Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You know, I'm a science nerd.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
You know, I talk a lot on the show about
not so much about climate change because I'm very much
of a skeptic. Not that climate changes, but I'm very
much of a skeptic that it's important. I don't actually
think it's important, which my next guest probably doesn't.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Want to hear.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
But but it doesn't really matter what I think, because
lots of people think it's important.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Government thinks it's important. I don't know that Trump thinks it's.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Important, but government thinks it's important, and a lot of
people are trying to do a lot of things to
lessen some potential future harm from climate change. So the
fact that I'm skeptical about all that is irrelevant because
billions and billions of dollars are being spent on it.
Businesses are being formed to address the problem in all
(00:51):
kinds of different ways, right, different sorts of engines and
different sorts of fuels and different sorts of whatever.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
And one of the technologies it's.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Been talked about for quite some time, but frankly I
don't know a ton about it, is carbon capture and sequestration.
So joining us to talk about it, Matt Rube is
vice president of business development at Heimdahl h E I
M D A L. And they are in this business. Matt,
thanks for joining me here on KOA. It's good to
see you.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Goodness to you as well, and thanks so much for
having me. I appreciate the chance to come and talk
about it.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Very very glad to So.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
I'm not going to debate climate change stuff with you.
Tell us what, tell us how what your company does
aims to address a particular aspect of this issue.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Yeah, for sure, And I mean you touch You touched
on that and described it. I think pretty perfectly. A
lot of people care about this. There's a lot of
ways to potentially tackle this problem, and where we're taking
one approachure to that. The way that we do that
is we basically build technology and industrial facilities that pull
carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, and then we partner with
(02:07):
companies that take that carbon dioxide and either use it
for something or store it away so that it's no
longer a greenhouse gas and the atmosphere.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
That's essentially what we do.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Okay, so this is going to be a very naive question.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
On power plants, there are often devices called scrubbers that
are supposed to take certain things out of the exhaust
that's coming out of the power plant so that then
the air that eventually comes out is clean. Now I
realized we're not talking about exactly the same We're not
talking about exactly the same thing. But in what ways
(02:41):
are what you are doing similar or different to the
concept of a scrubber.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Yeah, it's very similar to that you're spot on.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
So there's ways of capturing carbon dioxide emissions or other
types of toxic gas emissions at.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
The point of creation.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
So a lot of power plants something called combined cycle
power plants to do this already, where they'll often they'll
use natural gas. They'll they'll capture all of the embissions
off of that and then and then do something with it.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
You know.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
CO two is used as a commodity. Sometimes they sell it,
sometimes they store it. There's various things that they can
do with those emissions. What we're doing is we're essentially
for all of the power generation that occurs that's not
captured at the source UH, we're able to basically capture those.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
So there's a lot of COO two in the atmosphere.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
There's there's far more than UH than than there needs
to be, and as you mentioned, there's there's some scientific
thought that it's causing some harm. And so what we
essentially do is, instead of capturing it at the source
of generation uh, we try and find a cost effective
and energy efficient way of taking that excess carbon dioxide.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
From the atmosphere.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Okay, I want to gently push back on a couple
of things. You said carbon dioxide and other toxic gases.
Carbon dioxide is not a toxic gas unless we're sitting
in a room that's all, you know, full of carbon dioxide.
You're right, and you and you said we have far
more carbon dioxide than we need.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
We've got like point zero four.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Percent of the atmosphere as carbon dioxide, and as it's
gone up a little bit in the last generation or two,
we've had a lot more plant growth on that planet.
So I'm not really you know, we we don't need
to do the scare mongering thing. You've already got the
politicians on your side.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
But I so, but what okay, so.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
On the politician, But I do hear you on that side.
It's a it's a it's there's different science you could
look at to talk about whether or not four hundred
and forty one ppm is too much, not you know,
a fine amount, but uh, that's a whole different discussion.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
So my background is is business, and what I'm really
interested regarding your business is in things change over time, right,
people find efficient ways to do things that couldn't be
done in the past, or like fracking is a perfect example,
we could never efficiently, we can never cost effectively get
(05:07):
this oil out of the ground until someone figured out
how to do fracking and horizontal drilling.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
So just because.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Something couldn't be done cost effectively in the past absolutely
does not mean it can't be done cost effectively in
the future. And in the past, carbon capture has not
been cost effective. I'm guessing, especially since you're a relatively
new business, you're not one hundred year old company, right,
I'm guessing you guys think you have a way to
do this that's fairly cost effective.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Can you talk about that a little bit?
Speaker 4 (05:36):
Yes, absolutely, So we're not the only ones who are
going to make that claim.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Obviously.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
You know all of the new companies and even existing
oil and gas companies that are working on new technologies
to do the carbon capture approach more cost effectively will
give you a different answer on how they're going to
solve that problem.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
On the cost effectiveness challenge.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
The way that we say that we do it is
we combine a low cost of essential materials that we
need to do it. The feedstock of the primary process
we use is limestone, which is available everywhere and it's
super cheap. And we also model our systematic approach off
of existing cost effective industries that are already operating at scale.
