Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yaron Brook is one of my one of my favorite people, one.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Of my true inspirations.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Yeah, Yaron was president and is now executive chairman of
the Iron Rand Institute, and he hosts The Yaron brook Show.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
By the ways, y A R O N. And you
probably know how to spell Brook.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
He hosts The Aaron Brooks Show, which is available on
YouTube and as a podcast, and is just one of
the most steadfast defenders you will ever find of reason
and individual liberty. And he's going to be doing a
live stream event coming up soon that I wanted to
talk with him about.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
And also all kinds of other things. So, Hi, Eron,
good to see you.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Hey, it's great to see you Ross. Thanks for all
the comments, appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Why don't we just start with the with the overt
plug for the event you've got coming up.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
What do you want to tell us?
Speaker 4 (00:53):
Yes, I'm going to be in actually gonna be in
Colorado next week November seventh, so that'll be two days
after the election. I'm doing an event with Tom cran
with another defender of liberty and a strong advocate for freedom,
and Mike Williams from Defenders of Capitalism Projects, and we're
doing it basically a post election analysis. But what's a
(01:16):
focus on. How do we how do we think about
the future. How do we move towards the future with
more freedom and more liberty? Because I mean, no matter
how you're going to vote this election, the reality is
we're not moving towards more freedom and more liberty. You
might argue that one candidate will take us into most
statism faster than the other one, but neither one of
(01:37):
them is a pro liberty, pro freedom candidate. How do
we reverse this? How do we change course? Because it's
just getting depressing these choices that we get of you November,
so you know we're doing it live, but I think
I think we're almost sold out on the life tickets.
You can get a you can attend Life streaming, which
I think you'll be a lot of fun.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
I think be an interesting conversation.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
Tom and I get along and we'll feed off of
each other, I think, really well, and bring an interesting perspective.
You can access it then Defenders of Capitalism dot com.
You get all the links to the event and Defenders
of Capitalism dot com. It's called Beyond the Ballot, an
Evening with You on book and Tom Cranwi.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Him and folks.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
This is all linked on my blog at Rosskominsky dot
com if you forget any of that, or again super
easy to remember Defenders of Capitalism dot com. So uh,
probably just a couple of tickets left to.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Do the in person thing.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
And my listeners, of course are well acquinted acquainted with
Tom Crane. Winner is also a good friend of mine
and been on the show many times. I hope, I
hope I have a chance to see you when in person,
while you're while you're in town, you're on So let's
let's follow up on one of the key points you're
making there.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I want to talk about this a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
I I actually have spent very little time on my
own show talking about my vote in the presidential race
because I'm so discussed by it all, really and also
because I don't think I'm going to change anybody's mind,
and also because I live in such a blue state
that it really doesn't matter as far as the presidential race.
And I have I have for most of my adult
(03:15):
life voted libertarian and presidential elections, I voted Republican a
couple of times.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
I've never voted for a Democrat. And I'll just put
it this way.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Other than perhaps my first vote for Harry Brown back
in the day, a name you might remember, I have,
I have never felt more at ease and more entirely
comfortable voting libertarian.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
As I as I do this year.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Oh oh, we'll.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
Get a disagree on that one.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
The Libertarian Party is just a disaster. It really is
a disaster.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
And it's primarily because of its fun policy.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Yeah, it's just awful.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
It's anti is Israel's anti equine, it's you know, So
my view is, I am you know, I can't vote
because I I'll say, I live in Puerto Rico.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
I can't vote unpresidential.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
But if I lived in the US and the mainland,
I wouldn't vote, and I would be completely at ease
not voting, because yeah, there really is nobody who represents
even a mission of my values in this election, not
even a little bit.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
I consider all of them anti American. Uh.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
If you understand America as the America the founding, if
you understand of America as the land of individualism and
and and liberty and freedom and capitalism, then.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
They're all anti that.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
They're all against that, they all hate that, and you
know the real question among the candidates is who's going
to do the least damage, right, and and who knows?
