Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is a conversation I've wanted to have with my
friend Joe uh for quite some time, but he's been
he's been busy, and I've talked a fair bit on
the show about you know, how I like bourbon and
how I'm drinking some good bourbon and the only reason
I even know which bourbons are good is because of
Joe Brunner, the owner, the owner of Lucas Liquors l
(00:21):
U k As, and I'd go to his store all
the time once I once I met Joe, I never
bought alcohol anywhere else uh.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
And just super loyal.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
I was super loyal to him because he's just such
a great source of information and also a cool dude.
And then I learned Lucas Lickers is close and I've
wanted to know why, and I've wanted to hear more
from Joe, and he joins us in studio to.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Talk about it, because I think there are a lot
of factors.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
That really involve public policy and economics and stuff that
go beyond just a personal story for you.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
So thanks for coming in. It's good to see you again,
absolutely and good to see you. I mean, it's like
I feel like it's yesterday. It was just here, yeah,
in better circumstances.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
But I am, I am. Thank you for having me.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
So tell us the story.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Tell us some of the factors that led into your
decision to close the business.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Absolutely, you know.
Speaker 5 (01:17):
The thing that really understand is, first of all, I
love Colorado, been here twenty eight years. This is a
great state. But the environment itself changed. And what does
that mean? You know what I mean? Without getting into
this pol all the political stuff, keep that out, Okay,
let's just talk about what changed here. Things got expensive,
and we the consumer has moved away from small business.
(01:44):
They're not as loyal or interested in visiting a small business.
They are interested in getting it dropped off on the
front door, or getting everything from one place right. So
where I grew up, I was always went to small businesses.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I saw, where are you from? From Chicago?
Speaker 4 (02:02):
From Chicago, so I used to go to the meat market.
Speaker 5 (02:04):
Yeah, I went to the fish market, sure, and I
knew I knew Tony there. It was really cool and
I really always appreciated that, and I thought that business
model could survive here. Unfortunately, when the laws changed and
when things changed, I thought I ran a good business
Ultimately I go out of business.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
So it's my fault in the way that I ran
the business.
Speaker 5 (02:24):
The market changed, and you know, I was not able
to find a way. My business was a twelve million
dollar business was I believe it was around the eighteenth
largest store in the state. But in less than a
year it went to six million. And when that happens,
at the shock my taxes were fifteen thy eight hundred
(02:45):
a month. The governor blocked Douglas County from lower in
business taxes, which was kind of a bummer. I don't
know if you remember that. But and then you know,
my rent was fifty two grand. This is real life, right,
So when you get into some of these payroad.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Fifty a month, yes sir for your rent.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
Yes sir, that's the truth. Wow, all right, So I.
Speaker 5 (03:09):
Mean when we we have a really good business. Yeah, yeah,
we had a really good business. So I tried to
restructure it and I found a new place, but people
bigger than me blocked me. And that's it. Had I
had to go out of business. And you want to
know what, I don't want to ever sound better. I
don't want to say it's this guy, it's that guy,
it's whatever. Because that's not what it is. This this
state has changed in eight years.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
It's not good. It's not bad.
Speaker 5 (03:33):
Okay, we're just more towards a corporate culture like California. No,
California is a beautiful state. Colorado's a beautiful state, but
it's more corporate driven. It's not going to be This
is not a very favorable place for small business anymore.
Now people are going to say, well, that's not true.
I would say, you know, good luck. I wasn't able
(03:53):
to keep my business afloat. You know, I have my
wife has a small business, and we're going to add
actually moved to Texas because it's more favorable to operating
in a state like Texas. Now I'm not you know,
and I don't want to get into the politics of everything.
I worked in DC for a long time. I understand policy.
(04:14):
I see what I mean. I can't even believe what
my house sold.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
For in the middle class neighborhood.
Speaker 5 (04:18):
Right When you drive cost up, the small business gets
squeezed out. And you know that, and it's I think
it's to some extent, I think it's purposeful. You know,
when you have a minimum wage that just is driven up.
We cannot keep our businesses afloat. We don't have that
that reach well, I couldn't, okay, But I don't want
(04:40):
to blame anybody, and I dont anybody have a you know,
a cry day for Joe. I always want to be honest.
I failed, I failed. I accept my failure here. But
as I reevaluate all the business that I had in
my what I've done through my career, I realized that
from a business standpoint, at my age, I'll be sixty soon.
Don't think I want to take another swing in Colorado
(05:02):
that I'll swing where it's a little easier.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
That's all, okay.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
I got a lot of follow.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
Up questions, fire away.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Elaborate as much as you can on what you meant
when you said somebody bigger blocked you from moving to
a new space.
