August 8, 2025 • 36 mins
Colin’s top takes of the week!
First, he’s joined by John Middlekauff, host of “3 and Out” to discuss expectations for J.J. McCarthy with the Vikings (2:45), why the Commanders NEED to pay Terry McLaurin (8:00), and whether things could get UGLY between the Bengals and Joe Burrow if they miss the playoffs again (15:30).
Then, he’s joined by Cowboys reporter Matt Mosley from Cowboys training camp!
They break down the circus surrounding the Micah Parsons contract situation (27:00) and preview what the Cowboys offense could look like with the addition of star WR George Pickens (29:00).
Finally, Colin is joined by LIV Tour professional golfer Kevin Na!
They begin with Kevin’s decision to make the move from the PGA Tour to the LIV Golf tour and how difficult of a decision it was (32:00)
They talk about the initial blowback players received for “defecting” from the PGA Tour and whether that has dissipated after some time (34:30). They discuss the evolution of Phil Mickelson over the years and Kevin offers nothing but high praise for the legend (36:00).
They highlight Bryson DeChambeau’s journey from heel to hero as he’s become a superstar on the tour (38:00), and discuss whether another golfer will ever be able to capture Tiger Wood’s larger than life persona in the world of golf (40:45).
(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
I'm gonna still stick with my prediction that JJ McCarthy
will if he does have success. It's a little bit
of a brock Pretty thing. It's the coach, it's the
left tackle, it's the weapons that will put him in
a place that I think elevates him beyond what he
would be with average personnel, average coach or bad. I
(00:33):
don't think brock Party is good enough to save a
bad situation, but I think in the current situation with
Trent Williams, Kittle, Jennings, Shanahan, McCaffrey, I think more than capable,
I tend to think McCarthy's going to fall into that.
I mean left tackle, head coach, running back, tight end.
I think I think JJ McCarthy would have to be
(00:55):
bad not to have some brock Pretty level success where
you know, oh, he's not a physical specimen, but he
can complete passes and move the chains.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
I do think though he you know, brock Purdy got
to come in toward middle of the end of the year, right,
so there was less pressure, and let's face it, when
Jimmy Garoppolo shattered his ankle, that the expectations for brock
Purty were zilch. I mean I thought their season was over,
and then the kid just started rattling off games. You know,
for JJ McCarthy, a little like Trey Lance when the
(01:25):
forty nine ers drafted him, kind of like Caleb, but
we didn't really believe in Eberflus. It's pretty rare that
a guy that was drafted pretty high starts on a
team that, what do you think is a fair expectations
anything less than the NFC Championship game with their roster,
their coaching staff. It's really really high, you know, It's
not like nine to eight and some growing pains. You know,
(01:46):
justin Jefferson had some comments within the last week. You
can just tell it's like our expectations here are high,
and it's like this is a work in progress.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Now.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
The good thing is you can get better, right He
might not be same with Caleb saying, with a lot
of these guys, what they look like in September, they
might look a lot better in November. But it can
go the other way too. It can break you. So
if you have a couple of tough games, how do
you handle that adversity? That's that's really what all the
NFL is right, is handling the tough times to get
to the better times.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
I was reading somebody in the Athletic rank the coaching staffs,
and I didn't disagree. He had Minnesota as the best
coaching staff in the league. I think he had San
Francisco with Kyle and solid two.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Are you talking the whole staff?
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Yeah, I mean basically head coach, top two coordinators. He
had Minnesota number one. And I think, and I've said
this about brock Purty. I mean literally he got the
keys to a Mercedes. You get Shanahan, McCaffrey, Trent Williams
at the time, Debo Iu Kittle. I mean that's hard
to mess up. I mean, if you're just capable, if
you're quick above the shoulders, which I think JJ McCarthy
(02:48):
and Brock Purty are. I think they're smart guys. The
downside to it is it's not it's a hard eval
It's hard to evaluate somebody when they're I mean, it
would be like putting somebody with Charles Barklay Shack and
Ernie Johnson. It's hard to really say what. Kenny Smith
(03:10):
is certainly capable, but his role on that show is
to kind of poke the bear and just kind of
have fun and be the straight man, and so it
is hard to make. It's an easy evaluation on Jaden
Daniels last year. Oh shit, he's carrying a bad online,
a defensive coach, a one weapon offense.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
It's like Andrew luck easy a Herbert's rookie year. Wow,
this is impressive. I think JJ's going to be a
hard evaluation because how much of the success is based.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
On I mean, let's be honest.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Last year, in Week fourteen, Sam Darnald was first or
second in MVP. He was a bust going to Minnesota.
So like now, I don't even know quite what to
make of Donald.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
What is Donald?
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Well, I'm pretty high, I think Donald. I think their
team's going to be pretty good, you know, giving health,
the talent in Seattle, I would expect, you know, pretty
high things for Sam, maybe not throw thirty five touchdowns,
but to just be a solid player in the NFL
moving forward, you know, be a guy that's on the
good side of the top fifteen of the quarterbacks, not
you know, somewhere between twenty two and thirty two, like
(04:21):
most people thought he just sucked. But one thing, going
back to Donald, he said that change his career was
not just Kyle believing him, but watching brock Purty operate.
And the thing that separated brock Purty immediately was not
his height, was not his arm strength. It was all
the intangible stuff which he had built for four years
at let's face it, when he got there kind of
(04:42):
an average football program that him and Matt Campbell transitioned
into a high level football program where he was getting
offered by USC and that big reason was because of
brock Purty, you know. I mean, let's face it, mel
Tucker got some big jobs because you know, got a
huge extension because of Kenneth Walker. Sometimes one or two individuals, yeah,
at not the top tier programs can change the course
(05:04):
of your career. So brock Purdy, his intangibles are a
huge separating factor for why you know, all the guys
with the forty nine ers, coaches and players believe in them,
you know, JJ, He's just gonna have to prove it,
you know, and it's gonna have to be part of
his repertoire. Are you getting there at five in the morning,
Are you grinding Monday through Saturday? Because that's all these quarterbacks,
(05:26):
that's all they talk about. It's not just the grind
on Tom Brady's been talking about Mondays and Tuesdays for
fifteen years.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
So you and I both agree on this that the
Terry McLaurin situation in Washington is troubling. So I liked
the Deebo acquisition because he's a chess piece and Cliff
Kingsbury would be. You know, a play designer is good
with chess pieces, but Debo is not as good consistently,
(05:55):
or as healthy consistently, or as productive consistently as Terry McLaurin.
And Terry's been the guy that's been I mean because
of where he was drafted. Terry hasn't gotten the huge
payday yet. In fact, you could argue before amor On
Saint Brown's contract that McLaurin and omor On Saint Brown
are the most under underpaid weapons in the league. So
I actually get Terry McLaurin saying guys like I have
(06:19):
outperformed my contract fourfold. Deebo is a guy that's not
going to be a center piece, more of a chess piece,
struggles to stay healthy. No, no, no, no this, I'm not
doing any team favors on this.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
I kind of side with Terry mcclaurin.
Speaker 5 (06:37):
Here.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
You Belichick talked about this for a long time, the
locker room dynamics and money. I mean, you're dealing with
young people who value themselves based on their contract relative
to their peers. You know, it's hard with NFL contracts
because it's convoluted, because a signing bonus is and pro
rated money. But basically they make a very similar amount
of actual cash going into their bank account week one
(06:59):
through seven this year, Debo and Terry McLaurin last time
I checked. Terry McLaurin had thirteen touchdowns last year and
it was a massive reason that Jayden Daniels became a star.
And if you're him, like what about all the sweat
equity when this franchise was a joke. Yeah, I was
the good guy doing the right thing. You bring in
this other guy who is the GM's guy right from
the forty nine ers, but he peaked, you know, part
(07:21):
of the reasons Kyle got rid of him. He's like
chubby wide receiver. When do you ever hear about that, Like,
couldn't stay in shape, got moodies, asked for trades before.
