Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, thank you for listening.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
State Auditor Keith Faber in studio with us and UH
auditor Faber.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Good to see you again. Thank you for coming in.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
It's awesome to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Thank you, thank you. I really appreciate it. You know,
I was just showing you and Matt, who's with you.
You know, some of my footage from the TPC Sawgrass
the stadium course there. It's a Pete Die masterpiece there
where the Players Championship has played every year, and we're
talking about, you know, golf and all of this, and
(00:30):
I was asking you, auditor favor if you play, but
it seems to me like you know the game, but
you don't really play.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
I played at one point and my game got consistently worse.
And a friend of mine's brother is a actually golf pro,
is a PGA pro. Oh wow, and he actually teaches
it a course in Florida, and so we played around
with him. I said, hey, give me some tips. Yeah,
and after about four holes he said, here's the tip.
Quit take lessons, and so I'm taking him.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Up on that. Over over a period of years, I
play a couple of times.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
A year, usually in a at a tournament or something
you need to go to.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
An outing or something.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
I think my last round actually might have been here
in Columbus at Double Eagle.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Oh wow.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
It was a very good round until I got to
about hole fourteen and then got stuck, stung by ground
hornets one of the sand traps. My balls end up
in the sand a lot. I like the beach, and
so I was on the hole and all of a
sudden got stung about five times and that ended my
golf day.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Oh but I'm not allergic or anything. It just you know,
wasn't pleasant.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Right.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
But as I'm doing the hula on the on the green,
dancing off wasps and stripping off clothes to get the
wasp out of my shirt.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Oh my god, it was so fun. It was a
fun experience.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
But yeah, it's a great course, and it's a great experience,
particularly when you're out with a group of friends or
a group of people where you can just socialize.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
And I've been in a couple of outings there at
Double Eagle with Congressman Balderson. He'll have like a fundraise,
you know something there, like some sort of an outing,
and I've played a couple of times there.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
That's up the street from where I live.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Actually I live like five maybe eight six minutes somewhere
around there from that, and so what an amazing that's
a very special place too.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
And the day before they were talking about when we
were there last year.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
He's like, yeah, Jason Day was just up here yesterday
working on his game because he's a member there and
of course in the PGA Tour.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
But it is a fabulous course and certainly a course
well beyond my skill level.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Yeah, but you know what, you know, depending on which
teas you play there, it's not it's really not that
it's not that hard of a course. It's it can
be long if you're going to back up, and then
it becomes a little more of an undertaking.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
But it's a it's it's.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
A fair course, and that's that's the thing. I mean,
you play like you know, I played Mierfield every year too.
Because they do media out there. Other than that, they
want nothing to do. They're like, you stay away from here,
you you know, like, don't even get close to Meerfield.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Everybody's welcome, but you.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Blazer like, stay away. But that's a course that that's
not desire. It's not to be friendly for the people
who are playing it for the members. That is a
tournament course, and oh yeah, we happen to have members here.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
Well.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Double Eagle is a little more.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Friendly with regard to that, But TPC Sawgrass is That's
another one of those.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
If you play up far enough, it's not crazy.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
I feel like, you know, I shot ninety eight, but
I feel like I could go back there and literally,
if I could play in the next couple of weeks,
I could go back there and I could easily get
in the eighties there.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
I could shave.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
I could shave ten strokes right because I know exactly
where not to go now and the types of things
not to do.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Not that I'm in that great of control of my swing,
but but it was. It's such a really special place.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
The reason I bring this up is Official Masters Hospitality
for twenty twenty six.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
It's this list.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
I was like, what like, when I'm looking at this,
have you ever been to the Mets? See, I've never
been to the Masters either, And it's something I've all
always wanted to do. But you get into a lottery
every year and are they going to choose you?
Speaker 1 (04:05):
And you can buy the tickets from any of the
ticket brokers or whatever. But it is, it's stupid.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
It's you know, five, six, seven thousand dollars a ticket
and up it's.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Like, what I really want to go there?
Speaker 2 (04:17):
But holy cow, do I want to spend ten grand
or twelve grand on a couple of tickets? And that's
not even for the you know regular tournament you know rounds.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
Well anymore, that's about what it costs to go to
on Ohio State football game. I mean, I just had
my ticket Ronould the other day.
Speaker 5 (04:33):
Well what the hack man needs to audit that?
