no, this place is terrifory.

Speaker 1 (22:56):
Picked on a lot as a kid, or I think
so I was.

Speaker 7 (22:59):
I think I picked on a little bit. My nickname
when I was a kid was Tubby. You know, because
I was I was. I was a Tubby kid. I
don't think you. I don't think it's legal to call
a kid tubby, probably not anymore.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
You know. You get a lot of trouble calling a
kid Tubby, but I got called Tubby. That was my name.
People would go Tubby Ferguson, Come come here, Tubby Ferguson.
Until I have you had an Indian button. Oh my gosh,
yeah it's back.

Speaker 4 (23:23):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
Yeah, purple nurples, everything sly.

Speaker 5 (23:28):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
I'm I'm really uh fascinated by.

Speaker 1 (23:33):
Your take of uh Canadian actor James Dewin's role as
as mister Scott, uh, you know, as the engineer on
on Star Trek.

Speaker 6 (23:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
I'm guessing maybe you're not not quite your favorite portrayal
of a Scott's money. You know, I've softened done it
over the years. Yeah, I realized now that it's all right.

Speaker 7 (23:52):
It's kind of a tribute and in fact, and if
you know it about Canada, it's Kindada is a large.

Speaker 1 (23:58):
Degree of Scottishness in canad And.

Speaker 7 (24:01):
So I've softened on it because somebody say to me once.
I think this is what turned me around on it.
Somebody said to me it was someone in La said,
I'm offended on your behalf. I'm like, well, for it
spent from the character of grands Keeper Willie and the Simpsons.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
That's offensive the Scottish people. I'm like, not really, you know.

Speaker 7 (24:20):
I mean, I don't know how many Scottish people you know,
but you know, groundskeeper Willy is in shape, and he
has a job. You know, he's he's doing pretty well.
I don't have a problem with grands Keeper Willy or Shrek.
People say, oh, you can write a bit Shrek.

Speaker 1 (24:34):
I'm like, he's a cartoon.

Speaker 7 (24:36):
It's a cartoon of an ogre, you know. And also
it looks like a lot of people I went to
school with.

Speaker 1 (24:41):
I got a problem with it. Yeah, well, it's kind
of like goes back to the thing. You can't call
anybody tubby These days, everybody wants to be offended about something, right,
It's I think it's kind of I get it.

Speaker 7 (24:53):
I mean it's maybe a little bit of an overcorrection,
but I like the idea that the that people can
get called out and being mean to other people. I
think it's I don't really have a problem with that.
I think when it gets when, it gets ridiculous. But
I don't think most people are in that world of
ridiculous hypercentage.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
I think that's kind of made up.

Speaker 7 (25:15):
I think it's kind of like the fake thing like
that they do on the tabloid websites.

Speaker 1 (25:20):
Ut like they pretend that everyone's annoyed. They'll say everyone's.

Speaker 7 (25:23):
Annoyed on a thing, and then you go what, And
then if you read it, it's like five people on
when Instagram are annoyed at a thing, and I'm like, well,
they were annoyed anyway before that thing.

Speaker 1 (25:33):
So I don't think it's the same.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
It's all clickbait all the time.

Speaker 1 (25:36):
So I think it's the fear industrial complex. It's like,
how do.

Speaker 7 (25:39):
We get you to engage with whatever digital product we're
putting out. So the things that will make you engage
is fear or anger, and so they try and get
a headline. I mean, I saw a thing a headlined once.
I can't remember. It was on a tabloid website where
I said, this will make you angry, and I'm like,
all right, I'm gonna I'm.

Speaker 1 (25:59):
Gonna collect it, and I did.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
I tell I can't even.

Speaker 7 (26:02):
Remember what it was, but it's just, you know, it's
it's the way to try and get you engagement is
where the money is.

Speaker 1 (26:07):
That's all it is.

Speaker 2 (26:08):
We're talking with Craig Ferguson.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
He's playing Thursday night and then two shows Friday and
Saturday nights at Comedy Works Downtown in laramer Square. Be
sure you understand that it's the downtown club and there
are some tickets still available at Comedyworks dot com. Not
all the tickets again, as of last night, at least
the Saturday shows we were already sold out. Do you
love playing Denver?

Speaker 7 (26:29):
I love playing the Comedy Works. For me that that
club is the best club in the US. I mean,
there's a lot of good clubs in America. The comedy
clubs are my favorite way to do comedy. Isn't a
club which is dark, and you know, no more than
you know, a few hundred people and packed and it's
a one off event. You know, it's not a there's

(26:51):
no digitization, nobody's recording it, nobody's filming it, and nobody's
got their phone. It's like it's an old school analog experience.
And I like that, I mean, and and so that's
the way I like to do it.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
And you know, and.

Speaker 7 (27:05):
I've done the enormo domes and I've done the you know,
the theaters, and I still do you know, I tend
to you know, doing big, big theaters is a lot
of work. You gotta sell the tickets and you got
to then you got to do the show. And it's
not just doesn't feel the same way. And I'm getting
too old to not to not enjoy it. I got

(27:25):
to enjoy it. Else what am I doing it for?

Speaker 1 (27:28):
You know? And at the enormous I mean, and at
a comedy work show, your closest attendee will be closer
than you and I are right now, and I can
almost touch you. And at the enormo dome.

Speaker 7 (27:40):
There's a there's a I mean, they're what you're doing
if you when you play the big venues, they're actually
big giant screens on either side. Yeah, and so people
when you go out and stand in front of an
audience is looking at the screens. They they're looking They're
not looking at you. They're looking at the screens. And
there's a disconnect. And also, no matter how good the
technical stuff and wherever you play, it was the tiniest

(28:02):
delay between you speaking and the screen. So if your
job is almost entirely about timing, you got to I mean,
it's doable and you can do it, but you got
to work it. And it doesn't feel the same like
if I if I'm playing and this will happen this week,
I will write jokes on stage and I will hear
them for the first time at the same time the

(28:25):
audience hears them. You know what I mean, We all
hear the joke for the first time at the same time.
That does not happen in the large well not for
me anyway. Yeah, in the large gigs, I don't do
it like that. I go out there with a show
that I'm going to do. But in the in the clubs,
it's like, all right, well we're taking a ride. Yeah,
And I kind of I prefer it that way. Not

(28:45):
everyone does, but I do.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
I mean, you're one of the most successful comedians here.
I mean I assume based on you know, ten years
in one network and however many years on another, you
probably don't even need to work.

Speaker 2 (28:59):
You probably just what you love what you do. So
does that mean.

Speaker 1 (29:03):
Like if somebody says, we want you to play, to
play a normal dome and we'll give you seventy grand
for one night, you might think, I just I just
don't really dig that, and I don't care about the
money that much.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
I just don't enjoy.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
It so much. Or let let's not get ahead of her.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
I just made up a number, right, what the numbers?

Speaker 1 (29:22):
All the seventy grand ain't enough for the normal dome.

Speaker 7 (29:25):
But but the but the the idea of it's not
even so much that it's it's the when I was young,
when I was a young calming or when I was
in my thirties and forties, the idea was very ambitious,
you know. It was like, you've got to get the
biggest crowds, you got to get the most franatic fame experience.

(29:46):
You want to be everyworry with. I don't want any
of that anymore. I don't want to be in that
high octane zeitgeist experience. I've done it well, I like
to do it, and you're right, I don't have to
do this.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
I've got a.

Speaker 7 (29:58):
I've got a pension, I guess. But it's this is
fun and I engage. It's like if I was a
guitar player and I went around the country playing the guitar,
no one would be remotely surprised. It's like, well, he
plays the guitar, is what he does. Yeah, and that's
kind of what I do. This is this is kind
of what I do.

Speaker 1 (30:15):
Right, I mean, I think the interesting comparison would be,
you know, the Rolling Stones are still touring now. You know,
again you probably don't have Mick Jagger money, but you know,
and they still play the big places. But of course,
I think it's it's a very different like it's a.

Speaker 2 (30:32):
Different thing for.

Speaker 1 (30:34):
A musician to have fifty thousand people cheering and clapping
and singing at the same time.

Speaker 7 (30:38):
Then, for a you make it an interesting point because
I know the Rolling Stones experience pretty well. I worked
with Mike Jagger on a screenplay for a movie we
never made for about two months. Huh so about two
months of the Bridges to Babylon tour, which is about
twenty years ago, maybe more. I toured with the Rolling Stones.
So I was on the road with Meg and you know,
and we went. I was in a Stumbull and Colone

(31:00):
in Santiago del Compostela, in London and you know, in
all these different places. And why I took away from that,
I mean I took a law away from that.

Speaker 1 (31:08):
It was an amazing experience.

Speaker 7 (31:09):
But one of the major things was Meg, who I
was working with, is a real showman, right, It's what
he does. But Keith is a musician. And Keith would
be just as happy playing a pub in eel Pie
Island in London as he would be playing a stadium
in istambul And in fact, I don't think he even notices

(31:32):
the difference. He's playing the guitar, that's what he's doing,
and so I think Meg would notice the difference. But
I think that band, they're so welded together now, I don't.
I mean, you know, Mike and Keith have been together
in that band since they were eighteen, you know, did
I was going.

