Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yeah, coming up this weekend, mark's one year. Can you
believe a year has gone by since Butler Pennsylvania?
Speaker 2 (00:08):
No?
Speaker 1 (00:09):
And are then, you know, are then candidate for President
Donald Trump was shot. I cannot believe it's were coming
up on a year or July thirteenth.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I mean, no, it is Seriously, it doesn't feel like
it's been a year.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
It's crazy, right, I mean, it really does. And when
they say when they say time picks ups or the
like speeds up, boy, there's never a truer statement, you know,
never a truer statement. But there are six Secret Service
agents suspended over conduct with this. And Don Mahallack, ABC
News Law Enforcement contributor, retired senior Secret Service agent, is
(00:46):
joining us now out of Don is out of Philadelphia.
And on a side note, Don, did were you one
of the people that, unfortunately had to deal with the
I saw footage of trash lining the streets there. This
is a side note like, obviously not what you're covering,
but I'm sure you saw all that, and it looks
like they've gotten all that taken care of. But we
talked about Donn on the air and I was like,
(01:07):
holy Cali, can't imagine those neighborhoods in the smell coming
from that stuff.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Man, Thank god, thank god. I don't live in Philadelphia proper.
We live about thirty miles in North Facily, so had
no impact on me, but I felt terrible for the
people in Philadelphia.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Yeah, yeah, and yeah again, when I saw that, I
started thinking of people, I'm like, who do I never?
And then I thought of you. I go, oh, I
know he's out of there, but didn't realize you were
that far out. But God bless you because you almost
probably could smell it three miles away. Hopefully not, but yeah, crazy, Well,
good to know that you didn't have to deal with that.
(01:41):
And it looks like they got it all figured out too,
so good on them for that. So yeah, so yeah,
can you believe it? One year later, coming up on Sunday,
it's the one year anniversary where Trump ends up getting shot.
And now there were some Secret Service agents that were involved,
six of them to be exact, that have been suspen
So what do we got with this?
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Yeah? So Mark, they did an investigation, and unfortunately, the
government wheel turns slow when it comes to disciplinary issues,
and this is the end result of the discipline from
the Secret Services Internal affairs, or as they called an
inspection investigation of where they found, you know, what people
did wrong and what people were responsible for, and they
(02:25):
instituted suspensions for six of the individuals involved based upon
policy violations or performance violations. So you know, unfortunately it
took this long. I wish the Secret Service followed standard
shooting aftermath procedures, where as soon as the incident happens,
you put people on administrative leave, you investigate, and then
(02:47):
you clear or suspend based upon what the investigation says,
which means this would have been done last year. But
I guess the government wheels turned very very slow.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yeah, that's a no question about that. As some if
I could ask, as somebody who is a retired senior
Secret Service agent, do you agree with what has happened
here as far as the discipline here or the suspension
and all of those things.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
I'm not privy to all the facts of each individual case.
All I can say is that there probably were a
lot of people it needs to be held accountable for
the Butler incident, and I hope the agency did its
due diligence to make sure every single individual that needed
to be held accountable.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Was okay, I'm curious.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Is there any kind of appeals process for these agents
or is it take it or leave it scenario. You're suspended,
Either deal with that or you can leave secret service.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Now, there is an appeal process, and this is the
end result of that. So normally the first step is
the agency does an investigation and this is the federal
government wide. Then they make a proposal of discipline, and
then individuals have the right to appeal. That is an
appeal process. They go back and forth and then they'll
get the final determination of their appeal, which is what
we have here, is this is their final This is
(04:03):
the final determination of their appeal. So there's really nowhere
for the agents to go out after this.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Hey, when you see something like this happened a year ago,
does it How does it affect you as somebody who
used to do this? I mean, do you see that
and go, man, I'm put me in coach, or are
you going man, I'm glad I don't have to deal
with that anymore. I think I know the answer, but
I would love to hear how you process that.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Whenever you see this stuff, your heart breaks because you
want to be there, because you think you could help
or you could have helped, and you also put yourself
in the agent's positions that were there, having been there
multiple times in her career, and you know, all of us,
you know, in different situations, probably could have been in
that situation but for something that we either know happened
(04:52):
or didn't happen. And unfortunately for the folks in Butler,
the mistakes that occurred were taken advantage of by an
by the shooter and he was able to take his
shot at Trump. In reality, had they had all the
protection stuff covered that all the reports have outline, he
probably would have been stopped earlier on. But I'll also
(05:15):
say that the investigations showed that the local police identified
him ninety minutes prior, were communicating about him as suspicious
within their own text router, but never looped into Secret
Service until almost the very end, which was another criticism
of why were the local police texting separately and not
including the Secret Service. So that's one thing the Secret
Service has addressed also with some of their policy changes.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
I would think that Secret Service agents just as a
general rule, kind of fall on your sword kind of people.
