Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I saw over on our news partner's KATVR Fox thirty
one website an interesting headline, Woman's nineteen eighty seven murders solved.
And I'm actually gonna not even read more of the headline,
just levi and suspense for a moment there, so that
our guests can kind of tell you the rest of
the story. Michelle Kennedy is a crime analysis supervisor at
(00:23):
the Douglas County Sheriff and an investigative genealogist, which sounds
like a lot of fun to a nerd like me. Michelle,
good morning, Thanks for making time for us on short notice.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Good morning, and thanks for sharing Ronda's case.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Right, so tell us a little bit about Ronda's case.
Who is Ronda and what is the case?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
So in April, on April first, nineteen eighty seven, Rhonda
Fisher's body was found down on an embankment in the
thirty five hundred block of South Perry Park Road in
rural Douglas County, south of Sedalia. She was found nude
and she had been sexually assaulted and strangled.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
So, and you said nineteen eighty seven, right, so we're
talking what thirty five years ago or so eight thirty
eight years ago.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
So.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
All right, so let's take the next step then. So obviously,
for some amount of time, well until almost now, it
wasn't solved at the time. Were there any strong suspects
at the time.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
There were at least two suspects that were looked into
to include the suspect that was attributed to this case,
but we didn't have the DNA technology that we have now,
so we weren't able to make a final determination until recently.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Michelle talk about the DNA technology that was used, because
it's pretty fascinating to talk about a thirty eight year
old cold case that you're able to resurrect and solve
based on some evidence that was literally at the scene
of the crime.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Well, one of the good things that occurred in this
case was that we had a great team of the
initial detectives and csis that responded and so they collected
the evidence, They placed paper bags over Ronda's hands, and
they preserved that evidence and it's been preserved since nineteen
eighty seven. I wasn't here in nineteen eighty seven, but
(02:21):
then in twenty seventeen, we had a cold case detective
at the time and he submitted some of that DNA evidence,
but the technology at the time wasn't advanced enough to
develop a full DNA profile. And then in early twenty
twenty five or earlier this year, myself and a DNA
(02:43):
analyst and the cold case detective had an evidence review
where we went through the evidence determined what could be
sent for additional DNA testing, Was there any new evidence
that hadn't been tested, And we sent the paper bags
that had been on Rhonda's hands when she was found
(03:04):
at the crime scene, So that was not something that
we had ever submitted for DNA processing at the time,
you know, since she was found.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
That's that's very clever, that's remarkable. So it's from from
sitting here in the in the cheap seats Michelle and
not really knowing very much about this stuff at all,
it does it does seem to me that there are
two primary ways when you're going with the with the DNA,
there's two paths that can go down. And again I'm
sure I'm massively oversimplifying or just wrong, but sometimes I
(03:38):
hear cases where the DNA leads to a relative, a
cousin that's you know, shows up in something like twenty
three in me, even if it's maybe not exactly that one,
and then law enforcement uses that to try to find
whoever was actually in Colorado. And sometimes it's just direct
you have the DNA of the suspect, of the of
(03:58):
the perpetrator on file in the database for some other reasons. So,
first of all, is that kind of way to think
about two paths? Is that kind of right? And if
it is, what was it in this case?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Yeah, that's that's correct. So with today's advancements we really
use when we're speaking about DNA, we really use two
different methods. If we have DNA and we submit, the
first step is to submit that DNA. Once a DNA
profile has been developed, submit that DNA to CODIS, which
(04:32):
is the FBI's DNA database. It stands for the Combined
DNA Index System. If there is a hit with an offender,
we don't need to move forward with the investigative genetic
genealogy that you were talking about, identifying DNA relatives and
building family trees and identifying a suspect that way. In
(04:52):
this case, we received a CODIS case to case match
with three Denver homicides from nineteen seventy eight seventy nine.
I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Wow, all right, So we have two minutes or we
have a minute and a half left here, Michelle, So
tell us a little bit about the about the perpetrator,
about the guy who killed Ronda, and what's his status
right now.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
So the case to case matching codis led us to
Vincent Daryl Groves, and he was one of Colorado's most
prolific serial killers. He died in custody in nineteen six,
nineteen ninety six, and since that time he's been attributed
to four additional homicides. We believe he's responsible for anywhere
(05:42):
from twelve to twenty homicides in the Denver metro area
between nineteen seventy eight and nineteen eighty eight.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Wow, wow, all right. I don't think I need to
ask you to add more. I just I want to
say congratulations and thank you for solving this case. I
don't know if Ronda's family is around, maybe just talk
about that very briefly. You know, there is there anybody
(06:13):
still around close to Ronda who's kind of waiting for
closure that you were able to provide.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Unfortunately, both of Ronda's parents are deceased and so is
her brother. So we weren't able to share this information
with them before they passed, but we were able to
contact a cousin and we shared information with the family
that way, and they're very grateful.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
I'm sure they are. I'm sure they are. All of
us are for your work. Michelle Kennedy is the Crime
Analysis Supervisor and investigative genealogist with the Douglas County Sheriff's Office.
Thanks again for your hard work and for solving this
cold case and for spending some time with us this morning.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Thank you so much. We have a great team here.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Absolutely
I saw over on our news partner's KATVR Fox thirty
one website an interesting headline, Woman's nineteen eighty seven murders solved.