Speaker 1 (31:50):
To ask you a question, But as I think about it,
I think it's a stupid question I was going to
ask you, why did you go on tour with the
Rolling Stones? And now I'm thinking the answer is, well,
wouldn't you if you could?

Speaker 7 (32:00):
And also we were writing this, we were writing this screenplay. Yeah,
and you know makes it well, you know, I'm there
on the tours, so what to do is you come
out on the road with me. And we were at
the screenplay and I'm like, yeah, right, okay, how going
to mec Dagger I suppose And it was I mean,

(32:20):
they were very nice.

Speaker 1 (32:21):
But it's a huge machine, sure.

Speaker 7 (32:24):
I mean there are three crews, there's about two hundred
and fifty people working that.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
That's not just guys on stage.

Speaker 7 (32:31):
That's an enormous you know, that's like this building is
going on the roads, you know. I mean, it's like,
so there's a I think that the band I know
that Meck does, and that they feel a sense of responsibility.
There are people that they've been working with for a
long time that you know, it's this is their job.
You know, the roadies and the crew and the text
and you know they all work together for a long time.

(32:53):
It's a big, big organization. That's a great point.

Speaker 2 (32:56):
Boy. I'm glad we stumbled onto that story.

Speaker 1 (32:59):
Dan and North in Colorado said that soap you're talking
about doesn't work. Oh yeah, yeah, you should still try anyway.

Speaker 7 (33:05):
Yeah, and also Dan, maybe further down that down the
road to me, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (33:13):
You know, every once in a while, it's interesting to
follow up, keep up with like TV celebrities after they've
been out of the spotlight for a while and just
see what they're doing now.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
And I'm wondering if you know what Jeff Peterson is
doing today.

Speaker 7 (33:25):
Oh, I know exactly what he's doing. He's in my
Dan at home unplugged.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
Tell folks who Jeff Peterson is.

Speaker 7 (33:32):
Jeff Pearson was my robot skeleton sidekick on the on
the Late Night Show. It was actually Jeff Pearson is
emblematic of my failure as a late night because.

Speaker 2 (33:42):
Ten years and you're calling it a failure.

Speaker 7 (33:44):
Absolutely, And what it was is this is that what
I thought was I thought, I.

Speaker 1 (33:49):
Want something.

Speaker 7 (33:51):
That will mock the trope of the late night sidekike.
You know, the kind of oh, everything you say, everything,
everything you say, it's funny, you're so clever, it's so
great to be around, and all that. So I thought
it's so robotic and I'll get a robot to do it.

Speaker 1 (34:08):
But but the.

Speaker 7 (34:09):
Problem was that Josh Robert Thompson, who was the guy
behind that, he was the performer who did all the
voices and operated the robot.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
It's so gifted and talented that he.

Speaker 7 (34:21):
Actually became the best, like my money, the best late
night sidekick there ever was. And and so I failed
with my adolescent mocking of the of the of the
sidekick and actually started using one. And I love Jeff
Fish and I particularly am a fan of Josh who
did the job. I mean, really, he doesn't get enough
credit for what he did there.

Speaker 1 (34:41):
It was amazing. Well why is your robot named Jeff Peterson?

Speaker 7 (34:46):
Because I wanted something that didn't have a robot, I
mean because the network was saying, well, we'll call him
mister Bones or Bony Bonerson and stuff, and I'm like, no,
you don't get it.

Speaker 1 (34:57):
I want it just to be a guy.

Speaker 7 (34:59):
He's a guy, he has a personality, and I wanted
a name that was just like a like if you
go to a car rental place and you say I'm
Jeff Peterson, I'd like to rent a car, they'd be like, sure,
can I see your license, and nobody's gonna say me Bonerson.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
You know they're gonna It's just a name. It's just
a generic, everyday name. And what was the for the
name of the guy who created him and did the voice,
Josh Robert Thomson Josh So during the show when when
Jeff Peterson was speaking physically, where was Josh off stage?
He was.

Speaker 7 (35:32):
He was slightly off in a little kind of cubby
hole underneath the audience bleachers. He was in there, and
he operated the robot from an iPad and he spoke
into a microphone and he was doing it in real time.
It just with me and him just doing it right there.
I mean, you've never seen it like that. Guy should
have a wall full of ammys. It's unbelievable what he
was doing. I mean he was juggling, he was spending place,
and he was improvising comedy all at the same time.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
Wow, folks, go.

Speaker 2 (35:56):
Get your tickets for Craig Ferguson.

Speaker 1 (35:57):
He's playing Thursday night, two shows, Fried two show Saturday
night Comedy Works Downtown in the Armor Square. I don't
know that there are very many tickets left, so you
better get over to Comedyworks dot com. Right now and
get them while you can. Craig, it's such a pleasure
to meet you in person. I feel like I know
y'all already because we've talked on the phone and I've
seen you so many places. But yeah, I think we're

(36:18):
probably friends now. Yeah, I think we can say. Does
that mean we can eat a hagus together next time?

Speaker 5 (36:23):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (36:23):
I think you're on your own with the haggis.

Speaker 7 (36:25):
E elite will be the the I have to say
this though, this is true mcweens of Edinburgh who probably
made the higers u ate Okay, in Vega Higgs Company,
they make the vegetarian haggis, and the vegetarian hagis is delicious.

Speaker 1 (36:40):
Really, it really is. I know it sounds weird, it does.
Did you know that it's illegal to import hagis into
the the US?

Speaker 2 (36:47):
But I bet you can import the vegetarian one.

Speaker 7 (36:50):
I think you could probably bring in a vegetarian hagis.

Speaker 1 (36:52):
Yeah, I don't know. You can't bring in a that's caught.

Speaker 7 (36:55):
See what they do is the higas cartels are now
try and tell Land the hagis.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
I think they're coming.

Speaker 7 (37:02):
In through Miami and then up from you know, Tijuana
and San Diego.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
I mean it's a real problem. Yeah, I was actually
this so this part is true and I'm late here,
but I'll see this anyway. So my wife and I
were just in Cartagena, Columbia for our anniversary and her birthday,
and there are these guys. There are a few people
came up to us and offered us, you know, party supplies,
and some people were overtly offering cocaine, which is what
do you expect to be offered in Columbia? And I think,

(37:28):
you know, based on what you're describing, if I had
stayed like one more day, somebody would have been like
whispering to me. I got hagiis were you it? You want?
You want a good time?

Speaker 5 (37:38):
Meat?

Speaker 1 (37:38):
Ways? Would you? Would you like some awful hey? Can
I interest you? Hey?

Speaker 7 (37:44):
Buddy, Jaco out, Jake out sausage sausage chat sheat guts?

Speaker 1 (37:50):
You want some sheet guts buddy?

Speaker 2 (37:52):
He co on.

Speaker 1 (37:54):
I'm gonna have to catch my bread to do the
rest of the show. Go to Comedyworks dot com and
get tickets while you still can't.

Speaker 2 (37:59):
Thanks for me, are Craig leisures?

Speaker 1 (38:01):
Thank you? This is a fascinating change in American policy,
especially under a democratic president. The headline from the New
York Times US approved billions in aid to restart Michigan
nuclear plant, and then the sub had no one has
ever restarted an American nuclear plant that was seemingly.

Speaker 2 (38:22):
Closed for good.

Speaker 1 (38:23):
But with electricity demand spiking, interest is growing. There's a
similar story over at UPI. United States approves one point
five to two billion dollar loan to restart Michigan's.

Speaker 2 (38:34):
Palisades Nuclear Plant. Let me just share a little of
this with you, because this is fascinating.

Speaker 1 (38:40):
Hole Tech hol Tec International agreed to refurbish and restart
the Palisades Nuclear Plant in Covert Township, near the shores
of Lake Michigan, about fifteen miles north of Benton Harbor,
by a year from now October of next year. And
that's pretty amazing, right, They're going to be able to
do all that in a year once it starts, too,
the rural providers said they are ready to draw power

(39:03):
from it. Under the loan, the Federal Department of Agriculture
will provide a company called Wolverine Power Cooperative a six
hundred and fifty million dollars grant to help provide a
quarter of its costs to purchase nuclear power from the plant,
and six hundred and seventy five million dollars to Hoo's
Your Energy, a nonprofit out of Indiana that will also

(39:23):
look to purchase energy from the plant. The CEO of
Wolverine said, the restart of Palisades offers a practical, long
term solution to electric reliability in our state. Hole Tech,
which is a nuclear technology firm based in Jupiter, Florida.

Speaker 2 (39:41):
I thought this part of the story was very interesting.

Speaker 1 (39:44):
They bought the plant in twenty twenty two after it
closed down, and I wonder, I'm guessing. I'm only guessing
because I truly have no idea that they believed that
at the value of dismantling and then selling off what

(40:04):
all the various parts were would be worth whatever they
paid for. And I have no idea what they paid for,
probably little or nothing. If they don't leave the fuel there,
do they, Because no, they shouldn't leave the fuel there, right,
They shouldn't leave the fuel their right. And then actually,
if you're going to use that land for anything else,
you'd probably be spending a lot to clean up, maybe
more than it's worth. If you're you know, but fascinating,

(40:28):
I might take the time to go research that a
little bit more. The fact that they bought the plant
after it was closed, but they had originally planned to
dismantle it. They weren't planning to restart it when they
bought it, but later they started pushing for it to
be reopened.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
And then when the liberal.

