Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
He is host of for the defense Brad Kafel, defense
attorney here in town. Welcome again to the Mark Blazer Show.
Thanks for jumping on. It's been a while.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
It has been a while. Always great to be on
with you in Ohio's best afternoon drive.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Oh that's so nice of you. Thank you. I have
to send payment now, okay, but I'm all right, I'm
okay with that.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
So yeah, it was interesting because you sent me a
note saying, you know, the Ohio Supreme Court today they
had a case that was pretty interesting.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
It involves stalking.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
But is this in the sense that most people when
they hear stalking, you know, it's this egregious thing that
kind of pops.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Into your mind. And this isn't necessarily so much something
like that.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Is it not at all? Two interesting things about this case,
and then I'll set the table. Number One, this involves
social media. You know, you're out there on Facebook or
Instagram and you get hit up from someone in the past,
right last from the past. They check in on you,
how you doing. And the second thing is, I'm really
(01:01):
surprised this went all the way to the highest Supreme Court.
I'm not surprised the Supreme court ruled the way it did.
But here's what everyone needs to understand. There's a guy
from Dayton who reconnected, or attempted to reconnect with a
woman he went to elementary school with. They never knew
each other, they never spoke back then, just strange, out
(01:24):
of the blue. More than a decade later, he starts
posting strange comments on her Instagram, professing his love for her,
calling her baby girl, asking if he'd show she'd show
him videos of her home all right, She ignores them.
A few weeks later, he shows up uninvited at her
(01:44):
apartment complex, knocking on her apartment door and even, according
to her, tried to turn the doorknob to get in.
Now she's a mom, she's got a little girl. She
hides her nine year old daughter in a closet. She
calls the police and the police show up. The guy
(02:05):
left by the time the police get there. The police
track him down. They're like, dude, what are you doing?
He said, it's harmless. I just posted some social media messages,
but I do a little pop by visit see how
mailed friend was doing. And the police said, she doesn't
want to talk to you, leave her alone. Well, he
couldn't he sent out some more social media posts to her.
(02:29):
She wound up changing her entire lifestyle. She got a
she got a new she got a new place to live,
she put cameras outside her apartment, she avoided being home alone.
It was just whatever, just freak the heck out of her.
So he gets convicted in a Dayton court, he goes
(02:52):
to the Court of Appeals, and then the case winds
up going to the Highest Supreme Court. The Highest Supreme
Court said that if there is a pattern of causing
someone mental distress, two or more instances is a pattern,
and if the victim says it caused mental distress, that's
(03:14):
about it. So the Highest Supreme Court really lowered the
bar for men and women, boys and girls to get
charged with this crime evaggravated menacing. It's a misdemeanor. On
the next twin it can be a felony. So it's
an escalating offense. So it's a big deal because everyone's
(03:35):
posting crap out there to each other. But if you
slide up on someone's THEMS or hit them up on
Facebook and they don't respond and you keep peppering them,
you wander into some potential territory, and he's like, look,
that was harmless. I didn't mean to cause this distress her.
The problem, the real fault from here that everyone needs
(03:57):
to realize is once you're told leave the person alone,
you have to leave them alone. It was the next
contact that he made that he made to her after
the police said knock it off. He just couldn't help himself.
Most of these Vice Supreme Court Supreme Court decision today.
And you just got to be careful about commenting on
people on social media.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Yeah, you know, and we've all I don't know, I
guess I as far as we've all seen people that
are from our past, whether it be I gotta be honest,
I don't.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
I didn't.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
I haven't seen anybody like from elementary school that I
would remember or what have you.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
But as far as like.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
High school or whatever, certainly we will see that on
social media, especially depending on the circles, right, I mean,
you get to suggest the friends suggestions, Hey, this person
is based on friends you're currently you know, friends with,
and it could.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Be some other people from school or what have you.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
This one to me, you know the fact that he
goes there, Brad and you know she's claiming he tries
to turn her doorknob. I I feel like, uh, I mean,
this is creepified. And this guy it sounds like, you know,
he's not taking any kind of social cues from her,
which is like, you know, basically not interested in the
fact that she changed her entire life.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
I mean, where do you come down on when you
see this? Are you like? Yeah? I mean that's that's
the world we live in.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Social media, man, I maintain social media Brad is like,
is the devil?
