Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
One quick response to a listener text before we get
to my next guest and friend, Robert Bryce.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
A listener asked, you know, let me see if I
can find this.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
I don't know much about Chris Wright, but I worry
that independent thinkers will be steymied to do Trump's bidding
and therefore will be ineffective.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
What do you think about that?
Speaker 1 (00:20):
And I want to take just a few seconds to
answer this question, and then we're going to talk with
with Robert Bryce about Chris Wright, who hopefully will be
the next Secretary of Energy. My answer is, I think
that will be true in certain jobs, certain areas of
policy where Donald Trump has a very strong opinion. For example,
(00:43):
he will want people around him in the world of
Treasury and economic stuff who support or at least are
willing to go along with his positive view of tariffs,
and he will want let's say, somebody in Secretary of
Defense wants to get rid of wokeness there and things
like that, and he'll be at least a little bit
(01:04):
hands on in that stuff. I don't think energy is
going to be one of those areas. I think Donald
Trump probably opposed it, not so much opposes wind and solar,
but opposes wasting immense amounts of money on wind and solar,
which is the only way that wind and solar is
economically viable in most places, that is, by incinerating taxpayer
(01:25):
money to make wind and solar appear cheaper.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Than it is. But I don't think.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
I think Trump just wants America to be energy independent,
and so he'll if it's Chris right, or he'll say,
this is my goal make America energy independent. And I
don't think he's going to micromanage beyond that when it
comes to energy. But my next guest knows way more
about this than I do.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Is one of my favorite people.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
One of my favorite guests, Robert Bryce, hosts his own
substack at Robertsbryce dot substack dot com.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
And you should absolutely subscribe.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
I am a pay subscriber, and he just wrote a
piece over the weekend Chris Wright, an unapologetic energy humanist,
will be the next Secretary of Energy. I sure hope
that's true. Robert, welcome back. It's great to talk to you.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Thanks, ros I'm always happy to be with you. And
I got to tell you, I mean, I've known Chris
for a long time, more than a decade. I consider
him a friend, and you know, I'm There's been a
lot of picks by the Trump administration. This one I
think is the best. And it's because finally, finally, and
I do mean finally, the Department of Energy will be
(02:34):
headed by someone who really knows the energy business and
is a humanist. And that's one of the things that
I think is just so marvelous about Chris is that
he doesn't apologize for being in the energy business, doesn't
apologize for being in the oil and gas.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
Business very clearly, and for years it has been arguing
no energy.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
I'm pro energy and I'm pro human and I got
to tell you, I just think it's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
I do too.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
And you know, I actually talked about this a couple
hours ago. And use the term because you used it
in your article energy humanist. But so many people on
the left just think, oh, he's in oil and gas.
He must hate children and puppies and and and he
probably hates chocolate too, right, So please do so I
(03:18):
want you to do.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
I want you to do two things.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
One is I want you to describe, and this is
more of a philosophical concept. Just describe what an energy
humanist means to you. And then the other thing I
want you to do is talk about Chris Wright as
a person because.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
You and I both know him.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
We both had dinner with them, we both had drinks
with them, We both you know, we both consider him
a friend.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
So do those two things.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Sure, let me start with the last part, because you know,
I've been very fortunate in my career.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
I've been in the journalism trade for my whole life.
I've never had a real job.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
I've been it reported my whole career, and I've interviewed
It's not an exaggeration to say thousands of people over
the course of my career. And Chris really stands out
of someone with a charisma intelligence.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
He's an auct neewer and he vibrates it at a
high level. And I mean that in the most positive way.
You know, some people vibrate a very high level and
you don't want to be around him.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Chris is thoughtful and and he has charisma, and I
think that's one of the key things to one of
the keys to his success is he attracts people to
him and he has a wide variety of friends, and
it's because he is such a he has a I.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
Would say, a magnetic personality.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
So but as far as the human is humanism part
of this, this is something that I've argued now for
a long time and Chris has as well, is that
it's focused on climatism. And I wrote a piece on
my substack it would call it climatism or energy humanism.