Speaker 3 (04:44):
How do you even tell?
Speaker 1 (04:46):
How do you know? So all right, So I take
your point, and I had not I had actually not
gone to look at what Chase Oliver said about Israel
and and Ukraine also.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
So that that's a fair point.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
And I probably should check that because.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
I had been thinking. I made this decision so.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Long ago before there was you know, and so I
really I really should go check that.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
And I agree with you. The Libertarian Party is a mess.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
And so when in my mind and out loud, I
say to you, I'm comfortable voting libertarian, I suppose what
I really meant to say was I'm entirely comfortable not
voting for the Republican and I would never vote for
this for I've never voted for a Democrat, and I
certainly wouldn't start with this one.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
So that's I probably could have put it put it
a little better. But I take your point.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
But do you think you are deeply committed to individual liberty?
Do you think that the availability the presence of individual liberty,
it's declining presence in the United States of America.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Is that a pendulum or is that a ratchet?
Speaker 3 (05:53):
No, it's a ratchet. It keeps getting worse.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
I mean, yeah, you could argue we had a little
bit of a uptick with Ronald Reagan, but it didn't
last very long because I don't think it was principled enough.
But generally, over the last one hundred and fifty years,
certainly in the realm of economics, we have seen over
the last hundred years, we've seen a steady systematic decline
(06:16):
in individual liberty, really since the days of Woodwell Wilson,
so that's one hundred and ten twenty years.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
And then in other realms we've seen maybe an increase
in liberty.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
You know, if you're black, or if you're gay, or
if you're a little different in some other way, maybe
you are a little bit freer today than you were
one hundred years ago.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
But it's certainly in terms.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
Of economic liberty it's declining. And while I think we
live in a period where we relatively have a lot
of free speech in the Supreme Court has been pretty
good in free speech.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Over the last few years, both of these candidates.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
Both Trump and Kamala, making statements that really really really
should worry everybody if you care about free speech, which
is one of the you know, one of the pillars
of individual liberty is ability to speak and write and
communicate freely.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Okay, so let's let's stick with this particular aspect. What
is it that, just briefly, give us one example of
a statement from each of the two major party candidates
that represent to you a threat to free speech.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
Well, I think on the Democrat side, it's been pretty
explicit that they want to be able to regulate social
media and the speech that occurs on social media to
read in I guess alone, Musk and Act and Twitter,
and and you know, the whole idea of.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Of misinformation and disinformation.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
As legitimate areas for censorship by the government. I mean,
that is a disaster, unimitigated disaster, you know.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
And and then Trump.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
Basically comes out and says he is going to go
after newspapers who who attack him and disagree with him.
He he is, you know, actively stating that he's interested
in silencing.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Silencing his critics.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Now, you know, with.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Trump, it's more personal, as everything is with Trump.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
With Kamala, it's more you know, more principled, but they're
both antagonists to free speech.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Both of them reject the idea of.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
Free speech of just leaving us alone, let it, let us,
let us say whatever we want to say.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Your job as a government. The only job of a government.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
Is to protect the ability to speak, to protect ability
to speak against people using force against us to prevent
us speaking. Other than that, everything else is private arrangements.
If Elon Musk wants to silence me.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
It's his business.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
It's his it's his platform. It's not an issue of
free speech.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
If if if, if you know, Islamic terrorists are going
to toach my bookstore for.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Carrying certain books, that's.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
Where the government needs to step in and protect my
right to publish what if I want.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
So there are many versions of the same argument that
go around, and I actually just I got a twist
on one here and a listener text to So the
argument that you and I have both heard an infinite
number of times is this is a binary choice.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
If you don't.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Vote for A, that's effectively a vote for B. And
of course it's mathematically wrong. And also it assumes that
I would normally vote for A. Like for me, I
normally vote libertarian, but anyway. So I'm gonna ask you
two different versions of this, but I'll start with one
(09:39):
because you've heard it a thousand times. What is your
answer to the it's a binary choice, So either Kama's
gonna be president or Donald Trump's gonna be president, So
you better pick one otherwise you're just like weaseling out.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
That's It's absolutely true that it's a binary choice. It's
absolutely true that one of them is going to be president.