Now he comes and we're making similar money. These are
human beings, right, I totally understand, Like that's not really
I feel like a part of the reporting. It's not
like and Terry would come out and say I'm jealous
or angry because but you can't tell me that didn't
(07:43):
play a part. You think I'm gonna make the same
amount of money as this guy. You know we're both
in contract years. Yet I this is my team, which
I've been here from day one. You just bring in
this guy. I also wonder if it showed him like
what this administration they weren't my people, So I better
be pretty careful now. They're gonna want me to like
on the line now. But what if I get hurt
and then I can't get a contract after this year?
(08:03):
They don't care. They'll just move on. Because wide receivers
this isn't you know, tackle or defensive ends not it's not.
It's a pretty easy position to replace. Even if Debo fails.
They could just draft a guy next year in the
first round or the second round, or hit on a
guy in the fourth round. Who knows, maybe McCaffrey's brother
becomes a fifty catch guy. It's an easy you could argue,
it's the easiest position now to find.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Oh I can name off the top of my head
the tank Dells and the Puka Nakuas and the Amora
on Saint Brown's rounds four or five, Jennings and San Francisco's.
I think it's seventh round guy wide receivers easily now.
Now it can be the most inflammable and bustable first
round pick because they come in.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
You know, it's an ego position.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
They come in the first round, but by and large
it's I just I look at Terry McLaurin and I
tried to personalize it, and I'm thinking, he's been a
good guy, he's been productive, he was the star. He is,
to a large degree, is the one thing you could
build Aiden Daniels around, not the old line of the
run game or tight end. I think you have to
(09:05):
take care of him. And for the record, I wouldn't
have said this ten years ago, but you can pay
two weapons now and they're not paying a running back
big money or a tight end like ten years ago.
The money was dispersed often more on the defense than offense.
In New England it was I mean Brady was taking
cuts in the NFL. Now, the Rams like the Rams,
(09:27):
the Chiefs, they pay like one defensive player. So I'm
okay paying two weapons. I'm okay with t Higgins and
Jamar Chase, I'm okay with it.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Well, imagine if you're terry too. So you look around
and you go listen. I'm not even comparing myself to
Jamar Chase or Ceedee Lamb or Justin Jefferson, but let's
go dk Metcalf the next year. Guys who early on
in his career had like the greatest start ever. Last
couple of years have been weird. The guy that gets
penalties every game, and Seattle's like, yeah, we're kind of
out of this business. He said, he asked for a trade.
(09:59):
I think they were ready to pivot, and he goes, well,
he just gets one hundred and fifty million dollars and
sixty seventy million dollars in guaranteed, and he's a question
mark of like can you corral this guy? He's like
a better version of some of these crazy guys. I
am everything you would want, character check all these boxes
and I produce and I can't get you. Guys won't
(10:20):
even offer me anything. So they want him, and it's
the NFL. It's cut thrown. I totally understand it, but
I think they want him just to play this season
on the fifteen million dollars and then evaluate after that. Now,
this is this isn't the NBA, right when these guys
ask for trades like you don't just he's gone, Like
that's not how they're going to operate. And I think
these guys know now that they'll get fined and they
(10:40):
can't take them back. So they show up so they
don't get fifty thousand dollars a day, but they don't
really have to do anything. But is it worth having
this guy who's kind of the heartbeat of your one
of the heart beats team got being mad in a
weird mood like the expectations for Washington. This is why
it's hard. And all these coaches say, what happened last
year is kind of irrelevant this year because guys want
(11:02):
to get paid. Guys got injured, some guys are gone,
but every team is they had nothing but good vibes
last year. Now this year it's like huh yeah no.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
And the other thing is, this is not the NBA
where it's hard to name a player whose career was
ended because of an injury. It's the same in baseball
outside of pitchers and arms. I mean, baseball careers can
last forever. In football, it's just one shot to the knee.
You're not the same wide receiver. So like I get
the psychology of mclaurin's, Like, bro, I'm taking I take
(11:33):
hits at practice. Like we can all name ten pro
football careers have been ended early because of injuries. It
doesn't happen in basketball and baseball or hockey as much.
So I get mclaurin's. There's a certain insecurity about football players.
I get I want to get paid.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Totally, and I think they see it at training camp
and we're numb to it as fans and coaches and
gms don't care. But you see guys every single day.
So and so shattered his leg, so and so ripped
his achilles a lot of times. It's like the seventy
fifth man, So no one cares. Those players are standing
there right in that drill and see the cart come out,
and they knew that guy help. It might be their buddy.
They might have been eating lunch with them, was on
(12:11):
the practice squad, They've been hanging out with them for
a couple of years. They see that cart leaving with
his helmet, they go, his career could be over, and
then a couple of days later he's waved injured. And
so for every time that we see well, because I
always say this, most good players see the majority of
their contract, like Russell Wilson is kind of an outline
if you look at the landscape of the league, all
(12:32):
the top players. Because we haven't had catastrophic injury to
a lot of the top players in recent years, they're
seeing all the guaranteed money and the non guaranteed money
of their contract. But it's just I wouldn't take that
risk if our any of these guys either, because all
it takes is one guy fall in India and your
career is done, or you're just never the same and
(12:52):
all of a sudden you go from a twenty million
dollar player to a veteran minimum guy.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
So Mike Brown's the old owner of the Bengals, and
he kind of lashed out and said, you know, the
Trey Hendricks and stuff.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
You know, he goes.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
A lot of media makes good points, but a lot
of media is just talking. And I was thinking about
it as I was flying from Rhode Island back to
Chicago tonight. It is hard to have an a level
quarterback and missed the playoffs. Fourteen of the thirty two
teams make it, so forty percent of the league makes it.
(13:26):
Joe Burrow, there's an argument, was the most efficient quarterback
in the league last year. It's much more than Mahomes,
So there was an argument on a week to week
basis just efficiency quarterback rating, Burrow was the best.
Speaker 4 (13:39):
Quarterback in the league last year. But think about this
in an offensive.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
League and they didn't make the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
They didn't make it.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
That's almost john impossible in the NFL in twenty twenty
four to twenty five. If your quarterback, I mean it's
you don't even have to have a great quarterback. You
can have a quarterback having a great year. Sam Darnold,
you're gonna win thirteen twelve, thirteen fourteen games. They didn't
make the playoffs. And the reason they didn't make the playoffs.
So you say, well it's the coach, Well then fire him. Well,
(14:11):
they won't do that because you'd have to pay out
a couple of years the contract is is we so
Trey Hendrickson, They literally I think they're thirty second in
quarterback pressures without Trey Hendrickson like he is their pass
rush and they're I mean, he's it, He's the pass
rush and there I mean, listen, Philadelphia can get pressure
(14:32):
on the quarterback whe or without Jalen Carter. Jalen Carter
is the game changer. He's like one of one, his
body type, his quickness, Hendrickson's not great against the run,
but he is their pass rush. But this is like
the fourth straight year. There's a contract squabble here, there's
there's a third straight year. Do you think if Cincinnati
(14:52):
doesn't make the playoffs again and and and will give
Burrow another great year because he's a great player. Do
you think Burrow would just say just go scorts to
Earth and.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
Say because I do.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
I think.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
I think Joe is bright, self aware. You're starting to
see him now do stuff in Paris in the offseason.
He is so frustrated with the organization, he gets away
from it, like he goes abroad. He's not gonna stay
in Ohio. I think if they I think they're the
fascinating team. If Cincinnati misses the playoffs, I think Joe
(15:26):
Burrow and his representatives may get ugly.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
The problem is we've seen how Mike Brown operates in
that scenario, he just tells you to kick rocks. Either
with Carson Palmer, He's done it this offseason, He's done
it in years past. I think they like the Bears last year,
it's like, you should have fired I Reflute, you could
have hired Mike Vrabel and you're probably a playoff team
in Caleb No one, We're not even talking about it.