Speaker 3 (04:36):
I don't know where all that goes.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
So the reason I bring this up is like, there's
some amenities at other level price tag. This is the
VIP Hospitality and it's a brochure for the Official Master's
Hospitality Program.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
It is.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
It was just released. Transportations valued at twenty nine thousand.
Two homes, a host home valued at sixty grand, and
sleeper home valued at thirty eight thousand. Includes get here's
what you get for that? You get daily cleaning and
fresh linens.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Well that's nice of it.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Well, isn't that.
Speaker 5 (05:08):
Nice the way I am?
Speaker 1 (05:10):
That's worth the money right there.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Pantry stocking valued at six thousand a full time staff
member valued at thirteen thousand, catering valued at twenty three
five Back up.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
A staff member thirteen thousand dollars for a week.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
I guess is it a week here?
Speaker 3 (05:25):
How many days?
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Well, it would be I would imagine it would include
like the practice rounds and then through the tournament. So
probably what what would that be? Six days? Maybe five?
Six days? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Uh tea times at area golf courses valued at thirteen
to five.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
And then there's a twenty percent service fee. That's thirty
six thousand, six hundred dollars.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
That's just for the service fee.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Right.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
It said there are cheaper programs. But if this is
up your ally, have at it. This is from the
Sports Business Journal. But I was looking at this going
right when I go man, I was complain about what
I paid to play TPC sawgress.
Speaker 5 (06:03):
I see this, and I go, okay, well that's I
won one of those thirteen thousand dollars a week staff
member jobs.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Yeah. Oh yeah, I'd work.
Speaker 5 (06:11):
Seven eight weeks a year and then vacation maybe.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Yeah, But you're part of the thirteen thousand is about
four hundred bucks.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Oh okay, yeah, the person who employed you is keeping
all that didn't know that.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
It's not exactly yeah, said puts a different face on it.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Of the guys to call into you regularly, a good
friend of mine and yours, Jim Jordan is.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
A heck with golfer.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Oh yeah, so yeah, talk to him.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
He'll he'll probably have played that course, I bet yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
And you had brought up to him a couple of
weeks ago about how he played with his brother and
shot eighty one?
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Is that right? Just so proud of himself. Yeah, yeah,
so proud of himself. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
I was off on a Monday when he was on
and Chuck was filling in, and Chuck had him and
Chuck's like, hey, just so you know, you got to
ask him about his eighty one he shot with his brother,
And then I brought it up the next time. But
I we we have had it penciled in to play
a couple of different times and then nothing, you know somehow.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
But you know, that guy's crazy busy. So there's a
lot crazy busy. Yeah, so it's kind of like I
can't be too if it happens. It happens.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
And his guy Russell, who's his handler, that's who I
deal with. Mostly he's a diehard golfer too, because I
played Harbor Town last year and he's like, I sent
him a picture when I was on eighteen with the
lighthouse in the background, and he goes, are you at
Harbor Town? I go yeah, he goes, man, that's a
great place. I've played there too, and so, you know,
I kind of come to find out he's a he's
(07:35):
a pretty good good golfer too, I think. So so
talk to me about because when Matt contacted me and said, hey,
auditor Favor is going to be in town and you know,
would you And I was like, yeah, that's this would
be fantastic to come by. But the fact that, you know,
a large uptick in cyber attacks against public entities, the
taxpayers here in Ohio, we're paying the price for this
(07:58):
kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
But this seems like it's always been around.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
But is it our imagination or is it kind of
elevating right now?
Speaker 4 (08:06):
Look, the fraudsters and the hackers are just getting better.
They're really good at social engineering. And one of the
things your listeners have to personally be concerned about. Now
I'm going to talk a little bit about government and
the government security issues, but they're figuring out ways to
get you to give them information that you never would
give them otherwise.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
It's called social engineering.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
And so they'll send you an email saying, Hey, you
just want to grill from Lows for being a great customer.
