10-13-25 *INTERVIEW* Jimmy Sengenberger with Col. Matt Yocum USAF Ret Hangar 19 Consulting

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
We've had some remarkable developments in the past handful of days,
with a cease fire achieved in the Middle East. President
Trump speaking earlier to the Israeli Parliament, and then just
he's still going, I think, speaking at a ceasefire deals,

(00:23):
signing over guys with a number of world leaders, something
on the order of thirty five Middle Eastern leaders and others,
as he brings the world into the folds in a
way I find rather interesting. It's not just about Israel
and the Palestinians or Hamas in particular. It is broader

(00:44):
than that, bigger than that, with so many involved and
who else. Maybe that'll help with the future moving forward.
But let's break this down with someone who really and
deeply understands the Middle East. He now advised it is
as a consultant on Middle Eastern affairs and more. Retired

(01:05):
Air Force Colonel Matt Yoakum served i think over twenty
five years in the Air Force, including some time teaching
down at the Air Force Academy right here in Colorado,
and he has an extensive background in the Middle East.
And I'm very pleased to welcome Matt Yoakum to Koa, Sir,

(01:26):
Good morning and Welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
Good morning, Jimmy. Thanks so much for having me, Thanks.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
For coming on. Before we get into some of the issues,
I'd love for you to talk a bit about your
background in the Air Force, some of your experience and
expertise in the Middle East in that regard, and then
we'll build out and take that expertise to understand more
about some of the issues going on.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah. Absolutely, you know you had pointed out my connections
the Air Force Academy. I graduated there in nineteen ninety
three and then was fortunate to go back and teach
there for a couple of years. And my origins I
was an engineer and that was my first exposure, believe
it or not, to the Middle East. Was years after
multiple assignments in the Air Force, I got an exchange

(02:11):
program to do scientific research overseas, in particularly in Israel.
I got to do research in Israel for two years.
That gave me a new status and that was what's
called a foreign Area officer, so someone with a bit
more experience overseas, and then I was able to pivot
into that career field as a foreign Area officer and
I subsequently did another assignment back in Israel working at

(02:35):
the US Embassy, where I did another four years, so
that was six years total in Israel, and then I
had to learn Arabic and I was able to serve
at the US Embassy in Amman, Jordan, across the river
from Israel for three years, so about nine years living there.
And then ultimately I was able to serve two different
four star generals who were responsible for the Middle East.
That's an unit called the US Central Command or Centcom,

(02:59):
becoming their prime advisor, the commander of the US Central
Command of the primary advisor and writer for two different
four stars, and.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
That certainly gives some fascinating perspective, to say the least
on the ground. Let's ask you a big picture question
to sort of start this off, and that is what
your reaction is to what clearly is a momentous event
of the hostages, those who are still alive being returned,

(03:30):
and of course that is twenty Israelis, but also there's
an exchange of many others of Palestinians that have been
held by the Israelis.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
That's right, it's you know, the region goes slow and
then it goes fast, and you see that throughout the
decades you know, certain things that have been talked about,
are planned for or anticipated for decades had not really happened.
You know, what would the Israelis strike inside Iran as
an example, what would be the final resolution of the

(04:05):
Palestinian territories. Would we get a two state solution or not?
And so once everything you know, kicked off on October seventh,
twenty twenty three with Hamas's attack inside Israel, that that
really shifted into overdrive a whole series of major, major activities,

(04:26):
some of which you know I mentioned. Israel did end
up striking inside Iran. Prior to that, they had struck
inside Lebanon to begin the long war, you know, against
Kamas to dismantle that organization inside the Godden Strip, and
one that we honestly didn't know how long it would take,
was going to be the resolution of getting all of

(04:46):
their citizens back that have been held you captive for
now over over two years. So you have some major
major milestone events that have happened in these last two years,
this being one of the most significant because if they
were not released then then Israel was going to have
to deal with this in one form of fashion, whether

(05:07):
it was conflict or negotiation or a combination of both,
for who knows how long. Colonel.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
One of the things that I found very important about
all of this has been the resolve of the Israelis
to prosecute this war for the past now just over
two years up to this point, that they kept persisting
in a way that I thought was essential if you're

(05:35):
going to send the kind of message that Hamas needs
to be sent in terms of that resolve. But it
also was very much incumbent upon the current president, President
Trump coming into office in January to stake claim to
supporting Israel to bring us to this point with more
military weapons, with the backing to say, yes, if we

(05:59):
don't resis and in some form of peaceful conclusion, then
we're going to give Israel the license to continue to
push this How significant do you think those factors were
in bringing us to this point.

