Special Guest City Attorney Zach Klein

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I've sent out too many emails to count over the
past thirteen years, inviting politicians and leaders who may not
share identical beliefs, but who share a common goal of
making our city and country better. An honest, fact base
discussion for the good of the community is all we've
ever looked to accomplish. We don't move forward until we

(00:21):
understand our neighbor. Time and time again, we heard nothing.
That was until last month. Last month, Columbus City Prosecutor
did not hesitate, did not send over a list of stipulations,
did not waver at any time when asked to join
us today. Up next to the special edition of On
Target with our guests, Zach Klein. Good afternoon, Welcome to

(00:44):
on Target. We're broadcasting live from the studio's of LPD
Farms Range and Training Facility. That's look at it at
nine nine nine, Triple nine, Bethel Road. I'm your host, Eric,
and Wow, what a packed house today. I think I
saw Paul Paul shuttling people in from Microcenter earlier. I
saw this sign, you know, please tip your driver, but yeah,

(01:04):
if you took the shuttle over, we appreciate that. What
was that comment, No one tips, No tipsy guys, I
want to start the show like we've done the past
five hundred and twenty four shows. We are the owners
of LAPED Firearms Range and Training Facility and are active
in law enforcement. But for one hour on Saturdays, we
put together a group of firearm experts to discuss new

(01:26):
products in the market, training tips, and oftentimes political topics
surrounding the Second Amendment. Our commitment, though, has always been
to bring you facts about our industry and help listeners
and customers with safe, responsible ownership of firearms. Joining me
today in the studio, I got JC to my left, JC.
There is some news one line. We're not going to
get to it today. We're going to kick it the

(01:47):
next week. But there's a lot that went on this
week this weekend.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
Glock is the Big Glock has just announced five days
ago to discontinued all of its current models period. They
will no longer be available because they're coming out with
a new model just called the Glock V series. They
just continue thirty four models fifty four if you count
the past generations that they have, and they're starting a

(02:13):
new These new models will be available in December, and
if you stay tuned next week. We're going to go
into detail about what and why. But obviously the new
models will not be able to be converted to glock switches,
which seems to be the prime motivation. So that and
the fact that the Supreme Court of the United States
Codis is taking up a marijuana gun case. Can you

(02:34):
have a gun and possess a gun with using marijuana?
It's got some got some legs to it, and they've
turned down a lot of cases. And the important thing
is this is only the first time in history that
they've entertained two Second Amendment cases in their two hundred
and thirty six year history. So this is pushed forward
by the DOJ. So we'll see what happens. We'll talk

(02:55):
about this in detail next week, but we will we
will hit that.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
Certainly a lot going on in the industry. To my right,
of course, is big and always good to see you, Edward.
He's going to be monitoring Facebook and if you have
questions out there, certainly shoot us through us through that
and ed will keep us there. Ll she's back at
the station pulling the levers. And of course our guests
today we're so happy to have Colmbus City Prosecutor is
that climb with us? Thanks for having you know what,

(03:22):
You've brought a large crowd. Is it too early to
ask you to come back next week as well? I'm ouiji.
They don't get this, and I'm a little bit nervous
because my mom's in the crowd too, so I don't
know if she makes you nervous too. Yeah, me as well, Guys.
Today on the show, I am still reeling from last week.
I have to thank iconic Bill Wilson from Wilson Combat

(03:45):
for jumping on with us. Afterwards, You guys will get
a kick out of this. Afterwards, he sends me an
email thanking me for coming on as I would expect,
and he says, would it be okay if I came
back on sometime? And I said, I'll check and get
back a bill. But yeah, absolutely great. Having him on
the show was certainly worthwhile. Guys. We're pushing news and

(04:08):
guinn of the week to next week, as we mentioned,
but thanks to Ella in the program director of a WTVN,
we're running running a very limited commercial show today. We're
going to run for almost a full hour hour with Zach.
So that's that's good news. That's that's some good stuff.
I'd like to thank our sponsors US Law Shield, Jackson, Egress, Windows,
Black Wing Shooting Center, rivers Edge Cutlery, and of course

(04:30):
LAPD Training Facility, all who make the show possible each week.
If you miss the show, you can always catch the podcast.
It's at six to ten WTVN dot com. It's on Itune, iHeartRadio, really,
any place you get your podcasts, we're out there. We're
on Facebook YouTube, they're archived out there as well if
you miss the live video feed. So, guys, I want

(04:50):
to first act, I want to really genuinely thank you
for coming on. Really, this is a great thing. It
is you know, we joke about it and stuff, but
it is really good. I appreciate you coming on. I
think we all have this same motivation to make our
city and our country safer. Maybe different ideas and how
to get there, but this is where it starts. It
starts with the conversation and you stepping up to this

(05:11):
is a great thing. Well.

Speaker 3 (05:12):
I couldn't agree more and thank you for having me
on because I feel like we're out of time, especially
now in our country where it is taboo and frowned
upon to disagree, and it's okay to have conversations and
be honest about facts, because this is what the country
is built on. It's built on conversation, it's built on compromise.
It's built and that's how we move forward. And Lord

(05:34):
knows that with the extremes, kind of the left and
the right extremes, you know, pushing us in their directions,
like the middle, common sense, common ground is absent right now.
And so if we can't all sit around and have
an honest dialogue and find areas of compromise, or whether
it's on guns, or whether it's on healthcare, or taxes
or immigration, it doesn't matter what the issue is, but

(05:54):
we have to find the commonality to move forward, to
make this country the country should be.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
One hundred percent. I mean, we've always said here, you know,
the media is filled with the extremes, but most of
America's right here, and and so we need to continue
that conversation. And I appreciate it. I appreciate you being here.
I want to start out somewhat on a little bit
of a of a lighter note. Our research. We've looked at,
you know, some of the past decisions that you've made,

(06:19):
some of them you were second guest on sometimes people
thought that you maybe missed a decision along the way.
You've talked about it recently. I wanted to know if
you would comment on one of these past decisions.