Let me guess there's no grill. What they want to
do is get you to respond, tag you and get
your information.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
They'll send you.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
My phone probably rings nine or ten times a day
with somebody pretending to be soliciting me for Medicare advantage.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
I'm not old enough for Medicare.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
It's just I've had my same phone number for twenty years,
and so they assume you're eligible. And what they want
is to prey on our senior citizens. And so they're
trying to get you to give you their Medicare number
or just get a live person that they can get
you to give information. They're really good at soliciting information
on the private side, on the individual side. How many
saw the Beekeeper movie. It's a real life story of
(09:10):
what can happen Jason Staythum. Yeah, we need more Jason
Thathums than the exact vengeance when they go to these
guys that are doing But I digress. The reality is
is that my brother had almost exactly that situation. He
was his father in law passed away during COVID, so
he's been taking care of his mother in law's financial
issues and he was out on the pontoon boat and
(09:32):
literally got a call from his mother in law say, hey, Kevin,
where's the password for this account?
Speaker 3 (09:36):
He said, why do you need that password?
Speaker 4 (09:38):
And as he got to the bottom of it, somebody
had communicated with her trying to get her information, and
he said, now, push yourself away from the keyboard, go
sit on the couch, don't get a cup of coffee,
don't go to the bathroom. I'll be there in forty
five minutes. He got there and she was literally one
key stroke away from sending all of her financial information,
oh success, to one of the bad guys. And that's
the kind of stuff that's happening far too often. Well,
(10:00):
when it comes to government, what we're seeing is is
that a couple of big schemes. You heard about Columbus's
ransomware attack, Cleveland got hit as well. Yes, the bigger
issue we're seeing is something called vendor redirects, where somebody
calls up the city auditor and says Hey, this is
ABC Paving. We figured out they know that ABC Paving
(10:20):
was doing some street roads. We changed our bank from
Fifth Third to Key Bank. Here's our new bank information.
Send our next payment to this information, and all too
often the city auditor or the finance director sends the
check to the.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
New bank information.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
Well, it really wasn't ted at ABC Paving that called them,
And next thing you know, you're out seven hundred thousand dollars.
Hello Granville or your Mansfield and out seven hundred and
fifty thousand dollars. What happened in Mansfield, Well, Mansfield was
a vendor redirects scheme where they sent money again to
a fictitious vendor. Oftentimes they'll send an email pretending to
(10:54):
be somebody, and effectively what they did was sent the
money to the wrong place.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
They didn't.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
We actually now have issued two bulletins, and our bulletins
have the force of law to local governments, and saying first,
our first one was okay, this is happening, be aware
of it. If somebody asks you to redirect somebody's payroll
or a check for a vendor, don't do it. If
you take it electronically, Well that they didn't pay attention,
and so we continued to have them. So the second
(11:21):
one we sent out was a serious bulletin that's set here.
Never ever, never ever, never ever, ever, never ever ever
never accept electronic redirect requests. That electronic means over the phone,
over the email, a text, even a carrier pigeon. The
fact of the matter is, don't accept any request except
somebody in person. And we gave a two person vendor,
(11:42):
two person verification requirement that would essentially stop that risk.
Even after we've done that, we continue to have losses.
And so we basically sent out a missive to everybody saying, look,
if you're going to gamble with government money, we have
the issue to issue findings the recovery against the finance
director of the person who does it.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
You're gambling with your own mind.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Now we're going to issue personal directives and findings against
the individuals who fail to follow our guidance. We've sent
it out twice. We've given you a warning, do not
take those requests electronically. You know, I can tell you
stories that are curlier hair, but I don't have any hair.
But I'm looking, I said, there's not a lot of
hair to curl A little bit.
Speaker 5 (12:19):
Yeah, but I'm curious that the I mean, we're going
to move taxpayer money around. Essentially, you're going to find
a city or a township or whatever, and they're going
to have to pay a fine for What about the
private corporations the banks that, for example, allow these fate
companies to create accounts in order to receive that money
and then take all Is there any culpability there? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (12:37):
Actually, usually that's not what was happening. As auditor, I
have jurisdiction over government money. I don't audit individuals. I
don't know businesses, and I have absolutely nothing to do
with taxes. I always tell people if your property taxes
are too darn high, they are, it's not us.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
And you're like mine, R two, mine or two, and
that's not us.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
What we do is watch over people who spend your
government money. But in what's happening in the financial site
on the bank, usually it's not the banks allowing people
to create fake accounts. There's a term that I learned
when we dealt with the Medicaid I'm sorry, the unemployment
comp fraud that occurred during the pandemic. It's a term
that the Secret Service and the Labor department. Guys who
(13:15):
informed me what the schemes were told us. And it's
called a financial mule. It's kind of like a drug mule,
except it is somebody who either allows them to take
access to their bank account and they get a little
love left over in the account afterwards, or somebody whose
bank account is used unknowingly.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
And so what happens is the scammers.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
Will move money from your account or the government account
into the financial mules account. And let's just say they
move eighty thousand dollars because that was the amount they stole.
