Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We're going to do something completely different.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I am very pleased to be joined on the show
by Tyler Martinez. And when I heard Tyler's name, it
rang a bell with me because I remembered an attorney
named Tyler Martinez who had graduated from the leadership program
of the Rockies a few years back, a Colorado dude.
And it is indeed the same Tyler Martinez. There's probably
more than one Tyler Martinez in the world, but this
(00:24):
is that very one. And Tyler is now a senior
attorney at the National Taxpayers Union Foundation Taxpayer Defense Center.
And Tyler is from Colorado and he went to see
you law school. And anyway, he and his group just
won a wonderful little lawsuit, well maybe not that little
(00:45):
for the people who are involved defending Tabor, and I
thought it would be fun to have him here, just,
you know, tell us a happy story about a win
for the good guys for one. So Tyler, welcome to KOA.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Well, thank you for having me. It's always nice to
have a win.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Indeed, it is tell us about the lawsuit.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Sure, So this lawsuit asks a simple question, which is
does Tabor mean what it says? Tabor says that before
a government can raise the tax rate, you need to
have a vote to the people. Simple thing. It's the
simplest thing. I think Tabor's praises all over the country
and other states saying this is how you can fix
your government. This is a great idea. Let's do this well.
(01:31):
A little water conservancy district in northeastern Colorado raised its
rate without a vote of the people. And it seems
like a pretty straightforward idea to us that Tabor means
what it says, and finally the courts agreed with us.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
So just give us a little bit of detail on
exactly what governmental entity we're talking about here and exactly
what they did.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Sure, so, a water conservancy district is important to farmers
and ranchers, especially out in the plains where it's really dry.
They take care of theoretically building dams or wells or
irrigation ditches, those sort of things that you need to
keep table alive, keep alfalpha growing, keep corn growing, all
that good stuff. This water district, though, isn't voted on
(02:17):
by the people. It's appointed by a local judge and
there's no vote to the people on who's on this
board or not. And theoretically they shouldn't be doing much,
but they do have the power to have property taxes.
And for years and years and years, the Lower South
Platte Water Conservancy District had a water had a rate
(02:40):
for the property tax of half a mill, and then
they decided one day to just double it, just raise
it up to one full mill, which is a lot
of money in the aggregate. That doubled their their budget overnight.
And they didn't have a vote of the people on
this at all. When some citizens stood up and said, hey,
wait a second, tabor, we have we have tabor, we
(03:02):
have the right to vote on this. Tell us what
are you going to use the money for? What do
you want to what project do you want to do
that sort of thing, they said, no, we don't have to.
Our budget just requires more money now, and they were
they were just ignored, and eventually they had to try
and find legal representation. The problem is that the mill
(03:23):
every doubling. It's it's a small water district. It's not
the big line item on your property taxes. It's not
like the it's not like the schools or the fire
district or the police.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Right and we're not talking about We're not talking about
Denver or Rapahole County, right.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Right, we're talking about Washington County. We're talking about literally
you're almost you're right driving up by seventy six and
you're almost in Nebraska, right, Okay, So you're talking at
the very corner of the state, and in fact, it's
even hard to see the mountains from there. It's the
tiny farming community, you know, it's brush, it's it's those
card of communities, Fort Morgan a little bit, and it's
(03:59):
a The problem is it's it's a doubled rate. But
you can't get a private attorney to to just like
take on that case because there's not enough money there
to fight for five years. This case ended up taking
five years of fighting. And that's what we do at
the Taxpayer Defense Centers. We protect taxpayers, especially where it's
important and the issue is and the legal and the
(04:20):
constitutional principles are important. But there's not enough money there
for the you know, the big like law firms in
Denver to take it on because there's it wouldn't make
economic sense to do so.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Okay. So I see in the news story that this
was at the Colorado Court of Appeals. Is that right?
Speaker 1 (04:38):
That's right? And so I'm.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Not expert on Colorado's stuff, but there's at least one
and maybe two levels of state court below that.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Right, So this started out in district court and Logan
County District Court. It's the same place if somebody got
a felony or a UI, same sort of judge, but
they also hear civil cases. And it started out there
and the judge said, well, I don't know, it seems
like it's a ministerial sort of Well, their budget, you know, raised,
and so they have to just raise the tax rate.