And I don't want it on my conscience that I
approved by voting for either one of them to be president.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
That is it's on you guys. You guys vote in
the primaries.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
You guys selected these choices. You guys like them, you
guys vote for them, you guys elect the president. I'm
sitting this one out because I cannot in full conscious
vote for either one of these anti American, anti capitalist,
anti individual rights, anti everything I believe in candidates.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
You are by voting for one of them, you are
actively looking to destroy America.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
So sit it out.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
If fifty percent of the American population set it out,
maybe the political parties would get would get the message,
maybe something would change by voting for the same for
candidates who progressively every single election get worse, get more
anti American. You are perpetuating a system that generates that
leads us to authoritarianism, that leads us away from liberty
(11:01):
and freedom.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
So I will note that on Twitter, and we follow
each other on Twitter, so you may have seen my tweets.
I have used the exact same language that you used.
I will not have either Kamala Harris or Donald Trump
on my conscience.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
So I'm right there. I'm right there with you.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Now, let me share with you two listener texts that
are making similar points. And again, these relate to things
you've heard a thousand times, but I want folks to.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Hear this from someone other than me.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Uh So, one one listener says, didn't Trump's last term
do you any good? And my answer is yeah, in
some ways, in some ways it did. Just to that
part of the question, you know, obviously, the implied follow
up is why would you not vote for him?
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Now? And then?
Speaker 1 (11:50):
And then the other listener says, so your guest would
be fine helping worse win over bad Supreme judges alone
make it clear for me to vote for Trump, no
matter how much his rhetoric is annoying. So those are
two versions of the same argument that on this thing
(12:10):
or that thing, Trump is a little better or Trump
was okay for you kind of sort of in in
his first term, so therefore shouldn't you vote for him?
Speaker 3 (12:21):
No, And and for two reasons.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
One, you know, while this being court justices are better
in some.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Aspects, they're really really bad on others. And Wos's wad
is a good example of that.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
I thought repealing Wobs's wade is a disaster and and
and horrific and and and and a step backwards in
terms of individual rights, in terms of individual liberty, But
that of course opens a whole can of wombs. But
then in terms it wasn't I better off.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
On a Trump?
Speaker 3 (12:51):
No, no, No.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
Trump moved us away from what America stands for. He
moved us away from that, infromt pause, he moved us
away from that.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
In domestic policy.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
He moved us towards a much more centrally involved government
in things.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Like trade, in things like in in in business and
how businesses should operate.
Speaker 4 (13:17):
He he pretended he was CEO of American business giving
for you know, calling up CEOs and telling them where
they where they what plants they should close, or what.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
They should open, and where they should place their businesses.
I don't. I think that's a huge.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
Step backwards from a president who for the most part
leaves business alone other than through the regulatory agencies. Now,
Trump loosened up some regulations, but not in any any
way that was sustainable, So no laws passed. He didn't
get rid of Obamacare, which you remember he promised.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
He built a stupid wall.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
He emphasized the whole issue of immigration.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
Which I think has really really really done harm to
this country, the whole focus and uh and obsession and
anger and fear of immigrants as being a really really
really step backwards again from individual freedom and for capitalism
in this country.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
And I think Van Possey wise.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
Here's a president who literally admired Putin.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
She all go on in in in in Turkey.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
Here is a president and of course his best buddy
is is who wrote level letters to each other, the.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Brutal dictator of North Korea.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
Here's a president who groveled before all four of these
dictators and who set us up for you know, for
even week Abiden administration. But you know, he's the guy
who sided a piece to deal with the Taliban.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
I don't know about you.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
Guys, but just that would disqualify somebody for me for
being president.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Okay, So you know, here's a guy completely botched COVID.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
He's this is the his job, right, He's the president
of the unit, completely botched COVID from day one, and
yet here he.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Is back, and you guys want to forgive him.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
And I'm not even mentioning January sixth and his denial
of the fact that he lost the election and what
that suggests about.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
All right, so just let me let me jump in here.
