February 18, 2025 • 11 mins
Aviation Expert Jay Ratliff discusses what may have happened on approach in Toronto causing the plane to flip
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Legacy Retirement Group dot com phone line our
aviation expert J Ratlift. You can track him down at
J Ratlift dot com. And Jay I kind of missed
the days where we would just talk about passengers behaving badly,
or a cat that gets you on the in the
luggage hold and it survives a two thousand mile flight
or something like that when it comes to air travel.
(00:21):
But unfortunately, we have another accident in Toronto, this time
that Delta flight flipping over onto its top doing a
complete one to eighty as it was attempting to land
at Pearson International. How did that happen?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Well, I mean that's the question. That's what the investigation
is going to try to answer. Is as the Canadian
version of the NTSB begins the investigation to find out
exactly what took place. We know there was weather, so
that was involved. We knew there were crosswinds, but again
we're talking about aircraft and crews that are trained to
(00:56):
operate airplanes in those conditions. You're in Toronto. They've got
five active runways. I don't know how we're being used
at that time. They do a very good job of
keeping the runways free and clear. The breaking conditions based
on the previous flights that came through was very very good.
So they were doing a good job of keeping the
runway clear. And then you got this video that comes
(01:19):
in showing this aircraft coming down. And one of the
things like it really I think probably jumped out at
me most was watching the aircraft come down and as
it landed, you always land on the main gear first,
just think like the space shell comes in, you know,
landing with the nose up, and when it landed, the
right main landing gear seemed to drop. Now I don't
(01:42):
know if the aircraft was blown kind of off the
runway where the right gear came down, not on the
runway and it caused the plane to tip, or if
that main right landing gear collapsed, because what happened was
the aircraft dropped suddenly to the right, the right wing
caught on something, it gets ripped off, which then spins
the aircraft around where it's now going sideways down the runway,
(02:07):
rolls over on its top and then comes to a stop,
you know the way that you know, we always complain
about airline seats being uncomfortable, yes, but they're designed to
withstand sixteen g's of horse, so everybody was able to
stay in their seats, seat belts on, and secure through
all of this. And the description that the passengers gave
(02:28):
is we were all up upside down, hanging down like bats.
So you come to arrest and now you get out
of your seat, and obviously then there's a dash to
get off the airplane. And one of the things that
I found heartening was the fact that listening to the
people on board the airplane, they said that, yeah, there
was that initial shock, they were dazed, but then everybody
(02:50):
was taking care of everybody else, helping them get off
the airplane. It wasn't this every person for themselves. Let
me push people out of the way to get off
of an airplane, perhaps before it explodes, because you don't
know what's going to happen. Yeah, they were actually taking
care of each other, and I thought, wow. And the
flight attendants did an incredible job because remember the airplanes
on its top. The initial response or thought is open
(03:14):
the door, open, the door open, get those evacuation doors open.
But remember they're all armed, they have the emergency slides engaged.
So flight attendants had to have the presence of mind
of saying, look, disengage those before we open these doors,
because we're upside down. We engage these slides, they're going
to drop and they're gonna impede the ability for us
(03:36):
to evacuate this airplane quickly. So again flight attendants once
again proving just what a great job they do. And
of course then we had this special kind of stupid,
the people that had to stop and collect their bags
before they got off of an airplane. It's on its
top and on fire. Yeah, let's do that.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
I mean, it's just yeah, you can, you can buy
a new laptop, but we can't do to replace people.
And thankful all eighty individuals on board walked off that plane.
There were some minor injuries. I think about eighteen folks
were injured there. But it to me, you know, backing
up to the actual crash, when you think about an airplane,
it's very hard for it to flip over onto its
(04:15):
top because of the wings, right, I mean, so to
your point, if one side maybe dipped down, the other
was elevated, and maybe at that particular exact time, you
had a cross wind, a big gust to win. They
were in the area forty mile an hour winds reported
and that's just the timing of that it went down.