(06:18):
And the combination of those two things is our value
proposition for how we bring the cost down from what
it's been in the past.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Okay, And just to take a step back so listeners
know what we're talking about. I'm going to try to
word this as simply as I possibly can, and you
tell me what I get wrong. What you propose to
do is run the air all around us through your systems,
take the carbon dioxide out of it, concentrate it somehow,
(06:46):
compress it, give it, I guess, give it to a
partner company that will then store it somewhere so that
then we have a lower concentration of carbon dioxide in
our atmosphere.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Is that about right? Even though even overly simplify.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
It's overly simplified, but it's just about right.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Yeah, there's there's the ways that you sort of do
the whole pulling the air through the system is different
for different approaches. Some of the like technical details are
a little different, but from the basics perspective, you've got.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
It spot on.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Okay. So, and I know this isn't your business, you're
part of the business, but.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
I want to ask this anyway, just because I'm sure
there's some listeners who are wondering when when you get
the CO two out of the air and deliver it
to your partner companies, where do they put it to
keep it out of our atmosphere.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Absolutely, so there's any number of ways that they can
do that. One of the most common in terms of
storage just pure storage is what's called a Class six. Well,
there's a whole program and classification of underground storage. Well,
and there's different classes like one through five. Class one
or two is you know, get toxic waste storage of
(07:56):
some kind. Class Class two is for enhance store recovery.
So it's that that's the fracking you were talking about, essentially,
so different classes. Class six is purpose built for the
storage of carbon dioxide, which means it's deeper, it's only
into certain types of underground rock formations that have permeability
(08:17):
for gases, and it has to be beneath a impermeable
cap rock, so it can't travel different places or contaminate
water or anything like that, and it has to meet a.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Bunch of requirements for it.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
And so a lot of companies are building those wells
that are purpose built for this.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Are so you said purpose built, So of the carbon
dioxide storage that's currently existing, how many of them are
like man made wells true fully? And how many of
them are man made access into existing large underground caverns.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
Great question.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
So I don't have a specific answer for you on
that one in terms of like the ways that the
geology works in how you can either retrofit for an
existing formation if you can, you know, take a pre
existing well that just doesn't meet all the criteria and retrofiting.
(09:16):
You know, there's so many wells that we're using oil
production that have since been what's called orphaned, so they're
not used for oil production anymore. They're kind of just
sitting around, And I know that there's been research done
into how to make those productives. You know, make them
safe for storage, so you can essentially take something that
was used to pull it out of the ground and
use it.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
To put it back.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
We're talking about the productivity going. We're talking with.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Matt Ue, VP of business development at Heimdal. Their website
is H E I M D A L C CU
dot com. I literally have one minute left and I
want to go back to the economics with you right now,
for sure, right right now, what are the economics of this?
I don't mean is it profitable or not? I mean
who pays for it? And why is anybody paying anything
(09:59):
for this? Is that all government funding? Does private industry care?
Would they care without government funding?
Speaker 4 (10:05):
Private industry would absolutely care without government funding. There are
a lot of companies that have committed to lowering their
carbon impact. Again, this gets a little bit into the
date on you know, who cares and why? So there's
private companies that care about this and reducing the missions
impact of their businesses, and they do that by helping
support businesses that you know, offset those.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Emissions like what we do.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
But even beyond that, this has become a compliance and
a global question. There are companies, there are countries European
Union that are starting to consider you know, carbon borderbatement
management systems that are basically tariffs on the carbon impact
of goods and services.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
And the EU is going to be putting this in place.
There are other countries that are considering it.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
And so when you talk about the value of lowering
the carbon intensity of goods and services through things like
what we're doing, there's a market for it.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Fascinating.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
All right, There's so much more to talk about, but
we've got to leave it there. Oh one, just very
quick question. I saw on your website that you were
planning on having a commercial demonstration facility in Oklahoma, and
on the website it said by twenty twenty four, did
that get Is that running?
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Did that get done?