Speaker 1 (40:44):
Democratic governor of the state of Michigan, who normally you
would think a liberal Democrat would be against this sort
of thing, but especially somebody who may actually have some
bigger ambitions one day, they want to be on the
right side of his energy thing. So that's Gretchen Whitmer
we're talking about. She supported the reopening and so now

(41:05):
the company plans to inspect the reactor and refurbish the reactor,
and the head of the Department of Energy said, we've
been using all the tools in our tool belt to
support the nuclear energy sector, keep reactors online, bring them back,
and finance advanced reactor deployment as well. Unsurprisingly, the Michigan

(41:26):
chapter of the Sierra Club is unhappy with this. And
this is just an opportune time to remind you that
radical environmental groups don't so much love the planet as
they hate people, right, I mean, nuclear power is the
single best idea to supply energy that probably ever will be,

(41:50):
at least until somebody figures out how to create some
kind of cold fusion or something which people have been
working on for many, many, many years.

Speaker 2 (41:58):
And you hear these.

Speaker 1 (41:58):
Stories from time to time that we just did it
in a lab and it's almost never true, you know,
or or maybe they did it on a scale that
you could only see in a microscope, but you couldn't
really scale it up in any Nuclear power is going
to be the answer, going to be the answer for
the foreseeable future, and and.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
Most people are waking up to it.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
Not the environmental groups, because remember they when they start losing,
when they start having to admit that they've been on
the wrong side of issues, it becomes harder for them
to raise money, which is the only thing that's important
to them. Right. Don't don't think for a second that
the Sierra Club actually gives a rats behind okay about

(42:39):
the environment or anything like that. I mean there, I'm
sure there's some employees there who do, but at the
top levels, what do they care about raising money? Raise
It's in a way, in a way, it's like a
member of Connor and I probably shouldn't go so far
as to say they don't care, but I will. I
think I can say it's not their primary concern, and
I I liken it to a member of Congress, you

(43:02):
have no idea unless you've been involved with this. You know,
at least on the edges, what an insane percentage of
the waking hours of a member of Congress is spent
making phone calls to raise money.

Speaker 2 (43:17):
You would not believe it. And that's just what they
have to.

Speaker 1 (43:21):
Do because otherwise they're going to be out of a job.
And the CEO of Sierra Club is the same way.
So anyway, I'm not at all surprised that these organizations
that claim to care about the planet would rather have
wind and solar fouling thousands and thousands of acres or
thousands of square miles of the United States of America

(43:42):
and killing birds and killing you know, bald eagles. They
don't really, they don't actually care about any of that,
because it's just their religion to or it has been,
to stop nuclear and they thought they owned the Democratic
Party on this issue, but apparently now they don't. Do
you put the trash out, uh, what it's Tuesday? Do

(44:03):
you put your trash out. I can't believe how consistently
you're able to confuse me with this question.

Speaker 2 (44:11):
I don't trash day. I did. I know?

Speaker 1 (44:15):
I I put Wednesday at the new house, and no,
it's it's Thursday at this Tuesday. Really, I'm fairly certain
I'm in so much trouble with my wife if I
forgot to put the trash out.

Speaker 2 (44:33):
Pretty sure it's Tuesday.

Speaker 8 (44:36):
All right?

Speaker 1 (44:36):
I want to, I want to. Now I'm gonna be
distracted all show.

Speaker 2 (44:41):
You're welcome.

Speaker 1 (44:43):
There's a fascinating story, and then an update that I'm
gonna share with you. This was over at The Atlantic.
The first story, written by a reporter named Kristin Brown.
In the headline is remember that DNA you gave twenty
three and me and what.

Speaker 2 (44:58):
The story is talking about.

Speaker 1 (45:00):
Probably not going to read very much of it to you,
but I'll just kind of describe it to you. Twenty
three in me, I think that was the first major
company doing this kind of genetic testing, ancestry kind of
stuff for the general for the general public.

Speaker 2 (45:14):
And I did this years and years ago, and my result, you.

Speaker 1 (45:17):
Know how you did on TV? All the time you
see these people say I didn't know I was forty
percent Eskimo or whatever, right, And look what I learned
about myself. And when I did twenty three and Me,
I will tell you what I learned that I am
exactly what I always thought, like basically one hundred percent
Eastern European jew that's me. But there's actually there's some

(45:42):
other stuff there, the.

Speaker 2 (45:43):
Health related stuff.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
It's not just about it's not just about ancestry, but
potentially markers of risk for certain illnesses and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (45:53):
I found it quite interesting.

Speaker 1 (45:55):
Now, twenty three and Me has been having a lot
of financial trouble. And of course they've they had some
competition that showed up and so on. But they had
some financial trouble last week, or maybe it was the
week before. The entire board of directors quit except for
a woman named.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
Uh, I'm gonna pronounce this wrong.

Speaker 1 (46:15):
When Anne woj Wachisk who is a co founder and
the company of the CEO, so she's the only one
that's left, and she also owns a ton of stock
because she's a co founder, and she said that she's
thinking about selling twenty three and Me. And the purpose
of this reporter's story was to note that twenty three

(46:35):
and me has an immense amount of data about the However,
many millions of people fifteen million people who have you know,
spit into a tube or whatever that was and sent
them their information, so not only the genetic information, but
whatever other information they might have about you that you

(46:56):
know that they gathered from you, beyond whatever they gathered
from your spit. And this article is talking about how
places like twenty three in me and specifically twenty three
in me for this story, are not covered by HIPPA.
There's no privacy outside of just whatever they say their

(47:18):
policies are for your data. And so this article is about, well,
what's going to happen if twenty three and me sells
to some company that decides not to honor twenty three
in me's previous policies. And in the fine print of
those policies it says we can change them whenever we want.
So these are our policies now, but we can change them.

(47:39):
So what would happen if another company bought this and
then decided that they wanted to use your data for
whatever they might want to use it for.

Speaker 2 (47:49):
I'm not necessarily saying criminal.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
Stuff, but stuff that you might consider a little bit
personally invasive and not what you thought you were getting
involved with. And so this is very very interesting story
with this person who's running the company saying she's looking
to sell it. And the update was a tweet from
the same reporter who yesterday noted a filing with the
Securities and Exchange Commission from twenty three and meters in.

Speaker 2 (48:15):
Which the CEO says she is quote.

Speaker 1 (48:18):
No longer open to considering third party took over proposals.
I think that that article probably got to her, and
a lot of people probably got to her having read
the article saying oh, no, you don't.

Speaker 2 (48:32):
And so she.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
Still has to find something because the company is in
real financial trouble and they need money and they know
they do need to merge with somebody. But I guess
at this point the CEO is going to try to
limit it to some kind of acquisition by a company
that will guarantee to maintain.

Speaker 2 (48:49):
The privacy protections.

Speaker 1 (48:50):
Anyway, I thought that was I thought that was pretty fascinating.
If all goes according to plan, when we come back,
we're to be joined by Jack Corrigan to do two
things with us, tell us a little bit about his
reflections on a somewhat disappointing Rocky season, although a great
day at the end with Charlie Blackman's retirement and then
also the death of Pete Rose. Should Pete Rose get
into the Hall of Fame? We are, of course the

(49:12):
home of the Denver of the Yeah, the Denver Brockers,
the Colorado Rockies, and one of the most optimistic guys
I know, Jack Carrigan, the voice of the Rockies, just
wrapped up another Rocky season, which we're going to talk
about a little bit, and we're gonna talk about Charlie
Blackman a little bit, and then I want to talk
about Pete Rose, maybe more than a little bit. And
I have to say, Jack, usually you join me or

(49:33):
me and Mandy on the air at the opening day
every year, and you're just always so optimistic going into
the season. And it hasn't been a wonderful seasons in
recent seasons, but still you just like upbeat every day.
How do you do that and how do you reflect
on this Rocky season?

Speaker 8 (49:52):
Well, first of all, I got a lot of that
from my mother, who is the most uppy person in
the world. I used to tease her and say, Mom,
if we had been on the Titanic. You would have
told us that's just how they give swimming lessons. So
I had that to begin with. But the other thing

(50:14):
Vince Scully said to me once, and I've always you know,
I think I was doing it anyway, but I think
about it more. He said, the beauty of the job
that Jerry Simel and I have is that we're really
each season is a book, and each game is one
of the one hundred and sixty two chapters. You hope

(50:36):
there are more chapters than that, but you just deal
with the story that day, and there's always something interesting
in every broadcast, and you know, somebody makes the spectacular play,
something happens you hadn't seen before, like a balk that
not seeing the winning run as happened Sunday, and it's

(50:57):
stuff you talk about as were the season Ross. I
think the second half was a lot more fun as
we started playing more and more of the kids and
seeing what their potential might be. It got both Jerry
and me excited.

Speaker 2 (51:14):
All right, I want to follow up on a couple
things you mentioned.