And we've been inundated by this climate catastrophism, and oh,
we have to quit using energy. We have to quit
(04:46):
using oil and gas and coal, and we have to
just use you know, wind and solar. It's a recipe
for disaster. And Chris has really understood this and taken
it to us, you know, really embraced it. And it's
one of the reasons and we can talk about this.
He no pain is his favorite hydrocarbon, I mean hydercarbon.
I guess I like he's gasoline. But you know, he's
a very thoughtful person that understands the need around the
(05:09):
world for more energy, not less.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
You and I and Chris and our mutual friends at Duomburg,
although I'm guessing you haven't met them and I haven't either,
all have.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
This mindset that one of the.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Most beneficial things that can be done for humanity is
to lower the price and increase the availability of energy,
especially lower the price. And Chris has been writing about
this for years as much as a in a philosophical
way as a business way.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Can you talk about that a little sure?
Speaker 1 (05:45):
And we still have you, I know, Robert said here here,
I think, yes, yes, yes, hello, yeah, go ahead, we
got you.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
So one of the things one of the things that
Chris has done it at Liberty is he's equipped, you know,
apologizing and the issue at ESG reported Stead they issue
a Bettering Human Lives Report, which is one of the
ways that they're saying what we're doing matters, and it
matters to people. And he underscores the issues of energy
poverty around the world. And I think this is one
of the things that that Chris is really underscored.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
It has been really important.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
He points out that millions of people die every year
because of indoor air pollution.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
And he says this is this is outrageous.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
And that's why he so loves propane, is this is
a way to get people cleaner cooking fuel, so that matters.
And again I think that goes to his humanism.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
I think, tell me if you agree with my next statement.
I'll just give a thesis and you can say that's
right or wrong. Chris Wright is not going to be
reflexively for or against any particular form of energy. What
he's going to be for is energy that can be
delivered in expense, and he's going to be against energy
(07:04):
that is expensive, wasteful, wasteful of money, wasteful of land.
It's it's a He's a very practical guy, and unlike
many people on the left who approach energy questions as
matters of religion, he's all about just getting it right.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
I think that's right, and let me let me bring
up a different point to them. It's adjacent to what
you're talking about, is that it's telling to me that
Chris is on the board of Oaklowe, which is a.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
Nuclear power company. So Chris is looking ahead and looking.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
At companies that are doing are innovating on nuclear energy.
So I'm in Austin today and I'm at the Texas
Nuclear Alliance at the Nuclear Summit, and on stage right
now Rick Perry and Earning Monis a former both former
secretaries of Energy, and they're talking about nuclear and so
we now have an incoming Secretary of Energy.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
You not only believes in nuclear. He's on the board
of a nuclear company. So I think that shows where.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
His both his mind and his heart are that he shows, Oh,
not only is he putting his money into this kind
of business, he's actually spending time.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
And I can't imagine you always have a public company here.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
He's got plenty of things to do, but this is
one of the things that he's saying that one of
the nuclear is clearly part of the future. So I
think that is another example of what his outlook is
and what it will be as the new Secretary of Energy.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
All right, let me follow up on that, moving away
from Chris Wright for a minute and just talk about
nuclear for a second.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
So sure, how much nuclear.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Do you think we would need to produce in this
country for there to be measurable downward pressure on the
price of natural gas and maybe oil, but mostly natural
gas due to reduce demand for natural gas because we're
producing so much electricity with nuclear.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
That's an interesting way you put that question, Ross because remember,
one of the things that's making nuclear difficult to develop
in the United States is that we're a wash in
cheap gas.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
I mean, especially you're at Colorado.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
I mean they're parts of Colorado where the prices are negative,
you know, can be negative. There are negative prices for
natural gas, and then West Texas for extended periods.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
Over the summer.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
So the US has, as my father used to say,
more gas than could when then we could say grace over.