Speaker 3 (06:34):
Oh Larry Bird.

Speaker 4 (06:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (06:36):
So I'm just saying, and for those for those who
are not here in person or not watching the feed,
that the crowd just held up a series of Larry
Bird heads.

Speaker 1 (06:48):
How did Larry Bird influence your young yeers?

Speaker 3 (06:51):
Well, I'm gonna have to tell the made for radio Yes, exactly.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
I appreciate that.

Speaker 3 (06:56):
So. Look, I have been very fortunate. I refereed Division
IE women's college basketball for twenty years. It's what When
I was in college, I refereed inner murals, met some
people work my way up the ladder. Like, you know,
you're actually pretty good at refereeing. You get a lot
of calls right, probably get a lot of calls wrong too.
But I got involved in my trajectory referee. I got

(07:17):
involved in the NBA system, And you know, in the
NBA system, you get selected first you go to the
NBA summer leagues. This time it was my very first one.
I was like maybe in my early twenties, was in
Salt Lake City, Utah. In my very first game, it
was the Jazz versus the Pacers. And you can imagine
a young twenty some year old kid. You go in

(07:38):
Salt Lake City. They play the games at the community
College and it seats like six or seven thousand people
and they love their jazz, and so they're playing the Pacers.
I'm nervous as all get out. I mean I am
super nervous. And the ball tips up and I'm the
referee on the baseline and a guy for the jazz
free point. It drives in kind of maybe pushes off

(07:59):
a little, but I didn't call it offensive foul, pulls
up for a jumper, nothing but net, and all of
a sudden, behind me, I hear, don't you know what
a bad word offensive foul is? And I was like, oh,
you know, it's jarring. The person was like right behind me.
So we run down to the end of the court
and I can't remember the ball goes out of bounds
or something, but it's a time out, uh. And I

(08:21):
turned around. I was like, who the heck just yelled
at me, And then I turn around and it's Larry Bird.
Larry Bird is standing there with his arms up just
shaking his head, and you know, because he was the
president of the Pacers at the time. So I was like, man,
I just got yelled at my Larry Bird. That's the
greatest thing. So I immediately, immediately after the game, I
go in the locker room and I called my mom
and dad like, Mom, You'll never guess what happened. Larry

(08:43):
Bird just yelled at me. You know, It's like I
was hanging out with a celebrity.

Speaker 1 (08:47):
Yeah, that's super cool. I mean I can only imagine
what you felt at the time.

Speaker 3 (08:52):
You're trying to tell here, you're trying to get me
all jarred up, you know.

Speaker 1 (08:58):
A little bit and stuff.

Speaker 2 (08:59):
I did call in earlier, he said he still felt
the same way.

Speaker 1 (09:04):
Yeah, if Larry chimed in on Facebook.

Speaker 3 (09:07):
Unfortunately, everyone under the age of thirty probably doesn't know
who the heckler.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
Like Google, he probably knows him for some commercial right,
So zak on a more serious note, Columbus City prosecutor,
and for our purposes as well, because I don't know this,
talk a little bit about your role as the city
prosecutor versus the county prosecutor. What's under your purview?

Speaker 3 (09:26):
So we do all misdemeanor crimes in the City of Columbus.
We do not do juvenile crime prosecution. We do not
do felony crime prosecution. That is the county prosecutor and
I see my friend and colleague, Groan O'Brien, the former
Franklin County prosecutor here. So we do everything from traffic
violations all the way up to something very serious like

(09:47):
domestic violence. Domestic violence is probably the most serious crime
that we prosecute within my jurisdiction that happens in the
City of Columbus. We're a very busy court. We do
about one hundred thousand cases a year when you look
at kind of all the traffic and everything in between.
But it's it's a great shot. My predecessor, Rick Pfeiffer,
you know, set me up for success. And I've been

(10:09):
the city attorney now for two terms. I'm on the
ballot this November and will be my third term as
city attorney.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
So do you have any influence though, when it comes
to the juvenile part of it or the the felony part,
or is that really totally outside of your your scope?

Speaker 3 (10:25):
The only influence I have is as a citizen in
whatever bully pulpit I have as the city attorney, I
do not have any control or influence on the actual
decision making outside of just conversations.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
One of the things too, under the clembus city attorney's
roles and responsibilities, I guess is you also support CPD
officers who are who have I guess civil cases against them,
that type of thing. So that's also stuff that you're
involved in. Y.

Speaker 3 (10:48):
So my office is divided into two sections. Essentially, it's
the criminal section, which is the prosecution of mistering your crime.
And then we're essentially the lawyers for the city. And
with that we represent all city employees in their official
capacity like law enforcement when the city gets sued. And
we're also we have two lawyers. Two of my lawyers
are embedded in CPD that are the police legal advisors,

(11:10):
and so they do training, they answer calls and all
questions about search warrants, questions about legality, and so we're
actively involved with our client's CPD and support them in
everyone we can so they could be successful and safe
in return to their families.