Speaker 5 (05:18):
I don't know that I should do that because you one,
and know what. I don't want to be disrespectful anybody.
The reality of it is, don't.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Have to name names.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
What does it mean to block you to rent a
space that you were going to rent? What does it
mean to block you?
Speaker 5 (05:30):
Well, if I said what happened, everybody would know who
it is because it's a very uh it's a very
prominent person in Colorado that everybody knows. So and and
the problem is is it's business. So business is ruthless.
We have to understand that. So all all that was
(05:50):
played was no, you're not doing that. So I'm left
with no option but to close?
Speaker 2 (05:56):
What is it? All? Right?
Speaker 4 (05:58):
So I couldn't. I wanted to. I want everything was
being renegotiated.
Speaker 5 (06:02):
Yeah, I had accommodations from everybody except one player.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Is it a government player? Can you tell us that?
Speaker 5 (06:08):
No, that's a prominent businessman that is a large commercial
landowner and a large owner of just about everything.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
See, it's not good. So don't want to say not.
You want to know what because that human doesn't know me.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (06:22):
Okay, it's the way they run their businesses, the way
they create these empires. But again we have to understand
it's not conducive to small business. So the one thing
I did not want to come on the radio and
sound disgruntled. Okay, my business failed because policies changed and
the consumer no longer wants to shop at a family
owned store.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
That is reality, and that's going to happen more and more.
Speaker 5 (06:45):
I mean, I know in Colorado, I think in before
my store shut or ninety eight stores that shut, and
there'll be a lot more.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
And it's just in liquor.
Speaker 5 (06:54):
I mean, if you look at small businesses, just in
my shopping center where I'm at, everything's gone except for
a new mattress place, a radio station and everything's vacant.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
And a gym shoe a national gym shoe chain.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
So when you see all these small.
Speaker 5 (07:13):
Businesses going out, it's something is driving these businesses out, right, Yeah,
poorly run business, that's what people will call in say,
Joe ran a poorly run business. I'm cool with that answer,
but I can tell you you know, I thought I
was doing a good job. But a good job was
not good enough.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
So all right, let's talk about reasons. I hate to
say your business failed. I know you keep talking about
it that way, but I guess it did. But I
don't think it's because you failed, and you're being very
hard on yourself.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
It is entirely possible that the situation.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Around you changed in a way that nobody could have succeeded.
Nobody at your scale could have succeeded.
Speaker 5 (08:01):
Right, But you have to remember when when you get
when these and I'm going to use corporations as a
general sense. When these corporations came in, their intention is
to wipe everybody out. Sure every law and when all
the laws that are passed. I worked in DC a
long time. I testified on the Senate floor here against
a lot of the laws. We talked about it, and
I think no one believes the ramifications they've happened everywhere.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
This was the last independent market. It's over, so.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
Pretty soon what Colorado will look like, at least for
alcohol is two small aisles in every grocery store and
all our small breweries. Everybody's going to be out of business.
It's just the way it is now. You're going to say, well,
Joe is not I'm not disgruntled. I'm telling you this
is the way the market's changed.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Why would the breweries go out of business.
Speaker 5 (08:47):
They'll have no one to sell to, So the grocery
store changed. No one's going to buy from these people.
See I bought from them. I was an independent. I
can come in my store and say, hey, Joe, you
want to try this. I try it and say I
like it. Let's put it on the shelf. You come
and I say, hey, Ross, this is really good. Let's
get that that changes. So in my business that I
do for my wife, I actually sell nationwide. My wife
(09:08):
is in the event business. The company. Can I say
my company name there? Okay, it's with a twist, and
I want to We're the largest event business in the
United States. I opened up a division that sells other
people's liquor to anywhere in the United States. So I'm
actually doing brand ambassadors and tastings. And you know who
(09:29):
my customers are, Total line specs target because they're gonna
wipe everybody out. There's just nothing you can do to
stop it. And the thing is is we got to
be careful. If we could have fought it again, and
one may be a vote, but it's not what the
consumer wants anymore.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
The consumer doesn't care.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Okay, So there's two things I want to ask you about,
because you mentioned a couple of things to me back
when you were thinking about what your decision was gon
to be. One was, or I'll just I'll phrase this
as a question if you were to if you were
trying to assign a percentage to how big a fact
or something was in your ending up having to close,
(10:14):
what percentage would you assign to supermarkets being able to
sell beer and wine.
Speaker 5 (10:20):
Well, you see, the thing is, they picked the law
apart from when the law was written about six eight
years ago, I don't remember the exact date.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
Totally.
Speaker 5 (10:28):
Eventually bought across the street from me with their intention
of putting me out, Okay, putting Davidson's out, putting everybody
out down here.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
That's why they're there.