And that low price of natural gas it's now what
two seventy today, something like that two thousand and seventy
cents permilion BTUs. That low price of natural gas is
one of the things that's made the economics of nuclear difficult.
So I would rephrase your point about new and natural
(09:30):
gas in the power sector.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
One of the things that concerns me and concerns.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Me greatly, and I just was talking to the CEO
of Vistra here just a minute ago about this. I'm
very concerned that the US is becoming too dependent on
natural gas in the power sector and that during extremely
extreme cold events there's not going to be enough natural
gas to go around, that is, to produce all the
power from generation from generation plants and to keep your house.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
And you know, our friend.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
John Harpool's house in Denver, all everyone's house warm, heated
by natural gas. So you know, I'm pro natural gas.
But I'm very concerned where become two dependent on gas
and at that same time, where of course closing all
the cold plants.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Right, And then you got politicians screwing up markets like
they don't want they don't want natural gas prices to
go up because they don't want voters to get mad
at them, so they restrict export of natural gas, which
of course dooms are European friends to incredibly high energy
prices or being dependent on Russian gas and all this stuff.
I mean, so maybe, I mean, I oppose those restrictions anyway,
(10:29):
just as a matter of economic liberty, but maybe as
a matter of wanting to develop nuclear power in the
United States, maybe that's another reason to like aggressively.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Export natural gas. So the price goes up a little.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
Well, that's an interesting point. I haven't thought about it
those in that frame.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
But what is clear is that now US natural gas
is absolutely critical to European energy security. The US LERG
market now, or the US lergy exports, are now the
biggest supply of LERG into the European market, and they
have been for the last three years. So in the
wake of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, US natural gas on
the international market in the form of the LERG is irreplaceable.
(11:11):
So you know that is something we have to take
and understand very clearly. So what will happen? You didn't
ask this question, but I'll pose it to myself.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
So what is the new Trump administration going to do?
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Well, they're going The first thing they're going to do
is get rid of these insane bands that you know
they called it a pause. I mean it was maloney
from beginning to end, this pause on LNG exports. It
was a gift to the to the climate activists, and
a terrible policy, both for the United States and for Europe.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
So that's going to go by the wayside immediately. This
is one of the first things Trump is going to do.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
I'm certain of that. You can bet one hundred dollars
on that. TEK and I and this is what I
really hope for. And I think it's going to be
the case. He's gonna he's gonna.
Speaker 4 (11:49):
Stop all this offshore wind foolishness.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
I mean that of all the you know, the only
thing dumber that onshore wind energy ross is offshore wind energy.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
He kills them on the first day.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
I'm that one is the one that is near to
my heart because you know, I love Wales.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
The offshore wind is just a stupid idea from the
beginning to end.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
So I know you're more of an energy analyst than
a political analyst, but there's some necessary overlap there, as
you just gave examples of do you have an opinion
a guess as to whether the Trump administration will try
to repeal much or all of the so called Inflation
(12:27):
Reduction Act, which is basically the.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Green New Deal in different clothes.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
And one of the things I wonder about is there
are plenty of red states that are now getting some
of my children's future earnings.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
So what do you think?