Speaker 1 (11:25):
That's good, it's good. So when we start talking about
how to get to the root calls of the issues
we're seeing. One of the things we had to look
at and identify is what's the problem. And by a
lot of accounts, you know, in Columbus, you hear a
lot of things about crime is going down. And I'll
have to tell you, I mean, and I'm sure you
see it in your role too, just being on the

(11:46):
streets for the limited amount of time that I'm out there.
It has changed since twenty twenty. Prior to twenty twenty,
if we had a gun call when I was out,
if we had a shots fire call, we were talking
about it for a week. I mean that it just
didn't happen. Nowadays, post twenty twenty, there's not a shift
that I work that there's not a shots fired call

(12:09):
or a gun call. Things have changed. And even though
we look at maybe the murder rates have gone down
a little bit, statistically speaking, things are different as it
relates to gun crimes in our community. So kind of
to set the stage, just murders alone, and I think
they're down, Okay, seventy three this is just hot off
the press. As of last week, seventy three percent of

(12:30):
the victims murdered in Columbus were black or Hispanic seventy
three percent. That's a huge number. Thirty six percent of
them under twenty one. I mean, that's that's that's horrible.
You know, that's horrible. When you flip over to the
suspects side of things, seventy five percent of them again
black or Hispanic. In the suspects, forty two percent are

(12:52):
under twenty one. You start to focus on what the
problem is. And of course all of these and these
numbers hold true with flonious assaults as well, very so similar.
But one of the things that you see throughout this
is that firearms are involved, and the perception is and
I think you would comment that this is a true
statement that the firearms are starting to trickle down to
some of these other things. It's not just the flowings

(13:14):
of thoughts and the murders, it's the carjackings. We're seeing
it pop up time and time again. So it has
to lead you to believe to ask the question, what
can we do to get the guns out of the
hands of the bad guys? I mean, I think that's
a thing that's important.

Speaker 3 (13:29):
It's something that I think about all the time. The
stats are alarming. There's a lot to unpack there.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
Yeah, you know.

Speaker 3 (13:36):
First, my first reaction is is that when you look
at the stats in the city of Columbus, crime, violent
crime in particular is going down. And that's great. It's
going down across the country. It's a national trend. Columbus
is writing that. I think it's because of CPD and
the good work our law enforcement is doing in the
fact that we're investing in people as well. But also

(13:56):
equally concerning is the of people when they go out
to the grocery store, they're going to the mall, they
are concerned about crimes. So I can show you, or
any elected official can show you what the stats are.
The stats really don't mean a hill of beans if
people don't feel safe. And when you look at the
type of crimes that are being committed and who's committing them,
and you highlighted some of the most recent statistics for Columbus,

(14:21):
it's alarming the number of young people that are involved
in crimes. And I know I'm not the juvenile prosecutor
or juvenile judge, but what my office has brought together
CPD and the judges, in particular the juvenile judges to
figure out, like, what are we going to do with
these kids? That have a litany of criminal history that
are dangerous to themselves and to others because what we're

(14:44):
doing right now it ain't working right and now, the
juvenile justice system may be very effective for ninety five
percent of the kids that go through it, but there's
clearly a five or so percent that are committing these
very dangerous crimes, and we need to figure out a
way to change their lives, to make to so they
can turn their lives around and be rehabilitated while they're
so young. Because the number of serious crimes committed it's

(15:06):
like under like twenty five and younger. It's like, right,
that's like the age the age breaking point of where
you're seeing a lot of these crimes that are committed
that are dangerous not only for the kids involved, but
for the victims as well.

Speaker 1 (15:17):
Right And you know, being againstorem being in this business,
it it pains us to see firearms used against fellow citizens,
against officers. So we always are looking at what can
we do, what can be done to take guns out
of the hands of criminals. And you see, by and
large right now, theft is a huge thing. Car break
in and we'll touch on this here in a minute.

(15:38):
But you know, we need to stop getting you know,
letting it proliferate to the to the juveniles with these guns.
So here's my question. Over the past couple of years,
the City of Columbus, City of Cleveland and Cincinnati has
tried to put things in place to you know, offset
the criminal element getting firearms, and some of these have

(16:01):
hit up against some pretty tough to put tough things
in the court. Tell me, why do you think it's
important for the city of Columbus to be able to
make their own laws in regards to guns.

Speaker 3 (16:13):
So I think this is a broader question about the
city's ability to make its own laws generally, and it
includes guns. So there's this concept in the Ohio Constitution
that was passed about one hundred or so years ago
that is the basis of home rule, right, And it's
that I grew up in southeastern Ohio, a little town
called Belbury. It's on the river across from Parkersburg, West Virginia.
And what's good for Belbury. It may not be good

(16:35):
for Columbus, or may not be good for Ashtabula or Toledo.
But when you're in charge of the city of Columbus,
Columbus leaders, whether it's the mayor or the council, city attorney,
you should have the flexibility to pass laws that protect
the health, safety, and welfare of its citizens. And so
Columbus should have the ability to pass laws that are necessary,

(16:55):
assuming it doesn't run up against Ohio law. And that's
the theory of all of our cases, including guns. We
have a pesticides case, you know, we've had a conscience
clause case against the state of Ohio. So it's not
just limited to guns, but it's all about the protection
of home rule and preserving the city's ability to make
what walls we think are best for our citizens.

Speaker 1 (17:16):
Right we're talking to Columbus City Prosecutor Zach Klein. So
one of the things that pains us a little bit
on those is that when we look at and we'll
get into some of the specific system of the recent stuff,
but when you look at in essence, a patchwork of
laws that the law abiding gun owner has to try
to navigates, it's insurmountable. So I mean, it could be

(17:40):
as extreme as the city at Columbus has a magazine ban.
In Westerville you can't do this, and in Worthington there's
no way that a law abiding citizen, even if they tried,
could navigate it. And so I think that's where sometimes
our rub comes with that, and that we say, hey, look,
we're not against doing things to keep guns out of
the hands of criminals. We'll be on the front line
of that. But some of these things that in essence

(18:02):
makes everyone else, all the law abiding people, criminals. And
it's arguable whether it's going to affect the criminal element
because they typically don't obey laws anyways. So why not
change the path of that a little bit and look
and try to maybe do something that goes after the
criminal element and not roping in everyone else.

