Confessions of a Writer ft. Rico Love

Rico Love Tells Real Story Behind Usher's "Confessions", Beyonce & Spending $150k on Clothes a Month   GET YOUR HOME GROWN MERCH :
homegrownradio.bigcartel.com

STAY CONNECTED :
HOME GROWN RADIO
www.Twitter.com/HomeGrownRadio
www.Instagram.com/HomeGrownRadio
www.facebook.com/homegrownradionet  

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
How right were back at it. It's DJ Head, it's homegrown.
I got a legend in the building hanging out with
me today and I've been meaning to get to this
for a minute. Honestly, I don't spend a lot of
time on the other side of the country. And you
know this man flew in just to do the show
with me today.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Straight from Africa.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Ladies and gentlemen, the legend himself, Rico Love Sand the
Light song Turn the Lights song man, first and foremost.
I want to say this publicly well on record, document it.
I've been wanting to do this for a long time.
You are somebody who I look at like, I don't
want to say it's kind of like one of them
cliche things where they say, oh, you don't get your flowers,

(00:47):
you don't get your just due.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
But I feel like a lot of people.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
Have benefited off the back of Rico Love right, and
countless and countless people because you got to figure even
the artists that you've worked with, that you coached, that
you mentored, that you wrote for, that you produced for,
or that you have featured on your ship have ecosystems
among themselves, right, They have assistants, They have drivers they
had So if you think about that, from the from

(01:11):
the tree of Rico Love, a lot of people have
benefited off the back. So I want to give you
thatsolute thank you so much first and foremost. And then
also I mean we don't get into the records and
the music and all that stuff, but how how is
Rico Love feeling? Because we were just talking and you
you've been, You've been everywhere you was in Africa.

Speaker 2 (01:29):
What was you in Africa for if you I was
visiting Africa with Afro Zones celebrating the edition of the
African Performance Category to the Grammys, right, And then we
just kind of spent a few days out there just
running around and hung out with Mama Burner and just
Sheila oh, Emanuel lineus, like tons of tons of elected

(01:50):
officials in the government. Just had a great time and
just building building, really really figuring out what the future
is going to look like for not only just the BMC,
but so that we love Music Conference and everything I
got going on, shout out to the BMC too.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
We were at the event and everybody's here for for
Grammy Week, but we was at the BMC event and
Yo Rico walked up in this like just since it's gigantic,
Like I don't know.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
What animal it was.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
I don't know what the animal it was, but it
was white and it was beautiful, and you look like
you look like I forgot which villain which Marvel.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
Character is, but you look like a full Marvel character.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
And I was like I could at first when it
caught my eye and I was like, oh, yeah, that's Rico.
You know you're known for, you know, your luxury. I
look at look at Rico love like a luxury brand.
That's you know what I'm saying, Like like Apple, I
like that.

Speaker 2 (02:47):
I like that? Is that intentional? Is that?

Speaker 1 (02:49):
Because I also want to for the artist that's gonna
watch this and hear this. Is that part of being
an artist, is that part of being a.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
Creative, It's it's absolutely intentional part of how it's what
makes me feel good, is what makes me feel like myself.
So I don't feel like I need all of these things,
but it makes me feel like wealth. And I feel
like in order to gain wealth, you had to look
like wealth. You got to speak wealth, you got to

(03:18):
walk in it, you gotta live in it. So it's
something that's a part of who I am in my DNA,
and believe it or not, I haven't. I haven't shopped
in years, and people look at my wardrobe and there
as soon as well, when you say you haven't shopped
in somebody does the shopping for you, meaning I haven't
even had to go shopping yet. Oh you've got I
have so many things that I accumulated over time, and

(03:39):
I've selected great pieces. So when you look at my pieces,
it looks like I just got it. But I've collected
the right types of pieces over the years, over time,
and there was there was And also I was in
a space for many years where I was overwel I
had gained a lot of weight, so I was sixty
five pounds heavier than I am right now. So for
a long time I couldn't wear a lot of stuff.

(04:00):
So I'm pulling out things now and people are like,
what's that. Yeah, I couldn't wear this for a while,
so now I can. But yeah, I haven't. I haven't.
People assumed that I shop every single day, you know
what I mean? I would assume that. Yeah, when they
look at my wardrobe and they look at you know,
I like to get dressed, and that's that's someone that's
a part of who I am. I came up under
Puff and Usher, you know what I mean. Those is
my big brothers and mentors in the business. So that's

(04:22):
what I saw. That's all I knew. You know, Mason,
you know Iddy Usher me. Yeah, So that was a
reflection of what I wanted to be, how I want
to look and feel. I grew up in that era
of looking at that idolizing that opulence. But believe it
or not, I've just accumulated in uh incredible collection that

(04:43):
I feel like my closet is like curated, so I
don't have to It was a time in my life
where I was spending ridiculously ridiculous amounts of money on clothes.
What's that look like a ridiculous amount just I mean
probably like one hundred and fifty thousand on a month. Yeah. Yeah,
I'm not exaggerating, And I'm not saying it to brag. No,

(05:06):
I'm not saying it. I'm saying it like I don't
feel like that was a part of my life that
I don't feel like I need to repeat. But also
it was a part of my life that I was like,
why you don't really have to do this. You know.
What happened was one day a good friend of mine,
mister Ruggs, actually Ruggs said to me, he was like,

(05:27):
you know, these guys are still in these clothes, bro.
You know, like you look, you you really are buying
clothes and every people in here is boosting like or
they buy it and bring it back, or you're the
only person that's really buying this stuff, like you don't chill. Yeah,
Like And I looked at it, and I'm like yeah,
because everything about me, I'm not a poser. So everything
I represent is like always like authentic. So that was

(05:50):
a wake up call for me, you know what I mean.
So I was just like, why am I doing this?
And then I went through some very difficult times and
I wasn't able to shop that way. So when I
wasn't able to for a long time, I thought to myself,
I'm okay, like I don't have to do this. So
then when I was back in a position where I
was able to, I didn't need to. I didn't feel
the desire to. But I do love nice clothes and

(06:12):
nice friends. So I can get small pieces and I
can do little things to put things together. But I
don't have to shop the way that I used to.
I have an incredible collection of timeless pieces.

Speaker 1 (06:21):
That's insane. First of all, one hundred and fifty a month.
Is why did you do that for like twelve months
or you did that for like more years?

Speaker 2 (06:30):
Years? Yeah, a couple of years, Like I was really
going crazy. You know, I'm trying to I'm good at
including you know, I'm very serious that I'm not. And
again I'm not saying it to say that I advise it,
or because I know a lot of people talk about
money they spent and they try to be like, yeah,
that's not I want to do it as a precautionary
tale to tell people like, yo, you don't have to

(06:52):
do it. You don't have to do that. And the
thing about it is I have accumulated in great amount
and I've given away millions of dollars worth of clothes.
I've given away to friends and people around me. Now
I have a son who's thirteen and he's almost my height,
so I don't ever have to give anything away outside
of you know, my son. But I've given away so

(07:13):
much to people, and I love to give and I
love to do that, so that's not a big deal.
But I would say, if anybody's looking at this, you
don't really need that. You don't have to do that,
you know, because you know that's the perception.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
That's that's the that's the that's what that's what's fed
is that you have to have this or you have
to have that.

Speaker 2 (07:30):
Yeah, and I think that it's it's because we're competing
with each other, and if everybody is poor, then whoever
looks the richest amongst the poor is the coolest in
the room. So I just don't want us to get
caught up in that because we're we're all in this
fight together. We shouldn't be trying to shine on each other.
We should be trying to shine with each other.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
Shout out to my big brother Glasses Jim Malone. He
always told me that, He said, why would you go
to the hood and try to outshine on shine on
your people?

Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah, that's the people. But that's and it just show
the consistency of what that comes station is out here
is the fact that we are all living in tough
situations and in order for us to feel better about
our condition. That's why a lot of kids in the
project would have Jordans on You're like that this don't
make sense. Don't make sense because it's like my baby
got the Jordan's. It was really the mom and then
it was teaching that to the children. So then the

(08:18):
kids grow up and be like, I got these and
you don't got this. We're making fun of you, and
why because this is how we feel society is treating us.
And if you're being abused from this perspective, then whoever's
blow you, that's who you abuse. It who's below them
this they abuse, and the cycle repeaza and repeats and repeats.
So I think that the idea of having to make
sure I got this and a lot of people I

(08:39):
remember somebody saying like, oh man, you what already?