He's just solid, right, he just would have worked. And
this offseason the Chargers went through this forever like Anthony Lynn,
(15:52):
Mike McCoy, Brandon Staley says, hire a real coach. What
did they finally do Jim Harbaugh? Who does everyone boughts
for the last two years? The Chargers Why because they
got a real coach and this is a team. Imagine
if they had fired Zach Taylor last year. Like obviously
the Bears being in Chicago is a hard job to
pass up, especially they're gonna pay a lot of money.
(16:13):
But to coach Joe Burrow, I mean, I'm sorry, like
you're kind of remembered on wins and losses, not just
like well I coached the Bears. Well if you lost,
no one cares, right, no one's really talking about Matt Maggie, right,
he would rather coach Joe Burrow than mis Tubisky. So
does do they get Ben Johnson to just Mike Vrabel, like, Hey,
I want that job over Drake. It's Joe Burrow. So
(16:34):
I think that it's hard to overcome this when you
hire chief coaches, and that's kind of listen. Zach Taylor's
probably a nice guy, and you know, solid NFL mind,
but we're not talking Sean McVay, Kyle Shanning. He's not
super dynamic. The organization isn't super dynamic. But you can
overcome that. Like, no one ever said that about the
Chargers till they got Jim Harbaugh and then they said
Jim Harba said to listen, but you want me, I
(16:54):
need X, Y and Z. And now they're paying big
money for all these people and you feel.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Good about them.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
But the difference is the LA market and the deal
that Dean Spanos has, you know, like the dollar a
year lease is they are swimming in cash because the
LA market drives so much revenue. Cincinnati doesn't. Their game
day revenue is near the bottom of the league. So
Brown won't pay fifteen million for a coach and twenty
(17:20):
four million for a staff. I don't think they'll pay
half that, whereas Spanos can go listen so.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
Far as a bank so far is unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Or if they won't, Joe Burrow's got to ask out then
soon because you know, or their team's good enough they
can overcome it. But if that's the case, they go
nine to eight and they miss it again, it's clear
that their coaching staff sucks. They fire them, and then
next year, whoever the hot guy is, they end up
with a third tier guy. It's like, you gotta get
out because this is we've seen this song and dance.
I saw Antonio Gates point at Philip Rivers. Let's face it.
(17:51):
I mean, they didn't exactly have the greatest coaches a
lot of their prime I mean, can you imagine if
those two guys would have had a Sean McVay, Kyle Shanahana,
Kevin o'k who knows the way we talk about that
run of like I remember those four out of the
last seven years the Chargers have been in the championship
game and made a couple of Super Bowls. And that's
the difference of just like, oh that one time Joe
(18:11):
Burrow made the Super Bowl or he's going competing to
go to the Super Bowl every single year. So you
would have to short the Browns or excuse me, the
Bengals because usually an owner old guy like Jerry. I've
known a lot of older businessmen that usually don't become
more open minded in their mid seventies. That's not how
it works, so this is not changing with the Brown family.
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Speaker 1 (19:58):
So just from Afar, you know you have to be
careful about OTA's and mini camps and camps. So the
mica thing from Afar feels like a circus. But when
you're covering it, does it feel like a circus?
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (20:14):
I mean I've seen a circus, and it involved Terrell
Owens and his arrival here and the cryo chamber or
whatever he had, the barometric pressure that he brought out,
all the weird stuff he had that was circus like.
But yeah, this is it's a circus from the outside
(20:35):
and here because you have the star player out there. Yesterday,
I got out early to practice and watched him and
he did not wear his team issued jersey, which Schottenheimer
wanted him to wear, and then they went and talked
to him and convinced him to put on his jersey.
But I'm just no, matter what's happening in camp, it's
(20:57):
like looms over everything. And so I have been at
Camp four when there's a big thing going on in
a huge trade.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
I remember the Eagles beat the.
Speaker 5 (21:08):
Cowboys to Ocean Wah, you know, the big the cornerback
that Nomdae Oceanwah one year, and boy Jerry's beating over
that deal because he was trying to get a deal
and that was all happening in real time, but we
watched it all happening.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
And this is a little bit like that.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
In that daily we're.
Speaker 5 (21:25):
Spending as much time with our cameras in our eyes
on Micah as we are what's happening on the field.
It's too bad because I think while Micah Shodenheimer have
really developed a nice report, I feel like it's overshadowing
and somewhat undermining his full operation.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Well, I mean lost in all of it is the
fact that George Pickens a really difficult guy to cover.
I mean, he's very He's a very gifted guy. Emotional,
can be juvenile, but with Ceedee Lamb and George pick
it's just pure in terms of pure talent. Those are
tremendously gifted receivers. What are we getting from that side
(22:08):
of the football? Football related Dak CD and.
Speaker 5 (22:11):
Pickens, you know, I would say, and we had a
good long visit with Pickens yesterday doing our Doomsday podcast.
We had murder and you talk about a guy who
is in heaven.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
I mean it's remarkable.
Speaker 5 (22:28):
And he and CD together, it's the best duo they've
had in many years. You know, CD and Amari Cooper
were together. I think there's the potential because now CD's
older and he's become a superstar, and Pickens is in
such a good headspace because he needed to get out
(22:51):
of Pittsburgh it's a contract year. It's just like the
opposite of Micah's thing. Micah is just this all this
drama George could not.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Be had, and he believes that he's in. You know,
I know we go back and forth on what Dak.
Speaker 5 (23:05):
Prescott is, but what Dak Prescott is is way better
than anything the Steelers have had the past three seasons,
and so pull yesterday he said, I'm gonna go for
twelve hundred yards this season, and I wouldn't I wouldn't
doubt it because one thing they're trying to do is
instead of just throwing fades and vertical routes and go routes,
because they're hitting him on bubble.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
Screens, drags crossers.
Speaker 5 (23:29):
And I even watched him yesterday there was some something
the Cowboys do like on a rub route to get
CD open.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
I mean, I'm just telling you.
Speaker 5 (23:38):
This guy is the happiest guy in camp like that.
I came away from that George Pickens interview thinking I
have not seen you know, te O is always brooding
and weird, and again I had a really rough relationship
with him and all that, but this guy is just beaming.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
Now I get it.
Speaker 5 (23:57):
Let's let's see how he is when they don't prow
to him for whole game or something like that. But
right now, man, that those connections look good and what
it's done, it's freed up whoever's going to be. Third
wide receiver Jalen Tolbert Meingingo, Jalen Brooks, Like those guys
now have less pressure on them. And like yesterday, two
of those guys made like incredible circus catches And I
(24:20):
just think they have less pressure because they you have
two stars and they can just go be.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
That's what Aikman always used.
Speaker 5 (24:26):
To tell me, is that he cared more about the
third receiver than he did the second receiver. And what
it was is he just felt like with Alvin Harper
and Michael they paid so much attention that Chilvin Martin
was his favorite guy because he knew he was always
going to reopen.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
So anyway, I would say right.
Speaker 5 (24:46):
Now the receiving, the receivers plus the quarterback, that's a
very positive thing about this camp.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Well, the Live Tour makes it stop in Chicago. Just
part of the journey of Live and it's unique style
and its popularity. And anybody that listens to me knows
that I have supported the Live Tour from the beginning.
I never loved the way the PGA Tour, which was
officially a charity, treated some of its golfers. And I
had said for years that Greg Norman's and Phil Mickelson's
(25:16):
had verbally come out and said they were disappointed, and
so when they left, I supported them and still do.
Kevin naw also made that decision. And you know, when
I defended live golfers, one of the things I said was,
you know, these guys grew up wanting to be on
the PGA Tour. They dreamt of the US Open and
(25:37):
Pebble Beach and the Masters. So this was a hard decision.
A lot of people looked at the dollars and said, well,
it's easy now. When you have a dream and you
land it, it's hard to separate you from that dream.
Do you remember, Kevin, the day, the week, the car
ride when you and your family decided I'm going to
(25:58):
leave the PGA to two And do you remember the
emotional moment of that, the epiphany.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yes, I do.