Speaker 5 (10:38):
And they bought an existing license and they got under
the roof of Colorado law. They weren't supposed to do that,
but they did it. So I lost about eight percent
of my business. My mall, the bed, bath and Beyond
was next to me, just signed a ten year lease.
That's when I re upped. Thought I was pretty solid.
They were out of business. That stayed vacant. My entire
(10:59):
place was and crime us through the roof. I mean
through the roof.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
By the way, folks, we're talking about about loan tree.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Okay, we're not talking about like sketchy neighborhood in Aurora
or five Points or something.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Loan Tree.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (11:12):
So, and that was another percentage of the business Police
Department outstanding. By the way, I got no negatives, but
I was dealing with bust in my windows, stealing from
my store. Constant took my ATM machine automatic weapons. I mean,
really crazy stuff. You're thinking like, how could this be happening.
So then we got into a vacant mall, you know,
(11:32):
owned by a very powerful real estate person, and.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
Now you're vacant.
Speaker 5 (11:38):
Now the next law changes and gives wine to everywhere basically,
so you know, you got a series of things, but
those series of things were planned. They've been picking apart
at that ten year law and one more year the
next ballot, not this ballot, but the next ballot, it'll
be on there again to get rid of it and everybody,
and then they'll wipe out the rest of them.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
I mean at that point everybody. They'll be able to
sell everything, not just to be or in.
Speaker 5 (12:03):
One right at twenty eighth. Twenty eight is the year
everything's wiped out. But they they'll try every other year.
They didn't try this year because of all the goofy
stuff going on in our elections, good, bad and different
whatever it is. Believe me, the next election will be
to remove it. And even when they tried delivery. So
one of the interesting things about delivery, the people that
(12:24):
were behind delivery are corporations like Amazon, they want to
deliver alcohol, so they could warehouse it and deliver it,
but they don't want any liability. So when I delivered alcohol,
if I dropped it at your house and I did
not id you and verify it, the fine for my
store is two weeks or fifty grand shut for two weeks,
or give me fifty thousand for one violation of giving
(12:44):
liquor to a minor.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
So in the.
Speaker 5 (12:48):
Laws that passed in California, you could deliver liquor, drop
it on the front door and leave. It's against the
law to do that, but there's no penalties.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
That was the same thing.
Speaker 5 (13:01):
They put on the ballot in Colorado, but that was
one of the things that Colorado turned down. But that's
going to pass eventually here, and we're going to be
dropping alo cahol on someone's porch because the way the
ballots are written are crazy. You know, I can get
into the way a ballot's written. Most people don't even
understand it.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
You know.
Speaker 5 (13:19):
They read it on the ballot and they're like, well,
that sounds good.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
It helps hold people.
Speaker 5 (13:24):
But in reality, and there's a specific rule that passed
this year that I'm against it Okay, that doesn't matter whether
I'm against it or you know what I mean, But
it was I think it was deceptively written.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Okay, so quick answer on this because I want to
get something else.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
You got it.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
If you had to assign a number to the percentage
of how much this was a factor in your closing,
what percentage would you assign to the law that said
that supermarkets and convenience stores can sell be your in wine.
Speaker 5 (13:54):
Well that was about I'd say eighteen percent, but total
was about they're ten percent.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Actually, you're actually very very precise on this. You really
thought about this stuff.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
Now, those are the numbers that went down, right.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Okay, that's the actual change, the actual decline in your business. Okay,
So the other thing that I wanted to ask you.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
About is.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
The change in consumption habits. It seems like young adults
don't drink as much as they used to do. And
I think I learned this from you. Definitely don't drink
as much wine as they used to do.
Speaker 5 (14:28):
Right, that's on the wine industry. You know, you have
two categories that are growing, non alcoholics and ready to drink.
I mean, why someone goes in and buys a four
dollar can of Jack and coke when they can buy
a twenty dollars bottle of Jack and.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
Hold case of coke.
Speaker 5 (14:42):
I can't answer that question, but that's the habit of
the consumer.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
But the consumer still drinks.
Speaker 5 (14:48):
Alcohol consumption in Colorado is down, Okay.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
It is down in the.
Speaker 5 (14:54):
United States overall, but it's not down to those percentages.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (14:59):
Wine, the wine industry is getting smashed, but it'll come back,
you know what I mean. There's I think about six
months ago they destroyed eight hundred thousand gallons of wine
in New Zealand because no one wanted it and you
can't age that type of wine that they may So
the wine industry is down, but is not down everywhere.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
It's down mainly in the US. Okay.
