Shedeur’s Solid Debut, Packers Win The NFC North, Start Jaxson Dart, Cowboys Implosion?

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
All right, welcome in.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Kind of the start pretty much the start of our
Sunday Football podcast, which go an hour plus as John
was in Chicago this weekend with me at the Live
Tour event in Chicago, which was really a good time.
I was thinking about this before I came on. We
got a lot of football to talk about for the
next hour. But like hockey, I never know if things
work on TV. Some stuff works on TV, some doesn't.

(00:35):
But in person, the Live Tour events great, so I
strongly recommended. I am for the entrepreneur. I like new
stuff and big swings, so good for the Live Tour
it was fantastic, a real event, concerts, music everywhere, up
close and personal with the golfers. John was in Chicago
this weekend, so let's just start with that. Your interpretations.

(00:55):
I don't know if John, if you could be a
little dehydrated after our weekend.

Speaker 1 (01:02):
It was a long flight home. We had a good
thirty six hours. Hell of a run. I mean beautiful.
I was telling everyone there I had never been to
Chicago outside of the airports. Beautiful. The suburbs are awesome.
I mean, he's green. You were showing me where you live,
and obviously you have a beautiful house. We had a
good time. We watched some football, watch some golf, hung

(01:23):
out with Scott O'Neil, who's the CEO. Is you know.
The one thing with live Golf, the negativity. A lot
of it stemmed from Greg Norman, who I would say,
on the popularity chart in his sport is pretty low,
you know, and that includes you know, the players on live.
So I think he is not a golf guy, which
I think helps. The PGA tour brings in an NFL

(01:45):
guy not a golf guy, which helps so that they
look at it more from a business sense. I actually
left there feeling pretty optimistic, big picture that things will
get figured out, maybe not like in a month, but
in the next eighteen months, that they will get some
progress and we can stop complaining, because I know I complained.
But yeah, Chicago was awesome. The Tito's was flowing and

(02:05):
that the food was good and we had some chicken
parm last night.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
It was a long We had a long day Saturday.
We were out and about we thought it was five
point fifteen at my house. We were exhausted, and then
in laws showed up and we stayed up till ten
thirty and the tito started flowing in the bombay gin
and it was a good we're just all washing.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
Then NFL family shows up with a full bottle of gin.
I said, geez, you guys are ready to party.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
So I will say I want to start talking about
shudor Sanders.

Speaker 1 (02:36):
We'll start with there.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
So I was just saying today to make it, to
simplify it. These aren't the exact percentages, but I would
say fifty percent of quarterback is traits, you know, and
occasionally a player like big Ban or Cam have remarkable traits.
So those traits are size, movement, athleticism, toughness, you know,
all all the obvious stuff you can see on TV.

(02:59):
The other fifty percent and maybe a smaller percentage is
film study, galvanizing, the locker room, kind of obsessive nature,
pre snap. That's the stuff we can't see. So if
you are Camra big Ben or Josh Allen, where your
traits are like otherworldly, top one percent of quarterbacks in
my lifetime, Dan Marino had that, then you don't have

(03:20):
to maybe have the quite the self awareness, the film study,
the pre snap excellence. You don't always have to be
a great teammate or workout as hard like big Ben
didn't in the off season. So Senor sanders to me,
Collagen pro. The traits are fine. He's mobile enough. He's accurate,

(03:42):
I think moving and stationary's accurate. His size is fine.
He's not top heavy like Will Levis, who feels all
chest and arms, and he's not spindily like a Matt
Rein or a Teddy Bridgewater. He's six two two eighteen
very sod. He's not a weight room guy, but it's
just a very He's comfortable playing. He runs backwards sometimes

(04:03):
you know that you got to stop that because he's
not athletic enough to escape. My question has always been
his traits are okay, so he's got to be great
film study EQIQ pre snap galvanizing teammates. And then I
see the speeding tickets legendary, the New York Giant stuff,
which has been now reported multiple times and I had

(04:24):
it validated again last week. It was a disaster. But
my takeaway watching him was he's comfortable. It looks a
little like college. He's an accurate thrower, doesn't have a
huge arm, moves okay, and when he's got to make
big throws, in the red zone. He's pretty damn good
at it. That's my take.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
Yours, Well, I would say the pre draft stuff was real,
but it's real for a lot of players that end
up falling in the draft and then they go on
to make plays and become good players and none of
it matters ever. Again, so I think shador I think
there are a lot of different anger here. First and
foremost his dad, which is a huge reason. Right. He

(05:05):
is a very famous and polarizing individual, is one of
the most gifted athletes in the history of American professional sports.
And he's one of the best football players. And he
wouldn't tackle. And we all say, yeah, LT's and Reggie
White probably the two best defensive players. Dion's probably top five.
He wouldn't tackle, and he bragged about it. He's like,
they don't pay me to tackle because he could cover. Well,

(05:26):
he's not that level of a talent. But he is
very instinctive and a natural football player. And I think
two things we don't talk about enough with quarterbacks. One
is always toughness. I mean, you gotta be tough. The
best players were always tough. Brady hung his hat on
jumping right back up after he got hit. Ben Johnson's
been all over Kleb about body language when you get hit.

(05:48):
Shador's tough, so he brings that to the table. And
then there's just a natural feel to his game. I mean,
he's a pretty accurate player and his two you know,
definitely the first touchdown I think is when he was
rolling left like that's an instinctive, layered throw. But he
is not alone. He is with a large group of players.
There are a ton of guys that were drafted on
the third day all over the league that, guess what,

(06:10):
are gonna go on to be really good players. Some
will be Hall of famers Richard Sherman, Jason Kelce in
this class that will be household names. And then there
are a ton of guys drafted in the first, second,
and third round who are not going to be any good,
who within a couple two, three, four years will not
be on their team and will be considered bus and
not good draft picks. It's the NFL now. Chador is

(06:31):
the headliner, but like again his own team, his own
team took another quarterback two rounds above him, and the
reason Shador was there in the fifth and you and
I have talked about that you mentioned the Giants, so
the bad teams that the interactions were weird. He wouldn't
talk with the good teams. So the good teams that
all have quarterbacks, obviously they would have been interested if

(06:53):
they had good interactions. They're like, he won't talk to
we don't know, we have no interaction. Every player beside
the cop to up two, three, four guys Travis Hunter
and a Duel Carter might not talk to Andy Reid
and the Bills, right, but most every other player does. Yeah, right,
Look at Trayvon Henderson, the good running back for the Patriots.
They have a sweet run back. The other day, I

(07:16):
guarantee talked to every single team in the league, and
every team felt good. Obviously, he got draft from the
second he could argued he could have gone twenty. If
he had fallen the forty five, every team would have
been interested in the guy like that, and they talked
to him. But Shador wasn't talking to everybody. So as
he's falling in the draft, good teams are passing on him.
Good teams seed backup quarterbacks. But they're like, and this
is what I heard, we just don't know him. He
wouldn't talk to a quarterback. But most of these guys,

(07:40):
I think a lot of scouts did not think he
was a first round pick. I do agree, like that
was a narrative, that's true, but most people thought he
was a pretty good college football Yeah, like he's better
than most, Like should have gone somewhere second, third, fourth,
You know, it's a pretty A lot of guys can
go in the second. If they don't, sometimes they go
in the fourth. It's not that crazy. He clearly had
a little larger of a drop and it was one

(08:00):
preseason game and everyone acting like he's John Elway. Let's
pump the brakes a little bit. But you've given your opportunity.
You take advantage. And I get from the fan base
and you and I were talking about this over the weekend.
They're not gonna have much of a rope with no
one wants to watch Kenny Pickett take us now. Joe
Flack was forty years old, Dylan Gabriel is already injured. Listen.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
I think it was a great night for Cleveland because
I my prediction has been Shadur becomes the backup, they
trade Kenny Pickett for a sixth or a seventh, and
then Dylan Gabriel gets behind Shadur because the fans, I mean,
if they go zero to four, Shador is gonna get play.
The fans are gonna want it. And Haslam listens to
sports talk radio. He's very much connected to the media.

(08:41):
He is listening to his fans. I mean, he's the
guy that said he drafted Johnny Manziel because he talked
to a and his words, a homeless guy. So it's
like Haslim is very much connected to his fan base.
And so I and I think Chadeure and I said
this from the beginning, Dion that had no favors. He

(09:01):
really butchered the pre draft stuff. He's not talented enough
to just say I'm not talking to you. He's not that.
I mean, Cam Newton's one of the few. You're like,
Cam's gonna get drafted. Big, tall, fast, Strong may have
been the most dominant SEC player I've ever seen when
the SEC was clearly the best conference. But I mean
the Big twelve, you know, stunk and Shadour didn't win

(09:22):
a lot of games. But as you said, most of
that stuff falls by the wayside that there's been a
I mean, listen, if you can play in this league,
they've forgiven felons like they forgive a lot. So in
my take is I still think he's a little too
unseerious for me. I think his judgment is not a strength.