Speaker 1 (08:41):
I know you can't wear that again. I'm like trying
running this back. When's the last time you repeated an outfit?

Speaker 2 (08:48):
Do you know our repeat office?

Speaker 1 (08:51):
No, I'm talking about like, did you wear anything like
to the Grammys or to an awards, a ceremonial.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
It's jacket I got on our Wars to the Grammys
last year. No, two years ago. See that's why it's
on the red carpet. It's Virgil. It's one of the
last pieces that Virgil made word and I wore this
on at the Grammy, So now I just kind of
wear it. I wear it. It's like a casual jacket,
you know what I mean. This is like some fun,
you know, something to put on. But yeah, yeah, I
take pieces that seem extremely luxurious and I'll dress them down,

(09:20):
Like I wear this with a hoodie that white firl
I had on last night. Yeah, it would be nothing
for me to be out with that with some jeans
and a hoodie on with that, you know what I mean.
I feel like just kind of like you go to
the big event with it and you shine, but then
after that it becomes a part of your wardrobe and
you can put it out in time.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
You I loved that bro you brought up you said
earlier in your career. I do want to go back
a little bit because I never had a chance to
talk to you about it. But I remember you telling
the story about how you got your first record deal.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
I think it was twenty years old, is that. Yeah?
I was like around, well I got signed, I was
like eighteen nineteen.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
Years okay, So when you first got signed in eighteen nineteen,
I feel like a lot of artists feel.

Speaker 2 (09:57):
Like that's how it's supposed to happen.

Speaker 1 (09:59):
Right, I get signed as I'm young, the label gives
me a million dollars.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
Remember I thought that, Right, the label.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
Gives me a million dollars, and then I'm just famous,
and now I go get one hundred thousand dollars a
show that I think in people's mind, a lot of
artists that especially the ones that I talked to, all
of them think that that's how it goes. And your
story is a little different, like you have to earn
your key, and and like you said, you go up
and then you come down, and then you climb.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
Back, and and it keeps going up and down, up
and down, up and down until you find something that
established a certain type of welfare. You you know what
I mean. And that's the difference. But yeah, there was
an idea that you're supposed to get signed. I remember,
did you believe that? Yes? Okay, so you thought. I
remember getting signed and when I put out a single.

(10:49):
I put out a single called Settled down right, and
it was on a soundtrack called in the Mix a
movie to us did because I did this soundtrack and
we shot a video for it. I remember after the video.
I flew everybody, my friends out to the video, and
I was thinking to myself, this song is gonna be crazy.
So I was just telling I remember telling the banker
I think his name is Hernandez at SunTrust Bank. I

(11:12):
remember telling them, Yeah, I need to know because I'm
about to probably be on the road a lot. I'm
probably gonna be get like twenty thirty thousand a night.
I need to know how to you know, do I
deposit it? And how do I get it to y'all?
And I'm just talking again. He's like, oh, yeah, well
what you could do? And I'm just thinking like, oh
this not it didn't work out like it don't work
like that. So so yeah, you have these expectations. I

(11:35):
think now it's different because social media has erased the
mystique of the music business. So I don't think that
people people kind of know, they know that it's difficult.
It's not the same obviously, those rare occurrences where artists
just take off where you got hunchos and skill of babies,
and you know, artists are just kind of have create

(11:57):
these buzzes and that time they took, you know, Rod
for the time it took for these guys to develop
with some real time. But I think guys look at
that and they believe it's overnight, and they believe it's
gonna happen for them overnight.

Speaker 1 (12:08):
I believe that. Do you think that now? Okay? So
also i'll skip something. You got your deal eighteen, nineteen
twenty is around that time, right, but then you signed
an artist like a year later, immediately to Cara Hamilton shot, okay,
what okay, I'm gonna tell you what I was doing
in nineteen. I lost my virginity at nineteen, like right

(12:33):
before I went to college. I lost my virginity like
eighteen transition in nineteen and I was skateboarding every day.
I was not trying to be a record executive at nineteen?
Did you already have that mind exactly.

Speaker 2 (12:44):
What I was going to be? I named my company
Division one. It was a guy named bj who was
in Atlanta as well. He moved down to Atlanta. We
kind of came up together, and I told him, yo,
we both played basketball, we love both love basketball. Let's
name our company Division one, and let's sign artists. And
he was like, bro, you haven't even you haven't even
got a deal yet, Like you and I was just

(13:05):
telling him and so I said, cool, I just started
it myself. So I started the label. And so as
soon as I got on.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
Not the cuntry when you say you started a label,
like you filed for business.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
Yes, yes, are you serious? Yeah? Damnay, continue sir. Yeah.
One of my mentors who who passed away, Bishop Long,
he gave me the money to start my business. What
was his investment. It was just seven hundred dollars to
pay for the for the business CFO. So I remember
starting Division one LLC and Ridan Georgia, you know, because

(13:36):
I was I was going back and forth and I
had lived in Atlanta just trying to make it. So
I remember being down there and I started the company.
And when I got signed to Usher, I was like, yo.
I was on the road with him and I was
telling to Carra because she's super talented still this day,
and I was like, yo, I'm gonna sign You're gonna
be my first artist. And you know, brought to Atlanta,
moved too fast, and you know, the loyalty was there,

(14:00):
and I can't blame but she was young. Everybody in
the face was young, but she was she was even
more young because you know, so, yeah, that was my mindset.
My mentality was. My mentality was I want to be
like Puff, I want to be like Russell. I want
to be like you know, look the guys I look
up to, and I want to be an executive. So

(14:21):
my whole idea of who I wanted to be was
as an artist. Was a brand. Was with Jay Z
and Rockefeller, was dm Y with Rough Riders, you know,
was you know, Diddy and bad Boy. That was my mindset.
So I thought, yeah, you put out a record, you
get popping. You signed something, they get popping. I saw
fifty do it with g Eunitt, you know what I mean.

(14:41):
I saw Jay Dowitt with Rockefeller, I saw so it
was like one of those things. It was. My mentality
was just Bill Bill Bill Bill Bill be an executive.
That's crazy, first of all.

Speaker 1 (14:50):
Second of all, that's dope, I mean, because you got
to have some balls on you to think to not
even be where you are and be like, yeah, I'm
a sign an artist, I'm gonna get a label. And
then also Bishop what's his name, shout the Bishop long
for even pouring into you in that way. Because a
lot of elder statesmen are OG's they'd be like, man,

(15:12):
if you don't get out of my fable, right, I
want to talk about from from a perspective of a songwriter,
because I mean, I mean, you're famous and people know
you who you are. But I also think that from
a songwriter's perspective, that's not something that's respected like it.

Speaker 2 (15:31):
Like it used to be.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
I don't want to sound like I don't want to
put a date on like like date the ideology of it, right,
But I think that songwriting has gotten diluted because people
feel like it's a it's a badge of honor that
I write my own ship. You you can write your
own trash shout the DJ clue he was just he
just had this whole rant about how songs are trash
and nobody's like writing songs anymore, and there's a structure

(15:55):
to it, and there's Yeah, there's an art. It's an
art form like to to write and craft a song,
not just for you as an artist, but also putting
yourself in somebody else's space and being able to write
for them. Right, what what was the first song you
wrote for somebody else that blew up?

Speaker 2 (16:14):
The first song I ever wrote was throwback for Usher Confessions. Wow. Yeah,
before that, I was just rapping. That was the first song.
I said, like, this is a song. I'm gonna write
a song for some money. That was so you wrote
it with the intention like this is for Usher. He
gave me the track. I went to his office and
I was like, I need money, and he was like,
so I was signed to him as a rap artist.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
I was like, if you're signing somebody, they already they
did your deal, you have your deal.

Speaker 2 (16:40):
But you went to him and just was like, need
some money, Like I didn't get paid when I see
my deal. It was a shopping agreement. So we were
we were going to do. We were in the midst
of him closing finalizing his deal with Jay Records, which
took about almost like a year after I was signed,
a year and a half after I got signed, So
I have money. And so the thing about me and
me and Usher's really ship was as soon as I

(17:01):
got signed, we spent a lot of time together as brothers.
So you would think he had an R and B
group called One Chance. You would think that he would
spend more time with the R and B group, But
he and I were like kindred spirits. So we were
like always together. He would call me like, come to
the house, let's hang out. I'm going here and hang out.
One time he caught me and said, fly yo, get
on the plane, come to l A. Bring an empty
bag empty and he just took me shopping. You know.