Speaker 3 (18:23):
Well, two things. First of all, I think it's in
all of the above approach. You know, I think that
we do need to enforce the laws that are currently
on the books, and sometimes there's a frustration as a
prosecutor that oftentimes it's that's not getting done. And then secondly,
like I would love nothing more than Columbus to get
out of what we think are common sense gun regulations

(18:45):
if the State of Ohio and the federal government would
do their partner. And that, I think is where the
rub is is that we are left in a state
when you look as simply as ten or fifteen years ago,
when there were were, in my opinion, common sense gun
laws on the books in the state of Ohio that
has been basically blanketly repealed over the past decade plus
that have essentially left us with no gun laws on

(19:07):
the books in Ohio. And so that these cities like
Columbus to step in to say, well, you know, domestic violence,
misdemeanor weapons under disability, you know something that we're one
of the very few states in the United States that
doesn't have a disability for misdemeanor domestic violence condiction. So
what we do, City of Columbus, We created our own
you know.

Speaker 2 (19:27):
So there is so.

Speaker 3 (19:28):
Much opportunity for the state of Ohio to enact what
I believe are reasonable gun restrictions that I think we
would probably find commonality on to pass. But they're not
passing them. As a matter of fact, they're going in the
opposite direction. And so we are left kind of with
thea you're.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
Feeling like you don't you're trying to do something to
put something in place because it's not there already, correct
and and.

Speaker 2 (19:50):
Some of that JC g no I was just saying
just due to the preemption laws. Why not really work
get the folks together to get the legislature to say, Okay, yeah,
we do need these stiffer penalties.

Speaker 3 (20:03):
I would I would love nothing more as a matter
of fact, like my homework coming from this show. You know,
it would be you know, first first of all, like
the first of many conversations. But you know, how can
a group like us, you know, figure out what we
do agree on and go to the legislature, at the
Ohio legislature and get something past that can protect cops,

(20:24):
that can protect citizens, that can make us safer. Like
I said, I love nothing more than Columbus to get
out of the gun regulation business. If the state of
Ohio would do.

Speaker 1 (20:31):
Something, do it, you know, and let's talk about some
of those things that and some of these we're going
to be lock stop with you on some of them.
I'm going to say, I'm gonna ask you about. But
straw purchases was one of the ones that had I
mean one hundred percent. I mean, if somebody is buying
a gun for somebody else who can't legally own a gun,
nail them. And and we can't just nail them when
that ends up in shooting of officers in Westerville. We

(20:54):
need to take it seriously every time, not just when
it becomes in the top of the Median news. Tell
me why with Ohio having a straw purchase law, with
the federal having a stall purchase law, why would the
city of Columbus feel it need be to have a
straw purchase law.

Speaker 3 (21:11):
Well, we changed the bird, we changed the men's raya,
the thinking of from it, the intentionality of making the
stall purchase so that it's easier for prosecutors to prosecute
the cases.

Speaker 1 (21:21):
Okay, locally local, Okay, So how does that? I mean
strall purchase? And when we think about it, most of
the time it's someone's coming into a store buying a gun,
and we've seen it with twenty one year olds trying
to buy it for sixteen year olds. Right, I don't
even know if there's a gun store in the city
of Columbus, probably not. Probably not. So we look at
that like that, and I mean, we agree with you

(21:42):
one hundred percent on straw purchases, but we look and
we say, well, why, I mean, there's you know, there's
state law, and maybe we need to tweak that so
it's easier for you to prosecute and stuff.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
Jac No, no, I was just in agreement with all that.
I mean, you know, we do our part as vigilant
as we can be, but you never know. You sell
it to someone who passes all the best checks and
then they go out and need some extra money and
end up selling it to a neighbor without knowing that
they have a criminal background, and and there you go.
I mean, this is how that, this is how that
goes to the purpose.

Speaker 3 (22:09):
Of the City of Columbus was to make it easier
for prosecuting, for prosecuting.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
And I don't and I don't disagree like I mean,
we have you know, we get people who get denied
in the store, and our contention is if they get denied,
most of the time they've lied on the form. You know,
are you a fellon? Nope, And the federal prosecutors are
too busy to handle that. Well, Luckily Ohio has a law,
so we've charged them here, We've had them charge We've
reported it to local authorities, and we've had him charged

(22:35):
for lying on the form in the course of stuff.
So I get that maybe sometimes that our federal partners
are too busy. We need to take it back in house.
So I mean and that you know that, I think
that is.

Speaker 3 (22:44):
Actually a rub. That's a problem that we have a lot,
is that there are federal laws that aren't being enforced
because there's lack of capacity in the US Attorney's office. Uh,
you know, misdemeanor and mester violence go back to that,
like that is a federal preemption, like federal disability. I mean,
and so like you you could be charged federally with
a misdemeanor domestic violence conviction state of Ohio you cannot be.

(23:06):
But they're not going to our US Attorney's office just
from a practical standpoint and a manpower standpoint, right, is
not going to plow through those hundreds of cases or
probably maybe even more because it's the entire southern District
of Ohio, let alone Columbus. And so the city of
Columbus being able to step in to have that disability
that mirrors federal wall I think is an effective to time.
And we've had prosecutions in there, and we.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
Should do that statewide. I mean, that should be I mean,
that should be lockstock and barrel with the federal and
if we can then prosecute it locally, let's do it.
I mean, we're we're totally with that.

Speaker 4 (23:35):
And why not just make it a felony in Ohio
and city and push it up into the felony courts
rather than butt your heads against the people who don't
want it is a misdemeanor.

Speaker 3 (23:48):
Well, the only way that we can pass city laws
with for them to be misdemeanors. We don't have the
authority to create any sort of felony.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
Level walls, So you don't.

Speaker 4 (23:55):
You can't when somebody comes into court and they're charged
with a misdemeanor m one and there's and there's not
a section that could bump it up to a felony.

Speaker 3 (24:02):
Crime if there's if there's one on the books, certainly,
but the City of Columbus, like our city council and mayor,
they don't have the ability to create its own felony law.
So we only can create misdemeanor laws. So we we
created the misdemeanor domestic violence weapons under Disability law due
to domestic violence.

Speaker 2 (24:21):
So increase the penalties, I mean, and make it Yeah,
that's what we were talking about, and.