(09:46):
But when you watch him play, and this is why
fans get excited, I thought he was comfortable, looking like
he just feels kind of comfortable just slinging it in
the red zone. He's not frenetic, he didn't have nervous feet.
He just kind of plays and he looked like, Okay,
it's fine.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
I don't know Stefanski personally, but I know I've been
around coaches and know a lot of them, and I
know the way they think. Just because he makes plays
like people would be like, why don't start them week one? Well,
coach would be like, well he doesn't know the playbook
yet or all of it. Right, They're not comfortable enough,
he's not ready. It's an easy thing for him to say.
Fans never want to hear that. Honestly, a lot of

(10:26):
times the front office will dumb it down. Give him
ten plays because you said zero to four. I just
pulled up their schedule. They're playing the Bengals week one
at home. Let's just say in this hypothetical world they're
down seventeen to nothing at halftime to the Bengals week one,
they would start chanting his name. And this also gets
back to my theory of like, I don't believe Jimmy

(10:46):
has them for a second when he's like, yeah, I
never thought we would draft him. It was just up
to those two guys. Because these coaches part of the
reason they probably weren't that interested in the sense once
they draft Dhillan Gabriel because it does bring this Yeah,
this is we're talking preseason two touchdowns and what he
should start week one, and they go, he's a fifth
round pick. And they'd also say if we didn't take them,

(11:07):
who the hell was gonna take them. There's also it
looks like a lot of people were lined up to
take them.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
There's a te Bow thing here, but Shadur can actually
play like like like t bows. Sure, yeah, and Tebow
got overdrafted Shadure, Let's be honest, he was underdrafted in
the fifth round. So so Tebow was overdrafted but couldn't play,
and Shador was underdrafted and actually can.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
Play a little bit.

Speaker 2 (11:30):
I mean to me, I I think you know that's
the downside. Bill Parcels used to say, don't be a
celebrity quarterback. Everybody's a celebrity. Now what you don't want
Now it's morphed into you don't want a celebrity backup.
You don't want Kaepernick Tebow right, Johnny manzel Er sur
is a backup, So that will be Cam like Cam

(11:51):
Belichick's like, we love you. But they just chose Mac Jones.
So it used to be you don't want a celebrity quarterback.
It's over nil. It's Caleb's a celebrit I'm sorry. The
conference is the TV ratings are huge, so that will
be his issue. But I think if you're a Browns fan,
whether you're gonna keep him or move him, I thought
it was a great night, you should be excited. It's

(12:11):
really fun. And I think he moved himself into number two.
I think Stefanski sees the value. They want to accumulate
picks for next year's draft. You can get something. I
think for Kenny.

Speaker 1 (12:24):
Pickett, well, to me, I've never been a Cannie Pickt guy.
I've always just as a player in general. Before he's
on the Browns, I just assume Flacco was gonna be
the week one starter because he did a couple of
years ago and now he head coach likes him. There
are some people saying, like, trade him, right, get trade
them to the Rams. You know, if Stafford was or whoever,
there is no way after that performance Jimmy Haslam is

(12:47):
allowing a trade even if he ends up not being good,
they're not probably not gonna be very good, and he's
gonna get a ton of starts, and they're gonna get
a front row seat, and who knows, maybe they get
lightning in a bottle. He's actually pretty solid and they
don't you have to use, you know, their picks on
a quarterback. But there is no way. It is. It's
a wasted conversation to be like they should trade him
somewhere else. There is no way Jimmy Haslam is because

(13:10):
he goes, well, we're not going to be that good.
At least if we got Shador Samuels, Sanders and Miles
Garrett maybe trying to be defensive Player of the Year.
Even if we win five six games, at least we're
one of the main stories in the league. It's it's
got a little Jerry Jones quality to it, doesn't it. It
does okay, So Dolphins Bears. I watched almost the entire
game today, so this is what I thought was interesting.

(13:30):
So I've said this now for this has been kind
of one of my off season rams. What Mike McDaniel
is smart. I don't doubt it. The media loves him.
He almost looks like a sports writer. He almost talks
like when he's sort of snarky, not the coolest guy
in the room.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
But my question was always can he create a culture?
Same with Lincoln Riley. By the way, I know they're smart.
I know they're good play designers and play callers, but
a big part of football Dan Campbell, Nick Sirianni, Pete Carroll,
hell Andy Reid is Shanahan creating toughness and culture. So
the quotes from Joe Shadd, who covers them, used to

(14:07):
be at ESPN. Good guy Joe Shadd said today, Mike
McDaniel played starters today and the reason was he is
emphasizing listen to this culture, physicality and accountability. This so
Mike McDaniel's hearing it, and this has been my knock
on the Dolphins. Like Caleb didn't play, We can talk
about that in a second. Tua did and I think

(14:30):
Mike McDaniel is seeing what people like me and you
have said for a year. What are you You can't
build football programs on speed on the perimeter. In the
Chiefs build theirs on Creed Humphrey, Joe Tooney at the time, Mahomes,
Andy Reid and Travis Kelsey. You built in out. You
can find speed, it's hard to find great centers and

(14:53):
quarterbacks and great interior alignment and left tackles. And so
I think Mike McDaniel's, to his credit, is knowledging. You know,
the culture here feels broken. We were the fastest team
in the league, but it didn't get us anything. And
I appreciate him acknowledging it. But playing starters is a message.
It seems to me.

Speaker 1 (15:13):
Well, I've always been a believer. I mean there's some
sayings in football that you could walk into every building
and you know, looks like Tarzan plays like Jane in
one scouting term. And I think this works to this too,
is you know, a leperd doesn't change its spots. I
think when a coach, you know, Pete Carroll, talks about this,
he realized he tried to change and it blew up
in his face, and he had to say true to

(15:34):
who he was. Remember when he like studied with John
Wooden and he got the USC job. He's like, I'm
a fun, happy guy. I'm not Belichick. Belichick is a
grumpy guy. They're very authentic to themselves. But toughness, they
don't have to fake that. It's part of the way
they practice. It's part of the way they think about football.
You go around most of the top coaches, Sean McDermott,
Dan Campbell, they're just tough guys. They don't ever have

(15:56):
to fake. Like I don't think you can just manipulate,
snap your fingers and go. Because I somehow I bought
why I'm on the plane, I realized the Bear game
about to kick off, I get Wi Fi on my phone,
and then I realized I actually wanted on my iPad,
So somehow I ended up spending fifty dollars on internet.
I'm watching, but I'm watching the game, and the broadcaster

(16:17):
says that, you know, one thing McDaniel's doing has been
making them run gassers after practice, really trying to That's
like something the brand new college coach does. Like some
of these guys were on your team last year that
they see you, Mike, like, you're not a tough guy.
That's okay, but you got to do what you do
at an elite level two years ago. The one thing
they mentioned today on the broadcast that I didn't realize

(16:37):
how bad their offense was last year, and part of
that was too it got injured. Two years ago they
were really good. I mean, they've had some really good
offenses under him. But like accountability and toughness, those come
from your head coach and the players you select. But
you can't just like snap your finger and do that.
Kyle Shanahan and Andy Reid and McVeigh, their teams are tough.

(16:59):
I mean Andy is an old old squaffens whyman, the
other two guys are younger, whatever, But because they practice
tough and they've done that since both those two guys
showed up in twenty seventeen. Right, Kevin O'Connell, I'll give
him credit. I don't know if I view him as
a tough guy right, kind of more of a bougie quarterback.
But what does he do hires Brian Flores, Yeah, like,

(17:19):
we're gonna be fucking tough. So it's like the toughness
goes on Flores, who is a tough guy. There's no
faking it. He doesn't. The accountability comes from the tone
that is set on defense. Jim Harbaugh and John they
are tough guys. They also always hire tough defensive coordinators.
So you just can't Mike. I just think that, like, Mike,

(17:40):
you're not a tough guy. And it's been too long
now in your program. If it had been like year one,
you got some players out of there, It's like, okay,
what's year He's on your four. I don't think that's possible. Now.
I give him credit, like, Okay, we're gonna start and
play our starters. On the flip side, I don't know
if you saw some of the quotes of Ben Johnson,
like we're gonna get our work pregame and we're gonna

(18:02):
get our work tomorrow. I think nationally televised game. This
wasn't like seven other preseason games going on. There was
only one. He wanted no part. It could have gone well.
But also if it goes bad, then that Trump's Caleb
or Shador is the number one story in the NFL. Tomorrow.
You're leading your show with it. We can't even talk
about Caleb because no one's on play. Meanwhile, Tua, who

(18:24):
let's face it, if Caleb is as good as Tua
in terms of efficiency and solid, the Bears would be
pretty damn happy this season, right, and two is out
there playing and he's making a ton of money and
Caleb's on the sideline, which I don't I mean, Caleb
doesn't control that, But that was I think Ben Johnson,
which I give him credit. He's been coaching them hard,
He's he has been running an accountability toughness program from

(18:44):
the jump, but I think he realized, like, look at
the schedule, everyone's watching our game. If word have gone out,
Caleb's about to start even more people are tuning into
that thing, and he didn't even want to risk it,
which I understand, but I also think it shows you
that still a great unknown what we're getting. Week one, I.

Speaker 2 (19:03):
Think they practiced, didn't have an inner squad practice to
Bears and the Dolphins. I thought I read they did,
and it was really physical and there were a couple
of moments where the Bears the Dolphins felt the Bears
had delivered, you know, some late hits or a little
over physicality. And so there's another reason Ben Jonson's like,

(19:24):
you know, Andy Reid.

