Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hold on, I'm pushing some buttons here. This is the
beauty of the beauty of live radio. And before I
bring my uh my guest on, I want to play
a few seconds of audio for you from a video
that he Zach sage Fox posted recently, a video that
he took while standing in the West Bank talking with Palestinians.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Let me share a few seconds of this with you.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Are you supportive of Haamas? Yes? Yes, of course, yes,
are most Palestinians?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yeah, I'm with them.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Did you see the videos they posted of what they
did on October seventh? Everything you're okay with all?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
With everything they did?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
They killed the innocent Israelis they killed, Yes they did.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
No, yes, they did give me a.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Do you think Hamas should release the Israeli hostages? No?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
No, no, nothing's nim miss.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
There's nothing named Israel the kron mentions is that last one?
I mean, all of it's shocking, but how about that
last when there's nothing there's nothing named Israel?
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
This was you know, in a way you could.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Say that Zack Sage Fox's video was entertaining, but it
was that that does it a disservice because it was
actually very important in addition to being kind of frighteningly
entertaining in all the worst ways. Uh.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Because of some of these answers.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Zack Sage Fox has over a million followers on TikTok
all over Instagram as well. Young guy actor, comic, entrepreneur,
founder of fat Camp Films, which is a great name.
And maybe we'll talk about that. But first, Zach, thanks
for making time. I know you're a busy dude. Appreciate
your joining us on kaway ro did you I want
(01:46):
to make Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Thank you so much for you know what. That is
nice dude, I got I got my fat Jewish star. Yeah, okay,
we can put them together.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Okay, So, first of all, why'd you decide to go
to the West Bank?
Speaker 3 (02:02):
You know? So it was really interesting. So I've been
super active since October seventh, really changing a lot of
my videos from mental health and just you know, kind
of sheer comedy and virality to really focusing on Israel
and really just trying to get the facts out. I think,
like a lot of Jews, it felt like we were
up against an avalanche of misinformation, not only by you know,
(02:25):
social media users, but by the actual news itself. I mean,
they literally are not reporting the reality on the ground.
And so I, you know, spent the last several months,
you know, really just making videos trying to expose a
lot of the anti Semitism and the anti Israel bias
and just the misinformation in the streets of America, particularly
in New York City where I live. And when I
(02:47):
went to Israel to make a bunch of content, I
had the opportunity by one of my producers on the ground.
The first day I got there, he let me know
he had a connection with a Muslim producer who as
a cameraman who's Muslim, and they live in the Gray Zone,
and so that, you know, unlike my Israeli production team
when I was out there, who is not able to
go to the West Bank. I was told that this
woman and her team would be able to take me
(03:09):
because I'm an American and not an Israeli. The first
thing I went through mine was I'm Jewish. Aren't thinking
I fucking killed me? And immediately he was like, well,
it doesn't say Jewish on your passport, and you might
be able to pass for Greek or Italian or something,
and so yeah, I really, honestly It was crazy because
like a lot of my decision was like on Google
looking at like Italian people and just like looking at
(03:31):
my own pictures and being like, can I pass for Italian?
I was pretty fucking Jewish? But maybe it'll work.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
So we're we're we're on broadcast radio. So no more
swear words.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Uh, okay, we get Okay, I'm sorry about that's all right?
So did you pretend to be Italian? Is that what
you did?
Speaker 3 (03:50):
You know? It wasn't like something I went around and
I was like, hey guys, I'm a Jewish, I'm Italian.
But when you know, I was asked, and I was
asked several times, are you a Jew? In a very
hostile way, I just said I was Italian, and you know,
I'm a good actor and just tried to pass for
it and move on. It wasn't something I wanted to
make a big deal out of it.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Right, Okay.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
So you knew you were going to the West Bank,
you knew you were talking to Palestinians. You knew that
you would get answers that were pretty anti Israel, anti Semitic,
anti whatever, And I knew you would get answers like that.
When when I'm watching a video when you say you're
going in the West Bank. I kind of but but
it sounded to me like maybe even you were surprised
(04:32):
by the consistency and the intensity of the of the
answers you got.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Yeah. I mean, you know, I think it's like there
had been a few polls, not many, but one big
pole that I think showed it was almost eighty percent
or something of Palestinians supporting Moss, And so, you know,
it's one thing to read numbers, it's another thing to
hear it and see it. And I think that's why
I felt like it was really important to go and
ask those questions so people could visually see what we've
(05:02):
been seeing in stats. But I think the I think
it's one thing to hear that they're support for Hamas.
