Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I appreciate your company, and this topic showed up in
my email and I thought, you know what, this is,
this outside of what I normally kind.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Of talk about.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
But I think so many people in my audience can
relate to what we're going to talk about right now
with doctor Rebecca Udi, and I can relate to it
as well, Like, you know what, we really need to
do this.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
So doctor Udy just wrote her first.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Book, which is an amazing achievement in which I will
probably never achieve, and it's called Parents in Love, A
Guide to Great Sex after Kids. So Doc, first of all,
thanks for being here on KOA.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
It's good to have you.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Thanks for having me, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
What is the name of the dog sitting behind you
on the chair.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
His name is Acorn.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
That is a good dog name, Hi Acorn. See if
he looks up the kids named him.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
You know, they always come up with the best stuff,
all right.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
So if we generalize the issue, well, we're going to
talk about a couple of different issues.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
If we generalize this issue as.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
After a certain point in a marriage and especially after children,
the romantic life doesn't feel as romantic as it used to.
So my first question for you is how big a
problem is this?
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Well, I think that there's two answers to that.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
One is that it is affects almost every relationship. So
what we're really talking about here is this diminished desire.
But it's not really a problem unless it's a problem
in the relationship, if you get me. So, if you
have two people who both have matching desire that's relatively
(01:45):
low or relatively high, then it's not a problem at all.
But when it becomes a problem is when there's a
difference in desire, and that affects almost all couples at
some point in a long term relationship.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Okay, so I'm sure you are well aware since you
are a licensed sex therapist as well as couples therapists
and all of this other stuff that you do. I'm
sure you are aware that as young men, we are
programmed to believe that men want sex and women don't
care very much, which of course is not true, but
(02:20):
that is how that's how we, you know, grow up
in high school.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
And college and all that.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
I would like to know whether that sort of urban
legend has an actual grain of truth when it comes
to the population that we're talking about now, with couples
that are not just married, but married and old enough
and been together long enough that they've got kids.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Yeah, so there's a lot in there.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
And I think that it's a really good it's a
really good question, because yes, research tells us that on average,
men tend to have higher desire than women.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
That it's not the.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
Difference is not as big as what you might think.
But testosterone governs spontaneous desire, which is that thing that
happens when you're walking down the street and you're like, dang,
all right, I'm ready to go. So, but the other
kind of desire is responsive desire, which happens when you're
in a situation, and a lot of times the desire
doesn't show up until after physical arousal.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Starts to kick in.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
And that is more common in women, certainly possible in
both men and women. But the other part of what
you said, which I think is so important, which is
that young men are conditioned to think that the way
that they get love belonging connection is through sex and
so and women are not conditioned to be able to
(03:43):
ask for what they want or express what their desire is.
And so women are much more comfortable approaching in an
emotional way for connection, and men tend to be much
more comfortable approaching in a more sexual way for connection.
And so that sort of compound this already sort of
biological desire difference that exists.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
So the first thing you said there I relate to
very much in that. You know, sometimes I just like
I'm quote unquote in the mood like I want to
fool around, and I go to my wife and like,
ask her if she wants to fool around, she's Her
answer is always the same, I don't work that way.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
You can't cold call me.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
You gotta warm me up a little bit, you know,
a foot massage, a neck massage, something, because I don't
work like that. And she's been very she's very consistent
with that. But that falls perfectly into what you just said.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
Yeah, it sounds like you guys are classic spontaneous versus
responsive desire.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Yeah, and you know one is not better or worse.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
But you have to understand that someone who has more
responsive desire is approaching being sexual from a place of willingness.
It's not from a place of desire. So they might
be kind of curious, kind of willing to be warmed up.
So if you get to warm me up a little bit.
