Honoring Fallen Deputy Daniel Sherrer

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I do not know what is considered a viral video,
but this week when we posted a video on our
Facebook page of an officer in the middle of one
hundred mile processional for Farland Morrow County Deputy Daniel Shecher,
it hit over sixty thousand views, A glimmer of hope
in a world of tragedy, more than one hundred and

(00:20):
fifty comments, mostly in support of our fallen hero. But yes,
there were also terrible comments as well. But I learned
a long time ago to not argue with those fools,
because all you do is become a fool yourself. Don't
even give evil a response. Let their comments die in silence,
let them slinker back to their parents' basement where they belong.

(00:42):
This week was truly hard to comprehend. The assaults on
law enforcement in central.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
Ohio were horrible.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
The cowardness of us, some slob on a front porch,
apparently prohibited by a law to own a firearm, tragically
taking the life of a young deputy for no reason
other than that deputy represented good in law and order.
Evil tried to get the best of us that night,
but it will not win. Evil does not know what
it's in for. Good has only begun to fight. Martin

(01:13):
Luther King Junior once said, we shall overcome because the
arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends
towards justice. As a law enforcement community planned to late
to rest this heroic deputy, tragedy again struck in our city.
Two Mifflin Township officers, while on routine patrol, made a
traffic stop, a stop we are all taught is never routine.

(01:36):
While the driver was cooperative, the passenger. The passenger, Devonte Dixon,
aged twenty one, ran from the vehicle. Both township officers pursued,
and within seconds, DeVante fell to the ground, pulling his
illegally owned firearm from his waistband and shooting indiscriminately at them.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
Both.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
Only with divine intervention did they both survive the attack
from this monster. DeVante ran off, and by the bravery
of fellow officers, I'm happy to report he was captured
last night without further harm to deputies or to the public.
If the actions of DeVante do not infuriate you, then
you're part of the problem. But when I'm about to

(02:16):
tell you should have everyone that listens furious. DeVante is
a thug, pretty much has always been a thug, and
in twenty twenty one, this punk was caught in charge
with having a loaded concealed firearm, a felony of the
fourth degree that come and please, Judge Kimberly J. Brown
allowed to be pled to an m one CCW with

(02:38):
twenty nine days served in jail and as a condition
of bond, no possession of firearms. In March of twenty
twenty two, Davante was added again when he picked up
a felony obstructing official business charge where an officer was
reportedly injured. Obstructing official business is oftentimes a misdemeanor of
the second degree, similar to a citation from a traffic stop,

(03:01):
but to be charged with the felony provision, his conduct
had to create a risk of physical harm according to
the statute. This is where the story starts to get
really bad. According to the judgment entry right there online
for anyone to see, and I quote, the assistant prosecuting
attorney from Franklin County and the defendants' attorney jointly recommended

(03:24):
a sentence of community control probation, and Judge Kimberley J.
Brown stamped her approval. DeVante was far from done though
in that same month he caught a dev assault and
aggravated minacing charge with of course bond conditions of no
further acts of violence or possession of firearms. But it

(03:45):
was not until twenty twenty three that he really got going.
In Junor that year, DeVante was charged with an F
one aggravated burglary with the firearm. Guys, there is no
higher criminal degree in our system, and a felony of
the first degree it's at the top of the chain,
reserved for the worst crimes. He was also charged with

(04:08):
an F one kidnapping while using a firearm and with
domestic violence. The next month, he also picked up a
charge for aggravated menacing, two counts for having a firearm
as a felon, and and a felony five count for
being in possession of an unregistered automatic machine gun, a
crime in and of itself that can bring a federal

(04:30):
sentence of ten years in prison and a quarter of
a million dollars in fines. The Franklin County grand jury
easily indicted DeVante on all charges. The gun specifications alone
could land him twelve years in prison, but luck was
on his side. He chose Franklin County, Ohio to commit
his raniteor I really can't decide if the county prosecutor

(04:55):
or the elected judge are more complicit in what happened next.
On March eighteenth, twenty twenty four, after the grand jury
indicted DeVante in all these charges, the judgment after trial
says this mister Dixon was found guilty of aggravated robbery
with gunspecs, a felony of the first degree, Guilty of

(05:16):
felony five, possessing an illegal and potentially devastating machine gun
in our society, guilty of one count of felony three
having a firearm as a felon. And as for the
rest of the charges, the four other charges that he
was indicted on, including an F one felony, kidnapping, and
domestic violence, but they were all dropped as part of

(05:38):
a plea deal by the Franklin County Prosecutor's office under
the direction of Gary Tayak. But you still have not
heard the rest of the story. On April fifth, twenty
twenty four, during the sentencing hearing, and I read verbatim
as could you on their own website, the court found
the defendant guilty of the charges to which the police

(06:01):
were entered. The Assistant prosecuting Attorney for Franklin County and
the defense attorney did jointly recommend a sentence. The Franklin
County prosecutor, the one that we elect to protect society
by keeping evil off the street, the ones who should
protect law enforcements, brothers and sisters who continually arrest and

(06:24):
encounter these thugs. Our elected Franklin County prosecutor recommended, along
with the defense attorney in the court room of complicit
Judge Kimberly Brown, the sentence of thirty six months of
fricking community control after six months in a halfway house.