Maybe that wing that was elevated catches a gust and
(04:37):
then it flips, and then there you have what we have.
So and then, as you point out, the other option
could be, you know, the landing gear. There could be
a mechanical issue on that right side that caused that
right side of the plane to dip down.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Or it could have been the crew landed hard, or
it could have been that the winds changed at the
last minute that forced the airplane down and gave the
threw something they weren't expecting in a critical moment of flight,
right before they were to set down. So there's a
lot of possibilities here, and that's why a lot of times,
it's the final report that we probably will see in
(05:14):
eight or nine months won't list a single cause, and
a lot of times that the series events that led
to the crash. This happened, which caused that, which then
led to this that had that. So what we'll have
to see if if it was pilot air if one
of the pilots had some sort of medical episode, if
there was a part of the aircraft that failed. We
(05:35):
don't know. I do know that I'm a big fan
of the Bombardier aircraft. These are the regional jets that
we kind of came to light with calm Air when
they started the fifty passenger regional jets kind of took
over the world and everybody else played catch up, and
those regional jets just kept getting bigger. The CRJA seven
hundreds and then now the nine hundreds. They can seed
(05:56):
up to close to one hundred people. And that particular
aircraft that morning actually began in Cleveland and worked its
way around and then was involved from Minneapolis coming back
to Toronto. So it was that same aircraft that started
in a while and it ended up in the day
in that crash. So the aircraft very well constructed because
(06:17):
again it protected the people within the fuselage, which was
great to see. And you know, we've had three aviation
accidents commercially speaking with the DC crash involving a helicopter
at the wrong altitude, we'll see what happened, the Alaska
plane crash killing ten. Don't know what happened there, and
then this three totally different scenarios. So a lot of
(06:38):
people are saying, Jay, I'm actually afraid now to go
to the airport, And of course my position on that is,
don't be because we're talking about three different scenarios entirely,
and it's not a single breakdown where we're seeing the
same thing happen over and over and over again. And
obviously there's concern and I always say, I'm glad that
we can learn from an accident without a loss of life,
(07:02):
but look, I recognize that these these men and women
are going to be going through a life of PTSD. Yeah.
In my career, I have had to deal with individuals
that were plane crash survivors or the only people that
survived a plane crash. So a lot of times we're
all guilty of saying, well, look, everybody walked away. Yeah,
(07:22):
but the scars they're going to carry with them, many
of them for the rest of their life. It's going
to require a lot of help from a mental health
standpoint because of what they go through. And having seen
that up close. Fortunately, thank god, never been involved in
a crash, but dealing with those that had, it becomes
very clear what these men and women go through.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Yeah I could. I don't know that if I was
hanging upside down in an airplane that came to a
skidding halt with a wing missing from my seat belt.
I don't know that I would be really running to
the airport for my next flight anytime soon. But you
know that's just me. Jay Ratlift, our aviation expert. You
can track them down at jay ratlift dot com. So
all this Jay with that. Now the story of the
(08:02):
Trump administration giving hundreds of FAA employees the pink slip.
So it's is it bad timing, bad optics?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Here?
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Do we need an overhaul with the FAA and some
upgrades there? What's the story?
Speaker 2 (08:17):
See all of the above, It is bad optics. Now
these are more temporary, predationary, probationary employees, no air traffic controllers.
But yeah, the optics at a time you've got the
air traffic control network that's so understaffed in so many
areas coming in and doing that. Yeah, it looks bad.
But look, the FAA is a point now where we
talk about how the technology is, I mean antiquated. Is
(08:41):
an insult to the word antiquated. That's how old it is.
I mean it's just so old and it's got to
be replaced, and it's got to be blown up and restarted.
And if Donald Trump's going to bring in the space
X team to try to assist, and I'll tell if
they attack it like a Manhattan project, getting it done
in three years or less, that would be great to
see because we've got to lead. If we do have
(09:04):
a shortage of bear traffic controllers, and we do, it's
incumbent upon us to make sure they have the best
state of the art technology that allows them to do
their job as easily as possible, especially if they're doing
the job of two or three people, and the idea
that they're doing the job of two or three people
on equipment that is so far outdated it's beyond laughable.