Let me jump in here. Just we got about we
got about four minutes left.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
So I don't I don't disagree with you often, but
actually disagree on a whole bunch of things you said,
so I'll just mention them quickly.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
It was absolutely right to overturn Roe v.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Wade because there is no federal authority about abortion, and
I am pro choice, but overturning Roe v. Wade was
correct as a matter of constitutional law, and I'm glad
they did it. I comment that, yeah, quickly though, Can
I comment to that?
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Yeah? Quickly.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
There's the Ninth Amendment.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
A woman has a right to do with her body
if she pleases take drugs, prostitute yourself and hip out
a bab whip out a fetus from her thing. There's
that is a that is a that is a right
installed by the Declaration of Independence. So she has a
right to her own life or right to your own body. Suddenly,
when she's got a fetus in sight, she loses that right.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
I don't get it. Now.
Speaker 4 (15:58):
It's true, does not do enough to protect now individual rights.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
But there was an example the way by accident.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
Rovs's wait actually protected a right, and the Republicans.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Stick it away. I get it, and I think you're wrong.
I think that Trump on the border, I think there
was an issue there. I don't think the wall was
necessarily stupid. I don't think you need a physical wall.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
For all of it. There are other things.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
It is true that he overplayed immigration a lot and
made people fear immigrants and all that.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
I didn't like it.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
I think it's actually but then you look at Biden
and Harris.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
They went out of their way to.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Undo everything that Trump did to get control of the border,
just to undo Trump. And what they did, what they
allowed was this massive tsunami of illegaliens, including as you
know from the national stories, a lot of crime around
here from them, and they're the ones now who have
actually been the ones who have turned Americans again illegal immigrants.
(17:01):
And support for mass deportation is much higher now than
it was under Trump because of what these guys did.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
There's more than I disagreed with you, though, but I'm
almost at a time so you can.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
Mostly made it a national issue and who demonized the
immigrants at day one. And of course the solution, the solution,
I have to say this for illegal immigration is to
legalize it. That is the solution for legal immigration is
to make it legal, to allow people to come here
if they can get a job, to come into the
United States, and then you solve the boarder problem.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
It goes away completely.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
And that nobody is offering neither Democrats, no Republicans, neither
one of them actually want the pro.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Freed and pro liberty solution for immigration.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
I have to say I will never forgive Republican base
voters for making Donald Trump the nominee again Republicans. You know,
even though Republicans are not nearly as pro freedom as
I would like, as Yuron would like, they could have
found a candidate that you're on or I could tolerate,
(18:03):
and they picked like the one that we couldn't.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
I'll give you the last twenty nine seconds.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
I mean what we need in this country is a
complete reset ideologically, and a reset that kind of reboots
the founders, reboots the principles on which this country was founded.
And only by doing that do we have a future,
because the way the country is going right now, we're
heading towards disaster no matter who wins this election.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
I wish i'd disagreed with you on that one, but
I don't. I think you're right.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Aaron Brook is going to be giving a fascinating or
not giving a talk. You'll be involved in a panel
with my friend Mike Williams and with doctor Tom cran Winner.
And it's on November seventh, and there's still I think
a couple of tickets available for the live event here
in the Denver area, and you could also live stream
at wherever you are. It's going to be starting at
(18:57):
six thirty pm on November seventh, and it's called Beyond
the Ballot and you can get all the information at
Defendersofcapitalism dot com. If you forget any of that, just
go to my website at Roscominsky dot com. It's all
there too, Yeah, Ron, I hope to see you while
you're in town and we can agree and disagree more.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
I hope so too.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Look forward to it all right, Thanks you, Ery, Thanks Josh,
appreciate it.
