May 30, 2018 • 38 mins
The next great idea is sitting in your office's cubes (or row of open floor desks). Bold creativity, cultural insight and new ways of working are sitting within our organizations amongst junior level talent that isn't given a voice or platform in our decision-making meetings. Rarely are they tapped or encouraged to bring their side passions and hustles into the boardroom which is why some are choosing to exit the industry in pursuit of this passion-meets-purpose utopia. Alexa and Laura sit down with two young guns, Michael Tonge and Cody Levine, who decided to leave ad agency life and turn their side hustle into real businesses. Listen to their advice for our industry's senior leadership, how they naturally bring their interests and passions into their jobs (authenticity!) and jot down some solid one-liners we'll all be repeating in our next meeting. Don't miss their #KILLBUYDIY.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm off my game today, You're not. People are going
to have to start making better content. I think we're
gonna be talking about this for a long time. When
you program for everyone, you program for no one. I
think it's that we're purpose driven platform, like we're trying
to get to substance. How was that? Are you happy
with that? This is marketing therapy right now? It really is?
(00:27):
What's up? I'm Laura Currency and I'm Alexa Kristen. Welcome
back to at Landia. The only thing separating me from
the Jersey Shore right now, and it's the only thing
I would have came to Brooklyn for UM. We have
Cody Levine and Mike Tongue coming into the studio to
ex agency young guns who have broken out to turn
their passion and to purpose their side hustle into the
(00:47):
main hustle. And I think we have a thing or
two that they can really teach the agency about where
we're missing the mark on creativity agency brands. I think leadership. Seriously,
these guys have a anything one liners. So with that,
we'll be right back. Welcome back, everybody. We're here with
(01:17):
Cody Levine, Hi, co founder of toothpaste brand twice and
the total Brooklyn artiste Mike Tongue is in the building.
Mike Tongue is a marketing manager over at the Brooklyn
Museum and also the founder of the Culture LP. Hello. Hello,
both of you ex agency people that Alex and I
(01:38):
have had the fortunate opportunity to have worked with in
some capacity in our careers and as young guns. If
I may say this under the age of thirty, how
old are you? Just call it out? Yeah, And something
happened for the both of you where you decided in
the not too distant past that you were going to
(01:59):
take your path actions and turn them into your everyday work. Tom,
talk about what that was like for you, kind of
stepping away from the traditional agency world where you had
been somebody who's hot in the art scene out in Brooklyn,
and talk about your kind of diversion back into that
via the Brooklyn Museum. Yeah. I mean it's been I
guess it's been gradual the whole time. The two worlds
(02:21):
have been colliding. They collide in the work to right,
you see it in the agency space, like let's do
this art activation, let's do this sort of street art
um kind of integration or whatever. It may have you,
but for me, I had never stopped doing the cultural work.
It was always a five to nine thing. But it
just got to the point where five to nine am
the next day just to clarify. But it just got
(02:42):
to the point where it just made too much sense.
And on a personal tip, you know, my father was
an artist, and it just was like, this is when
I have to go full go and and really lean
in on you know, the culture right. And it's something
that I think institutions like the Brookn Museum and other
cultural institutions need, right. They their new fundering stores and
things of that nature. Are these tech companies and these
media platforms and everybody wants to show up cross screen
(03:05):
and things of that nature, but they can't do it
without actually understand how these companies work. So it was
kind of a perfect fit for me. They brought their
agency services in the house, so it was just you know, yeah,
it was so funny because I was talking to a
group of cmos and I said, do you are you
actually looking at your teams instead of when we've talked
about this on the show, like you're looking at your
teams instead of resources. Actually his talent and I used
(03:25):
you as an example. I was like, because if I
need someone to think with me, really think with me,
and think about how people are going to show up,
how they're going to interact and not showing up as
a brand that's tone deaf. You need people like Tong
and Cody. Yeah, and coincidentally, both of you have been
inspired by your dad, so do. Your father is a
(03:47):
well known dentist in New York City, and he inspired
you and your brother to walk away from UM your
nine to five's and chase down the opportunity to build
your own DTC brand. Can you talk about twice? Yeah? Absolutely? UM,
for me, it was interesting. I always knew I wanted
to start my own brand, but I didn't know what
exactly would be. And through some work we have been
(04:09):
doing as a family, dad being a dentist, mom and
dad building brands together in the space of oral care,
they started a nonprofit which was really set up to
provide full service dentistry to underserved communities. And Um, what
happened was I go down with my brother and a
group of dentists. We team up with a patient of
my dad' who's Lenny Kravitz, and we end up we
(04:29):
end up in the beautiful mouth. He's got a great,
beautiful mouth. Yeah, smiles important for him. And we go
down there where he spends, you know, most of the
year recording his music and he calls at home, and
we set up a full service shop, and um we
treated everyone from cleanings and whitenings to full extractions and reconstruction.
And I think, right then and there, in that moment,
(04:51):
my brother and I we saw what the power of
a smile was. And it opened my eyes and it
gave me purpose to what I ultimately want to do,
which is start a brand, but one that has purpose
behind it and and meaning and true depth and could
get back. So we, you know, after formulating over a year,
two years, we go back down to Luther and we
(05:13):
we decide to each other. We say, let's do something
about this. We pink got to do more. We I
don't think I can go back to my day job.
I can't go back to the desk. I UM, let's
go build. So we looked at the oral care space
and and we ultimately ended up with Twice, which I
could tell you a lot more about, but um, it's
a direct consumer brand in oral care. We're starting with toothpaste.