Speaker 1 (19:25):
Because two, I think Tua got chubbed to the ground
or something, right, Yeah, and so you know you've told
me this is is.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
Andy Reid will not do those intersquad practices. He doesn't
want anybody seeing any of his stuff. And Shanahan never
done one, never done one. Andy's like, you're not going
to get a look at anything we're doing, or our
players or our draft picks. You don't get a look
at any of it. And then Shanahan will only do
one practice. And I think have you talked about that
theory before?

Speaker 1 (19:50):
Why? Well, Kyle, I guess said this the other day
and I was like, actually, it kind of makes a
lot of sense. He thinks the second day of these
joint practices, which a lot of these teams now are
just doing the one yes, and then some of them
don't even play their starters in that game because whoever
loses Day one, Binn Squad, Well, you're usually practicing, you know,
sometime before lunch, you have a meeting and stuff in

(20:12):
the afternoon where you break up and your position coach
are lighting you up. So what are you gonna do
the next day after getting lit up? In the position meeting,
the group meeting, and then maybe even the morning meeting.
You're gonna come out with your hair on fire and
that can lead to fights. And listen, you get fights
in the one off practice. But he said the day
two practices can get a little out of control. And

(20:32):
I was like, yeah, it actually makes some sense. Whoever
kind of quote unquote loses and who knows it could
be like one group won this one, the other group
loss this one on different teams, and he's got melee's
going on.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yeah, and I think I think Ben Johnson also looked
at that, and you know, we had a pretty good practice.
I'm not putting Caleb Bollot. I mean, I think there
are a lot of factors. But in the end, a
team can't. You have to you and I have talked
about this in our job. You have to give the
fans meet in the sandwich. You can't just do fluff.
Miami's been fluff. Hey we're fast, Hey we got multiple sets.

(21:06):
There's no meat in the sandwich. Wilkins has gone on
the d line, who I thought was really good offensive
line gets pushed around last several years. But hey we're fast.
So I do think it's interesting that he is acknowledging
Joe Shadd's article Stronger culture, more accountability. At some point
the Tyreek Hill thing. The really smart organizations and businesses

(21:31):
in my life can see trouble before it happens. And
the Chiefs moved off Tyreek Hill just about the time
he was the most talked about player in the league,
and they got comfortable saying, you know what this could go.
I mean because Tyreek his personality, he's been in trouble
multiple times. And not that Kansas City doesn't have Rashid

(21:53):
Rice's issue. I mean, they've got their own issues. But
I think I look at that trade and I remember
the reaction when the Dolphins got Tyreek Hill, and I
remember being on the air on FS one and I said,
all those draft picks to Brett Veach, they're going to
be just fine, and they have it.

Speaker 1 (22:10):
And they drafted two of the two of the better
players on their team in Trent McDuffie and Karloftis Yeah right.
I mean, those two guys have changed the team. I
also think we were when we got home, yes stay
from the live thing, and we had the Dolphins or
the Vikings game on for the entire third quarter the
highest paid wide receiver Justin Jefferson was miked up with
their crew and just having a good time, and you're like,

(22:31):
this guy feels like he's pretty easy to be around. Yes,
And one theme that coming out of Dolphins camp is
that relationship of the stuff Tyreek said after the season
in two like, no, we're not just all good. You
don't just and then I just saw a headline right
before we jumped on that you know, teams are sniffing
around about trading for him, Like what teams like a
really good team? Now maybe you never know. I would

(22:53):
never like McVeigh might just go, yeah, we'll do it.
But I bet there are some good, well run teams
that are like, we're not even messing with, not even
worth it unless you eat so much money where if
it doesn't work, we can just cut him immediately something
like that. But he went from being a really good
asset a couple of years ago, I mean even when
Miami got him, he's putting up huge numbers to now
I bet there are a lot of Super Bowl contenders

(23:14):
that are like, yeah, we wouldn't even be in that business.

Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yeah, Travis Hunter will be the athlete of note in
that state. It will not be Tyrey killed going forward.
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Speaker 2 (24:33):
So you and I had a long discussion watching the
Jets and the Packers last night over at Tito's, and
we we probably spent an hour just you and I
before my crazy in laws came over. And one of
the things you talked me into is, I've said all
off season I don't know what the heck to do
with the Packers. They won double digit games last year,

(24:55):
and Jordan Love was hurt early and didn't play great late. Okay,
but I was thinking about this when I woke up
and you went to the airport, and I was.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
Thinking about this.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
I'm like Detroit's coordinators, their replacements really worry me. Chicago's
offense in Kleb really worries me. JJ McCarthy. I don't
think there's any question that Viking staff is just trying
to build his confidence up. The whole camp is about
his confidence. I think I'm gonna take that. Even though

(25:26):
the Packers got boat raced by the Jets, I think
I'm gonna end up before we get to JJ McCarthy.
I think I'm gonna take the Packers. They've had a
quiet offseason, and I think that stuff matters. I mean,
you've got an Alliance team that will not be as
good because they lost two of the best coordinators, whether
Aaron Glenn and Ben Johnson hit his coaches, they were
great coordinators. You know, Aaron Glenn had a top ten defense.

(25:48):
They had like four starters out. I mean interesting, you know,
in an offensive division, and I just I think you've
talked me into it is And McIntyre has been on
this too. Good coach Jordan loves healthy. Green Bay is
probably gonna win that division.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
Well, you wrote the Lions off after the Hall of
Fame game. I'm out. I wouldn't go that far though.
The theme of losing those two guys, I mean the
Hall of Fame game, I get. I mean they did
look bad, but I do think losing those two guys
what Aaron Glenn brought to the table in terms of emotion,

(26:30):
let alone the scheme. I mean, he was kind of
the heartbeat of that team and then bend the brains.
It's just how do you replace that, right? I mean
it's like any industry, any business, losing two employees at
that high level, even if you hit on one of
the two, there's gonna be a you know, probably a
dramatic drop off on one of them. And if it's
the offense, that would be a big blow to Detroit
because offensively, that's really where they separated. You know. I

(26:53):
do think Minnesota has a better roster removed so obviously
than the Packers. And you could argue, beside the Eagles
in the NFC, no one's even on their level. You
could argue, minus the quarterbacks, they're right there with the Eagles.
I mean, they got a pretty special roster. But I
just think there's something about the Packers. I mean, we're
talking about it. I didn't even quite realize. You know,

(27:13):
you live by the lake, and then you kind of
pull the map and you see that Green Bays not
really that far, and then I realized, I get why
the Bears are so jealous of the Packers. You got
the big one of the great cities in the world,
and you got this little town up the road, and
they've been kicking the Bears ass for thirty years, and
now they're on their third quarterback it's one thing, it's like, okay,
far if I get it, we'll tip our hat to you.

(27:35):
Then you get Rogers like we're really gonna have to
take this for fifteen years. And now you get Jordan
Love who he had a couple throws yesterday. His talent
is as you get Jacob's there. Their offensive line is
always good, they're highing this young quarterback. Their defense is
now good. They're just that program that they're never going
to be sexy, like you know, like they're Ohio State
football or you know what Andy Reid was early with

(27:57):
Mahomes and that we don't talk about them like that post.
But last year they won eleven games, and they won
one in the Division one one and their quarterback got
hurt week one, which had to throw them off a
little bit, even though they won the next couple weeks
with Malik Willis, which to me shows their coach is
pretty good. You know, their coach is pretty He's unlike
Kevin O'Connell, like he's won some playoff games. So I

(28:19):
won the gambling values there. I mean, you're getting like
two and a half to one to win the division.
Google how many times they've won the Division The last
three years. I mean, they just do it a lot.
I do think there's some internal pressure now that they
got that Murphy guy. The president who kind of works
as the owner is now Carmen Policy's son, Ed's in charge.
So I mean this is a very like there's some

(28:39):
of the line for Goodikins and Lafleur in a weird
way because they have a new boss. I just think
they're flying under the radar. I mean, all we do
is talk about the Bears and the Vikings because their
new quarterbacks. No one talks about.

Speaker 2 (28:51):
The Packers, you know, and there's a lot of different
ways to win. In Philadelphia. We don't think they have
the best head coach, but they have the best roster.
In Long Ange, Angelus, we don't think they have the
best roster, but we love the quarterback and the coach.
You know, Green Bay, it's continuity. The division's got all
sorts of turmoil, losing coordinators in Chicago, can't get the quarterback, right,

(29:12):
is JJ McCarthy right? It just continuity is it's I
don't even know the comp IBM like Microsoft, Microsoft has
been great.

Speaker 1 (29:21):
It missed on the phone.

Speaker 2 (29:22):
There have been moments, but you look up and you're like, yeah, Ai,
Microsoft's good. Green Bay has been really ahead of the
curve on quarterbacks. They draft them early. They never draft
offensive linemen in the first round. I couldn't tell you
the best offensive line. And you and I talked about this.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
These stwords.