Yaron Brook is one of my one of my favorite people, one.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Of my true inspirations.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Yeah, Yaron was president and is now executive chairman of
the Iron Rand Institute, and he hosts The Yaron brook Show.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
By the ways, y A R O N. And you
probably know how to spell Brook.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
He hosts The Aaron Brooks Show, which is available on
YouTube and as a podcast, and is just one of
the most steadfast defenders you will ever find of reason
and individual liberty. And he's going to be doing a
live stream event coming up soon that I wanted to
talk with him about.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
And also all kinds of other things. So, Hi, Eron,
good to see you.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Hey, it's great to see you Ross. Thanks for all
the comments, appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Why don't we just start with the with the overt
plug for the event you've got coming up.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
What do you want to tell us?
Speaker 4 (00:53):
Yes, I'm going to be in actually gonna be in
Colorado next week November seventh, so that'll be two days
after the election. I'm doing an event with Tom cran
with another defender of liberty and a strong advocate for freedom,
and Mike Williams from Defenders of Capitalism Projects, and we're
doing it basically a post election analysis. But what's a
(01:16):
focus on. How do we how do we think about
the future. How do we move towards the future with
more freedom and more liberty? Because I mean, no matter
how you're going to vote this election, the reality is
we're not moving towards more freedom and more liberty. You
might argue that one candidate will take us into most
statism faster than the other one, but neither one of
(01:37):
them is a pro liberty, pro freedom candidate. How do
we reverse this? How do we change course? Because it's
just getting depressing these choices that we get of you November,
so you know we're doing it live, but I think
I think we're almost sold out on the life tickets.
You can get a you can attend Life streaming, which
I think you'll be a lot of fun.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
I think be an interesting conversation.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
Tom and I get along and we'll feed off of
each other, I think, really well, and bring an interesting perspective.
You can access it then Defenders of Capitalism dot com.
You get all the links to the event and Defenders
of Capitalism dot com. It's called Beyond the Ballot, an
Evening with You on book and Tom Cranwi.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Him and folks.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
This is all linked on my blog at Rosskominsky dot
com if you forget any of that, or again super
easy to remember Defenders of Capitalism dot com. So uh,
probably just a couple of tickets left to.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Do the in person thing.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
And my listeners, of course are well acquinted acquainted with
Tom Crane. Winner is also a good friend of mine
and been on the show many times. I hope, I
hope I have a chance to see you when in person,
while you're while you're in town, you're on So let's
let's follow up on one of the key points you're
making there.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I want to talk about this a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
I I actually have spent very little time on my
own show talking about my vote in the presidential race
because I'm so discussed by it all, really and also
because I don't think I'm going to change anybody's mind,
and also because I live in such a blue state
that it really doesn't matter as far as the presidential race.
And I have I have for most of my adult
(03:15):
life voted libertarian and presidential elections, I voted Republican a
couple of times.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
I've never voted for a Democrat. And I'll just put
it this way.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Other than perhaps my first vote for Harry Brown back
in the day, a name you might remember, I have,
I have never felt more at ease and more entirely
comfortable voting libertarian.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
As I as I do this year.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Oh oh, we'll.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
Get a disagree on that one.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
The Libertarian Party is just a disaster. It really is
a disaster.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
And it's primarily because of its fun policy.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Yeah, it's just awful.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
It's anti is Israel's anti equine, it's you know, So
my view is, I am you know, I can't vote
because I I'll say, I live in Puerto Rico.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
I can't vote unpresidential.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
But if I lived in the US and the mainland,
I wouldn't vote, and I would be completely at ease
not voting, because yeah, there really is nobody who represents
even a mission of my values in this election, not
even a little bit.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
I consider all of them anti American. Uh.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
If you understand America as the America the founding, if
you understand of America as the land of individualism and
and and liberty and freedom and capitalism, then.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
They're all anti that.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
They're all against that, they all hate that, and you
know the real question among the candidates is who's going
to do the least damage, right, and and who knows?