So we messed up. This would regardless of who else
did what we messed up. Take the suspension, let's be
better next time. I would hope that that's the way
they take it. But those the Butler police not communicating
major issues for me. The elevated agents who saw the
(05:59):
guy on the roof and took way too long to
be If you're on a roof with a rifle at
a presidential event, I don't need the local police to
chime in. And if those officers took their suspension and
said this, I messed this up, and I'll get better
and come back, then that's the way I would expect
them to handle it.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Well. The Secret Service were at large is pretty much
a fall on your sword agency. You saw that after
the Kennedy assassination, the Reagan assassination, multiple other French jumper incidents,
you name it. The Secret Service is one of the
few agencies that says, yeah, we made a mistake, accepts responsibility,
and tries to work to correct the mistakes. But going
to your point about the individual on a roof and
(06:39):
the shooting, the Secret Service counter sniper team did range
in on him and fire, and I think it was
within thirty seconds twenty something second. But you know, the
public hast understand that even for the Secret Service with
the president, they still fall under a standard law enforcement
use of force rules and laws. So you can't just
shoot some buddy until you are positive that they pose
(07:02):
a threat. So those agents, this counter of sniper team,
the Secret Service count of sniper team, had to make
sure before they shot, which was pretty quick, that that
individual posed a threat to him And it wasn't just
some crazy person that decided to get on a roof
that was going to you know, hang a thrunt banner
or something.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yeah, it's fascinating. I could the whole process, the inside
part of the inside baseball that we're hearing right now
is really really fascinating to me at some point, I
don't know, And and forgive me if you already have,
but don you probably should write a book maybe or something, man,
because I feel like you have a lot of really
(07:45):
really interesting stories, you know, types of things that and
I guess there's only so much you're probably able to divulge,
quite frankly, but fascinating, this whole, this whole situation.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Thanks Mark, I appreciate it. I just it's a terrible situation,
you know, was terrible. What the nation had to face
in the aftermath of Butler. I feel bad for the
agents that were there, the ones that were involved, and
I feel terrible for the ones that were disciplined. It's
a real morale hit. It's almost as if you're being
accused of failing, and which in this case, of course,
they're worse failures. But you know, you take it very personally,
(08:19):
and I'm sure the agents evolved taking it very personally.
I just hope that once this suspension process is over,
they can move on and they can get back to
doing what they do best. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Don Mahallake, ABC News Law enforcement contributor, retired senior Secret
Service agent, Don, thank you very much for your time
today and your insight.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Appreciate you, brother, Thanks, Mark, appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
All right, we'll say yah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
The local law enforcement not looping them in with a
ninety minute I don't get advanced notice, is BS like why?
Speaker 1 (08:50):
And that feels it's inside.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
I was going to put him on the spot because
I don't want Yeah, I don't want to spind that,
but that department needs to be thoroughly investigated and from
the top down they need some both taking.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
I dare say any of the people that were involved
that day at all are Yeah, they're clearly since they're
being suspended, that means they're still employed. But I guarantee
either nowhere near the President's detail, nowhere near it. And
that is for me, affirming that there is real concern
(09:25):
that it was an inside job. The way there are
so many breakdowns that it's not typical of something like
the Secret Service. That is a I mean the training,
the hours, the type of thing that is involved with
that from the beginning all the way to when you
are a Secret Service agent, let alone on the President's detail.