(06:46):
The pathetic Judge Brown noted that these crimes have a
presumption of a prison term, but man, it's not mandatory.
What the hell are we doing? How Kimberly J. Brown
can continue to hold her seat whom I kudn't probably
get re elected by the absent minded idiots that have
infiltrated Columbus. It's unbelievable. When you see her on the

(07:08):
ballot next time, remember if it's Brown, it must go down.
Stop hitting the damn like button on the video you
see posted and think that is where your obligation to
support law enforcement ends. If you want to live in
a safe community, then you need to be as vocal
as hell and demand these protectors, these prosecutors that should

(07:28):
be held responsible for this nonsense, do not let them
off the hook when the media goes quiet on the
story next week, because they have certainly already let a
future killer walk amongst us, only to strike when we
least expect it. I've had just about enough with the
court system seeing these attacks this week alone with police

(07:50):
our own community. It has to stop. And our mayor
his solution, his solution get this, probably give more money
to broken tail lights in Lendon. His website today still reads,
we can't arrest our way out of this. Mister Mayor,
I call bs, arrest and prosecute these monsters, Build bigger prisons,
hire more officers, take them off the streets. Maybe you

(08:13):
need to listen to the scanner one night and just
see how bad this city has become under your watch.
It makes me so mad that I had to spend
time on this nonsense when we should be honoring our
fallen hero today. Deputy Daniel Shear this week stood and
faced his God, which must always come to pass he

(08:34):
hopes his shoes were shining just as brightly as his brass.
Step forward. Now, Deputy, how shall I deal with you?
Have you've always turned the other cheek to my church?
Have you been true? The deputy squared his shoulders and said, no, Lord,
I guess I ain't. Because those of us who carry
badges can't always be a saint. I've had to work

(08:57):
most Sundays, and at times my talk was rough, and
sometimes I've been violent because the streets are awfully tough.
But I never took a penny that wasn't mine to keep.
And though I worked a lot of overtime when the
bills just got too steep, and I never passed to
cry for help. Though at times I shook with fear,
and sometimes, God, forgive me, I've wept unmanly tears. I

(09:21):
know I don't deserve a place among the people here.
They never wanted me around except to calm their fears.
If you've placed, if you have a place for me here, Lord,
it needn't be so grand. I never expected or had
too much.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
But if you.

Speaker 1 (09:35):
Don't, I understand. There was silence all around the throne,
where the saints often troud as a deputy waited quietly
for the judgment of his God. Step forward, now, Deputy Share,
you've borne your burden. Well come walk a beat on
heaven streets. You've done your time and it's god forsaking hell.

(10:00):
But afternoon, welcome not talk that we're broadcasting live from
the studios of LPD Firearms Range in Training Facility that's
located at Triple nine Bethel Road. I'm your host, Eric Guys.
I Uh, I tell you that that this week has
been so infuriating. Rough stuff, rough, unbelievable. I mean, you

(10:21):
should have us all mad. It should you know, there's
it's just what's going on with law enforcement and law
and order.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
That's the thing.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
That's the thing that that you know, you're always going
to have bad people, but to continually what appears to
allow them to be on our streets. How do we
let that happen?

Speaker 3 (10:38):
That's outrageous. People have forgotten their ohs that are in
public office.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
UH.

Speaker 3 (10:45):
This should never have Larry Henderson down in Hamilton County
outside the listening area run over for no reason other
than he had a uniform on.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (10:56):
Graffiti down there in Cincinnati is one down, many more
to go.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
I don't know how. I don't know how.

Speaker 1 (11:03):
You turning around. We all have to stand up. We
all have to stand up and fight. That's the only thing,
because we can't let we can't let it continue to
go this route. We can't.

Speaker 2 (11:13):
Guys.

Speaker 1 (11:13):
We are the owners of LUPD Firearms Range and Training
Facility and are active in law enforcement. But for one
hour on Saturdays, we put together a group of firearm
experts to discuss new products in the market, training tips,
and oftentimes political topics surrounding the Second Amendment. Our commitment, though,
has always been to bring you the facts about our
industry and help listeners and customers with safe, responsible ownership
of firearms. Guys, today we are fortunate to have two

(11:35):
good friends joined my other good friends right here at
the table. We have OHIO Training Dave Yost and CPD
Police Lieutenant Brian Steele, FOP President as well. Guys, thank
you so much for being here in person today. We're
gonna have a discussion about the state of law and
order and about qualified immunity here in the second half

(11:55):
of the show, so you're not gonna want to miss that.
Jac's going to have some news coming up shortly. We
also like to think our Sponsor's US Law Shield, Jackson, Egress, Windows,
Black Wings, Shooting Center, River's Edge, Cutlery, and of course
LAPD Training Facility, all who make the show possible each week.
JC always good to see.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
You, always good to be seen.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
Yeah, to be seen than viewed.