Speaker 4 (12:41):
Sure, hard call on that one. You know, I published
a piece on.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
My subtect Robert Bryce dot substech dot com before the
election in which I predicted that he won't repeal the
IRA because you've got now powerful. Look what's the reason,
Because now corporate America is feeding at the trough, right,
these are incredibly lucrative subsidies for when So are you
know blue twoty fruity colored hydrogen. You know all of
these big you know, big business loves these subsidies, So
(13:06):
you already have American Patrollum Institute, as an Electric Institute,
American Clean Power Association, all saying we don't want these
subsidies to be repealed. So that could be a hard fight. Now,
will it be selective? Will they do it through some
reconciliation bill? Probably there'll be some modifications. Will there be
a wholesale rollback? I can't say. But let me just
me mentioned the issue of politics. Let me just give
(13:27):
you one quick point here that amazed me. And I
told you I've been in Texas for a long time
and I'm from Oklahoma, but you know, one of the
results of all the election results that I've seen, the
results from the Rio Grand Valley here in Texas were
the most remarkable. So four major counties on the in
the Rio Grand Valley Star will see a dog in
Cameron Counties heavily Hispanic Latino poverty rates in each of
(13:51):
those counties in excess of twenty two percent each. One
of those counties, which had been Democratic for decades, all
of them went for Trump. In Star County, Texas, in
twenty sixteen, Hillary Clinton beat Trump by sixty points. This year,
twenty twenty four, Trump beat Harris by sixteen points a
(14:11):
seventy six point swing, heavily Latino County, where poverty is common,
and they went for Trump. And to me, that is just,
you know, of all the things that happened in this
election cycle, those results are to me are just still
absolutely gobsmacking.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Me too, Me too.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
And I think this goes to bigger conversations that are
a little bit outside of your normal area expertise, Robert.
But I've long said on the show that Republicans have
for some time opposed not just illegal but some legal immigration,
under the thought that Hispanics and other immigrants would be
(14:53):
permanent Democrat voters. And I've said, there's no reason you
should assume that, and Hispanics in particular can be pretty conservative.
And also I've said if Republican if the Republican message
is so bad that they're convinced that they can never
win over people who moved to America, then the Republican
Party is probably worthless anyway. And now they're figuring out,
(15:16):
and Democrats are figuring out that they can't just rely
on Hispanics to go like you said eighty twenty for
Dems or even black men are moving away. And again,
I know you're A's not normally what you talk about,
but that's what it made me think of.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
No, I mean it's absolutely incredible. I mean truly.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
And you know, I've lived in Texas now for forty
years and I've heard for over and over, oh, this
is good, We're going to turn Texas blue because the
LA voters are going to vote Democratic. Well maybe you
need to think again. Yeah, And I say that as one.
I'm not affiliated. I'm not a Republican, I'm not a Democrat.
I'm disgusted, right, and you know, Trump was a terrible
candidate that Harris was worse, I mean so bad that
(15:53):
she lost in what had been traditional Democratic stronghold. So
to me, you know, given the poverty levels, there, immigration issue,
so what is the what was the turn about?
Speaker 4 (16:02):
I think clearly immigration and inflation.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
But I also think to your point there, you know
more they are you know, these are more, these are
family oriented people. You know, there are a lot of
Latinos in Texas. I know a lot of them here
in Austin. It's you know, they're conservative people and so
a lot of this you know, radical woke agenda does
is it doesn't appeal to them. So I mean it's
these This election I think is going to be studied
for years to come about the massive miscalculations that the
(16:27):
Democrats made and and what I hope I mean going
back to where we started with Chris right and who
I you know, I very I have great admiration for
him and his work. Ethic is an intellect. You know
that of all the issues that touch voters, energy is
one of the he ones. And I really am fortunate.
I'm fortunate to know Chris, but I'm just really excited
to see what he's able to do here. And I
think he could have a real impact on people's day
(16:50):
to day lives about making our grid stronger, you know,
lowering energy prices overall.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
And I sure hope you know he has great success.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
I do too, And I'm also certain that Chris will
lean on you for input for the big decisions that
he will need to make in the future if and
when he gets confirmed. Robert Bryce's substack is Robert Bryce.
That's br Ycee dot substack dot com. Become a paying subscriber,
as I am some of the best writing on energy
(17:19):
and the electric grid and so on that you will
find anywhere.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Thanks for making time for US.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
I know you're at a conference there, Robert, I really
appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
Always the pleasure. Ross.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Thanks all right, see you
One quick response to a listener text before we get
to my next guest and friend, Robert Bryce.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
A listener asked, you know, let me see if I
can find this.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
I don't know much about Chris Wright, but I worry
that independent thinkers will be steymied to do Trump's bidding
and therefore will be ineffective.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
What do you think about that?