(05:33):
We want to make the products that you use every
single day, twice a day to be um as beautiful
as a smile is. So you know, it's something that
I took the jump on back in September, uh to
leave my job and say, you know, this is what
I'm going to do. And I talked to a ton
of friends that are entrepreneurs and they said, you know, well,
before I did it, I had milestones I wanted to hit,
UM things I wanted to accomplish. For me, it was UM.
(05:56):
I was still you know, I was working and and
proud of work I was doing, but ultimately knew if
I really wanted to do this, I had to dedicate
everything UM. And it was a it was an incredible
moment in time when I did that. UM is scary
in a yeah, it was scary, but the adrenaline was
just beyond I actually, yeah, I quit on a Wednesday.
(06:19):
On Wednesday night, I actually was on a flight to
go pitch the brand to a potential partner and and
a co founder of ours. So um, the rush was
everything nervous, Sure, every day you're you're nervous, energy you
turned into excitement. I think there's a whole thing going
on in the marketplace, which I know both of you
know well having worked with you, that your generation, our generation,
(06:41):
the millennial generation, is one that is compelled to associate
or align themselves with brands that identify with purpose. I
would say, respectively, both of the places you work for
with our building, UM resonate with that. Can you talk about,
both as consumers and as entrepreneurs in your own right,
what purpose means to you and how you see the
(07:04):
intersection of those things, translating from how you think about
brands versus how you're creating them. Yeah, I think. I've
always thought that people don't buy what you do, they
buy why you do it, and behind every product, you
need to help consumers understand, you know, how you relate
to them on a personal level. And UM, I think today,
(07:26):
more than ever, consumers are I don't want to say
they're skeptical, but you know me and my friends, they
need to know more, they need to see more the
world of transparency. UM. A brand like r X bar
are completely shaking it up by saying like there's two
eggs in almond and a dayton Yeah, no bs, And
I think UM, in the world of brands that have
social at the core or or are driven by purpose,
(07:48):
they that's part of their DNA and it's no longer
just like attack on UM and you have to prove
that day in and day out, and people have to
really feel it. Yeah. I mean for me, it's interesting
because the the idea of culture is like super lucid, right,
like it's everything that we do UM. So I ended
up building a business model kind of around just in
my lifestyle. I would like to go to art shows.
(08:09):
I like supporting my friends they needed help with mail,
chip and social media and ship like that, and it
just ended up turning into a service offering, which is like,
looking back at it, now I can't go to an
art show and not think about work. So it's kind
of something I was talking about last night, is like
this blurred line between the two. But the idea of
UM purpose is just something that's been at the core
of on both sides. Right. The museum is a place
(08:30):
that you know, it likes to think about the community
and put the community first, whether it's through for free
events are just bringing in different speakers to talk about things,
whether it's the election, whether it's you know, UM, immigration rights,
things of that nature. UM. So to be able to
work at us space like that is super refreshing and rewarding. Um.
And then for me purposefully, I like to stay in Brooklyn.
(08:50):
I like Brooklyn. We didn't get into culture lp We
didn't get into the side hustle main hustle. Yeah. So
um So the culture lp um started as a blog
about maybe six years ago. I was still in school.
I really had some friends, like kind of similar to
what we're talking about this age of transparency, but I
feel like Twitter was a place where people were just
talking a lot of ship, having fun, getting attention for
being funny, not really like anything of substance at that point. Um.
(09:12):
I feel like I was one of them, and I
was like, well, I have some friends doing some really
creative things. I want to highlight them. I grabbed SLR
from you know, the Bucknell Library, and I videotaped a
couple of my friends who had done some poetry on
you know, microaggressions and things that we were going through
at Bucknell University, just being really white space in the
middle of Pennsylvania where all kids from different cities Boston,
d C, New York, UM, and I kind of just
(09:33):
left them freestyle and you know, did a spoken word video,
put it on Vimeo. I was like, this is cool,
made some T shirts. I was like, this is cool.
You know. I just kept going with that, you know,
fast forward. UM. I now worked closely with a few
visual artists who have done you know, street murals for
a city bike in South Africa. Patrick ey Jean just
did a live art installation up in Massachusetts at the
Met Museum. Um. These are all folks. You know. Ronald
(09:54):
Draper just got the awarded uh Urban Public League, you know,
a c P. He's the curator at Harlem Hospital. And
these are guys that like we rented his first studio
in Harlem for eight hundred bucks to do a show,
and we had like seventy r s v p s.
And now we put out a show. We had like
fives in the first four days, had a closing link,
you know. And it's like, but by just believing in
these creators and being a partner to them, someone who
(10:16):
understands like marketing frameworks and how brands think we're able
to you know, secure sponsorship with Essential Water or you know,
any other partners that we've worked with. Pad did a
commission for Nike like things of that nature. Um. But
the two worlds are just so parallel from the museum
is dying to play in that space. So it's really interesting. Well,
I want to talk about that, but I want to
first say the other day we were having lunch and
you said to me, and it was so simple. You
(10:38):
were like, you know that friend that you had, or
maybe you were this person that you would call and say,
what's going on this weekend? I haven't talked about that, right.
So the other thing, because you have like a million things, um,
is this new service that you put together. And I
thought it was so smart because everyone has that friend
or you're that friend, which sometimes becomes a burden. Are
(10:59):
that friend? Um? Yeah, I feel like there was a
there was a tipping point where somebody had text me.
I asked me, I have some my families in town.