Speaker 5 (15:20):
But again, I mean they have to start marketing and
go over so I have insight to that. So I
have another brand I'm bringing in from South Africa.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (15:29):
It's called Fishwives Fishwives Clubs, and it's actually starting in Florida.
These people are amazing people. They do one hundred thousand
cases a year. There's a big brand zero in the US,
and what are they doing. They're coming to the US.
Cool brand. You know it's gonna the market's got to rejuve.
Is it wine, Yeah, it's wine. And then I have
(15:49):
another one called in Versa, which is in a can.
It's a prosecco, but you can't have prosecco when a
can can't label a prosecco. These guys are from Italy. Yeah,
I can't even believe how good it is. I'm almost shocked.
Now they're only going to be in Florida. They're not
coming to Colorado. We work in all fifty states, so
we just go where our customers want us. But these
are wine products and they're stellar. I mean they're I
(16:13):
can't even believe how good it is. I would pick
a can of this in verse up and it's they
call it a spritz. So sprits is big in Europe, right,
it's it's it's prosecco, but they call it a sprits
because it's in a can. You can't call it percent
But you know, people start drinking stuff and they like it. Yeah,
they'll put it on TikTok and all of a sudden
we get, you.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Know, a gajillion cases sold.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Yeah, I mean I've never tried and don't entirely understand
white claw in that whole category, it's not really my scene,
but that's a byproduct of beer.
Speaker 5 (16:43):
It's really me it's you know, shockingly, when they make beer,
the leftover stuff is what they make a lot of
those out of.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
I know you adn'tbody hear that, but I don't drink it,
so I don't people love it. That's kind of funny.
It is funny.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
So they're like, the beer companies are making the hard
seltzers out of stuff that would otherwise be trash for them.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Basically correct.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
Oh, they found the products. It is genius. There is genius.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
Now there are other ones that are RTDs ready to drink,
so those actually have alcohol.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
But in that market.
Speaker 5 (17:19):
What's really unique about that market and where the supermarkets
where this is where the good stuff is going to
go away. You don't have to label ready to drink.
So if I tell you I'm selling you margarita and
it's got fourteen percent alcohol made with real tequila, I
could have an eye dropper at tequila and use grain
alcohol to get my alcohol content up, which is what
(17:40):
they do, and sell you a less quality product. And
that's what a major manufacturer is going to do. Because
what are they concerned about making money? Where we have
a boutique brand is going to use one hundred percent
tequila and not have any grain.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
Alcohol does not need to be disclosed on the label.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Wow, the wine Yogi just texted in.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
She says, one thing we're doing at my wine store
a specialized classes for wine and food pairing. It's a
great way to balance the wine pairing with the foodies
out there. Many are not necessarily wine folks. Some are
just learning about wine and some are there for lessons
in education.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
That's smart.
Speaker 5 (18:15):
Yeah, we do it. So I do a ton of
that education. You know, I do a lot of tastings.
We have a bunch of smile as that work for
us and mixologists. I mean I'm working for We have
on retainer seventeen brands and we add brands all the time,
and you know, depending on what they want to do,
where they want to do.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
It in the country. So we learn a lot of that.
Speaker 5 (18:32):
But that person's brilliant, whoever the young lady is that
called in. That's an excellent way to get people back
to wine.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
We're almost at a time.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
One quick listener question here, do you have an opinion
about CBD or THC drinks that seem to be coming out.
Speaker 5 (18:48):
Yeah, we do those too, believe it or not, because
they have four twenty parties. Okay, so we're in the
event business at five thousand events this year. Yeah. Delta nine.
I don't know if you're familiar with Delta nine. Delta
nine is a it falls under an agricultural Act. It's
made from hemp. Hemp is marijuana. The same thing. You
could have Delta nine dropped at your door. Twenty milligrams
(19:08):
in a can, and it's the same as marijuana, not
even twenty you just have it dropped on your front porch.
Legal in all forty eight states. Recreationally, it's called Delta nine.
It's a big boom. That industry's exploded, and we are
making mixed drinks with Delta light yet.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
I mean, wow, I got about thirty seconds show and
Linda wants to know which part of Chicago you're from.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
I'm from the West Side.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
All right, very good, And I just want to say, dude,
I'm gonna miss you. You're moving to Texas. I just
I'm so glad I got to know you. I'm so
grateful for your friendship. I hope we're able to keep
in touch. I don't know if you're ever coming back
to Colorado, but I don't mean permanently, but even as
a visit, make sure we catch up. We're really gonna
miss you. And thanks for teaching me so much about
(19:54):
bourbon and whiskey and just you really improved my life
just by getting to know you.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
I appreciate that. Thank you, Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
I wish you all the best.