Speaker 1 (00:20):
And I want to take just a few seconds to
answer this question, and then we're going to talk with
with Robert Bryce about Chris Wright, who hopefully will be
the next Secretary of Energy. My answer is, I think
that will be true in certain jobs, certain areas of
policy where Donald Trump has a very strong opinion. For example,
(00:43):
he will want people around him in the world of
Treasury and economic stuff who support or at least are
willing to go along with his positive view of tariffs,
and he will want let's say, somebody in Secretary of
Defense wants to get rid of wokeness there and things
like that, and he'll be at least a little bit
(01:04):
hands on in that stuff. I don't think energy is
going to be one of those areas. I think Donald
Trump probably opposed it, not so much opposes wind and solar,
but opposes wasting immense amounts of money on wind and solar,
which is the only way that wind and solar is
economically viable in most places, that is, by incinerating taxpayer
(01:25):
money to make wind and solar appear cheaper.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Than it is. But I don't think.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
I think Trump just wants America to be energy independent,
and so he'll if it's Chris right, or he'll say,
this is my goal make America energy independent. And I
don't think he's going to micromanage beyond that when it
comes to energy. But my next guest knows way more
about this than I do.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Is one of my favorite people.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
One of my favorite guests, Robert Bryce, hosts his own
substack at Robertsbryce dot substack dot com.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
And you should absolutely subscribe.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
I am a pay subscriber, and he just wrote a
piece over the weekend Chris Wright, an unapologetic energy humanist,
will be the next Secretary of Energy. I sure hope
that's true. Robert, welcome back. It's great to talk to you.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Thanks, ros I'm always happy to be with you. And
I got to tell you, I mean, I've known Chris
for a long time, more than a decade. I consider
him a friend, and you know, I'm There's been a
lot of picks by the Trump administration. This one I
think is the best. And it's because finally, finally, and
I do mean finally, the Department of Energy will be
(02:34):
headed by someone who really knows the energy business and
is a humanist. And that's one of the things that
I think is just so marvelous about Chris is that
he doesn't apologize for being in the energy business, doesn't
apologize for being in the oil and gas.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
Business very clearly, and for years it has been arguing
no energy.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
I'm pro energy and I'm pro human and I got
to tell you, I just think it's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
I do too.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
And you know, I actually talked about this a couple
hours ago. And use the term because you used it
in your article energy humanist. But so many people on
the left just think, oh, he's in oil and gas.
He must hate children and puppies and and and he
probably hates chocolate too, right, So please do so I
(03:18):
want you to do.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
I want you to do two things.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
One is I want you to describe, and this is
more of a philosophical concept. Just describe what an energy
humanist means to you. And then the other thing I
want you to do is talk about Chris Wright as
a person because.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
You and I both know him.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
We both had dinner with them, we both had drinks
with them, We both you know, we both consider him
a friend.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
So do those two things.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Sure, let me start with the last part, because you know,
I've been very fortunate in my career.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
I've been in the journalism trade for my whole life.
I've never had a real job.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
I've been it reported my whole career, and I've interviewed
It's not an exaggeration to say thousands of people over
the course of my career. And Chris really stands out
of someone with a charisma intelligence.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
He's an auct neewer and he vibrates it at a
high level. And I mean that in the most positive way.
You know, some people vibrate a very high level and
you don't want to be around him.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Chris is thoughtful and and he has charisma, and I
think that's one of the key things to one of
the keys to his success is he attracts people to
him and he has a wide variety of friends, and
it's because he is such a he has a I.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
Would say, a magnetic personality.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
So but as far as the human is humanism part
of this, this is something that I've argued now for
a long time and Chris has as well, is that
it's focused on climatism. And I wrote a piece on
my substack it would call it climatism or energy humanism.