If you're a willing mule, usually they will move not
eighty thousand, because the bank algorithms will pick up moving
of eighty thousand and eighty thousand and eighty thousand. So
they figured out they moved not eighty thousand. They moved
seventy three, four hundred and ninety seven dollars for the
(13:57):
second bounce. And they do this to about four or
five different account before they bounce it overseas or over to.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
A Grand Cayman bank account or something that can't be tracked.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
And so what happens is, if you're a willing mule,
that little love that they leave behind.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
Is your payment or whatever you're agreed appoint a few thousand.
It could be a little bit here or there.
Speaker 4 (14:16):
More often than not, you're an unwilling mule, which means
if you don't check your bank account every day, you
could be a mule and not now if you see
money moving in and out of your account, okay, usually
they're moving.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Exact numbers or similar numbers. Most people, if you see
a couple hundred bucks show up in.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
Your account, you're going, eh, that must be you know,
I missed my direct deposit or something went wrong. If
you see that happening in your account, usually they'll do
it before most people see it, and it looks on
the statements if you see it just to transfer in
and a transfer out. But they're using people's accounts who
they've hacked and don't have knowledge of it, and they'll
make those bounces a number of times. And if we
can catch them before the money gets based out of
(14:52):
the United States, we can often get the money back.
We had a situation where a community college thought that
they were moving money into a star account. They had
been spoons and they had been told to send the
money to the wrong account.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
They sent six million dollars and the financial.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
The finance manager the next morning gets up after he's
sent it, I'm gonna check the account, make sure the
money's in the account. And loan behold money wasn't in
his account because he didn't send it to the right place,
and so he immediately notified US, notified the FBI, notified
the Federal Reserve, and we were able to use their
program called a kill program, and because they were bouncing
it this way, we were able to get all six
(15:29):
million dollars.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Oh, that is absolutely staggering that you were able to
recover that.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Sometimes it's good to be lucky.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Oh my gosh, it's crazy.
All right, thank you for listening.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
State Auditor Keith Faber in studio with us and UH
auditor Faber.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Good to see you again. Thank you for coming in.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
It's awesome to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Thank you, thank you. I really appreciate it. You know,
I was just showing you and Matt, who's with you.
You know, some of my footage from the TPC Sawgrass
the stadium course there. It's a Pete Die masterpiece there
where the Players Championship has played every year, and we're
talking about, you know, golf and all of this, and
(00:30):
I was asking you, auditor favor if you play, but
it seems to me like you know the game, but
you don't really play.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
I played at one point and my game got consistently worse.
And a friend of mine's brother is a actually golf pro,
is a PGA pro. Oh wow, and he actually teaches
it a course in Florida, and so we played around
with him. I said, hey, give me some tips. Yeah,
and after about four holes he said, here's the tip.
Quit take lessons, and so I'm taking him.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Up on that. Over over a period of years, I
play a couple of times.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
A year, usually in a at a tournament or something
you need to go to.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
An outing or something.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
I think my last round actually might have been here
in Columbus at Double Eagle.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Oh wow.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
It was a very good round until I got to
about hole fourteen and then got stuck, stung by ground
hornets one of the sand traps. My balls end up
in the sand a lot. I like the beach, and
so I was on the hole and all of a
sudden got stung about five times and that ended my
golf day.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Oh but I'm not allergic or anything. It just you know,
wasn't pleasant.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Right.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
But as I'm doing the hula on the on the green,
dancing off wasps and stripping off clothes to get the
wasp out of my shirt.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Oh my god, it was so fun. It was a
fun experience.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
But yeah, it's a great course, and it's a great experience,
particularly when you're out with a group of friends or
a group of people where you can just socialize.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
And I've been in a couple of outings there at
Double Eagle with Congressman Balderson. He'll have like a fundraise,
you know something there, like some sort of an outing,
and I've played a couple of times there.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
That's up the street from where I live.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Actually I live like five maybe eight six minutes somewhere
around there from that, and so what an amazing that's
a very special place too.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
And the day before they were talking about when we
were there last year.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
He's like, yeah, Jason Day was just up here yesterday
working on his game because he's a member there and
of course in the PGA Tour.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
But it is a fabulous course and certainly a course
well beyond my skill level.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Yeah, but you know what, you know, depending on which
teas you play there, it's not it's really not that
it's not that hard of a course. It's it can
be long if you're going to back up, and then
it becomes a little more of an undertaking.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
But it's a it's it's.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
A fair course, and that's that's the thing. I mean,
you play like you know, I played Mierfield every year too.