This is a conversation I've wanted to have with my
friend Joe uh for quite some time, but he's been
he's been busy, and I've talked a fair bit on
the show about you know, how I like bourbon and
how I'm drinking some good bourbon and the only reason
I even know which bourbons are good is because of
Joe Brunner, the owner, the owner of Lucas Liquors l
(00:21):
U k As, and I'd go to his store all
the time once I once I met Joe, I never
bought alcohol anywhere else uh.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
And just super loyal.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
I was super loyal to him because he's just such
a great source of information and also a cool dude.
And then I learned Lucas Lickers is close and I've
wanted to know why, and I've wanted to hear more
from Joe, and he joins us in studio to.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Talk about it, because I think there are a lot
of factors.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
That really involve public policy and economics and stuff that
go beyond just a personal story for you.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
So thanks for coming in. It's good to see you again,
absolutely and good to see you. I mean, it's like
I feel like it's yesterday. It was just here, yeah,
in better circumstances.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
But I am, I am. Thank you for having me.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
So tell us the story.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Tell us some of the factors that led into your
decision to close the business.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Absolutely, you know.
Speaker 5 (01:17):
The thing that really understand is, first of all, I
love Colorado, been here twenty eight years. This is a
great state. But the environment itself changed. And what does
that mean? You know what I mean? Without getting into
this pol all the political stuff, keep that out, Okay,
let's just talk about what changed here. Things got expensive,
and we the consumer has moved away from small business.
(01:44):
They're not as loyal or interested in visiting a small business.
They are interested in getting it dropped off on the
front door, or getting everything from one place right. So
where I grew up, I was always went to small businesses.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I saw, where are you from? From Chicago?
Speaker 4 (02:02):
From Chicago, so I used to go to the meat market.
Speaker 5 (02:04):
Yeah, I went to the fish market, sure, and I
knew I knew Tony there. It was really cool and
I really always appreciated that, and I thought that business
model could survive here. Unfortunately, when the laws changed and
when things changed, I thought I ran a good business
Ultimately I go out of business.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
So it's my fault in the way that I ran
the business.
Speaker 5 (02:24):
The market changed, and you know, I was not able
to find a way. My business was a twelve million
dollar business was I believe it was around the eighteenth
largest store in the state. But in less than a
year it went to six million. And when that happens,
at the shock my taxes were fifteen thy eight hundred
(02:45):
a month. The governor blocked Douglas County from lower in
business taxes, which was kind of a bummer. I don't
know if you remember that. But and then you know,
my rent was fifty two grand. This is real life, right,
So when you get into some of these payroad.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Fifty a month, yes sir for your rent.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
Yes sir, that's the truth. Wow, all right, So I.
Speaker 5 (03:09):
Mean when we we have a really good business. Yeah, yeah,
we had a really good business. So I tried to
restructure it and I found a new place, but people
bigger than me blocked me. And that's it. Had I
had to go out of business. And you want to
know what, I don't want to ever sound better. I
don't want to say it's this guy, it's that guy,
it's whatever. Because that's not what it is. This this
state has changed in eight years.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
It's not good. It's not bad.
Speaker 5 (03:33):
Okay, we're just more towards a corporate culture like California. No,
California is a beautiful state. Colorado's a beautiful state, but
it's more corporate driven. It's not going to be This
is not a very favorable place for small business anymore.
Now people are going to say, well, that's not true.
I would say, you know, good luck. I wasn't able
(03:53):
to keep my business afloat. You know, I have my
wife has a small business, and we're going to add
actually moved to Texas because it's more favorable to operating
in a state like Texas. Now I'm not you know,
and I don't want to get into the politics of everything.
I worked in DC for a long time. I understand policy.
(04:14):
I see what I mean. I can't even believe what
my house sold.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
For in the middle class neighborhood.
Speaker 5 (04:18):
Right When you drive cost up, the small business gets
squeezed out. And you know that, and it's I think
it's to some extent, I think it's purposeful. You know,
when you have a minimum wage that just is driven up.
We cannot keep our businesses afloat. We don't have that
that reach well, I couldn't, okay, But I don't want
(04:40):
to blame anybody, and I dont anybody have a you know,
a cry day for Joe. I always want to be honest.
I failed, I failed. I accept my failure here. But
as I reevaluate all the business that I had in
my what I've done through my career, I realized that
from a business standpoint, at my age, I'll be sixty soon.
Don't think I want to take another swing in Colorado
(05:02):
that I'll swing where it's a little easier.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
That's all, okay.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
I got a lot of follow.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
Up questions, fire away.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Elaborate as much as you can on what you meant
when you said somebody bigger blocked you from moving to
a new space.