Speaker 3 (04:44):
How do you even tell?
Speaker 1 (04:46):
How do you know? So all right, So I take
your point, and I had not I had actually not
gone to look at what Chase Oliver said about Israel
and and Ukraine also.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
So that that's a fair point.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
And I probably should check that because.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
I had been thinking. I made this decision so.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Long ago before there was you know, and so I
really I really should go check that.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
And I agree with you. The Libertarian Party is a mess.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
And so when in my mind and out loud, I
say to you, I'm comfortable voting libertarian, I suppose what
I really meant to say was I'm entirely comfortable not
voting for the Republican and I would never vote for
this for I've never voted for a Democrat, and I
certainly wouldn't start with this one.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
So that's I probably could have put it put it
a little better. But I take your point.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
But do you think you are deeply committed to individual liberty?
Do you think that the availability the presence of individual liberty,
it's declining presence in the United States of America.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Is that a pendulum or is that a ratchet?
Speaker 3 (05:53):
No, it's a ratchet. It keeps getting worse.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
I mean, yeah, you could argue we had a little
bit of a uptick with Ronald Reagan, but it didn't
last very long because I don't think it was principled enough.
But generally, over the last one hundred and fifty years,
certainly in the realm of economics, we have seen over
the last hundred years, we've seen a steady systematic decline
(06:16):
in individual liberty, really since the days of Woodwell Wilson,
so that's one hundred and ten twenty years.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
And then in other realms we've seen maybe an increase
in liberty.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
You know, if you're black, or if you're gay, or
if you're a little different in some other way, maybe
you are a little bit freer today than you were
one hundred years ago.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
But it's certainly in terms.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
Of economic liberty it's declining. And while I think we
live in a period where we relatively have a lot
of free speech in the Supreme Court has been pretty
good in free speech.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Over the last few years, both of these candidates.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
Both Trump and Kamala, making statements that really really really
should worry everybody if you care about free speech, which
is one of the you know, one of the pillars
of individual liberty is ability to speak and write and
communicate freely.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Okay, so let's let's stick with this particular aspect. What
is it that, just briefly, give us one example of
a statement from each of the two major party candidates
that represent to you a threat to free speech.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
Well, I think on the Democrat side, it's been pretty
explicit that they want to be able to regulate social
media and the speech that occurs on social media to
read in I guess alone, Musk and Act and Twitter,
and and you know, the whole idea of.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Of misinformation and disinformation.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
As legitimate areas for censorship by the government. I mean,
that is a disaster, unimitigated disaster, you know.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
And and then Trump.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
Basically comes out and says he is going to go
after newspapers who who attack him and disagree with him.
He he is, you know, actively stating that he's interested
in silencing.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Silencing his critics.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Now, you know, with.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Trump, it's more personal, as everything is with Trump.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
With Kamala, it's more you know, more principled, but they're
both antagonists to free speech.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Both of them reject the idea of.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
Free speech of just leaving us alone, let it, let us,
let us say whatever we want to say.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Your job as a government. The only job of a government.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
Is to protect the ability to speak, to protect ability
to speak against people using force against us to prevent
us speaking. Other than that, everything else is private arrangements.
If Elon Musk wants to silence me.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
It's his business.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
It's his it's his platform. It's not an issue of
free speech.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
If if if, if you know, Islamic terrorists are going
to toach my bookstore for.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Carrying certain books, that's.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
Where the government needs to step in and protect my
right to publish what if I want.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
So there are many versions of the same argument that
go around, and I actually just I got a twist
on one here and a listener text to So the
argument that you and I have both heard an infinite
number of times is this is a binary choice.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
If you don't.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Vote for A, that's effectively a vote for B. And
of course it's mathematically wrong. And also it assumes that
I would normally vote for A. Like for me, I
normally vote libertarian, but anyway. So I'm gonna ask you
two different versions of this, but I'll start with one
(09:39):
because you've heard it a thousand times. What is your
answer to the it's a binary choice, So either Kama's
gonna be president or Donald Trump's gonna be president, So
you better pick one otherwise you're just like weaseling out.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
That's It's absolutely true that it's a binary choice. It's
absolutely true that one of them is going to be president.