Speaker 2 (29:42):
A book written years ago called maybe thirty years ago,
called The Millionaire next Door, and it was about how
many people live next door to you. They pay off
their home, they have a four to oh one K.
They live under their means, and they're millionaires and they
don't have huge salaries. And that really is the Packers.
They're missing a barstool leg right. They don't have that
free agent leg Whereas a Philadelphia a Miami, at certain

(30:06):
places there are people want to go play in La Devonte.
Adams didn't take, didn't have to arm wrestle them to
get them to Sean McVay and Stafford in the Rams right,
like green Bay didn't have that. So they have to
draft and develop, like the school teachers have to be
smart with their money to become millionaires in Green Bay
when you're forced. I don't think it's a coincidence that

(30:27):
both New York teams are a bit of a mess.
Why because they have great game day revenue, they've got
great local radio, TV advertising revenue, and they take big
swings and they don't do their homework. Green Bay does
their homework. And I just I look at this organization
and their continuity, their intelligence, their development. They almost develop

(30:47):
like a really good college program. They really developed.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
And in my comp you know a lot of times
in college football, the underling goes and as a coach
somewhere else, right, like Sark's not at Alabama, right, Lane
Lane Kiffin's not at Alabama. Typically these guys go off.
I mean honestly, when they tried to replace Pete Carroll
didn't go well. But in basketball, think about when Roy
Williams replaced Steen Smith finally because he just knew what

(31:11):
worked in that program. Or John Schier now with coach
k Like, there is a blueprint in that program that
they know works. Gutikins was taught from Ted Thompson, who
was taught from run Wolf. Like, there is a consistent
theme in that organization that has never changed, which is
pretty rare when you have turnover like the Eagles. How
he's been there for decades, right, so it's him. But

(31:34):
when you look at like the Ravens. They went from
Ozzie to DaCosta, so they have thought the you know,
a very similar path. You'd even go from Kevin Colbert
to Omar Kahan now with the Steelers, like he's he
was taught under that. It's pretty rare because a lot
of times you fire someone, you bring in the best
teams executive, right, That is not what is happening with

(31:55):
the Backers for decades. So there is connections. Like Gutikins
can tell story that Ron Wolf told Ted Thompson about
what they did in nineteen ninety four with Reggie White
and Brett Farver trading for this guy or cutting this guy,
and that is pretty rare. Like John Lynch can't tell
stories of stuff that happened with Bill Walsh, like the
personnel moves in nineteen eighty nine were less snead with

(32:17):
Mike Martz and Dick for Meal back in nineteen ninety nine.
It's just that's pretty rare. And I think that's the
only reason that this little town a couple hours above
you sitting right now dominates these big cities, because you
and I are sitting there going god, Minnesota is a
well run franchise. It's just I know, they've never won
the super Bowl in the modern era. They just they've

(32:38):
gotten closed. They've had awesome team, they've been good, most
of them. The Kansas the kid.

Speaker 2 (32:43):
And if Mahomes goes to the Chiefs, if Mahomes goes
to the Vikings, not the Chiefs, because Kansas City has
always had good quarterbacks. They won Hanks stran Len Dawson,
But Kansas City always had good coaches, good quarterbacks. They
drafted well, a lot of great players. I mean, ray
Lewis always told me he hated playing the Chiefs. With
Willie Rove, Tony Gonzali raised like I hated playing the Chiefs.

Speaker 1 (33:04):
Their O line was unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
If Mahomes goes to the Vikings not the Chiefs, you'd
be like, yeah, well, they were always well run. They
just have never landed. They thought it was Dante Culpepper.
They thought it was Kirk Cousins, you know, Sam Fran
Tarkin and was good back in the seventies, running around
one of the first like five eleven six foot quarterbacks
out of Georgia. But they just have never like consistently

(33:27):
had you know, they got far for a couple of
years and they were a player two away from the
Super Bowl. So I tend to just I tend to
look at Minnesota respectfully, Like the Twins can't compete in
Major League Baseball. The t Wolves weren't always well run.
The Vikings have been well run since Bud Grant always.

Speaker 1 (33:45):
Yeah, I mean, that's a knock right on the Bears.
Ownership's cheap, that's a fact. The Packers, I mean, they
haven't had one, but they've had a unique infrastructure. And
the Lions, up until Dan and Brad Holmes got there,
were the running joke of the NFL. And the Vikings
just even look back like Kirk Cousins. Kirk Cousins ever
gone to the Hall of Fame. He's going to the
Hall of Fame of Bank Accounts for doing what he

(34:05):
pulled off. But they signed Kirk Cousins and they were
just good. And they beat Drew Brees in a playoff
game a couple of years ago. They hosted a playoff
game which they lost the Giants, but they had a
really good record. Like they're just well run. And I think,
you know, we were watching some of the highlights. You know,
it's hard in these preseason games, like Chador played a lot, right,
he gets twenty three attempts.

Speaker 2 (34:24):
Most of these guys at seven get a series.

Speaker 1 (34:27):
And then they're out sis like they went three to seven.
It's hard. JJ definitely has some physical attributes. And you know,
I've been I guess on the negative side, and I
started thinking, listen, maybe he doesn't even have to be
that great. Their team's so good if he is just
the twentieth best quarterback, has some games where he's the tenth,
has a couple of clunkers, but.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
They could win a couple of games where his comp
to me is brought Purdy is that he inherits Kyle Shanahan,
He gets Christian McCaffrey, a Trent Williams, George Kittling, all
these receivers. If he and so do you think brock
Purdy does that if he goes to tone deaf offensive Pittsburgh. No,
he doesn't do that, but he as he's learning the

(35:08):
game behind Garoppolo. Garoppolo gets hurt. You're like, oh, Brock's
got you know, three years, four years of college starts.
He was ready to play. JJ's issue is brock Purdy
played at Iowa State. He trailed a lot. He got
hit a lot. He didn't play with great players. JJ
McCarthy is like a trust fund kid, like he never
got punished, he never got pushed, he never trailed. Life

(35:29):
was never hard. So but I believe like Brock when
he inherits the job after Garoppolo's injury, just don't run
the Mercedes into the tree in the driveway. The truth is,
Minnesota's roster is like Denver. It's way better than people
we pay attention to Philadelphia or Baltimore. I'm telling you
right now. Minnesota left tackle like running backs, receiving crew,

(35:56):
edge rushers like Minnesota stacked.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
You could make the argument that the best two rosters
in the NFL are the Eagles in the Minnesota Vikings,
and then the AFC ones the top guy, you know,
like the Ravens or the Chiefs. I think most people
consider the Ravens top to bottom. Typically you're in, you're
out the best roster. That's why they kind of disappointed
sometimes when they let down. Even last year when the
Bills beat him, You're like, I don't think the Bills
are as good as a race. They just win that

(36:20):
game or not. But that's the thing with the Minnesota
They have had. I'd even go back to a decade
ago with Mike Zimmer. I mean they had excellent players
with Spielman was the GM. They always have impact Pro
Bowl guys and it just comes down Cousins wasn't quite
good enough right now. The difference is they got Cousins
a little older. He already had some scar tissue. He

(36:41):
had some true limitations. It had to be in the pocket.
He couldn't add lip. One of the I mean his
best throw of the day, I don't even win did
he play yesterday morning or yesterday afternoon? Was that rolling
to his left. He has physical attributes that I think
part of the reason they got off Cousins. I mean,
obviously you had the achilles, but even when he was healthy,
they were true limitations. Like with GoF they can't move,

(37:03):
and let's a coach wants pretty bails Kyle out sometimes
just because he's got some athleticism right, and that's gonna
be an element that can help him out, especially early on.
You can get him layups, moving around. They got the
best wide receiver in the league. I think Addison got suspended.
He was thwing him a couple of times. Just fair.
I mean he is I mean when he's on him,
it's that's pretty damn good those two guys. Yeah, so

(37:26):
and then they got it. They have added offensive lineman.
They can really run the ball. To me, that's what
Kyle Kevin O'Connell needs to kind of lean on Early.
That's the easiest way to take a little pressure off
the kid. Early run the ball a little bit and
just helped him out. But he does like the pass.
You know, he got confident in san donoald Early. He's like,

(37:46):
let it rip. Because I've said it forever. His comp
is not Kyle Shanahan as Sean mcvah Andy Reid. He
wants to bomb at fifty times a game. You know,
Kyle would rather win. Kyle would have no problem going
thirteen and five and leading the league in rushing and
average his quarterback averaging nineteen attempts a game. That is
not how McVeigh. Definitely, Andy Reid and I would put
Kevin O'Connell in that bucket, which I don't blame it.

(38:08):
We all got our different philosophies, but you got to
be careful with a young quarterback, you know, calling passes
NonStop early in games on first down, cause if it
goes wrong, it can it. He got a little bit
of a pass. I thought last year. I'm not saying
Sam Darnoble was perfect, and obviously he played bad, especially
in the Detroit game, but in the playoff game, he
could have settled down the game a little bit and

(38:29):
ran the ball and he just refused to call runs.
And I think that, But that's back to McDaniel. You
can't hide who you are as a coach, no different
than you know you approach a radio show up podcast
certain ways, like everyone has their own styles and you
kind of stay true to that, especially the older and
more success you have. So that that to me, I'm
going to be fascinated watching that early on, like how

(38:49):
he treats this, Like is he cool starting the season
four and one but only having him average let's say
twenty pass attempts a game, and really like we're going
to try to lead the league in rushing in September,
because that's how he should be talking, just even if
he's bullsh on the player in practice, just to ease
his start into the year. I mean last year with
Caleb it was like throwing nonstops, like this is not

(39:11):
gonna work, guys, This is unfair to the guy.