It's another thing to hear how ardently they love Tamas.
I think that threw me off to hear the passion
and really just like the blind ignorance of not only
do they like Amas, but they really think that zero
(05:22):
innocent Israelis were killed on October seventh. To hear things
like that, that was shocking because you know, as someone
who is still on the side of Israel existing. It
still breaks my heart what's happening in Gaza. When I
hear about children dying. It's not like I'm sitting they're
going They're not dying. You know. It's a heartbreaking thing,
and it makes me want to side with peace more
(05:43):
than ever to try to figure out how we get
to peace. So it was pretty shocking, I think, to
be sitting at a table with these people, or sitting
at table with one guy, being on the streets with
the rest, and to have sympathy in my hearts for
what the Palestinians are going through to some extent, even
if I don't agree with a lot of their worldview
and the hate they s view, but they still of
sympathy for the loss of life and that's happened in
(06:07):
the war. And then to hear just none of that
from the other side, like you know, Jews have never
gone through any massacre as ever, They've never gone through
any pain, never violence. I mean, they're denying the Holocaust. Then,
so at a certain point it just felt like so
one sided, you know. And then and then I'm not
sure if you saw my new video that exact same
day I came back and the second I got back
(06:29):
to Israel, I went and asked Israeli the exact same questions,
and I was kind of curious, you know, and then
maybe I'll hear similar things on the other side, and
like none of it, Like it was day and night.
It was like in Ramala in the West Bank, I
struggled to find anyone who would say a bad thing
about Hamas or to say that they had some sympathy
for October seventh. And when I went to Israel, I
(06:51):
couldn't find anybody to bash Palestinians. I mean it was
from considering what Israelis are going through and what they
know the other side believes about them. To find as
much still love and earning for peace from the Israeli
side was stark. And I think the big thing too,
it's like I did one set of interviews in Ramala,
(07:14):
which is technically like the most liberal liberals not the
right word to use, but the most moderate part of
all of quote unquote Palestine, or at least the Palestinian territory.
And you know, then to go to Tel Aviv, which
is the more moderate part, it's like it's just it
felt like the only way you could really do us
kind of you know, ab testing as somebody looking for reporting,
(07:36):
and the results were crystal clear in a way that
I was hoping for more nuance somebody who's like, not
trying to color this in any way, but I didn't
find any nuance. It doesn't mean there's not I'm sure
there are Palestinians who don't like comings, and I'm sure
there are Israelis who you know, would say worse things
about Palestinians. But you have to look at the averages,
and on average, I found overwhelming support for Hamas in
(08:00):
Palestine and just overwhelming indoctrination. And when you go to
the Israeli side, you can find overwhelming just sympathy and
a desire for peace. So you know, you have to
deal with the averages and the averages or we're black
and white.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
We're talking with Zack Sage Fox. The videos that we're
discussing are linked to and embedded on my blog today.
If you go to Rosskamenski dot com, you can see
everything we're talking about, including the video that Zach just
described about the conversations he had in Israel. You know,
one of the things this might sound a little bit
sexist or something, but I find it particularly shocking when
(08:41):
it's Palestinian women basically saying in like, essentially every Jew
should die is basically what they're saying, especially that one
lady in the blue dress who's like, I support everything
Hamas did. And I don't know, for some reason, all
of it's jarring, but for some reason it's even more
jarring for me when.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
It comes from from women. Did you have that reaction
or no?
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Yeah, one second, I'm having that audio all on one second.
I'm not switching. Yeah. I think one of the things
that was definitely shocking for me was specifically what you
just said, which was hearing it come from women, and
particularly what I believe her educated women. I mean, the
woman you're talking about how to backpack, I'm pretty sure
she was, you know, coming from school or something. Yeah,
(09:27):
And it really goes to show you the indoctrination they've
been taught, because you know in Ramala that that woman
has the ability to not cover her hair. Very few
women in Ramala don't cover their hair. But like the
PLO is not going to like lock you up for that,
Mamas would lock her up for that. And I brought
(09:47):
that up to her and there was just a pure
level of like no, they wouldn't you know there And
then I'm like, well, would you want them to be
in charge? And then she says, you know, of course
I want them. They'll they'll have elections, We'll get to vote,
and I'm just like, they haven't had elections in twenty years.