(17:23):
He was my friend. You know, it's my friend like
my brother. So he would We were hung around each
other so much so that I was on I was
on Diary MTV Diary with him, or and or he
did BT How I'm Living. You know, remember that show
how So I was on how all that so I
was there and invisible. And then they took me on tour.
So when people saw me, family members, cousins, all these

(17:44):
people friends, they were like, oh you on, No, I
need this, I need this. So I went to him
like I need money. My people need money. I think.
He said, I can give you money and you would
just blow it. How about I give you an opportunity
to make your own money. So write this song for me.
And he gave me this track and I was going
to write a rap to it, and my manager, Sircy,

(18:06):
he came to me and was like, first of all,
he was my first manager and he's still to this
day one of my best friends and my mentor. And
he said to me, I was sitting in the car.
He had a green Accura. I was sitting in the
accurate outside of Red Zone Studios, and he said, I
was writing. I was like writing raps. He said, no, bro,
write a song. He told you to write a song.

(18:26):
Don't write raps, write a real song. So I sang,
you never miss a good thing, t lesion in the
song and the voice naps and JQ JQ Smith demoed
it for me. He referenced it for me and changed
my whole life. Wow, that was the first song I
ever wrote. Do you think now?

Speaker 1 (18:43):
Okay, So, first of all, that's dope, But I think
that Confessions is one of those albums like I've gotten
to a real heated debate about this before, right, Like
it's a real thing. I don't know, I don't know
if it's that series at this point in time. But
when you start to revisit classics and you start to

(19:04):
deem things as classics.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
Right, Professions an instant classic, immediate.

Speaker 1 (19:10):
It wasn't like there was no discussion because again this
I won't say her name.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
She's a radio personality. I love her.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
There's a heated debate about this on the radio and
it's like, well, eighty seven oh one and I'm like,
it's Confessions. This is like one of those transcending albums
that I feel like change the climate. It wasn't just
oh this is an a dope Usher project. This changed climate,
you know what I'm saying between you and shout to
JD and like I feel like, I mean, I just

(19:41):
I want to get to sonically.

Speaker 2 (19:43):
And first of all, I think eighty seven to one
is one of my favorite Usher's albums. My Way is
one of my favorites. I love those albums. But even
though eighty seven to one was not a perfect album,
you know what I mean, it was there was Chinsen Armor,
Yeah yeah, U Turn wasn't one of my favorite songs
on there. It was a few on it. I felt
like a good old, good old, good old. I didn't

(20:05):
like that record. It was it was like two or
three on that that I didn't like. There was not
one song on Confessions that I don't absolutely love, you
know what I mean, even take my hand, you know
what I mean, that's what it's made for the records.
That was like deep Cuts. It's just a perfect album
in my opinion, is just a perfectly crafted album. And

(20:25):
I also a full disclosure.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
I want to say this because the purists that watched
my show and know who I am out here on
the West. I'm not an R and B fan by
any sense of the word. Really, I do not like
R and B. Wow, it's just because I think we've
more so got into the blues and forgot the rhythm
at this point. It's all melodic, it's all sixty bps.
I'm a DJ by trade too. You gotta think I

(20:49):
came up watching. I came up in the Little John era.
I came up watching looking at I came up looking
at Rick Rock and battle Cat. So I'm a party
DJ where the dance floor was bigger.

Speaker 2 (21:00):
Than the sections. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Okay, so what a time.

Speaker 1 (21:04):
And I'm not I am not. Women accused me of
not being emotionally available, so for lack of a better ways,
So so me being emotionally CONSTIPATEDB doesn't speak to me
the same way you know, you know, bitch, I'm under
radius switch like like, yeah, it's different, right, Okay, So

(21:28):
since we talk about confessions, though, I agree with you.
I love that album perfect. I love Confessions. I didn't
love eighty seven on one. My way and Stuff was
a little young. It was a little before me.

Speaker 2 (21:40):
But I love eighty seven on one, Okay. So that's
why my argument for Confessions is different. Strong. It makes
mot I love eighty seven on one. I used to
catch the bus to Atlanta every weekend, trying to make
it in the music business from Tallahassee and with the
College of fam You, I'll catch the bus every weekend
and I would listen to eighty seven to one. My
man Chad Roper used to drive me some weekends when

(22:00):
undercatched up, but sometimes he was available. He would drive
me to Atlanta on the weekends and we would play
eighty seven to one. That's the album we would play.
My man Brandon would drive me to He was from Pensacola, Florida.
He would drive me to Atlanta some weekends and we
would play eighty seven to one non stop. So me
meeting Usher and being you know, him, becoming one of

(22:21):
my close friends, my brothers, you know, the Godfather, and
my children. That is insane for me because I grew
up with that. With that going on, man, just call
me to mac and and you make me wanted like that.
I remember those moments. I remember where I was when
those songs came out. I remember hearing nice Love for
the first time and sitting down and thinking to myself,
what is this? How how can I don't know what

(22:42):
to do listening to this? This is that incredible. So
so for me to say that Confessions is a perfect
album and I think eighty seven oh one is not
a perfect album, in my opinion, it means a lot
because I think eighty seven to one is high up there,
but I could see the flaws. There are songs on
there that I'm like, we could have did without that record, right,
There is not one song on Confessions that I can

(23:03):
say I could have did without that.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
And my personal opinion, I don't think we needed a
deluxe like, I don't think we needed.

Speaker 2 (23:10):
You have to when it's coming to get so big,
it's like Netflix, Netflix has to figure out how to
charge you more because it's like, where do we go
from here? Where do we go? Okay, that's the business
of music, that's where it comes in. But it would
have been perfect without it. There's three or what happens
is when an album is so perfect. Usually, and this
is why I want to explain deluxees for people. When

(23:32):
an album is so perfect and people are full off
this album, the record company has to come away because
usually it's two singles. You work them over time. You
start off your you do two hundred thousand the first week,
and six months you're at gold and another year you're
at platinum. Alright, cool, now we're going to release the
next single and that's gonna help sell it. No, every

(23:53):
song on the album is a single. So what we
have to do is we did one point four million
the first week. We did six hundred eight hundred thousand
the first day. So in order for us to take
this record to the next level, all right, we got
to do it. You have to.

Speaker 1 (24:07):
It's the business of music. Yeah, you know, that's just
part of it. Were you around for the construction of
the entire Confessions album.

Speaker 2 (24:13):
I was a part for remnants of it. Okay, I
was there. I was. I was signed to him. I'm
not talking about like being involved like music. No, And
I was there. I witnessed a lot of it, but
I wasn't in the room for a lot of those songs.
But I was in that space I was signed to
him and I was a part of you know, his
his infrastructure when he was making that record.

Speaker 1 (24:31):
There's three urban legends that's around. Well, no, there's two
urban legends around the Confessions album. And then I also
want to talk about the JD thing because I got
a lot of heat for my love for Jermaine Duprie,
Like he's my top. He's like, he's my number one,
and I know I'm from the West Coast and I
know it's blastomist. JD's number one for me, like that,
he's the goat and I told him that and and like.

Speaker 2 (24:51):
He's the don't understand how somebody could well when I
could see if somebody's saying he's not my goat, no, no, no,
to say that that's so cool.

Speaker 1 (24:58):
Well, because there was a conversation that happened online that
I partake in and it went viral about the whole
versus thing when you know when Puff and JD with
Puff and JD, and I was like, it's JD by
Landslide and they're like, well, you from LA you know,
there's other producers that I you know that are from
here that you should be riding for. And I'm like,
JD has always been and always will be my number
one hip hop and R and B like Tim is

(25:21):
right there too, you know, and everybody else, but it's JD.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
Like JD there, unstoppable. I love j by the way.
I've been in the studio with JD many times. He's
one of my mentors and a dear friend. I've seen it.
He's doing it. He's making the beats himself. Yeah, he
got the NPC and he's banging hisself patterns and he's
and then he's writing the raps and he's singing the song.

(25:45):
He can't sing the savings like the singing, you know
what I mean? Yeah, yeah, no, No, he's different.

Speaker 1 (25:51):
Okay, So there's two urban legend that's surround the Confessions
album that I wanted to I'm asked JD about it too,
But from your knowledge is Burne was initially the first single,
but they switched to Yeah because they needed something different.