That's that's good, that's great. You see where that goes. Yeah, right,
but you have to respect that the willingness.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
It doesn't feel quite as satisfying as that I have
to have you right away.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yeah, yeah, that's all right.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
I mean I'll take what I can get, even you know,
I got to remind myself to work for it a
little bit. Now, let's get back more on the specific
topic then, of reduced desire at a point in a
relationship after kids and you know, beyond what we just
talked about, there, you know, warm her up a little bit,
which could be true even before you have kids.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
I want to talk a little bit about.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Some of the specifics of the kinds of advice you
find yourself giving frequently to people who might be in
their forties and fifties and sixties.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Absolutely so.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
I think before kids, we probably were already warming each
other up without really meaning to. You know, there's days planned,
there's romance, there's talking, there's connecting, there's vulnerability happening. And
then after kids, you know, the sort of minutia of
life just takes over. It becomes all about schedules. None
of that's really all that sexy. Caregiving is not sexy,
(06:15):
and so it is natural that desire sort of gets
suppressed by all of that dirty laundry and schedules and
you know, be feeling like an uber driver, and so
it does tend to get buried. And then on top
of that, also there's hormonal changes, you know, aging bodies,
Like libido does naturally decrease as people age. So I
(06:39):
would say that the thing is is that this is
very normal. But some of the best advice that I
can give to couples, and the thing that I ask
couples to start with is by taking the pressure off.
So if in your sex life it started, it starts
to feel like sort of high pressure. One person is
a high desire and one person's a lower desire, and
(07:02):
one person's always initiating, and then you know, it sort
of feels like this thing that you can't really talk about,
and it's this source of tension in your relationship. Chances
are there's going to be some pressure there and that
additionally kills any desire that might be there to find.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Okay, so that sounds close to my marriage, maybe not
quite all the way there, but in that direction.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
So what do you do about it?
Speaker 3 (07:29):
So you mean, what do I do? How do you
take the pressure off?
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
So one of the first things that you can do
to take the pressure off is by trying to connect
in other ways as well. So focusing on the micro
moments of connection, because the thing is is that partnered
sex is about connection. Yeah, it feels good, but it's
not only about release. It's not only about the physicality
of sex. It's about connecting with someone that you want
(07:55):
to be with, and so focusing on other ways that
you can connect. A lot of time what happens is
that one partner is saying, hey, I want to connect emotionally,
I want your support, I want you know, for you
to feel like you want me in other places as well,
and the other person is like, well, hey, listen, if
we had sex more, I'd really be more open to that.
So focusing on those micro moments where you're sharing a
(08:18):
hug that doesn't lead anywhere, you know, it's just a
big hug, connecting, laughing about your kids, like figuring out
how you can find those little like like literally ten
seconds of connection outside the bedroom.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
We're talking with doctor Rebecca Udi. Her book is called
Parents in Love A Guide to Great Sex After Kids,
and the doctor's last name is e U d Y.
Let me switch gears for a bit, and I may
come back to this. But one of the other things
that you cover a bit is the impact on the kids,
(08:58):
assuming your kids are still of an age where they're
living with you, the impact on the kids of a
relationship between the parents that isn't as close as it
used to be. And I don't mean like parents that
obviously hate each other and should get divorced. That's a
whole different thing, but more like parents that still love
each other but they're kind of struggling in some of
(09:18):
these ways.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Can you address that a bit?
Speaker 4 (09:22):
Yeah, absolutely, so, you know, I think we all know
that that scenario that you should talking about, Like, you know,
if my husband and I are not getting along, if
we're like arguing or whatever, our kids are much more reactive,
they're going to be you know, their behavior, they're much
less regulated. So we see this, you know, this makes
sense in our family. But the relationship, the connection between
(09:45):
parents is the emotional home that your kids grow up in,
and so when that bond is tended, when it's strong,
that sort of helps the whole central nervous system of
the family to be more regulated, to feel more safe
in the home. And that's not necessarily only the relationship
between the parents, of course, you know, it's also the
(10:06):
relationship between the parents and the kids, and the kids
and each other. But the relationship between the parents is
the foundation of the home.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
So my listeners know, because I talk about it openly
on the air that some years ago I found myself
with a few things going on, bad sleep, slow steady
weight gain, little brain fog. Wasn't really having libido issues,
but anyway, all that led to testosterone supplementation for me.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
And that's great.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
And I find at my age that my libido level
is maybe not what it was when I was eighteen,
but it is what it was when I was thirty five, right,
even though I'm a lot older than thirty five now.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
And I wonder whether there is a You.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Actually touched on this before, so I know the answer
is yes, But I want to get more detail hormonal
aspects of libido for women. Is there a role for
testosterone supplementation or something.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Else for women? Could that be?