Speaker 7 (26:05):
It wasn't an easy decision. I thought about it for
for weeks. I just discussed it with my team, my
family and even you know, I haven't had a top
with jam onhand before I left, Like I literally called them,
you know, with the pape when I had the offer
and I had the contract, and I waited a bunch
of options. But at the time, there were some of
(26:30):
the things that some of the players would have would
wanted to see changing the PGA Tour, the direction of
the PEDIA Tour, wanted to go, and none of those
things were happening. And when this living the lead was
forming and the offers were going out, and it was
a great opportunity for me because I played the PGA
Tour for nineteen years and I love it. I loved
every minute of it, and I was grateful to be there.
(26:51):
I enjoyed it. It was a great platform for me
to play, and I'm grateful and thankful. But when this
opportunity came along to play this team style with individual
team play around the world and at the same time,
you know, have some security, not that I didn't with
(27:11):
Pediatur you know, I was pretty successful out there as well,
but it sound like it was a new challenge and
it was exciting and a lot of the great names
of the game of the golf were joining, and I
wanted to be a part of it. I wanted to
be a part of this new adventure and that's the
reason why I made the job.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
You know, I think they're initially in Like any change
in life, there's animosity. People don't like change. In America,
forty percent of Americans never live outside of the area
code they were born in. Isn't that crazy? So so
when there was change, I remember going on the air
(27:49):
and saying, yeah, there's going to be some animosity, there's
gonna be some emotion with it. Did do you think
that's dissipated over the last year, that that initial shock
is now Well, I can watch the Shambo at this tournament,
I can watch Kevin Nall here. Is that there's a
realization that this is what's happening in all business.
Speaker 7 (28:11):
Yeah, I think in the beginning, you know, like you said,
people are not comfortable with change.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
And when we were.
Speaker 7 (28:19):
Making this chump, you know, the PGA tour, a lot
of the media, you know, they said it's not going
to happen, They're going to fold in six months, four months.
You know, it's never going to last. But we've the
league has proven that we're sticking around. And you know,
and when our players, you know Brooks want a major
rice and want a major when you know playing live
(28:39):
and where, and these guys are still playing well in
major championship and showing good performance and watching us grow.
They're starting to realize that we're not doing and we're
sticking around. And that's the same time when the PGA
Tour is asking for investment from p IF. Then you
know all those you know.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
At tacks of.
Speaker 7 (29:02):
Towards the players that made the first jump is kind
of it's been silenced a little bit.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
I've always loved Phil Micholson and I read a I
don't think there's a book about him.
Speaker 4 (29:13):
I don't think he loves the book.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
But I loved him more when I read the book
because he's so unapologic, unapologetically Phil Mickelson. And there was
a point in his life he probably he probably ate
a little too much. He was a little more obnoxious
with tour members. Michelson's a character and but what I
love about him he leans into it. Now now you're
(29:36):
getting the older, more mature, wiser Phil Mickelson. Have you
watched him chain, I guess have you seen the change
in Phil in the last twenty years when you've been
around him ever, played with him, played against him.
Speaker 4 (29:50):
Have you seen it?
Speaker 7 (29:51):
Yeah, I've seen skinny Phil, shot Phil, gambling, Phil, drinking Phil. Look,
he's been nothing but great to me. First time I
played with him, I was twenty one years old. We
played in the final group. That's the first time I
put it in the final group at the Phoenix Open.
He ended up winning the term and I finished second.
And he's been nothing but great to him. You can
(30:12):
always go go to in ask for any advice, whether
it's golf, game, life, meeting you want, he would give
you his time, his sincerity. He's been nothing too great.
I think he is the same way right now to
all the younger kids out here. I think he's a
great leader. Like whether I don't not. Obviously, you know,
(30:35):
you can't please everybody, but a lot of the people
out here respect him, and I personally respect him, and
I'm a big fan of Phil, and I think what
he's done for the game of golf we had to
be thankful for.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
I was not mature enough at twenty two to twenty
three to be like a professional quarterback in the NFL.
You know, the leader of a billion dollar franchise. You
guys are not on a team necessarily, although you are
the iron Heads on the LIB too now. But Bryson
de Shamble was a fascinating guy. I didn't love him
when he came out. I didn't like him. You know,
(31:08):
the thirteen pieces of bacon, the nine protein shakes. I'm like,
this feels like he's selling me something. It's too obnoxious.
He pivoted over the last two years. I find him
incredibly likable now. And I go back to he was young.
He was a good looking, big testosterone. Have you noticed
(31:31):
his personality. He feels a little humbled, a little more,
a little wiser. But I find him now incredibly likable,
and I didn't four years ago.
Speaker 7 (31:42):
I always joked to him. I was like, look, I
was nice to you before you became a big star
and before you were likable.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
I always liked.
Speaker 7 (31:51):
Him from day one. You know. I remember talking to
him before when he wasn't playing so good, and you know,
when he was doing the side straddle, and I'll come
talk to him about on the putting green, what his
theories were. And I played with him in the QB
team play chart shootout. What a year?
Speaker 3 (32:07):
What was this?
Speaker 7 (32:07):
I can't even remember twenty seventeen or eighteen, whatever it was,
we've teamed up. We finished third, and I got to
know him pretty well then, how he played the game
and what his you know, all these calculations that he made,
and it was it was fascinating him. He would calculate
puts off the green from what the fairies were running
at stemp, and then from the green on to the
hole that how many feet that is and that stemp
and he would with the slope and you would say,
(32:30):
this put's playing forty seven feet and he did and
hit it like perfect speed or make it and it
was incredible. But I think people got to know him
and watch him mature and grow up and became this likable,
interesting character, and we need more characters like that in
the golf game. Whether you like him or not, and
(32:51):
I think most people do like him. He's he's an
interesting guy. And what he's done with his body and
his game, the transformation that he's gone through, it's incredible.
He's an incredibly talented player. I always enjoyed my conversations
with him. But look, you know, when you're twenty one,
twenty two and you're a millionaire, and you know, you
think you have the world bides you know, you know,
(33:12):
it's a little bit of a growing I bet that
was the same way when I was young. There you
and I turned pro at seventeen and got on the
tour when I was twenty. You know, when you're county
and but you need a little bit of that to
make it so. I think if you kind of look
at that and get to understand the guy and get
to understand the players, I mean, we're not We're much
better than football and other other sports. I mean, we're
(33:35):
much more mature and more well behaved, i'd say, but
it's I think we watched him grow up.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
There's a legendary piece of footage. I'm talking to Kevin
Naw about you and Tiger Woods when your speak play
after you hit the pot and he does the same
thing Tiger. There's only two athletes in my lifetime, Tiger
Woods and Michael Jordan. That literally changed how I watched TV.
I would cancel stuff on a Sunday to watch Tiger Woods. Yeah,
(34:06):
do you think that was it?
Speaker 4 (34:08):
You know, it was sort of.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
It wasn't obviously pre internet, but it was a pre
TikTok golf felt those games felt those tournaments with Tiger,
it just felt like otherworldly. You think golf will ever
have that again?
Speaker 7 (34:24):
Yeah, I think so. I think Bryson is his closest
to you know, the excitement. I think Rory's pretty exciting.
I think Rom's pretty exciting, and Jouquin's becoming that player
as well. I think there's different characters of the game
that bring that kind of energy. Obviously, Tiger was you know,
his dominating in his you know, his power, and he's
(34:46):
blowing the field a way and you know, even though
he's four back with nine to Plague, they're like, oh,
he's got to win. You know, he's gonna go on
this crazy run. And I remember watching as a kid
and I'm I mean, you know, being a fan of Tiger,
it's it's incredible. I mean, but I think there are
characters that can follow his footsteps or become maybe not
(35:07):
that Tiger Wood's icon level, but you know, up close
to that level, and we can have three or four
guys kind of equal tighter, you know what I mean.
