Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We're joined by Denversity Councilman Kevin Flynn, who I often
describe as one of the only rational members of the
Denver City Council. And first of all, Kevin, good morning,
and thanks for making time for us.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I know you're very busy, so appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Oh sure, thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
I doing doing good. I want to talk to you
about two things.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
I want to start with the flavored tobacco and or
nicotine ban, and so why don't we start first with
anything you think we need to know that isn't obvious
about what it will do, and then whether you think
it'll pass, and then we'll talk about what your view
is of it.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Okay, there is a bill on the final this Monday,
with a public hearing in the evening that would ban
the sale in Denver of flavored tobacco products, including and
including vaping products, which of course on tobacco but containing nicotine.
(00:59):
And this passed in twenty twenty one, but Mayor Hancock
at the time vetoed it and we upheld the veto
I opposed it at the time. The goal was to
prevent sales to people under twenty one, mostly you know, kids,
(01:20):
because tobacco sales are limited to people over twenty one
and over, so the goal is to limit those sales.
My view is that we should strengthen our enforcement. But
in fact, if you look at the data, the enforcements
already working, youth usage is declining. It's there's just no
(01:44):
need to ban a legal product.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
So you're against this.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
So you're against this still, I think you're okay, And
because I think were you on the committee?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Were you the one no voter? Are you not on
that committee?
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Now? I was on the committee and I was the one.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Note, you were the one no vote?
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Okay, And I was the one no vote to publish
it this past Monday. I don't think the data is there.
The data show that, first of all, that youth usage
is already down through the enforcement were already conducting. Bands
don't really work. I think we learned that over one
hundred years ago with the bullstat Act and prohibition, didn't
(02:24):
we It leads to a black market, especially if you
ban a legal product in Denver, but somebody can go
right over the line to jeff co or Rappo County
or Adams County and buy it and bring it back
in and sell it in the park or on a
street corner. That's that's not good.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
It sounds like just so, first of all, you are correct,
So I just wanted you to have that validation for
your own self esteem that you are correct on this.
But it looks like it's going to pass, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Yes, yes it will. It's it's got and the mayor's
of the current mayor, Johnston, Yeah, I'm told supports it.
So it's it'll pass, and we'll end up with having
a black market, and and that's not good. That's not
good for law enforcement interactions with young people. And that's
why I thought we were trying to avoid you know it.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
When I was thinking about this, uh, you know we
are going to there is going to be a black market.
And I was thinking, yeah, they're going to go to
jef Go and Adams County and a Rapo County and
buy the stuff and just bring it in. And a
listener pointed out, hey, Ross Glendale is actually part of
a Rapo County, so right, can't so And most people
think of Glendale as like a neighborhood in Denver, but
(03:37):
it's really its own town and it's it's not ruled
by Denver. It's part of a Rapo County, but it's
right in the middle of everything. So couldn't people just
go to Glendale or like that feels like Denver and
just buy stuff there and then and then a Rapo
County and Glendale get the sales tax and you don't.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Yeah, you know, if I were an electrifician on Glendale,
I'd be very happy. Yeah, go ahead, please please never
pass that because you know that'll increase our sales. The
fact is, I wish people wouldn't smoke at all. You know,
I don't smoke, I don't use tobacco products. I don't vape.
I don't get it. You know, when I see the
big cloud of vapor coming out of a car or
(04:16):
on a street corner, I just I don't understand why
people would do that. But I do know that some
people use it as smoking cessation because the nicket team
helps to satisfy the craving that tobacco smoking gives, and
you can cut back gradually on the concentration. And I
know people who've used vaping to quit tobacco smoking entirely
(04:38):
and now they don't vape at all. And so I
just think it's unfortunate that we think that the best
way to keep kids from getting tobacco is to prevent
anybody from getting it, whether it's legal or not. I'm
not about to tell grown ass adults what they can buy.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
I don't understand why you're alone in this. I mean,
I realized it's Denver, and Denver is a very left
wing place and a lot of believers in the n
any state. But even in Denver, I probably would have
thought that there would be, you know, more than one
person against an idea that is not only bound to
(05:17):
not work, it's bound to have negative unintended consequences.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Like it's much more likely to have negative.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Unintended consequences than it is to achieve its stated goal.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
In my opinion, I don't understand why more people don't.