(09:49):
Just to get in Secret Service alone is unstringe unbelievable
to get in there. Then you're on the President's detail.
And so we saw all we saw firsthand and watched
how this whole thing is. I don't know how any
of these guys that are connected with us are still
even employed. It's really a head scratch.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Yeah. I don't know the Butler County sheriff. I've never
even heard his name, I don't think, but I'd love
to know. That's Butler County, Pennsylvania, not Ohio. Yeah, because
I know county.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Yeah, Yeah, Sheriff K. Jones.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Are you kidding, and it wouldn't have happened in Bundler County, Ohio.
I'm just saying, yeah, he needs, you know, like I said,
thorough investigation. I don't know if it's and the partisan people.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
Out there, he goes, you are a shaman. Yeah, Trump
loving right wingkins saring no, if it was Barack Obama,
Joe Biden or Kamila Kamala whatever, Harris, I would be
saying the same thing. The President of the United States
is to be protected by the Secret Service in law
enforcement at all costs.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
And that was ridiculousness.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
And it's an interesting dynamic as well, because he had
the detail even though he was a candidate, he clearly
was a former president, so it's there are a lot
of boxes that should have been checked that just were
not for that day. So it's not like it was
just a presidential candidate. And not that that diminishes if
(11:13):
they're just a candidate standing up there on stage, but
the fact that he's a former president and then also
a current presidential candidate, I mean, there are a couple
things that make this whole thing even a head scratcher.
And look, I don't think it's out of line to say,
there could have been some sort of inside thing here.
(11:33):
I don't know, but I mean, how else do you go? Boy,
It was a catastrophic failure from the start.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
In ninety minutes in advance, Yeah, reports coming in. There's
a man with a rifle walking across. There's a man
with a rifle climbing. They knew this ninety minutes in advance. Crazy,
don't tell me that's not an inside job.
Yeah, coming up this weekend, mark's one year. Can you
believe a year has gone by since Butler Pennsylvania?
Speaker 2 (00:08):
No?
Speaker 1 (00:09):
And are then, you know, are then candidate for President
Donald Trump was shot. I cannot believe it's were coming
up on a year or July thirteenth.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I mean, no, it is Seriously, it doesn't feel like
it's been a year.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
It's crazy, right, I mean, it really does. And when
they say when they say time picks ups or the
like speeds up, boy, there's never a truer statement, you know,
never a truer statement. But there are six Secret Service
agents suspended over conduct with this. And Don Mahallack, ABC
News Law Enforcement contributor, retired senior Secret Service agent, is
(00:46):
joining us now out of Don is out of Philadelphia.
And on a side note, Don, did were you one
of the people that, unfortunately had to deal with the
I saw footage of trash lining the streets there. This
is a side note like, obviously not what you're covering,
but I'm sure you saw all that, and it looks
like they've gotten all that taken care of. But we
talked about Donn on the air and I was like,
(01:07):
holy Cali, can't imagine those neighborhoods in the smell coming
from that stuff.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Man, Thank god, thank god. I don't live in Philadelphia proper.
We live about thirty miles in North Facily, so had
no impact on me, but I felt terrible for the
people in Philadelphia.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Yeah, yeah, and yeah again, when I saw that, I
started thinking of people, I'm like, who do I never?
And then I thought of you. I go, oh, I
know he's out of there, but didn't realize you were
that far out. But God bless you because you almost
probably could smell it three miles away. Hopefully not, but yeah, crazy, Well,
good to know that you didn't have to deal with that.
(01:41):
And it looks like they got it all figured out too,
so good on them for that. So yeah, so yeah,
can you believe it? One year later, coming up on Sunday,
it's the one year anniversary where Trump ends up getting shot.
And now there were some Secret Service agents that were involved,
six of them to be exact, that have been suspen
So what do we got with this?