Speaker 1 (51:16):
So first, one hundred and sixty two games, that's a lot,
and it just occurred to me as you were saying
that that radio listeners, you know, they just tune in
and you're there, right, and they probably don't think that much.
And why would they really about what's the life of

(51:37):
somebody who does that job? What is that? And then
at the same time that I'm thinking, like, what an
insane life you lead for that part of the year.
You almost implied if I heard you're right that it
wouldn't break your heart if there were more than one
hundred and sixty two games. But maybe you don't want
to go quite that far. But I mean, what is that?

(52:00):
What is that life like for you? To travel? And all?

Speaker 8 (52:05):
Well, you know, certainly we as a baseball team travel
with the ball club, and we travel different than the
normal traveler, and that you know, we're not going through security.
It's a chartered flight. There are you know, we still
have security on site, but it's you know, it's different

(52:27):
than the person that has to go through all that
all the major airports make travelers go through now. But
you know, there's no glamour to it, but there's no
it's just how you commute. I mean, you don't really
think too much of that, and you get into the

(52:48):
rhythm of the preparation and what you're doing each particular.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
Day home and road.

Speaker 8 (52:54):
I mean, you might not have the travel part of it, ross,
but I mean you go through a routine, you know,
both before a broadcast and after a broadcast, and you
get into a rhythm and you enjoy the rhythm, and
when there's time off, you appreciate it. But you know
when when I tell people, I mean I love baseball,

(53:15):
obviously doing it this long, I love sports and in general,
but I mean, think about it. I go to the ballpark.
They don't ask me for a ticket, They just check
my you know, my media pass. I walk into the clubhouse,
I walk out onto the field, I go upstairs and
sit with Jerry and Jesse Thomas, two of my best friends,

(53:38):
and sit and watch a ball game and go home
and afterwards and get ready to do it the next day.
And you know what they pay me for that? Ross.
You know, why wouldn't you get excited.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
I've met your lovely bride.

Speaker 1 (53:52):
Is she kind of happy to have you away a
lot for at least part of the year and get
a little time to herself.

Speaker 8 (53:58):
Yeah? You know, I I think probably in my career,
you know, I will finally step away from doing this
when it's time for her, when she's finally had enough
of a baseball schedule running our lives. But she also

(54:19):
knows too, you know. With our kids grown in families
of their own, I mean, she gets to make a
lot more trips than she did when our family was younger,
and we do have the off time I think for her.
She said, well, you know, I'd like some time to
take a summer vacation. I said, well, you know, that's

(54:40):
what everybody vacations.

Speaker 1 (54:41):
They're clouded.

Speaker 8 (54:42):
Then I like the fall and winter vacations. Just have
to make sure you go to the southern hemisphere to
get some warm weather.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
That's all that's dude.

Speaker 1 (54:51):
My wife and I went to Cartagena, Columbia a week ago.

Speaker 8 (54:55):
Yeah that's what I heard.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
Wow, I know what.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
You're talking about. And it was loath and right. The
kids are back in.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
School, so the airfare is cheaper and the hotels are
cheaper and the place is less crowded.

Speaker 2 (55:06):
I'm so completely with you on that.

Speaker 1 (55:09):
Just say whatever you want to say about Charlie Blackman.

Speaker 8 (55:16):
Ultimate professional. I just loved how he went about his business.
You know, Charlie was engaging, had a unique sense of humor.
The beard and the mullet haircut were a wonderful disguise
for him, for somebody who is almost brilliant from a

(55:37):
baseball perspective, and how he looks at the game. I
just loved watching how he went about his business because
he he's what we all would want in our own
lives and with the people we worked with. He was
consistent and he was genuine And when you have those
two elements attached to who you are, you're a good dude.

(56:02):
I mean, you're a real good dude. And Charlie fit
that for sure. And oh, by the way, you know,
maybe the third best Rockies player ever to wear a
Colorado uniform and maybe second best in terms of longevity.
You know, you go, Todd Helton, you appreciate what Larry

(56:23):
Walker was as a Rocky and elsewhere in his career,
and then you get Chuck Nasty fourteen years of being
genuinely consistent.

Speaker 1 (56:35):
It was a remarkable thing to watch all those years.
These days, I think in almost every professional sport it's
very unusual to see a long career with one team,
and so that was that was pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (56:47):
And if I heard right, and.

Speaker 1 (56:48):
You can you've probably heard this too, so you can
tell me if I if I heard it right or
if I heard it wrong. I thought a reporter asked
him if he was gonna shave now, and I thought
his answer was he's got to think about it a
bit because his wife has never seen him without a beard.

Speaker 8 (57:02):
Yeah, it was a great Charlie answer. I think if
people saw the video from that news conference, as the
question was asked, before he even spoke, he looked over
at Ashley, his wife, with one of those husband like look,
and I would think it may not have happened this week,

(57:26):
but it will happen sooner rather than later. Let's put
it that way.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
Just for listeners. Let me just interject something different here
for a second, and that I'm going to come back
to after I talk a little bit more with Jack.
But Israel has reported that Iran has launched missiles at Israel.
Fox News is reporting that missiles have been intercepted over Israel.
The Israeli Defense Force has urged Israelis to go to

(57:54):
protected spaces if they hear sirens. There really isn't much
more to add than that right now, anyway, but I
wanted to make sure you got that while it's happening,
and I'll come back to it a bit a bit
later on. So, Jack, I was watching baseball as a
kid in the in the seventies and as a Navy
brat moving around all the time. You don't really have

(58:18):
necessarily a home team based on where you were born,
and you kind of just come to like a team.
And it's sort of not fair in a way because
it's not like, you know, you live in Cleveland and
you're stuck having to be a Browns fan. So, you know,
in the seventies, I was a Steelers fan with Terry Bradshaw,
I was a Cincinnati Reds fan. I mean, why wouldn't

(58:38):
you be right? And Pete Rose was, I mean, the
best of all time many many things in baseball, and
yet there's this cloud over him and he passed away yesterday.
Before we get to the Hall of Fame discussion, I
just want to hear anything you have to say about
Pete Rose.

Speaker 8 (58:59):
Well, you know, in peat case, he was in many
ways the ultimate overachiever. I mean, he sort of willed
himself into being the number one guy all time in
terms of bass hits in baseball. You know, his nickname

(59:19):
Charlie Hustle was actually a derogatory comment from Whitey Ford
during spring training in Florida when he hit a ground
ball to second base and you know, and ran all
the way down, you know, to first at top speed

(59:39):
to be you know, thrown out easily. And and Ford
was at the end of his career and you know,
the grizzly Bett and all of that, and he just
you know, derisively said, hey, hey, hey, Charlie hustle, keep
it going, you know. But it wasn't meant in positive terms.
But Pete, who probably till the day he died, you know,

(01:00:03):
had a chip on his shoulder, and that just added
to the chip, added to the the motivation. And you know,
for me, being a native Clevelander.

Speaker 1 (01:00:14):
I wasn't sorry about my Cleveland Brown's comment before then.

Speaker 8 (01:00:19):
Well there's unfortunately a lot of accuracy to that. But
you know, we always had a little bit of of
ill will towards Pete because he basically changed the career
of Ray Fossey in that you know, collision at home
plate in the All Star Game. I mean, Ray hurt

(01:00:40):
his shoulder and really wasn't the same player again when
at the time he was considered, you know, the best
young catchers, so we always had that out for Pete.
A little bit long suffering Cleveland baseball fans, but I
mean you had to marvel at how we played the game.
You had to marvel at his relentless pursuit, I mean

(01:01:05):
early on in his career. And he was going to
play until you took the uniform off his back, until
he was number one in something in baseball. That's what
drove him. I mean, he was he was a maniacal
competitor who had to win, and that was part of
his problem too.

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
All right, So two sort of related questions, and pardon
the ignorance of my question, but did did the beginning
of your career overlap with the end of his career?

Speaker 2 (01:01:36):
Did you ever broadcast when he was playing? And did
you ever meet him?

Speaker 8 (01:01:43):
I have not met him. I started in eighty five,
and you know, and Pete, it was managing in Cincinnati
during that time. But Inner League didn't start until ninety seven.
And in the early part of my time with Cleveland,

(01:02:04):
we were training in Tucson, and by the time they
went to Florida for a while in the mid nineties,
Pete had already finished his time with the Red so
never never crossed paths with him, obviously, heard lots of
stories from many different people.

Speaker 1 (01:02:25):
So now that he's gone, now that he's passed away,
the remaining discussion is the Hall of Fame discussion. Of course,
he was banned from baseball for life for gambling, although,
as a listener points out, like there were other not
so great aspects of Pete Rose's character.

Speaker 2 (01:02:43):
This listener, you know, calls him sleazy. I want to
be a.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
Little a little careful of the guy who just passed away,
But as far as I know, he never bet against
his own team.

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
I do think that makes a difference.

Speaker 1 (01:02:58):
But I also think think everybody understands baseball players are
not supposed to be betting on baseball. How do you
think about the importance of this baseball thing as it
relates to whether he should never be considered for the
Hall of Fame?