Speaker 3 (24:26):
You can, we could we can have max up to
a year, right, six months to a year. We first
agree classify and we and we have maximum penalties with these.

Speaker 2 (24:34):
That is great. So how do we get the judges
to go Yeah, I mean the whole thing is point
you can do. We can That's what we get as
we look at you know, there's certain judges out there
that you come in no matter what you do. Juveniles
kill somebody, Yeah you killed somebody, but I'm going to
send you home with an ankle bracelet and have a
great day. This is what we're seeing.

Speaker 3 (24:54):
So wow, this is where I think we have a
lot of come from around because I have the same
frustration and y'all when it comes to violent individuals that
are repeat offenders and they're not going to prison or
going to jail, like, we need to be tougher on
folks who have disabilities, especially disabilities that are created by
violent felony conduct.

Speaker 2 (25:15):
And we need a list of the judge because we
no one out here. We don't see the cases. Here's
the case, here's what happened, and here's what the judge decided.
Who is that judge? I mean in the juvenal court.
I know actually worked with one of them at one time,
and just it's like a revolving door. Yeah you're good, Yeah,
go home, you'll do better, and the problem don't. But
how do we need to We need a list and

(25:36):
who could make a list of saying here's the case,
a gun case, and this is what happened, and here's
how the judge handled that, and if they're up for election,
people need to know, Look, we're serious about this, we
are serious about this, and we need to not elect
those judges. And there's just it's really frustrating for us
because you could do the best job in the world

(25:56):
and we can do whatever we can on our end,
and still when you end up catching somebody, you know,
it's not just a joke. We have people going car thefts.
The kids are going home before the paperwork is done
on the charges because judges are going yeah, yeah, yeah,
you just wrecked a few cars. You did this anyway.
But that's kind of what we feel like with with

(26:17):
gun laws, like just those are the first charges that
are thrown out when they when a case is plaied. Okay, yeah, yeah,
you're a fell in. You've been eight charges with having
a gun, but yeah, that's okay, we'll just get you
on this other stuff. This is the frustration. I think
that we feel one of the frustrations.

Speaker 3 (26:34):
No, I'm with you. Yeah, I think that we have
a problem in this county, certainly in the country, where
there are laws in the books that are not being
enforced to the fullest extent, especially when you have underlying
violent criminal history and you possess a gun. Like the
reality is the cases. Like as a prosecutor, we look

(26:58):
at two different buckets, like who are people who are
violent and dangerous and have no regard for the law
on one hand, and then who are people that need help,
who make mistakes, who need rehabilitation. And thankfully, in the
misdemeanor world, a large number of cases are in the
latter bucket. It's people that need help. They're down on
their luck, they make stupid decisions, and we have programs

(27:18):
that we're proud of that we get them pointed in
the right direction for rehabilitation, to make our community safeer.
It's the end of the day. If you're you know,
trespassing or stealing food from Kroger, like, we can help
clean that up to make our community better. But there
are a group of people who just have no regard
for the law and who are violent and we need
to ask for jail time. We don't have prison time
and misdemeaning world, we have jail time, but we need

(27:41):
to ask for jail time. And we should not be
unabashed and afraid to ask for jail time for domestic
violence abusers, for people to commit assault. And you can
translate that, even though I'm not the county prosecutor, but
you can translate that same mindset when it comes to
someone who is violent or violent and possesses a gun
or has a criminal history that's violence and possesses the gun,
and we need to be tougher on them than we

(28:02):
need to be on everyday kind of low level of
criminals who just need some help.

Speaker 4 (28:07):
And a good example of that is that And I
know it hasn't been as prevalent now, but the Kia boys.
How many times, how many of the same ones we're
arrested over and over for stealing cars, running from the police,
and they just got to slap on the hand. Yeah,
and now that's misdemeanor, world, is it not?

Speaker 2 (28:25):
No, No, it's juvenile.

Speaker 3 (28:27):
So it's so it's county prosecutor not me. Yeah, But
again frustrating because we can we advise CPD on those cases.
And the reality with the with the Kia boys or
the kids that are stealing cars is, you know, the
juvenile justice system out of all the court systems, it is,
it's focused more on rehabilitation than it because they're kids.

Speaker 2 (28:45):
But it's not working. But it's but that's the key.

Speaker 3 (28:47):
It's not working.

Speaker 4 (28:48):
So getting together and working together on this is where
do we go for it.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
To change that? How do we get that changed?

Speaker 3 (28:54):
Well? And that's that's what I was saying earlier to Eric,
is that you know, my using my ability to bring
in and police and have conversations because these are all
independently elected judges, independently elected prosecutor, but I as just
as a citizen and someone who cares deeply about public safety,
you know, like use the ability as a city attorney's
office to bring people to have like being honest, like

(29:16):
this is a problem. And guess what when these kids
steal the cars, they're the ones running into telephone polls
and they're killing themselves. So like you have a long
criminal history of stealing cars that may seem may seem
on paper, how he's just joy writing. Well, guess what
the next time they have guns? Next time they kill
somebody or they kill themselves. So how are we helping
that kid that's a mom and a dad who doesn't
have a son or a daughter anymore because the justice

(29:37):
system failed them.

Speaker 1 (29:38):
Yeah? Absolutely, one hundred percent. Can I give you grief
about Heaven? Sure, I'm going to you now. I mean,
what back to some of the proposals that we've done,
that they've had in the past. One of the ones
that how should I say? There you go Edward the magazine.

Speaker 3 (29:55):
Band, what you guys are in favor of it?

Speaker 1 (29:58):
Or a he did very well, We did very well
during that period. But what research went into saying thirty
rounds is bad, twenty seven is okay, but it's not
thirty two. Give us some history, because from our standpoint,
we look at that and we're like, all we did

(30:18):
was make three hundred thousand people in Columbus criminals overnight.
We have people call and saying, I bought this twenty
five years ago, I'm a criminal now, and there's six
months in jail, no provision for work and release.