But I think golf has become more more entertaining, more
exciting than than before. Back in nineties, I grew up
watching golf, you know, in the nineties, you know, and
you know I became a pro in the early two
(35:28):
thousand and I played all these with these guys on
the senior tour that's playing now. And I think golf
has become more entertaining. I mean there's more characters of
the game. I mean you got you know, Bryce and
that bombs and cuts corners. You got Rovery also, you
know Scotti, Shaffer getting arrested.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
I mean there's I think it's entertaining.
Speaker 7 (35:48):
I mean, you know, we have some John Daily, you
know the you know, the former John Days of the
guys right now. Look, I think golf is in a
good place. Accept this division. I think once this we
find a way to get the players back together more often.
I think I think golf is going to go up
(36:09):
another level. The volume
I'm gonna still stick with my prediction that JJ McCarthy
will if he does have success. It's a little bit
of a brock Pretty thing. It's the coach, it's the
left tackle, it's the weapons that will put him in
a place that I think elevates him beyond what he
would be with average personnel, average coach or bad. I
(00:33):
don't think brock Party is good enough to save a
bad situation, but I think in the current situation with
Trent Williams, Kittle, Jennings, Shanahan, McCaffrey, I think more than capable,
I tend to think McCarthy's going to fall into that.
I mean left tackle, head coach, running back, tight end.
I think I think JJ McCarthy would have to be
(00:55):
bad not to have some brock Pretty level success where
you know, oh, he's not a physical specimen, but he
can complete passes and move the chains.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
I do think though he you know, brock Purdy got
to come in toward middle of the end of the year, right,
so there was less pressure, and let's face it, when
Jimmy Garoppolo shattered his ankle, that the expectations for brock
Purty were zilch. I mean I thought their season was over,
and then the kid just started rattling off games. You know,
for JJ McCarthy, a little like Trey Lance when the
(01:25):
forty nine ers drafted him, kind of like Caleb, but
we didn't really believe in Eberflus. It's pretty rare that
a guy that was drafted pretty high starts on a
team that, what do you think is a fair expectations
anything less than the NFC Championship game with their roster,
their coaching staff. It's really really high, you know, It's
not like nine to eight and some growing pains. You know,
(01:46):
justin Jefferson had some comments within the last week. You
can just tell it's like our expectations here are high,
and it's like this is a work in progress.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Now.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
The good thing is you can get better, right He
might not be same with Caleb saying, with a lot
of these guys, what they look like in September, they
might look a lot better in November. But it can
go the other way too. It can break you. So
if you have a couple of tough games, how do
you handle that adversity? That's that's really what all the
NFL is right, is handling the tough times to get
to the better times.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
I was reading somebody in the Athletic rank the coaching staffs,
and I didn't disagree. He had Minnesota as the best
coaching staff in the league. I think he had San
Francisco with Kyle and solid two.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Are you talking the whole staff?
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Yeah, I mean basically head coach, top two coordinators. He
had Minnesota number one. And I think, and I've said
this about brock Purty. I mean literally he got the
keys to a Mercedes. You get Shanahan, McCaffrey, Trent Williams
at the time, Debo Iu Kittle. I mean that's hard
to mess up. I mean, if you're just capable, if
you're quick above the shoulders, which I think JJ McCarthy
(02:48):
and Brock Purty are. I think they're smart guys. The
downside to it is it's not it's a hard eval
It's hard to evaluate somebody when they're I mean, it
would be like putting somebody with Charles Barklay Shack and
Ernie Johnson. It's hard to really say what. Kenny Smith
(03:10):
is certainly capable, but his role on that show is
to kind of poke the bear and just kind of
have fun and be the straight man, and so it
is hard to make. It's an easy evaluation on Jaden
Daniels last year. Oh shit, he's carrying a bad online,
a defensive coach, a one weapon offense.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
It's like Andrew luck easy a Herbert's rookie year. Wow,
this is impressive. I think JJ's going to be a
hard evaluation because how much of the success is based.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
On I mean, let's be honest.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Last year, in Week fourteen, Sam Darnald was first or
second in MVP. He was a bust going to Minnesota.
So like now, I don't even know quite what to
make of Donald.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
What is Donald?
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Well, I'm pretty high, I think Donald. I think their
team's going to be pretty good, you know, giving health,
the talent in Seattle, I would expect, you know, pretty
high things for Sam, maybe not throw thirty five touchdowns,
but to just be a solid player in the NFL
moving forward, you know, be a guy that's on the
good side of the top fifteen of the quarterbacks, not
you know, somewhere between twenty two and thirty two, like
(04:21):
most people thought he just sucked. But one thing, going
back to Donald, he said that change his career was
not just Kyle believing him, but watching brock Purty operate.
And the thing that separated brock Purty immediately was not
his height, was not his arm strength. It was all
the intangible stuff which he had built for four years
at let's face it, when he got there kind of
(04:42):
an average football program that him and Matt Campbell transitioned
into a high level football program where he was getting
offered by USC and that big reason was because of
brock Purty, you know. I mean, let's face it, mel
Tucker got some big jobs because you know, got a
huge extension because of Kenneth Walker. Sometimes one or two individuals, yeah,
at not the top tier programs can change the course
(05:04):
of your career. So brock Purdy, his intangibles are a
huge separating factor for why you know, all the guys
with the forty nine ers, coaches and players believe in them,
you know, JJ, He's just gonna have to prove it,
you know, and it's gonna have to be part of
his repertoire. Are you getting there at five in the morning,
Are you grinding Monday through Saturday? Because that's all these quarterbacks,
(05:26):
that's all they talk about. It's not just the grind
on Tom Brady's been talking about Mondays and Tuesdays for
fifteen years.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
So you and I both agree on this that the
Terry McLaurin situation in Washington is troubling. So I liked
the Deebo acquisition because he's a chess piece and Cliff
Kingsbury would be. You know, a play designer is good
with chess pieces, but Debo is not as good consistently,
(05:55):
or as healthy consistently, or as productive consistently as Terry McLaurin.
And Terry's been the guy that's been I mean because
of where he was drafted. Terry hasn't gotten the huge
payday yet. In fact, you could argue before amor On
Saint Brown's contract that McLaurin and omor On Saint Brown
are the most under underpaid weapons in the league. So
I actually get Terry McLaurin saying guys like I have
(06:19):
outperformed my contract fourfold. Deebo is a guy that's not
going to be a center piece, more of a chess piece,
struggles to stay healthy. No, no, no, no this, I'm not
doing any team favors on this.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
I kind of side with Terry mcclaurin.
Speaker 5 (06:37):
Here.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
You Belichick talked about this for a long time, the
locker room dynamics and money. I mean, you're dealing with
young people who value themselves based on their contract relative
to their peers. You know, it's hard with NFL contracts
because it's convoluted, because a signing bonus is and pro
rated money. But basically they make a very similar amount
of actual cash going into their bank account week one
(06:59):
through seven this year, Debo and Terry McLaurin last time
I checked. Terry McLaurin had thirteen touchdowns last year and
it was a massive reason that Jayden Daniels became a star.
And if you're him, like what about all the sweat
equity when this franchise was a joke. Yeah, I was
the good guy doing the right thing. You bring in
this other guy who is the GM's guy right from
the forty nine ers, but he peaked, you know, part
(07:21):
of the reasons Kyle got rid of him. He's like
chubby wide receiver. When do you ever hear about that, Like,
couldn't stay in shape, got moodies, asked for trades before.
Now he comes and we're making similar money. These are
human beings, right, I totally understand, Like that's not really
I feel like a part of the reporting. It's not
like and Terry would come out and say I'm jealous
or angry because but you can't tell me that didn't
(07:43):
play a part. You think I'm gonna make the same
amount of money as this guy. You know we're both
in contract years. Yet I this is my team, which
I've been here from day one. You just bring in
this guy. I also wonder if it showed him like
what this administration they weren't my people, So I better
be pretty careful now. They're gonna want me to like
on the line now. But what if I get hurt
and then I can't get a contract after this year?
(08:03):
They don't care. They'll just move on. Because wide receivers
this isn't you know, tackle or defensive ends not it's not.