Speaker 8 (01:03:15):
Well, you know, the one thing ross from rookie ball
up to the big leagues for a player you know
immediately ruled twenty one D because there are at least
three posters with the information about that rule regarding gambling

(01:03:38):
on baseball and what the punishment is going to be.
So you can't get around that, even saying he you know,
he only betted on the only place bets on this
or place bets on that. The rule is the rule,

(01:03:59):
and and everybody knows the rule in that regard, and
gambling can be a disease for a lot of people,
and I think it was for Peter. There's no question
of that based on his competitive nature. But you can't
get around the fact that no matter how he bet,
he did violate the rule. And I think the denial

(01:04:23):
of betting was what hurt him as much as anything
in the process in terms of the suspension and over
the years in terms of there's no doubt he qualifies
as you know, one of the greatest, you know, hitters
in the history of the game. But you know that

(01:04:44):
if you're going to have rules, you have rules. So
it's so hard. I heard somebody said, well, he violated
the rules as a manager, not as a player. So
you could put him in as a player and suspend
him for life as a manager, But did he bet
on games as a player that you know, it's where

(01:05:04):
there's smoke, there's fire, you know that cliche. It makes
it very difficult. Perhaps at some point it's going to happen,
but I kind of knew it was not going to
happen in his lifetime, just sensing the atmosphere, the attitude
of the people who would have included him through the
Veterans Committee voting.

Speaker 1 (01:05:25):
Yeah. And I want to just for a second, hear
take on a listener question. I'll give my quick answer,
and then you can give your quick answer. You don't
have much time left ross what's wrong with betting on yourself?

Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
And I'll just throw out a hypothetical to this listener.

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
First of all, separate from Jack's most important point, which
is that's against the rules. But also imagine that you're
managing a baseball team and you bet on a game
for your team to win, and maybe you change some
things around, and maybe you bring in a pitcher who
wasn't going to pitch that game so that you think
you have a better chance of winning. But that pitcher

(01:05:57):
was supposed to pitch tomorrow's game, and now he doesn't
pitch tomorrow's game. So maybe you win the game that
you brought the guy in to pitch early, but maybe
he was a little too tired and doesn't even win
that one, and then he's not available to pitch the
next day, so you lose the next game. That's just
one example. You really have to think. You know a
couple of layers here. Do you want to add anything

(01:06:19):
to that?

Speaker 8 (01:06:20):
Jack? Well, yeah, just you know, you could say what
if the player gets hurt? I mean, it still is
a team game, and even more so from a manager's perspective.
I talk with Bud Black, both on the air and
just in conversation multiple times about one of the great
challenges as a manager is not only you want to

(01:06:43):
win that particular game each night, no question, but you
also have to consider its impact in the bigger picture.
And when the example that you just gave takes place,
you've forgotten about the big picture, or from a baseball perspective,

(01:07:04):
you've forgotten about the team. Now it's just about you.

Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:07:09):
Great, you want to win, but you want to win
for yourself. You're not winning for the greater good of
the rest of those players in uniform and everybody associated
with that team.

Speaker 1 (01:07:22):
Last question for you, then, if you were king and
you could make the decision that will last forever, would
Pete Rose be allowed consideration for the Hall of Fame
now that he's dead?

Speaker 8 (01:07:38):
I would say yes, just to sort of make a
final decision because it has always lingered. For all these
years it has lingered. Will they changed their mind? Will
they not? You know, different people and all that I
knew nothing was going to happen while he was alive,
because Pete would have used it for his personal moment,

(01:08:03):
if you will beyond you know, look at how Todd
Helton handled his induction and all the people that he
recognized and thanked for what had taken place. It would
have been a soapbox for Pete and it probably wouldn't
have been pretty. So that's why it never would have
happened while he was alive. Yeah, I think sometime here,

(01:08:25):
at one point, we've got to put it to bed
once and for all.

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
Jack Corrigan, his voice of the Colorado Rockies, along with
his broadcasting partner Jerry Shemmel, Thanks so much for taking
the time with us, Jack, who was a fabulous conversation
as always my pleasure.

Speaker 8 (01:08:39):
Ross. I look forward to now that I do have
some time, you'll go out and grab a cup of coffee.

Speaker 2 (01:08:44):
I'd love to thank you.

Speaker 8 (01:08:45):
Jack.

Speaker 2 (01:08:46):
All right, ro see you all right, We're gonna take.

Speaker 1 (01:08:48):
A quick break and when we come back I'm gonna
give you the latest as I'm gonna do as much
research as I can during the break on what's going on.
I guess I would say over Israel right now, Fox
News is report that missiles have been intercepted over Israel,
missiles launched from Iran. Keep it here on KOA, we
need to talk about what's going on in and over

(01:09:08):
Israel right now. You may recall that Iran launched missiles
at Israel once before, several months ago. They really they
telegraphed it well in advance, and there was even some
conversation that they didn't want to hurt Israel very much,
they just kind of wanted to put on a show.
I don't know if that's true or not, but in

(01:09:29):
any case, they did certainly telegraph well in advance, and
it allowed not just Israel's defenses to prepare, even though
they're really already prepared, but it also allowed a bunch
of aircraft from various nations, Arab nations, the United States,
the UK, I'm not sure who else, to get in
the air and shoot Iranian missiles out of the air. So,

(01:09:54):
you know, there's been some wondering over the last several
hours as it's been as it's been reported that Iran
might launch rockets at Israel. Well now they have and
and people were wondering, well, almost no rockets got through

(01:10:15):
last time. What's gonna happen this time? Well, partly it
depends on what they send. It depends on how many
they send. And some of these pictures right now, like
if you ever saw a science fiction movie about a
media about to hit Earth and then and then suddenly,

(01:10:36):
you know, somebody, somebody saves the day. You know, John McClain,
Rice Willis exactly saves the day, gets up there and
destroys the media, and like hundreds and hundreds of pieces
of you know, glowing meteorites come into the the Earth's
atmosphere and hit Earth and do a lot of damage

(01:10:58):
to whatever they hit, but at least the planet isn't destroyed.
You know, it's hundreds and hundreds of small things rather
than one insanely enormous thing. That's what the video over
Israel looks like right now. In any one picture, you
might see a dozen or two rockets coming in. They're glowing,
and some have gotten through. And I'm looking at Twitter

(01:11:21):
right now, some people reporting from Israel. One person showing
these Iranian rockets flying over the Western Wall, which is
the holiest place in Judaism, and it's right next to
the second or third holiest place in Islam, the Temple
mount area. And so these Iranian rockets are coming in
and some rockets have hit in Israel. It looks like

(01:11:45):
there's at least one hit to a building in Tel Aviv.
I mean in tel Aviv, not just in Israel, in
tel Aviv, and some.

Speaker 2 (01:11:51):
Have gotten through.

Speaker 1 (01:11:52):
One person, I don't know who this person is says,
is Iran is done after this, and he doesn't mean
he doesn't mean done like they're not gonna attack anymore.
He means done like they're gonna be in They're gonna
be in big trouble. Iran is done after this. They
were probably hoping none got through. Well they did, and

(01:12:13):
it's about to get real. And then you've got Dave Rubin,
who is a major right of center influencer. He's got
a million something I think close to two million followers,
And Dave Rubin says there is literally no response from Israel,
which would be unwarranted. In other words, what he's saying

(01:12:34):
is anything Israel does in retaliation against Iran at this
point would be would be warranted based on this attack.
And of course it's gonna take hours, at least probably hours,
right listen, So there's a nine hour difference between Denver

(01:12:59):
and Israel. So it's eight pm there right now. It's
it's mostly dark. Maybe there's just a tiny, tiny hint
of light left in the sky, but it's basically dark,
you can imagine eight pm. And so it's probably gonna
take a little time, maybe through till sun up tomorrow morning,
to be able to look at whatever the damage is

(01:13:20):
of the of the various rockets that did get through.

Speaker 2 (01:13:25):
And then and Israel is.

Speaker 1 (01:13:26):
Going to have to decide what it's going to do, right,
is it going to attack.

Speaker 2 (01:13:30):
Iran's oil facilities.

Speaker 1 (01:13:32):
Is it going to try to figure out where Ayatolajameini
is and and take him out. Is it going to
attack Iranian ships? I mean, Iran doesn't have important allies
at this point, right. The Hamas is gone effectively, Hezballah
is close to gone effectively. Yeah, they still have a

(01:13:54):
lot of rockets, but they've got no leaders. And Israel
has taken out a lot of rockets, and Israel is
going into southern Lebanon to try to take out even more,
not just of the rockets, but of the launchers and
of the launch locations and of the storage of all
these things. And so what does Iran have. Iran has
the Houthis, and they've got a few missiles.

Speaker 2 (01:14:16):
That they could probably launch at Iran.

Speaker 1 (01:14:19):
But will hey, I'm guessing the Houthi's probably will actually
let me just do a quick tangent on this. The
Houthis have been attacking shipping from non Western countries UH
for months and months now and are causing a significant

(01:14:39):
amount of trade to have to take routes that are
much much longer and much much more expensive. And they're
raising the cost of living for people around the world.
And I think it's unbelievable. It's insane that the United
States has not led a coalition of willing allies, which

(01:15:01):
cannon should include Arab countries, but also England and France
and Australia. But again, Saudi Arabia, maybe get Egypt if
they would, and go destroy the Houthis. Go do to
the Houthies. What Israel just did to come ofs or
what Israel is doing right now? It has Belah, Why
are we letting these people continue to threaten global trade.