Do you think you're going to be alone in the
final vote.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
I don't know. I'm talking to a couple other members.
We'll see where the votes fall. All right, it's going
to pass.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Yeah, you know, I.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Think of Darryl of Daryl Watson as sometimes rational as well.
I'll be interested to see where he comes out in this.
I've got about ninety seconds.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
With one of those sponsors.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
He is all right, all right, Well, that answers that question.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
I worked with Daryl on a couple of things, and
I work well with him. We just disagree on this, Okay.
I just don't think that data are there. This isn't
how kids are getting it. They're getting it online, they're
getting it on TikTok. They're getting which I don't understand
and know. You can buy anything on TikTok. Right.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Yeah, By the way, the TikTok store is growing incredibly fast.
I just saw some data on this. Young people are
shopping on the TikTok store like crazy, and they're liking
the experience, and then they're going back and buying other things.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
So keep an eye on that.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Now, I've got about a minute with you here, and
I want to ask you about something else. So I
saw a report that I think was originally on Colorado
Public Radio about a nonprofit called Caring for Denver that
gets millions of tax dollars based on a quarter percent
sales tax that is targeted to mental health and substance
abuse services. And it was a pretty tough report saying,
(06:48):
you know, in short, it seems like there may not
be very good management of taxpayer money with Caring for
Denver doling out money for mental health to organizations that
don't appear to have any expertise in it. And I
guess there was a five year contract up for renewal.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Can you tell us what happened with the.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Contract and whether you think they should have gotten a
renewer at all.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Yes, they should have gotten a renewal. We renewed it
for one year so that we can evaluate not just
Caring for Denver, but the other nonprofits that have a
special sales tax here in the city. There are now
eight of them because the voters approved a Denver Health
sales tax in the last election that will start in January.
(07:31):
And it's time that we do evaluate. And one of
the things that concerned me most, some of the grantees
of Caring for Denver don't concern me as much because
I'll be frank with you, ross the lived experience of
people who have gone through drug addiction and recovered, or
gone through incarceration and have recovered, those peer to peer
(07:55):
relationships are sometimes the ones that work the best, as
opposed to zero goody goodies forming a nonprofit that they
think they know what's best for you.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more like some of
the most effective anti gang nonprofits are run by people
who were gang members.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
And I think that's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
And that's why I wasn't sure that the report was
quite as damning as CPR wanted it to be, but
it did raise some concerns.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
It did, but the current consider race. For me is
a former journalist, you know, I was at the Rocky
Mount News for so many years. What concerned me was
the Conblado open records Acts and the difficulty that the
reporter Ben Marcus at CPR had in getting records that
when you spend taxpayer money ought to be public and
(08:42):
ought to be available to the public, and that's what
concerned man. That's one of the reasons I'm very happy
that we reduced it from a five year contract for
a one year, because if we had not given them
another year who administered these funds, they would build up
a huge surplus over the year and most services would
go out. Some of the grand include the city and
it funds, our star bands. Those are the non police
(09:05):
responses to low level calls, trespassing and homelessness and things
like that. So we do need it to continue for
this one year and then evaluate it, and then we'll
have this battle again around this time at the end
of next year.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
That seems like a thoughtful answer and a thoughtful approach
to the question. Kevin Flynn, Denver City Council and former
Rocky Mountain News Right, were you at the Rocky Mountain
News for a long time.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Rocky Mountain News. Yeah? Right, so the one that was
easier to the one that was really easier to read
in the bathroom.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Kevin, thanks for thanks for being such a rational voice
on Denver City Council, which desperately needs.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
When I appreciate what you do, Take care, all right,
you two
We're joined by Denversity Councilman Kevin Flynn, who I often
describe as one of the only rational members of the
Denver City Council. And first of all, Kevin, good morning,
and thanks for making time for us.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I know you're very busy, so appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Oh sure, thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
I doing doing good. I want to talk to you
about two things.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
I want to start with the flavored tobacco and or
nicotine ban, and so why don't we start first with
anything you think we need to know that isn't obvious
about what it will do, and then whether you think
it'll pass, and then we'll talk about what your view
is of it.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Okay, there is a bill on the final this Monday,
with a public hearing in the evening that would ban
the sale in Denver of flavored tobacco products, including and
including vaping products, which of course on tobacco but containing nicotine.