What's going on? Is there an art show I should
take them to? Is there a museum opening? This before
I started working museum, probably before I started working, uh
in any agency role. And I was like, I can't
keep doing this every weekend, every day, somebody's asking me
this question. And Ryan Leslie has a service called super
(11:20):
Phone that's really made for musicians to like directly connect
with their consumers. You know, off of social media you
can track shopify integrations and who's spending the most money,
what zip codes are supporting you. So we were using
that right now, just texting people on like twice to
three times a week telling them art, food, music related
events that are happening locally in New York. Um, it's
(11:40):
great for us because for the past five years we've
been building these cultural experiences with people who you know,
are poets, are our event producers, so they're sending us events.
We're finding events in the wild, but using that filter
to disseminate through Slack and and you know, group think
what we should send out. And um, it's been a
it's been an interesting test around. I'm definitely excited to
see where we where we take it over the next
(12:01):
few months, especially this summer coming up. And it's called
what are you calling it? The Cultural Hotline? How do
you sign up Culture Hotline dot coorn text number. You know,
it's interesting both of you watching your socials. Other than
it making me completely exhausted, I feel like you just said,
watching your social watching socials. I saw this week and
it was crazy Um, I thought I was busy. So
(12:27):
both of you obviously have super magnetic personalities. You're building
these insane communities and your respective circles. How do you
go out and seek the people that you're adding to
your circles? And then how can brands infiltrate that? What
is the value exchange that your circles are looking for? Yeah,
it's interesting because you know when you're when you're on
(12:47):
the agency side and you're you're building other brands, you
can go out and talk about it and you're proud
of it, and um, you see the work that you
you put out. But when it's your brand, it's your
d n A, it's your life, your blood, sweat and tears. Um.
You know, I'm out there and I'm just naturally talking
about what I'm doing. And and you know when I
when I can speak to a friend or someone I
(13:08):
just met, and their eyes light up and they say, wow,
this is really interesting, like how can I help? I think, UM,
when it comes from a real place of authenticity and
genuine like I think they can see the passion behind
the entrepreneur and they say, wow, like this could be
really cool. How can I help? Um? I was out
in l A. And I was, UM. I was with
(13:29):
a friend who has an ice cream popsicle company, and
he was doing a pop up an outdoor voices. They
were doing a running club and UM, I come like
the runners come in and we're handing out popsicles and
I'm just there kind of hanging out. And I start
talking to a guy and he's got a branding agency,
and UM, he he loved everything we're doing. Is I
got to connect you to this guy and this guy
and this person and this woman. And next thing I know,
(13:49):
I'm in l A for three days and I'm meeting
a ton of people that that UM, I had never known,
I never even known existed. But by the fact of UM,
you know, having conversation and not being nervous or or
scared to talk about what you're doing, UM, it opened
up all these doors at My community is slowly building
and building and building, And I don't know what it's
(14:10):
gonna look like in in six months or a year,
but I know that if I keep surrounding myself with
the right people who believe in the mission and and
can see like, hey this, you know what what is
being built here is a little different or UM I
know someone who can help. I think if we all
just rally around that idea of helping each other and
but being a part of something that a lot of
(14:31):
shared value. Um, I think the community, it just becomes
incredibly powerful. So you're talking about people who are helping
you build your business. But do you think everything you
just said actually goes over to consumers and how you're
going to interact with customers of twice? Yeah? I think so. Um,
maybe I'm a naive entrepreneur, but I I think when
(14:51):
you can build a brand that stands for something bigger
than the product you make, um, they can see it.
And I think, um, you know you and talk to
ten people, and and if only five of them believe
in you, that's great. Go with the five, yeah, and
and leave the other five. It's interesting. We had the
founder of Away Suitcases on a couple episodes ago, and
(15:13):
we were talking about founders living the brand out loud,
and I think you just gave wearing a twice hat.
But can I just say you have a twice What
are these things? I didn't know what they were called,
and now I can't believe you didn't bring us any merch.
Think about community for me was like the first event
(15:35):
that we did that was formal was literally called Connected Dots,
and I was like, I realized, like people that are
musicians and people that are like trying to do events
for nonprofit they need something like there's something missing, right.
So I literally invited people that were not I myself
and my co founders. We invited people that were working
in the starting nonprofits are did like pr marketing, r
(15:55):
musicians because they always needed performers. They always need a promotion.
It's very interesting. There's a small brunch MABE like forty
um and at that brunch with some people that I
still keep in touch with that our movies and shakers,
but that was one of our first organized events, and
that that essence of like minded individuals of like, this
idea of community something you can't replicate. You can't go
to a you can't go to an agency, can't go
to a brand. Partners say like, hey, we want to
(16:16):
do this event and we need like people that work
with each other to be there. That's so like being
able to overtime, you know, put people in the same
room that can have similar issues but have solutions and
have different perspectives on those on those problems. It's something
that you can't really quantify. And that's I think what's
been difficult and why I've kept it as a let's say,
a five to nine for so long. It's just it
takes a while to show and prove what that what
(16:38):
that value is. But um, now with the idea of
like micro influencers, people are seeing that that those are
the those are the folks, these people in Brooklyn and
New York and Uptown and Washington Heights, in the Bronx,
these pockets of community that have been around forever. But
now with social media you're able to have a voice
in a platform. It's given a whole new value to
like these underground communities. What you just said tongue and
something Alex and I have brainstormed about for a very
(17:01):
long time in terms of building community is you can't
go and buy it overnight. It's something that a long Yeah.