Speaker 2 (30:31):
And crimes aren't being committed with them. And there went
two years without a single rifle crime that we could
we could find, not a single one and Columbus because
no one carries around the rifles. It's it's always handguns, knives, whatever.
But I thought, so, why are they passing this when
not a single crime is being committed with it, and
it's only going to affect the honest citizens. Those kind

(30:53):
of things make absolutely no sense.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
Exactly what we did, it's our trust and it was
tongue in cheek, but it was. It was. It made
a point is we had a company make up a
spacer and we put a space ron all of them
made them twenty nine rounds. It didn't make it any
less deadly or more deadly or anything else. Give me
some insight on the thinking beside that.

Speaker 3 (31:13):
Well, I think we looked at a myriad of factors.
The first was, well, when we what we thought could
passed constitutional muster with the Ohio Supreme Court, like you know,
ten to one hundred somewhere, we had to come up
with the number. We looked at what industry magazines were
and kind of what the standard was, you know, looked

(31:34):
at what law our own law enforcement care. You know,
they have seventeen in their magazine, one in the in
the chamber. So going up against what they're going up
against and even though not at the time we didn't
have the crystal ball, but then we saw what happened
in Uvalde where officers were like, I'm not going in
there because of of the number of magazines and the

(31:55):
type of weapons that that that killer had.

Speaker 1 (31:57):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (31:58):
And then you know, we looked at I think ten
years ago, the state of Ohio had a magazine limitation
that I think they back in twenty thirteen was it
got it repealed, so for thirty or forty years in
Ohio it was thirty. And so we took all of
that information together and we came up with the number thirty.

Speaker 1 (32:17):
So why wouldn't you in that case, recognizing that the
overwhelming majority of people in Columbus that have those are
lawbiting people, why wouldn't you just say we're gonna make
it an enhancement or a speck on a crime. So
if you're caught stealing a car and you have a
gun with a thirty round bag, boom, it's an extra
six months. Rather than throw the blanket out there across

(32:41):
to everyone and have people scramble and the other thing
with that as well as you know, I mean, that
would have been a city ordinance. So we were fine here,
it's just like the menthol cigarettes. I mean, you go
across the straight and get them. I mean, so that
was our thinking one that and we didn't. We would
have liked to have seen if that was truly an issue,
make an enhancement to make it. You know.

Speaker 3 (33:01):
The trouble with the enhancement is you're you'd be trying
to enhance what otherwise would be some felony conduct you
mentioned stealing, So we only can deal in that, okay, right, right,
So but again I think it begs the question of
this global conversation of what can we do in the
state that is blanketly applied that I think does fairly

(33:24):
give relief to the folks that you come in here
and do the right thing. And I appreciate that. I
really do appreciate it. And I know that it places
a lot this of law buying citizens in a in
a quandary, and they obviously don't want to break the
law because they want to complying, because they're law buying
by definition. But there is this general desire I think
for the people that I represent of like you know,

(33:45):
they see the rise in gun crimes, whether it's handguns
or mass shootings around the country, right, and that folks
want to do something about it, and our state is
going in the opposite direction. And if there was ability
for cooler heads and common sense to prevail on universal
back ground checks or even mandatory training or red flag walls,
you know, like those are things that I think can

(34:05):
make a difference in our state, especially red flag walls,
if done properly and effectively, that we can get the
guns out of hands that are that are mentally ill,
that are going to kill people, that are domestic violence abusers,
and that we can be effective in making our community save.
We all share that common goal and we do.

Speaker 1 (34:23):
And I think I think the gun community is willing
to look at the facts behind it. But for instance,
the thirty round magazine commonly goes to like an ar,
right or an AK and so we and we've talked
about this stat for years and stuff, and it's really
an eye opening stat. And I just pulled this. This
is hot off the press ten year average. So this
isn't cherry picking a year. It's like this, this is national average.

(34:45):
Nationally every year, about twelve thousand people are murdered by guns. Okay, horrible,
horrible number. Right, of that, just over eleven thousand are handguns.
Eleven thousands to the fast overwhelming majority of your handguns.
Just to put it in perspectives, fifteen hundred people a
year nationwide die by knives, fifteen hundred, three hundred and
eighty six a year on average, blunt objects horrible, Right,

(35:09):
six hundred and seventy nine a year die by hands,
fists and feet, bar fights. We had one in Columbus, right,
six hundred and seventy nine per year. Less than that,
six hundred and fifty times a year over the last
ten years. Somebody's died by a rifle, any rifle, not
just in ar. So we look at that and say,

(35:29):
that is such a small subset of everything. If we
were serious about reducing crime, about changing what's going on
in the street, that's not logically where you go. So
why does it keep going to that? Why does the
ar keep popping up his name band when it's it's negligible.
That's horrible. I mean, six hundred and fifty people nationwide, horrible,

(35:52):
I get it. But at the same time, at the
same time, the same time period, eleven thousand people a
year die as a result of speeding deaths, speeding accidents,
traffic accents involving speed. But yet we continue to whip
out cars that go one hundred and forty the speed
limit seventy. What are we doing to our kids? It's
the same argument. But why are we so focused on

(36:15):
that when it's regulatively negligible in the whole scheme of things.