Speaker 2 (12:15):
That's what we say.

Speaker 1 (12:16):
There you go, there, you go to my far right.
I have ed tough week for you, guys.

Speaker 4 (12:20):
Ed.

Speaker 2 (12:20):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
I mean, most people probably know you are a deputy
in Morril County. I can't only imagine what that community
is going through.

Speaker 5 (12:29):
It's very somber, it's tough, and I can only say,
God bless you, Daniel. We'll be shoot.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
Yep.

Speaker 5 (12:47):
And I've talked to him the Friday before and I
had nicknamed him Superman and.

Speaker 2 (12:54):
He is a super bad yep. In the words of
Grady jud.

Speaker 5 (13:03):
If you pull a gun on us, we will shoot you,
and he did, and we won't stop until you are stopped.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
I don't know what.

Speaker 5 (13:17):
This world is coming to, and lately here with all
of the shootings at the police, I don't know if
it's they're feeling boldened now because of what happened in
Borrow County. But I warn all of you the police
will not back down. We will stand together and we

(13:39):
will fight evil and put you behind bars or put
you in the ground.

Speaker 2 (13:49):
Yep. That's about all I can say right now. Ye.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
To my right, Brian, I mean you've been on the
front lines of this this week. I mean, how are
the officers at Mifflin and Marysville.

Speaker 4 (14:01):
Ye, So I can tell you, mit, when they're holding
up these guys obviously emotionally. They got a lot of
stuff going on at home. They got to run their homes,
they got to go back to work. But they don't
stop right they go home, they take care of the family,
they put their uniforms back on, and they're right back
answering nose calls for service.

Speaker 2 (14:18):
So I applaud every one of them. Yep.

Speaker 1 (14:21):
To my left is Ohiottorney General Daveyos Dave. So good
to see you today. I know we had a prior
time you're going to call in today to talk about
qualified community this week and just been tragic, and so
having you here in person is great.

Speaker 2 (14:32):
So I really really appreciate you. So good to be here.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
Yeah, yep, yep, guys, let's go to a break here.
We're going to on the other side, talk about get
it into a little bit of news and then talk
about some of the things that's going on in the.

Speaker 2 (14:47):
Law enforcement community.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
We're all talking at broadcasting live in the studios of
LAPD Farms Range. Way back after the break long distance
dedication for Devonte Dixon coming into us today. Welcome back

(15:13):
to on Target. I'm your host. Derek joined today in
the LAPD studios. Got to sitting around the table with
a bunch of friends. I have big ed to my right, JC,
to my left, my good friend Brian Steal from CPD
and of course our Attorney General Dave Yo. So thank
you so much for coming in today. Yep, guys, uh, JC,

(15:34):
you want to hit a couple of news.

Speaker 6 (15:35):
Here before we uh yeah, for this was good news
and I think, uh, you know, Dave here just pointed
out that's a thumbs up. So the ATF has announced
a replacement for Biden's zero tolerance when during even the
Biden said the gun industry and manufacturers are our enemy.
And when he was in office, he did everything that

(15:56):
he could and they took the ATF and they weaponized
it like the dark Democrats did a lot of things
and went after if you just minor things clerical era
and a piece of paper, they would revoke your license
to be able to sell firearms. It was just amazing.
So anyway, the good news is on Friday the twenty
thurs that's the Friday before Memorial Day, the ATF announced
a new policy for handling oversight of more than the

(16:19):
more than one hundred and thirty thousand FFLs out there,
the fire arms fire arms licensees. It listens the rules
as to when they should be revoked. Before that, even
if an agent who found a mistake said that but
these are good guys that was just fired, it went
right up and they could revoke the license and override that.
But now the bureau patter fact has even encouraged people

(16:42):
had their had their licenses revoked get to get back
into business that we you know, we are not going
to be doing this anymore. So the policy basically act.
The acting director, Daniel Driscoll said in a statement that
they're going to have new guidance for our investigators and
using their discretion to tell the difference between an honest
mistake and then one that could be construed as certainly

(17:05):
as a threat to public safety. Selling the firearm to
someone that they may know should not be getting it.
So law abidy dealers deserve a system, as they said,
that treats them fairly and not like before. So this
is this, this is really a positive for for the
gun dealers out there. So a new series of practices
require serious and wilful violations before the administra administrative action

(17:28):
that could result in a revocation. So there are no
more automatic revocations. Minor clerical errors will just be addressed
now with warnings and educational efforts.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (17:38):
They realize that the gun dealers are the friend of
the of the police. I mean, we do not know
one wants to sell a gun to someone that they
think should not be owning that gun. Uh So anyway,
that's what's going to be happening there. And uh uh,
they're the agents are going to have to show that
there was intent and compliance history and public safety risks

(18:00):
before they would consider it.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
And JC, we've talked about this before. These aren't just
anecdotal things that there's never an actual case out there.
One of the most egregious ones that we had happened
right here in Ohio during COVID. The governor came down
and said Hey, if you have a driver's license that expires,
the B and v's aren't open, we're going to extend
that expiration date by six months or whatever the case was,
because they simply weren't open. So if we were stopping

(18:24):
somebody for a traffic stop and they handed you an
expired license, it fell within that and you accepted it.
Right well, in the firearms world, when you're doing a
background check and you have idol that we must collect
and write down on the form, some of those driver's
licenses were expired, I mean, and we were bound to
accept those right well. Under this zero tolerance Biden policy.