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Yeah? So Mark, they did an investigation, and unfortunately, the
government wheel turns slow when it comes to disciplinary issues,
and this is the end result of the discipline from
the Secret Services Internal affairs, or as they called an
inspection investigation of where they found, you know, what people
did wrong and what people were responsible for, and they
(02:25):
instituted suspensions for six of the individuals involved based upon
policy violations or performance violations. So you know, unfortunately it
took this long. I wish the Secret Service followed standard
shooting aftermath procedures, where as soon as the incident happens,
you put people on administrative leave, you investigate, and then
(02:47):
you clear or suspend based upon what the investigation says,
which means this would have been done last year. But
I guess the government wheels turned very very slow.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yeah, that's a no question about that. As some if
I could ask, as somebody who is a retired senior
Secret Service agent, do you agree with what has happened
here as far as the discipline here or the suspension
and all of those things.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
I'm not privy to all the facts of each individual case.
All I can say is that there probably were a
lot of people it needs to be held accountable for
the Butler incident, and I hope the agency did its
due diligence to make sure every single individual that needed
to be held accountable.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Was okay, I'm curious.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Is there any kind of appeals process for these agents
or is it take it or leave it scenario. You're suspended,
Either deal with that or you can leave secret service.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Now, there is an appeal process, and this is the
end result of that. So normally the first step is
the agency does an investigation and this is the federal
government wide. Then they make a proposal of discipline, and
then individuals have the right to appeal. That is an
appeal process. They go back and forth and then they'll
get the final determination of their appeal, which is what
we have here, is this is their final This is
(04:03):
the final determination of their appeal. So there's really nowhere
for the agents to go out after this.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Hey, when you see something like this happened a year ago,
does it How does it affect you as somebody who
used to do this? I mean, do you see that
and go, man, I'm put me in coach, or are
you going man, I'm glad I don't have to deal
with that anymore. I think I know the answer, but
I would love to hear how you process that.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Whenever you see this stuff, your heart breaks because you
want to be there, because you think you could help
or you could have helped, and you also put yourself
in the agent's positions that were there, having been there
multiple times in her career, and you know, all of us,
you know, in different situations, probably could have been in
that situation but for something that we either know happened
(04:52):
or didn't happen. And unfortunately for the folks in Butler,
the mistakes that occurred were taken advantage of by an
by the shooter and he was able to take his
shot at Trump. In reality, had they had all the
protection stuff covered that all the reports have outline, he
probably would have been stopped earlier on. But I'll also
(05:15):
say that the investigations showed that the local police identified
him ninety minutes prior, were communicating about him as suspicious
within their own text router, but never looped into Secret
Service until almost the very end, which was another criticism
of why were the local police texting separately and not
including the Secret Service. So that's one thing the Secret
Service has addressed also with some of their policy changes.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
I would think that Secret Service agents just as a
general rule, kind of fall on your sword kind of people.
So we messed up. This would regardless of who else
did what we messed up. Take the suspension, let's be
better next time. I would hope that that's the way
they take it. But those the Butler police not communicating
major issues for me. The elevated agents who saw the
(05:59):
guy on the roof and took way too long to
be If you're on a roof with a rifle at
a presidential event, I don't need the local police to
chime in. And if those officers took their suspension and
said this, I messed this up, and I'll get better
and come back, then that's the way I would expect
them to handle it.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Well. The Secret Service were at large is pretty much
a fall on your sword agency. You saw that after
the Kennedy assassination, the Reagan assassination, multiple other French jumper incidents,
you name it. The Secret Service is one of the
few agencies that says, yeah, we made a mistake, accepts responsibility,
and tries to work to correct the mistakes. But going
to your point about the individual on a roof and
(06:39):
the shooting, the Secret Service counter sniper team did range
in on him and fire, and I think it was
within thirty seconds twenty something second. But you know, the
public hast understand that even for the Secret Service with
the president, they still fall under a standard law enforcement
use of force rules and laws. So you can't just
shoot some buddy until you are positive that they pose
(07:02):
a threat. So those agents, this counter of sniper team,
the Secret Service count of sniper team, had to make
sure before they shot, which was pretty quick, that that
individual posed a threat to him And it wasn't just
some crazy person that decided to get on a roof
that was going to you know, hang a thrunt banner
or something.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yeah, it's fascinating. I could the whole process, the inside
part of the inside baseball that we're hearing right now
is really really fascinating to me at some point, I
don't know, And and forgive me if you already have,
but don you probably should write a book maybe or something, man,
because I feel like you have a lot of really
(07:45):
really interesting stories, you know, types of things that and
I guess there's only so much you're probably able to divulge,
quite frankly, but fascinating, this whole, this whole situation.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Thanks Mark, I appreciate it. I just it's a terrible situation,
you know, was terrible. What the nation had to face
in the aftermath of Butler. I feel bad for the
agents that were there, the ones that were involved, and
I feel terrible for the ones that were disciplined. It's
a real morale hit. It's almost as if you're being
accused of failing, and which in this case, of course,
they're worse failures. But you know, you take it very personally,
(08:19):
and I'm sure the agents evolved taking it very personally.