And you literally see that, like it was one of
the best part of doing We zoom in on her.
She doesn't say anything for about ten seconds. You see
(10:07):
her brain breaking, and I think that's really important to
show because at a certain point there it's just pure indoctrination.
There's not actual common sensor or facts. And it goes
to my point, which is like I didn't leave there
being like I hate these people. I left there being
like I hate that they've been indoctrinated because their own
(10:29):
lives are suffering for it. You know, like if they
were taught that peace is a good thing rather than
you know, a god's curse to their people, then they
would be living completely different lives and they're you know,
anger they have, just as they've been taught to hate
(10:51):
Jewish people, not really as Rael, specifically Jewish people. And
you're sitting there on a piece of land, you know,
when you're in Ramala, Ramala is super built up. It's
nothing like the news doesn't talk about that. Like Ramaala
is extremely built up. It looked nicer than a lot
of parts of Israel. So you're sitting there and you're like,
this land is beautiful. It all looks the same. It's
all buildings in the desert, and you know the fact
(11:14):
that it looks just like Israel. You're like, this, there
could be peace tomorrow. This is the same place when
people are born, we're all a blank slate. And so
it all comes down to the education you're taught. And
so clearly what's happening in Palestine is an indoctrination to
the level of a country like a North Korea. You know,
when you find out North Koreans believe Kim Jong un
(11:36):
can read their minds, you don't go, oh, I hate
these people for believing that. You hate that they've been
born into a society that brainwashed them. And so I
think my biggest takeaway coming out of that experience was
I'm still for a two state solution. And I know
that's controversial with some Jews, because some Jews aren't anymore
after what happened after October seventh, but I have to
(11:58):
be hopeful for a two state solution. I can't think
of another solution. But I think my takeaway is that
when you see politicians everything be like we have to
get to a two state solution tomorrow. It can't happen tomorrow.
Like the biggest thing that needs to happen first is
that you have an entire society that has just been
completely brainwashed to believe the most evil, heinous lies imaginable.
(12:20):
And we've seen societies become unindoctrinated. Look at Germany, I mean,
it is a perfect example of a nation that at
once believed the worst things humanity could believe, and now
you look at them and they're a thriving democracy that
has reversely been the best state probably or the best
country in all of Europe for Jewish people since October seven,
(12:43):
And so unindoctrination can happen. There are so many peaceful
Muslim countries in the Middle East that are focused on
prosperity now and they're not focused on anti Semitism anymore,
when some of them were just several years ago. There
are bastions of rights being granted throughout those not perfect democracies.
But you know, you look at a country like Saudi Arabia,
(13:05):
you know they are becoming a much more progressive nation
in line with Western values. Although they're not a democracy.
There are a country that has swords on their flags.
At one point, they were a very different country not
too long ago. And so unindoctrination can happen. But we
can't just sit here and create a palacity and state
with the mindset that has plagued the nation right now,
(13:28):
or I guess the pseudo nation right now. And so
I think that's one of the big things. I'm not
seeing politicians talking about it, especially on the left, and
I'm certainly not seeing journalists talking about that, and I
think it's probably the most important piece of this puzzle
to get too peace right.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
So I look, I'm I'm on the fence as to
whether I support a two state solution anymore. If I
were to support a two state solution anymore, it would
have to be as a prerequisite that the government of
the new Palestinian nation expressly recognizes Israel's right to exist
(14:08):
as a Jewish state, and without that, forgetting, I'm not
even interested in the conversation.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Got about two minutes left.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
I want to hear a little bit about your last
several minutes in Ramala.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Like that got a little harry, didn't it.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Yeah, that was the craziest part of the whole thing.