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Could there be a physiological component to this as well
as psychological.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
Absolutely, yes, absolutely so for women. The hormone fluctuations for
women are huge and monthly, and we're not even talking
about like pregnancy, postpartum, breastfeeding, perimenopause, metopause. Those are the
big events, but even just in a monthly cycle, there's
(11:45):
weeks or days where if you have a partner who's
a woman, they are going to be much more open,
They may be much more likely to have more of
that spontaneous desire.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
And so it.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
Doesn't mean that desire is not able to be accessed
or pleasure is not able to be accessed outside of
these sort of like hormonal windows, because those can be
difficult to touch on, especially if you're in the stage
where you know, you have a partner who's directly postpartum,
or you yourself are postpartum, or you're breastfeeding, or you're
in perimenopause or metopause.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
These are big shifts.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
It just means that more more tending needs to happen
ahead of time, more of that paying attention to the
responsive desire, what feels good in the body, what sort
of these conditions you know. And I use that term
lightly because I think that and the reason why I'm
using that term is because I think that sometimes for
the partner, it ends up feeling like the conditions have
(12:42):
to be met. It's like, you know, the stars have
to align and lightning has to strike in order for
their partner to be open to being sexual. But really
a lot of that is a misunderstanding of how that
desire actually works on both people's parts, not just the
higher desire part.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Okay, that's good, but I don't think it answered my
question on whether testosterone or any other supplementation could be helpful.
And it does sound like the answer might differ based
on whether the woman has reached menopause or not, but
I'm not sure about that.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
Yeah, so HRT hormone replacement therapy can be really helpful
for many physical and psychological symptoms during perimenopause and metopause.
You know, the thing is is, I don't prescribe hormone
replacement therapy, but I do know from working with a
(13:42):
number of clients around metopause and perimenopause that this can
be really huge and really really make a huge impact.
You know, the monthly hormonal shifts of the you know,
the month's monthly menstrual cycle, or during breastfeeding, during postpartum.
You know, testosterone supplements probably are not appropriate during those times.
(14:04):
We just you know, work with the hormone fluctuations. But
absolutely during the metopause and perimenopause that the desire can
can definitely be affected by those hormones, and replacement therapy
can be you know, really helpful.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
All Right, last thing for you.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
I'm president of the Bad Analogy Club, and I'm afraid
to say to you that your thing that you've got
in the book is too good an analogy for you
to join the club. So you're gonna have to work
on that. But the thing about a lightning bolt versus
a campfire? Can you talk about that a little bit
and then maybe later you can work harder on a
(14:42):
worse analogy and try to get into the club.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
I'm sure that there were probably some worst analogies in
the first draft. Yeah, So the lightning bolt versus the campire.
So the lightning bolt is that spontaneous desire You're just
walking down the street and it sort of hits you
like a lightning bolt, or can think of it as
a light switch even on off, like all of a sudden, yep,
let's go. And that type of desire does tend to
(15:08):
be more governed by t stosterone, so men are more
likely to feel more of that.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
Kind of desire.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
Also, women in early, early relationships are more likely to
feel that kind of desire than in a long term relationship.
The campfire is more of that responsive It needs to
be tended, and so you really need to think of
that as starting way before you get into the sexual situation.
(15:36):
So if your partner is somebody who has more responsive desire,
thinking about, you know, doing the dishes, being emotionally supportive,
focusing on those micro moments, it all of that fuels
the campfire because by the time you get into the
sexual situation, Yes, the foreplay is really important, getting sort
(16:01):
of in the mood from a physical perspective is really important,
But you have to start with willingness and all of
the things that happen outside the bedroom, things that might
build either goodwill or build resentment, really affect the willingness
to even be able to put yourself in a sexual
situation where you might become aroused or have desire.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Yeah, and I do really like that campfire metaphor, right,
I mean, you might start a campfire half an hour
or an hour or something before you're gonna go cook
to some moores, right, correct?
Speaker 2 (16:36):
And I correct?
Speaker 3 (16:37):
And you're gathering wood a lot before that too.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Is that a wood pun?