It's a pretty easy position to replace. Even if Debo fails.
They could just draft a guy next year in the
first round or the second round, or hit on a
guy in the fourth round. Who knows, maybe McCaffrey's brother
becomes a fifty catch guy. It's an easy you could argue,
it's the easiest position now to find.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Oh I can name off the top of my head
the tank Dells and the Puka Nakuas and the Amora
on Saint Brown's rounds four or five, Jennings and San Francisco's.
I think it's seventh round guy wide receivers easily now.
Now it can be the most inflammable and bustable first
round pick because they come in.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
You know, it's an ego position.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
They come in the first round, but by and large
it's I just I look at Terry McLaurin and I
tried to personalize it, and I'm thinking, he's been a
good guy, he's been productive, he was the star. He is,
to a large degree, is the one thing you could
build Aiden Daniels around, not the old line of the
run game or tight end. I think you have to
(09:05):
take care of him. And for the record, I wouldn't
have said this ten years ago, but you can pay
two weapons now and they're not paying a running back
big money or a tight end like ten years ago.
The money was dispersed often more on the defense than offense.
In New England it was I mean Brady was taking
cuts in the NFL. Now, the Rams like the Rams,
(09:27):
the Chiefs, they pay like one defensive player. So I'm
okay paying two weapons. I'm okay with t Higgins and
Jamar Chase, I'm okay with it.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Well, imagine if you're terry too. So you look around
and you go listen. I'm not even comparing myself to
Jamar Chase or Ceedee Lamb or Justin Jefferson, but let's
go dk Metcalf the next year. Guys who early on
in his career had like the greatest start ever. Last
couple of years have been weird. The guy that gets
penalties every game, and Seattle's like, yeah, we're kind of
out of this business. He said, he asked for a trade.
(09:59):
I think they were ready to pivot, and he goes, well,
he just gets one hundred and fifty million dollars and
sixty seventy million dollars in guaranteed, and he's a question
mark of like can you corral this guy? He's like
a better version of some of these crazy guys. I
am everything you would want, character check all these boxes
and I produce and I can't get you. Guys won't
(10:20):
even offer me anything. So they want him, and it's
the NFL. It's cut thrown. I totally understand it, but
I think they want him just to play this season
on the fifteen million dollars and then evaluate after that. Now,
this is this isn't the NBA, right when these guys
ask for trades like you don't just he's gone, Like
that's not how they're going to operate. And I think
these guys know now that they'll get fined and they
(10:40):
can't take them back. So they show up so they
don't get fifty thousand dollars a day, but they don't
really have to do anything. But is it worth having
this guy who's kind of the heartbeat of your one
of the heart beats team got being mad in a
weird mood like the expectations for Washington. This is why
it's hard. And all these coaches say, what happened last
year is kind of irrelevant this year because guys want
(11:02):
to get paid. Guys got injured, some guys are gone,
but every team is they had nothing but good vibes
last year. Now this year it's like huh yeah no.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
And the other thing is, this is not the NBA
where it's hard to name a player whose career was
ended because of an injury. It's the same in baseball
outside of pitchers and arms. I mean, baseball careers can
last forever. In football, it's just one shot to the knee.
You're not the same wide receiver. So like I get
the psychology of mclaurin's, Like, bro, I'm taking I take
(11:33):
hits at practice. Like we can all name ten pro
football careers have been ended early because of injuries. It
doesn't happen in basketball and baseball or hockey as much.
So I get mclaurin's. There's a certain insecurity about football players.
I get I want to get paid.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Totally, and I think they see it at training camp
and we're numb to it as fans and coaches and
gms don't care. But you see guys every single day.
So and so shattered his leg, so and so ripped
his achilles a lot of times. It's like the seventy
fifth man, So no one cares. Those players are standing
there right in that drill and see the cart come out,
and they knew that guy help. It might be their buddy.
They might have been eating lunch with them, was on
(12:11):
the practice squad, They've been hanging out with them for
a couple of years. They see that cart leaving with
his helmet, they go, his career could be over, and
then a couple of days later he's waved injured. And
so for every time that we see well, because I
always say this, most good players see the majority of
their contract, like Russell Wilson is kind of an outline
if you look at the landscape of the league, all
(12:32):
the top players. Because we haven't had catastrophic injury to
a lot of the top players in recent years, they're
seeing all the guaranteed money and the non guaranteed money
of their contract. But it's just I wouldn't take that
risk if our any of these guys either, because all
it takes is one guy fall in India and your
career is done, or you're just never the same and
(12:52):
all of a sudden you go from a twenty million
dollar player to a veteran minimum guy.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
So Mike Brown's the old owner of the Bengals, and
he kind of lashed out and said, you know, the
Trey Hendricks and stuff.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
You know, he goes.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
A lot of media makes good points, but a lot
of media is just talking. And I was thinking about
it as I was flying from Rhode Island back to
Chicago tonight. It is hard to have an a level
quarterback and missed the playoffs. Fourteen of the thirty two
teams make it, so forty percent of the league makes it.
(13:26):
Joe Burrow, there's an argument, was the most efficient quarterback
in the league last year. It's much more than Mahomes,
So there was an argument on a week to week
basis just efficiency quarterback rating, Burrow was the best.
Speaker 4 (13:39):
Quarterback in the league last year. But think about this
in an offensive.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
League and they didn't make the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
They didn't make it.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
That's almost john impossible in the NFL in twenty twenty
four to twenty five. If your quarterback, I mean it's
you don't even have to have a great quarterback. You
can have a quarterback having a great year. Sam Darnold,
you're gonna win thirteen twelve, thirteen fourteen games. They didn't
make the playoffs. And the reason they didn't make the playoffs.
So you say, well it's the coach, Well then fire him. Well,
(14:11):
they won't do that because you'd have to pay out
a couple of years the contract is is we so
Trey Hendrickson, They literally I think they're thirty second in
quarterback pressures without Trey Hendrickson like he is their pass
rush and they're I mean, he's it, He's the pass
rush and there I mean, listen, Philadelphia can get pressure
(14:32):
on the quarterback whe or without Jalen Carter. Jalen Carter
is the game changer. He's like one of one, his
body type, his quickness, Hendrickson's not great against the run,
but he is their pass rush. But this is like
the fourth straight year. There's a contract squabble here, there's
there's a third straight year. Do you think if Cincinnati
(14:52):
doesn't make the playoffs again and and and will give
Burrow another great year because he's a great player. Do
you think Burrow would just say just go scorts to
Earth and.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
Say because I do.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
I think.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
I think Joe is bright, self aware. You're starting to
see him now do stuff in Paris in the offseason.
He is so frustrated with the organization, he gets away
from it, like he goes abroad. He's not gonna stay
in Ohio. I think if they I think they're the
fascinating team. If Cincinnati misses the playoffs, I think Joe
(15:26):
Burrow and his representatives may get ugly.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
The problem is we've seen how Mike Brown operates in
that scenario, he just tells you to kick rocks. Either
with Carson Palmer, He's done it this offseason, He's done
it in years past. I think they like the Bears last year,
it's like, you should have fired I Reflute, you could
have hired Mike Vrabel and you're probably a playoff team
in Caleb No one, We're not even talking about it.
He's just solid, right, he just would have worked. And
this offseason the Chargers went through this forever like Anthony Lynn,
(15:52):
Mike McCoy, Brandon Staley says, hire a real coach. What
did they finally do Jim Harbaugh? Who does everyone boughts
for the last two years? The Chargers Why because they
got a real coach and this is a team. Imagine
if they had fired Zach Taylor last year. Like obviously
the Bears being in Chicago is a hard job to
pass up, especially they're gonna pay a lot of money.