Speaker 2 (39:13):
So I thought it was interesting. Apparently Jim Harbaugh loved
Brian Thomas, the receiver that went to Jacksonville, who was
great as a rookie. But he drafted Joe Alt. And
they had a great left tackle in Shaan Slater. But
and Alt was the best tackle in the draft. So
Harbaugh drafts Joe Alt. He was inconsistent. But I was

(39:35):
told inside the building that they thought Alt was going
to be a pro Bowl level right tackle this year.
Now Slater now gets hurt season ending injury. Heartbreaking for
the kid. Great player. My guess is they moved Alt
over the left and then they you know, they've got
multiple guys that can play right. But I thought it,
and they I thought, once again, this is where Harbaugh's

(39:59):
really smart. Everybody wanted them to take a receiver. Remember
they'd lost Keenan Allen, They'd lost Mike Williams. Everybody in
the world thought it was a wide receiver. The Bears
to Roma Dunze, right, the Bears could have used an
offensive linement. Let's be honest, the Bears didn't need Roma Dunzee.
They could use Joe Alt last year in the offensive
line Harbaugh gets Joe Alt, and a year later it's prescient.

(40:21):
I mean you look at it and you're like, oh shit,
if they didn't draft Joel, where would they beat today?
Lad mcconky's excellent. Keenan Allen comes back, he'll be your classic,
you know, forty eight catches, sixty catches, third down guy.
But it goes back to Harbaugh's the opposite of Mike
McDaniel everywhere he goes. I remember Stanford. I can remember

(40:43):
his second year at Stanford. People are like, they're not
any good, but they're the most physical team in the
Pac ten. They went into USC and the Coliseum as
a forty point dog in one, and they were beating
on us like they were physical. And I think it
goes when we bang on a Mike McDaniel, it's like Harbor.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
Is always true to who he is.

Speaker 2 (41:02):
So even though the Rashawn Slater injury is brutal, the
Joel Alt draft pick to some degree saves them.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
In my opinion, Yeah, I mean, it's why they always
say you get you can't draft for need. You got
to draft the best player available, and a left tackle
is always should be more valuable than a wide receiver
I mean it was always if he's good, don't always
yeah yeah, and they nailed that. I do think they'll
big picture, like everyone's saying that he's like he's gonna
take Molik neighbors, Like, guys, have you not followed this

(41:30):
guy's career. But a huge reason I was bullish on
him last year. I even if I don't think they're
gonna be as good as some teams, like I don't
put them on the top tier in the AFC, I
would bet on them being good again. This is a
pretty big blow because their team is roster wise, is
not as sexy as the other guys they're chasing. And
a huge point of you know, kind of where they

(41:53):
separate is they have, you know, the best tackle duo
in the league, and now they add backed in like
they were going to be so physical and we know
Jim Jim Will I have no problem rushing it literally
every play and he could win go seventeen to zero
and win every game nine to seven, and he'd be
the happiest guy in America. But I think anytime that
you lose a guy in the Domino effect, because like, okay,

(42:15):
you move him to left tackle, that means your right
tackle gets worse. Do you try to move back into
right tackle, that means your guard gets worse, Like it's
a domino effect. Even though it's a it's the best
situation given that they drafted Joe Walt that if you're
going to lose a star left tackle, you have a replacement.
But it has a huge blow. And even they signed
Nasie Harris like they're going to pound two running backs

(42:36):
and he messed up his eye. Clearly can't do anything,
you know. I mean, he's it's not good. I mean,
I'm not very I wouldn't be bullish on him starting
the season early. I mean, he clearly is not even
close to practicing. So I think the Chargers are just
in a weird spot. Now they got Jim Harbod their
floor is so high they could have a season from

(42:56):
hell and win eight games. But I think that was
not just to devastating injury. My dad again, he was
a fifty year old guy, Taurus battel attendant when he
was like fifty years old, and it was never the same.
That is not an acl that that is not a
broken arm or broken leg. That is the devastating knee injury.
So that's that scary big picture too, especially because you

(43:17):
know cap wise they just invested. I mean, I think
in a I'm not trying to be doomsday or here,
but you almost have to say, this might never be
the same with this individual player. So now, luckily Jim
Harbaugh is you know, might as well be an offensive
line guy, so he'll be able to figure something out.
But you usually don't replace you know, even if you
can replace left tackle, then the right tackle. The drop

(43:40):
off at that position, you could argue from a high
end tackle to the backup is almost like a quarterback.
It's a precipitous drop off. The backup is typically in
a different stratus.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
Fuld than that. It goes back to George Young, the
late great general manager of the New York Giants, and
Paul Brown and George Young. There are people that just
you know, Ted Thompson in Green Bay, like had a
theory on drafting and he used to call it the
planet theory George Young did, which was there are only

(44:11):
so many six six, three hundred and twenty five pound
men annually born in America eventually to become that that
have good feet and are really really have long arms.
Like I've always said, after quarterback left tackle is I
mean I would take a great left tackle over Michael Parsons.
I mean I would, I wouldn't. I mean outside of
a Lawrence Tales, Miles Garrett, not even hesitation because the

(44:33):
man upstairs, I'm not overly religious, but the man upstairs
makes a lot of six four, two hundred and seventy
pound guys who could run fast and rush the passer.
There's a there's a surplus. Almost every team's got somebody
who's really good at the edge. There's six good left
tackles in the game. And if the thirty best of
all time, I think twenty seven were drafted in the
first round, like they don't show up in a city

(44:54):
you can get brought Purty in the seventh and Kurt
Owner undrafted, you know, Antonio Gates, and not a lot
of great left tackles all time that went in even
the fourth round. So to lose Rashawn Slater, who I
think was the eleventh, twelve, thirteenth pick, it's it's a
devastating blow.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
I also think, if I wanted to argue the other side,
part of the reason that Jim Harbaugh is worth so
much and his value is so high is because no
one in their right mind could get in front of
a team and give a speech like we're gonna be okay.
But that's what you have to do in his role.
Especially it's when did he get hurt? August sixth, I mean,
we got a long way to go here. We're a

(45:32):
month out from week one, and I think he's good
enough because, let's face it, he's a little psychotic. He's
this kind of crazy in a weird way and optimist.
He's a very optimistic human being that he could get
up there and still breathe light in like Mike McDaniel, Dude,
do I think like? I mean, it's shown when Tua
goes down, they just implode because whatever he's saying, no

(45:53):
one believes them. If you told me Herbert missed a month,
I'd be like, I bet Jim could go to and
two because he can just instill some confidence that no
one has. And that's where the Chargers finally opening the
checkbook for a high end coach. It's valuable for this.
So this is a year that a bad coach could
just implode and you go six and eleven, but wouldn't

(46:14):
shock anyone if the Chargers are just like the grittiest
nine to eight team in the league because of Jim.
That's you know, when it's like it shouldn't be this way.
Their offensive line, like they maybe have to rotate some
tackles whoever's filling in for all spot, and it's like
they just kind of figure it out and they just
kind of tough their way there. They win a couple
of games like fifteen to thirteen. I mean, they're gonna
do that even when they're really good one day. But

(46:36):
this is where Jim's value comes in in moments like this.

Speaker 2 (46:46):
Let's finish it up. Talking about Jackson Dark So I
thought he was more of a second or third round pick.
Good looking kid. I watched a lot of them at
ole Miss used to be at USC. He's got a
nice arm, and I was kind of like, go either
way on him. And then I watched him play Florida
in Gainesville and that was a big game for ole
Miss and he just didn't play well at all. And

(47:07):
I'm like, Okay, that's a big spot. You got to
play better than that. And I mean, people have bad games,
but that wasn't. Elaine Kiffin lost, Like it was just
a bad game. And so I'm like, you know, he's
probably a late second. So the Giants who got into
a rough spot it's New York, and I think they
reached a little bit because the people I had talked
to liked Jackson Dart but thought he was high second round.

(47:29):
He went late first. Whatever, it's quarterback. You and I
are both okay, reach out of quarterback. So he played
pretty well twelve nine team had a couple of really
nice throws. He moves pretty well. I mean, he wasn't
severely overdrafted, especially with a position. But here's the interesting thing.
So next year's a very good quarterback draft class. This year,

(47:52):
the Giant schedule is the toughest in the league, especially
the first eight weeks. My guess is this is why
I didn't like drafting Jackson Dart. If you don't play him,
can you draft another quarterback with a top pick? You're
better off playing Russ. He gets you know, he takes

(48:13):
the criticism. I would keep the coach, but the GM
gets fired that the owner will probably move both out
and you start over again with a new quarterback. So
could I make this argument just play Jackson Dart after
about week three? If you look at the schedule, there'll
be an underdog. I think in their first eight weeks
they could be an underdog each week. Play Russell the
first couple, appease him and go with Jackson Dart at

(48:36):
least then next year you can say, listen, we gave
the kid a run, we think he's a great back,
or somebody likes him and goes. But my take is,
having Russell play the first eight weeks, you're going to
draft another quarterback with the first pick of Jackson. I
mean Arizona had Josh Rosen played him, he struggled. Every

(49:00):
buddy bought into we're getting a new quarterback might take it.
You can't not play Jackson Dart and then draft a quarterback.
Then it looks like a really bad pick. What do
you do if you're the Giant's brain trust with Jackson Dart.