(18:48):
When those stores would get audited, they would send them
to revocation hearings because they were accepting an expired form
of identification. Because they're statement was, hey, it's federal, we're
not we don't know what you guys in Ohio are doing,
but you accepted an expired license, and so we're going
to attempt to revoke your license because of that. It

(19:10):
was that sort of thing that we saw and heard
for stories right here in Ohio.

Speaker 3 (19:15):
Eric elections matter, and make no mistake about it, this
insanity stop because of Donald J.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
Trump.

Speaker 1 (19:22):
Absolutely almost almost overnight.

Speaker 6 (19:26):
Yep, interesting stories. I couldn't find anywhere else, but I
ran into this from the New Hampshire Public Radio. Six
hour is based in New Hampshire. It's one of the
largest employers in New Hampshire. And I think we all
know about We've talked week after week about lawsuits. Well,
back in April, Bobby Cox, who was an executive with

(19:48):
sig Sauer, came to the New Hampshire State House in
the night. They said the room was almost empty when
they said Destiny said his company. Now, he's one of
the biggest manufacturer in the country. It's one of the
major employers New Hampshire. He said, we need protection against
all of these lawsuits that are being filed against their pistol,
the P three twenty And basically he just said, look,

(20:13):
we need your support. We're going to be able to
stay in business. So what did they do. They drafted
the law, they went through, they got it passed and
the day after it passed Governor Kelly Ayott so a Wat.
Governor Kelly A. Watt signed it the day after it
was cleared. And what it does is it prevents prohibits

(20:34):
lawsuits against Sigsaur that focus on their lack of external
safety cases already filed. Matter of fact, there's already eighty
cases of people in New Hampshire who filed. But in
the future, if you have a lawsuit against the company
on the trigger issue, it's not going to pass muster.
And so they showed that most of the stuff was

(20:56):
coming from out of state and it's going to basically
shut down this company, which was one of the biggest employers.
So bottom line is, I thought that was really interesting.
The other thing I found was interesting about this that
came out was since this rollout it was rolled the
P three twenties rolled out in twenty seventeen, and it's
one of the country's most popular pistols with more than
three point six million. I was way off on that figure,

(21:19):
more than three point six million P three twenties. It's
now carried by every branch of the US military, and
it's been a leading choice for local and state law
enforcement agencies. However, we've also talked about a lot of
folks are saying, Nope, you can't carry this. We saw
how one went off in a police station. But anyway,
bottom line is, as they have now seeking future protections

(21:40):
for this Wow granted.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
Guys that jumped to the bottom of hour news. When
we come back on the other side, we're gonna have
a little bit of a panel discussion about the state
of law enforcement and specifically qualified immunity. We're all talking
a broadcasting live from the studios of LAPD Firearms and Range.
Well way back right after the news, welcome back to
on talking to me here. Derek joined today. We have
a great group of people sitting around the table here.

(22:03):
We're so fortunate to have John Creole sitting to my left.
We have big ed to the right. We also have
a Lieutenant Brian Steele here. Always good to see you, right,
you know, and I'm so grateful that you're here because
there's rumors that you got multi throw down and stuff
like that. But you chose to be here, right you
kind of eagerly chose to be here. Actually I'm kind
of suspected. But with you right now by the way

(22:25):
and the courts, our good friend Attorney General for Ohio, Davio,
it's great to see you.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
Good to be you, yep, especially this week. This has
been a tough week for law enforcement.

Speaker 1 (22:35):
It has it has and you know, the rest of
the time on the show. We want to take a
moment because we have a lot of people here from
a lot of different disciplines and from the outside looking in.
If I'm Joe citizen on the streets and you look
at some of the things that happen with this DeVante
Dixon and how we got there, it's disturbing. Are we
what am I missing? Is this normal procedure? Is this

(22:58):
how things just work? Or is there something that has
gone on, especially in our county, that has got us
to where we're at.

Speaker 3 (23:07):
The woke virus has infected the prosecutor's office and the judges. Now,
I'm hesitant to make a generalization because there's some good
people involved in the system, but there's too many that
simply have their minds are so open their brains are
leaking out. This fellow that you were just referencing Devonte

(23:31):
with that record, I do not understand how you could
possibly agree as a prosecutor that we're going to do
community control. I mean, the guy's got a long sheet,
it's violent, he's shown continued disregard for the law, and
for a prosecutor to join the defense lawyer and say, yeah,
we think community control is just fine, that's absurd.

Speaker 1 (23:54):
Isn't the process, And Brian, you can jump in on
this too, the process of plea bargaining. I mean, part
of that is guaranteeing probably a conviction for some charges.
But isn't that also a statement from the prosecution that, hey,
I don't know if we can get convictions, so I'm
willing to plead. But if it's a solid case, is
there less likelihood typically for the prosecutor to plea on something.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
Well, there ought to be.