(16:13):
But to coach Joe Burrow, I mean, I'm sorry, like
you're kind of remembered on wins and losses, not just
like well I coached the Bears. Well if you lost,
no one cares, right, no one's really talking about Matt Maggie, right,
he would rather coach Joe Burrow than mis Tubisky. So
does do they get Ben Johnson to just Mike Vrabel, like, Hey,
I want that job over Drake. It's Joe Burrow. So
(16:34):
I think that it's hard to overcome this when you
hire chief coaches, and that's kind of listen. Zach Taylor's
probably a nice guy, and you know, solid NFL mind,
but we're not talking Sean McVay, Kyle Shanning. He's not
super dynamic. The organization isn't super dynamic. But you can
overcome that. Like, no one ever said that about the
Chargers till they got Jim Harbaugh and then they said
Jim Harba said to listen, but you want me, I
(16:54):
need X, Y and Z. And now they're paying big
money for all these people and you feel.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Good about them.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
But the difference is the LA market and the deal
that Dean Spanos has, you know, like the dollar a
year lease is they are swimming in cash because the
LA market drives so much revenue. Cincinnati doesn't. Their game
day revenue is near the bottom of the league. So
Brown won't pay fifteen million for a coach and twenty
(17:20):
four million for a staff. I don't think they'll pay
half that, whereas Spanos can go listen so.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
Far as a bank so far is unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Or if they won't, Joe Burrow's got to ask out then
soon because you know, or their team's good enough they
can overcome it. But if that's the case, they go
nine to eight and they miss it again, it's clear
that their coaching staff sucks. They fire them, and then
next year, whoever the hot guy is, they end up
with a third tier guy. It's like, you gotta get
out because this is we've seen this song and dance.
I saw Antonio Gates point at Philip Rivers. Let's face it.
(17:51):
I mean, they didn't exactly have the greatest coaches a
lot of their prime I mean, can you imagine if
those two guys would have had a Sean McVay, Kyle Shanahana,
Kevin o'k who knows the way we talk about that
run of like I remember those four out of the
last seven years the Chargers have been in the championship
game and made a couple of Super Bowls. And that's
the difference of just like, oh that one time Joe
(18:11):
Burrow made the Super Bowl or he's going competing to
go to the Super Bowl every single year. So you
would have to short the Browns or excuse me, the
Bengals because usually an owner old guy like Jerry. I've
known a lot of older businessmen that usually don't become
more open minded in their mid seventies. That's not how
it works, so this is not changing with the Brown family.
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Speaker 1 (19:58):
So just from Afar, you know you have to be
careful about OTA's and mini camps and camps. So the
mica thing from Afar feels like a circus. But when
you're covering it, does it feel like a circus?
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (20:14):
I mean I've seen a circus, and it involved Terrell
Owens and his arrival here and the cryo chamber or
whatever he had, the barometric pressure that he brought out,
all the weird stuff he had that was circus like.
But yeah, this is it's a circus from the outside
(20:35):
and here because you have the star player out there. Yesterday,
I got out early to practice and watched him and
he did not wear his team issued jersey, which Schottenheimer
wanted him to wear, and then they went and talked
to him and convinced him to put on his jersey.
But I'm just no, matter what's happening in camp, it's
(20:57):
like looms over everything. And so I have been at
Camp four when there's a big thing going on in
a huge trade.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
I remember the Eagles beat the.
Speaker 5 (21:08):
Cowboys to Ocean Wah, you know, the big the cornerback
that Nomdae Oceanwah one year, and boy Jerry's beating over
that deal because he was trying to get a deal
and that was all happening in real time, but we
watched it all happening.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
And this is a little bit like that.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
In that daily we're.
Speaker 5 (21:25):
Spending as much time with our cameras in our eyes
on Micah as we are what's happening on the field.
It's too bad because I think while Micah Shodenheimer have
really developed a nice report, I feel like it's overshadowing
and somewhat undermining his full operation.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Well, I mean lost in all of it is the
fact that George Pickens a really difficult guy to cover.
I mean, he's very He's a very gifted guy. Emotional,
can be juvenile, but with Ceedee Lamb and George pick
it's just pure in terms of pure talent. Those are
tremendously gifted receivers. What are we getting from that side
(22:08):
of the football? Football related Dak CD and.
Speaker 5 (22:11):
Pickens, you know, I would say, and we had a
good long visit with Pickens yesterday doing our Doomsday podcast.
We had murder and you talk about a guy who
is in heaven.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
I mean it's remarkable.
Speaker 5 (22:28):
And he and CD together, it's the best duo they've
had in many years. You know, CD and Amari Cooper
were together. I think there's the potential because now CD's
older and he's become a superstar, and Pickens is in
such a good headspace because he needed to get out
(22:51):
of Pittsburgh it's a contract year. It's just like the
opposite of Micah's thing. Micah is just this all this
drama George could not.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Be had, and he believes that he's in. You know,
I know we go back and forth on what Dak.
Speaker 5 (23:05):
Prescott is, but what Dak Prescott is is way better
than anything the Steelers have had the past three seasons,
and so pull yesterday he said, I'm gonna go for
twelve hundred yards this season, and I wouldn't I wouldn't
doubt it because one thing they're trying to do is
instead of just throwing fades and vertical routes and go routes,
because they're hitting him on bubble.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
Screens, drags crossers.
Speaker 5 (23:29):
And I even watched him yesterday there was some something
the Cowboys do like on a rub route to get
CD open.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
I mean, I'm just telling you.
Speaker 5 (23:38):
This guy is the happiest guy in camp like that.
I came away from that George Pickens interview thinking I
have not seen you know, te O is always brooding
and weird, and again I had a really rough relationship
with him and all that, but this guy is just beaming.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
Now I get it.
Speaker 5 (23:57):
Let's let's see how he is when they don't prow
to him for whole game or something like that. But
right now, man, that those connections look good and what
it's done, it's freed up whoever's going to be. Third
wide receiver Jalen Tolbert Meingingo, Jalen Brooks, Like those guys
now have less pressure on them. And like yesterday, two
of those guys made like incredible circus catches And I
(24:20):
just think they have less pressure because they you have
two stars and they can just go be.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
That's what Aikman always used.
Speaker 5 (24:26):
To tell me, is that he cared more about the
third receiver than he did the second receiver. And what
it was is he just felt like with Alvin Harper
and Michael they paid so much attention that Chilvin Martin
was his favorite guy because he knew he was always
going to reopen.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
So anyway, I would say right.
Speaker 5 (24:46):
Now the receiving, the receivers plus the quarterback, that's a
very positive thing about this camp.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Well, the Live Tour makes it stop in Chicago. Just
part of the journey of Live and it's unique style
and its popularity. And anybody that listens to me knows
that I have supported the Live Tour from the beginning.
I never loved the way the PGA Tour, which was
officially a charity, treated some of its golfers. And I
had said for years that Greg Norman's and Phil Mickelson's
(25:16):
had verbally come out and said they were disappointed, and
so when they left, I supported them and still do.
Kevin naw also made that decision. And you know, when
I defended live golfers, one of the things I said was,
you know, these guys grew up wanting to be on
the PGA Tour. They dreamt of the US Open and
(25:37):
Pebble Beach and the Masters. So this was a hard decision.
A lot of people looked at the dollars and said, well,
it's easy now. When you have a dream and you
land it, it's hard to separate you from that dream.
Do you remember, Kevin, the day, the week, the car
ride when you and your family decided I'm going to
(25:58):
leave the PGA to two And do you remember the
emotional moment of that, the epiphany.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yes, I do.
Speaker 7 (26:05):
It wasn't an easy decision. I thought about it for
for weeks. I just discussed it with my team, my
family and even you know, I haven't had a top
with jam onhand before I left, Like I literally called them,
you know, with the pape when I had the offer
and I had the contract, and I waited a bunch
of options. But at the time, there were some of
(26:30):
the things that some of the players would have would
wanted to see changing the PGA Tour, the direction of
the PEDIA Tour, wanted to go, and none of those
things were happening. And when this living the lead was
forming and the offers were going out, and it was
a great opportunity for me because I played the PGA
Tour for nineteen years and I love it. I loved
every minute of it, and I was grateful to be there.
