Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Channon, I'm a moron, so you need to remind me
to start things because on such a high level, I'm
a high.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Level moron, I am. It's true.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
All right, We're we're getting this going here and I've
got hopefully I will have my guest and okay, there's
there's kaa. So what we're going to talk about here
and hopefully hopefully Kelly will show up in a second.
I read there she is. I read a really interesting piece. Uh,
actually was an email blast and then I saw it
(00:30):
on the website, but from the from the Common Sense Institute.
And I have guests from the Common Sense Institute quite
frequently because they do great research on a wide range
of things, economics, crime. Uh. And we're going to talk
about electricity today because this this particular report really struck
(00:51):
a chord with me. The headline of the report is
future of Electricity Costs in Colorado. And before I bring
Kelly on, and Kelly executive director of Common Sense Institute
Common Sense Institute US dot org. But you can just
look up Common Sense Institute, Colorado and find it. You
know that some of my most frequent show guests are Doomberg,
(01:14):
Robert Bryce, and Roger Pielke Junior. And these are all
some of the biggest experts on energy, especially the first two.
And as Doomberg likes to say, energy is life, and
I will extrapolate that a little bit. It means if
(01:35):
energy is expensive, your life is expensive. That part, right,
because hitting your home, driving your car, traveling somewhere, all
of that becomes expensive, which means you're poorer because it
means you are forced to spend money on expensive energy,
(01:57):
and you don't have money left over to save for retirement,
save for your kid's college education, buy a better car,
take a vacation, go out to dinner, anything you would
like to do with your money. And so if there's anything,
(02:19):
and there are a few things that I find wildly
unacceptable as government policies, it's anything that falls into.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
The category of making energy.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
And today we're gonna talk specifically about electricity, although the
principle applies to oil as well, but we're gonna talk
about electricity. Now, anything that government does that makes electricity
more expensive is making you poorer and is wildly unacceptable.
Joining us to talk about the future of electricity costs
(02:54):
in Colorado and the report of the same name, Kelly Cawfield,
Executive director of the Common Sense Institute.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Hi, Kelly, good to see you, Thanks for being here.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
It's great. Thanks for us.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
So why don't we start with kind of the top line,
how are Colorado electricity prices right now? Maybe compared to
the rest of the nation perhaps, And then the more
important part of the conversation is what does your study
show as.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
To the upcoming path of electricity prices in our state?
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Thank you so much for us.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
This was a really important topic for all of us.
I think when we look at the cost of living
in Colorado, we're all feeling this. This is an area
that I think by bartisan leaders are talking about here
at the Capitol.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
It's a national conversation.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
We're all feeling the pain in our utility builds right now.
So we thought it was very important to better understand
what's going to be the cost to all of us
as the state works to achieve this zero carbon emissions
goal from the electric sector by twenty forty. So we're
(04:09):
looking at a big increase for ROSS. I mean, what
the analysis was showing was based off of the state's
own modeling that they put out last year.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
They said, hey, how much is this going to cost
the utility side, what equipment cost or needed.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
What's it going to cost the utility side to meet
this very ambitious goal of achieving zero carbon emissions?
Speaker 3 (04:30):
But what was missing was what are we all going
to pay to reach that goal?
Speaker 4 (04:36):
And like you just said, we're looking at least a
ninety two hundred dollars cost increase per Colorado household by
twenty forty and honestly, ross it could be a lot more,
but this is I think a very conservative estimate of
what we're all going to be asked to pay.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
I'm going to interject one thing and then we'll just
get some more answers from Kelly.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
I've mentioned this a.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Time or two on the show before, and I just
want folks to understand the dynamic here. When you have
a regulated public utility that is a monopoly and it's
given area. Their business model is that they invest in
stuff and they are basically guaranteed some certain percentage return
on those investments. And Excel Energy, for example, is a
(05:25):
very large public company. They're huge in Colorado, they're huge
in Minnesota a few other states. And what you need
to understand is that they don't care about how much
you pay in electricity costs all they care about.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
I mean they would care, They would care.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
If what happens means there's a lot less demand for electricity,
but all else being equal, they don't care how much
you pay. Because if Jared Polus in his less push
for so called zero emission energy, which is probably Jared
Polus's single dumbest policy.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
And I agree with Jared on some things, right, I say.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Frequently that as democratic governors go, he's actually better than average.