Speaker 3 (05:25):
It's it's it can be so evil.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Certainly, it can really help in day to day, especially
in what you do as a defense attorney, and then
what I do on the radio, it can help. But man,
I feel like people who are lonely or whatever, this
is where they can get in big trouble with this
kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Yeah, it's creeper central. You're able to get out of
your parents' basement without getting out of your parents' basement
And uh yeah, I mean, look, I don't I didn't
read the truth frand script. I don't know if he
denied trying to turn the doorknob, but that's fact. The
court went with h But again, it surprised me that
the highest Supreme Court took this case because you know,
(06:03):
I've tried to get some cases that I thought had
a lot more constitutional importance to Ohio than this, and
they've said no. But this one they took, and they
lowered the hurdle. For thirty thirty one years of doing
criminal law, we've always told our clients, as long as
you don't threaten the other person, it's you're just being
(06:27):
a nuisance. But now you have from a legal standpoint,
according to the Supreme Court, it doesn't have to involve threats.
So Ohio's menacing by stalking law says if you engage
in a pattern of conduct which is described as two
or more instances in a close period of time that
you know or should know would cause the other person
(06:51):
to fear harm, physical harm, or serious mental distress. Normally,
it's that serious mental distress where the complaining party is
going to fall short. And that's normally where it looks
like you can't just be annoyed, they can't just be getaway.
There's got to it's got to rise the level of
(07:13):
serious mental distress.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
And then this, this person, this this lady, this victim
took dramatic steps to secure her daughter and herself. But
she didn't go into counseling, you know she. I don't.
I didn't read in the transcript that they introduced any
therapy records or prescriptions free and anxiety. She probably did.
(07:36):
But the bottom line is when someone says knock it off, stop,
don't untact me. You have to stop, you don't. They
don't need to wait to call the police. The next
message after that, coupled with they're causing me mental distress,
you wind up in court. You get hit with a
restraining order or protection order. Those bad boys can last
(07:58):
up to five years in If you're a TSA pre
check or you've got clear, or you want to try
to get global entry, if you're frequent traveler, all that
stuff's going to get stripped away. If you have a
perfectional or fought against you and you're a gun owner,
you're not going to be able to possess guns. So
this is not an offense, that's just a free inch tut,
(08:19):
don't worry about it. This is now very easy to
commit and the consequences in your life civilian life are
are huge.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
So you're saying this latest with the ruling of the
Highest Supreme court.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
It's very different from what you believe to be the
line between free speech and criminal behavior.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
For it correct, it's very it's very victim oriented. So
what I would say to individuals who consider themselves to
be victims or potential victims, trust your instincts, document everything taught,
contact law enforcement early, let them know, put them on
notice for everyone else. Remember than online interactions do have
(09:02):
real world legal consequences, and this is now a new
window into a legal, new real world legal consequence. If
someone isn't responding, do you stop contacting them? Persistence might
feel harmless to you, but if it causes fear distress
in the other person, it could comes a criminal matter
(09:23):
very fast. And that is in the eye and the
mind of the alleged victim.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Man.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
How much easier too in this day and age Brad
with when we're talking to Brad koufl a defense attorney
and a host of for the defense here on six
to ten WUTV and I mean, how much easier in
this world of texting and social media where screen capture everything,
you are dead to rights, even though I guess the
ability to alter it is getting easier and make it
(09:51):
look like he said something you didn't, but then it's
your word versus hers, and.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
I think when you get a.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Female involved, And I could be completely wrong on this,
but man, that's just one thing I've always thought from
the very beginning way back, and maybe it was something
my parents kind of instilled in me too.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
It's just like when there's women.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Involved in something like that, boy, law enforcement, your place
of business, wherever you work, go all the way down
the list, everyone pays a little bit more attention, it
seems like.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
And did she even go the route of a restraining
order or something like that? You don't need it.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
It sounds like, no, the court did that. As soon
as you get charged, that comes with a restraining order,
and a lot of times it comes with an a restaurant.
You know, the police. If you're a jerk to the cops,
they have discretion. They can just arrest you. And then
when you go to court, you're going to get hit
with a protection order as a condition of your release.