(26:51):
I enjoyed it. It was a great platform for me
to play, and I'm grateful and thankful. But when this
opportunity came along to play this team style with individual
team play around the world and at the same time,
you know, have some security, not that I didn't with
(27:11):
Pediatur you know, I was pretty successful out there as well,
but it sound like it was a new challenge and
it was exciting and a lot of the great names
of the game of the golf were joining, and I
wanted to be a part of it. I wanted to
be a part of this new adventure and that's the
reason why I made the job.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
You know, I think they're initially in Like any change
in life, there's animosity. People don't like change. In America,
forty percent of Americans never live outside of the area
code they were born in. Isn't that crazy? So so
when there was change, I remember going on the air
(27:49):
and saying, yeah, there's going to be some animosity, there's
gonna be some emotion with it. Did do you think
that's dissipated over the last year, that that initial shock
is now Well, I can watch the Shambo at this tournament,
I can watch Kevin Nall here. Is that there's a
realization that this is what's happening in all business.
Speaker 7 (28:11):
Yeah, I think in the beginning, you know, like you said,
people are not comfortable with change.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
And when we were.
Speaker 7 (28:19):
Making this chump, you know, the PGA tour, a lot
of the media, you know, they said it's not going
to happen, They're going to fold in six months, four months.
You know, it's never going to last. But we've the
league has proven that we're sticking around. And you know,
and when our players, you know Brooks want a major
rice and want a major when you know playing live
(28:39):
and where, and these guys are still playing well in
major championship and showing good performance and watching us grow.
They're starting to realize that we're not doing and we're
sticking around. And that's the same time when the PGA
Tour is asking for investment from p IF. Then you
know all those you know.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
At tacks of.
Speaker 7 (29:02):
Towards the players that made the first jump is kind
of it's been silenced a little bit.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
I've always loved Phil Micholson and I read a I
don't think there's a book about him.
Speaker 4 (29:13):
I don't think he loves the book.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
But I loved him more when I read the book
because he's so unapologic, unapologetically Phil Mickelson. And there was
a point in his life he probably he probably ate
a little too much. He was a little more obnoxious
with tour members. Michelson's a character and but what I
love about him he leans into it. Now now you're
(29:36):
getting the older, more mature, wiser Phil Mickelson. Have you
watched him chain, I guess have you seen the change
in Phil in the last twenty years when you've been
around him ever, played with him, played against him.
Speaker 4 (29:50):
Have you seen it?
Speaker 7 (29:51):
Yeah, I've seen skinny Phil, shot Phil, gambling, Phil, drinking Phil. Look,
he's been nothing but great to me. First time I
played with him, I was twenty one years old. We
played in the final group. That's the first time I
put it in the final group at the Phoenix Open.
He ended up winning the term and I finished second.
And he's been nothing but great to him. You can
(30:12):
always go go to in ask for any advice, whether
it's golf, game, life, meeting you want, he would give
you his time, his sincerity. He's been nothing too great.
I think he is the same way right now to
all the younger kids out here. I think he's a
great leader. Like whether I don't not. Obviously, you know,
(30:35):
you can't please everybody, but a lot of the people
out here respect him, and I personally respect him, and
I'm a big fan of Phil, and I think what
he's done for the game of golf we had to
be thankful for.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
I was not mature enough at twenty two to twenty
three to be like a professional quarterback in the NFL.
You know, the leader of a billion dollar franchise. You
guys are not on a team necessarily, although you are
the iron Heads on the LIB too now. But Bryson
de Shamble was a fascinating guy. I didn't love him
when he came out. I didn't like him. You know,
(31:08):
the thirteen pieces of bacon, the nine protein shakes. I'm like,
this feels like he's selling me something. It's too obnoxious.
He pivoted over the last two years. I find him
incredibly likable now. And I go back to he was young.
He was a good looking, big testosterone. Have you noticed
(31:31):
his personality. He feels a little humbled, a little more,
a little wiser. But I find him now incredibly likable,
and I didn't four years ago.
Speaker 7 (31:42):
I always joked to him. I was like, look, I
was nice to you before you became a big star
and before you were likable.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
I always liked.
Speaker 7 (31:51):
Him from day one. You know. I remember talking to
him before when he wasn't playing so good, and you know,
when he was doing the side straddle, and I'll come
talk to him about on the putting green, what his
theories were. And I played with him in the QB
team play chart shootout. What a year?
Speaker 3 (32:07):
What was this?
Speaker 7 (32:07):
I can't even remember twenty seventeen or eighteen, whatever it was,
we've teamed up. We finished third, and I got to
know him pretty well then, how he played the game
and what his you know, all these calculations that he made,
and it was it was fascinating him. He would calculate
puts off the green from what the fairies were running
at stemp, and then from the green on to the
hole that how many feet that is and that stemp
and he would with the slope and you would say,
(32:30):
this put's playing forty seven feet and he did and
hit it like perfect speed or make it and it
was incredible. But I think people got to know him
and watch him mature and grow up and became this likable,
interesting character, and we need more characters like that in
the golf game. Whether you like him or not, and
(32:51):
I think most people do like him. He's he's an
interesting guy. And what he's done with his body and
his game, the transformation that he's gone through, it's incredible.
He's an incredibly talented player. I always enjoyed my conversations
with him. But look, you know, when you're twenty one,
twenty two and you're a millionaire, and you know, you
think you have the world bides you know, you know,
(33:12):
it's a little bit of a growing I bet that
was the same way when I was young. There you
and I turned pro at seventeen and got on the
tour when I was twenty. You know, when you're county
and but you need a little bit of that to
make it so. I think if you kind of look
at that and get to understand the guy and get
to understand the players, I mean, we're not We're much
better than football and other other sports. I mean, we're
(33:35):
much more mature and more well behaved, i'd say, but
it's I think we watched him grow up.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
There's a legendary piece of footage. I'm talking to Kevin
Naw about you and Tiger Woods when your speak play
after you hit the pot and he does the same
thing Tiger. There's only two athletes in my lifetime, Tiger
Woods and Michael Jordan. That literally changed how I watched TV.
I would cancel stuff on a Sunday to watch Tiger Woods. Yeah,
(34:06):
do you think that was it?
Speaker 4 (34:08):
You know, it was sort of.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
It wasn't obviously pre internet, but it was a pre
TikTok golf felt those games felt those tournaments with Tiger,
it just felt like otherworldly. You think golf will ever
have that again?
Speaker 7 (34:24):
Yeah, I think so. I think Bryson is his closest
to you know, the excitement. I think Rory's pretty exciting.
I think Rom's pretty exciting, and Jouquin's becoming that player
as well. I think there's different characters of the game
that bring that kind of energy. Obviously, Tiger was you know,
his dominating in his you know, his power, and he's
(34:46):
blowing the field a way and you know, even though
he's four back with nine to Plague, they're like, oh,
he's got to win. You know, he's gonna go on
this crazy run. And I remember watching as a kid
and I'm I mean, you know, being a fan of Tiger,
it's it's incredible. I mean, but I think there are
characters that can follow his footsteps or become maybe not
(35:07):
that Tiger Wood's icon level, but you know, up close
to that level, and we can have three or four
guys kind of equal tighter, you know what I mean.
But I think golf has become more more entertaining, more
exciting than than before. Back in nineties, I grew up
watching golf, you know, in the nineties, you know, and
you know I became a pro in the early two
(35:28):
thousand and I played all these with these guys on
the senior tour that's playing now. And I think golf
has become more entertaining. I mean there's more characters of
the game. I mean you got you know, Bryce and
that bombs and cuts corners. You got Rovery also, you
know Scotti, Shaffer getting arrested.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
I mean there's I think it's entertaining.
Speaker 7 (35:48):
I mean, you know, we have some John Daily, you
know the you know, the former John Days of the
guys right now. Look, I think golf is in a
good place. Accept this division. I think once this we
find a way to get the players back together more often.
I think I think golf is going to go up
(36:09):
another level. The volume
Host
Colin Cowherd
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