But this is his worst policy, to the extent that
Excel is kind of forced by the government to spend
I don't know, fifty billion dollars on so called green energy.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
In their mind, okay, it's fifty billion dollars.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
But we're going to do this with the PUC guaranteeing
us that not only are we going to eventually get
back to fifty billion, but we're going to make.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Eleven percent on it every year.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
We're going to make another five and a half billion
dollars in profit every year, and our stock price is
going to go up and our dividends are going to
go up. And this is what they're here for. So
do not ever think that the utility is on your side.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
It's not that they hate you. They're not trying to
hurt you.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
But they are trying to benefit themselves as any company would.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
And the way they.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Benefit themselves is by not just going along with, but
supporting government pushes to make your electricity bills more expensive.
All right, I'm gonna get off my soapbox, Kelly. Did
I say anything there that you think is wrong?
Speaker 3 (07:13):
You think you're asking the right questions.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
And you know EXCEL as a key stakeholder obviously in
this conversation, and when you talk to EXCEL, I mean
they will say that they are data they acknowledge.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Right.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
The state's report is going to show again we.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Modeled the household impact based on a report the state's
Colorado Energy Office commissioned last year. And I don't want
to put words in their mouth, but I think EXCEL
would say, yes, there is a massive investment needed to
meet the state's goals, and common Sense wanted to empower
(07:55):
individuals to have data, to be able to talk to
the PUC, to be able to go to the commissioners,
to be able to go to EXCEL and push back
and say, hey, this is a significant amount of money
for me over ninety two hundred dollars increase. At least
(08:16):
that's the equivalent of three to four paychecks for the
average media in Colorado household. It's the cost to four
to six months of rent. We could be investing that
money otherwise and creating some wealth generation for my family,
but now this is what I'm going to have to pay.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
So I'd encourage those conversations.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
With Excel, and I would also encourage the conversation, is
this the only way the state can meet these twenty
forty and twenty fifty zero carbon emission goals? Because when
you dig into the data that the state has, they
are heavily relying on renewable energy in order to meet
(09:02):
again this massive capacity investment we're all going to need
to make in order to meet these goals, We're going
to have to rely seventy percent on renewables ross, so
that's wind and solar, and that means we rely less
on coal, we rely less on natural gas. And I
think that's the conversation that we're hoping Colorado's and policymakers
(09:27):
and everyday Colorado's can now be empowered with the data
to push back and to defend themselves and demand a
better approach to meeting goals that I think we all share.
We all want to cleaner safe for Colorado, but let's
talk about how we get there.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Okay, so a few things first. I don't share the goal.
I do share a goal of a cleaner safe for Colorado.
I don't believe that zero carbon gets us to a
cleaner safe for Colorado.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
The other thing that you mentioned, absolutely right.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Governor Polus has long been pushing for more wind and
more solar, and I think people understand this kind of intuitively,
but I want folks to think about it explicitly. The
wind isn't always blowing and the sun isn't always shining,
and that means that in order to have electricity, let's
say at night when it's not very windy, which happens
(10:19):
I would say most nights, Okay, almost every night.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
The sun doesn't shine, Okay, almost every.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Single night, almost almost every day of the year. At sundown,
the sun goes down, it's almost infallible, and most nights
the wind isn't blowing very much. So what that means
is to have electricity at night, you either need massive
batteries at your house that most people don't have utility
(10:51):
scale batteries that Excel would have to have, and this
just doesn't exist yet at the scale they would need,
and it would be so far beyond being affordable. It
might be affordable one day in the future with new
battery technology, but right now it really doesn't exist and
it's not affordable.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
And that means you need backup power.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
And backup power means some form of energy energy generation
that is always on, and that means colon natural gas
or nuclear. And we're and this is the thing that
so many people don't understand. At the level of technology
we have today, you can as far as you want
to go toward wind and solar, and I don't want
(11:32):
to go there at all, But as far as you
want to go towards wind and solar, you still have
to have the other stuff running. And also with natural
gas power plants, which are really the second best thing
after nuclear, you can't pause them like on a winny