(10:45):
And then if you get convicted like this guy did,
if it happens again, it's probably going to be a
fouling and that's a life changer.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Yeah, well, it sounds like this is cut and dry
with regard to the way Ohio at least is proceeding
at this level, and you're saying this is different, way,
different than what you've been involved with.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
I recommend I'll probably recoon of my clients. Now, I
rent one of those those planes that pull the flags
around like on game day and just say I love
you Marie or whatever. You know. I think that's just
a little bit harder. It'd be less menacing. But if
you want to get the message to them with being
less menacing, you know, I think for like five or
(11:24):
six hundred bucks, you can just get one of those
planes and pull the flag behind it, you know, the
big long sign and five.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Or six hundred bucks. Much less expensive than hire an attorney, right.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
At least one tence. Yes, And it's funny, but anyway,
it's it's not a joking matter. There is an uptick
in and homicides and assaults, and a lot of it
is getting generated by ray online rage. So we've we
have road rage, now we have online rage. And they're
the younger generation, of which I have four, They're a
(12:00):
lot more sensitive.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
He's careful.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
He's hosted for the defense. Brad Kopfel, a defense attorney,
here in town. And Brad, what do you got coming
up on for the defense Friday evening at six D Day?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
There's a D day Trump the Trump administration. They have
something big under wraps. Cash Betel's been very quiet. We
know there are referrals to grand jury that involves huge
political names, huge names from the White House down. I
think there's a D Day coming. We're not exactly sure where,
we're not exactly sure when, but there will be a big,
(12:37):
big historical upsetting of the deep state. And Donald Trump
is the whistleblower in chief.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
This is fascinating to me.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
And as all of this starts to unfold, I'm going
to have you back on if that's cool, so we
can have you kind of explain it out for us
and all of that, because I can't wait for this
to get started.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
I'll be honest.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
I'm heading the DC this weekend. I'm taking my son,
he said in law school. We're gonna go to DC.
We're gonna go see our Senator Bernie Marino see if
we can get some inside information on what's going on.
If I do, and it's anything I can share, I'll
let you know. Man.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Very cool, Brad Kaffel host of for the Defense here
on six to ten WTV, and Brad, thanks for jumping.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
On with me today. Appreciate you man.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
My pleasure trafficking weather together from day and night, heating
and cooling products and temperature pro Columbus. Here's Eddie z Ellick.
He is host of for the defense Brad Kafel, defense
attorney here in town. Welcome again to the Mark Blazer Show.
Thanks for jumping on. It's been a while.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
It has been a while. Always great to be on
with you in Ohio's best afternoon drive.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Oh that's so nice of you. Thank you. I have
to send payment now, okay, but I'm all right, I'm
okay with that.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
So yeah, it was interesting because you sent me a
note saying, you know, the Ohio Supreme Court today they
had a case that was pretty interesting.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
It involves stalking.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
But is this in the sense that most people when
they hear stalking, you know, it's this egregious thing that
kind of pops.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Into your mind. And this isn't necessarily so much something
like that.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Is it not at all? Two interesting things about this case,
and then I'll set the table. Number One, this involves
social media. You know, you're out there on Facebook or
Instagram and you get hit up from someone in the past,
right last from the past. They check in on you,
how you doing. And the second thing is, I'm really
(01:01):
surprised this went all the way to the highest Supreme Court.
I'm not surprised the Supreme court ruled the way it did.
But here's what everyone needs to understand. There's a guy
from Dayton who reconnected, or attempted to reconnect with a
woman he went to elementary school with. They never knew
each other, they never spoke back then, just strange, out
(01:24):
of the blue. More than a decade later, he starts
posting strange comments on her Instagram, professing his love for her,
calling her baby girl, asking if he'd show she'd show
him videos of her home all right, She ignores them.
A few weeks later, he shows up uninvited at her
(01:44):
apartment complex, knocking on her apartment door and even, according
to her, tried to turn the doorknob to get in.
Now she's a mom, she's got a little girl. She
hides her nine year old daughter in a closet. She
calls the police and the police show up. The guy
(02:05):
left by the time the police get there. The police
track him down. They're like, dude, what are you doing?
He said, it's harmless. I just posted some social media messages,
but I do a little pop by visit see how
mailed friend was doing. And the police said, she doesn't
want to talk to you, leave her alone. Well, he
couldn't he sent out some more social media posts to her.
(02:29):
She wound up changing her entire lifestyle. She got a
she got a new she got a new place to live,
she put cameras outside her apartment, she avoided being home alone.