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (11:17):
We are.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
We have that facility in Oklahoma. We had a formal
launch event in August. We're doing a lot of processes
to get that ramped up to the capacity it could
be at. But it's out there and so anybody is interested,
reach out, folks.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Carbon capture and sequestration is a fairly big part of
the conversation regarding climate policy, and regardless of what I
think about it, it's big business. Government cares, a lot
of businesses care and Matt Rube is VP of business
Development at Heimdall. They're trying to help help along in
(11:54):
that process. Matt, thanks so much for your time, really
interesting conversation.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
I appreciate it, appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
Thank you, Rob Snory fam
You know, I'm a science nerd.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
You know, I talk a lot on the show about
not so much about climate change because I'm very much
of a skeptic. Not that climate changes, but I'm very
much of a skeptic that it's important. I don't actually
think it's important, which my next guest probably doesn't.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Want to hear.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
But but it doesn't really matter what I think, because
lots of people think it's important.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Government thinks it's important. I don't know that Trump thinks it's.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Important, but government thinks it's important, and a lot of
people are trying to do a lot of things to
lessen some potential future harm from climate change. So the
fact that I'm skeptical about all that is irrelevant because
billions and billions of dollars are being spent on it.
Businesses are being formed to address the problem in all
(00:51):
kinds of different ways, right, different sorts of engines and
different sorts of fuels and different sorts of whatever.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
And one of the technologies it's.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Been talked about for quite some time, but frankly I
don't know a ton about it, is carbon capture and sequestration.
So joining us to talk about it, Matt Rube is
vice president of business development at Heimdahl h E I
M D A L. And they are in this business. Matt,
thanks for joining me here on KOA. It's good to
see you.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Goodness to you as well, and thanks so much for
having me. I appreciate the chance to come and talk
about it.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Very very glad to So.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
I'm not going to debate climate change stuff with you.
Tell us what, tell us how what your company does
aims to address a particular aspect of this issue.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Yeah, for sure, And I mean you touch You touched
on that and described it. I think pretty perfectly. A
lot of people care about this. There's a lot of
ways to potentially tackle this problem, and where we're taking
one approachure to that. The way that we do that
is we basically build technology and industrial facilities that pull
carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, and then we partner with
(02:07):
companies that take that carbon dioxide and either use it
for something or store it away so that it's no
longer a greenhouse gas and the atmosphere.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
That's essentially what we do.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Okay, so this is going to be a very naive question.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
On power plants, there are often devices called scrubbers that
are supposed to take certain things out of the exhaust
that's coming out of the power plant so that then
the air that eventually comes out is clean. Now I
realized we're not talking about exactly the same We're not
talking about exactly the same thing. But in what ways
(02:41):
are what you are doing similar or different to the
concept of a scrubber.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Yeah, it's very similar to that you're spot on.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
So there's ways of capturing carbon dioxide emissions or other
types of toxic gas emissions at.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
The point of creation.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
So a lot of power plants something called combined cycle
power plants to do this already, where they'll often they'll
use natural gas. They'll they'll capture all of the embissions
off of that and then and then do something with it.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
You know.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
CO two is used as a commodity. Sometimes they sell it,
sometimes they store it. There's various things that they can
do with those emissions. What we're doing is we're essentially
for all of the power generation that occurs that's not
captured at the source UH, we're able to basically capture those.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
So there's a lot of COO two in the atmosphere.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
There's there's far more than UH than than there needs
to be, and as you mentioned, there's there's some scientific
thought that it's causing some harm. And so what we
essentially do is, instead of capturing it at the source
of generation uh, we try and find a cost effective
and energy efficient way of taking that excess carbon dioxide.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
From the atmosphere.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Okay, I want to gently push back on a couple
of things. You said carbon dioxide and other toxic gases.
Carbon dioxide is not a toxic gas unless we're sitting
in a room that's all, you know, full of carbon dioxide.
You're right, and you and you said we have far
more carbon dioxide than we need.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
We've got like point zero four.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Percent of the atmosphere as carbon dioxide, and as it's
gone up a little bit in the last generation or two,
we've had a lot more plant growth on that planet.
So I'm not really you know, we we don't need
to do the scare mongering thing. You've already got the
politicians on your side.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
But I so, but what okay, so.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
On the politician, But I do hear you on that side.
It's a it's a it's there's different science you could
look at to talk about whether or not four hundred
and forty one ppm is too much, not you know,
a fine amount, but uh, that's a whole different discussion.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
So my background is is business, and what I'm really
interested regarding your business is in things change over time, right,
people find efficient ways to do things that couldn't be
done in the past, or like fracking is a perfect example,
we could never efficiently, we can never cost effectively get
(05:07):
this oil out of the ground until someone figured out
how to do fracking and horizontal drilling.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
So just because.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Something couldn't be done cost effectively in the past absolutely
does not mean it can't be done cost effectively in
the future. And in the past, carbon capture has not
been cost effective. I'm guessing, especially since you're a relatively
new business, you're not one hundred year old company, right,
I'm guessing you guys think you have a way to
do this that's fairly cost effective.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Can you talk about that a little bit?
Speaker 4 (05:36):
Yes, absolutely, So we're not the only ones who are
going to make that claim.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Obviously.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
You know all of the new companies and even existing
oil and gas companies that are working on new technologies
to do the carbon capture approach more cost effectively will
give you a different answer on how they're going to
solve that problem.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
On the cost effectiveness challenge.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
The way that we say that we do it is
we combine a low cost of essential materials that we
need to do it. The feedstock of the primary process
we use is limestone, which is available everywhere and it's
super cheap. And we also model our systematic approach off
of existing cost effective industries that are already operating at scale.