And I don't want it on my conscience that I
approved by voting for either one of them to be president.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
That is it's on you guys. You guys vote in
the primaries.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
You guys selected these choices. You guys like them, you
guys vote for them, you guys elect the president. I'm
sitting this one out because I cannot in full conscious
vote for either one of these anti American, anti capitalist,
anti individual rights, anti everything I believe in candidates.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
You are by voting for one of them, you are
actively looking to destroy America.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
So sit it out.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
If fifty percent of the American population set it out,
maybe the political parties would get would get the message,
maybe something would change by voting for the same for
candidates who progressively every single election get worse, get more
anti American. You are perpetuating a system that generates that
leads us to authoritarianism, that leads us away from liberty
(11:01):
and freedom.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
So I will note that on Twitter, and we follow
each other on Twitter, so you may have seen my tweets.
I have used the exact same language that you used.
I will not have either Kamala Harris or Donald Trump
on my conscience.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
So I'm right there. I'm right there with you.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Now, let me share with you two listener texts that
are making similar points. And again, these relate to things
you've heard a thousand times, but I want folks to.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Hear this from someone other than me.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Uh So, one one listener says, didn't Trump's last term
do you any good? And my answer is yeah, in
some ways, in some ways it did. Just to that
part of the question, you know, obviously, the implied follow
up is why would you not vote for him?
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Now? And then?
Speaker 1 (11:50):
And then the other listener says, so your guest would
be fine helping worse win over bad Supreme judges alone
make it clear for me to vote for Trump, no
matter how much his rhetoric is annoying. So those are
two versions of the same argument that on this thing
(12:10):
or that thing, Trump is a little better or Trump
was okay for you kind of sort of in in
his first term, so therefore shouldn't you vote for him?
Speaker 3 (12:21):
No, And and for two reasons.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
One, you know, while this being court justices are better
in some.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Aspects, they're really really bad on others. And Wos's wad
is a good example of that.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
I thought repealing Wobs's wade is a disaster and and
and horrific and and and and a step backwards in
terms of individual rights, in terms of individual liberty, But
that of course opens a whole can of wombs. But
then in terms it wasn't I better off.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
On a Trump?
Speaker 3 (12:51):
No, no, No.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
Trump moved us away from what America stands for. He
moved us away from that, infromt pause, he moved us
away from that.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
In domestic policy.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
He moved us towards a much more centrally involved government
in things.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Like trade, in things like in in in business and
how businesses should operate.
Speaker 4 (13:17):
He he pretended he was CEO of American business giving
for you know, calling up CEOs and telling them where
they where they what plants they should close, or what.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
They should open, and where they should place their businesses.
I don't. I think that's a huge.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
Step backwards from a president who for the most part
leaves business alone other than through the regulatory agencies. Now,
Trump loosened up some regulations, but not in any any
way that was sustainable, So no laws passed. He didn't
get rid of Obamacare, which you remember he promised.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
He built a stupid wall.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
He emphasized the whole issue of immigration.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
Which I think has really really really done harm to
this country, the whole focus and uh and obsession and
anger and fear of immigrants as being a really really
really step backwards again from individual freedom and for capitalism
in this country.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
And I think Van Possey wise.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
Here's a president who literally admired Putin.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
She all go on in in in in Turkey.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
Here is a president and of course his best buddy
is is who wrote level letters to each other, the.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Brutal dictator of North Korea.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
Here's a president who groveled before all four of these
dictators and who set us up for you know, for
even week Abiden administration. But you know, he's the guy
who sided a piece to deal with the Taliban.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
I don't know about you.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
Guys, but just that would disqualify somebody for me for
being president.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Okay, So you know, here's a guy completely botched COVID.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
He's this is the his job, right, He's the president
of the unit, completely botched COVID from day one, and
yet here he.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Is back, and you guys want to forgive him.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
And I'm not even mentioning January sixth and his denial
of the fact that he lost the election and what
that suggests about.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
All right, so just let me let me jump in here.