It was just whatever, just freak the heck out of her.
So he gets convicted in a Dayton court, he goes
(02:52):
to the Court of Appeals, and then the case winds
up going to the Highest Supreme Court. The Highest Supreme
Court said that if there is a pattern of causing
someone mental distress, two or more instances is a pattern,
and if the victim says it caused mental distress, that's
(03:14):
about it. So the Highest Supreme Court really lowered the
bar for men and women, boys and girls to get
charged with this crime evaggravated menacing. It's a misdemeanor. On
the next twin it can be a felony. So it's
an escalating offense. So it's a big deal because everyone's
(03:35):
posting crap out there to each other. But if you
slide up on someone's THEMS or hit them up on
Facebook and they don't respond and you keep peppering them,
you wander into some potential territory, and he's like, look,
that was harmless. I didn't mean to cause this distress her.
The problem, the real fault from here that everyone needs
(03:57):
to realize is once you're told leave the person alone,
you have to leave them alone. It was the next
contact that he made that he made to her after
the police said knock it off. He just couldn't help himself.
Most of these Vice Supreme Court Supreme Court decision today.
And you just got to be careful about commenting on
people on social media.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Yeah, you know, and we've all I don't know, I
guess I as far as we've all seen people that
are from our past, whether it be I gotta be honest,
I don't.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
I didn't.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
I haven't seen anybody like from elementary school that I
would remember or what have you.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
But as far as like.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
High school or whatever, certainly we will see that on
social media, especially depending on the circles, right, I mean,
you get to suggest the friends suggestions, Hey, this person
is based on friends you're currently you know, friends with,
and it could.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Be some other people from school or what have you.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
This one to me, you know the fact that he
goes there, Brad and you know she's claiming he tries
to turn her doorknob. I I feel like, uh, I mean,
this is creepified. And this guy it sounds like, you know,
he's not taking any kind of social cues from her,
which is like, you know, basically not interested in the
fact that she changed her entire life.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
I mean, where do you come down on when you
see this? Are you like? Yeah? I mean that's that's
the world we live in.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Social media, man, I maintain social media Brad is like,
is the devil?
Speaker 3 (05:25):
It's it's it can be so evil.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Certainly, it can really help in day to day, especially
in what you do as a defense attorney, and then
what I do on the radio, it can help. But man,
I feel like people who are lonely or whatever, this
is where they can get in big trouble with this
kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Yeah, it's creeper central. You're able to get out of
your parents' basement without getting out of your parents' basement
And uh yeah, I mean, look, I don't I didn't
read the truth frand script. I don't know if he
denied trying to turn the doorknob, but that's fact. The
court went with h But again, it surprised me that
the highest Supreme Court took this case because you know,
(06:03):
I've tried to get some cases that I thought had
a lot more constitutional importance to Ohio than this, and
they've said no. But this one they took, and they
lowered the hurdle. For thirty thirty one years of doing
criminal law, we've always told our clients, as long as
you don't threaten the other person, it's you're just being
(06:27):
a nuisance. But now you have from a legal standpoint,
according to the Supreme Court, it doesn't have to involve threats.
So Ohio's menacing by stalking law says if you engage
in a pattern of conduct which is described as two
or more instances in a close period of time that
you know or should know would cause the other person
(06:51):
to fear harm, physical harm, or serious mental distress. Normally,
it's that serious mental distress where the complaining party is
going to fall short. And that's normally where it looks
like you can't just be annoyed, they can't just be getaway.
There's got to it's got to rise the level of
(07:13):
serious mental distress.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
And then this, this person, this this lady, this victim
took dramatic steps to secure her daughter and herself. But
she didn't go into counseling, you know she. I don't.
I didn't read in the transcript that they introduced any
therapy records or prescriptions free and anxiety. She probably did.