And it's interesting it goes back to sort of the
women in this territory and how they see women in
this territory. But yeah, towards the end, and it didn't
take that long, by the way, like you know, it
was like forty five minutes on the street, and all
of a sudden, a mussliman comes up. He sees me
interviewing a woman. He starts screaming in Arabic, and my
(14:44):
producer translator tells me that he's very upset where, you know,
asking a woman about her opinions on the matter, and
that it's a modest for her to be giving her opinions,
and that we shouldn't be asking women about this about anything,
like they're not the spokespeople. Women should not be the
spokespeople for Palestine essentially, And obviously I just wanted to
be professional and keep doing my job and just keep interviewing.
(15:06):
And it just got to a point where he started
calling in more Muslim men and they told us that
we had to delete our footage, and at first I
pushed back. You know, I'm like, you know, it's funny
because my first instinct was, I'm so used to shooting
in America. My first instinct was to almost be like, well,
you know, we're in public property. When you're in public,
you're allowed to ask anybody anything. And then immediately I'm like, wait,
(15:26):
in a second, not only am I not in America's laws,
I don't even know if there are laws here. And
so it got to a point where I kept pushing back.
But the second my cameraman, who also was Muslim and
spoke Arabic, he said, these people are threatening to kill us.
This is no joke. I caved, and luckily I was.
I deleted a bunch of footage in front of them,
and I think they thought that was all of our footage,
(15:48):
and so we were able to save some of it,
and then I was able to have it people retrieve
some of it. Unfortunately I lost. That main interview with
the girl was the main one I lost, and it
was very frustrating. She didn't say anything different. So it
was the same kind of love for Hamas, but she
was extra in love with Amas, and mostly I was
just frustrated because morally it killed me to have to
(16:08):
delete that video. You know, she should have been exposed.
So it's it's unfortunate. It's unfortunate, but I think it's
a good story I left. It's not like I left Palestine,
you know, be like in a sort of non representative way.
I think I left seeing something that clearly there's a
reason journalists aren't going there because the second you start
asking people questions like they know what, they're so used
(16:29):
to this world bubble they live in that Jews have
never gone through any harm and Jews are evil and
Jews Jews, jus j Jew's. The second you start giving
them any semblance of facts. I found it to be
extremely confrontational, and you see that in the videos I
have as well. And so I think, again, what you're saying.
The last thing I'll leave it on too, is I
agree with what you're saying, Like, you know, there's something
(16:49):
about a two state solution that just seems so impractical
right now. And again, I think it all comes down
to education, and so there's just needs to be a
bigger conversation about who's going to control the education system
coming out out of that territory, because it's not there
for a baby born into that world to be brainwashed
like this. Like it's just that's the real like, and
I keep saying this, Palestine can't be freed until there's
(17:11):
freedom of thought. And right now they're taught that Jews
are the most evil thing ever and they should be killed,
and you should be killed for the overall mission to
kill Jews. And it's very and it's happening in the
most moderate parts of Palestine. I can't even imagine what's
being taught in Gaza specifically. So that's sort of my takeaway.
And yeah, guys, thank you so much for listening, and
(17:32):
you follow me at all my handle Zack Sage or
zax Sagebox on Twitter.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Zax Sagebox has over a million followers on on TikTok
and lots on Twitter and Instagram as well. And this
little adventure that he decided to embark on actually going
into the West Bank to do kind of men and
women on the street interviews. It's some crazy combination of infuriating, sad,
(18:00):
funny and important, really important, And I encourage you to
follow Zach wherever he.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Is on social media.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
You can get started on my blog at Roscomminsky dot
com that has a link to a whole bunch of
this stuff we were talking about today. Thank you for
doing what you did. Thank you for that took some
real courage. I think you know that, and I hope
that'll you know, you have a younger audience than I have,
and I hope that what you did caused a lot
of younger Americans who made themselves have been brainwashed less
(18:32):
than Palestinians have but a little bit against Israel, to
open their eyes a little bit.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
And I applaud you for that. Thank you, Zach, thank
you so much.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Yeah, thanks for having me Ross and yet to the
audience listening to If you guys see this video and
you feel it's important, please share it with your community
because it's honestly the only video journalism that's really come
out of Palestine from an outside source in the last
several months. There's just been very little of it, so
I think it's really important, and it just aligns with
(19:01):
all the polls, so it's really just a supplement to
the data that's come out of that territory.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Zax Stage Fox, thanks so much, appreciate it.