(09:25):
I welcome having the technology minds that would be associated
with you know, Musk or whoever that we can bring
in to go after this, because look, every other administration,
from Biden to Trump to Bush, Obama, all these back,
have done nothing to seriously upgrade the FAA's technology. They've
(09:47):
talked about it, they've planned on it, they've had several
committee meetings on it, but they've done nothing, well, very little.
So the idea that President Trump is going to make
this a priority is one of the other great boxes.
I'm glad he's checking now going in and firing a
lot of people. Initially, yeah, I you know, again, a
(10:07):
lot of these are support level positions, and I hear
comments about what some of these people said they did.
I don't know if that's the case or not, but
the FA needs a great deal of work, and I'm
glad it's getting the attention that it needs. Obviously, we're
going to have to wave through the politics. You know,
how many plane crashes under Biden, Look how many plane
crashes under Trump. I mean, all of these ridiculous, asinine
(10:28):
comments that we can just kind of push off to
the side. But the bottom line is the the aviation
world is an integral part of the economy of this
country and it deserves every bit of attention and resources
we can give it.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Could not agree with you more. Jay Ratlift. You can
find of it at jay ratlift dot com. Before I
let you go, some hub delays this morning. We've got
I think the snow pretty much done, at least on
a large scale here in the Midwest. But where are
we seeing any problems this morning.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Across across the country. We're just seeing minor morning the
icing delays. So once we get the done, we're good.
To go. So if you're going to the airport, relax.
It's more dangerous getting to the airport than getting on
a plane. But look, I understand anybody that's anxious. And look,
if you don't want to fly now, get over the airline.
Many times they can give you a waiver to fly
at a slightly later date and wave the change fee.
(11:17):
They suck at customer service, but sometimes they do display
a little bit of a heart. So if you want
to push back your travel, do it. And if they
don't reach out to me and let me know, we'll
go after them together.
On the Legacy Retirement Group dot com phone line our
aviation expert J Ratlift. You can track him down at
J Ratlift dot com. And Jay I kind of missed
the days where we would just talk about passengers behaving badly,
or a cat that gets you on the in the
luggage hold and it survives a two thousand mile flight
or something like that when it comes to air travel.
(00:21):
But unfortunately, we have another accident in Toronto, this time
that Delta flight flipping over onto its top doing a
complete one to eighty as it was attempting to land
at Pearson International. How did that happen?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Well, I mean that's the question. That's what the investigation
is going to try to answer. Is as the Canadian
version of the NTSB begins the investigation to find out
exactly what took place. We know there was weather, so
that was involved. We knew there were crosswinds, but again
we're talking about aircraft and crews that are trained to
(00:56):
operate airplanes in those conditions. You're in Toronto. They've got
five active runways. I don't know how we're being used
at that time. They do a very good job of
keeping the runways free and clear. The breaking conditions based
on the previous flights that came through was very very good.
So they were doing a good job of keeping the
runway clear. And then you got this video that comes
(01:19):
in showing this aircraft coming down. And one of the
things like it really I think probably jumped out at
me most was watching the aircraft come down and as
it landed, you always land on the main gear first,
just think like the space shell comes in, you know,
landing with the nose up, and when it landed, the
right main landing gear seemed to drop. Now I don't
(01:42):
know if the aircraft was blown kind of off the
runway where the right gear came down, not on the
runway and it caused the plane to tip, or if
that main right landing gear collapsed, because what happened was
the aircraft dropped suddenly to the right, the right wing
caught on something, it gets ripped off, which then spins
the aircraft around where it's now going sideways down the runway,
(02:07):
rolls over on its top and then comes to a stop,
you know the way that you know, we always complain
about airline seats being uncomfortable, yes, but they're designed to
withstand sixteen g's of horse, so everybody was able to
stay in their seats, seat belts on, and secure through
all of this. And the description that the passengers gave
(02:28):
is we were all up upside down, hanging down like bats.