And we've been inundated by this climate catastrophism, and oh,
we have to quit using energy. We have to quit
(04:46):
using oil and gas and coal, and we have to
just use you know, wind and solar. It's a recipe
for disaster. And Chris has really understood this and taken
it to us, you know, really embraced it. And it's
one of the reasons and we can talk about this.
He no pain is his favorite hydrocarbon, I mean hydercarbon.
I guess I like he's gasoline. But you know, he's
a very thoughtful person that understands the need around the
(05:09):
world for more energy, not less.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
You and I and Chris and our mutual friends at Duomburg,
although I'm guessing you haven't met them and I haven't either,
all have.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
This mindset that one of the.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Most beneficial things that can be done for humanity is
to lower the price and increase the availability of energy,
especially lower the price. And Chris has been writing about
this for years as much as a in a philosophical
way as a business way.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Can you talk about that a little sure?
Speaker 1 (05:45):
And we still have you, I know, Robert said here here,
I think, yes, yes, yes, hello, yeah, go ahead, we
got you.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
So one of the things one of the things that
Chris has done it at Liberty is he's equipped, you know,
apologizing and the issue at ESG reported Stead they issue
a Bettering Human Lives Report, which is one of the
ways that they're saying what we're doing matters, and it
matters to people. And he underscores the issues of energy
poverty around the world. And I think this is one
of the things that that Chris is really underscored.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
It has been really important.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
He points out that millions of people die every year
because of indoor air pollution.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
And he says this is this is outrageous.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
And that's why he so loves propane, is this is
a way to get people cleaner cooking fuel, so that matters.
And again I think that goes to his humanism.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
I think, tell me if you agree with my next statement.
I'll just give a thesis and you can say that's
right or wrong. Chris Wright is not going to be
reflexively for or against any particular form of energy. What
he's going to be for is energy that can be
delivered in expense, and he's going to be against energy
(07:04):
that is expensive, wasteful, wasteful of money, wasteful of land.
It's it's a He's a very practical guy, and unlike
many people on the left who approach energy questions as
matters of religion, he's all about just getting it right.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
I think that's right, and let me let me bring
up a different point to them. It's adjacent to what
you're talking about, is that it's telling to me that
Chris is on the board of Oaklowe, which is a.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
Nuclear power company. So Chris is looking ahead and looking.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
At companies that are doing are innovating on nuclear energy.
So I'm in Austin today and I'm at the Texas
Nuclear Alliance at the Nuclear Summit, and on stage right
now Rick Perry and Earning Monis a former both former
secretaries of Energy, and they're talking about nuclear and so
we now have an incoming Secretary of Energy.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
You not only believes in nuclear. He's on the board
of a nuclear company. So I think that shows where.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
His both his mind and his heart are that he shows, Oh,
not only is he putting his money into this kind
of business, he's actually spending time.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
And I can't imagine you always have a public company here.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
He's got plenty of things to do, but this is
one of the things that he's saying that one of
the nuclear is clearly part of the future. So I
think that is another example of what his outlook is
and what it will be as the new Secretary of Energy.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
All right, let me follow up on that, moving away
from Chris Wright for a minute and just talk about
nuclear for a second.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
So sure, how much nuclear.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Do you think we would need to produce in this
country for there to be measurable downward pressure on the
price of natural gas and maybe oil, but mostly natural
gas due to reduce demand for natural gas because we're
producing so much electricity with nuclear.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
That's an interesting way you put that question, Ross because remember,
one of the things that's making nuclear difficult to develop
in the United States is that we're a wash in
cheap gas.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
I mean, especially you're at Colorado.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
I mean they're parts of Colorado where the prices are negative,
you know, can be negative. There are negative prices for
natural gas, and then West Texas for extended periods.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
Over the summer.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
So the US has, as my father used to say,
more gas than could when then we could say grace over.