Hold on, I'm pushing some buttons here. This is the
beauty of the beauty of live radio. And before I
bring my uh my guest on, I want to play
a few seconds of audio for you from a video
that he Zach sage Fox posted recently, a video that
he took while standing in the West Bank talking with Palestinians.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Let me share a few seconds of this with you.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Are you supportive of Haamas? Yes? Yes, of course, yes,
are most Palestinians?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yeah, I'm with them.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Did you see the videos they posted of what they
did on October seventh? Everything you're okay with all?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
With everything they did?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
They killed the innocent Israelis they killed, Yes they did.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
No, yes, they did give me a.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Do you think Hamas should release the Israeli hostages? No?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
No, no, nothing's nim miss.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
There's nothing named Israel the kron mentions is that last one?
I mean, all of it's shocking, but how about that
last when there's nothing there's nothing named Israel?
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
This was you know, in a way you could.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Say that Zack Sage Fox's video was entertaining, but it
was that that does it a disservice because it was
actually very important in addition to being kind of frighteningly
entertaining in all the worst ways. Uh.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Because of some of these answers.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Zack Sage Fox has over a million followers on TikTok
all over Instagram as well. Young guy actor, comic, entrepreneur,
founder of fat Camp Films, which is a great name.
And maybe we'll talk about that. But first, Zach, thanks
for making time. I know you're a busy dude. Appreciate
your joining us on kaway ro did you I want
(01:46):
to make Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Thank you so much for you know what. That is
nice dude, I got I got my fat Jewish star. Yeah, okay,
we can put them together.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Okay, So, first of all, why'd you decide to go
to the West Bank?
Speaker 3 (02:02):
You know? So it was really interesting. So I've been
super active since October seventh, really changing a lot of
my videos from mental health and just you know, kind
of sheer comedy and virality to really focusing on Israel
and really just trying to get the facts out. I think,
like a lot of Jews, it felt like we were
up against an avalanche of misinformation, not only by you know,
(02:25):
social media users, but by the actual news itself. I mean,
they literally are not reporting the reality on the ground.
And so I, you know, spent the last several months,
you know, really just making videos trying to expose a
lot of the anti Semitism and the anti Israel bias
and just the misinformation in the streets of America, particularly
in New York City where I live. And when I
(02:47):
went to Israel to make a bunch of content, I
had the opportunity by one of my producers on the ground.
The first day I got there, he let me know
he had a connection with a Muslim producer who as
a cameraman who's Muslim, and they live in the Gray Zone,
and so that, you know, unlike my Israeli production team
when I was out there, who is not able to
go to the West Bank. I was told that this
woman and her team would be able to take me
(03:09):
because I'm an American and not an Israeli. The first
thing I went through mine was I'm Jewish. Aren't thinking
I fucking killed me? And immediately he was like, well,
it doesn't say Jewish on your passport, and you might
be able to pass for Greek or Italian or something,
and so yeah, I really, honestly It was crazy because
like a lot of my decision was like on Google
looking at like Italian people and just like looking at
(03:31):
my own pictures and being like, can I pass for Italian?
I was pretty fucking Jewish? But maybe it'll work.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
So we're we're we're on broadcast radio. So no more
swear words.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Uh, okay, we get Okay, I'm sorry about that's all right?
So did you pretend to be Italian? Is that what
you did?
Speaker 3 (03:50):
You know? It wasn't like something I went around and
I was like, hey guys, I'm a Jewish, I'm Italian.
But when you know, I was asked, and I was
asked several times, are you a Jew? In a very
hostile way, I just said I was Italian, and you know,
I'm a good actor and just tried to pass for
it and move on. It wasn't something I wanted to
make a big deal out of it.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Right, Okay.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
So you knew you were going to the West Bank,
you knew you were talking to Palestinians. You knew that
you would get answers that were pretty anti Israel, anti Semitic,
anti whatever, And I knew you would get answers like that.
When when I'm watching a video when you say you're
going in the West Bank. I kind of but but
it sounded to me like maybe even you were surprised
(04:32):
by the consistency and the intensity of the of the
answers you got.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Yeah. I mean, you know, I think it's like there
had been a few polls, not many, but one big
pole that I think showed it was almost eighty percent
or something of Palestinians supporting Moss, And so, you know,
it's one thing to read numbers, it's another thing to
hear it and see it. And I think that's why
I felt like it was really important to go and
ask those questions so people could visually see what we've
(05:02):
been seeing in stats. But I think the I think
it's one thing to hear that they're support for Hamas.