(01:15:23):
It's insane anyway, Those the houthis might they've lobbed a
couple of rockets at Israel in the recent in the
recent past, the rockets didn't get through. But you know,
Iran doesn't have any other significant proxies to help right now.
They've got also a few militias in Iraq that could
try to lob some Israels some rockets at Israel.

Speaker 2 (01:15:43):
Who knows.

Speaker 1 (01:15:45):
We'll see and we'll probably know Israel's response.

Speaker 2 (01:15:50):
Look, Israel could play this two ways.

Speaker 1 (01:15:52):
They could fire back right now, because maybe they've been
prepared in terms of planning, been prepared for this, and
they say, okay, if Iran launches against us, these are
gonna be our targets and wanted to take them out.
Maybe they want to wait and actually do a little
bit of coordination with.

Speaker 2 (01:16:06):
The United States. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:16:08):
Maybe they want to wait, you know, an extra day
or two and make Iran think that no retaliation is coming.

Speaker 2 (01:16:14):
I have no idea.

Speaker 1 (01:16:15):
There's so many different ways you could play this game.

Speaker 2 (01:16:18):
But I'll tell you what I agree with these.

Speaker 1 (01:16:20):
People who say that Iran must be severely punished for this.
You cannot allow this to go unresponded to. This is
a country that doesn't border Israel launching hundreds of missiles
at Israel, and again, some of them have hit targets

(01:16:41):
in Tel Aviv and I don't know where else.

Speaker 2 (01:16:43):
And Iran needs to be punished.

Speaker 1 (01:16:46):
And whenever you hear somebody saying we need to de
escalate Israel and Iran needs to de escalate, you need to,
in your mind tell them to shut the bleep up.

Speaker 2 (01:16:59):
We don't need to de escalate.

Speaker 1 (01:17:01):
What needs to happen here is the US and all
civilized countries need to escalate and destroy the Iranian regime
now because they are not that far from getting a
nuclear weapon, and can you imagine what those people would
do if they had a nuclear weapon. We're gonna see

(01:17:21):
how this plays out over coming days. It's it's a
serious situation, but at this point, I actually think the
biggest risk is weak politicians trying to force Israel to
stop doing what needs to be done, when what really
should happen is, as Noah Rofman put it writing for

(01:17:42):
National Review, Joe Biden should figure out that.

Speaker 2 (01:17:45):
He should join the side.

Speaker 1 (01:17:47):
He's on things about the upcoming election in the next
In the next segment, let me take a moment here
and just mention that tonight is the vice presidential debate,
and it's potentially important more than most vice presidential debates
will be. First of all, I think that more people
have interest, even if it's sort of a negative interest

(01:18:10):
in both of these vice presidential candidates jd Vance for
the Republicans and Tim Waltz for the Democrats than usual.
Jd Vance is the least popular vice presidential running mate
in modern history, and I don't think Tim Walls is
especially popular either, but certainly more than more than jd Vance.

Speaker 2 (01:18:32):
I don't think Tim Waltz is.

Speaker 1 (01:18:33):
A significant negative for the Democrats. I think jd Vance
at least was a negative and maybe still is. There's
gonna be a couple things to keep an eye on
in tonight's debate the CBS the CBS News presidential debate,
which we will be carrying here on KOA starting at

(01:18:55):
seven o'clock our time, and that is you might hear
a debate start with a question that isn't about economics
because of what's going on in the Middle East right now.

Speaker 2 (01:19:06):
And that'll be.

Speaker 1 (01:19:07):
Interesting because both of those guys served in the military.
Right they both served in the military. And I know
there's this whole debate about whether Tim Waltz was actually
in combat, but that's not really the important thing at
the moment, Right he was. He was in the reserves
for twenty something years and got to the highest enlisted rank.
He retired one rank below that, but while he was

(01:19:29):
in he got to command sergeant major I believe it was.
And so these are both people who have done pretty
serious thinking about war, and it's going to be very
interesting to hear their answer to if Look, if I
were moderating that debate, my first question to these guys
would be, what do you think the proper United States
reaction should be to Iran's missile attack on Israel, And

(01:19:53):
especially in the bigger context of Iran being the source
of money and weapons for both Hamasa and Hesbelah. Iran
is the most evil force in the world as in
terms of nations, and so I think that maybe will
be the first question it it'll be really interesting. Now,

(01:20:13):
these guys are both I think, pretty good debaters. They're
both better than the top of the ticket, right. Jd
Vance is a much better speaker and much better debater
than Donald Trump. And Tim Waltz is a much better speaker,
and I'm guessing will be a much better debater than

(01:20:33):
Kamala Harris. And that's also going to make this to
make this an interesting thing, Tim.

Speaker 2 (01:20:39):
Waltz, his goal.

Speaker 1 (01:20:43):
Needs to be to appeal to white working class men, right,
That's where Trump's strength is. And on paper, Tim Waltz
is a decent guy to do that, right as a
as a veteran and a high school coach and a
Midwestern aweshow kind of god. Now in real life, he's
a far left tool who I don't trust at all.

(01:21:06):
I mean, he's he's as far left as you can
like I don't know if I would quite call him socialist,
but maybe like he's as far left as you can
imagine a person being and still be able to win
a vice presidency of the United States of America. And
remember when when Kamala Harris, I mean, he's equal to

(01:21:29):
what Kamala Harris was at the time that she won,
I suppose, but Joe Biden was running as a moderate,
and Joe Biden won running as a moderate.

Speaker 2 (01:21:36):
Kamala Harris got.

Speaker 1 (01:21:37):
In even though she was clearly a leftist and this
part of the reason that Kamala Harris is now trying
to run as a moderate even though everyone knows she's not.
Or maybe instead of knowing that she's actually a leftist,
maybe you know that she doesn't believe in anything. But
those are your only two choices. So tonight watch Tim
Waltz try to appeal to the white work class.

Speaker 2 (01:22:02):
And try and be prepared for.

Speaker 1 (01:22:07):
Jd Vance, especially with the current news, to focus on
Harris being a continuation of Biden Harris, which is a
weak administration that has emboldened weakness by the enemies of
America such as Iran and such as Vladimir Putin. Although

(01:22:31):
it's gonna be a tricky one for jd Vance because
he seems a little bit of a Putin fanboy, so
it's gonna be tricky, but he's gonna have to argue
that the world will be a safer place with Donald
Trump as president.

Speaker 2 (01:22:43):
And one last thing, and then.

Speaker 1 (01:22:44):
When we come back, we're gonna we're gonna do a
little bit of interesting election stuff. I to the extent
that there is this level of instability in the world
and a war going on, I think it helps Donald
Trump politically. I do I think it helps him politically.
I think people have I've seen him more as a
figure of strength, and see Biden Harris is more of

(01:23:04):
a figure of weakness.

Speaker 2 (01:23:06):
And everything that Biden Harris has done in.

Speaker 1 (01:23:08):
Foreign policy, for example, to pull out of Afghanistan and
just being there when Vladimir Putin attacked Ukraine, everything about
Biden Harris shows weakness. So that's gonna be something that
Tim Walls will also overcome.

Speaker 2 (01:23:22):
You'll be able to listen to it on KOA.

Speaker 1 (01:23:24):
This evening starting at seven, and of course I'll talk
about it a lot tomorrow when we come back. We're
gonna do some very interesting election stuff, in particular how
secure are our elections in Colorado. Also coming up in
the next several minutes is this hour's chance to win
one thousand bucks.

Speaker 2 (01:23:39):
Keep it here on Kiowa. Thanks for spending some time
with me.

Speaker 1 (01:23:42):
There have not been major changes in the last several
minutes that I've seen about the Iranian missile launch attack
into Israel. President Biden did say that America stands ready
to aid Israel's defense, and he did order the American
military to shoot down Iranian missiles. We're targeting Israel. According

(01:24:02):
to the White House. So we will see what comes
next and whether the President, you know, wants to get
involved with doing something more aggressive against Iran, but there
isn't more information on that right now, So we are
going to switch gears. And I'm very pleased to welcome
back to the show. It's it's been much too long.
I'm very very pleased to welcome back Amber McReynolds. Amber

(01:24:22):
has done lots and lots of work on elections.

Speaker 2 (01:24:25):
A former election official, she also has.

Speaker 1 (01:24:28):
Some very specific experience related to the US Postal Service
and their role in elections, and we have a lot
of things to talk about today.

Speaker 2 (01:24:38):
So Amber, thanks so much for being here.

Speaker 4 (01:24:43):
Thanks for having me. Ross.

Speaker 1 (01:24:44):
So, there are some folks out there, former Republican candidate
for governor Heidiganal being one of them, who are raising
some issues about potential risks, threats.

Speaker 2 (01:24:56):
To election security.

Speaker 1 (01:24:59):
And they're not saying there has been fraud based on
these things, but they seem to be saying we should
be aware of these things and try to fix them,
patch them, whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:25:11):
So I want to just go through some of these
with you, and you.