(00:59):
And this passed in twenty twenty one, but Mayor Hancock
at the time vetoed it and we upheld the veto
I opposed it at the time. The goal was to
prevent sales to people under twenty one, mostly you know, kids,
(01:20):
because tobacco sales are limited to people over twenty one
and over, so the goal is to limit those sales.
My view is that we should strengthen our enforcement. But
in fact, if you look at the data, the enforcements
already working, youth usage is declining. It's there's just no
(01:44):
need to ban a legal product.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
So you're against this.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
So you're against this still, I think you're okay, And
because I think were you on the committee?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Were you the one no voter? Are you not on
that committee?
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Now? I was on the committee and I was the one.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Note, you were the one no vote?
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Okay, And I was the one no vote to publish
it this past Monday. I don't think the data is there.
The data show that, first of all, that youth usage
is already down through the enforcement were already conducting. Bands
don't really work. I think we learned that over one
hundred years ago with the bullstat Act and prohibition, didn't
(02:24):
we It leads to a black market, especially if you
ban a legal product in Denver, but somebody can go
right over the line to jeff co or Rappo County
or Adams County and buy it and bring it back
in and sell it in the park or on a
street corner. That's that's not good.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
It sounds like just so, first of all, you are correct,
So I just wanted you to have that validation for
your own self esteem that you are correct on this.
But it looks like it's going to pass, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Yes, yes it will. It's it's got and the mayor's
of the current mayor, Johnston, Yeah, I'm told supports it.
So it's it'll pass, and we'll end up with having
a black market, and and that's not good. That's not
good for law enforcement interactions with young people. And that's
why I thought we were trying to avoid you know it.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
When I was thinking about this, uh, you know we
are going to there is going to be a black market.
And I was thinking, yeah, they're going to go to
jef Go and Adams County and a Rapo County and
buy the stuff and just bring it in. And a
listener pointed out, hey, Ross Glendale is actually part of
a Rapo County, so right, can't so And most people
think of Glendale as like a neighborhood in Denver, but
(03:37):
it's really its own town and it's it's not ruled
by Denver. It's part of a Rapo County, but it's
right in the middle of everything. So couldn't people just
go to Glendale or like that feels like Denver and
just buy stuff there and then and then a Rapo
County and Glendale get the sales tax and you don't.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Yeah, you know, if I were an electrifician on Glendale,
I'd be very happy. Yeah, go ahead, please please never
pass that because you know that'll increase our sales. The
fact is, I wish people wouldn't smoke at all. You know,
I don't smoke, I don't use tobacco products. I don't vape.
I don't get it. You know, when I see the
big cloud of vapor coming out of a car or
(04:16):
on a street corner, I just I don't understand why
people would do that. But I do know that some
people use it as smoking cessation because the nicket team
helps to satisfy the craving that tobacco smoking gives, and
you can cut back gradually on the concentration. And I
know people who've used vaping to quit tobacco smoking entirely
(04:38):
and now they don't vape at all. And so I
just think it's unfortunate that we think that the best
way to keep kids from getting tobacco is to prevent
anybody from getting it, whether it's legal or not. I'm
not about to tell grown ass adults what they can buy.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
I don't understand why you're alone in this. I mean,
I realized it's Denver, and Denver is a very left
wing place and a lot of believers in the n
any state. But even in Denver, I probably would have
thought that there would be, you know, more than one
person against an idea that is not only bound to
(05:17):
not work, it's bound to have negative unintended consequences.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Like it's much more likely to have negative.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Unintended consequences than it is to achieve its stated goal.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
In my opinion, I don't understand why more people don't.