Because they do media out there. Other than that, they
want nothing to do. They're like, you stay away from here,
you you know, like, don't even get close to Meerfield.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Everybody's welcome, but you.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Blazer like, stay away. But that's a course that that's
not desire. It's not to be friendly for the people
who are playing it for the members. That is a
tournament course, and oh yeah, we happen to have members here.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
Well.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Double Eagle is a little more.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Friendly with regard to that, But TPC Sawgrass is That's
another one of those.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
If you play up far enough, it's not crazy.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
I feel like, you know, I shot ninety eight, but
I feel like I could go back there and literally,
if I could play in the next couple of weeks,
I could go back there and I could easily get
in the eighties there.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
I could shave.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
I could shave ten strokes right because I know exactly
where not to go now and the types of things
not to do.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Not that I'm in that great of control of my swing,
but but it was. It's such a really special place.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
The reason I bring this up is Official Masters Hospitality
for twenty twenty six.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
It's this list.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
I was like, what like, when I'm looking at this,
have you ever been to the Mets? See, I've never
been to the Masters either, And it's something I've all
always wanted to do. But you get into a lottery
every year and are they going to choose you?
Speaker 1 (04:05):
And you can buy the tickets from any of the
ticket brokers or whatever. But it is, it's stupid.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
It's you know, five, six, seven thousand dollars a ticket
and up it's.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Like, what I really want to go there?
Speaker 2 (04:17):
But holy cow, do I want to spend ten grand
or twelve grand on a couple of tickets? And that's
not even for the you know regular tournament you know rounds.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
Well anymore, that's about what it costs to go to
on Ohio State football game. I mean, I just had
my ticket Ronould the other day.
Speaker 5 (04:33):
Well what the hack man needs to audit that?
Speaker 3 (04:36):
I don't know where all that goes.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
So the reason I bring this up is like, there's
some amenities at other level price tag. This is the
VIP Hospitality and it's a brochure for the Official Master's
Hospitality Program.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
It is.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
It was just released. Transportations valued at twenty nine thousand.
Two homes, a host home valued at sixty grand, and
sleeper home valued at thirty eight thousand. Includes get here's
what you get for that? You get daily cleaning and
fresh linens.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Well that's nice of it.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Well, isn't that.
Speaker 5 (05:08):
Nice the way I am?
Speaker 1 (05:10):
That's worth the money right there.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Pantry stocking valued at six thousand a full time staff
member valued at thirteen thousand, catering valued at twenty three
five Back up.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
A staff member thirteen thousand dollars for a week.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
I guess is it a week here?
Speaker 3 (05:25):
How many days?
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Well, it would be I would imagine it would include
like the practice rounds and then through the tournament. So
probably what what would that be? Six days? Maybe five?
Six days? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Uh tea times at area golf courses valued at thirteen
to five.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
And then there's a twenty percent service fee. That's thirty
six thousand, six hundred dollars.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
That's just for the service fee.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Right.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
It said there are cheaper programs. But if this is
up your ally, have at it. This is from the
Sports Business Journal. But I was looking at this going
right when I go man, I was complain about what
I paid to play TPC sawgress.
Speaker 5 (06:03):
I see this, and I go, okay, well that's I
won one of those thirteen thousand dollars a week staff
member jobs.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Yeah. Oh yeah, I'd work.
Speaker 5 (06:11):
Seven eight weeks a year and then vacation maybe.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Yeah, But you're part of the thirteen thousand is about
four hundred bucks.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Oh okay, yeah, the person who employed you is keeping
all that didn't know that.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
It's not exactly yeah, said puts a different face on it.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Of the guys to call into you regularly, a good
friend of mine and yours, Jim Jordan is.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
A heck with golfer.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Oh yeah, so yeah, talk to him.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
He'll he'll probably have played that course, I bet yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
And you had brought up to him a couple of
weeks ago about how he played with his brother and
shot eighty one?