(06:18):
And the combination of those two things is our value
proposition for how we bring the cost down from what
it's been in the past.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Okay, And just to take a step back so listeners
know what we're talking about. I'm going to try to
word this as simply as I possibly can, and you
tell me what I get wrong. What you propose to
do is run the air all around us through your systems,
take the carbon dioxide out of it, concentrate it somehow,
(06:46):
compress it, give it, I guess, give it to a
partner company that will then store it somewhere so that
then we have a lower concentration of carbon dioxide in
our atmosphere.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Is that about right? Even though even overly simplify.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
It's overly simplified, but it's just about right.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Yeah, there's there's the ways that you sort of do
the whole pulling the air through the system is different
for different approaches. Some of the like technical details are
a little different, but from the basics perspective, you've got.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
It spot on.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Okay. So, and I know this isn't your business, you're
part of the business, but.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
I want to ask this anyway, just because I'm sure
there's some listeners who are wondering when when you get
the CO two out of the air and deliver it
to your partner companies, where do they put it to
keep it out of our atmosphere.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Absolutely, so there's any number of ways that they can
do that. One of the most common in terms of
storage just pure storage is what's called a Class six. Well,
there's a whole program and classification of underground storage. Well,
and there's different classes like one through five. Class one
or two is you know, get toxic waste storage of
(07:56):
some kind. Class Class two is for enhance store recovery.
So it's that that's the fracking you were talking about, essentially,
so different classes. Class six is purpose built for the
storage of carbon dioxide, which means it's deeper, it's only
into certain types of underground rock formations that have permeability
(08:17):
for gases, and it has to be beneath a impermeable
cap rock, so it can't travel different places or contaminate
water or anything like that, and it has to meet a.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Bunch of requirements for it.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
And so a lot of companies are building those wells
that are purpose built for this.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Are so you said purpose built, So of the carbon
dioxide storage that's currently existing, how many of them are
like man made wells true fully? And how many of
them are man made access into existing large underground caverns.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
Great question.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
So I don't have a specific answer for you on
that one in terms of like the ways that the
geology works in how you can either retrofit for an
existing formation if you can, you know, take a pre
existing well that just doesn't meet all the criteria and retrofiting.
(09:16):
You know, there's so many wells that we're using oil
production that have since been what's called orphaned, so they're
not used for oil production anymore. They're kind of just
sitting around, And I know that there's been research done
into how to make those productives. You know, make them
safe for storage, so you can essentially take something that
was used to pull it out of the ground and
use it.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
To put it back.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
We're talking about the productivity going. We're talking with.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Matt Ue, VP of business development at Heimdal. Their website
is H E I M D A L C CU
dot com. I literally have one minute left and I
want to go back to the economics with you right now,
for sure, right right now, what are the economics of this?
I don't mean is it profitable or not? I mean
who pays for it? And why is anybody paying anything
(09:59):
for this? Is that all government funding? Does private industry care?
Would they care without government funding?
Speaker 4 (10:05):
Private industry would absolutely care without government funding. There are
a lot of companies that have committed to lowering their
carbon impact. Again, this gets a little bit into the
date on you know, who cares and why? So there's
private companies that care about this and reducing the missions
impact of their businesses, and they do that by helping
support businesses that you know, offset those.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Emissions like what we do.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
But even beyond that, this has become a compliance and
a global question. There are companies, there are countries European
Union that are starting to consider you know, carbon borderbatement
management systems that are basically tariffs on the carbon impact
of goods and services.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
And the EU is going to be putting this in place.
There are other countries that are considering it.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
And so when you talk about the value of lowering
the carbon intensity of goods and services through things like
what we're doing, there's a market for it.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Fascinating.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
All right, There's so much more to talk about, but
we've got to leave it there. Oh one, just very
quick question. I saw on your website that you were
planning on having a commercial demonstration facility in Oklahoma, and
on the website it said by twenty twenty four, did
that get Is that running?
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Did that get done?
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (11:17):
We are.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
We have that facility in Oklahoma. We had a formal
launch event in August. We're doing a lot of processes
to get that ramped up to the capacity it could
be at. But it's out there and so anybody is interested,
reach out, folks.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Carbon capture and sequestration is a fairly big part of
the conversation regarding climate policy, and regardless of what I
think about it, it's big business. Government cares, a lot
of businesses care and Matt Rube is VP of business
Development at Heimdall. They're trying to help help along in
(11:54):
that process. Matt, thanks so much for your time, really
interesting conversation.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
I appreciate it, appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
Thank you, Rob Snory fam
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