I mean that's why red Bull has been so successful, Right,
they get in at the grassroots and they but they
built and they fund these communities and they stick with them.
What should brands be doing for your very cool hip
(17:22):
like culture driven communities that you would find to be
a tangible value exchange. I mean, really, they need to
get out of the office, right, Like I felt like
a lot of times, Uh, we're ideating and we're all
white boards and we're doing things, and it's like, go
talk to the people you want to talk to. There's
so many people that already doing these things. You need
(17:44):
influencers to help you aggregate influence, right if it's like, hey,
I want to you know, I want to talk to um,
I want to talk to black women about hair. I
can give you five communities that have blogs and instagrams
with double digit thousand followers, and the women that run
them probably work in corporate America. Like, it's not it's
not this thing that's so far removed. You can sit
down and have a conversation with people who are moving
and shaking these communities. I think we've treated like it's
(18:06):
this far fetched thing, you know. And I think just
going out and touching people something that it's hard to
do when you have that kind of corporate structure role
or that brand role. I met this woman named sam
Hi Sam shout out. I told you I'd shout you
out at the I A B say Hi Cody Hi
sam Um at the I A b Women visionary Summach.
(18:27):
She came up to me and she was like, I
love the show. It means a lot. She started talking
about like just how do you break because she's like,
I'm not leaving right this world. I love this world.
I love the advertising marketing media world. I'm not going
to leave it, But like, how do you start breaking
through with some of these ideas and some of the
thinking that I have coming from the outside on the inside,
(18:49):
How have you done that? Even in my early days
of B Video where I met Laura UM, the brands
that broke through became part of culture UM in a
unique way. Not probably trying to force themselves in saying
like hey I want to be in music, UM, but
on a ground level, trying to help build something new. UM.
And when you're not the elephant in the room saying
(19:10):
like yeah, I'm here with the cool kids, it's it's
more of like, hey, how do we how do we
help you? UM? Remember Boccardi, you know, four or five
years ago, I was getting into the music space, and UM,
they were always around, how do I provide and create
culture for emerging artists and UM even you know artists themselves. UM.
(19:31):
From a visual perspective, right, like they were they were
allowing them opportunities to grow their personal brand. Um. And yeah,
you know it became an experience that you would you
would be a part of. But I think ultimately if
you were to ask one of them musicians or artists, say,
was this helpful? Like it can? It can make a career, right,
I think, Um, to create culture and to be a
(19:53):
part of subcultures and communities means um, not trying to
you know, barge through the front door, but but hanging
out and like learning, right, like stop talking and just listen,
um and you'll figure out something really cool to do together. Yeah,
you touched on something that's really important about like solving
a need. Are providing access on a platform like you
look at what Pocardi has done and then their partnership
(20:15):
with Swizz and like the Dan Collection are sparing often
what they've done for you know, women and trans women
in music and specific leaning in on that, right, like
not trying to be not trying to be everything for
everyone in music. Are chasing a E d M trend,
but it's like who who Who's not getting shown any love?
Who deserves you know, some a corporate Stamp are to
do a show for us in a brand, So it
(20:35):
makes a lot of sense. You guys are really young.
I worked with you at G and you had some
of the best, bravest and loudest without screaming voices. How
do you come to the table with a client like
a g E or a PICCARDI or right and be
(20:56):
the young person in the room man or woman? Man
or woman? Like what do what do you do to
get those ideas across? Yeah, and it's, um, that's a
good question. I think from my experience I was. I
was fortunate to be put in a room, um, you
know with the bigger folks in the creative department and
(21:16):
the account management teams, and and they looked at me
and I was like the young millennial in the room
and they and they were trying to solve big problems
of how big brands maintain relevance and create community within
you know, a younger demo. And I just talked about
my experience, um, and I never overthought, you know what
I was saying. I really was just like, hey, guys, like,
(21:39):
this is what's happening today. It was everything was from
my phone, my world like projected out on the walls
and on the screens, and at the end of the day,
it helped evolve creative work. It it helped unique partnerships,
and I was super grateful and fortunate to be in
those positions. UM, But ultimately it was it was me.
(22:02):
I didn't try to be anyone who wasn't like your brand. Yeah, yeah,
I think that the it came up a couple of
times with the idea of authenticity, and then that's when
people actually listen to you and care what you have
to say. If you're trying to fake the funk or
pull you know, pull inside out of the sky. And
I think you know when people hear that in your voice, right,
if you're talking about something you know about and not
speaking about things you don't know about, asking good questions.
(22:23):
When you ask those questions, people realize you're you're coming
to the table, you know, with with some sort of equity.
You're you're not just trying to show out and be
the loudest, our smartest person in the room, but just
actually adding value. What would your advice be to the
C suite listening to this conversation UM, within agency world,
within brand, with our industry at large, what would you say, UM,
(22:48):
now that you're on the outside of it, that you
think you could kind of give us a feedback loop
to help advance or progress, UM, what's currently going on
for people your age and the agent you right, and
also getting those ideas out because like how many leaders
sit and say I want these ideas. I want these ideas.
Either they're sitting at the middle layer right of your
(23:10):
organization and you don't even know it, or you've selected
some like weird advisory group and made them think only
in a certain way on a brief. On a brief, yeah,
I think outside of the brief and outside of the process,
you have to enable you know, the young kids in
the agency UM to go outside of their daily job.