Speaker 3 (36:19):
Well, look, I can only speak for me, but I
see those numbers, and I see first handguns are a
big deal, huge, But I also see con concert goers
in Vegas. I absolutly see kids at Sandy Hook, kids
in Parkland. You know, folks going to a nightclub in Orlando,
my friends in the Jewish community going to synagogue, folks

(36:41):
going to a grocery store in Pittsburgh. And those were
all not handguns. So these are these are high profile
shootings that are even in Dayton, you know, high profile
shootings that are used to kill a lot of people
in a quick amount of time at school and Uvalde
that we talked about earlier, And I don't know why
we would want to pretend that is negligible, even though

(37:05):
it may statistically be when you look at gun deaths overall,
But those are those are kids, Those are folks trying
to go to concerts and movies, And like, we need
an all of the above conversation of how we can
reduce gun violence generally. And I think you have to
holistically look at all of the gun deaths and certainly
with a recognition that handguns are primarily involved and a

(37:28):
vast majority of them, yea high ninety percent, just based
on some quick maps. Yeah, but you can't or shouldn't,
in my opinion, discount about I.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
Mean, we look at it. The rifle of this here
is on the table was made in nineteen sixty three.
It was sold to the general population before the military.
It has been around for years and years and years,
but all of a sudden it's now a problem. So
society has changed. The gun has not changed. It's almost
exactly is what we have on the thisself today. So we

(37:57):
look at that and say this is a bigger, deeper issue.
I mean, society has gone down the wrong called the
judges or the juveniles, whatever it is. So we look
at that and say, so many people have is the
number one selling rifle in America. It's the monitoring sporting rifle.
Because of how it is so we look at that
and say, geez, you know, we can't. We can't impede
the Second Amendment on all these people when it's such

(38:19):
a small, finite number. And that's a conversation. I mean,
it's a conversation.

Speaker 3 (38:23):
So look, when I look at gun violence, I think
of the four p's right. It's people investing in people
mental health, investing in kids. It's good quality education. It's
police making sure we have more police on the streets,
making sure we let police do their job. It's prosecutors
and judges enforcing the laws that we have. And then
there's a political conversation. It's a political conversation that we're
having here about what laws are appropriate, where the protection

(38:45):
of the Second Amendment begins and where it ends. What
walls can make a difference that are reasonable, that can
pass and survive constitutional muster. But those are the four
piece I think if we're going to make a difference
in violence, like those are the four piece where we
have to spend all of our time talking about invest
thing financially, investing legally, and investing politically to make a difference.

Speaker 1 (39:04):
Yep. Absolutely. Before we go into break. One last question,
and this is a this is something that is a
hot topic right now. Glock switches, Now this might fall
out of your purview. I don't know if that does.

Speaker 3 (39:13):
All Okay, we're involved with it again being the layers
for police, but we're not processing it is.

Speaker 1 (39:17):
It is extremely disappointing from our standpoint that it took
several years before Franklin County chose to charge our first one,
when if you know, if you're in and around this
industry long enough, you'll know that automatic weapons that is
the big hardline. You don't joke about having one that's
not registered.

Speaker 2 (39:37):
You don't.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
You certainly don't make one. I mean it is up
to ten years in prison, quarter million dollars. Fine, don't
pass go you're done yet. We allow these kids and
these people out there to have them with relatively no punishment.
Devonte Dixon, sure you know the name the thug who
shot the Mifflin officers had been caught with a glock

(39:59):
switch and got probation out of it. That's a problems
Act and that is something I will stand shoulder to
shoulder with you and do what it takes that has
to stop being throughout our community and terrorizing the city
and whatever you can you know you have thoughts on that.
We're there with you. It's ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (40:18):
Look, I think that between ghost guns and glock switches,
these are things that are populating up in our community
that are threatening officers. They're threatening people's safety, and like
you highlighted one, we're unfortunately an officer. You know what
was was a victim of you know, glock switch, and
we have to be we have to be tougher on
these on these crimes. I agree with you and Jason.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
The one thing you said early on, and it's the
first we've heard from any politician, was you said, hey,
we need to sit down, we need to work together.
We don't get that he's put out just all sorts
of flowers, Hey, come and meet, come and talk. Nobody
seems to want to do that and that. But yeah,
but yeah, this is really important. They're the ones who

(41:01):
see what's happening out there, and you have to work together.
I just I get so tired of people who've never
even seen a firearm in their life going, oh, it's
got to bendet lug, so it's an assault weapon. Well,
how many people have been stabbed to death with a
bayonet during a crime, Probably zero in the last several years.
I mean, it's just but they're making stupid things and
to affect everybody, and we just need to work together
to solve problems. And if it needs to go up

(41:23):
to the state level, if you can't prosecute that, then
we need to work And you can say, look, I
can't do anything about this, but you know, legislators pass
a law if someone's using a thirty round magazine and
a crime, then they get a mandatory extra six months
a year whatever they decide on. But that's what needs
to happen or else. This is just continuing to I
know that.

Speaker 3 (41:43):
You interview me, but I do have a question on
the glock switch. Yeah, just an educational piece. Do you
do you view the fact that the glock is susceptible
to the glock switch? Is that considered like in your industry,
to be a defective product like that? The fact that
they could be.

Speaker 1 (41:56):
No, And unfortunately glock is catching a lot of grief.
They didn't do it. Glock has been around since the
eighties eighty changed, hasn't changed. This is another uh, you
know somebody has taken advantage of that and stuff. It's
not this and you could do the same thing to
the ars and everything else. I don't I hesitate placing
blame on Block. I mean, they're they're the manufacturers of

(42:16):
a thing. I mean, we're gonna sue Forward for the
drunk drivers and Budweiser for the drunk drivers. I mean,
next thing, we'll be suing Kia for stolen cars.

Speaker 3 (42:28):
Because they do make a dissective product.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
But but for years, I mean, this is the product
that law enforcements care and is. I would argue it's
not defective. It has been taken advantage of. And so
we need to show if you're caught with one of these,
it's do not pass go. There is no second chance
you are caught with a unlicensed machine gun. If I
was caught with that right now, there would be no
mercy on me. But we continue to give it to

(42:52):
these thugs. The thugs, and.

Speaker 3 (42:54):
It sounds like the top of the show that Glock
is doing something about it.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
Well they have now, as I said, officially, there are
no more glocks available period. They've stopped making them, and
they're going to start with this V series which apparently
we haven't released out. This is just five days old,
so this was like brand new but anyway they're gonna block.
They can't be they can't be converted with the glocks.