Speaker 1 (01:25:16):
Know, at some point if you want to say, well,
I just don't know that much about this particular aspect,
then that's fine too.

Speaker 2 (01:25:21):
I want to start with a technical one.

Speaker 1 (01:25:24):
She's been talking about how some voting machines in Colorado,
and I think it's a small minority of them, but
some still have Wi Fi components in them that theoretically
are disabled kind of sort of through software, and she's
arguing they're not secure. They might not be secure enough

(01:25:47):
from bad actors who find a way to turn the
Wi Fi back on and then hack the machines.

Speaker 5 (01:25:55):
So first and foremost, I mean, the most important thing
about elections broadly, whether it be on the policy front
or on the technical front and security, is that there
is an entire ecosystem that protects various points in the
process all the way, you know, starting with voter registration

(01:26:16):
and how voters sign up to be voters, all the
way through to the end of the process that includes
audits at the end of the election. And you know,
these systems now largely in Colorado. One of the significant improvements,
frankly that has occurred nationwide is the move away from
proprietary hardware that kind of came about after Florida two

(01:26:39):
thousand and lots of you know, entities around the nation
bought basically proprietary hardware that was super expensive, difficult to manage,
wasn't as accessible and secure as it should have been,
didn't have the paper ballot as the core record in
the election, you know, So all that's gone right and
the newer systems that in fact, every Colorado votes, the

(01:27:03):
paper ballot is the official record. In fact, most Colorados
vote on a hand marked paper ballot because they're voting
on a mail ballot.

Speaker 4 (01:27:10):
That's mailed to them.

Speaker 5 (01:27:12):
And so these systems now are what's considered off the shelf,
So it's different equipment and then software that is utilized
to scan the pieces of paper, and all of this
equipment and software goes through not only rigorous federal testing,

(01:27:35):
so there's independent testing labs associated with the federal level
that follow the standards that certify systems for use, that
go through things like testing vulnerabilities around Wi Fi or
other uses.

Speaker 4 (01:27:50):
And then the State of Colorado additionally.

Speaker 5 (01:27:52):
So on top of the federal testing, the State of
Colorado utilizes independent testing labs to you know, identify any
potential vulnerabilities prior to any system being certified and prior
to any system being deployed.

Speaker 4 (01:28:06):
So all that happens.

Speaker 5 (01:28:08):
Like well before any system is even utilized, and then
when we get to an actual live election, in addition
to all that testing that happens prior, then there's additional
logic and accuracy testing and additional testing that happens prior
to the election that both parties and observers can can
view and watch, and that all of that is designed

(01:28:30):
to make sure the systems are doing what they're supposed
to be doing in terms of tally, in terms of
counting and scanning, and also any identify any potential issues
that might need to be mitigated.

Speaker 4 (01:28:44):
And then you.

Speaker 5 (01:28:45):
Go through the election, there's security parameters around protecting all
of that infrastructure and that equipment, bipartisan teams that run
all of this, and then finally after the election, all
of that is tested yet again with with the canvas
and the certification and then the risk limiting audits, the
advanced audits that Colorado has broadly deployed across the state.

Speaker 4 (01:29:09):
So so so I say.

Speaker 5 (01:29:11):
All of that really to just point out all the
different steps that occur to make sure that these systems
are in fact secure priority to deployment, and then also
throughout the election process to ensure that everything is operating
as it should, and that's what we call the security
ecosystem that supports the broad election process.

Speaker 1 (01:29:34):
Okay, so I get all that, and that's and that's
great framing for the whole conversation. But so so let's
go back to focusing a little bit on some of
these very specific things that Heidi has brought up and
some other people have mentioned. And I'm going to play
Devil's advocate a little bit. My gut instinct on most
of these things, maybe not all. I think some of
these maybe are real problems. My gut instinct, though, mostly

(01:29:58):
is one be careful about this. So I think some
things that are raised as vulnerabilities could potentially be vulnerabilities.
I think the problem right now in our society is
that so many people, especially people have a particular political persuasion,
will hear about a potential vulnerability and they will automatically
jump in their minds too. Well, then it must have

(01:30:20):
been used by so and so to change the outcome
of the election. And that's where I think we have
an enormous problem. And that's why it's especially important to
me that even if something is a very low risk,
is a vulnerability even if it's you know, you know,
more theoretical than likely, I'd like to patch it just

(01:30:43):
so we can have more confidence in our elections. I
do think there are people out there, and for the record,
I don't think Heidi is one of them, but I
think there are people out there who make a living
causing people to not trust our elections. And so if
there are these things that are maybe small risks, do
you think we should patch them up anyway?

Speaker 4 (01:31:06):
Yeah, So a couple of things on that. First.

Speaker 5 (01:31:08):
You know, as a former election official myself, I believe
in a continuous improvement model, not just for elections and
policy and voter access, but also for the security perspective.

Speaker 4 (01:31:19):
And every security expert from.

Speaker 5 (01:31:22):
The federal level all the way down to the local
level would say the exact same thing that you can
never be you know, the environment, the threat environment is
constantly evolving, which means we have to constantly evolve and
continue to improve and continue to you know, go actively
address any vulnerabilities that are identified.

Speaker 4 (01:31:42):
And so, and I agree with you, you're exactly right.

Speaker 5 (01:31:45):
That there are many that have sort of made a
living off of conspiracy theorists have made a living off
of creating fear in the voting populace wrongfully by the way,
because we do have many midig factors even to address
the tiniest and most unlikely you know, vulnerabilities.

Speaker 4 (01:32:05):
But the narrative has moved away from.

Speaker 5 (01:32:09):
Continuous improvement and continuing to get better and better and
better and continue to be proactive about mitigation on risks
to you know, oh, that means that the whole system
is flawed, right, And that's the argument that some would
have you believe, and it is it is very important
that we, you know, bring people back to frankly, the

(01:32:31):
way that you know, things used to operate prior to
twenty twenty, which is that you know, we could have
a conversation and try to fix you know, things that
were perceived to be perceived or or or or actual.

Speaker 4 (01:32:44):
Right either way of vulnerability.

Speaker 5 (01:32:47):
And so Colorado has actually been really good at proactive
engagement with security.

Speaker 4 (01:32:54):
Experts, you know, continuing to improve. In fact, many of.

Speaker 5 (01:32:58):
The counties, most of the counties in Colorado have actually upgraded.

Speaker 4 (01:33:05):
Various software versions.

Speaker 5 (01:33:06):
This is mostly in the county the counties with the
Dominion software they've upgraded with that. And now that vulnerability
that you mentioned, and that heidis I has has talked
about is actually not possible because of you know, one
of the software versions that has been updated. Not every
single county is on that same system, and not every

(01:33:29):
single county has upgraded.

Speaker 4 (01:33:32):
But what's important is first that is.

Speaker 5 (01:33:35):
This this issue has never been exploited before, and part
of the reason it hasn't is because of the other
security measures that are in place that I mentioned that
we have to either mitigate it, identify it, prevent it,
which is the most important thing that you want to
have in a security posture.

Speaker 4 (01:33:52):
But I think that that.

Speaker 5 (01:33:53):
Because some counties have you know, upgraded versions, and the
state has upgraded and deployed a new version to address
those sorts of things, that's actually a demonstration of an evolving,
you know, thread environment where you're constantly addressing things as
they either come up or.

Speaker 4 (01:34:09):
As new threats to merge.

Speaker 5 (01:34:11):
And we have to be in that kind of environment
rightly with the entire system.

Speaker 1 (01:34:15):
All right, So let's give me give me slightly shorter answers,
just in the interest of time. And I know you're
you're you're a big thinker, and you think at the
policy level a lot, but I'd like you to try
to stick with me on focusing on the micro a
little bit. Okay, So, so, uh, with the upgraded systems
that you're describing, my understanding is that the reason the

(01:34:38):
vulnerability doesn't exist in those systems that have been upgraded
is because the hardware is not is not in those
systems anymore. In addition to the software being upgrade, I
think it's kind of like part of the same upgrade
removes the actual Wi Fi capability.

Speaker 2 (01:34:53):
From the computer. Is that right?

Speaker 1 (01:34:54):
Is that your understanding?

Speaker 5 (01:34:56):
Yeah, So the there's Wi Fi free components is what
it's called.

Speaker 4 (01:35:01):
So basically that is gone right.

Speaker 5 (01:35:03):
And so in addition to the software making sure that
that component is not on in the systems that still
have it, this goes one step further where the capability
is gone right.

Speaker 1 (01:35:16):
So I think a lot of folks altogether, I think
a lot of folks, again of a particular political persuasion,
are very concerned about voting equipment having any Wi Fi
capability in them. And even though I strongly suspect, as
you said, that it is a vulnerability that has never
been exploited, that it would be best to for counties

(01:35:40):
that still have machines that have Wi Fi capability to
upgrade and get rid of it just for increasing confidence.
Would you agree with that statement?

Speaker 5 (01:35:51):
Well, long term yes, but you know you can't sort
of do that right now. Right, So the other security
measures that have been place and you know for a
long period of time that that prevent the use of
that and and and disable that functionality is in place,
and then and it has worked over time.