It's another thing to hear how ardently they love Tamas.
I think that threw me off to hear the passion
and really just like the blind ignorance of not only
do they like Amas, but they really think that zero
(05:22):
innocent Israelis were killed on October seventh. To hear things
like that, that was shocking because you know, as someone
who is still on the side of Israel existing. It
still breaks my heart what's happening in Gaza. When I
hear about children dying. It's not like I'm sitting they're
going They're not dying. You know. It's a heartbreaking thing,
and it makes me want to side with peace more
(05:43):
than ever to try to figure out how we get
to peace. So it was pretty shocking, I think, to
be sitting at a table with these people, or sitting
at table with one guy, being on the streets with
the rest, and to have sympathy in my hearts for
what the Palestinians are going through to some extent, even
if I don't agree with a lot of their worldview
and the hate they s view, but they still of
sympathy for the loss of life and that's happened in
(06:07):
the war. And then to hear just none of that
from the other side, like you know, Jews have never
gone through any massacre as ever, They've never gone through
any pain, never violence. I mean, they're denying the Holocaust. Then,
so at a certain point it just felt like so
one sided, you know. And then and then I'm not
sure if you saw my new video that exact same
day I came back and the second I got back
(06:29):
to Israel, I went and asked Israeli the exact same questions,
and I was kind of curious, you know, and then
maybe I'll hear similar things on the other side, and
like none of it, Like it was day and night.
It was like in Ramala in the West Bank, I
struggled to find anyone who would say a bad thing
about Hamas or to say that they had some sympathy
for October seventh. And when I went to Israel, I
(06:51):
couldn't find anybody to bash Palestinians. I mean it was
from considering what Israelis are going through and what they
know the other side believes about them. To find as
much still love and earning for peace from the Israeli
side was stark. And I think the big thing too,
it's like I did one set of interviews in Ramala,
(07:14):
which is technically like the most liberal liberals not the
right word to use, but the most moderate part of
all of quote unquote Palestine, or at least the Palestinian territory.
And you know, then to go to Tel Aviv, which
is the more moderate part, it's like it's just it
felt like the only way you could really do us
kind of you know, ab testing as somebody looking for reporting,
(07:36):
and the results were crystal clear in a way that
I was hoping for more nuance somebody who's like, not
trying to color this in any way, but I didn't
find any nuance. It doesn't mean there's not I'm sure
there are Palestinians who don't like comings, and I'm sure
there are Israelis who you know, would say worse things
about Palestinians. But you have to look at the averages,
and on average, I found overwhelming support for Hamas in
(08:00):
Palestine and just overwhelming indoctrination. And when you go to
the Israeli side, you can find overwhelming just sympathy and
a desire for peace. So you know, you have to
deal with the averages and the averages or we're black
and white.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
We're talking with Zack Sage Fox. The videos that we're
discussing are linked to and embedded on my blog today.
If you go to Rosskamenski dot com, you can see
everything we're talking about, including the video that Zach just
described about the conversations he had in Israel. You know,
one of the things this might sound a little bit
sexist or something, but I find it particularly shocking when
(08:41):
it's Palestinian women basically saying in like, essentially every Jew
should die is basically what they're saying, especially that one
lady in the blue dress who's like, I support everything
Hamas did. And I don't know, for some reason, all
of it's jarring, but for some reason it's even more
jarring for me when.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
It comes from from women. Did you have that reaction
or no?
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Yeah, one second, I'm having that audio all on one second.
I'm not switching. Yeah. I think one of the things
that was definitely shocking for me was specifically what you
just said, which was hearing it come from women, and
particularly what I believe her educated women. I mean, the
woman you're talking about how to backpack, I'm pretty sure
she was, you know, coming from school or something. Yeah,
(09:27):
And it really goes to show you the indoctrination they've
been taught, because you know in Ramala that that woman
has the ability to not cover her hair. Very few
women in Ramala don't cover their hair. But like the
PLO is not going to like lock you up for that,
Mamas would lock her up for that. And I brought
(09:47):
that up to her and there was just a pure
level of like no, they wouldn't you know there And
then I'm like, well, would you want them to be
in charge? And then she says, you know, of course
I want them. They'll they'll have elections, We'll get to vote,
and I'm just like, they haven't had elections in twenty years.