Speaker 3 (24:18):
Obviously, you can have a case where a witness goes
south or you lose some evidence because of a suppression hearing,
and then you've got to do a deal because AFLOF
is better. But man, somebody like this with this kind
of record, I would hope that that's going to be
plead to the indictment or at least plead to the

(24:39):
top counts, or we're going to have a trial. And
maybe we'll find out some more as time goes on
that this is more complicated than it looks. But given
how long this record was, and you read it at
the cold open to the show, I think even if
you've got a tough case, you put that guy on trial.

Speaker 4 (25:00):
Yeah, the prosecutor statement talked about things they look at. Right,
you have to have this discretion with prosecutors, which FLP
totally grease.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
You should have.

Speaker 4 (25:08):
Discretion, they said, other than just looking at the crime,
they look at his age, what crimes he previously committed,
whether or not he's from a povished area. I don't
know what this is even about, why this was even
a factor in there. We're putting more concern on the
violent suspect and whether how he's going to thrive in
prison or not, rather than the victims that he is terrorizing,

(25:30):
because there was no way this individual is all of
a sudden going to go down this straight path in life.
He's too far gone. Incarceration is the only thing we
could do for someone like that.

Speaker 1 (25:39):
The thing, too, that's really disturbing is if I'm Joe
Thug and I'm out there and I'm doing I'm stealing
from the local Walmart and I'm you know, heist in
the car occasionally, I'm not worried in Franklin County, if
if this guy's guilty of f ones all day long
and he's getting probation, I ain't worry. I'm going about

(26:01):
my business like businesses always. Why would you even be
concerned if you know this is what's getting handled down
for the worst of the worst. How do you How
is there any disincentive to go out there and commit
crime in Franklin County.

Speaker 3 (26:15):
Brian, I'll tell you that. And I hear this from
cops all the time. They picked somebody up and the
suspects laughing at them for the back of the cruisers
says I'll be out before you even finish your paperwork.

Speaker 2 (26:28):
Yeah, it covers all the time.

Speaker 1 (26:30):
It didn't always used to be that way.

Speaker 4 (26:33):
Now when Ron O'Brien here, I can tell you didn't happen.
It was a complete failure the last four years under Tayak.
You know, I could only hope that that Misfavors is
going to do a better job. I am meeting with
her in a couple of weeks. We're going to talk
about a litany of things. The funny thing are almost
ironic is when we have these violent offenders, we want
to rehabilitate them and put them on probation. But our

(26:54):
four officers charged with murder. I don't hear anybody talking about, hey,
let's put them on probation. Maybe maybe we don't try
them for murder. It's almost like the revolt. It's a
completely reversal when it's an officer up there.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
Absolutely absolutely the thing too with this case that really
hits home for us here being in the firearman's business.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
Guys.

Speaker 1 (27:16):
You know, if I showed up and I called this week,
I called one of my ATF buddies, really good guy,
and I said, look, I'm just four warning you. I
got my hands on an unregistered for auto machine gun.
I said, I'm going to every store and I'm shooting
that thing. And when you guys eventually catch up to
me and arrest me, if I get anything but probation,
I'm going to go screaming the whole way. Dave, why

(27:37):
aren't we taking the prosecution of these glock switches making
a gun fully automatic? Why aren't those going all day
long federally and putting these guys behind bar.

Speaker 3 (27:48):
You'd have to ask the FED, the Feds, but we
don't have a United States attorney right now thanks to.

Speaker 2 (27:57):
Durban Dick Durbin is holding.

Speaker 3 (27:59):
Them up and requiring tit for tat. He's trying to
do a payback to because he was unhappy with something.

Speaker 2 (28:05):
JD.

Speaker 3 (28:05):
Vance did so, he's requiring roll call votes for all
the United States Attorneys a confirmation. We have ninety three
of them. There's two in Ohio, one for Cincinnati Southern District,
one for the Northern District. Both of them are acting
right now. They are not the boss. They noticed the

(28:26):
boss is going to come in, and so they're keeping
things going just on the basically, but they're not going
to take an initiative because that's the role of the
actually United States attorney. I'm not going to throw rocks
at the prosecutors there. They're doing what they should do.
But Donald Trump, Donald Trump's picks for these United States

(28:47):
Attorneys job jobs need to be confirmed and they need
to get on the job to start worry for exactly
the thing you're talking about.

Speaker 1 (28:55):
If I'm out there and I'm just a citizen of
this community and I see time and time and time
again these thugs with fully automatic weapons that I know
if we were caught with it's ten years, two hundred
and fifty thousand dollars fine, And there's no sorry. I
don't care what you've done before. If you're an officer
or whatever.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
I kiss your ff ar goodbye.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
Oh yeah, absolutely but these guys can probation for that.
I mean, do people not realize how deadly that is
in these hands? I don't understand. It's it goes beyond reason.
I mean, I don't know. I don't know what it
takes to get people to wake up and vote people
like this Kimberly brown out. I mean it comes, I

(29:39):
guarantee you when it comes back up on the vallets,
she'll be back in.