Speaker 5 (05:18):
I don't know that I should do that because you one,
and know what. I don't want to be disrespectful anybody.
The reality of it is, don't.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Have to name names.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
What does it mean to block you to rent a
space that you were going to rent? What does it
mean to block you?
Speaker 5 (05:30):
Well, if I said what happened, everybody would know who
it is because it's a very uh it's a very
prominent person in Colorado that everybody knows. So and and
the problem is is it's business. So business is ruthless.
We have to understand that. So all all that was
(05:50):
played was no, you're not doing that. So I'm left
with no option but to close?
Speaker 2 (05:56):
What is it? All? Right?
Speaker 4 (05:58):
So I couldn't. I wanted to. I want everything was
being renegotiated.
Speaker 5 (06:02):
Yeah, I had accommodations from everybody except one player.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Is it a government player? Can you tell us that?
Speaker 5 (06:08):
No, that's a prominent businessman that is a large commercial
landowner and a large owner of just about everything.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
See, it's not good. So don't want to say not.
You want to know what because that human doesn't know me.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (06:22):
Okay, it's the way they run their businesses, the way
they create these empires. But again we have to understand
it's not conducive to small business. So the one thing
I did not want to come on the radio and
sound disgruntled. Okay, my business failed because policies changed and
the consumer no longer wants to shop at a family
owned store.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
That is reality, and that's going to happen more and more.
Speaker 5 (06:45):
I mean, I know in Colorado, I think in before
my store shut or ninety eight stores that shut, and
there'll be a lot more.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
And it's just in liquor.
Speaker 5 (06:54):
I mean, if you look at small businesses, just in
my shopping center where I'm at, everything's gone except for
a new mattress place, a radio station and everything's vacant.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
And a gym shoe a national gym shoe chain.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
So when you see all these small.
Speaker 5 (07:13):
Businesses going out, it's something is driving these businesses out, right, Yeah,
poorly run business, that's what people will call in say,
Joe ran a poorly run business. I'm cool with that answer,
but I can tell you you know, I thought I
was doing a good job. But a good job was
not good enough.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
So all right, let's talk about reasons. I hate to
say your business failed. I know you keep talking about
it that way, but I guess it did. But I
don't think it's because you failed, and you're being very
hard on yourself.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
It is entirely possible that the situation.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Around you changed in a way that nobody could have succeeded.
Nobody at your scale could have succeeded.
Speaker 5 (08:01):
Right, But you have to remember when when you get
when these and I'm going to use corporations as a
general sense. When these corporations came in, their intention is
to wipe everybody out. Sure every law and when all
the laws that are passed. I worked in DC a
long time. I testified on the Senate floor here against
a lot of the laws. We talked about it, and
I think no one believes the ramifications they've happened everywhere.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
This was the last independent market. It's over, so.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
Pretty soon what Colorado will look like, at least for
alcohol is two small aisles in every grocery store and
all our small breweries. Everybody's going to be out of business.
It's just the way it is now. You're going to say, well,
Joe is not I'm not disgruntled. I'm telling you this
is the way the market's changed.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Why would the breweries go out of business.
Speaker 5 (08:47):
They'll have no one to sell to, So the grocery
store changed. No one's going to buy from these people.
See I bought from them. I was an independent. I
can come in my store and say, hey, Joe, you
want to try this. I try it and say I
like it. Let's put it on the shelf. You come
and I say, hey, Ross, this is really good. Let's
get that that changes. So in my business that I
do for my wife, I actually sell nationwide. My wife
(09:08):
is in the event business. The company. Can I say
my company name there? Okay, it's with a twist, and
I want to We're the largest event business in the
United States. I opened up a division that sells other
people's liquor to anywhere in the United States. So I'm
actually doing brand ambassadors and tastings. And you know who
(09:29):
my customers are, Total line specs target because they're gonna
wipe everybody out. There's just nothing you can do to
stop it. And the thing is is we got to
be careful. If we could have fought it again, and
one may be a vote, but it's not what the
consumer wants anymore.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
The consumer doesn't care.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Okay, So there's two things I want to ask you about,
because you mentioned a couple of things to me back
when you were thinking about what your decision was gon
to be. One was, or I'll just I'll phrase this
as a question if you were to if you were
trying to assign a percentage to how big a fact
or something was in your ending up having to close,
(10:14):
what percentage would you assign to supermarkets being able to
sell beer and wine.
Speaker 5 (10:20):
Well, you see, the thing is, they picked the law
apart from when the law was written about six eight
years ago, I don't remember the exact date.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
Totally.
Speaker 5 (10:28):
Eventually bought across the street from me with their intention
of putting me out, Okay, putting Davidson's out, putting everybody
out down here.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
That's why they're there.