So you come to arrest and now you get out
of your seat, and obviously then there's a dash to
get off the airplane. And one of the things that
I found heartening was the fact that listening to the
people on board the airplane, they said that, yeah, there
was that initial shock, they were dazed, but then everybody
(02:50):
was taking care of everybody else, helping them get off
the airplane. It wasn't this every person for themselves. Let
me push people out of the way to get off
of an airplane, perhaps before it explodes, because you don't
know what's going to happen. Yeah, they were actually taking
care of each other, and I thought, wow. And the
flight attendants did an incredible job because remember the airplanes
on its top. The initial response or thought is open
(03:14):
the door, open, the door open, get those evacuation doors open.
But remember they're all armed, they have the emergency slides engaged.
So flight attendants had to have the presence of mind
of saying, look, disengage those before we open these doors,
because we're upside down. We engage these slides, they're going
to drop and they're gonna impede the ability for us
(03:36):
to evacuate this airplane quickly. So again flight attendants once
again proving just what a great job they do. And
of course then we had this special kind of stupid,
the people that had to stop and collect their bags
before they got off of an airplane. It's on its
top and on fire. Yeah, let's do that.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
I mean, it's just yeah, you can, you can buy
a new laptop, but we can't do to replace people.
And thankful all eighty individuals on board walked off that plane.
There were some minor injuries. I think about eighteen folks
were injured there. But it to me, you know, backing
up to the actual crash, when you think about an airplane,
it's very hard for it to flip over onto its
(04:15):
top because of the wings, right, I mean, so to
your point, if one side maybe dipped down, the other
was elevated, and maybe at that particular exact time, you
had a cross wind, a big gust to win. They
were in the area forty mile an hour winds reported
and that's just the timing of that it went down.
Maybe that wing that was elevated catches a gust and
(04:37):
then it flips, and then there you have what we have.
So and then, as you point out, the other option
could be, you know, the landing gear. There could be
a mechanical issue on that right side that caused that
right side of the plane to dip down.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Or it could have been the crew landed hard, or
it could have been that the winds changed at the
last minute that forced the airplane down and gave the
threw something they weren't expecting in a critical moment of flight,
right before they were to set down. So there's a
lot of possibilities here, and that's why a lot of times,
it's the final report that we probably will see in
(05:14):
eight or nine months won't list a single cause, and
a lot of times that the series events that led
to the crash. This happened, which caused that, which then
led to this that had that. So what we'll have
to see if if it was pilot air if one
of the pilots had some sort of medical episode, if
there was a part of the aircraft that failed. We
(05:35):
don't know. I do know that I'm a big fan
of the Bombardier aircraft. These are the regional jets that
we kind of came to light with calm Air when
they started the fifty passenger regional jets kind of took
over the world and everybody else played catch up, and
those regional jets just kept getting bigger. The CRJA seven
hundreds and then now the nine hundreds. They can seed
(05:56):
up to close to one hundred people. And that particular
aircraft that morning actually began in Cleveland and worked its
way around and then was involved from Minneapolis coming back
to Toronto. So it was that same aircraft that started
in a while and it ended up in the day
in that crash. So the aircraft very well constructed because
(06:17):
again it protected the people within the fuselage, which was
great to see. And you know, we've had three aviation
accidents commercially speaking with the DC crash involving a helicopter
at the wrong altitude, we'll see what happened, the Alaska
plane crash killing ten. Don't know what happened there, and
then this three totally different scenarios. So a lot of
(06:38):
people are saying, Jay, I'm actually afraid now to go
to the airport, And of course my position on that is,
don't be because we're talking about three different scenarios entirely,
and it's not a single breakdown where we're seeing the
same thing happen over and over and over again. And
obviously there's concern and I always say, I'm glad that
we can learn from an accident without a loss of life,
(07:02):
but look, I recognize that these these men and women
are going to be going through a life of PTSD. Yeah.