on a windy, sunny day, when all the renewable stuff
(11:52):
is generating a lot of power, you cannot turn off
your natural gas power plant for those hours and just
turn it on the evening. For technical reasons that I
won't get involved in it has to be on.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
All the time.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
So there's just a lot of science that doesn't work
with these big plans. All right, Kelly, you talked about
somewhere in the nine thousand dollars area per household.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Is that is that an annual number? Is it an annuals.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
Cumulative aggregate, you know, by twenty forty So you know,
some people might say, oh, that's not very much, Kelly,
but I completely disagree with the high. Fourteenth highest cost
of living state is Colorado. We are fiftieth five zero
in terms of housing affordability. So it is a significant
(12:43):
aggregate expense. And I think I have that, you know,
month by month breakdown two, which I'm happy to share.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Well, it's it's that's the aggregate, okay, So it's it's
many hundreds of dollars a year, and that's for the household.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
That was for the household.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
So now just briefly talk about the additional cost to
businesses and to industrial customers of our electricity providers.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
Right, So Common Sense Institute, our economist analyzed and modeled
that the cost per commercial business will be sixty thousand
and the cost per industrial business will be one million.
To achieve the governor's goals of zero carbon emissions by
twenty forty for the electric sector.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Okay, and you know CSI has done a lot of
economic reports, many of which point to declining still not
yet terrible, but declining, a declining business competitiveness environment in Colorado.
It's becoming a more difficult place to set up a business.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
And of course, if you're.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Going to set up something that, let's say, uses a
lot of computing power or uses a lot of electricity
for manufacturing, this kind of stuff that's happening with Colorado's
electricity prices is going to not only keep new businesses
from coming in, it's going to push existing businesses out.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
So as part of your study, Kelly, you also.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Talk about the economic impact and I'm looking at the
summary economic impact in twenty thirty. By the way, twenty
thirty sounds like a big number. It's only five years away,
so what are you seeing there?
Speaker 4 (14:22):
That's right, So it's not just the impact to the household,
but there are inflationary impacts to Colorado's economy when you
drive up everyone's cost of living, and we all know
electricity prices are significant. A part of that utility price
tag that we're all paying each month. So here at
(14:43):
the Common sent Institute, we did the dynamic modeling to
show by twenty thirty, again not far away, this would
be a GDP slowdown.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
This is not a GDP plus for us. This is
a slowdown when you make it higher cost of living
for each family. So we estimate I did two point
six billion dollars GDP slowdown.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
We'd expect fewer jobs when there's less wealth creation, less
ability for affordability in the household.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
So twenty five thousand fewer jobs and a decrease in.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
Real disposable income by at least fourteen hundred dollars for
a family of four.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Unbelievable, folks. I just want you to understand this.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
To go back to what I said when we started
this conversation, expensive energy is just a massive tax on everything.
In this new Common Sense Institute report, and again if
you're just joining, we're talking with Kelly Cawfield, Executive director.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Of the Common Sense Institute.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
The new report is called Future of Electricity Costs in Colorado.
And the governor has this vision of green everything, and
he's mandated it and the state is moving in this direction.
And this study which has Kelly notes, So, first of all,
Common Sense.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Is a nonpartisan organization.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Okay, I know folks like to think that anybody who's
actually looking out for the taxpayer or the ratepayer must
be a conservative organization, but they're not. This is all
about data, an honest analysis. And furthermore, Kelly's team got
their analysis from a state generated report and then they
just did a little more digging in a little more math.
But this is state data, and this is talking about
(16:22):
potentially twenty five thousand fewer jobs five years from now.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
I'm not talking about fifty years from now. Five years
from now.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
So, Kelly, you mentioned folks could potentially go to the
PUC when they have public hearings on this.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
What else, if anything, can the public do?
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Is there any point in lobbying the legislature? Is there
any point in sending a letter to the governor or
does he not care?
Speaker 4 (16:46):
I believe talking to the legislature is a great idea.