Speaker 2 (26:04):
Nah. What happened was Burne was always slated to be
the first record. When Sean Garrett wrote Yeah, it was
like it shook up the whole Atlanta. Everybody was talking
about this song and La Reid had Sean Garrett. I
think Sean Garrett signed a Hicco or he working Hicco
all the time, and no he wasn't, because I don't
think Sean did a public till later. But he was

(26:25):
a Hicco all the time, which is owned by La Reid.
So he heard this song and he's put out an
APB on and told Usher you gotta cut this song.
And I she was like, I'm not singing this song.
I'm not saying I shouldn't want it. No. I remember
being in the room and they played it. I was
dead when he played it for Usher and I fell
on the floor laughing. I thought it was terrible. She

(26:47):
thought it was terrible. By the way, Sean Garrett is
one of the greatest, and I'm telling you, yeah, it
was terrible. I'm in the club with the homies trying
to kick a little v and put it down in
the low keys. I'm listening to the words and I'm like,
and then you hear it singing. It was like, what
does that even mean? Right? So I was like, nah,
this is not I laughed because I thought it was hilarious.
Usher was like, I'm never singing that. I remember hearing. Uh.

(27:10):
I don't know if it was Mark Pitt's or kp
was on the phone, and I remember hearing La Reid
on the phone saying, I don't give a fuck what
you gotta do. He better sing that fucking song. Hung up,
and I just remember leaving it like I'm thinking of
Usher and I singing, He's not gonna do it. I
left man. I had a girlfriend at the time. She
was She was from West Palm Beach. She and I

(27:30):
were driving to West Palm Beach to meet their family,
and on the way, they said, we're going to premiere
a new Usher. We're gonna be playing every hour on
an hour, a new Usher. We're driving through cities, bro,
non stop. Bro. I said, I don't know nothing about music,
because because when I heard her whole life, because when
I heard Usher sing it, I understood it became different.

(27:55):
I'm like, this is the illest ship in the world.
So what happens is the gift of a and r
artistan repertoire. The understanding of how to hear a hit
is a gift, and some people don't understand how to
hear a hit. It's something I had to learn. Hearing
it hit means I don't care who sings it. Hearing
it hit means it could be a guy just like

(28:17):
the Global Home and you're like, it's something to that.
Let's speed that up, let's put eight away behind it,
Like that's hearing a hit. La Read's ability, KP's ability,
Mark Pitt's ability to hear it hits, Breon Prescott's ability
to hear it hits. These are guys are true A
and R men. I know their ability to hear a

(28:38):
record no matter the condition the mix. You know when
people were like, oh the mix wasn't good, so I
ain't get it. You don't know how to hear a
hit because these guys can hear through everything here at
through you know what I mean? So when they when
he did that record and it came out, that's what changed,
because yeah, it was supposed to be that B side

(29:00):
to Burn to Burn, because Burne was the ticket. Everybody
knew Burn is gonna be that you got it bad
for this project. It's the ballot that took everything.

Speaker 1 (29:08):
Yeah, So because ballots, I egregiously hate ballots and burn
is one of my favorite songs.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
Do you do you like children? Like what what? I
don't know? I don't know what. I don't want to
I don't know. I've been in therapy. You don't like
the ballance. I don't like ballance? Do you know who
you talk like? You know? I know that's why. That's
just crazy. I know, No, I get it. But what
I'm saying is what happened was it brought them so
much time because Yeah, it became such an explosive record

(29:37):
that it bought them time to say, oh, ship, we
don't even have to rush burn, No, oh my god,
we got we got a massive smash. We could roll
this album out. The album was already exceptional, and I
believe that with Burn, Confessions would have probably sold three
to seven million, three to four million albums, right what
Yeah did? It made it a phenomenon. So then when

(29:59):
Confessions came out, and then the whole breakup with Chili,
and then Chili got on the radio and said he
did the unthinkable, and then the whole story about the
baby without Yeah setting everything up. He's a global phenomenon,
a mega superstar war. Yeah, then you got the story
of Confessions, and then you got Burned as the song

(30:21):
it changes everything. So now your first weekend you're doing
one point four, you're breaking records that still haven't been
broken today in R and B music physically to this day.
Physical to this day, you couldn't. You couldn't even So
that's why I have to apologize, as Sean Garrett as
a young seventeen year old, yeah, to say I didn't

(30:45):
hear it, bro, and now I'm wrong, wrong, And that's
why he's one of the greatest ever. Okay, so that's
funny as hell that you didn't like. Yeah, because instantly
coming from a DJ's perspective, no, no, but but again,
I had to learn know how to hear a hit.
I feel you, So you heard it after it was made,

(31:05):
So in fairness, you and I heard the finished product. Yeah,
you may have felt the way I felt. That's fair.
That's fair because when I heard it, when I was
just saying it, I knew it well.

Speaker 1 (31:15):
See Also because instantly, because I'm a I'm a I'm
a tactician, I'm a scientist. I'm like, I'm a real
geek in real life, Like I just do cool shit
right in media, but I'm actually a nerd. Like so
when I look at songs like yeah, to me, it's
just like supposed to be, and I know they're not
the same, like yeah it's number one.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
It's not.

Speaker 1 (31:32):
It's number one record in the country. Yeah, took the
world by storm. But to me, I look at it
like from a formulaic standpoint, right, even the way I
produce music, I look at it very formulated. There's no
emotion attached to it. I'm like a I'm like a MacBook, right.
So when I look at yeah, it's not only sonically
amazing and not sonically a hit record, but on paper
to hit record, right, it's one hundred and five bpm

(31:52):
and has as it has a grade eight away, it
has a great high. And even when I'm even when
I'm producing records and I'm telling people like, oh yeah,
you need muddy drums and high high, it's like you'll
always win. Because this is not scientifically scientifically proven. I
don't have any science to back this up, but I
believe that white people can't hear low frequencies like we can,
so they hear the highs and we hear the lows

(32:14):
differently because of whatever.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
That's just my belief.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
So when you combine those two with amazing melodies and
and dope runs and stuff like that, I think instantly
you have a formula four hit record right, same thing
when I looked at posed to be on paper. It's
a Mustard, Bee's Jane, It's Chris, It's a Marion. Amazing melody.
It is easy to learn after you hear it one time.
You know it, it's familiar, you know, stuff like that,

(32:37):
Like I just look at it. I look at it
very scientific as opposed to like the feeling up part
of it. The second urban leunchend you mentioned was the
Chili thing. Because there's a story attached to Confessions. I
feel like Confessions as an album is always attached to
that story.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
And I know that.

Speaker 1 (32:52):
They've said that that didn't have anything that with us.
It was like no, JD said, we were just being creative,
you know, nothing to do with with their situation and
stuff like that. But it's like I think in the
black community, nobody ever believed that.

Speaker 2 (33:07):
Yeah, but that wasn't the truth. That was a real thing.
That was a real thing, JDS. That was JD's situation.
That was j d's situation. Confessions was JD's real situation
or when he was and then he would he came
up with the lyrics being created because he was what
he just told me this in Vegas a couple maybe
a couple months, six seven months ago, and he said
when he was in La he was just he stepped

(33:29):
out and he was looking at it and he was
walking around and he saw the Beverly Center hand in
hand the Beverly Center. Like man, he was really writing
it as he was there there. But that was his life.
The confession's thing about you know, having a baby, and like, yeah,
that was his life. That was real. That was real.
It's just that Chili made it so incredible because we

(33:49):
were in New York during release week and Chile was
in Atlanta on Ryan Cameron Morning Show and she did
an interview Ryan Cameron and she said, he said, why
did you want usher break up? And she said, because
he did the unthinkable. That was it. He did something
I can't even ladies. It's the worst thing you could
ever do. So but she didn't say what it was.

(34:12):
So when confession comes out, he says that it set
it up, but that what that wasn't that's not what
even you know what I mean. And her unthinkable was
different than what everybody else is unthinkable because I think
if if in fairness and I think if she would
have just said he cheated the women to be like,
oh okay. But the fact that she said the unthinkable

(34:35):
is set it up in a way. And I remember,
because you have to understand, we didn't have social media,
so we somebody had to send us a clip to
a computer. I'm not exaggerated. Somebody had to send us
a clip. And then what happened was somebody took the
SoundBite from the interview, and since we were in New York,
Hot ninety seven was running it. You know, Chilie just
that interview and she said she had this to say

(34:57):
about Usher Boom coming back from commercial rate. And that's
how it went crazy and people were like, oh my god,
Ushould really had a baby on her? How me do that?
How could you do that? While I purchased your album
right right right?

Speaker 1 (35:14):
Okay, Rico Love From a Grammy standpoint, like I.