Speaker 1 (43:15):
But there's twenty million blocks out there. Be it'll be
you know, your kids, his lifetime before God the way, guys,
let's jump to a break. When we come back on
the other side, we've got a couple of fast questions
for you that that have come in from people instead.
It's good stuff and we'll continue our discussion. Wrong on
Target Broadcasting Life from the studio is of LAPD Firearms
and range. This is the one hour on Target special.

Speaker 2 (43:34):
We'll be right back.

Speaker 1 (43:38):
Fun fact. Our guest today mister Zach clin Kamas City prosecutor.
First concert he ever went to Huey Lewis and the news.

Speaker 3 (43:45):
Was I was in fourth grade. I think it was
a Bogarts in Cincinnati.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
Does it worry you? I know all this. Welcome back
to on Tario. I'm his there, joined to in the
LAPD twos. I got big ed to my right. He's
monitoring and Facebook and YouTube. But jayc is here as
always and our special guest, mister Zach client. So I
appreciative you being here. I should be remiss too. We
have a large studio audience. Hey, hey, you know it's

(44:12):
big when Mom's in the crowd and Paul Paul is
still here at this point, that's amazing.

Speaker 2 (44:16):
Here.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
Yeah, guys, we only have a couple minutes left. I
want to fill a couple of things out there. I
know that are important to you. We need to get
more officers on the street. Yes, you totally agree.

Speaker 3 (44:26):
Right, I'll we're completely aligned with that. Yeah, our officers
go run to run to run. I'm a big fan
of community policing. But you can't community police in the
way that you want to if our officers are just
going run to run to run. So we need more officers.
Our national average of officers per thousand people is below
the national average by an officer too, So let's hire
more officers.

Speaker 1 (44:43):
And I think Lieutenant Brian Steele, who's in the crowd
here today, would agree with that statement. Dv's horrible, and Columbus,
I don't. I mean, it's just been I don't know
if if it's the media or what, but it is
really bad. They seem to be getting worse. Your office
has tried to go and make it so everyone of
these violent ones has a half a million dollar bond,
but you're hitting up against issues with the judges again.

Speaker 3 (45:04):
We are, so we have drawn a line in the
sand on the worst of the worst TV offenses, the
ones that are just below a felony threshold or if
there's a gun present or nearby. We asked for a
half a million dollar bond. We've probably, unfortunately and since
we've announced this policy two years ago, roughly we probably
several hundred cases, and I think the judges have taken

(45:27):
us up on the five hundred thousand dollars bond maybe
six times, seven times.

Speaker 1 (45:31):
You have I mean, let us know. I mean, let's
get the word out. Let's get the word out of
who is letting these people back out. We've seen some
horrible ones that it's just it turned your stomach when
you see. And this one wasn't domestic violence. But I
think yesterday announced a a rape suspect who just got rearrested,
who've been arrested last year and was out out waiting

(45:54):
trial from last year rape. I mean we need to
collectively stand together. I mean, you yell whenever we can
do something to help in that regards A couple questions
from the studio audience and people who've questioned it before,
just quick hits on these as we're running out of time.
Should protesters be allowed to overtake the streets during the
course of protesting.

Speaker 3 (46:14):
I don't know what you mean by overtake the streets,
but I do think letting First Amendment protests go on
and march in the street peacefully as long as they
follow the direction of rerouted traffic to CPD.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
Yes, okay, so as long as it's an organized thing,
not a chaotic rioting.

Speaker 3 (46:29):
And CPD, by the way, is become a national or
slash international leader in handling first movie protests. They've done
a fantastic job.

Speaker 1 (46:36):
Yep. What do we do about car breakings? We got
to stop that and the proliferation of guns we falls
under more cops? Well yeah, I mean it just it
continues to go out and and to to piggyback on
this FLP Lodge number nine and us are going to
have a day where we hand out lock boxes. Love

(46:56):
to have you a part of that, I would, but
we need to What do we can do to stop them?

Speaker 3 (47:00):
Well, I think it's identifying the suspects, getting them arrested.
Most of them are juveniles and having a different level
accountability that's going on right now.

Speaker 1 (47:09):
Yeah, absolutely, you have aspirations of being the mayor.

Speaker 3 (47:13):
I think being mayor would be one heck of a job.
Right now, I'm the city attorney. I'm on the ballot
in ten days, and I look forward to getting reelected.

Speaker 1 (47:20):
You know, you said that almost identically to what Ry
O'Brien said. Ron, That is exactly what you said, did you. Yeah,
did you give him that line in the future if
you ever were to announce running from mayor, would you
do it on target?

Speaker 3 (47:36):
I mean what I guess it depends on whether I'm
invited back or not.

Speaker 1 (47:39):
Okay, Okay, I think I think you're going to get
invited back.

Speaker 4 (47:41):
We get invited back when we need to get some
people to get these answers fixed. Yeah, I mean, I
don't know what it's going to take to move this
up the line, to get these judges and the Felony
prosecution and involved in this and get them on the show,
to have the people here get the answers from them too.
We'd love to have the mayor on.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
Yeah, I mean we think. I mean, you did the
first steps. I mean coming here. I mean it's I mean,
we're all in the same boat together. We're all like minded.
We just got to come up with a solution, and
we owe it to the community as people in your
position as law enforcement, as gun sellers, we owe it
to the community to do all we can to uh
to make the community safe. Thank you so much for

(48:22):
coming on. Really appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (48:24):
It's been great.

Speaker 1 (48:25):
Thanks for wtv in for giving us the hour, Thanks
for listening. And next week, guys, we're going to be
back at it. Tons of news to get to one
other thing. One of our employees here, Julian, just got
announced yesterday that he passed the bar.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
We will be leaving

Speaker 1 (48:42):
Him all right,