And that low price of natural gas it's now what
two seventy today, something like that two thousand and seventy
cents permilion BTUs. That low price of natural gas is
one of the things that's made the economics of nuclear difficult.
So I would rephrase your point about new and natural
(09:30):
gas in the power sector.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
One of the things that concerns me and concerns.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Me greatly, and I just was talking to the CEO
of Vistra here just a minute ago about this. I'm
very concerned that the US is becoming too dependent on
natural gas in the power sector and that during extremely
extreme cold events there's not going to be enough natural
gas to go around, that is, to produce all the
power from generation from generation plants and to keep your house.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
And you know, our friend.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
John Harpool's house in Denver, all everyone's house warm, heated
by natural gas. So you know, I'm pro natural gas.
But I'm very concerned where become two dependent on gas
and at that same time, where of course closing all
the cold plants.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Right, And then you got politicians screwing up markets like
they don't want they don't want natural gas prices to
go up because they don't want voters to get mad
at them, so they restrict export of natural gas, which
of course dooms are European friends to incredibly high energy
prices or being dependent on Russian gas and all this stuff.
I mean, so maybe, I mean, I oppose those restrictions anyway,
(10:29):
just as a matter of economic liberty, but maybe as
a matter of wanting to develop nuclear power in the
United States, maybe that's another reason to like aggressively.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Export natural gas. So the price goes up a little.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
Well, that's an interesting point. I haven't thought about it
those in that frame.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
But what is clear is that now US natural gas
is absolutely critical to European energy security. The US LERG
market now, or the US lergy exports, are now the
biggest supply of LERG into the European market, and they
have been for the last three years. So in the
wake of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, US natural gas on
the international market in the form of the LERG is irreplaceable.
(11:11):
So you know that is something we have to take
and understand very clearly. So what will happen? You didn't
ask this question, but I'll pose it to myself.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
So what is the new Trump administration going to do?
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Well, they're going The first thing they're going to do
is get rid of these insane bands that you know
they called it a pause. I mean it was maloney
from beginning to end, this pause on LNG exports. It
was a gift to the to the climate activists, and
a terrible policy, both for the United States and for Europe.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
So that's going to go by the wayside immediately. This
is one of the first things Trump is going to do.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
I'm certain of that. You can bet one hundred dollars
on that. TEK and I and this is what I
really hope for. And I think it's going to be
the case. He's gonna he's gonna.
Speaker 4 (11:49):
Stop all this offshore wind foolishness.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
I mean that of all the you know, the only
thing dumber that onshore wind energy ross is offshore wind energy.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
He kills them on the first day.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
I'm that one is the one that is near to
my heart because you know, I love Wales.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
The offshore wind is just a stupid idea from the
beginning to end.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
So I know you're more of an energy analyst than
a political analyst, but there's some necessary overlap there, as
you just gave examples of do you have an opinion
a guess as to whether the Trump administration will try
to repeal much or all of the so called Inflation
(12:27):
Reduction Act, which is basically the.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Green New Deal in different clothes.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
And one of the things I wonder about is there
are plenty of red states that are now getting some
of my children's future earnings.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
So what do you think?