Speaker 2 (35:21):
Saw your speech.

Speaker 1 (35:22):
So I'm sitting there last night and I saw your
speech right and I'm listening to you speaking. I was like,
I was, I know what the being, I know what
it's about, right, I know what the organization is about.
And I've been a part of different every every year.
I joined the Grammy Board like three years ago, and
I did that because I actually wanted to speak to
you about this too.

Speaker 2 (35:39):
I joined the Grammy.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
Board because I hate these people, and I hate that's
a strong word. I strongly disliked these individuals who are keyboards,
keyboard tough. They're there their Twitter fingers right, and so
every single year, every single year, And I was a
hypocrite at one time, just like everybody else when Maclamore B.
Kendrick for the Grammy, the Kid Mad City and Maclamore

(36:04):
Black Twitter, Black, the whole black community, we all were
an outrage. Right, There's there's outrage for everything. I was
part of that community.

Speaker 2 (36:12):
Like, how what the fuck I could? This don't make sense?

Speaker 1 (36:15):
And nobody has ever taken the initiative to get involved.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
Yes, And my number one.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
Issue with people I speak for my city specifically, this
is Los Angeles' from LA and I speak for us
in my city specifically you can speak for yours is
that everyone has an opinion and no one does shit.
Everybody sits on the internet and complains, but nobody gets involved.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
Universal by the way, Okay, well.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
Like I said, I don't represent I have to speak
for my po So the way I look at it
is I had it I didn't like how radio was.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
You know what I'm saying. I created it.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
We created our own platform because I didn't like how
back in the day, Power one O six was the
only playing fist pump music. We were the ones we
did the first Kendrick interview ever. I did the interview
where he changed his name from Kato to Kendrick. We
did that on our platform, right, So we were the
ones catering to the hip hop community from a.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
West Coast perspective.

Speaker 1 (37:08):
Right, because I'm looking at the wake up show, I'm
looking at Sway and Tech, I'm looking at you know
what everybody else is doing. So that's what my mission was, right.
I didn't like the way radio was going. I went
and got in the radio state. I was at iHeart
for seven years. I worked on Big Boys Show for
three years. I learned under the one of the Ghosts.
Then I got my own show. Right now we're here.
I didn't like how things are in the community. I
went and joined the Boys and Girls Club. I had

(37:31):
outrage about the Grammys passing over black people every year,
or people being snubbed not being nominated. I went and
joined the Grammy Board and became a member of the
Grammy board because I want to understand these systems and
how they work from the inside out right, so that
way I'm not just one of these people complaining on
the internet your involvement. I looked when I was watching
your speech, I say, I have to say, when I

(37:52):
was watching your speech last night, I was like, exactly
when you said this one piece and I want you
to talk about your involvement and where you are with that,
but when you said this one piece is stuck with me,
and that's all, like, man, I got That's why I bugged.
That's why I hit you this morning, like I need
you because when you spoke, when you brought them, when
you had them kids come out, when y'all had those

(38:12):
kids come out, and you like it was after your
speak when those kids came out and you said something
I thought about that you were like everybody in this
room is in this room because we're community to some
to that effect, But when we call on you, when
don't I need you to pick the same phone the
same email. I need you to respond to that email too,

(38:34):
That same phone call needs you respond to that phone
call too, because this is important because we need to
empower these people and we need to pour it into
our community so that way we can shift exact things
and change the narrative.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
But you can speak on that from your pursuit. So basically,
I'm the chair of the BMC, the Black Music Collective.
It's a deifor started by Race Morales, Harvey Mason Junior,
Jerry L. Johnson, Belisia Butterfield. So what we do is
we make sure that we hold the Recording Academy, hold
ourselves accountable, and make sure that black people are getting
the adjusted to fact, they're getting the opportunities that they need.

(39:07):
We're doing outreach, We're making sure that they feel seen,
they feel heard, they feel loved. It should feel like
a home and in Recording Academy for all musicians and
all writers and all artists, but sometimes for people of
color doesn't feel that way. So we're going to do
our part to change that. Now, as a person of
color who's from the culture of the culture, no poser
really put in work, really put in time, well respect,

(39:27):
They got a clean face, never stole from nobody, never
robbed nobody, never did no underhanding. I've never heard anything
negative about you. So what I have to understand is
if I'm a person who is a clean face in
the business, and I'm saying, listen, I know what y'all
heard about the Recording Academy, but this is what we
can do to change it. There's some things about the
Academy that at one point I was ignorant too, and
I got educated as I was partly putting my time in.

(39:50):
Come on in, guys, let's put in this time and
let's do the work. Let's become voting members. Let's make
sure that we make a difference, because you can't be
upset with a person voting for somebody that that they're
more familiar with. So why don't we become the people
that are voting and we can vote to things that
we are familiar with, and that way people that look
like us get an opportunity. Because of the way that

(40:15):
music is so segregated and sometimes in some senses in
some regions and marketing areas, I think that it's changing
a little bit with streaming, which is a whole another
two hour interview that we have to get into it.
But I just think that there are opportunities to make
sure that the things that we feel like deserve the

(40:36):
shot and the credits, get it. It's just about educating
ourselves on how to do so. So with the BMC,
I make sure that I do my part as a
chair to lend my voice, lend my services, lend my
visibility and put in the work. Now, what we ask
for is all year round that we create initiatives to
empower the youth, young black creatives, young women, people of color,

(40:57):
people in a Latin community, making sure that they feel seen,
heard and respected and loved as well. And we do
our work with Africa, you know, we make sure we're
out and we want to do We want to touch Haiti,
we want to touch Jamaica, and we want to touch
you know, the Caribbean. All of it. It's about us
showing them what is available to them and then creating

(41:18):
a bridge for them to get there. Here. It's one
thing to say, here is this water, this is your
I want you, you can have it, and you're like, well,
how I'm gonna reach you? Right? You're like you got
to figure that out? Is yours?

Speaker 1 (41:31):
Wow?

Speaker 2 (41:31):
What we gotta do is we got to say here's
the water, and here's this table, and this is how
and I'm gonna slide it here now it's here. You're
gonna have to do something to get it. Now. It's halfway.
There's halfway there. Now you gotta do the work. And
that's all we want to do is with the BMC,
is make sure that not only are we doing the
work to educate people, but we're creating opportunities for them

(41:54):
to use the education that we've given them and given
them the best opportunities to utilize it.

Speaker 1 (41:58):
I want you to speak on that because I have
a real issue with that. I see a lot of
people complain every every every year, every winter.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
I always but I always ask the same question, and
they say, man, fuck the Grammys, And I'm like, so,
how the Grammys work? I love that saying that what
you mean?

Speaker 1 (42:12):
Mean?

Speaker 2 (42:13):
So? How does it just show me how it works?
So how you're gonna say? You know what I mean?
That's like saying fuck we go love? Alright? Cool? Why yeah?
What did he do? He's still from you will he
read one time on any ofnet that somebody said that
he did All right, Well, what what what did he
say about it? We don't educate ourselves enough generally. Fact.

(42:35):
I just think that we look at situations and we
form opinions based upon our own biases and based upon
how we feel in life. And what I mean by
that is this, if I don't feel seen, if I
don't feel hurt, if I don't feel respected, if I
feel like I'm raging against the machine, if I feel
like there's powers that be that is keeping me down,
then every system that I can look at and I
can point to, and if all it takes is it's

(42:56):
one person to say the Grammys did this to me.
I don't need to educate myself on it. I'm mad
already because somebody else did that to me, So fuck
the Grammys. It's just like if somebody get on TV
right now and say my baby daddy did this, and
if somebody going through they baby daddy was like, oh
he did it. You don't even know. You don't know
what's going on. But that's what we do as a community.

(43:17):
We get angry at a system because there is another
system that feels that we feel as oppressing us. And
by the way, we should be angry at certain systems.
We should even be angry at the way the Grammys
used to work and function, but we also should be
angry enough to go and make a change and make
a difference and do ourselves on how it works. Go
do something, do something about it, and that's the key man.

(43:39):
Or if you said, well I don't feel like doing
somebody when you should feel like complaining about it.

Speaker 1 (43:43):
Facts, if you got the energy to complain, you got
the energy go do something.

Speaker 2 (43:46):
And if you if you feel like, well I don't
give a fuck that much to the then you shouldn't
give a fuck that much to talk about it. Thank you. Bro.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
Oh my god, I deal with that so much about
when it comes from radio.