(05:08):
And the law before Taber, the law before Taber allowed
up to one mill levee one mill for the for
the property tax in this district. That law was written
in like the nineteen sixties. So he said, well, it
seems like it's okay, And we said no, no, no,
Tabor means what it says, and we took it to
the Court of Appeals. We took it to the Court
of Appeals, and we got a unanimous decision from the
(05:30):
Court of Appeals. All three judges agreed with us, saying
that Tabor means what it says. You can't raise the
property tax rate, especially doubling it, but you can't raise
it without telling people why and let people vote on it.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
So I'm just about I'm just about out of time here, Tyler.
But I don't understand what would have caused the water
district to think they had any chance of winning this case.
When it got to a real court.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
It surprised us too, And so yeah, yeah, once they
got to the real court, the judges all knocked it down.
They tried to get the Colorado Supreme Court involved in it,
and Colorold Supreme Court is no friend of Tabor. But
even the colorod Spreme Court didn't want to take the case.
They're like, you know, they number give their reasons why
they didn't take the case, but I think it's pretty obvious.
And so it was. It was a big deal. It's
(06:19):
a big win. But now this water district has to
find a way to pay back in principle one point
six million dollars. But you add an interest on that, Yeah,
and it's going to be like a three million dollar problem.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
I'll have to say that for a small district that
they're going to have to pay out over time. By
the way, I know you at National Taxpayers Union, you're
you're a nonprofit and you did this pro bono. But
I'm wondering, as part of the settlement, will they will
the losers have to pay intu or int uf any
attorney's fees.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Yes, they will. Taper provides that the law, and Taper says, hey,
if the taxpayers win, they get attorney's fees, or they
can at least ask for them. And we got it,
and we got our fee, and so they're gonna also
have to pay for our time. And that helps us
with the next fight, and there will always be the
next fight. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Tyler Martinez, a senior attorney at the National Taxpayer Union
Foundation's Taxpayer Defense Center. They just won an important case
for vindicating the rights of taxpayers and vindicating tabor here
in the state of Colorado. Not surprising that a graduate
of the leadership program of the Rockies would get that done.
Thank you so much for your time, Tyler, and more importantly,
(07:28):
thank you for winning that case.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Thank you for having me glad to do it.
We're going to do something completely different.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I am very pleased to be joined on the show
by Tyler Martinez. And when I heard Tyler's name, it
rang a bell with me because I remembered an attorney
named Tyler Martinez who had graduated from the leadership program
of the Rockies a few years back, a Colorado dude.
And it is indeed the same Tyler Martinez. There's probably
more than one Tyler Martinez in the world, but this
(00:24):
is that very one. And Tyler is now a senior
attorney at the National Taxpayers Union Foundation Taxpayer Defense Center.
And Tyler is from Colorado and he went to see
you law school. And anyway, he and his group just
won a wonderful little lawsuit, well maybe not that little
(00:45):
for the people who are involved defending Tabor, and I
thought it would be fun to have him here, just,
you know, tell us a happy story about a win
for the good guys for one. So Tyler, welcome to KOA.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Well, thank you for having me. It's always nice to
have a win.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Indeed, it is tell us about the lawsuit.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Sure, So this lawsuit asks a simple question, which is
does Tabor mean what it says? Tabor says that before
a government can raise the tax rate, you need to
have a vote to the people. Simple thing. It's the
simplest thing. I think Tabor's praises all over the country
and other states saying this is how you can fix
your government. This is a great idea. Let's do this well.
(01:31):
A little water conservancy district in northeastern Colorado raised its
rate without a vote of the people. And it seems
like a pretty straightforward idea to us that Tabor means
what it says, and finally the courts agreed with us.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
So just give us a little bit of detail on
exactly what governmental entity we're talking about here and exactly
what they did.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Sure, so, a water conservancy district is important to farmers
and ranchers, especially out in the plains where it's really dry.
They take care of theoretically building dams or wells or
irrigation ditches, those sort of things that you need to
keep table alive, keep alfalpha growing, keep corn growing, all
that good stuff. This water district, though, isn't voted on
(02:17):
by the people. It's appointed by a local judge and
there's no vote to the people on who's on this
board or not. And theoretically they shouldn't be doing much,
but they do have the power to have property taxes.
And for years and years and years, the Lower South
Platte Water Conservancy District had a water had a rate
(02:40):
for the property tax of half a mill, and then
they decided one day to just double it, just raise
it up to one full mill, which is a lot
of money in the aggregate. That doubled their their budget overnight.