Speaker 4 (12:41):
Sure, hard call on that one. You know, I published
a piece on.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
My subtect Robert Bryce dot substech dot com before the
election in which I predicted that he won't repeal the
IRA because you've got now powerful. Look what's the reason,
Because now corporate America is feeding at the trough, right,
these are incredibly lucrative subsidies for when So are you
know blue twoty fruity colored hydrogen. You know all of
these big you know, big business loves these subsidies, So
(13:06):
you already have American Patrollum Institute, as an Electric Institute,
American Clean Power Association, all saying we don't want these
subsidies to be repealed. So that could be a hard fight. Now,
will it be selective? Will they do it through some
reconciliation bill? Probably there'll be some modifications. Will there be
a wholesale rollback? I can't say. But let me just
me mentioned the issue of politics. Let me just give
(13:27):
you one quick point here that amazed me. And I
told you I've been in Texas for a long time
and I'm from Oklahoma, but you know, one of the
results of all the election results that I've seen, the
results from the Rio Grand Valley here in Texas were
the most remarkable. So four major counties on the in
the Rio Grand Valley Star will see a dog in
Cameron Counties heavily Hispanic Latino poverty rates in each of
(13:51):
those counties in excess of twenty two percent each. One
of those counties, which had been Democratic for decades, all
of them went for Trump. In Star County, Texas, in
twenty sixteen, Hillary Clinton beat Trump by sixty points. This year,
twenty twenty four, Trump beat Harris by sixteen points a
(14:11):
seventy six point swing, heavily Latino County, where poverty is common,
and they went for Trump. And to me, that is just,
you know, of all the things that happened in this
election cycle, those results are to me are just still
absolutely gobsmacking.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Me too, Me too.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
And I think this goes to bigger conversations that are
a little bit outside of your normal area expertise, Robert.
But I've long said on the show that Republicans have
for some time opposed not just illegal but some legal immigration,
under the thought that Hispanics and other immigrants would be
(14:53):
permanent Democrat voters. And I've said, there's no reason you
should assume that, and Hispanics in particular can be pretty conservative.
And also I've said if Republican if the Republican message
is so bad that they're convinced that they can never
win over people who moved to America, then the Republican
Party is probably worthless anyway. And now they're figuring out,
(15:16):
and Democrats are figuring out that they can't just rely
on Hispanics to go like you said eighty twenty for
Dems or even black men are moving away. And again,
I know you're A's not normally what you talk about,
but that's what it made me think of.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
No, I mean it's absolutely incredible. I mean truly.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
And you know, I've lived in Texas now for forty
years and I've heard for over and over, oh, this
is good, We're going to turn Texas blue because the
LA voters are going to vote Democratic. Well maybe you
need to think again. Yeah, And I say that as one.
I'm not affiliated. I'm not a Republican, I'm not a Democrat.
I'm disgusted, right, and you know, Trump was a terrible
candidate that Harris was worse, I mean so bad that
(15:53):
she lost in what had been traditional Democratic stronghold. So
to me, you know, given the poverty levels, there, immigration issue,
so what is the what was the turn about?
Speaker 4 (16:02):
I think clearly immigration and inflation.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
But I also think to your point there, you know
more they are you know, these are more, these are
family oriented people. You know, there are a lot of
Latinos in Texas. I know a lot of them here
in Austin. It's you know, they're conservative people and so
a lot of this you know, radical woke agenda does
is it doesn't appeal to them. So I mean it's
these This election I think is going to be studied
for years to come about the massive miscalculations that the
(16:27):
Democrats made and and what I hope I mean going
back to where we started with Chris right and who
I you know, I very I have great admiration for
him and his work. Ethic is an intellect. You know
that of all the issues that touch voters, energy is
one of the he ones. And I really am fortunate.
I'm fortunate to know Chris, but I'm just really excited
to see what he's able to do here. And I
think he could have a real impact on people's day
(16:50):
to day lives about making our grid stronger, you know,
lowering energy prices overall.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
And I sure hope you know he has great success.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
I do too, And I'm also certain that Chris will
lean on you for input for the big decisions that
he will need to make in the future if and
when he gets confirmed. Robert Bryce's substack is Robert Bryce.
That's br Ycee dot substack dot com. Become a paying subscriber,
as I am some of the best writing on energy
(17:19):
and the electric grid and so on that you will
find anywhere.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Thanks for making time for US.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
I know you're at a conference there, Robert, I really
appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
Always the pleasure. Ross.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Thanks all right, see you
The Ross Kaminsky Show News
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