Speaker 4 (01:36:11):
But yes, long term it at the right.

Speaker 5 (01:36:14):
Timing obviously between elections and things like that, yes, it
would make it would make sense for counties to leverage
then the upgraded and new version.

Speaker 1 (01:36:26):
Uhuh. A writer named Bob Cooper, writing for The Rocky
Mountain Voice, has a piece that I know you've seen
about undeliverable ballots, and the the issue seems to be
what mister Cooper thinks is insufficient tracking or retention of

(01:36:46):
undeliverable male ballots. And you know where they end up
and and why in some situations, it seems like two
different parallel sets of records that theoretically would be keeping
track of ballots that get sent to someone where it
can't be delivered and then they get sent back that
these ledgers don't match, and so you know he's questioning well,

(01:37:12):
what's happening to these ballots? And you have more expertise
with the postal side of this than a lot of people,
So what's your take on this issue.

Speaker 5 (01:37:21):
Yeah, well, first, with our system, so the move that
we made in twenty thirteen with proactive delivery of mail
ballots to only active voters in the state of Colorado
did a number of things that made our system better
and far more secure.

Speaker 4 (01:37:39):
And one of those is actually.

Speaker 5 (01:37:41):
The automatic address updates that the legislature passed as part
of the package, and that just means that now Colorado
is proactive at updating addresses using National Change of Address data,
using motor vehicle data, using other system data that keeps
our address library the cleanest of any state in the country.
So we so are on deliverables have actually gone down

(01:38:03):
significantly because we do so much on the front end
to make sure that addresses are correct.

Speaker 4 (01:38:09):
The second thing is with the post office.

Speaker 5 (01:38:11):
There are various federal laws that govern the security sanctity
of the mail and also our our facilities, and the
Postal Inspection Service is a big part of that, you know,
security apparatus, but so is the way that we scan.

Speaker 4 (01:38:26):
All the materials that go through all of our plants.

Speaker 5 (01:38:29):
And and and and the way that the mail is handled,
and in particular with election mail, we deploy extra extraordinary
measures within all the plants and the facilities, UH to
ensure the security of that material. And so the piece
that I saw, I think left out a lot of
the really important details that are part of that security apparatus.

(01:38:51):
And you know, looking at a piece references looking at
a statement from the Postal Service about billing for deliverables
that includes.

Speaker 4 (01:39:02):
When counties get that statement.

Speaker 5 (01:39:04):
That includes not just ballot material, but that includes all
of the.

Speaker 4 (01:39:07):
Mailings that counties have done, voter information cards.

Speaker 5 (01:39:11):
Voter confirmation letters, anything that is undeliverable the county needs
to pay for is part of that statement.

Speaker 4 (01:39:17):
Okay, so they don't. They're not they're not carving out
just ballot material. So the number when they go and
compare what's.

Speaker 5 (01:39:24):
Reported as an undeliverable ballot, it's never going to match
those storg.

Speaker 4 (01:39:27):
Those statements are for billing purposes.

Speaker 2 (01:39:29):
All right, So let me let me that for a second.

Speaker 4 (01:39:32):
That piece is just inaccurate the way.

Speaker 1 (01:39:34):
That they have that. Okay, so we just we just
have a few minutes left, So I want to just
get through this kind of quickly. So are you saying
you believe that poor tracking of undelivered ballots? And I
think the fear is that then somebody gets their hands
on them and somehow finds a way to vote them.

Speaker 2 (01:39:53):
Are you saying you think that's not a real.

Speaker 4 (01:39:54):
Issue it, Well, so there's a few at least in
that piece.

Speaker 5 (01:40:00):
I think that there's many missing parts of that the
article that I saw, and I don't know where they
got their data and facts from.

Speaker 4 (01:40:08):
You know, it's not.

Speaker 5 (01:40:10):
It didn't appear to include the various important part parts.
So the other thing I just want to say is
with every piece of ballot material that goes out in
the state of Colorado, and I think every county almost
uses also intelligent mail barcode tracking information, and so when
it goes through the postal service. You remember, undeliverable ballots

(01:40:35):
are actually marked as undeliverable in our scanning equipment before
they even go out with the carrier. So we actually
know just based on name and address, because we manage
the National Change of Address database, we know if something
will be undeliverable based on already knowing that the person
has moved before.

Speaker 4 (01:40:53):
The carrier even takes it out. So we have special
equipment that scan all of that.

Speaker 5 (01:40:57):
It outstacks any that don't match with the address, and
we actually see them. And since Colorado was ballot tracking system,
you actually can can see that data and know it
prior to any physical delivery of anything. And the only
reason I say that is that's another security feature in
Colorado and that we don't all we don't just have

(01:41:20):
to rely on the physical piece itself being undeliverable. We
actually can see that through the scan data. And Colorado
has done many enhancements and using that and notifying voters
immediately if they're ballot you know, was undeliverable, encouraging them
to change their address, all those things. And so there's
the physical security of the material in the postal stream,

(01:41:42):
but there's also this other ability for for mail to
be tracked uh and and and certainly Colorado has access
and an ability to see that information. And it is
important to note that that chain of custody exists.

Speaker 4 (01:41:59):
It's is not the only security priests.

Speaker 5 (01:42:02):
And then if it like someone I think brought up
the unlikely scenario that someone steals something out of a
postal service, which by the way, we have no examples
of happening, and also that would bring a large amount
of criminal penalties for anyone to try to do that,
especially given all the camera equipment and security we have

(01:42:23):
on site in the postal facilities. But in the event
that anyone got a hold of that, remember that we
also have other security checks.

Speaker 4 (01:42:30):
In place before a mail ballot is ever accepted to.

Speaker 5 (01:42:33):
Be counted, and those all also matter in terms of
the broader ecosystem that.

Speaker 4 (01:42:41):
We have in terms of security broadly of the election.

Speaker 2 (01:42:44):
All Right, I think we're gonna have to leave it there.

Speaker 1 (01:42:46):
I've got some other stuff, but we're out of time
at this point. We'll have you back to cover some
more of these issues. I appreciate your time. Amber McReynolds
is a former elections official. Also, it's done a lot
of work, as you can tell from detailed answers with
the postal Service about saping track of ballots.

Speaker 2 (01:43:00):
Thanks for your time as always, Amber, Thank you, Rye.

Speaker 1 (01:43:07):
All Right, I told her three or four times to
give me shorter answers, and she never did, so we
didn't get through everything. I'll just mention one other thing
and then Mandy seems like she wants to add something.

Speaker 2 (01:43:16):
I'm just going to mention one other thing that.

Speaker 1 (01:43:19):
Was brought up by by Heidi I think online, which
I think is a legit issue, absolutely legit issue, and
that is they're supposed to be really good camera coverage
of our drop boxes so that you can see, you know,
is anybody messing with them, Is anyone trying to steal
something from them, Is anybody trying to stuff them full
of ballots, you know, for whatever reason.

Speaker 2 (01:43:41):
And also so that.

Speaker 1 (01:43:42):
You have good enough coverage so that if you catch,
you see someone doing something that might be illegal, that
the quality of the picture is good enough that you
can identify the person and use it as evidence. And
Heidi and her people have found and they've they've shown
it's definitely true that at many of our drop boxes
the cameras are too far away or too low quality
or both so that they don't perform the security function

(01:44:05):
they're supposed to perform. And this is something that the
elections department in counties and whoever has to do all
this stuff, they really need.

Speaker 2 (01:44:13):
To fix that. And that's something that they should.

Speaker 1 (01:44:15):
Be able to fix, you know, even government should be
able to fix a lot of these things.

Speaker 2 (01:44:20):
Before the election, Hi, Andy, A.

Speaker 9 (01:44:21):
Lot of words, none of them made me feel particularly
more secure.

Speaker 1 (01:44:24):
I'm not gonna lie. I don't think she was helpful.
I just don't. I already think I feel much more
secure than you do, and you know, or a much
more secure than a lot of these other people. This
is what I find disappointing.

Speaker 9 (01:44:37):
If there are, if there are any situations that people
could say, here's a problem and they're easy to fix.

Speaker 2 (01:44:43):
Why are you even talking about gott to fix them?

Speaker 1 (01:44:45):
Why are we even having a conversation agree?

Speaker 9 (01:44:47):
Yeah, like you know what, You're right, let's take care
of it for sure, for sure, absolutely, and that I'm
one hundred percent with you, even for.

Speaker 1 (01:44:55):
Things that I think are a little or maybe even
no risk. It's so it's every bit as important that
people trust their elections as that elections are trustworthy. They're
about equally important and one of those things we don't
have much of right now.

Speaker 2 (01:45:12):
What do you have coming up, Mandy?

Speaker 9 (01:45:13):
I got cliffmate coming up at twelve thirty. You're going
to talk about the attacks from Iran on Israel. They're
shooting rockets into Tel Aviv, people are being shot in Jaffa.
Right We're at dinner when I was in Israel right there,
So we're obviously going.

Speaker 1 (01:45:25):
To talk about that today. All right, everybody's sticking around
for Mandy Show. I'll talk to you tomorrow.