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Is that right? Just so proud of himself. Yeah, yeah,
so proud of himself. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
I was off on a Monday when he was on
and Chuck was filling in, and Chuck had him and
Chuck's like, hey, just so you know, you got to
ask him about his eighty one he shot with his brother,
And then I brought it up the next time. But
I we we have had it penciled in to play
a couple of different times and then nothing, you know somehow.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
But you know, that guy's crazy busy. So there's a
lot crazy busy. Yeah, so it's kind of like I
can't be too if it happens. It happens.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
And his guy Russell, who's his handler, that's who I
deal with. Mostly he's a diehard golfer too, because I
played Harbor Town last year and he's like, I sent
him a picture when I was on eighteen with the
lighthouse in the background, and he goes, are you at
Harbor Town? I go yeah, he goes, man, that's a
great place. I've played there too, and so, you know,
I kind of come to find out he's a he's
(07:35):
a pretty good good golfer too, I think. So so
talk to me about because when Matt contacted me and said, hey,
auditor Favor is going to be in town and you know,
would you And I was like, yeah, that's this would
be fantastic to come by. But the fact that, you know,
a large uptick in cyber attacks against public entities, the
taxpayers here in Ohio, we're paying the price for this
(07:58):
kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
But this seems like it's always been around.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
But is it our imagination or is it kind of
elevating right now?
Speaker 4 (08:06):
Look, the fraudsters and the hackers are just getting better.
They're really good at social engineering. And one of the
things your listeners have to personally be concerned about. Now
I'm going to talk a little bit about government and
the government security issues, but they're figuring out ways to
get you to give them information that you never would
give them otherwise.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
It's called social engineering.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
And so they'll send you an email saying, Hey, you
just want to grill from Lows for being a great customer.
Let me guess there's no grill. What they want to
do is get you to respond, tag you and get
your information.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
They'll send you.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
My phone probably rings nine or ten times a day
with somebody pretending to be soliciting me for Medicare advantage.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
I'm not old enough for Medicare.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
It's just I've had my same phone number for twenty years,
and so they assume you're eligible. And what they want
is to prey on our senior citizens. And so they're
trying to get you to give you their Medicare number
or just get a live person that they can get
you to give information. They're really good at soliciting information
on the private side, on the individual side. How many
saw the Beekeeper movie. It's a real life story of
(09:10):
what can happen Jason Staythum. Yeah, we need more Jason
Thathums than the exact vengeance when they go to these
guys that are doing But I digress. The reality is
is that my brother had almost exactly that situation. He
was his father in law passed away during COVID, so
he's been taking care of his mother in law's financial
issues and he was out on the pontoon boat and
(09:32):
literally got a call from his mother in law say, hey, Kevin,
where's the password for this account?
Speaker 3 (09:36):
He said, why do you need that password?
Speaker 4 (09:38):
And as he got to the bottom of it, somebody
had communicated with her trying to get her information, and
he said, now, push yourself away from the keyboard, go
sit on the couch, don't get a cup of coffee,
don't go to the bathroom. I'll be there in forty
five minutes. He got there and she was literally one
key stroke away from sending all of her financial information,
oh success, to one of the bad guys. And that's
the kind of stuff that's happening far too often. Well,
(10:00):
when it comes to government, what we're seeing is is
that a couple of big schemes. You heard about Columbus's
ransomware attack, Cleveland got hit as well. Yes, the bigger
issue we're seeing is something called vendor redirects, where somebody
calls up the city auditor and says Hey, this is
ABC Paving. We figured out they know that ABC Paving
(10:20):
was doing some street roads. We changed our bank from
Fifth Third to Key Bank. Here's our new bank information.
Send our next payment to this information, and all too
often the city auditor or the finance director sends the
check to the.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
New bank information.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
Well, it really wasn't ted at ABC Paving that called them,
And next thing you know, you're out seven hundred thousand dollars.
Hello Granville or your Mansfield and out seven hundred and
fifty thousand dollars. What happened in Mansfield, Well, Mansfield was
a vendor redirects scheme where they sent money again to
a fictitious vendor. Oftentimes they'll send an email pretending to
(10:54):
be somebody, and effectively what they did was sent the
money to the wrong place.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
They didn't.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
We actually now have issued two bulletins, and our bulletins
have the force of law to local governments, and saying first,
our first one was okay, this is happening, be aware
of it. If somebody asks you to redirect somebody's payroll
or a check for a vendor, don't do it. If
you take it electronically, Well that they didn't pay attention,
and so we continued to have them. So the second
(11:21):
one we sent out was a serious bulletin that's set here.