Like It's funny when I was when I was a BBDO,
(23:32):
I wanted to do everything but my job. I wanted
to make weird partnerships happen and and pushing ideas that
weren't you know, traditional UM. And when you also when
you when you get when you attract yourself towards someone
in the agency, UM who's in a different position. I think,
I know mentorship platforms and programs are are in a
lot of agencies, but UM, a lot of the times,
(23:55):
people naturally, you know, link up with someone and I
was fortunate to have a mentor and in Simon Bond,
who is the CMO at the time, and um, you know,
he brought me along on on projects that were you know,
not the normal. Um. But I think if if big
time leaders in those agencies have more of an open
door or not that you know, the junior strategist is
knocking on the door every twenty minutes, because that's not
(24:16):
gonna get anything done. But um, you know they don't
feel um, you know, put aside if they had a
great idea, um, you know, you have to enable every idea.
I remember I was at Live Nation and I had
I had a thought for how Ticketmaster and Live Nation
could sell each individual seat that goes unsold every night. Um.
(24:38):
And I was maniacal about this idea. I was like, well,
there's like there's five thousand seats in every arena that
goes unsold every night, Like we can Live Nation could
sell those and they could actually give them away to charity.
I came up with a whole platform and at the
end of the day, like, um, you have to have
be enabled to thrive in any environment. Um, long story
short and noo. They actually integrated a new new tech
(25:01):
into their website that minimized the risk of individual seats
being created. But every venue is so different in the
seating arrangements and how people are buying that it's inevitable. UM.
I actually pitched it to a brand and I re
skinned it into what I thought was incredible idea. So cool. Um,
we could talk about that offline over tequila or something.
But yeah, no, we pitched it to that. We pitched
(25:25):
to a booze brand and they loved it. We actually
had their UM, their head of pr say like, this
is the ideas that we're looking for. She like slammed
her hands on the table. She was like, this is fantastic. UM,
and it worked really well with their new campaign. Um.
But at the end of the day, UM, you know,
I remember leaving the room and someone on the team
said that's impossible to do, and I said, well, that's possible.
(25:49):
Is it like giving your kid a Yester day? Have
you heard of this? Parents now are giving their kids
yesterdays where they literally don't say no to anything. My daughter,
my husband and I would be like sitting on the
roof for something. If we just said if we had
a yes day would be like terrifying. But like, is
this like giving your employees a yesterday? Like is this
giving your middle management like you know what I mean,
(26:11):
Like let them go fucking do the moon shot even
if it's not gonna work, as long as it's logical,
as long as it has purpose, as long as they're passionate,
Like does that hurt? Yeah? I think, um, you know,
I think it definitely opens the door to say, hey,
we believe in your thinking. Yeah, because it's it's very
easy to get discouraged as a as a junior or
(26:33):
a young person the agency, because hey, like that's the cycle,
Like you're you're there for a specific role that you
know you're not at the level and the experience and
the expertise to walk in the door and smash the meeting.
That's right. Um, But if the right people are continually
saying like yeah, I can't like the way you think. Yeah,
my grandmother has this line You're welcome every time, just
(26:55):
not any time. And I think there's something really interesting
about sort of a strategic use case, like bring these
ideas forward, but make sure that we're helping as seasoned
veterans in the industry shape those ideas so that they
can get them at the table, but but don't like
yesterday should be every day. As far as yes, this
(27:16):
industry needs a lot more yesterday, Tom, What do you think?
I think the magical thing that happened at the spoon
is that that that discovery fund, that that was happening.
Most people talk about stuff like that and don't actually
let it happen. But what you said it is stepping
away from your day to day. I think every review
I've ever had since I started working as like, he's great,
but he always wants to do this other and it's like,
(27:39):
now a lot of people interesting, is that positioned as
a negative? Yes, exactly, And it's like but now you know,
now you get paid to do the other stuff, right,
and it's so it's really interesting. But I think the
aspect of being able to travel, our support, you know,
putting kind of putting your money where your mouth is
as a company and agency affirm whatever it is to
(28:00):
let people go explore. Because what you said earlier about
if you're passionate, if you're responsible, if if you're diligous,
you don't hire people that aren't those things, right, so
let him go take a trip, bring your whole self
to the culture back some insight. I agree. What is
the culture Fund? Yeah, so giant spoon. The Culture Fund
is this idea that um, every person in the organization
gets a stipend to basically go out and explore the
(28:22):
thing that they're passionate about, so long as they come
back to the table and educate everybody in the agency
about what that thing is. What do people do? Like
I used it to go to l a for It
was a great time to actually go because it was
the Dwell Design Festival as well as BT Awards weekend. Right,
And at the time I had my friend Jason Mowatt
who has Trapp Karaoke early stages of Trapp Karaoke, which
(28:44):
is now ridiculous. Uh it's HBO you got see. And
I presented it. I presented it and it was like
a very much smaller thing at the time and now
he has an Apple one deal he had. You know,
it's ridiculous. But when it comes to like exploring new
experience is or places or recess um, it brings new
creative energy without a doubt. I mean, I get so
(29:06):
much inspiration for traveling and seeing new cultures and learning
about trapped karaoke or like fight ball or this new
underground boxing like fight club. And it's kind of like
one couple friends of MAP projects they just had their
first like fight night. It was I think it's called
(29:26):
fight Night. It's you should check it out. It's like
all these amazing new subcultures experiences that I'm telling you
will spark new ideas for big brands you got. I
mean you guys, just I see it. Like when you
guys come to the table and you get to bring
your whole self. The level of creative energy and ideas
that come out of that, it's tenfold. It's ten fold.