Speaker 2 (43:57):
Fuck radio.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
I'm like, well, how does it work? What you okay,
tell me how my job was exactly? Well, okay, well
I left radio, so now well it's still like you
don't even have articulations.

Speaker 2 (44:08):
Or they say they play the same songs all right,
why because these are the songs that research and the best,
these songs that people want to hear it. And just
because you listen to the radio all day you sit
in the house, or it's it. There's some people that
when they hear that song, you this song you heard
fifty times today, they've heard once because they get in
the car to hear, oh this is my song. They

(44:28):
want to hear that song if they don't hear that song,
so they're gonna do They're gonna change the station if
they don't hear their rotation of songs they want to hear,
which means the radio station is not making money. So
there's the top twenty songs that they have to be played.
The radio station have to play these songs at this
time or else. When we've seen research shows us that
people are changing the station to our competitor who are

(44:50):
playing these songs, we have to go. It's a whole business,
and we don't have time to educate ourselves. But we
got all the time in the world to tell you
why it's blend up. Yeah, research TSL, that's time spent listening. Okay,
average TSL is under ten minutes. So if you want
to do your due, digis on radio. All right, what's
the first song you ever heard with auto tune on it?

(45:12):
There's a song. The first song I ever heard was
Goodbye by Jagged Edge. Well, no auto tune or something
like auto tune correction. I think zap Rodgers computer love.
What else is I guess that would be considered. I
mean that was the first time I heard anything. I

(45:33):
mean talkbox, talk boxes, technically, Yeah, talkbox is just the
harder way of doing auto because he took it. Took
absolute skills to put the talk box days, you know,
and then play exactly what he was singing. No, that
was difficult, but that first time I ever heard something
like that. So when I heard a song called Goodbye

(45:55):
by Jagged Edge, they had put it on at the
end of the song, and I think I think they
did it because he it was a great take, but
if the note was wrong, so he added the auto
little pitch correction. So if you listen to Goodbye by
Jacket Edge, no, no, no, no, it's an incredible song,
but that was my first time hearing it. And then

(46:16):
after that it was tea Paint Sprung. Oh yeah, shout
of t paints.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
Okay, So from your from your perspective, because like you said, well,
not that you said. This is my accusation on Rico Love, right,
is that you're somewhat of a purist, which is why
when you heard yeah you rejected it. Right, It's because
you were listening to the lyrics from a sonics. Also,
also like I couldn't hear a hit at that time. Okay,
you were trained in the Jedi way of is that

(46:44):
does that also apply to sonics?

Speaker 2 (46:46):
Right?

Speaker 1 (46:47):
Because the auto tune thing has been ongoing debate in
music in general. It seems like only black music, though
I don't never see white people arguing about all the
time effort.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
Yeah, but but the privilege, Let's make sure we understand
whenever we talk about what white people doing what black
people do, understand the comfort and the privilege to be
white means that I'm open to be wrong. I'm open
to have this thing go. I'm open to because the
freedom of failure they have, the freedom of failure, we

(47:18):
don't have it. So we beef about the most trivial thing,
like the most ridiculous things, because yeah, we don't have
We don't feel comfort in our own skin. So whenever
we talk about what black people do when white people do,
we always have to keep in mind and be sensitive
to ourselves as black people to know that they can

(47:39):
afford to not be upset about some things. You know
what I mean, It's a comfort because it's gonna be
okay regardless, be okay, okay, okay. So do you feel
like from a sonic standpoint, that R and B helped
or hurt R? I mean auto tune. Do you feel
like autotune helped or hurt? R and B. Auto tune
is a tool, and some tools are gonna be overused.

(48:02):
And at the end of the day, the biggest songs
and the biggest selling songs, and the biggest selling artists
and the most successful artists in the world still are
very talented people. Facts. He can say what we want
about fly by Night, one hit wonders or artists that
we think, But it's no way you're gonna tell me

(48:23):
that Travis Scott is not one of the most talented artists, producers, writers.
You can't say because he used auto to No, you're
not gonna tell me that there's not something special about
UZI Vert. You might not like his songs. I'm not
a huge fan of every record I've heard of it's
but you're not gonna tell me that there's not something
special and appeeling that the massive c and this kid

(48:43):
you can't do it. You're not gonna tell me that
Don Tolliver is not masterful in a way to keep
places and arranges his vocal and the lyrics and decisions
he makes as a writer. You're not gonna tell me
that Brent Faiaz is not come on. The list can
go on and on and on and on, and that's
just me talking about the artist that's not even with
the exception of Travis Scott and Uzzi, the artists that

(49:04):
aren't even mainstreams ultra successful. Now, let's think about this.
The artists that get us frustrated are the ones because
it's so many of them, but it's not much room
at the top, baby, and there are only a few
that are at the absolute top. When you talk about
the biggest tours, you're talking about Drake in twenty one,
you're talking about Taylor Swift, you're talking about Beyonce. That's

(49:28):
the biggest, the biggest Kendrick want this year. And when
Kendrick want to come back, it's going to be another way.
It's gonna be another wave of that. So what we
have to understand is that we get so upset because
it's so much noise down here. But up here we
look at the most successful acts. Usher was able to

(49:48):
go to Vegas, reinvent themselves, sell out one hundred shows,
three year run, non stop, killing it because he's absolutely talented. Facts,
we get upset because so much noise, like music is
dying and is no the people who are absolutely Adele
absolutely talented, Mary J. Blige, absolutely talented. We honor Mariah

(50:12):
Carey and Lenny Kravitz last night. Absolutely talented.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
I didn't realize she had that. I mean I knew,
but you don't know until you look at it. No,
she has so many the accolades and like like the most,
the most, the longest running.

Speaker 2 (50:26):
Everything she's ever sang, she wrote or co wrote everything, everything,
every word, every song from Mariah Carey that was successful,
she either wrote it or she co wrote it with
somebody else, not not co wrote it by taking credit
for things that she didn't do, because a lot of
artists do. That is really I'm talking about. She actually
is a writer, a legit writer. She actually comes into

(50:48):
sessions prepared and will sing you the melody in the
concept and will construct the song. She actually wrote her
first album in its entirety is not a game with her.
She is one of the best songwriters ever. It's just
because she he's such a big star, people try to
discredit that. The same with Usher. Remember Usher first came out.
He was such an amazing dancer and his sex symbol
that people will try to disrespect him as a singer.

(51:08):
He's one of the greatest singers ever. It's just that
he does other things exceptionally well that people so well
that people try to disregard how great he is as
a singer. The same with Mariah. I think because she's
such an iconic superstar, people don't want to give her
credit for that pen but that pen is. I didn't
realize that she wrote that. She wrote a call, wrote
everything everything that's insane. She is insane.

Speaker 1 (51:31):
That is insane to Mariah Carey bro because and she
looked so beautiful last night, and she did she did.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
I ain't finishing. I was bugging out. I'm like you
saw me.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
Yo, when like yo, you was like yo, I saw
you turn into a nigga real he was like almost.
I was like, oh shit, oh, I want to talk
to you about groups, right, So I came up. My
mom is a huge, huge music head. Boys to Men, Jodicy,
Drew Hill, the whole nine, and then later on, actually

(52:08):
I forgot Sean from Boys to Men shout out to
Sean Stockman. I remember talking to Sean one day and
this is during court COVID everybody's in the house, so
I remember talking to Sean Stockman, and he was saying
that literally, I don't know who it was, I don't
want to misquote him, and putting on nobody enter the bus.
But I remember him literally saying that there were people

(52:30):
in the music business that conspired to invent the boys
to Men formula for the Caucasian absolutely right. And so
they took the Boys to Men, the Joe Toicy, the
Drew Hill formula and then put it in sync and
Backstreet Boys and and off, I mean not off of
one the other.

Speaker 2 (52:47):
What I forgot below something nick nick Nick.

Speaker 1 (52:52):
So they basically ninety degrees Backtorye Boys, ninety degrees in sync.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
They basically Greek re craft.

Speaker 1 (53:00):
Old Town was the first Old town after Boys to Men,
Joe to c Drew Hill. Do you do you did
you have that experience or knowledge in that that yeah, okay, yeah,
so that's true.