Never ever, never ever, never ever, ever, never ever ever
never accept electronic redirect requests. That electronic means over the phone,
over the email, a text, even a carrier pigeon. The
fact of the matter is, don't accept any request except
somebody in person. And we gave a two person vendor,
(11:42):
two person verification requirement that would essentially stop that risk.
Even after we've done that, we continue to have losses.
And so we basically sent out a missive to everybody saying, look,
if you're going to gamble with government money, we have
the issue to issue findings the recovery against the finance
director of the person who does it.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
You're gambling with your own mind.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Now we're going to issue personal directives and findings against
the individuals who fail to follow our guidance. We've sent
it out twice. We've given you a warning, do not
take those requests electronically. You know, I can tell you
stories that are curlier hair, but I don't have any hair.
But I'm looking, I said, there's not a lot of
hair to curl A little bit.
Speaker 5 (12:19):
Yeah, but I'm curious that the I mean, we're going
to move taxpayer money around. Essentially, you're going to find
a city or a township or whatever, and they're going
to have to pay a fine for What about the
private corporations the banks that, for example, allow these fate
companies to create accounts in order to receive that money
and then take all Is there any culpability there? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (12:37):
Actually, usually that's not what was happening. As auditor, I
have jurisdiction over government money. I don't audit individuals. I
don't know businesses, and I have absolutely nothing to do
with taxes. I always tell people if your property taxes
are too darn high, they are, it's not us.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
And you're like mine, R two, mine or two, and
that's not us.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
What we do is watch over people who spend your
government money. But in what's happening in the financial site
on the bank, usually it's not the banks allowing people
to create fake accounts. There's a term that I learned
when we dealt with the Medicaid I'm sorry, the unemployment
comp fraud that occurred during the pandemic. It's a term
that the Secret Service and the Labor department. Guys who
(13:15):
informed me what the schemes were told us. And it's
called a financial mule. It's kind of like a drug mule,
except it is somebody who either allows them to take
access to their bank account and they get a little
love left over in the account afterwards, or somebody whose
bank account is used unknowingly.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
And so what happens is the scammers.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
Will move money from your account or the government account
into the financial mules account. And let's just say they
move eighty thousand dollars because that was the amount they stole.
If you're a willing mule, usually they will move not
eighty thousand, because the bank algorithms will pick up moving
of eighty thousand and eighty thousand and eighty thousand. So
they figured out they moved not eighty thousand. They moved
seventy three, four hundred and ninety seven dollars for the
(13:57):
second bounce. And they do this to about four or
five different account before they bounce it overseas or over to.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
A Grand Cayman bank account or something that can't be tracked.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
And so what happens is, if you're a willing mule,
that little love that they leave behind.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
Is your payment or whatever you're agreed appoint a few thousand.
It could be a little bit here or there.
Speaker 4 (14:16):
More often than not, you're an unwilling mule, which means
if you don't check your bank account every day, you
could be a mule and not now if you see
money moving in and out of your account, okay, usually
they're moving.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Exact numbers or similar numbers. Most people, if you see
a couple hundred bucks show up in.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
Your account, you're going, eh, that must be you know,
I missed my direct deposit or something went wrong. If
you see that happening in your account, usually they'll do
it before most people see it, and it looks on
the statements if you see it just to transfer in
and a transfer out. But they're using people's accounts who
they've hacked and don't have knowledge of it, and they'll
make those bounces a number of times. And if we
can catch them before the money gets based out of
(14:52):
the United States, we can often get the money back.
We had a situation where a community college thought that
they were moving money into a star account. They had
been spoons and they had been told to send the
money to the wrong account.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
They sent six million dollars and the financial.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
The finance manager the next morning gets up after he's
sent it, I'm gonna check the account, make sure the
money's in the account. And loan behold money wasn't in
his account because he didn't send it to the right place,
and so he immediately notified US, notified the FBI, notified
the Federal Reserve, and we were able to use their
program called a kill program, and because they were bouncing
it this way, we were able to get all six
(15:29):
million dollars.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Oh, that is absolutely staggering that you were able to
recover that.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Sometimes it's good to be lucky.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Oh my gosh, it's crazy.
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