Speaker 1 (49:12):
Well, it's not apples to apples because one guy was
a fifth round pick and the other guy went like
twenty four. But to me, it's got a lot of
shade or Sanders. No one's gonna want to watch Russell
Wilson after about fifteen snaps. This team's not very good,
And if I was a fan, I just wouldn't want
to watch Russell Wilson. Now, the difference is Stefanski really
likes Flacco. I could see Brian Dave all being out

(49:33):
on Russell. And we've seen some other coaches.

Speaker 2 (49:35):
Both Pete and Sean fast.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
Quick and clearly Arthur Smith more than Tomlin wanted to
pivot back to justin fields. He wasn't feeling it. So
I could see this thing pivoting quick the other thing.
And listen, I know the ownership doesn't want to get
too involved, but we got to know, so I get
this guy fourteen starts. He also likes Shador. These guys

(50:00):
played a lot in college, so it's not this is
not one of those situations, like you know, Jim Harbaugh
just played Trey Lance in the Hall of Fame game,
like into the third late in the third quarter. He's
just trying to get the kid reps and hopefully like
someone likes him. He's third string quarterback, but he's never
played how many starts Jackson Dart have in the SEC
hell he was starting at USC before he transferred, remember
because they had some injuries or I forget exactly the

(50:22):
way it played out, but just what are we waiting for?
And this is always a personnel thing, you know, with
coaching staff, because like, well, he doesn't quite know the
offense yet. It's like, well, coach, we're losing forty to
ten each week. So the quarterback that knows the offense
sure as hell can't run it, so we might as
well just go with the young guy. Throw him in.
Especially now, and these coaches have talked about it more.
These guys are much more prepared coming into the NFL

(50:44):
in the sense of they've thrown so much right, so yeah,
they you know, is it an easy transition to every
offense coming from college. Of course not, but a lot
of people have said, you know, Lane's offense has really
matured over the years and some of the stuff. That's
why they kind of liked him. So I think I
would Tree Jackson Dart if I'm one in three boom

(51:06):
He's I.

Speaker 2 (51:06):
Would do it.

Speaker 1 (51:07):
The fan base they are going to want no part
of Russell Wilson. I mean that. I think the Russell
Wilson and Flacco you could get booze week one. If
you're down fifteen points at a half time, I think
you start getting chance for Shador and Jackson Dart. Do
you know, I can see that coming from a mile away.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
I don't think there's ever been a player that has
eroded as quickly as Russell Wilson. I mean, I was
Team Russ and I knew, you know, I had talked
to Greg Cosel on the air and off that I
knew he wasn't great from the pocket, but he threw
the best rainbow ball.

Speaker 1 (51:40):
He was elusive.

Speaker 2 (51:41):
He was like not as athletic as Kyler Murray, but
there was a little bit of Kyler Murray where you're
like nobody can get Nobody got a shot on him
for years, and because of baseball, he was a great slider,
unlike a Lamar Jackson or Michael Vick, who are better
athletes but get popped. Like nobody ever hit Russ. And
then all of a sudden he goes to Denver and
it's like, wow, this is he looked puffy, he almost

(52:05):
got stronger. It's like he worked out too much. He
got slower, thicker, you know whatever. It was kind of
disconnected from reality, like he was Pete Carroll and that
defense sort of protected him. And I mean, maybe I
just overvalued him, but I don't remember ever in my
lifetime a quarterback in two different environments, being criticized by

(52:29):
teammates and turning off a legendary head coach quickly, like
I don't even know what to make of Russ's career.
I don't even have a comp for it.

Speaker 1 (52:37):
In the NFL, he was way better for longer than
Deshaun Watson, but their styles were similar. Once you stopped
making the place, you're not good within the pocket, and
your instincts in terms of avoiding sacks are not great.
So they run into a lot of sacks. And remember,
for a long time when Russell was still making plays,

(52:57):
the offensive line would just get destroyed. And internally, I
don't think our offensive line is that bad. He's running
into him, but he was making enough to kind of
scramble outside the tackle, throw a bomb at an opportune time,
and everyone's like superstar. But he was the only guy
really playing like that, right. He wasn't doing his work
inside the pocket because he couldn't. He's not really a
timing and rhythm guy. He's a playmaker. Same with Deshan.

(53:20):
The moment that left where they got, they would second
guess themselves, so they are steps slower, they run into
more sacks. It dissolves fast, and the offense looks all
of a sudden, you look like the worst offense in
the league. It's not even functionable. And I think Russell,
I don't know if his athleticism diminished, you know, in

(53:41):
his mid thirties, if he started hesitating after a couple
of bumps and bruises, but that playmaking just disappeared overnight.
And then he got with a couple of coaches. They're like, Okay,
we're not even gonna try to do that play within
our offense, and he couldn't do it. And then there's
the element of clearly a little different, like his just personality,
which works when you're winning. I think can just turn

(54:01):
off people because the one thing the NFL has, I
think in a locker room with coaching, it's a pretty
authentic league, like people are just pretty normal and people
just themselves. And I think sometimes when people think you're
being fake, even if he's not, because in farness to Russell,
he's kind of been the same thing since like Wisconsin,
you know, so I don't know if you can put on, uh,

(54:22):
you know, uh fake that personality for that long. I
think that's just who he is. I just don't think
a lot of people in the NFL are like that,
so it can't really relate to that. And it's one
thing when you're winning, put up with anything. You start losing,
it's like, what the hell is this? You know, this
is kind of a beer drinking. We've got a lot
of chew. We're just a bunch of dudes, and we
got this dude saying this stuff that is like, no

(54:45):
one talks that. You're talking like a politician or something.
You're just a quarterback, bro. Can you just act normal?
Even Tom put on the corporate face in front of
the mic, then be a guy's guy with grown Kentucky. Yeah,
he can just be a dude. And that's where Russell,
that's that's why I think some of these guys have
turned on them, because some of these guys he's played
with in the last couple of years that they weren't
around when he was throwing, you know, in twenty seventeen,

(55:08):
all these comeback victories. They don't even know that means
nothing to them. It's twenty twenty four, twenty twenty five.
I think you saw it last year with DeShawn Now
he was playing worse, you know. In fairness to Russell,
Deshawn's a much worse player the last couple years than
Russell Wilson. But once you start playing bad, and I
think we're losing because of you. These players, I mean,
most guys are not Miles garrett On kind of scholarship

(55:32):
for years, like you get cut at any moment you
start losing. Jobs are on the line, so people turn
on each other quick. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
The you know, I was sitting here looking at my notes.
We haven't really talked about it, but so they're not
playing Matt Stafford. Rams apparently dominated the Cowboys at that
practice they had and then they didn't play Matt Stafford,

(55:59):
and you know, controlled the Cowboys when they played in
the game. And I have said this, the Cowboys I
think have one of the weaker staffs. I think the
Mica and the Trayvon Diggs noise. These guys don't. They
want new deals. And I mean the Rams are playing
Stetson Bennett like they're not. They're you know who, by

(56:21):
the way, I'm not I mean like disappeared came back.
I'll throw this out if I said to you the
two bottom teams in the NFL, I think the Giants
are going to be one mostly because of their quarterback
situation and their center. I actually like some of their players.
Their schedules brutal, their schedules absolutely brutal. They're going to

(56:43):
go zero and four against probably Washington and Philadelphia at best.
They split with Dallas, but I think we would both
say the Giants with the schedule, in their quarterback situation,
it's going to be pretty dire. We know Cleveland and
the Saints could be really bad. Dallas may not have
playoff wins over the last thirty years, not many of them.

(57:04):
Is it possible they are a three win team? Is
it possible?

Speaker 1 (57:10):
I think it's very difficult. If Dak plays a lot
of games. If you tell me Dak plays fifteen sixteen games,
even really shitty, they're probably winning fifteen or sixteen or
I mean five or six games. One things Jerry's proven
is they have had guys kind of come out of
nowhere overshown. They actually draft pretty well, so they get
some guys they nail their first round picks usually yeah,

(57:30):
and they get some guys in the mid rounds that
are just saw some random guy on defense playing safety
that you didn't Who's this Deron Bland guy from SAX
State prisone state transfer. They've been a pretty good drafting team.
Hard to overcome, you know, a coaching staff if you're right,
they don't have one of the good staffs. I mean,
this guy was not This guy would not have been
a coordinator in the league. Now, some stuff, you know,
it's it's perception, it's you know, the buzz of your candidacy.

(57:54):
Are you high or you low? That matters in the
NFL or college too. And he was obviously not thought
of like he once was. But that's a fact. He
would not have been a coordinator in the league. You know,
Eberflus people think he's a good defensive coordinator. Well, they
just re hired him because they knew him, you know,
because he was coaching on their staff several years ago.
Kind of a classic Jerry thing. Mike had Parsons. We
have some I mean, Bosa was it two years ago,

(58:16):
set out all camp and just wasn't quite the same
that season. You know, even if you're working on your
own beside practice in the weight room with the training staff,
it's not the same as getting the practice rep. So
even if they signed him September first and he plays
or I guess they'd probably need to do a little
before that because they're playing Thursday night football, But the
expectation for him would have to be tempered a little bit.
And they they're depending on a ton of young guys

(58:39):
on the offensive line and that can be very hit
or miss. Yeah, when it hits, it's awesome. We saw
the Chiefs kind of doing that last year too, and
I was like, whoa, Well, you know, so it's it
can flip on you quick. So three fields. I do
think they have an infrastructure of guys that have won,
Like even when Mike had comes back, he's won a
lot of games, Dak Ceedee Lamb. Like, they got some
solid players. But I do think he could just be

(59:00):
they could be the last place team in the division
if if the coach is over his head and they're
I mean they're pretty top heavy. I mean, Ceedee Lamb
pulls amstring. What the hell are you gonna do?