In my career, I have had to deal with individuals
that were plane crash survivors or the only people that
survived a plane crash. So a lot of times we're
all guilty of saying, well, look, everybody walked away. Yeah,
(07:22):
but the scars they're going to carry with them, many
of them for the rest of their life. It's going
to require a lot of help from a mental health
standpoint because of what they go through. And having seen
that up close. Fortunately, thank god, never been involved in
a crash, but dealing with those that had, it becomes
very clear what these men and women go through.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Yeah I could. I don't know that if I was
hanging upside down in an airplane that came to a
skidding halt with a wing missing from my seat belt.
I don't know that I would be really running to
the airport for my next flight anytime soon. But you
know that's just me. Jay Ratlift, our aviation expert. You
can track them down at jay ratlift dot com. So
all this Jay with that. Now the story of the
(08:02):
Trump administration giving hundreds of FAA employees the pink slip.
So it's is it bad timing, bad optics?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Here?
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Do we need an overhaul with the FAA and some
upgrades there? What's the story?
Speaker 2 (08:17):
See all of the above, It is bad optics. Now
these are more temporary, predationary, probationary employees, no air traffic controllers.
But yeah, the optics at a time you've got the
air traffic control network that's so understaffed in so many
areas coming in and doing that. Yeah, it looks bad.
But look, the FAA is a point now where we
talk about how the technology is, I mean antiquated. Is
(08:41):
an insult to the word antiquated. That's how old it is.
I mean it's just so old and it's got to
be replaced, and it's got to be blown up and restarted.
And if Donald Trump's going to bring in the space
X team to try to assist, and I'll tell if
they attack it like a Manhattan project, getting it done
in three years or less, that would be great to
see because we've got to lead. If we do have
(09:04):
a shortage of bear traffic controllers, and we do, it's
incumbent upon us to make sure they have the best
state of the art technology that allows them to do
their job as easily as possible, especially if they're doing
the job of two or three people, and the idea
that they're doing the job of two or three people
on equipment that is so far outdated it's beyond laughable.
(09:25):
I welcome having the technology minds that would be associated
with you know, Musk or whoever that we can bring
in to go after this, because look, every other administration,
from Biden to Trump to Bush, Obama, all these back,
have done nothing to seriously upgrade the FAA's technology. They've
(09:47):
talked about it, they've planned on it, they've had several
committee meetings on it, but they've done nothing, well, very little.
So the idea that President Trump is going to make
this a priority is one of the other great boxes.
I'm glad he's checking now going in and firing a
lot of people. Initially, yeah, I you know, again, a
(10:07):
lot of these are support level positions, and I hear
comments about what some of these people said they did.
I don't know if that's the case or not, but
the FA needs a great deal of work, and I'm
glad it's getting the attention that it needs. Obviously, we're
going to have to wave through the politics. You know,
how many plane crashes under Biden, Look how many plane
crashes under Trump. I mean, all of these ridiculous, asinine
(10:28):
comments that we can just kind of push off to
the side. But the bottom line is the the aviation
world is an integral part of the economy of this
country and it deserves every bit of attention and resources
we can give it.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Could not agree with you more. Jay Ratlift. You can
find of it at jay ratlift dot com. Before I
let you go, some hub delays this morning. We've got
I think the snow pretty much done, at least on
a large scale here in the Midwest. But where are
we seeing any problems this morning.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Across across the country. We're just seeing minor morning the
icing delays. So once we get the done, we're good.
To go. So if you're going to the airport, relax.
It's more dangerous getting to the airport than getting on
a plane. But look, I understand anybody that's anxious. And look,
if you don't want to fly now, get over the airline.
Many times they can give you a waiver to fly
at a slightly later date and wave the change fee.
(11:17):
They suck at customer service, but sometimes they do display
a little bit of a heart. So if you want
to push back your travel, do it. And if they
don't reach out to me and let me know, we'll
go after them together.
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