The time is right when we've educated the majority leaders,
the minority leaders, both sides of the aisle. This is
a top tier issue for the twenty five legislative session.
How do we bring down the cost of living in Colorado?
So that we can attract more workers, more people to
(17:09):
our great state. You know, the net migration numbers are
not looking as good as they did over ten.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Years ago, and that's impacting our competitiveness. So I think
the time is right.
Speaker 4 (17:19):
I know that there's a lot of legislation pending about
reducing fees, about potentially looking at nuclear energy, which we
know that's an important conversation. I think those would all
be good starting points to bring down the cost of
living and to bring down some of the energy costs
required for the state to meet to meet its goals.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
And I would also say, you know, ask the state to.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
Have more all the above energy policy approach, you know
could be in addition to looking at nuclear energy, keep
hearing about carbon capture storage as another lower cost effective
strategy that I think is worth sharing with policymakers and
the governor's office.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Look, I think you're right.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
And again, you know, for the record, I don't give
a rats behind about carbon. I don't care about lower carbon,
I don't care about zero carbon, I don't care about
any of it. I care about cheap energy, and I
care about clean air. Carbon is not a pollutant. But
I care very much about clean air and the answer.
There are going to be a lot of parts to
(18:25):
the answer. The main part of the answer is has
to be nuclear. It absolutely has to be nuclear because nuclear.
Because I also recognize that while I don't care about carbon,
lots of people, including people with more influence than I have,
do care about it.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Nuclear is the answer.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
We just have to find a way to get nuclear
built in a way where the regulatory costs and slow
downs of getting it built those make nuclear plants so
expensive that they end up borderline on the economics. But
maybe now with Chris Wright as Secretary of Energy and
you know, this Trump team in charge, maybe the regulatory
(19:05):
environment will get better in a way that we can
achieve some of these goals that a lot of people
care about without having these disastrous economic results. I'll give
you the last twenty nine seconds because I like prime numbers.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Thanks ros. I think that the bottom line from.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
Our view is in order to meet the state's mandates
to reduce the greenhouse gas emissions, we're all being asked
to pay more. Until now, we only knew what the
utilities had to pay. We didn't know what we were
all being asked to pay. We're talking about that ninety
two hundred dollars amount.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
It's significant, and when you.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
Look at that compared to inflation, that means electricity prices
are growing at more than three times the rate of inflation,
which is already q high, and nearly thirteen times the
growth rate the historical growth rate from twenty ten to
twenty twenty. So it's time to ask why, why is
it such a big increase, and what can the state
(19:59):
do to dedicate those expenses?
Speaker 3 (20:01):
There's another way forward to reach those targets.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Yeah, that's a fabulous point. I'm just going to reemphasize
one thing that Kelly said. If if you've been.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Concerned with the rate at which your electricity prices have
been going up in recent years, what you need to
understand is that this state report that the Common Sense
Institute is now further analyzed is showing a massive spike
upwards in the rate of electricity price increase. If you
think prices have been going up fast before, you ain't
(20:30):
seen nothing yet. And we're going to need to try
to work on the politicians and the PUC to get
them to do something different. Common Sense Institute us dot
org or an easy thing to do if you Go
to my website.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
At Roskiminski dot com.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Go in today's blogcast, you'll see information about Kelly and
the link to this report. The direct link to the
report Future of Electricity Costs in Colorado. Kelly Caffield, the
executive director of the Common Sense Institute, Thanks for being here.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
You do.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
Thanks Ross
Channon, I'm a moron, so you need to remind me
to start things because on such a high level, I'm
a high.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Level moron, I am. It's true.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
All right, We're we're getting this going here and I've
got hopefully I will have my guest and okay, there's
there's kaa. So what we're going to talk about here
and hopefully hopefully Kelly will show up in a second.
I read there she is. I read a really interesting piece. Uh,
actually was an email blast and then I saw it
(00:30):
on the website, but from the from the Common Sense Institute.