And they didn't have a vote of the people on
this at all. When some citizens stood up and said, hey,
wait a second, tabor, we have we have tabor, we
(03:02):
have the right to vote on this. Tell us what
are you going to use the money for? What do
you want to what project do you want to do
that sort of thing, they said, no, we don't have to.
Our budget just requires more money now, and they were
they were just ignored, and eventually they had to try
and find legal representation. The problem is that the mill
(03:23):
every doubling. It's it's a small water district. It's not
the big line item on your property taxes. It's not
like the it's not like the schools or the fire
district or the police.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Right and we're not talking about We're not talking about
Denver or Rapahole County, right.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Right, we're talking about Washington County. We're talking about literally
you're almost you're right driving up by seventy six and
you're almost in Nebraska, right, Okay, So you're talking at
the very corner of the state, and in fact, it's
even hard to see the mountains from there. It's the
tiny farming community, you know, it's brush, it's it's those
card of communities, Fort Morgan a little bit, and it's
(03:59):
a The problem is it's it's a doubled rate. But
you can't get a private attorney to to just like
take on that case because there's not enough money there
to fight for five years. This case ended up taking
five years of fighting. And that's what we do at
the Taxpayer Defense Centers. We protect taxpayers, especially where it's
important and the issue is and the legal and the
(04:20):
constitutional principles are important. But there's not enough money there
for the you know, the big like law firms in
Denver to take it on because there's it wouldn't make
economic sense to do so.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Okay. So I see in the news story that this
was at the Colorado Court of Appeals. Is that right?
Speaker 1 (04:38):
That's right? And so I'm.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Not expert on Colorado's stuff, but there's at least one
and maybe two levels of state court below that.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Right, So this started out in district court and Logan
County District Court. It's the same place if somebody got
a felony or a UI, same sort of judge, but
they also hear civil cases. And it started out there
and the judge said, well, I don't know, it seems
like it's a ministerial sort of Well, their budget, you know, raised,
and so they have to just raise the tax rate.
(05:08):
And the law before Taber, the law before Taber allowed
up to one mill levee one mill for the for
the property tax in this district. That law was written
in like the nineteen sixties. So he said, well, it
seems like it's okay, And we said no, no, no,
Tabor means what it says, and we took it to
the Court of Appeals. We took it to the Court
of Appeals, and we got a unanimous decision from the
(05:30):
Court of Appeals. All three judges agreed with us, saying
that Tabor means what it says. You can't raise the
property tax rate, especially doubling it, but you can't raise
it without telling people why and let people vote on it.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
So I'm just about I'm just about out of time here, Tyler.
But I don't understand what would have caused the water
district to think they had any chance of winning this case.
When it got to a real court.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
It surprised us too, And so yeah, yeah, once they
got to the real court, the judges all knocked it down.
They tried to get the Colorado Supreme Court involved in it,
and Colorold Supreme Court is no friend of Tabor. But
even the colorod Spreme Court didn't want to take the case.
They're like, you know, they number give their reasons why
they didn't take the case, but I think it's pretty obvious.
And so it was. It was a big deal. It's
(06:19):
a big win. But now this water district has to
find a way to pay back in principle one point
six million dollars. But you add an interest on that, Yeah,
and it's going to be like a three million dollar problem.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
I'll have to say that for a small district that
they're going to have to pay out over time. By
the way, I know you at National Taxpayers Union, you're
you're a nonprofit and you did this pro bono. But
I'm wondering, as part of the settlement, will they will
the losers have to pay intu or int uf any
attorney's fees.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Yes, they will. Taper provides that the law, and Taper says, hey,
if the taxpayers win, they get attorney's fees, or they
can at least ask for them. And we got it,
and we got our fee, and so they're gonna also
have to pay for our time. And that helps us
with the next fight, and there will always be the
next fight. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Tyler Martinez, a senior attorney at the National Taxpayer Union
Foundation's Taxpayer Defense Center. They just won an important case
for vindicating the rights of taxpayers and vindicating tabor here
in the state of Colorado. Not surprising that a graduate
of the leadership program of the Rockies would get that done.
Thank you so much for your time, Tyler, and more importantly,
(07:28):
thank you for winning that case.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Thank you for having me glad to do it.
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