Speaker 2 (06:15):
Jimmy, You're absolutely right. There were a number of things
that had to happen for Israel to continue this fight,
you know, on the military side, for as long as
they did, a lot of people don't realize that inside
Israel there was a lot of internal friction. They were
not in homogeneous and you know, one side of it,
let's continue the fight. There was friction. There were massive protests,

(06:38):
you know, against the Israeli Prime minister saying, just make
a deal. It's time to be done with the fight.
Just to make a deal and bring them home. And
then there were an equal number of people supporting the
prime minister saying no, we you know, if we make
a deal, then Hamas wins because their narrative will be,
you know that we you ultimately had to deal with

(06:58):
us and taking the high that just led to you
having to make a deal. So there's a series of
things though that allowed them to continue the fight. One
was the current government in Israel, which is a coalition
government of a variety of different parties there stitched together.
And that government, you know, of course headed by the
Prime Minister, Benjamin net Bahu. He was able to hold

(07:20):
that together. He was recently elected, so he still had
a number of years and unless a smaller party pulled
out of his government and toppled the government, then he
was able to continue to go forward. And as long
as he helped them achieve those smaller parties what their
desires were for their respective constituency, then they were going
to allow him to continue to do what he did.

(07:41):
The second thing is the United States. They had. The
Israelis had to have the backing of the United States
and in both obviously the waves of support that the
Globe gave him in the United States after October seventh,
twenty twenty three, and then continuing into the Trump administration,
they knew that they have the US's backing, and that
both diplomatically as we've seen play out of the UN

(08:03):
but then even militarily with supporting shooting down missiles to
protect Israel and things like that. And then the third
thing that they had is they had the backing of
some of the Arab states that they had had agreements
with the Abraham Accords, which they have with the United
Arab Emirates, the UAE, and bob Rain. And then they
also had passit approval from the Saudis, who never fully

(08:25):
condemned the Israelis, and so knowing that they that they
had all of that that allowed them to continue this
this fight for as long as they did, which to
your point, was ultimately necessary to getting their people back.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
Yeah, without a doubt. Again, we're talking with retired Air
Force Colonel Matt Yoakam and you're hitting on something that
I've been drilling home as well, and that is in
terms of the Abraham Accords, really laying a lot of
the foundation for the involvement and engagement of Arab partners.

Speaker 2 (08:55):
Here.

Speaker 1 (08:55):
In fact, what we're seeing today with President Trump at
a guy as a ceasefire peace conference, here's what's gonna
happen next with Gaza and so forth, bringing together so
many nations. And over the weekend he touted the celebrations
that were joined by both Arabs and Israelis as well.

Speaker 3 (09:17):
This is a very special event there at five hundred
thousand people yesterday and today in Israel, and also the
Muslim and Arab countries are all cheering. Everybody's cheering at
one time. That's never happened before.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
And I think there's a lot of truth to that.
But I'm wondering in that regard, especially with these partners,
what happens next, What is the next step and where
do we go from here visa v not just Gaza,
but the region as a whole.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
Yeah, that's a good question. You know, certainly Israeli set
the conditions for a whole reset of the Middle East,
and by that I mean chipping away An Iranian proxies,
of which was one of those. And so you have
the dismantlement of the long dismantlement of Hamas Uh into
their northern neighbor in Lebanon, the dismantlement of the Lebanese

(10:10):
Yzballah terror group and and UH, and then of course
attacking inside Iran itself as well as the fall of
the Syrian government which was propped up by Iran and others.
And so they've definitely set the conditions regionally to begin
to continue to advance. What you know, in the wake
of the Abraham Accords, you might begin to see movements

(10:34):
towards some type of peace between Saudi Arabia UH in Israel,
which will be the granddaddy of all peace agreements would
be between those two, with Saudi Arabia of course being
the keepers of Mecca Medina, the Holy Sites of Islam.
When it comes to Gaza, you know this is not
a quick fix, both from an infrastructure standpoint, certainly, as

(10:55):
so much of Gaza has been the Gaza Strip has
been devastated. But then secondly, how you put together a
ruling you know, party or element that has the security
piece behind it to back it up. It's going to
be very challenging. Of course, as you mentioned right now
in a city called Charmashek in Egypt, there's a number

(11:17):
of world leaders all gathering to begin the first discussions
on what that's going to entail. But there's going to
be some long, long discussions, and then there's just the
realities on the ground. Hamas instantly started ramping up attacks
right after the ceasefire against rival clans. They killed fifty
from a rival plan weren't probably the leading rival plan.

(11:39):
They killed fifty in the last twenty four hours. And
so there's also going to be just the politics of
the street how that plays out. So the question will
be how can they how can the international community and
particularly the Arab community, come together in a fashion to
find some way to govern the Gaza strip that both

(12:00):
law and order and also the security elements that are
necessary for a population that is beginning to get its
seat back under it.

Speaker 1 (12:09):
They say passed his prologue, and of course we need
to learn from history. From your perspective, Colonel Yoakum, is
there any past precedent that we should look at to
guide what has happened so far and where we might
go from here.

Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah, certainly when it came to the taking of the hostages,
Hamas knew the value of what they were going to
get by taking these hostages. Of course, they killed many people.
On October seventh and twenty twenty three, they killed you know,
somewhere around twelve hundred Israelis and other you know, foreign nationals.
But then they took you know, two hundred and fifty
one hostages. Well, if you go back to you know,

(12:48):
a number of years ago, back to June of two
thousand and six, they took one hostage, a young Israeli
soldier named Gilad Shalit. He was held ultimately for over
five years. He did not come out until October twenty
eleven before he was released from the Gaza Strip and
in return, Israelis gave up over a thousand Palestinians. So

(13:09):
the one one released in receiving over a thousand, they
knew that this was going to be worthwhile. It was
just a question of how long could they could they
hold on to them and how you know, how many
could they get back. So that's certainly one element when
it comes to the current situation in Gaza. There's really

(13:30):
no precedent for that as far as the complete you know,
both devastation, but then secondly just the lack of rule.
You know, Hamas had won election an election in two
thousand and six and it's been the ruling party ever since.
And of course after that election there were never elections held.
So now they have to go back to the drawing

(13:52):
board and try to figure out, you know, how do
they piece this back together. Nobody really wants to touch
it fully, nobody wants to fully own it. And so
if there's an international support, it's going to have to
come together with a coalition of the willing to come
together to try to help you resolve and stand Gaza

(14:13):
back up. And of course the Israelis are going to
be a key piece in that because number one to
them is going to be their ongoing security. You know,
they're going to have a mancha of never again, because
they're never going to allow something happened like what we
saw on October seventh.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
Amen to that, appreciate the insights from our guest. US
Air Force Colonel Matt Yoakum, retired, former Special Assistant to
the Commander at US Central Command. But I would remiss,
I would be remiss Matt if I didn't talk for
a minute about how we actually met. We were both

(14:49):
at Fan Expo Denver, which and you have not heard
this snippet, but folks who were listening to that day
when I was in with Mandy Connell and we both
have the opportunity to interview William Shatner, and of course
this happened. When you go to a convention like this,
what does that mean to you personally and professionally and

(15:11):
in particular as well, what role have they really had
over the last coming up next year sixty years in
helping to keep Star Trek not just alive, but thriving.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
Okay, so you know what that's called it that's called
a compound question. It is trying to.

Speaker 1 (15:27):
Narrow a couple of a million questions.

Speaker 3 (15:29):
I don't know where to start.

Speaker 2 (15:31):
I don't know, Jimmy, let me talk. That's part of
the interview. Now.

Speaker 1 (15:34):
You have may have been scolded I don't know, Matt
Yoakum by the head of US Central Command. But I
was scolded by Captain Kirk himself live right here on
the KOA airwaves. But I digress for that. With that context,
I met you because I was covering for the Denver
Gazette Fan Expo Denver. That happens every summer, and you

(15:57):
had a booth because you are a comic book writer
in addition to your military service and background. And thank
you for that and your work as a consultant a
Hangar nineteen consulting. Talk to yous about that.

Speaker 2 (16:11):
Yes, you're right. I mean I've had a love of
comic books and graphic novels my whole life read and collected,
and I've always been a prose writer, and then made
the pivot to writing comics about halfway through my military career.
So it was always a side gig, and then after
I retired, I really began to ramp it up and
put my heart and soul into finishing a graphic novel

(16:32):
that I you know, did the crowdfunding kickstarter. It had
just come out before Fain Expo Denver, and so I
was fortunate to bring it out there and begin to
you know, put it in front of an audience and
fans and begin to sell it. And you know you're
right when you're at a comic book convention. Obviously we're
there for our common love of comics and science fiction
and fantasy and you know, all things that geek culture,

(16:53):
but you never know who you're going to run into
and the overlap that you have with things out side
of comics, and so I was fortunate to meet you
and then that led to this. So but yeah, that's
a huge part of my life and something I really
look forward to spending more time with now that I'm retired.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
What's your thirty second pitch for your latest project.

Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yeah, so Closet World, which just came out again from
a Kickstarter and now sold on my website at yokum
dot com. It's a kind of a portal fantasy in
the same vein as the Chronicles of Narnia. But really,
really what made it special was I wrote this with
my brother as opposed as a prose piece, kind of
a back and forth tennis style where I'd write a

(17:39):
scene and give it back to him and then you know,
back to me. We finished it, but he passed away
two months after we completed it, and so just as
a legacy piece to honor his imagination for the sake
of the kids that he had left behind and now
years later his grandkids that he never met, I was
committed to turning our story into a graphic novel, which

(18:00):
is just a fun all ages portal fantasy adventure in
the vein of Chronicles of Narnia, and it's called Closet World.
So yeah, I'm just so excited that it became reality
after the years of labor, its origins with my brother
and the years of labor to turn our vision into
a comic.

Speaker 1 (18:18):
Wow, that truly is amazing. Matt Yoakum dot com. Is
this website fantastic conversation. Thank you so much for joining
us today here on Kaway, and I look forward to
talking with you a getting down the line.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
Absolutely, thanks Demy, I appreciate it.