And you literally see that, like it was one of
the best part of doing We zoom in on her.
She doesn't say anything for about ten seconds. You see
(10:07):
her brain breaking, and I think that's really important to
show because at a certain point there it's just pure indoctrination.
There's not actual common sensor or facts. And it goes
to my point, which is like I didn't leave there
being like I hate these people. I left there being
like I hate that they've been indoctrinated because their own
(10:29):
lives are suffering for it. You know, like if they
were taught that peace is a good thing rather than
you know, a god's curse to their people, then they
would be living completely different lives and they're you know,
anger they have, just as they've been taught to hate
(10:51):
Jewish people, not really as Rael, specifically Jewish people. And
you're sitting there on a piece of land, you know,
when you're in Ramala, Ramala is super built up. It's
nothing like the news doesn't talk about that. Like Ramaala
is extremely built up. It looked nicer than a lot
of parts of Israel. So you're sitting there and you're like,
this land is beautiful. It all looks the same. It's
all buildings in the desert, and you know the fact
(11:14):
that it looks just like Israel. You're like, this, there
could be peace tomorrow. This is the same place when
people are born, we're all a blank slate. And so
it all comes down to the education you're taught. And
so clearly what's happening in Palestine is an indoctrination to
the level of a country like a North Korea. You know,
when you find out North Koreans believe Kim Jong un
(11:36):
can read their minds, you don't go, oh, I hate
these people for believing that. You hate that they've been
born into a society that brainwashed them. And so I
think my biggest takeaway coming out of that experience was
I'm still for a two state solution. And I know
that's controversial with some Jews, because some Jews aren't anymore
after what happened after October seventh, but I have to
(11:58):
be hopeful for a two state solution. I can't think
of another solution. But I think my takeaway is that
when you see politicians everything be like we have to
get to a two state solution tomorrow. It can't happen tomorrow.
Like the biggest thing that needs to happen first is
that you have an entire society that has just been
completely brainwashed to believe the most evil, heinous lies imaginable.
(12:20):
And we've seen societies become unindoctrinated. Look at Germany, I mean,
it is a perfect example of a nation that at
once believed the worst things humanity could believe, and now
you look at them and they're a thriving democracy that
has reversely been the best state probably or the best
country in all of Europe for Jewish people since October seven,
(12:43):
And so unindoctrination can happen. There are so many peaceful
Muslim countries in the Middle East that are focused on
prosperity now and they're not focused on anti Semitism anymore,
when some of them were just several years ago. There
are bastions of rights being granted throughout those not perfect democracies.
But you know, you look at a country like Saudi Arabia,
(13:05):
you know they are becoming a much more progressive nation
in line with Western values. Although they're not a democracy.
There are a country that has swords on their flags.
At one point, they were a very different country not
too long ago. And so unindoctrination can happen. But we
can't just sit here and create a palacity and state
with the mindset that has plagued the nation right now,
(13:28):
or I guess the pseudo nation right now. And so
I think that's one of the big things. I'm not
seeing politicians talking about it, especially on the left, and
I'm certainly not seeing journalists talking about that, and I
think it's probably the most important piece of this puzzle
to get too peace right.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
So I look, I'm I'm on the fence as to
whether I support a two state solution anymore. If I
were to support a two state solution anymore, it would
have to be as a prerequisite that the government of
the new Palestinian nation expressly recognizes Israel's right to exist
(14:08):
as a Jewish state, and without that, forgetting, I'm not
even interested in the conversation.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Got about two minutes left.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
I want to hear a little bit about your last
several minutes in Ramala.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Like that got a little harry, didn't it.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Yeah, that was the craziest part of the whole thing.