(07:36):
But the bottom line is when someone says knock it off, stop,
don't untact me. You have to stop, you don't. They
don't need to wait to call the police. The next
message after that, coupled with they're causing me mental distress,
you wind up in court. You get hit with a
restraining order or protection order. Those bad boys can last
(07:58):
up to five years in If you're a TSA pre
check or you've got clear, or you want to try
to get global entry, if you're frequent traveler, all that
stuff's going to get stripped away. If you have a
perfectional or fought against you and you're a gun owner,
you're not going to be able to possess guns. So
this is not an offense, that's just a free inch tut,
(08:19):
don't worry about it. This is now very easy to
commit and the consequences in your life civilian life are
are huge.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
So you're saying this latest with the ruling of the
Highest Supreme court.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
It's very different from what you believe to be the
line between free speech and criminal behavior.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
For it correct, it's very it's very victim oriented. So
what I would say to individuals who consider themselves to
be victims or potential victims, trust your instincts, document everything taught,
contact law enforcement early, let them know, put them on
notice for everyone else. Remember than online interactions do have
(09:02):
real world legal consequences, and this is now a new
window into a legal, new real world legal consequence. If
someone isn't responding, do you stop contacting them? Persistence might
feel harmless to you, but if it causes fear distress
in the other person, it could comes a criminal matter
(09:23):
very fast. And that is in the eye and the
mind of the alleged victim.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Man.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
How much easier too in this day and age Brad
with when we're talking to Brad koufl a defense attorney
and a host of for the defense here on six
to ten WUTV and I mean, how much easier in
this world of texting and social media where screen capture everything,
you are dead to rights, even though I guess the
ability to alter it is getting easier and make it
(09:51):
look like he said something you didn't, but then it's
your word versus hers, and.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
I think when you get a.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Female involved, And I could be completely wrong on this,
but man, that's just one thing I've always thought from
the very beginning way back, and maybe it was something
my parents kind of instilled in me too.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
It's just like when there's women.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Involved in something like that, boy, law enforcement, your place
of business, wherever you work, go all the way down
the list, everyone pays a little bit more attention, it
seems like.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
And did she even go the route of a restraining
order or something like that? You don't need it.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
It sounds like, no, the court did that. As soon
as you get charged, that comes with a restraining order,
and a lot of times it comes with an a restaurant.
You know, the police. If you're a jerk to the cops,
they have discretion. They can just arrest you. And then
when you go to court, you're going to get hit
with a protection order as a condition of your release.
(10:45):
And then if you get convicted like this guy did,
if it happens again, it's probably going to be a
fouling and that's a life changer.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Yeah, well, it sounds like this is cut and dry
with regard to the way Ohio at least is proceeding
at this level, and you're saying this is different, way,
different than what you've been involved with.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
I recommend I'll probably recoon of my clients. Now, I
rent one of those those planes that pull the flags
around like on game day and just say I love
you Marie or whatever. You know. I think that's just
a little bit harder. It'd be less menacing. But if
you want to get the message to them with being
less menacing, you know, I think for like five or
(11:24):
six hundred bucks, you can just get one of those
planes and pull the flag behind it, you know, the
big long sign and five.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Or six hundred bucks. Much less expensive than hire an attorney, right.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
At least one tence. Yes, And it's funny, but anyway,
it's it's not a joking matter. There is an uptick
in and homicides and assaults, and a lot of it
is getting generated by ray online rage. So we've we
have road rage, now we have online rage. And they're
the younger generation, of which I have four, They're a
(12:00):
lot more sensitive.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
He's careful.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
He's hosted for the defense. Brad Kopfel, a defense attorney,
here in town. And Brad, what do you got coming
up on for the defense Friday evening at six D Day?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
There's a D day Trump the Trump administration. They have
something big under wraps. Cash Betel's been very quiet. We
know there are referrals to grand jury that involves huge
political names, huge names from the White House down. I
think there's a D Day coming. We're not exactly sure where,
we're not exactly sure when, but there will be a big,
(12:37):
big historical upsetting of the deep state. And Donald Trump
is the whistleblower in chief.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
This is fascinating to me.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
And as all of this starts to unfold, I'm going
to have you back on if that's cool, so we
can have you kind of explain it out for us
and all of that, because I can't wait for this
to get started.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
I'll be honest.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
I'm heading the DC this weekend. I'm taking my son,
he said in law school. We're gonna go to DC.
We're gonna go see our Senator Bernie Marino see if
we can get some inside information on what's going on.
If I do, and it's anything I can share, I'll
let you know. Man.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Very cool, Brad Kaffel host of for the Defense here
on six to ten WTV, and Brad, thanks for jumping.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
On with me today. Appreciate you man.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
My pleasure trafficking weather together from day and night, heating
and cooling products and temperature pro Columbus. Here's Eddie z Ellick.
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Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!