I just hope that once this suspension process is over,
they can move on and they can get back to
doing what they do best. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Don Mahallake, ABC News Law enforcement contributor, retired senior Secret
Service agent, Don, thank you very much for your time
today and your insight.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Appreciate you, brother, Thanks, Mark, appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
All right, we'll say yah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
The local law enforcement not looping them in with a
ninety minute I don't get advanced notice, is BS like why?
Speaker 1 (08:50):
And that feels it's inside.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
I was going to put him on the spot because
I don't want Yeah, I don't want to spind that,
but that department needs to be thoroughly investigated and from
the top down they need some both taking.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
I dare say any of the people that were involved
that day at all are Yeah, they're clearly since they're
being suspended, that means they're still employed. But I guarantee
either nowhere near the President's detail, nowhere near it. And
that is for me, affirming that there is real concern
(09:25):
that it was an inside job. The way there are
so many breakdowns that it's not typical of something like
the Secret Service. That is a I mean the training,
the hours, the type of thing that is involved with
that from the beginning all the way to when you
are a Secret Service agent, let alone on the President's detail.
(09:49):
Just to get in Secret Service alone is unstringe unbelievable
to get in there. Then you're on the President's detail.
And so we saw all we saw firsthand and watched
how this whole thing is. I don't know how any
of these guys that are connected with us are still
even employed. It's really a head scratch.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Yeah. I don't know the Butler County sheriff. I've never
even heard his name, I don't think, but I'd love
to know. That's Butler County, Pennsylvania, not Ohio. Yeah, because
I know county.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Yeah, Yeah, Sheriff K. Jones.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Are you kidding, and it wouldn't have happened in Bundler County, Ohio.
I'm just saying, yeah, he needs, you know, like I said,
thorough investigation. I don't know if it's and the partisan people.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
Out there, he goes, you are a shaman. Yeah, Trump
loving right wingkins saring no, if it was Barack Obama,
Joe Biden or Kamila Kamala whatever, Harris, I would be
saying the same thing. The President of the United States
is to be protected by the Secret Service in law
enforcement at all costs.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
And that was ridiculousness.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
And it's an interesting dynamic as well, because he had
the detail even though he was a candidate, he clearly
was a former president, so it's there are a lot
of boxes that should have been checked that just were
not for that day. So it's not like it was
just a presidential candidate. And not that that diminishes if
(11:13):
they're just a candidate standing up there on stage, but
the fact that he's a former president and then also
a current presidential candidate, I mean, there are a couple
things that make this whole thing even a head scratcher.
And look, I don't think it's out of line to say,
there could have been some sort of inside thing here.
(11:33):
I don't know, but I mean, how else do you go? Boy,
It was a catastrophic failure from the start.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
In ninety minutes in advance, Yeah, reports coming in. There's
a man with a rifle walking across. There's a man
with a rifle climbing. They knew this ninety minutes in advance. Crazy,
don't tell me that's not an inside job.
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