And I'm actually gonna not even read more of the headline,
just levi and suspense for a moment there, so that
our guests can kind of tell you the rest of
the story. Michelle Kennedy is a crime analysis supervisor at
(00:23):
the Douglas County Sheriff and an investigative genealogist, which sounds
like a lot of fun to a nerd like me. Michelle,
good morning, Thanks for making time for us on short notice.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Good morning, and thanks for sharing Ronda's case.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Right, so tell us a little bit about Ronda's case.
Who is Ronda and what is the case?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
So in April, on April first, nineteen eighty seven, Rhonda
Fisher's body was found down on an embankment in the
thirty five hundred block of South Perry Park Road in
rural Douglas County, south of Sedalia. She was found nude
and she had been sexually assaulted and strangled.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
So, and you said nineteen eighty seven, right, so we're
talking what thirty five years ago or so eight thirty
eight years ago.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
So.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
All right, so let's take the next step then. So obviously,
for some amount of time, well until almost now, it
wasn't solved at the time. Were there any strong suspects
at the time.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
There were at least two suspects that were looked into
to include the suspect that was attributed to this case,
but we didn't have the DNA technology that we have now,
so we weren't able to make a final determination until recently.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Michelle talk about the DNA technology that was used, because
it's pretty fascinating to talk about a thirty eight year
old cold case that you're able to resurrect and solve
based on some evidence that was literally at the scene
of the crime.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Well, one of the good things that occurred in this
case was that we had a great team of the
initial detectives and csis that responded and so they collected
the evidence, They placed paper bags over Ronda's hands, and
they preserved that evidence and it's been preserved since nineteen
eighty seven. I wasn't here in nineteen eighty seven, but
(02:21):
then in twenty seventeen, we had a cold case detective
at the time and he submitted some of that DNA evidence,
but the technology at the time wasn't advanced enough to
develop a full DNA profile. And then in early twenty
twenty five or earlier this year, myself and a DNA
(02:43):
analyst and the cold case detective had an evidence review
where we went through the evidence determined what could be
sent for additional DNA testing, Was there any new evidence
that hadn't been tested, And we sent the paper bags
that had been on Rhonda's hands when she was found
(03:04):
at the crime scene, So that was not something that
we had ever submitted for DNA processing at the time,
you know, since she was found.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
That's that's very clever, that's remarkable. So it's from from
sitting here in the in the cheap seats Michelle and
not really knowing very much about this stuff at all,
it does it does seem to me that there are
two primary ways when you're going with the with the DNA,
there's two paths that can go down. And again I'm
sure I'm massively oversimplifying or just wrong, but sometimes I
(03:38):
hear cases where the DNA leads to a relative, a
cousin that's you know, shows up in something like twenty
three in me, even if it's maybe not exactly that one,
and then law enforcement uses that to try to find
whoever was actually in Colorado. And sometimes it's just direct
you have the DNA of the suspect, of the of
(03:58):
the perpetrator on file in the database for some other reasons. So,
first of all, is that kind of way to think
about two paths? Is that kind of right? And if
it is, what was it in this case?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Yeah, that's that's correct. So with today's advancements we really
use when we're speaking about DNA, we really use two
different methods. If we have DNA and we submit, the
first step is to submit that DNA. Once a DNA
profile has been developed, submit that DNA to CODIS, which
(04:32):
is the FBI's DNA database. It stands for the Combined
DNA Index System. If there is a hit with an offender,
we don't need to move forward with the investigative genetic
genealogy that you were talking about, identifying DNA relatives and
building family trees and identifying a suspect that way. In
(04:52):
this case, we received a CODIS case to case match
with three Denver homicides from nineteen seventy eight seventy nine.
I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Wow, all right, So we have two minutes or we
have a minute and a half left here, Michelle, So
tell us a little bit about the about the perpetrator,
about the guy who killed Ronda, and what's his status
right now.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
So the case to case matching codis led us to
Vincent Daryl Groves, and he was one of Colorado's most
prolific serial killers. He died in custody in nineteen six,
nineteen ninety six, and since that time he's been attributed
to four additional homicides. We believe he's responsible for anywhere
(05:42):
from twelve to twenty homicides in the Denver metro area
between nineteen seventy eight and nineteen eighty eight.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Wow, wow, all right. I don't think I need to
ask you to add more. I just I want to
say congratulations and thank you for solving this case. I
don't know if Ronda's family is around, maybe just talk
about that very briefly. You know, there is there anybody
(06:13):
still around close to Ronda who's kind of waiting for
closure that you were able to provide.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Unfortunately, both of Ronda's parents are deceased and so is
her brother. So we weren't able to share this information
with them before they passed, but we were able to
contact a cousin and we shared information with the family
that way, and they're very grateful.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
I'm sure they are. I'm sure they are. All of
us are for your work. Michelle Kennedy is the Crime
Analysis Supervisor and investigative genealogist with the Douglas County Sheriff's Office.
Thanks again for your hard work and for solving this
cold case and for spending some time with us this morning.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Thank you so much. We have a great team here.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Absolutely
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