Speaker 2 (59:08):
Yeah, George Pickenson, Yeah, I mean I agree with you,
and I was a little over the top. I coaching
is at least thirty to forty percent of this league.
It's a big part because you know the margins is,
you know, the average game is decided by four to
six points. And I mean Mike McCarthy's a good coach
and struggled in close games. I mean they always had

(59:28):
too many penalties with Mike McCarthy. They weren't good situationally.
Some of that is what you know Dak Cooper rush
Dak got banged up. Dak Now and he's never been
a great thrower. Dack Now is a pocket quarterback. So
my take is the George Picken acquisition could end up
being you know, we all looked at it and went,

(59:48):
oh boy, oh immature. It may have saved this team
because you can't roll your coverage over now to just
ceede Lamb. Because George is such a hard physical matchup,
with his coaching, with his catching radius. My take is
there's always an acquisition, and we look at it was
maybe Xavier McKinney for the Packers or somebody when they

(01:00:09):
got him. Didn't the get him with the Giants. You
look at you're like, god, damn, he's a good football player.
I think the George Pickens thing really ends up kind
of at least making the Cowboys a good watch. I mean,
I'll watch I want to watch Pickens with Zak. I
did I really do I want.

Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
To watch him with brun Shott Nimers. He listening to him,
I mean, he wasn't listening to Mike Tomlins's gonna listen
to that guy. I think one Gruden talked about this,
Mike Lombardi talked about this those latter years of Al Davis,
and it was always probably like this. But when it
got really out of control, players knew that when the
coordinator the head coach got mad at him, they would
just circumvent them and go right to the owner's office

(01:00:48):
because they knew he was in charge if he wanted
to of the plays of who got cut like he was,
he was very involved in football and he was making
all the decisions. That is not the case with all
the teams. Right, if you play for the Chiefs, you
know who the bosses, Andy Reid, you know you play
for the good teams. You know the boss, the head coach,
and the GM. You're not circumventing them to the owner

(01:01:10):
right when that happens. Remember when Chip Kelly got fired
in Philly, and like some of the players were talking
to Jeffrey Lury, it was like, that's never a good sign.
You know what you have it you don't hear that
In Philadelphia? They know Howie and Sirianne like, if you
you got an issue, you go to them, right. And
I think that these players, especially the last couple of years,
because Jerry in the social media world we live in,

(01:01:33):
he's so out front, he talks so much. They do
Mike McCarthy, who had won a Super Bowl and won
a ton of games, like, ultimatelybody, you're not the boss, right,
We'll go to Jerry if we have an issue, and
then and then I'll just become a public thing and
it becomes a shit show. I think it's hard to
overcome that, and I think they almost did, because, let's
face it, like Mike kind of knows what he's doing.

(01:01:53):
He has some limitations, and I you know, he's got
exposed a couple times in the playoffs, but he's a
pretty good coach. Went twelve games three years in a
row with with Jerry, which is not easy to do.
Is Brian gonna be able to handle that? Like a
what if Mike Parsons doesn't like what Eberflus is telling him.
Once he's finally signed, let's go. I mean he's already
been meet with Jerry. He just go to Jerry's office, Hey, Jerry,
we got this is not Can you talk to Evira
Fluis about running this coverage? Because that was a classic thing.

(01:02:17):
Now Al was more involved, like truly with the scheme.
But if I was a player and I had if
I thought the coach was an idiot, and I had
an owner like Jerry, I'd go right up to his
officer give him a call, Jerry Steven, this is not
going to work for me. And that is a media implosion,
And that might be if this team really goes down,
that could be something that Dak and his leadership couldn't

(01:02:39):
even overcome. That's where it could really be a problem.
And I do think the gap between a Mike McCarthy
and Brian Schottenheimer could be like at the forefront, be like,
there's a gap between those two guys. And remember last
year Mike Dak got injured with the hamstring injury, and
I was like, oh, they're fucked. And then as the
season went on, you're like, you know, there's pretty respect

(01:03:00):
what they did the way it was just like they're
a well run operation. There's a big gap. And we
talked about this with Jim Harbaugh. They could be a disaster,
but they'll still win eight or nine games, not two
or three, right like they did with that year with
Brandon Staley when they imploded. Well, the difference between eight
and three or four can be a couple of players
just quitting on you in October and then all of

(01:03:20):
a sudden you kind of like start questioning yourself and
it can't implod. So maybe worst case scenario, you get
weird stuff happening in an injury. Players quit on you
and don't believe in you. It could be a problem,
and that would be Jerry's fault. Jerry's created this. You know,
culture gets thrown around a lot, but the culture in
Dallas is just Jerry, right. You just kind of do
what Jerry wants. Jerry's in control. Mike McCarthy plays out

(01:03:43):
his last season. That was bizarre the way he does.
These players, I mean, they're just kind of run right
now really unlike all the respectable teams. And you know,
for three years with Mike McCarthy, I know, they bombed
out the playoff. They were respectable twelve games every year,
really good players. But all the other teams they're competing,
the Packers, the Niners, all the teams they are losing
to They don't operate anything like that with their owner.

(01:04:06):
But it's not going to stop as long as you know.
It feels like it's getting worse, doesn't it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:12):
No, I think going back to your initial comment, I
think they they're starting to feel like Al Davis the
last six or seven years. They're It's interesting what power
does to men. I think women tend to age a
little bit more gracefully, but wealthy guys, you know, it

(01:04:33):
could be Sumner Redstone. Is it Summer Redstone or Sumner Redstone.
I forget a lot of these old guys. They get
a little crazy and they lack self awareness, and most
of them are not like Warren Buffett. It's like, hey,
I could still do this for three or four more years,
but you know it's time. And I think you see this.

(01:04:57):
I mean the NFL, of all these sports owners ship groups,
it is a good old boys club. And they they
wouldn't you know, they wouldn't even consider bringing in probably
a Mark Cuban like the NBA did. They wouldn't even
consider it. And it's just it's just a place where
Jerry and Bob Kraft and Stan Kronke, there's a handful

(01:05:19):
of owners who are highly influential, and.

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
Jerry knows it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:24):
But the problem being is, you know, once once you
get close to the first number in your age being eight,
it's different. I mean, I Vin Scully was broadcasting, you know,
in his seventies. You can Al michaels is seventy seven.
There's a big gap. You start getting, you start getting
seventy nine, eighty eighty one.

Speaker 1 (01:05:43):
Your faculties aren't the same, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
And it's like, and Jerry's lived hard, Jerry's lived a
big life, and Al Jerry parties. Jerry parties today and
Al lived a big life, and so it's not a shot.
It's just I think about this stuff all the time.
Is that I loved age gracefully and I probably won't.
So I just I think it's one of those things
where it's become the Lakers a little bit. It's it's

(01:06:08):
new ownership and it'll never happen. Would not be terrible,
like the Bus Family got you know, Kobe's agent, Rob
Polenka is the GM and there's all sorts of friends
and family cowboys. Just they're not the Bears. They're not
totally dysfunctional in ownership with like eleven kids.

Speaker 1 (01:06:25):
But they're not.

Speaker 2 (01:06:26):
They're closer to the Bears than they are to the
Rams right now.

Speaker 1 (01:06:30):
I agree, they just have more money. Yeah right, you know,
I think you bring up Robert Kraft. Obviously it ended
really poorly with Bill, but for those twenty years, Robert
became a star. But Bill got to be the face,
you know, the face of the team, at the forefront
of making the decisions, and he bared the responsibility good
or bad, and he went out right. Robert joined him

(01:06:53):
when it was good, but if it was bad, Bill
took the arrows. Al Davis even in his prime and
Jerry in his prime could not have gone twenty years
with Bill Belichick getting all the credit of the good times.
I mean, they prove that. I mean, I would get
rid of coaches. And it's probably when they were winning
Super Bowls. And obviously Jerry, I mean had that early on.
It was like Jimmy, you're out, you know. And again

(01:07:13):
that was when Jerry was sharp as attack. I mean,
probably one of the more impressive business guys. And this
is the mid nineties. So your personality does it only
amplify and get more aggressive the more money you have,
Like you said, now he's in his eighties. I just
think it could get really, really weird because if the
team's not good, he's still calling into that radio show

(01:07:36):
every Tuesday morning. He's still in the locker room, which
doesn't happen anywhere else. I mean, it has dak and
these guys are so numb to it because it's all
they've ever seen. If you just put like a took
some dude from like the Rams, you know, like a
just take like a Puka Nakua or just any other
team and just put them on the Cowboys for like
a week after the game in the locker room and
the owner is over there, Like usually the press goes

(01:07:56):
to the quarterback, they go to the guy that made
the big play. Jerry walks in that room and he's
ready to hold court. They all go because his quote's
going to make the headlines. And unlike those guys that
might not say anything, you know, Jerry will.