Speaker 2 (53:11):
It wasn't that. It was the same as I wasn't effort.
It wasn't a consorted have to get rid of boys. Man.
I think it was just an effort to say, oh shit,
we're gonna steal it, like all right, we're white and
we're just gonna take things like an appropriation like Elvis,
like you know, like h J. L. Lewis like the
same thing, like everybody, we're just gonna take it. We

(53:34):
like it, We're gonna take it. So that that was
a real thing as far as like they took the
it's the same as uh, New Audition comes out and
they're like, oh, ship, all right, new Kids on the Block,
and that's the label doing that or that's by the way,
the guys who discovered New Audition when it made New
Kids on the Block. It's just like, oh, it's bigger

(53:55):
if it's white. Imagine how big we are. How still
we got to struggle to get all this. So if
they're white, you know, we cut through all that. Wow,
my white is Wow. So it's just demographics less threatening.
I feel that, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (54:10):
Beyonce, I remember you telling the story about when Beyond
your mother was in town.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
I watched this, right, I watched this.

Speaker 1 (54:20):
You tell this story and your mother was in town
and Beyonce wants you to go to the studio and
you're like, we know, my mom's in town, all kind
of want to go take her to dinner, And Beyonce
pauses and she's like yes, So I booked the studio.
Is that like, is that one of those things where
you don't say no or you can't no.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
That was the thing where she was telling me, wake up,
this is your shot. You're about to blow it. Don't
blow it. That wasn't her being rude or anything. That's
her saying, we are in business and it's time to
do business. Gotcha. And from that point forward in my career,
I missed funerals. I missed thanks Thanksgiving and family unions
and Christmases and all types of things. I remember. I
was in London working on my first Father's Day, my

(55:00):
first Father's Day with my son, before my son was
one years old. I have to go to London work
with Rihanna. I got out there, Rihanna daven show up. Yeah, no,
shade to Rihanna. I don't know. I went to London
to work. We were writing songs, waiting to come. She
never came. It's my first Father's Day. I would do
it again today. You know what, He was a baby.

(55:20):
He don't know my Father's Day. So what I have
to understand is what that taught me wasn't like, oh,
Beyonce didn't get no. It was her saying, bro, this
is the game we end. Either you want to be great,
you want or you want to be the greatest, and
I want to be the greatest. So when you want
to be the greatest, you're gonna Yeah, Mom, I'm sorry,

(55:40):
I know you just flew out here. I had my
mom up at the Mandal Oriento in Miami. She would
have been fine, but by the way, Beyonce booked me
the studio at the Satai. So I go to work
at the Satire. My mom gets there, she's like, this
is We ordered food and dinner at the at the
Satire and Beyonce paid for that. So my mom is like, oh,
like we It was an opportunity for me to realize

(56:03):
what do you really want? Ask myself the question, what
do you really want? How bad do you want? How
bad do you want it? And from that point forward,
my career change because I was missing everything that people
thought I had to be at cousins graduations. I've probably
been to in my life, two or three graduations my
whole life too, because guess what, that's time. I gotta

(56:24):
work that time. Mean, y'all gotta get it. And a
lot of people in my family was uncomfortable with it,
but when they need that little extra what's her name,
they know who to call working with? What is that like?

Speaker 1 (56:37):
Working with Beyonce? Is that is? Is it very mysterious?

Speaker 2 (56:41):
No, she's incredible, But more than anything, she's the nicest
person I've ever worked with. She's polite, she's on time,
she respectful. If she's late, she apologizes. She apologized to you,
yeah for being late. Wow, She's a human being. And no,
I'm not saying it like she's kind, you know what
I'm saying. I'm saying it to say she's a kind individual.
And a lot of times that concept of I can
be nice and I could be successful is insane to

(57:03):
these small level of successful artists who walk in the
studio and don't even know how to say hello and
greet people and want to be kind and courteous. And
you know, the biggest artists I've ever experienced in my
life are the nicest, the ones who was just in
the middle. They were the ones that always had a
hard time stuff like that. What's the creative process like
while working with Beyonce? Is that something like do you

(57:25):
come to her with stuff that you already came up with? Concepts,
melodies or is it collaborative. I guess it's a person
my person basis with her. She works very closely with
certain groups of people, and I think they spend the
time creating together, collaborating together, and she's very involved in
sonics and everything. She's very my situation. I wrote the
actual songs that she and I did together. But she's

(57:48):
such a force, and she has opinion and she has
ideas and she wants to She's just masterful the way
she sees herself and sees her artistry.

Speaker 1 (57:58):
I want to get into some of your songs too.
But also the other thing is, since I'm talking about
the Beyonce thing, do you what about groups going solo?

Speaker 2 (58:07):
Right? Do you feel like that's something that artists should
I think it's amazing. That's what groups are supposed to be.
And then eventually I would hope they would come back
and do some stuff together. I still got my still
my heart is still believing that Destiny shall gonna come
back and do something together. I think everybody wants that.

Speaker 1 (58:22):
Yeah, that would be amazing, And I thought I honestly
thought we were going to get that on the Renaissance,
Like I thought we were going to get that the
the reunion type.

Speaker 2 (58:32):
I love that. I would love a tour, I would
love all those things, you know, but who knows. I
think that the idea of groups and having a super
some groups don't have superstars, right, but some do. You know,
Steve Perry of Journey was a superstar, so what you
expect him to not have to put out a solo record?
That being sanane. You know Peter Gabriel when he was

(58:53):
in Genesis, he put out US, he left him, did
a solo album. And then when Phil Collins became the
lead in Genesis, what did he do? Became a superstar
and then guess what he left and did solo projects.
It's a natural progression, natural order of things when you
have superstars in your group. Lino Richie was in the
Commodore's okay cool Now, when Lino Richie left the Commodos,

(59:14):
there wasn't a superstar. So yeah, so they could they
could know the comedoists can still work and tour, but
nobody else could go and do a solo album after
out of that because he was the superstar.

Speaker 1 (59:26):
Yeah, I Hate Daddy is one of them songs like that.
I felt like I feel you know how men like
a lot of your songs are really good, really good records,
but men that aren't secure can't sing them. You know
what I'm saying, Like you Gady, but like I'm secure

(59:49):
and I feel like that was one of the records
where I'm like, this ship, this ship is fire.

Speaker 2 (59:53):
Bro, Like you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (59:56):
When you, when you when you come up with a
song like like that, or you produced it, wrote co
produced it right yere with other runners, shout out to
the runners when you when you do a song like
like hey, Daddy, is that like okay, this is the single?
Or is it work out that way just because it's
a good, great record.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
When I wrote it, I knew it should have been
the single, and I don't make the decisions right. But
what happened was I wrote, I wrote that Daddy's Home
and then then they put out there goes my Baby
and Daddy's Home at the same time. Top of the year.
So during the Christmas break, I remember my man, dj Oh,
you had a good year. Yeah yeah, yeah, it was
a great year. Bunch of hits that year. But I
remember dj Oh caught me and was like, yoh, we

(01:00:34):
just got this new record and say, turn the lights
on this. You are like, what is it? Like, it's
the Usher records, go Daddy's Home. We're about to start
running the top of the year. Yeah, he said, oh shit,
we just got another one's called Diggs my Baby. I
didn't even know. I said, oh Ship, what they doing?
He dropping two, dropping two records? And there was my
there was my baby and Daddy's Home was going back
and forth number one spot. You know what I mean,
just swapping had a great year, had a great run, man,

(01:00:56):
great time. And with that, with that project, we had
that project that Raymond versus at a great great run. Usher,
give me a worthy opponent in the verses, Oh man, Usher,
Beyonce is the verses that I would want to see.
Give me a realistic like Beyonce is not gonna do
the verses Usher not either, Okay, Like, let's stop, let's

(01:01:18):
stop acting like.

Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
Oh no, no, I'm not one of them people, okay, because
you know I'm not one of them guys that nigga.

Speaker 2 (01:01:22):
No no, no, I'm not one of those guys. I'm fully
on the ushers. Okay, Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
It's always a common thread, like you know, because when
we talk about Beyonce wouldn't do it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
It's like, yeah, well then just the same with Usher. No, no, no, no,
I'm not one of those guys at all. By the way,
Beyonce loves Usher.

Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
I'm not one of those guys at all. I'm one
hundred percent on the Usher train, right, I'm also on
the Brown train. But it's just that, you know, people
want to see that. I don't know if it's if
you're get Vegas Residency or and by the way, but
if you ask me what would be the perfect the perfect?
To me, I think that Beyonce and Usher is the best,
the one. By the way, I do want to say

(01:02:00):
this on record. I went to the Usher Residency. Yeah,
one of the best concerts I've ever been to in
my entire life ever.

Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
And I do rape. I do music for a living, right,
It's easily flawless. Flawless, okay, flawless. And by the way,
he has a whole club that comes out of the sky.
I'm aware, like I'm aware.

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
Last thing we could wrap up music when it comes
to lyrics, right, you started off rapping?

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
Yeah? Why is that?

Speaker 1 (01:02:29):
Why is it that rappers don't get the same grace
when it comes to collaborate, collaborating songwriting as R and
B artists.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
Because of the ignorance. Yeah, the ignorance of not knowing
how the first songs were crafted. Easy Eating write one
rap probably in his life right, and he's one of
the greatest voices in the history of hip hop. So
are you going to be upset with the fact that

(01:02:58):
Keenan Ivory wings, Robert Townsend, we're writing with Adie Murphy
that if you knew that, you'd be like, what right? Yeah?
Or even Chris Spencer writes a lot of stuff, or
the fact that Paul Mooney was writing for Richard pryor
you know what I mean? So does that Dave Chapelle

(01:03:19):
and you know it, Does it mean that these people
are not talented? No, what it means is that his
delivery is insane. So what it means for ice Cube
writing raps and Rin writing raps for Doctor Dre is
that Dre voice is dope. It's still Dre. He's still dreda,
you know what I mean? Or Jay Z writing still
the rig exactly. So the point is there is an

(01:03:43):
ignorance in which how MC's being this battle thing and
it's I'm coming up on my rhymes and his musical
lyrical purist thing that people don't accept the fact that
if I'm in a room and you're by right now,
you think that if jay Z is in a room
right now with me and he says a line, I say,
by bah he said, And I say, yo, what about
if you say bah b ba and he'say, oh shit,

(01:04:03):
You think he's not gonna say that line? You're crazy
and he's the greatest. You think he's gonna be like, no,
I didn't write it, so I'm not gonna say he's
gonna be like, that's a dope line. I'm gonna say that,
And there's nothing wrong with that. And I think that,
by the way, when you become so big, it's the
only time that people care anyway. When you become such
a big star, that's the only time that people give

(01:04:24):
a fuck anyway. So it's really not that people have
a problem where artists goes right, and it said people
don't have They got to find something to have a
problem with. Just that's what everybody wants to be angry.
And I just always say this, man, my kid could
come to me and say that they were anything in
the world. My kid can come to me and say,
you know, I'm gay. My kid can come to me
and say I'm transgender. My kid can come to me

(01:04:46):
and say, you know whatever, I love him forever, unless
they said that they were a troll on Instagram. Because
these are the worst kind of people. These people sit
up and just go under people's crazy about everybody, and
then they say the worst case scenario everything. Somebody could

(01:05:06):
get on television and say I'm sorry that thing I
said about such and such wasn't true. I was wrong
and I was being hateful and spiteful and the conversation
and be like, I don't believe it. No, they paid
you to do it. It's just that there's a certain
group of people who hate themselves so much, or they
see themselves in every victim that there is, and they

(01:05:27):
want to create that, and they rage against the machine
so much, and they can't handle success, and they can't
handle looking at success because they don't see success inside themselves.
Those type of people are the reasons why anybody could
feel uncomfortable about co writing and collaborating, because they got
to worry about this individual who have never who's never
seen the world, who's never gotten them off their couch,

(01:05:48):
who's never tried anything, who's never been comfortable with failure,
who's never failed and got back up, who's never challenged
themselves to be outside of the norm, outside of the community,
outside of the city. Those people are the ones who
make artists uncomfortable with acknowledging the fact that they collaborate
mail hip hop space.

Speaker 1 (01:06:05):
Listen, bro I got to get your thought before we
go on Royalty. The streaming thing is a whole nother
conversation that would be ours, But the thing is going
on with TikTok and UMG is prevalent. But then also
from you make money from the business of music, like
you literally have made a fortune doing the business of music. Right,

(01:06:28):
What are your thoughts, just briefly on the streaming era
and how are you directly affected by the way things
are done now versus how.

Speaker 2 (01:06:36):
They used to be a streaming Streaming definitely changed the
way that writers the shares that we get, especially on
the publishing side. It's not the same money, but some
things being put in place. We just passed the music
modernization at a few years ago to make it easier
for us to kind of raise how much we're getting
in as songwriters. When it comes to that, I just

(01:06:57):
think that there's been it has to be a big change,
and there's a lot of money being made. It's not
being distributed, in my opinion, fairly and properly, and I
want to make sure that I do my best to
educate myself on why that is and educate myself on
how to change that. I'm not gonna get in here
and say fuck the labels, because that's ignorant. What I
can say is that I don't know exactly how everything

(01:07:17):
is functioning, and that is a problem because there's nobody
who can give me a clear answer answers. So what
I would like to do is try my best to
figure out the Rubi's cube of it all, and then
I can start saying, this is why this isn't working
and we need to change it. But I do know
is there's a ton of money being made. There's a
ton of money being distributed, and it's not coming in
a way towards the direction of the writers and the

(01:07:38):
producers as it should be. And I want to do
more work to understand why, and that's the best way
to look at it. But you can't go in these
situations and saying fuck these labels and they do all
this and expect for them to have their doors open
and say, oh week go we heard you said, fuck us,
come on, talk to some how you feel this wayn
So you got to be mature about and understand like

(01:07:58):
there's something going on and we gotta how to change it.
The King of R and B does that exist? Say less.

Speaker 1 (01:08:06):
I'm with you, man, Thank you. I've been trying to
get you in here forever. I got more stuff. We
could talk forever, but I know you got to go.
But I just appreciate you one for your contribution to
the culture too, because you actually do things, You actually
move on action and it's not just lip service and
thumbs and you know, all of that Internet stuff. And

(01:08:27):
then also I also appreciate you because I've never really
heard your name and no mess you know what I'm saying,
as far as oh Rico don't pay on time, or
Rico hasn't sent this in or like, I've never heard that,
and I know we know a lot of the same people,
and I just feel like that's important too. I remember
my brother Charlemagne told me, he said, protect your your

(01:08:48):
reputation with your life, because it is your life.

Speaker 2 (01:08:50):
When it comes to you. That's why you know there
are a few people that had discrepancies with me, and
you would see the consistencies in their character. So that
doesn't bother me. So there's always going to be a
group of people to have something to say and going
to tell us a different story. But you'll see the
consistencies in each of those people's characters or inconsistent or
you'll see but even the way they match each other. Right.

(01:09:12):
But one thing I always say is if you don't
if you don't have a relationship enough to ask me
a question personally, then you shouldn't be comfortable enough to
have an opinion about it. Right. And you've never heard
me get on the internet ever respond about anything that
was said negatively about me, Because the truth is I
got to be a leader, and I got to be

(01:09:33):
a representative for my children, and I got to make
sure that no matter what, they got to look at
Dad and say, Dad always handle things in a way
that was admirable, that was respectful, and that was honorable,
even in the face of ridicule, even in the face
of kind of like people telling one side of stories.
This business is funny like that, So and life is
funny like that. So at the end of the day,

(01:09:55):
I can't say that I haven't ever been accused of
being a certain thing. But I do know that I know,
yeah and equivocally, who I am and what I represent,
what I stand for, and the majority and the bulk
of people who have dealt with me can be attested that.
And even the ones who say the bad things when
they are in their own loane time, they know the truth.

(01:10:16):
They know what I am, and know who I am
and what I do. No. I appreciate you, bro for real.
Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:10:21):
Thank you for being here, thank you for being a pillar,
you for show a legend. I appreciate that, and you know, hopefully,
hopefully we can fix this. We'll have another conversation when
you come back to LA about the streaming thing and
all of that stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:10:36):
Because I have a whole ship. We should have a
whole panelsation with BMC and discuss that man and have
young artists and producers and writers, successful producers and artists
and writers, and just get us all on the panel.
I would like to moderate invice and we can invite
the streaming CEOs if they'll come, then we can invite
to be from title, from from from Sony and from Universal.

(01:10:58):
We can invite the people from uh, Spotify, begin to bite,
Apple Music, Amazon Music, and let's sit down and have
a conversation, and we would extend on all the French.
We just want to hear them out here and they
want them to hear us. That'd be amazing, amazing conversation. Yeah.
I don't know how if that's in the car, but
I'm with it. I'm with you. We can try to
make that happen. Let's make it happen, all right.

Speaker 1 (01:11:19):
It's DJ head, Rico Love, it's homegrown. Catch you next time.

Speaker 2 (01:11:24):
Turn the lights on.