And I have guests from the Common Sense Institute quite
frequently because they do great research on a wide range
of things, economics, crime. Uh. And we're going to talk
about electricity today because this this particular report really struck
(00:51):
a chord with me. The headline of the report is
future of Electricity Costs in Colorado. And before I bring
Kelly on, and Kelly executive director of Common Sense Institute
Common Sense Institute US dot org. But you can just
look up Common Sense Institute, Colorado and find it. You
know that some of my most frequent show guests are Doomberg,
(01:14):
Robert Bryce, and Roger Pielke Junior. And these are all
some of the biggest experts on energy, especially the first two.
And as Doomberg likes to say, energy is life, and
I will extrapolate that a little bit. It means if
(01:35):
energy is expensive, your life is expensive. That part, right,
because hitting your home, driving your car, traveling somewhere, all
of that becomes expensive, which means you're poorer because it
means you are forced to spend money on expensive energy,
(01:57):
and you don't have money left over to save for retirement,
save for your kid's college education, buy a better car,
take a vacation, go out to dinner, anything you would
like to do with your money. And so if there's anything,
(02:19):
and there are a few things that I find wildly
unacceptable as government policies, it's anything that falls into.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
The category of making energy.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
And today we're gonna talk specifically about electricity, although the
principle applies to oil as well, but we're gonna talk
about electricity. Now, anything that government does that makes electricity
more expensive is making you poorer and is wildly unacceptable.
Joining us to talk about the future of electricity costs
(02:54):
in Colorado and the report of the same name, Kelly Cawfield,
Executive director of the Common Sense Institute.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Hi, Kelly, good to see you, Thanks for being here.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
It's great. Thanks for us.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
So why don't we start with kind of the top line,
how are Colorado electricity prices right now? Maybe compared to
the rest of the nation perhaps, And then the more
important part of the conversation is what does your study
show as.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
To the upcoming path of electricity prices in our state?
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Thank you so much for us.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
This was a really important topic for all of us.
I think when we look at the cost of living
in Colorado, we're all feeling this. This is an area
that I think by bartisan leaders are talking about here
at the Capitol.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
It's a national conversation.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
We're all feeling the pain in our utility builds right now.
So we thought it was very important to better understand
what's going to be the cost to all of us
as the state works to achieve this zero carbon emissions
goal from the electric sector by twenty forty. So we're
(04:09):
looking at a big increase for ROSS. I mean, what
the analysis was showing was based off of the state's
own modeling that they put out last year.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
They said, hey, how much is this going to cost
the utility side, what equipment cost or needed.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
What's it going to cost the utility side to meet
this very ambitious goal of achieving zero carbon emissions?
Speaker 3 (04:30):
But what was missing was what are we all going
to pay to reach that goal?
Speaker 4 (04:36):
And like you just said, we're looking at least a
ninety two hundred dollars cost increase per Colorado household by
twenty forty and honestly, ross it could be a lot more,
but this is I think a very conservative estimate of
what we're all going to be asked to pay.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
I'm going to interject one thing and then we'll just
get some more answers from Kelly.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
I've mentioned this a.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Time or two on the show before, and I just
want folks to understand the dynamic here. When you have
a regulated public utility that is a monopoly and it's
given area. Their business model is that they invest in
stuff and they are basically guaranteed some certain percentage return
on those investments. And Excel Energy, for example, is a
(05:25):
very large public company. They're huge in Colorado, they're huge
in Minnesota a few other states. And what you need
to understand is that they don't care about how much
you pay in electricity costs all they care about.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
I mean they would care, They would care.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
If what happens means there's a lot less demand for electricity,
but all else being equal, they don't care how much
you pay. Because if Jared Polus in his less push
for so called zero emission energy, which is probably Jared
Polus's single dumbest policy.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
And I agree with Jared on some things, right, I say.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Frequently that as democratic governors go, he's actually better than average.
But this is his worst policy, to the extent that
Excel is kind of forced by the government to spend
I don't know, fifty billion dollars on so called green energy.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
In their mind, okay, it's fifty billion dollars.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
But we're going to do this with the PUC guaranteeing
us that not only are we going to eventually get
back to fifty billion, but we're going to make.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Eleven percent on it every year.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
We're going to make another five and a half billion
dollars in profit every year, and our stock price is
going to go up and our dividends are going to
go up. And this is what they're here for. So
do not ever think that the utility is on your side.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
It's not that they hate you. They're not trying to
hurt you.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
But they are trying to benefit themselves as any company would.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
And the way they.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Benefit themselves is by not just going along with, but
supporting government pushes to make your electricity bills more expensive.