And it's interesting it goes back to sort of the
women in this territory and how they see women in
this territory. But yeah, towards the end, and it didn't
take that long, by the way, like you know, it
was like forty five minutes on the street, and all
of a sudden, a mussliman comes up. He sees me
interviewing a woman. He starts screaming in Arabic, and my
(14:44):
producer translator tells me that he's very upset where, you know,
asking a woman about her opinions on the matter, and
that it's a modest for her to be giving her opinions,
and that we shouldn't be asking women about this about anything,
like they're not the spokespeople. Women should not be the
spokespeople for Palestine essentially, And obviously I just wanted to
be professional and keep doing my job and just keep interviewing.
(15:06):
And it just got to a point where he started
calling in more Muslim men and they told us that
we had to delete our footage, and at first I
pushed back. You know, I'm like, you know, it's funny
because my first instinct was, I'm so used to shooting
in America. My first instinct was to almost be like, well,
you know, we're in public property. When you're in public,
you're allowed to ask anybody anything. And then immediately I'm like, wait,
(15:26):
in a second, not only am I not in America's laws,
I don't even know if there are laws here. And
so it got to a point where I kept pushing back.
But the second my cameraman, who also was Muslim and
spoke Arabic, he said, these people are threatening to kill us.
This is no joke. I caved, and luckily I was.
I deleted a bunch of footage in front of them,
and I think they thought that was all of our footage,
(15:48):
and so we were able to save some of it,
and then I was able to have it people retrieve
some of it. Unfortunately I lost. That main interview with
the girl was the main one I lost, and it
was very frustrating. She didn't say anything different. So it
was the same kind of love for Hamas, but she
was extra in love with Amas, and mostly I was
just frustrated because morally it killed me to have to
(16:08):
delete that video. You know, she should have been exposed.
So it's it's unfortunate. It's unfortunate, but I think it's
a good story I left. It's not like I left Palestine,
you know, be like in a sort of non representative way.
I think I left seeing something that clearly there's a
reason journalists aren't going there because the second you start
asking people questions like they know what, they're so used
(16:29):
to this world bubble they live in that Jews have
never gone through any harm and Jews are evil and
Jews Jews, jus j Jew's. The second you start giving
them any semblance of facts. I found it to be
extremely confrontational, and you see that in the videos I
have as well. And so I think, again, what you're saying.
The last thing I'll leave it on too, is I
agree with what you're saying, Like, you know, there's something
(16:49):
about a two state solution that just seems so impractical
right now. And again, I think it all comes down
to education, and so there's just needs to be a
bigger conversation about who's going to control the education system
coming out out of that territory, because it's not there
for a baby born into that world to be brainwashed
like this. Like it's just that's the real like, and
I keep saying this, Palestine can't be freed until there's
(17:11):
freedom of thought. And right now they're taught that Jews
are the most evil thing ever and they should be killed,
and you should be killed for the overall mission to
kill Jews. And it's very and it's happening in the
most moderate parts of Palestine. I can't even imagine what's
being taught in Gaza specifically. So that's sort of my takeaway.
And yeah, guys, thank you so much for listening, and
(17:32):
you follow me at all my handle Zack Sage or
zax Sagebox on Twitter.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Zax Sagebox has over a million followers on on TikTok
and lots on Twitter and Instagram as well. And this
little adventure that he decided to embark on actually going
into the West Bank to do kind of men and
women on the street interviews. It's some crazy combination of infuriating, sad,
(18:00):
funny and important, really important, And I encourage you to
follow Zach wherever he.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Is on social media.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
You can get started on my blog at Roscomminsky dot
com that has a link to a whole bunch of
this stuff we were talking about today. Thank you for
doing what you did. Thank you for that took some
real courage. I think you know that, and I hope
that'll you know, you have a younger audience than I have,
and I hope that what you did caused a lot
of younger Americans who made themselves have been brainwashed less
(18:32):
than Palestinians have but a little bit against Israel, to
open their eyes a little bit.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
And I applaud you for that. Thank you, Zach, thank
you so much.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Yeah, thanks for having me Ross and yet to the
audience listening to If you guys see this video and
you feel it's important, please share it with your community
because it's honestly the only video journalism that's really come
out of Palestine from an outside source in the last
several months. There's just been very little of it, so
I think it's really important, and it just aligns with
(19:01):
all the polls, so it's really just a supplement to
the data that's come out of that territory.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Zax Stage Fox, thanks so much, appreciate it.
The Ross Kaminsky Show News
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