Speaker 3 (29:43):
Well, I'm a little more worried about this qualified immunity
movement because you think things are bad now. If that
thing passes, not only is it going to wreck government.
This isn't just about cops. It's about teachers. It's about
the guy that drives the garbage truck. But you're gonna
call nine one one, get ready for hours long responses because.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
Cops aren't expectated.

Speaker 3 (30:06):
What qualified immunity does is it says, okay, if something
goes wrong, you can sue city hall, but you can't
sue the cop himself as long as he was acting
reasonably and doing his job. And that makes sense because
if you don't get that protection, who's going to go
to work and get shot at for you know, whatever

(30:28):
we pay cops.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
You got to do a better job, Brian, Who's going
to do that? Who's going to do that job?

Speaker 3 (30:36):
If your house is on the line, your savings are
on the line, your entire livelihood could be taken by
some plaintiff's lawyer because of a split second decision you
had to make while you were on the job working
for the public. It is the word. It will destroy
law enforcement, it will destroy civil government.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
Yes, it will.

Speaker 4 (30:56):
Yeah, I think of I think of my partner's Steve
Stein over the Fire Union sixty seven we talked to,
had a conversation his members say a good scenario, one
of his members out to dinner and someone's choking. That
firefighter Metica has a requirement to take action. He heimlicks
someone and they break their rib. He's in good faith
doing what he's required to do, trying to save him,
and now he gets personally sued and goes bankrupt. A

(31:18):
social worker, a social worker talking to someone who's who's
having a mental health challenge and maybe that person jumps
out the window. Well, that social worker can now be
sued because you know what, you didn't do a good
enough job talking to that person into getting help.

Speaker 1 (31:30):
It makes no sense in today's environment day, like you
were saying, you can still sue the city, right right,
So there's no need let the cities take the burden
of that. There's no need to be able to sue
the individual officers. So how do you respond to when
they say we need to hold our officers accountable.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
I think officers are held accountable exactly.

Speaker 3 (31:52):
They're held well, sometimes they're even held accountable in criminal court.
We've got a few officers who have been charged for
things that they did on the job that you know,
may have well been within their duty.

Speaker 2 (32:05):
Well that's what the court process is for.

Speaker 3 (32:07):
But even when they were fully justified from a criminal standpoint,
the city gets sued, the officer faces discipline internally. Brian
can talk more about this, but frequently, even if they
don't lose their job, their career is sidetracked and they're
going to be working, you know, trafficking force them or something.

Speaker 2 (32:30):
For the rest of their career. We banish them to
o sp.

Speaker 4 (32:35):
Just a little joke from my trooper friends out there,
but Attorney Jones absolutly right there. There's so many layers
accountability and law enforcement, and we'll just use We'll just
use an officer involve shooting. You have a Firearms Review Board,
and you have a BCI third party independent investigation come
in a grand jury process. You have Internal Affairs is
going to review it. We have an IEG's offices that's
going to review it. There's so many layers that are

(32:57):
going to review that. If misconducts there, you find that,
you're not going to hide it. But as we know,
we always talk about ninety nine percent of the times
our guys.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
Get it right.

Speaker 4 (33:05):
If it's a mistake of the heart, you do not
belong in this job. If you made a split second
decision and a mistake of the mind, there's other ways
other than putting you to prison for murder.

Speaker 1 (33:14):
Right, And I mean, and you know, don't get me wrong.
If there's an officer who does something criminally, you know,
which we've seen over time, you hear it occasionally, we
don't want him in our within our ranks.

Speaker 4 (33:24):
Yeah, take them, take them out. And you've never seen
me protect them. I'm the first one to tell them, hey,
here's the door, sign this resonation paper, give me your
FOP card to put in the shredder. You don't belong here.

Speaker 1 (33:34):
Yeah, absolutely, But it's just.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
But without this qualified immunity.

Speaker 6 (33:38):
I mean, what officer would you even want to get in?
You know, hey, I'll just wait till it's over. I'll
take the report, you know what I mean, why would
you put yourself out there? Why would you do anything
to man handle anybody who now is going to say,
oh he abused you know. So it's like, okay, I'm
gonna sit back and watch. People don't realize. I mean,
it would go to crap instantly.

Speaker 4 (33:58):
I mean, as a taxpayer, you should be thinking, well,
you know what's gonna happen. The the cities are gonna
have to take out some kind of insurance, some kind
of an insurance policy for the officers, and they're going
to pass that bill right to you as a taxpayer.
So this affects every single highland if you can find
the insurance. Yeah, that's right. And we've seen before a
Colorado where where there were towns they were not giving

(34:19):
the insurance too, because Colorado went to this in a
state and was a disaster, mass exodus from Colorado's.

Speaker 5 (34:25):
See that all around.

Speaker 2 (34:26):
Yeah, you will if they would get rid of this.