All right, I'm gonna get off my soapbox, Kelly. Did
I say anything there that you think is wrong?
Speaker 3 (07:13):
You think you're asking the right questions.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
And you know EXCEL as a key stakeholder obviously in
this conversation, and when you talk to EXCEL, I mean
they will say that they are data they acknowledge.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Right.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
The state's report is going to show again we.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Modeled the household impact based on a report the state's
Colorado Energy Office commissioned last year. And I don't want
to put words in their mouth, but I think EXCEL
would say, yes, there is a massive investment needed to
meet the state's goals, and common Sense wanted to empower
(07:55):
individuals to have data, to be able to talk to
the PUC, to be able to go to the commissioners,
to be able to go to EXCEL and push back
and say, hey, this is a significant amount of money
for me over ninety two hundred dollars increase. At least
(08:16):
that's the equivalent of three to four paychecks for the
average media in Colorado household. It's the cost to four
to six months of rent. We could be investing that
money otherwise and creating some wealth generation for my family,
but now this is what I'm going to have to pay.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
So I'd encourage those conversations.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
With Excel, and I would also encourage the conversation, is
this the only way the state can meet these twenty
forty and twenty fifty zero carbon emission goals? Because when
you dig into the data that the state has, they
are heavily relying on renewable energy in order to meet
(09:02):
again this massive capacity investment we're all going to need
to make in order to meet these goals, We're going
to have to rely seventy percent on renewables ross, so
that's wind and solar, and that means we rely less
on coal, we rely less on natural gas. And I
think that's the conversation that we're hoping Colorado's and policymakers
(09:27):
and everyday Colorado's can now be empowered with the data
to push back and to defend themselves and demand a
better approach to meeting goals that I think we all share.
We all want to cleaner safe for Colorado, but let's
talk about how we get there.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Okay, so a few things first. I don't share the goal.
I do share a goal of a cleaner safe for Colorado.
I don't believe that zero carbon gets us to a
cleaner safe for Colorado.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
The other thing that you mentioned, absolutely right.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Governor Polus has long been pushing for more wind and
more solar, and I think people understand this kind of intuitively,
but I want folks to think about it explicitly. The
wind isn't always blowing and the sun isn't always shining,
and that means that in order to have electricity, let's
say at night when it's not very windy, which happens
(10:19):
I would say most nights, Okay, almost every night.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
The sun doesn't shine, Okay, almost every.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Single night, almost almost every day of the year. At sundown,
the sun goes down, it's almost infallible, and most nights
the wind isn't blowing very much. So what that means
is to have electricity at night, you either need massive
batteries at your house that most people don't have utility
(10:51):
scale batteries that Excel would have to have, and this
just doesn't exist yet at the scale they would need,
and it would be so far beyond being affordable. It
might be affordable one day in the future with new
battery technology, but right now it really doesn't exist and
it's not affordable.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
And that means you need backup power.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
And backup power means some form of energy energy generation
that is always on, and that means colon natural gas
or nuclear. And we're and this is the thing that
so many people don't understand. At the level of technology
we have today, you can as far as you want
to go toward wind and solar, and I don't want
(11:32):
to go there at all, But as far as you
want to go towards wind and solar, you still have
to have the other stuff running. And also with natural
gas power plants, which are really the second best thing
after nuclear, you can't pause them like on a winny
on a windy, sunny day, when all the renewable stuff
(11:52):
is generating a lot of power, you cannot turn off
your natural gas power plant for those hours and just
turn it on the evening. For technical reasons that I
won't get involved in it has to be on.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
All the time.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
So there's just a lot of science that doesn't work
with these big plans. All right, Kelly, you talked about
somewhere in the nine thousand dollars area per household.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Is that is that an annual number? Is it an annuals.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
Cumulative aggregate, you know, by twenty forty So you know,
some people might say, oh, that's not very much, Kelly,
but I completely disagree with the high. Fourteenth highest cost
of living state is Colorado. We are fiftieth five zero
in terms of housing affordability. So it is a significant
(12:43):
aggregate expense. And I think I have that, you know,
month by month breakdown two, which I'm happy to share.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Well, it's it's that's the aggregate, okay, So it's it's
many hundreds of dollars a year, and that's for the household.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
That was for the household.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
So now just briefly talk about the additional cost to
businesses and to industrial customers of our electricity providers.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
Right, So Common Sense Institute, our economist analyzed and modeled
that the cost per commercial business will be sixty thousand
and the cost per industrial business will be one million.