Speaker 5 (10:38):
And they bought an existing license and they got under
the roof of Colorado law. They weren't supposed to do that,
but they did it. So I lost about eight percent
of my business. My mall, the bed, bath and Beyond
was next to me, just signed a ten year lease.
That's when I re upped. Thought I was pretty solid.
They were out of business. That stayed vacant. My entire
(10:59):
place was and crime us through the roof. I mean
through the roof.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
By the way, folks, we're talking about about loan tree.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Okay, we're not talking about like sketchy neighborhood in Aurora
or five Points or something.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Loan Tree.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (11:12):
So, and that was another percentage of the business Police
Department outstanding. By the way, I got no negatives, but
I was dealing with bust in my windows, stealing from
my store. Constant took my ATM machine automatic weapons. I mean,
really crazy stuff. You're thinking like, how could this be happening.
So then we got into a vacant mall, you know,
(11:32):
owned by a very powerful real estate person, and.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
Now you're vacant.
Speaker 5 (11:38):
Now the next law changes and gives wine to everywhere basically,
so you know, you got a series of things, but
those series of things were planned. They've been picking apart
at that ten year law and one more year the
next ballot, not this ballot, but the next ballot, it'll
be on there again to get rid of it and everybody,
and then they'll wipe out the rest of them.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
I mean at that point everybody. They'll be able to
sell everything, not just to be or in.
Speaker 5 (12:03):
One right at twenty eighth. Twenty eight is the year
everything's wiped out. But they they'll try every other year.
They didn't try this year because of all the goofy
stuff going on in our elections, good, bad and different
whatever it is. Believe me, the next election will be
to remove it. And even when they tried delivery. So
one of the interesting things about delivery, the people that
(12:24):
were behind delivery are corporations like Amazon, they want to
deliver alcohol, so they could warehouse it and deliver it,
but they don't want any liability. So when I delivered alcohol,
if I dropped it at your house and I did
not id you and verify it, the fine for my
store is two weeks or fifty grand shut for two weeks,
or give me fifty thousand for one violation of giving
(12:44):
liquor to a minor.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
So in the.
Speaker 5 (12:48):
Laws that passed in California, you could deliver liquor, drop
it on the front door and leave. It's against the
law to do that, but there's no penalties.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
That was the same thing.
Speaker 5 (13:01):
They put on the ballot in Colorado, but that was
one of the things that Colorado turned down. But that's
going to pass eventually here, and we're going to be
dropping alo cahol on someone's porch because the way the
ballots are written are crazy. You know, I can get
into the way a ballot's written. Most people don't even
understand it.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
You know.
Speaker 5 (13:19):
They read it on the ballot and they're like, well,
that sounds good.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
It helps hold people.
Speaker 5 (13:24):
But in reality, and there's a specific rule that passed
this year that I'm against it Okay, that doesn't matter whether
I'm against it or you know what I mean, But
it was I think it was deceptively written.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Okay, so quick answer on this because I want to
get something else.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
You got it.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
If you had to assign a number to the percentage
of how much this was a factor in your closing,
what percentage would you assign to the law that said
that supermarkets and convenience stores can sell be your in wine.
Speaker 5 (13:54):
Well that was about I'd say eighteen percent, but total
was about they're ten percent.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Actually, you're actually very very precise on this. You really
thought about this stuff.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
Now, those are the numbers that went down, right.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Okay, that's the actual change, the actual decline in your business. Okay,
So the other thing that I wanted to ask you.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
About is.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
The change in consumption habits. It seems like young adults
don't drink as much as they used to do. And
I think I learned this from you. Definitely don't drink
as much wine as they used to do.
Speaker 5 (14:28):
Right, that's on the wine industry. You know, you have
two categories that are growing, non alcoholics and ready to drink.
I mean, why someone goes in and buys a four
dollar can of Jack and coke when they can buy
a twenty dollars bottle of Jack and.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
Hold case of coke.
Speaker 5 (14:42):
I can't answer that question, but that's the habit of
the consumer.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
But the consumer still drinks.
Speaker 5 (14:48):
Alcohol consumption in Colorado is down, Okay.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
It is down in the.
Speaker 5 (14:54):
United States overall, but it's not down to those percentages.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (14:59):
Wine, the wine industry is getting smashed, but it'll come back,
you know what I mean. There's I think about six
months ago they destroyed eight hundred thousand gallons of wine
in New Zealand because no one wanted it and you
can't age that type of wine that they may So
the wine industry is down, but is not down everywhere.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
It's down mainly in the US. Okay.