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Yeah? Sure was. Doctor Rebecca Udi's book is Parents in Love,
A Guide to Great Sex after Kids.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Thanks for the great conversation.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
On a really important topic that actually matters to my
life and I'm sure many many listeners. And congratulations on
and writing your first book.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Great achievement.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Thanks so much for having me
I appreciate your company, and this topic showed up in
my email and I thought, you know what, this is,
this outside of what I normally kind.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Of talk about.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
But I think so many people in my audience can
relate to what we're going to talk about right now
with doctor Rebecca Udi, and I can relate to it
as well, Like, you know what, we really need to
do this.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
So doctor Udy just wrote her first.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Book, which is an amazing achievement in which I will
probably never achieve, and it's called Parents in Love, A
Guide to Great Sex after Kids. So Doc, first of all,
thanks for being here on KOA.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
It's good to have you.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Thanks for having me, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
What is the name of the dog sitting behind you
on the chair.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
His name is Acorn.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
That is a good dog name, Hi Acorn. See if
he looks up the kids named him.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
You know, they always come up with the best stuff,
all right.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
So if we generalize the issue, well, we're going to
talk about a couple of different issues.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
If we generalize this issue as.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
After a certain point in a marriage and especially after children,
the romantic life doesn't feel as romantic as it used to.
So my first question for you is how big a
problem is this?
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Well, I think that there's two answers to that.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
One is that it is affects almost every relationship. So
what we're really talking about here is this diminished desire.
But it's not really a problem unless it's a problem
in the relationship, if you get me. So, if you
have two people who both have matching desire that's relatively
(01:45):
low or relatively high, then it's not a problem at all.
But when it becomes a problem is when there's a
difference in desire, and that affects almost all couples at
some point in a long term relationship.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Okay, so I'm sure you are well aware since you
are a licensed sex therapist as well as couples therapists
and all of this other stuff that you do. I'm
sure you are aware that as young men, we are
programmed to believe that men want sex and women don't
care very much, which of course is not true, but
(02:20):
that is how that's how we, you know, grow up
in high school.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
And college and all that.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
I would like to know whether that sort of urban
legend has an actual grain of truth when it comes
to the population that we're talking about now, with couples
that are not just married, but married and old enough
and been together long enough that they've got kids.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Yeah, so there's a lot in there.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
And I think that it's a really good it's a
really good question, because yes, research tells us that on average,
men tend to have higher desire than women.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
That it's not the.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
Difference is not as big as what you might think.
But testosterone governs spontaneous desire, which is that thing that
happens when you're walking down the street and you're like, dang,
all right, I'm ready to go. So, but the other
kind of desire is responsive desire, which happens when you're
in a situation, and a lot of times the desire
doesn't show up until after physical arousal.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Starts to kick in.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
And that is more common in women, certainly possible in
both men and women. But the other part of what
you said, which I think is so important, which is
that young men are conditioned to think that the way
that they get love belonging connection is through sex and
so and women are not conditioned to be able to
(03:43):
ask for what they want or express what their desire is.
And so women are much more comfortable approaching in an
emotional way for connection, and men tend to be much
more comfortable approaching in a more sexual way for connection.
And so that sort of compound this already sort of
biological desire difference that exists.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
So the first thing you said there I relate to
very much in that. You know, sometimes I just like
I'm quote unquote in the mood like I want to
fool around, and I go to my wife and like,
ask her if she wants to fool around, she's Her
answer is always the same, I don't work that way.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
You can't cold call me.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
You gotta warm me up a little bit, you know,
a foot massage, a neck massage, something, because I don't
work like that. And she's been very she's very consistent
with that. But that falls perfectly into what you just said.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
Yeah, it sounds like you guys are classic spontaneous versus
responsive desire.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Yeah, and you know one is not better or worse.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
But you have to understand that someone who has more
responsive desire is approaching being sexual from a place of willingness.
It's not from a place of desire. So they might
be kind of curious, kind of willing to be warmed up.
So if you get to warm me up a little bit.