When you're not structured in a brief, it is amazing
the power of what creativity will unlock. I also think
(29:49):
when you are structured in a brief, when you're thinking
a certain way because you're allowed, right, you're allowed, and
you've allowed yourself to think in that way. The other
great example, right the other day, we were talking to someone,
Laura and I were at dinner and I was like, well,
let's be clear, walls don't exist, right, We've we've created walls,
and we've created them now in institutions, we've created them
(30:11):
in giant holding companies. All of this, I think goes
to the fact that you guys have allowed yourself to
think in different ways, and so even if you're giving
given something that's structured, the way you see it is different.
There's what's the quote is like a right drunk at
it sober and I feel like that that's the name
(30:31):
of the title Bio actually become Instagram and it's but
it makes sense, right. What you're talking about is, you know,
having this recess time, having this you know, uh kind
of parlor room style brainstorm situation and you go back
and look at a brief and actually come up with
structured ideas. So yeah, so just curious before we play
(30:54):
our favorite Killed by d I y with you guys,
what is the campaign or ad or brand or something
in market right now about our industry that you're like, yeah,
like that that's what needs there needs to be more
of that. I'm gonna just say my own thing. I
would say it's the partnership that we did with Spotify
around the David Bowie is Um Exhibition Museum. Beautiful. Yeah,
(31:18):
they we did, you know, shout out to Spotify and
their creative scene. It's ridiculous. But five different you know,
MetroCard applications from different phases of Bowie's existence are as
many existences, let's call it. And they were only available
at the Broadway Lafayette stop. He lived a couple of
blocks away from there. They did out a home take
over for a few weeks prior and then wrapped the
whole station and original photography of Bowie from these different
(31:40):
eras and um and obviously we we augmented that with
our own paid media, but them as a partners just ridiculous,
you know. And you know they got ad Week, We've
got fast co write ups on it, and it just
made sense, like people were waiting just on eBay. It
was only bay within hours of being Yeah, the metro
cards up on eBay. My girlfriend's dad's like, where's my
metro card? Every day I come over there, where's my
(32:02):
metro card? So that lets me know it works. But
you created that link, you created that partnership between the
Brooklyn Museum and Spotify, Right, it just made sense that, well,
that's the whole thing, right, Like the magic, the magic
is also in the logic, right, the magic is in
the logic partnership. It was like David Bowie music Icon,
(32:24):
where do people listen to music? But then but then
how you guys brought it to life together with genius. Yeah.
My answer, I think is a little different because I
think for the last year and a half I've been
I haven't been looking up at out of homes. Um.
I think my world is completely changed. The people I
(32:46):
follow on Instagram, it's so funny. I have conversation with
with with girl friends of mine. They're like, why do
you know so much about beauty brands? Like I follow
every beauty brand under the sun because I want Oral
care to be a beauty category. Um. And I think
when I look at what brands are doing an amazing
job in building community and culture. Like I'm not looking
(33:07):
at out a home like maybe once in a blue
moon it'll strike me. But I look at what Marianna
Hewett's doing with Summer Friday. Um. She created um a
mask that's called the jet Lag Mask, and it's a
face moisturizer. When it comes, it's one product and one tube.
It's got a cool blue color. And if you check
out their Instagram, you see how overnight they created a
(33:28):
cult community. I mean Marianna Hewett is a huge blogger,
very influential, and you know when it comes to beauty products,
she's a absolute like she just gets it um. But
everything they do day in and day out, like I
want to use this product every day, like I want
to be part of this community. They're like sure, they
they epitomize such a specific person and I think it's
(33:52):
every you know, hustling millennial today. It's like you're always
on the road, like jet lag is every day. But
I don't really care if I'm jet lag cause I'm
still going to go crush this day. And like they
created this whole world that like you just want to
fall into. So kill by d I what you guys
know we do this right? Okay? So what would you kill?
It's like kill Mary, what would you kill? What would
(34:14):
you buy? What would you do? Yourself? Up? Brands? You pick,
you pick and you cannot use twice. Let's kill pre
roll ads on YouTube? Okay, all right, what are you killing?
I would kill overspending on direct consumer marketing. I think
I see Away Luggage and I see rate In right,
Like both have competitive products. They both market the hell
(34:36):
out of their brand, but one is created an incredible
community that is taking them above the rest. And um,
I just I heard that you know Away is killing
it and rate in despite the facade. My you know,
they're not doing too well financially. So I think, um,
there's a there's a facade created around brands that throw
money in subway ads and and traditional at home is like, Hey,
(34:56):
I'm the new direction consumer brand of X y Z,
and you know, I'm building a brand in that space
objection tower. But I want to do it organically, and
I don't want to overspend on traditional world of marketing
as a new brand, So I would kill that. Okay,
are you buying? I would buy the organic foods category.
(35:17):
I think I see the whole thing. Yeah, I'm gung
ho on it all. I see, Um, what's the company
that sends you the cans of Daily Harvest? Like Daily
Harvest has made it so easy to be healthy, and
I think it's a beautiful thing as an entrepreneur, as
a young person in the city, like hustling their way,
Like eating healthy is important, right, Like I think mind, body, soul,
(35:40):
everything works together when you feel good. And like those brands,
I think I look too to say like, hey, they're
going to help you as a person. Um, and maybe
that gets back to like a purpose driven brand. Yeah,
I'm buying everyone tickets to the Rockaway Beach to go
do silent retreats. Yeah, I'm in. It's actually pay with you,
(36:00):
so you know I don't even have to buy it.