To achieve the governor's goals of zero carbon emissions by
twenty forty for the electric sector.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Okay, and you know CSI has done a lot of
economic reports, many of which point to declining still not
yet terrible, but declining, a declining business competitiveness environment in Colorado.
It's becoming a more difficult place to set up a business.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
And of course, if you're.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Going to set up something that, let's say, uses a
lot of computing power or uses a lot of electricity
for manufacturing, this kind of stuff that's happening with Colorado's
electricity prices is going to not only keep new businesses
from coming in, it's going to push existing businesses out.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
So as part of your study, Kelly, you also.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Talk about the economic impact and I'm looking at the
summary economic impact in twenty thirty. By the way, twenty
thirty sounds like a big number. It's only five years away,
so what are you seeing there?
Speaker 4 (14:22):
That's right, So it's not just the impact to the household,
but there are inflationary impacts to Colorado's economy when you
drive up everyone's cost of living, and we all know
electricity prices are significant. A part of that utility price
tag that we're all paying each month. So here at
(14:43):
the Common sent Institute, we did the dynamic modeling to
show by twenty thirty, again not far away, this would
be a GDP slowdown.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
This is not a GDP plus for us. This is
a slowdown when you make it higher cost of living
for each family. So we estimate I did two point
six billion dollars GDP slowdown.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
We'd expect fewer jobs when there's less wealth creation, less
ability for affordability in the household.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
So twenty five thousand fewer jobs and a decrease in.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
Real disposable income by at least fourteen hundred dollars for
a family of four.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Unbelievable, folks. I just want you to understand this.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
To go back to what I said when we started
this conversation, expensive energy is just a massive tax on everything.
In this new Common Sense Institute report, and again if
you're just joining, we're talking with Kelly Cawfield, Executive director.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Of the Common Sense Institute.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
The new report is called Future of Electricity Costs in Colorado.
And the governor has this vision of green everything, and
he's mandated it and the state is moving in this direction.
And this study which has Kelly notes, So, first of all,
Common Sense.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Is a nonpartisan organization.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Okay, I know folks like to think that anybody who's
actually looking out for the taxpayer or the ratepayer must
be a conservative organization, but they're not. This is all
about data, an honest analysis. And furthermore, Kelly's team got
their analysis from a state generated report and then they
just did a little more digging in a little more math.
But this is state data, and this is talking about
(16:22):
potentially twenty five thousand fewer jobs five years from now.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
I'm not talking about fifty years from now. Five years
from now.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
So, Kelly, you mentioned folks could potentially go to the
PUC when they have public hearings on this.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
What else, if anything, can the public do?
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Is there any point in lobbying the legislature? Is there
any point in sending a letter to the governor or
does he not care?
Speaker 4 (16:46):
I believe talking to the legislature is a great idea.
The time is right when we've educated the majority leaders,
the minority leaders, both sides of the aisle. This is
a top tier issue for the twenty five legislative session.
How do we bring down the cost of living in Colorado?
So that we can attract more workers, more people to
(17:09):
our great state. You know, the net migration numbers are
not looking as good as they did over ten.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Years ago, and that's impacting our competitiveness. So I think
the time is right.