Speaker 6 (34:27):
I mean, who would ever want this job?

Speaker 1 (34:29):
Do the young officers? Brian know the potential impact of this.

Speaker 4 (34:33):
I mean, our young officers are outstanding. When they come
out there, they're they're their puppies. They just want to
catch bad guys. They want to serve their community. It
usually takes probably about six months, I think, for to
set in number one, the.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
Realities of this job.

Speaker 4 (34:47):
And then two we're trying to explain to them more
and more to get them involved. They they all have
to just be vocal. They have to call their representatives,
they got to let everybody know. And and as the
Attorney General said, you got to vote. We get what
we vote for. We have to vote.

Speaker 5 (35:01):
Well, I can tell you listening to what's going on
in Franklin County with the court systems, if you want
to see how justice is going to work, watch what
happens in Marrow County, because the prosecutors and the judges
are not are not going to let this guy go
with any kind of probation at all. Yeah, and it'll

(35:22):
it'll it'll be front forward, everybody will see it, and
that'll be the way it should be done everywhere.

Speaker 4 (35:27):
And you have a lower crime rate than some of
these cities in America, the bigger cities. Look why exactly
everybody knows why they're it's hard on crime there, and
then you don't have the same issues.

Speaker 1 (35:37):
Even even just one north of Delaware County. I mean,
you knew firsthand about that. I mean it's it's a
different environment when you have the prosecutors and the judges
and every thing on board walking instep.

Speaker 3 (35:51):
I'll always remember what I was prosecuting attorney Columbus is
in Delaware County. We had an identity theft ring that
was work in the retail up there, and they finally
got caught, and several deputies and I and one of
my assistant prosecutors walked in the room.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
They saw the patches and said, what are you.

Speaker 3 (36:12):
Guys doing here Franklin County right now you're in Columbus,
you're in Delaware County and felonies you're going up to Delaware.
Uh And their their face fell because they realized they
were in deep stuff.

Speaker 6 (36:24):
And they know all this stuff. They know, they know exactly.
That's why cry will continue in Columbus, just because they know. Hey, yeah,
like you said, you don't don't get caught.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
Have you get caught?

Speaker 6 (36:33):
Hey, I'll be home before you.

Speaker 2 (36:34):
Finish the paperwork. That's kind of the attitude.

Speaker 5 (36:36):
It's out there who brought up this, uh getting rid
of the qualified immunity anyway, dude, do we know how.

Speaker 2 (36:41):
This is a citizen led initiative and you know, the
group that's trying to do it.

Speaker 3 (36:46):
I think that they genuinely think they're trying to do
a good thing. They they simply don't understand the facts
on the ground and that officers are held accountable, held
to a very high standard actually, and they're trying to
address what they see as an injustice. They're they're not evil,
They're just wrong.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
No, they're definitely wrong.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
So one thing that came up to and just casual
conversation with customers and talking qualified immunity, they bring up
the the the situation of an accident also gets involved
in an accent. In that case, can can you still
go after the city? I mean, can can the city
still be sued for the you know, for the actions
of that that accident.

Speaker 3 (37:29):
So there are certain certain things where there's something called
sovereign immunity.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
So it's difficult for me to give you a blanketing. Right,
you take a very simple thing, a pothole, and you
blow out your.

Speaker 3 (37:45):
Tire in your front end the city's not liable for that,
But if it's been reported and they knew about it
and didn't fix.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
It, then they are liable.

Speaker 3 (37:56):
So it gets kind of complicated when you get down into.

Speaker 2 (37:59):
The actual fact.

Speaker 3 (38:00):
But the fact of the matter is there is reasonable
accountability throughout the system for official acts, and there ought
to be. Qualified immunity is not just a step too far.
It is miles down the road too far. It will
dismantle civil government, and it will degrade the services.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
That everybody enjoys, including public surface, public.

Speaker 3 (38:24):
Safety, which you're simply going to see people either exit
or as JP said, they're going to sit back, wait
for the dust to settle.

Speaker 1 (38:34):
And any Yeah, why would you go the front lines?

Speaker 6 (38:36):
Or and you're not required what that nineteen to seventy
eight Supreme Court case. If you want to sit back
and watch things go down, no one can say, you know,
you didn't do your job and we're going to sue you.
I mean the hey, Supreme Court said that you're not obligated.
That was that Ripe case that was being done the
officers watch it didn't get involved in Supreme Court back
in seventy eight, So obligated. So if you see them
sitting there like that, that's what a qualified immunity is

(38:58):
going to do.

Speaker 1 (38:59):
Yeah, they take that away absolutely, guys. Let's jump to
our last break. When we come back, we're continuing our
discussion on the state of law enforcement and qualified immunity.
We're all talking broadcasting live from the studios of LAPD
Firearms Arranged. We'll be back right after the break. Welcome
back to on Target. I'm your host, Eric joined today
with a table full of friends. I got JC to
my left, I got big Ed to my right, my
good friend mister Brian Steele, Lieutenant Brian Steele, President Brian.