Thanks Tom, that's a great gift. What are you doing
yourself other than the amazing businesses you're building? Yeah, Um,
this is one of my biggest pet peeves. It's not
like a brand or thing, but um, traveling right t
s A pre check is a great thing. I don't
(36:20):
have it. You're going to do clear? I have to,
but every time I like, I totally forget and it's
a whole pain. Is there like a watch like rental
company thing that's going on? Because I like wearing watches,
but I don't like buying watches, Like could I just
pay a subscription fee and get a dope watch like
every three weeks? I would put money that that exists.
I haven't seen it. And that's myself to actually do
(36:41):
one between friends, you can change. I think we just created.
Let's create something that one that's perfect. Guys, if people
want to talk to you get inspiration from you. How
can they get in touch with you? Um, Cody Hat
Smile twice dot com is my email. UM, I'm also
lavicy on Instagram l V I c I. You'll see
(37:02):
the best overalls at burning Man by far. That's what
I wanted to use my culture fund. By the way,
as you can find me at mikey seven eight Underscore
are the Culture LP And what's the text number for
(37:23):
The text number is three four seven six nine oh
seven six seven seven. So you want to get down
with cool things that are happening that you don't know
about texts in New York. In New York, Brooklyn's were
cool stuff happens. But yeah, because somebody who's from Jersey.
So Cody Been, we love you, Mike Tongue, we love you,
Thank you for coming. Happy Memorial Day everyone. Those guys,
(37:54):
I mean, the Inner Huth and Sing I just love
what they're doing, the kind of risk that they've gone
out to live their true selves and chase their passions
and turn it into their purpose, and it's just it's unbelievable.
One of the things that when we were talking about
having these guys on, we were like, who represents everyone
that can go out and burst right, you were special.
(38:15):
These guys are special, but like also, there are millions
Mike Tongs and Cody Levine's out there. We're sitting at
their desk going, I want to work on everything right.
It was so good, so big inspiration and big inspirations
for us because we're definitely not under third inption anymore.
(38:36):
Big thanks to our friends and family, Apanaly, Andy Bowers,
Matt Turk, and Jacob Weisberg. We'll be back in two weeks.
Happy summer everyone. Full disclosure, our opinions, our our own
I'm off my game today, You're not. People are going
to have to start making better content. I think we're
gonna be talking about this for a long time. When
you program for everyone, you program for no one. I
think it's that we're purpose driven platform, like we're trying
to get to substance. How was that? Are you happy
with that? This is marketing therapy right now? It really is?
(00:27):
What's up? I'm Laura Currency and I'm Alexa Kristen. Welcome
back to at Landia. The only thing separating me from
the Jersey Shore right now, and it's the only thing
I would have came to Brooklyn for UM. We have
Cody Levine and Mike Tongue coming into the studio to
ex agency young guns who have broken out to turn
their passion and to purpose their side hustle into the
(00:47):
main hustle. And I think we have a thing or
two that they can really teach the agency about where
we're missing the mark on creativity agency brands. I think leadership. Seriously,
these guys have a anything one liners. So with that,
we'll be right back. Welcome back, everybody. We're here with
(01:17):
Cody Levine, Hi, co founder of toothpaste brand twice and
the total Brooklyn artiste Mike Tongue is in the building.
Mike Tongue is a marketing manager over at the Brooklyn
Museum and also the founder of the Culture LP. Hello. Hello,
both of you ex agency people that Alex and I
(01:38):
have had the fortunate opportunity to have worked with in
some capacity in our careers and as young guns. If
I may say this under the age of thirty, how
old are you? Just call it out? Yeah, And something
happened for the both of you where you decided in
the not too distant past that you were going to
(01:59):
take your path actions and turn them into your everyday work. Tom,
talk about what that was like for you, kind of
stepping away from the traditional agency world where you had
been somebody who's hot in the art scene out in Brooklyn,
and talk about your kind of diversion back into that
via the Brooklyn Museum. Yeah. I mean it's been I
guess it's been gradual the whole time. The two worlds
(02:21):
have been colliding. They collide in the work to right,
you see it in the agency space, like let's do
this art activation, let's do this sort of street art
um kind of integration or whatever. It may have you,
but for me, I had never stopped doing the cultural work.
It was always a five to nine thing. But it
just got to the point where five to nine am
the next day just to clarify. But it just got
(02:42):
to the point where it just made too much sense.
And on a personal tip, you know, my father was
an artist, and it just was like, this is when
I have to go full go and and really lean
in on you know, the culture right. And it's something
that I think institutions like the Brookn Museum and other
cultural institutions need, right. They their new fundering stores and
things of that nature. Are these tech companies and these
media platforms and everybody wants to show up cross screen
(03:05):
and things of that nature, but they can't do it
without actually understand how these companies work. So it was
kind of a perfect fit for me. They brought their
agency services in the house, so it was just you know, yeah,
it was so funny because I was talking to a
group of cmos and I said, do you are you
actually looking at your teams instead of when we've talked
about this on the show, like you're looking at your
teams instead of resources. Actually his talent and I used
(03:25):
you as an example. I was like, because if I
need someone to think with me, really think with me,
and think about how people are going to show up,
how they're going to interact and not showing up as
a brand that's tone deaf. You need people like Tong
and Cody. Yeah, and coincidentally, both of you have been
inspired by your dad, so do. Your father is a
(03:47):
well known dentist in New York City, and he inspired
you and your brother to walk away from UM your
nine to five's and chase down the opportunity to build
your own DTC brand. Can you talk about twice? Yeah? Absolutely? UM,
for me, it was interesting. I always knew I wanted
to start my own brand, but I didn't know what
exactly would be. And through some work we have been
(04:09):
doing as a family, dad being a dentist, mom and
dad building brands together in the space of oral care,
they started a nonprofit which was really set up to
provide full service dentistry to underserved communities. And Um, what
happened was I go down with my brother and a
group of dentists. We team up with a patient of
my dad' who's Lenny Kravitz, and we end up we
(04:29):
end up in the beautiful mouth. He's got a great,
beautiful mouth. Yeah, smiles important for him. And we go
down there where he spends, you know, most of the
year recording his music and he calls at home, and
we set up a full service shop, and um we
treated everyone from cleanings and whitenings to full extractions and reconstruction.