That's that's good, that's great. You see where that goes. Yeah, right,
but you have to respect that the willingness.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
It doesn't feel quite as satisfying as that I have
to have you right away.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yeah, yeah, that's all right.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
I mean I'll take what I can get, even you know,
I got to remind myself to work for it a
little bit. Now, let's get back more on the specific
topic then, of reduced desire at a point in a
relationship after kids and you know, beyond what we just
talked about, there, you know, warm her up a little bit,
which could be true even before you have kids.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
I want to talk a little bit about.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Some of the specifics of the kinds of advice you
find yourself giving frequently to people who might be in
their forties and fifties and sixties.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Absolutely so.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
I think before kids, we probably were already warming each
other up without really meaning to. You know, there's days planned,
there's romance, there's talking, there's connecting, there's vulnerability happening. And
then after kids, you know, the sort of minutia of
life just takes over. It becomes all about schedules. None
of that's really all that sexy. Caregiving is not sexy,
(06:15):
and so it is natural that desire sort of gets
suppressed by all of that dirty laundry and schedules and
you know, be feeling like an uber driver, and so
it does tend to get buried. And then on top
of that, also there's hormonal changes, you know, aging bodies,
Like libido does naturally decrease as people age. So I
(06:39):
would say that the thing is is that this is
very normal. But some of the best advice that I
can give to couples, and the thing that I ask
couples to start with is by taking the pressure off.
So if in your sex life it started, it starts
to feel like sort of high pressure. One person is
a high desire and one person's a lower desire, and
(07:02):
one person's always initiating, and then you know, it sort
of feels like this thing that you can't really talk about,
and it's this source of tension in your relationship. Chances
are there's going to be some pressure there and that
additionally kills any desire that might be there to find.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Okay, so that sounds close to my marriage, maybe not
quite all the way there, but in that direction.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
So what do you do about it?
Speaker 3 (07:29):
So you mean, what do I do? How do you
take the pressure off?
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
So one of the first things that you can do
to take the pressure off is by trying to connect
in other ways as well. So focusing on the micro
moments of connection, because the thing is is that partnered
sex is about connection. Yeah, it feels good, but it's
not only about release. It's not only about the physicality
of sex. It's about connecting with someone that you want
(07:55):
to be with, and so focusing on other ways that
you can connect. A lot of time what happens is
that one partner is saying, hey, I want to connect emotionally,
I want your support, I want you know, for you
to feel like you want me in other places as well,
and the other person is like, well, hey, listen, if
we had sex more, I'd really be more open to that.
So focusing on those micro moments where you're sharing a
(08:18):
hug that doesn't lead anywhere, you know, it's just a
big hug, connecting, laughing about your kids, like figuring out
how you can find those little like like literally ten
seconds of connection outside the bedroom.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
We're talking with doctor Rebecca Udi. Her book is called
Parents in Love A Guide to Great Sex After Kids,
and the doctor's last name is e U d Y.
Let me switch gears for a bit, and I may
come back to this. But one of the other things
that you cover a bit is the impact on the kids,
(08:58):
assuming your kids are still of an age where they're
living with you, the impact on the kids of a
relationship between the parents that isn't as close as it
used to be. And I don't mean like parents that
obviously hate each other and should get divorced. That's a
whole different thing, but more like parents that still love
each other but they're kind of struggling in some of
(09:18):
these ways.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Can you address that a bit?
Speaker 4 (09:22):
Yeah, absolutely, so, you know, I think we all know
that that scenario that you should talking about, Like, you know,
if my husband and I are not getting along, if
we're like arguing or whatever, our kids are much more reactive,
they're going to be you know, their behavior, they're much
less regulated. So we see this, you know, this makes
sense in our family. But the relationship, the connection between
(09:45):
parents is the emotional home that your kids grow up in,
and so when that bond is tended, when it's strong,
that sort of helps the whole central nervous system of
the family to be more regulated, to feel more safe
in the home. And that's not necessarily only the relationship
between the parents, of course, you know, it's also the
(10:06):
relationship between the parents and the kids, and the kids
and each other. But the relationship between the parents is
the foundation of the home.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
So my listeners know, because I talk about it openly
on the air that some years ago I found myself
with a few things going on, bad sleep, slow steady
weight gain, little brain fog. Wasn't really having libido issues,
but anyway, all that led to testosterone supplementation for me.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
And that's great.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
And I find at my age that my libido level
is maybe not what it was when I was eighteen,
but it is what it was when I was thirty five, right,
even though I'm a lot older than thirty five now.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
And I wonder whether there is a You.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Actually touched on this before, so I know the answer
is yes, But I want to get more detail hormonal
aspects of libido for women. Is there a role for
testosterone supplementation or something.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Else for women? Could that be?