(39:22):
I don't know what to call you these days. Steele's fine,
still all right, yeah, Steel, always good to see you,
Thank you so much for being here, and of course,
to my left, our good friend Attorney General Davie. It's
always good to see you. Thank you so much for
coming in today. I know your weekends are valuable and
really appreciate.

Speaker 2 (39:37):
It's been an important discussion.

Speaker 1 (39:39):
It has it has. You know, we talked about a
lot of stuff today that wasn't uh, that wasn't It
was hard to talk about. But we had one bit
of good news this week here at our store. Did
I tell you about our longtime employee, Julia.

Speaker 3 (39:53):
Yes, yeah, that's congratulations to him graduating from law school.

Speaker 1 (39:57):
I understand, Yes, graduating from law school. And there he is.

Speaker 2 (40:08):
Duck under the line there Attorney General's challenge coin.

Speaker 3 (40:16):
Good luck and if you become a prosecutor, prosecute the
bad guys. Don't big deals, Okay, all.

Speaker 1 (40:26):
Right, amen. Honestly, we didn't think he was gonna make it.
To tell you the truth, Jollian's a great kid.

Speaker 2 (40:34):
I mean, been here has.

Speaker 1 (40:35):
Been neat to see him all all the step of
the way. He's worked here for a number of years now,
but it's been neat to see him go through his
internship with his Prosecutor's office and actually have some cases
from our agency go through him. It's been neat, so
well deserving and stuff. So we're proud of him. So good,
good guys. To follow up the last one, last day,
unqualified immunity that it's important. This affects all public servants.

(40:59):
So this could be that's right, your trash, the MENI
women picking up the trash, any of it. I mean,
think about that of being sued, the liability, I mean,
I don't know what these what these folks will have
to do to get insurance to protect themselves.

Speaker 2 (41:12):
But it has.

Speaker 1 (41:13):
Ramifications long outside of well beyond the first responder community.

Speaker 4 (41:18):
Yeah, I don't know what they think they're going to
get off the police officer, the social work or the
trash person. You're going to get my MX bill and
maybe a couple hundred dollars.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
I know, ridiculous, and I hope I hope the word
starts to get out as we get to November. Now,
there's no guarantee that it's going to be on the
ballot correct or that's correct.

Speaker 3 (41:35):
They've got to collect the signatures and but here's the thing,
it stays live. Even if they don't make it for
this November. They can keep collecting signatures and go on
in twenty six.

Speaker 5 (41:46):
I'd like to know what their basis for wanting to
do this is. Is it I mean, because it is
going to affect every public servant and it doesn't just
mean police. I would like to hear their reasonings of
where they're coming up with why they want to do this,
because I guarantee you it's not because of the trash man,
and it's not because of the paramedic.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
Ed Eric you guys ought to invite them on to
explain themselves.

Speaker 1 (42:07):
Yeah, are they here locally in clubs?

Speaker 2 (42:10):
I think the organizers are maybe from Cleveland, don't quote
me on that.

Speaker 1 (42:14):
Are they doing this in other in other states as well?

Speaker 2 (42:17):
I mean, it's Colorado experimented with it.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
Are they Is this still gone there?

Speaker 4 (42:21):
I mean, I don't know the update of Colorado. I
just remember having a brief on it through the National
flop and just it was again it was mass exodus.
And now if you want a police job, you can
get a job in one day on Colorado because they
can't get anybody.

Speaker 1 (42:32):
So just think of the quality of the people now
in that day, and.

Speaker 5 (42:35):
Colorado is a pretty liberal state.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
Boy, that's exactly why it happened.

Speaker 5 (42:39):
Later.

Speaker 1 (42:40):
Yeah, well, we got to keep talking about it.

Speaker 5 (42:42):
Fighting we can do besides talking about it, you know,
I follow We'll follow your lead there, mister Attorney General.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
I mean, well, we all have to be involved.

Speaker 3 (42:51):
And Brian, I think that it's probably time for you
to call your uh the counterparts that apps me and Oah.
They're not always allies on matters of law enforcement, but
on this one, you guys are all going to be
in the same boat, right, and if they make the ballot,

(43:12):
it's gonna take some dollars to tell the story to
defeat it.

Speaker 2 (43:16):
Locally.

Speaker 4 (43:16):
I've already talked to the other unions in town, the
other public service unions, and we are a lock and
step and the state of nationally we'll fight that too,
but we're definitely on it.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
Good to hear, guys, that's just been in the last hour.
I don't know where the time goes, It flies by.
Hopefully next week will be a little bit more of
an upbeat show. We're hoping to have the CEO of
Berna on. He was supposed to be on this week
but had a family event that he had to go to,
so fingers crossed next week hopefully he'll be on. Get
to a little more news and hopefully some better news

(43:48):
next week. Thanks to everyone who listened out there, Thanks
to Big Ed and John always here and of course
my good friend Brian and Turning Town Dagos officers.

Speaker 6 (43:57):
That we were injured that one gentlemen, Yeah, God, that
officer shot up to pieces.

Speaker 1 (44:03):
Absolutely, guys, and as always, let's be careful out there.