Speaker 4 (17:19):
I know that there's a lot of legislation pending about
reducing fees, about potentially looking at nuclear energy, which we
know that's an important conversation. I think those would all
be good starting points to bring down the cost of
living and to bring down some of the energy costs
required for the state to meet to meet its goals.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
And I would also say, you know, ask the state to.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
Have more all the above energy policy approach, you know
could be in addition to looking at nuclear energy, keep
hearing about carbon capture storage as another lower cost effective
strategy that I think is worth sharing with policymakers and
the governor's office.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Look, I think you're right.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
And again, you know, for the record, I don't give
a rats behind about carbon. I don't care about lower carbon,
I don't care about zero carbon, I don't care about
any of it. I care about cheap energy, and I
care about clean air. Carbon is not a pollutant. But
I care very much about clean air and the answer.
There are going to be a lot of parts to
(18:25):
the answer. The main part of the answer is has
to be nuclear. It absolutely has to be nuclear because nuclear.
Because I also recognize that while I don't care about carbon,
lots of people, including people with more influence than I have,
do care about it.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Nuclear is the answer.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
We just have to find a way to get nuclear
built in a way where the regulatory costs and slow
downs of getting it built those make nuclear plants so
expensive that they end up borderline on the economics. But
maybe now with Chris Wright as Secretary of Energy and
you know, this Trump team in charge, maybe the regulatory
(19:05):
environment will get better in a way that we can
achieve some of these goals that a lot of people
care about without having these disastrous economic results. I'll give
you the last twenty nine seconds because I like prime numbers.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Thanks ros. I think that the bottom line from.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
Our view is in order to meet the state's mandates
to reduce the greenhouse gas emissions, we're all being asked
to pay more. Until now, we only knew what the
utilities had to pay. We didn't know what we were
all being asked to pay. We're talking about that ninety
two hundred dollars amount.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
It's significant, and when you.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
Look at that compared to inflation, that means electricity prices
are growing at more than three times the rate of inflation,
which is already q high, and nearly thirteen times the
growth rate the historical growth rate from twenty ten to
twenty twenty. So it's time to ask why, why is
it such a big increase, and what can the state
(19:59):
do to dedicate those expenses?
Speaker 3 (20:01):
There's another way forward to reach those targets.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Yeah, that's a fabulous point. I'm just going to reemphasize
one thing that Kelly said. If if you've been.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Concerned with the rate at which your electricity prices have
been going up in recent years, what you need to
understand is that this state report that the Common Sense
Institute is now further analyzed is showing a massive spike
upwards in the rate of electricity price increase. If you
think prices have been going up fast before, you ain't
(20:30):
seen nothing yet. And we're going to need to try
to work on the politicians and the PUC to get
them to do something different. Common Sense Institute us dot
org or an easy thing to do if you Go
to my website.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
At Roskiminski dot com.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Go in today's blogcast, you'll see information about Kelly and
the link to this report. The direct link to the
report Future of Electricity Costs in Colorado. Kelly Caffield, the
executive director of the Common Sense Institute, Thanks for being here.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
You do.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
Thanks Ross
The Ross Kaminsky Show News
Popular Podcasts
Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes present: Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial
Introducing… Aubrey O’Day Diddy’s former protege, television personality, platinum selling music artist, Danity Kane alum Aubrey O’Day joins veteran journalists Amy Robach and TJ Holmes to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation. Join them throughout the trial as they discuss, debate, and dissect every detail, every aspect of the proceedings. Aubrey will offer her opinions and expertise, as only she is qualified to do given her first-hand knowledge. From her days on Making the Band, as she emerged as the breakout star, the truth of the situation would be the opposite of the glitz and glamour. Listen throughout every minute of the trial, for this exclusive coverage. Amy Robach and TJ Holmes present Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial, an iHeartRadio podcast.
Betrayal: Season 4
Karoline Borega married a man of honor – a respected Colorado Springs Police officer. She knew there would be sacrifices to accommodate her husband’s career. But she had no idea that he was using his badge to fool everyone. This season, we expose a man who swore two sacred oaths—one to his badge, one to his bride—and broke them both. We follow Karoline as she questions everything she thought she knew about her partner of over 20 years. And make sure to check out Seasons 1-3 of Betrayal, along with Betrayal Weekly Season 1.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.