Speaker 5 (15:20):
But again, I mean they have to start marketing and
go over so I have insight to that. So I
have another brand I'm bringing in from South Africa.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (15:29):
It's called Fishwives Fishwives Clubs, and it's actually starting in Florida.
These people are amazing people. They do one hundred thousand
cases a year. There's a big brand zero in the US,
and what are they doing. They're coming to the US.
Cool brand. You know it's gonna the market's got to rejuve.
Is it wine, Yeah, it's wine. And then I have
(15:49):
another one called in Versa, which is in a can.
It's a prosecco, but you can't have prosecco when a
can can't label a prosecco. These guys are from Italy. Yeah,
I can't even believe how good it is. I'm almost shocked.
Now they're only going to be in Florida. They're not
coming to Colorado. We work in all fifty states, so
we just go where our customers want us. But these
are wine products and they're stellar. I mean they're I
(16:13):
can't even believe how good it is. I would pick
a can of this in verse up and it's they
call it a spritz. So sprits is big in Europe, right,
it's it's it's prosecco, but they call it a sprits
because it's in a can. You can't call it percent
But you know, people start drinking stuff and they like it. Yeah,
they'll put it on TikTok and all of a sudden
we get, you.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Know, a gajillion cases sold.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Yeah, I mean I've never tried and don't entirely understand
white claw in that whole category, it's not really my scene,
but that's a byproduct of beer.
Speaker 5 (16:43):
It's really me it's you know, shockingly, when they make beer,
the leftover stuff is what they make a lot of
those out of.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
I know you adn'tbody hear that, but I don't drink it,
so I don't people love it. That's kind of funny.
It is funny.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
So they're like, the beer companies are making the hard
seltzers out of stuff that would otherwise be trash for them.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Basically correct.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
Oh, they found the products. It is genius. There is genius.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
Now there are other ones that are RTDs ready to drink,
so those actually have alcohol.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
But in that market.
Speaker 5 (17:19):
What's really unique about that market and where the supermarkets
where this is where the good stuff is going to
go away. You don't have to label ready to drink.
So if I tell you I'm selling you margarita and
it's got fourteen percent alcohol made with real tequila, I
could have an eye dropper at tequila and use grain
alcohol to get my alcohol content up, which is what
(17:40):
they do, and sell you a less quality product. And
that's what a major manufacturer is going to do. Because
what are they concerned about making money? Where we have
a boutique brand is going to use one hundred percent
tequila and not have any grain.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
Alcohol does not need to be disclosed on the label.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Wow, the wine Yogi just texted in.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
She says, one thing we're doing at my wine store
a specialized classes for wine and food pairing. It's a
great way to balance the wine pairing with the foodies
out there. Many are not necessarily wine folks. Some are
just learning about wine and some are there for lessons
in education.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
That's smart.
Speaker 5 (18:15):
Yeah, we do it. So I do a ton of
that education. You know, I do a lot of tastings.
We have a bunch of smile as that work for
us and mixologists. I mean I'm working for We have
on retainer seventeen brands and we add brands all the time,
and you know, depending on what they want to do,
where they want to do.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
It in the country. So we learn a lot of that.
Speaker 5 (18:32):
But that person's brilliant, whoever the young lady is that
called in. That's an excellent way to get people back
to wine.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
We're almost at a time.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
One quick listener question here, do you have an opinion
about CBD or THC drinks that seem to be coming out.
Speaker 5 (18:48):
Yeah, we do those too, believe it or not, because
they have four twenty parties. Okay, so we're in the
event business at five thousand events this year. Yeah. Delta nine.
I don't know if you're familiar with Delta nine. Delta
nine is a it falls under an agricultural Act. It's
made from hemp. Hemp is marijuana. The same thing. You
could have Delta nine dropped at your door. Twenty milligrams
(19:08):
in a can, and it's the same as marijuana, not
even twenty you just have it dropped on your front porch.
Legal in all forty eight states. Recreationally, it's called Delta nine.
It's a big boom. That industry's exploded, and we are
making mixed drinks with Delta light yet.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
I mean, wow, I got about thirty seconds show and
Linda wants to know which part of Chicago you're from.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
I'm from the West Side.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
All right, very good, And I just want to say, dude,
I'm gonna miss you. You're moving to Texas. I just
I'm so glad I got to know you. I'm so
grateful for your friendship. I hope we're able to keep
in touch. I don't know if you're ever coming back
to Colorado, but I don't mean permanently, but even as
a visit, make sure we catch up. We're really gonna
miss you. And thanks for teaching me so much about
(19:54):
bourbon and whiskey and just you really improved my life
just by getting to know you.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
I appreciate that. Thank you, Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
I wish you all the best.
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