Do you think you're going to be alone in the
final vote.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
I don't know. I'm talking to a couple other members.
We'll see where the votes fall. All right, it's going
to pass.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Yeah, you know, I.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Think of Darryl of Daryl Watson as sometimes rational as well.
I'll be interested to see where he comes out in this.
I've got about ninety seconds.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
With one of those sponsors.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
He is all right, all right, Well, that answers that question.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
I worked with Daryl on a couple of things, and
I work well with him. We just disagree on this, Okay.
I just don't think that data are there. This isn't
how kids are getting it. They're getting it online, they're
getting it on TikTok. They're getting which I don't understand
and know. You can buy anything on TikTok. Right.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Yeah, By the way, the TikTok store is growing incredibly fast.
I just saw some data on this. Young people are
shopping on the TikTok store like crazy, and they're liking
the experience, and then they're going back and buying other things.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
So keep an eye on that.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Now, I've got about a minute with you here, and
I want to ask you about something else. So I
saw a report that I think was originally on Colorado
Public Radio about a nonprofit called Caring for Denver that
gets millions of tax dollars based on a quarter percent
sales tax that is targeted to mental health and substance
abuse services. And it was a pretty tough report saying,
(06:48):
you know, in short, it seems like there may not
be very good management of taxpayer money with Caring for
Denver doling out money for mental health to organizations that
don't appear to have any expertise in it. And I
guess there was a five year contract up for renewal.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Can you tell us what happened with the.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Contract and whether you think they should have gotten a
renewer at all.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Yes, they should have gotten a renewal. We renewed it
for one year so that we can evaluate not just
Caring for Denver, but the other nonprofits that have a
special sales tax here in the city. There are now
eight of them because the voters approved a Denver Health
sales tax in the last election that will start in January.
(07:31):
And it's time that we do evaluate. And one of
the things that concerned me most, some of the grantees
of Caring for Denver don't concern me as much because
I'll be frank with you, ross the lived experience of
people who have gone through drug addiction and recovered, or
gone through incarceration and have recovered, those peer to peer
(07:55):
relationships are sometimes the ones that work the best, as
opposed to zero goody goodies forming a nonprofit that they
think they know what's best for you.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more like some of
the most effective anti gang nonprofits are run by people
who were gang members.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
And I think that's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
And that's why I wasn't sure that the report was
quite as damning as CPR wanted it to be, but
it did raise some concerns.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
It did, but the current consider race. For me is
a former journalist, you know, I was at the Rocky
Mount News for so many years. What concerned me was
the Conblado open records Acts and the difficulty that the
reporter Ben Marcus at CPR had in getting records that
when you spend taxpayer money ought to be public and
(08:42):
ought to be available to the public, and that's what
concerned man. That's one of the reasons I'm very happy
that we reduced it from a five year contract for
a one year, because if we had not given them
another year who administered these funds, they would build up
a huge surplus over the year and most services would
go out. Some of the grand include the city and
it funds, our star bands. Those are the non police
(09:05):
responses to low level calls, trespassing and homelessness and things
like that. So we do need it to continue for
this one year and then evaluate it, and then we'll
have this battle again around this time at the end
of next year.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
That seems like a thoughtful answer and a thoughtful approach
to the question. Kevin Flynn, Denver City Council and former
Rocky Mountain News Right, were you at the Rocky Mountain
News for a long time.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Rocky Mountain News. Yeah? Right, so the one that was
easier to the one that was really easier to read
in the bathroom.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Kevin, thanks for thanks for being such a rational voice
on Denver City Council, which desperately needs.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
When I appreciate what you do, Take care, all right,
you two
The Ross Kaminsky Show News
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