Let me jump in here. Just we got about we
got about four minutes left.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
So I don't I don't disagree with you often, but
actually disagree on a whole bunch of things you said,
so I'll just mention them quickly.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
It was absolutely right to overturn Roe v.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Wade because there is no federal authority about abortion, and
I am pro choice, but overturning Roe v. Wade was
correct as a matter of constitutional law, and I'm glad
they did it. I comment that, yeah, quickly though, Can
I comment to that?
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Yeah? Quickly.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
There's the Ninth Amendment.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
A woman has a right to do with her body
if she pleases take drugs, prostitute yourself and hip out
a bab whip out a fetus from her thing. There's
that is a that is a that is a right
installed by the Declaration of Independence. So she has a
right to her own life or right to your own body. Suddenly,
when she's got a fetus in sight, she loses that right.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
I don't get it. Now.
Speaker 4 (15:58):
It's true, does not do enough to protect now individual rights.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
But there was an example the way by accident.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
Rovs's wait actually protected a right, and the Republicans.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Stick it away. I get it, and I think you're wrong.
I think that Trump on the border, I think there
was an issue there. I don't think the wall was
necessarily stupid. I don't think you need a physical wall.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
For all of it. There are other things.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
It is true that he overplayed immigration a lot and
made people fear immigrants and all that.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
I didn't like it.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
I think it's actually but then you look at Biden
and Harris.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
They went out of their way to.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Undo everything that Trump did to get control of the border,
just to undo Trump. And what they did, what they
allowed was this massive tsunami of illegaliens, including as you
know from the national stories, a lot of crime around
here from them, and they're the ones now who have
actually been the ones who have turned Americans again illegal immigrants.
(17:01):
And support for mass deportation is much higher now than
it was under Trump because of what these guys did.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
There's more than I disagreed with you, though, but I'm
almost at a time so you can.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
Mostly made it a national issue and who demonized the
immigrants at day one. And of course the solution, the solution,
I have to say this for illegal immigration is to
legalize it. That is the solution for legal immigration is
to make it legal, to allow people to come here
if they can get a job, to come into the
United States, and then you solve the boarder problem.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
It goes away completely.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
And that nobody is offering neither Democrats, no Republicans, neither
one of them actually want the pro.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Freed and pro liberty solution for immigration.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
I have to say I will never forgive Republican base
voters for making Donald Trump the nominee again Republicans. You know,
even though Republicans are not nearly as pro freedom as
I would like, as Yuron would like, they could have
found a candidate that you're on or I could tolerate,
(18:03):
and they picked like the one that we couldn't.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
I'll give you the last twenty nine seconds.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
I mean what we need in this country is a
complete reset ideologically, and a reset that kind of reboots
the founders, reboots the principles on which this country was founded.
And only by doing that do we have a future,
because the way the country is going right now, we're
heading towards disaster no matter who wins this election.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
I wish i'd disagreed with you on that one, but
I don't. I think you're right.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Aaron Brook is going to be giving a fascinating or
not giving a talk. You'll be involved in a panel
with my friend Mike Williams and with doctor Tom cran Winner.
And it's on November seventh, and there's still I think
a couple of tickets available for the live event here
in the Denver area, and you could also live stream
at wherever you are. It's going to be starting at
(18:57):
six thirty pm on November seventh, and it's called Beyond
the Ballot and you can get all the information at
Defendersofcapitalism dot com. If you forget any of that, just
go to my website at Roscominsky dot com. It's all
there too, Yeah, Ron, I hope to see you while
you're in town and we can agree and disagree more.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
I hope so too.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Look forward to it all right, Thanks you, Ery, Thanks Josh,
appreciate it.
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