Speaker 2 (01:08:09):
Yeah, let's wrap it up with this. You and I
had an interesting conversation driving home from the live tournament.
Is that, like I am always pro entrepreneur, Like when
Dana White took a UFC fight during COVID to an island.
I've always been pro Dana White. There was a lot

(01:08:30):
of critics of USC for a long time until Dany
got momentum. And there's still critics because his relationship with Trump. Whatever.
Dana is an entrepreneur and he has pushed back on
the media. He doesn't give a shit. I will always
defend commissioners and entrepreneurs who take swings. And that's what
I said. I mean the PGA, one am I loyal to?

Speaker 1 (01:08:49):
It was a charity.

Speaker 2 (01:08:49):
They didn't run Augusta, they didn't run the British Open,
and didn't run the US Open. So I was always
loyal to the golfer. But you brought up a really
interesting point this weekend and I briefly, briefly just said
hi to Brooks Koepka and watched them t off in
the first and watched this.

Speaker 1 (01:09:04):
He said, Heidi, he walked over to you. Come now.

Speaker 2 (01:09:06):
He's Brooks is a sports fan. He knows what's going on,
and I'm a huge fan. In fact, I'm bombed out
that he asked we played that well? And I won't
share with you what he said because I said, man,
you're you look in really good shape, and that he
made a funny joke and I'm not going to repeat it,
but he's an interesting one because Brooks Kopka, you and
I talked about this car. He he likes.

Speaker 1 (01:09:25):
Being on the PGA.

Speaker 2 (01:09:26):
But if somebody offers you what is one hundred and
twenty five million, it's generational. Like golf's hard. Golf's a grind.
Golf was a grind for Tiger when he was the
best player in the world. I mean, he melted down personally.
It's it's a grind. It's you don't have a you
don't have a GM or a coach, you can't have
an off week. I mean, it's like being a lawyer.
You don't get paid if you're not on the if

(01:09:47):
you're not on the course. Tiger did, but through you know,
Nike and others. But the point being is you would
mention to me, is that, Okay, now these guys got paid,
and when those contracts are up for a Pill or
a Brooks Koepka, well it's very doubtful they're going to
get another massive payday.

Speaker 1 (01:10:07):
Brooks.

Speaker 2 (01:10:08):
I think Phil has so much animosity toward and he's
gonna play. You know, he got the Masters because he's
won the Masters, so you get a lifetime exception for that, right,
So what word is do you think somebody, do you
think any of these guys will go back? Because you
only the live you play three rounds, not four. So
a lot of these guys, unless it's a major and

(01:10:28):
they have an exemption that they're not, they can't play
back on the tour, right, So what happens for some
of these guys if they don't get a second big
bag of money.

Speaker 1 (01:10:41):
I love golf and I've been I mean our experience
was really cool, and meeting Scott O'Neil that had nothing
to do with this. I mean he was just hired
to replace Greg Norman six months ago. But what Greg
and j Monahan felt like a personal fight. It's like
they you know, Greg Norman had a vandetta. Yep, he
got the people with the somehow with the most money
in the world to finance that vandetta and went on

(01:11:03):
the attack and the PGA Tour, like a lot of
country clubs would, they fought back on any ideas and
change and it created this and it made all these
guys wealthy PGA Tour players. I mean, Scotty Scheffer just
finished second. I think he'll get one and a half
million dollars. I mean these guys are making Back in
the day when Tiger first hit it big, I don't
think there were many tournaments that paid a million to win,

(01:11:24):
So I mean the money flowing on the PGA Tour
and obviously on Live is massive. All these guys have
net Jet towels, right, not Tiger Woods and Scotti Scheffler,
Like the seventy fifth guy isn't checking into United with
me flying home to Arizona. But I do think talking
to Scott O'Neill, you know the Live now is run
by a guy that has an NBA background. The PGA

(01:11:47):
Tour is now run by a guy personally picked by
Tiger that worked with Roger Goodell. You know what those
guys care about business and the tour. Do you know
who's benefited the most of this separation, not Live or
the PGA Tour in the sense of like their businesses,
because the PGA Tour is still fighting like that Wells
Fargo and they've had sponsors back out yep. And it's

(01:12:07):
the majors because that's when you get to see Bryce
in Brooks, DJ Scotty altogether. And these guys know that
I was blown away. I had heard his name, but
i'd never met him personally. You know, Scott O'Neil's really
high level guy. Yeah, and clearly Brian roll App the
PJ Tour guy. If you're a right hand man for
Roger Goodell for twenty plus years, I mean you probably

(01:12:29):
know what you're doing. And he was giving us great
stories yesterday of dealing with I don't know, David Stern
and Josh Harris who just happens on the Sixers and the.

Speaker 2 (01:12:37):
Red Stone, and James Dolan, like he's dealt with volcanic personalities.

Speaker 1 (01:12:43):
I think it's a huge strength of his is and
roll App was the same. They're not golfers, so they're
not role apps that I play like three or four
times a year. So that means they're not like country
club guys. They're not thinking about the game. They think
about business and it's pretty black and white to get
figure out of way to make this happen, and talking
to him yesterday, I don't know when it's gonna happen,

(01:13:05):
but like they understand that because it's this is a sport.
Golf's a little stronger in tennis. Usually tennis guys what
two or three guys that are like stars, right, they
had the last twenty years, Like you know, Federal Golf
stall Djokovic Golf typically has a lineup of even if
it's Tiger and Phil, there are seven eight more guys
who are pretty famous.

Speaker 2 (01:13:24):
To Ernie L's yesterday in order, Phil, Dustin, Sergio kept
going and we didn't even see Bryson. There was like
six guys in a row, and I'm like, oh, there's Phil,
there's Dustin, there's Surge and then Hatton, the European guy
who's a stud. By the way, he doesn't even look
like a golfer in that heat. He had long sleeved
shirt on him, like, and he was drenched. So like

(01:13:46):
they're they're listen again. Certain players you get exemptions right
for a certain amount of time. But the bottom line
is the PGA doesn't run the Masters like they need
tournaments that aren't majors to be interesting, and right now
a lot of them aren't.

Speaker 1 (01:14:07):
Yeah, totally. I mean, I think as someone that loves
the sport, you've got to figure out a way to
allow John Rahm to play waste management. You have to
let Bryson d Chambeau, who's a California guy to play
Pebble Beach if he wants to. When they go play
the Arnold Palmer in Florida, Brooks and DJ those guys
live there. Hey, you guys want to play there and
find a way to do. All these guys are friends.

(01:14:29):
I mean, Brooks lives next to Rory. They play all
the time, you know. I mean Terrell Hadden's on the
Ryder Cup team with Justin Rose, Roy McElroy, John Rahm.
All these guys. It's a small, small world. And they
all live in three or four cities throughout America. Phoenix, Dallas, Jupiter, Florida.
They all know each other, and at this point in time,
I think sometimes, like any big fight, emotions were high

(01:14:49):
two or three years ago, they've mellowed out. I mean
I had never been that close to it. I'd never
gone to a golf event like that with a media,
no when people being a It's got when I first
got into radio and I started going to baseball games,
and you could just walk up to batting practice and
just like have a conversation with Bruce Bochi two hours

(01:15:10):
before the game. I'm like, if you walked up to
Andy Reid on a game day and try to talk
to him. I mean he would have shoved you out
of the you know, the camera. But it was a
different culture and golf it's like this guy's hitting some balls.
Brook come over, have a joke. Guy Sergio walks by,
how you doing. Brennan Steele, who was obviously a big
fan of you, just came over and talked for a while.
He plays golf with Joel Klatt in southern California. The

(01:15:33):
culture of golf is a little more melt once they
get on the course, you could tell, like all business
once they hit. But on the driving range put like
you can have conversations. So it's just it's different than
some of these other sports. But financially that there is
a lot I mean it's that's where it's unique. I
mean there's a lot of money in terms of the
people that get involved. I mean look at the typically
the sponsors. It's like Rolex Mercedes. I mean most of

(01:15:55):
these guys, throughout the course of their career sponsored by
huge brands. I mean Phil Forever was like AMG. It's
like Phil, what what is KPMG getting out of it? Well,
they got out of it. They would bring him to
corporate events and he would play with people they want
to do business with. You know that they want Apples accounting,
so they have an event. Hey Phil, will you play
with Tim Cook in this round? Right right? And that's

(01:16:15):
what they paid Phil twenty five million dollars a year
to do. So that's where golf is. It's almost intersex.
I would say, you know, we talked about NFL as
this huge business, and it is, but the players on
the field aren't like dealing with corporate you know, it's
golf is. The intersection is strong. It's all kind of
under one umbrella. The business, the golf, the sponsors. They're

(01:16:38):
all kind of interconnected. And that's where I think the
strength is in the group. And Live has four or
five guys that golf really needs to be playing with
the other guys.

Speaker 2 (01:16:49):
Yeah, John Middlekoff, great stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:16:53):
I'll say it again.

Speaker 2 (01:16:54):
Michelson's got a little you know, he's got that five
o'clock shadow.

Speaker 1 (01:16:58):
He looks slender. I mean, he inspired me. I gotta
lose some word about me. He looks fantasy. He's got
to be in his best shape he's ever been in
his life. I'm fifty five years old. Yeah, all right,
good talk anybody, Thanks for The Hospitality Colin all Right
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Colin Cowherd

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