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Could there be a physiological component to this as well
as psychological.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
Absolutely, yes, absolutely so for women. The hormone fluctuations for
women are huge and monthly, and we're not even talking
about like pregnancy, postpartum, breastfeeding, perimenopause, metopause. Those are the
big events, but even just in a monthly cycle, there's
(11:45):
weeks or days where if you have a partner who's
a woman, they are going to be much more open,
They may be much more likely to have more of
that spontaneous desire.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
And so it.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
Doesn't mean that desire is not able to be accessed
or pleasure is not able to be accessed outside of
these sort of like hormonal windows, because those can be
difficult to touch on, especially if you're in the stage
where you know, you have a partner who's directly postpartum,
or you yourself are postpartum, or you're breastfeeding, or you're
in perimenopause or metopause.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
These are big shifts.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
It just means that more more tending needs to happen
ahead of time, more of that paying attention to the
responsive desire, what feels good in the body, what sort
of these conditions you know. And I use that term
lightly because I think that and the reason why I'm
using that term is because I think that sometimes for
the partner, it ends up feeling like the conditions have
(12:42):
to be met. It's like, you know, the stars have
to align and lightning has to strike in order for
their partner to be open to being sexual. But really
a lot of that is a misunderstanding of how that
desire actually works on both people's parts, not just the
higher desire part.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Okay, that's good, but I don't think it answered my
question on whether testosterone or any other supplementation could be helpful.
And it does sound like the answer might differ based
on whether the woman has reached menopause or not, but
I'm not sure about that.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
Yeah, so HRT hormone replacement therapy can be really helpful
for many physical and psychological symptoms during perimenopause and metopause.
You know, the thing is is, I don't prescribe hormone
replacement therapy, but I do know from working with a
(13:42):
number of clients around metopause and perimenopause that this can
be really huge and really really make a huge impact.
You know, the monthly hormonal shifts of the you know,
the month's monthly menstrual cycle, or during breastfeeding, during postpartum.
You know, testosterone supplements probably are not appropriate during those times.
(14:04):
We just you know, work with the hormone fluctuations. But
absolutely during the metopause and perimenopause that the desire can
can definitely be affected by those hormones, and replacement therapy
can be you know, really helpful.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
All Right, last thing for you.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
I'm president of the Bad Analogy Club, and I'm afraid
to say to you that your thing that you've got
in the book is too good an analogy for you
to join the club. So you're gonna have to work
on that. But the thing about a lightning bolt versus
a campfire? Can you talk about that a little bit
and then maybe later you can work harder on a
(14:42):
worse analogy and try to get into the club.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
I'm sure that there were probably some worst analogies in
the first draft. Yeah, So the lightning bolt versus the campire.
So the lightning bolt is that spontaneous desire You're just
walking down the street and it sort of hits you
like a lightning bolt, or can think of it as
a light switch even on off, like all of a sudden, yep,
let's go. And that type of desire does tend to
(15:08):
be more governed by t stosterone, so men are more
likely to feel more of that.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
Kind of desire.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
Also, women in early, early relationships are more likely to
feel that kind of desire than in a long term relationship.
The campfire is more of that responsive It needs to
be tended, and so you really need to think of
that as starting way before you get into the sexual situation.
(15:36):
So if your partner is somebody who has more responsive desire,
thinking about, you know, doing the dishes, being emotionally supportive,
focusing on those micro moments, it all of that fuels
the campfire because by the time you get into the
sexual situation, Yes, the foreplay is really important, getting sort
(16:01):
of in the mood from a physical perspective is really important,
But you have to start with willingness and all of
the things that happen outside the bedroom, things that might
build either goodwill or build resentment, really affect the willingness
to even be able to put yourself in a sexual
situation where you might become aroused or have desire.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Yeah, and I do really like that campfire metaphor, right,
I mean, you might start a campfire half an hour
or an hour or something before you're gonna go cook
to some moores, right, correct?
Speaker 2 (16:36):
And I correct?
Speaker 3 (16:37):
And you're gathering wood a lot before that too.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Is that a wood pun?
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Yeah? Sure was. Doctor Rebecca Udi's book is Parents in Love,
A Guide to Great Sex after Kids.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Thanks for the great conversation.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
On a really important topic that actually matters to my
life and I'm sure many many listeners. And congratulations on
and writing your first book.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Great achievement.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Thanks so much for having me
The Ross Kaminsky Show News
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