And I think, right then and there, in that moment,
(04:51):
my brother and I we saw what the power of
a smile was. And it opened my eyes and it
gave me purpose to what I ultimately want to do,
which is start a brand, but one that has purpose
behind it and and meaning and true depth and could
get back. So we, you know, after formulating over a year,
two years, we go back down to Luther and we
(05:13):
we decide to each other. We say, let's do something
about this. We pink got to do more. We I
don't think I can go back to my day job.
I can't go back to the desk. I UM, let's
go build. So we looked at the oral care space
and and we ultimately ended up with Twice, which I
could tell you a lot more about, but um, it's
a direct consumer brand in oral care. We're starting with toothpaste.
(05:33):
We want to make the products that you use every
single day, twice a day to be um as beautiful
as a smile is. So you know, it's something that
I took the jump on back in September, uh to
leave my job and say, you know, this is what
I'm going to do. And I talked to a ton
of friends that are entrepreneurs and they said, you know, well,
before I did it, I had milestones I wanted to hit,
UM things I wanted to accomplish. For me, it was UM.
(05:56):
I was still you know, I was working and and
proud of work I was doing, but ultimately knew if
I really wanted to do this, I had to dedicate
everything UM. And it was a it was an incredible
moment in time when I did that. UM is scary
in a yeah, it was scary, but the adrenaline was
just beyond I actually, yeah, I quit on a Wednesday.
(06:19):
On Wednesday night, I actually was on a flight to
go pitch the brand to a potential partner and and
a co founder of ours. So um, the rush was
everything nervous, Sure, every day you're you're nervous, energy you
turned into excitement. I think there's a whole thing going
on in the marketplace, which I know both of you
know well having worked with you, that your generation, our generation,
(06:41):
the millennial generation, is one that is compelled to associate
or align themselves with brands that identify with purpose. I
would say, respectively, both of the places you work for
with our building, UM resonate with that. Can you talk about,
both as consumers and as entrepreneurs in your own right,
what purpose means to you and how you see the
(07:04):
intersection of those things, translating from how you think about
brands versus how you're creating them. Yeah, I think. I've
always thought that people don't buy what you do, they
buy why you do it, and behind every product, you
need to help consumers understand, you know, how you relate
to them on a personal level. And UM, I think today,
(07:26):
more than ever, consumers are I don't want to say
they're skeptical, but you know me and my friends, they
need to know more, they need to see more the
world of transparency. UM. A brand like r X bar
are completely shaking it up by saying like there's two
eggs in almond and a dayton Yeah, no bs, And
I think UM, in the world of brands that have
social at the core or or are driven by purpose,
(07:48):
they that's part of their DNA and it's no longer
just like attack on UM and you have to prove
that day in and day out, and people have to
really feel it. Yeah. I mean for me, it's interesting
because the the idea of culture is like super lucid, right,
like it's everything that we do UM. So I ended
up building a business model kind of around just in
my lifestyle. I would like to go to art shows.
(08:09):
I like supporting my friends they needed help with mail,
chip and social media and ship like that, and it
just ended up turning into a service offering, which is like,
looking back at it, now I can't go to an
art show and not think about work. So it's kind
of something I was talking about last night, is like
this blurred line between the two. But the idea of
UM purpose is just something that's been at the core
of on both sides. Right. The museum is a place
(08:30):
that you know, it likes to think about the community
and put the community first, whether it's through for free
events are just bringing in different speakers to talk about things,
whether it's the election, whether it's you know, UM, immigration rights,
things of that nature. UM. So to be able to
work at us space like that is super refreshing and rewarding. Um.
And then for me purposefully, I like to stay in Brooklyn.
(08:50):
I like Brooklyn. We didn't get into culture lp We
didn't get into the side hustle main hustle. Yeah. So
um So the culture lp um started as a blog
about maybe six years ago. I was still in school.
I really had some friends, like kind of similar to
what we're talking about this age of transparency, but I
feel like Twitter was a place where people were just
talking a lot of ship, having fun, getting attention for
being funny, not really like anything of substance at that point. Um.
(09:12):
I feel like I was one of them, and I
was like, well, I have some friends doing some really
creative things. I want to highlight them. I grabbed SLR
from you know, the Bucknell Library, and I videotaped a
couple of my friends who had done some poetry on
you know, microaggressions and things that we were going through
at Bucknell University, just being really white space in the
middle of Pennsylvania where all kids from different cities Boston,
d C, New York, UM, and I kind of just
(09:33):
left them freestyle and you know, did a spoken word video,
put it on Vimeo. I was like, this is cool,
made some T shirts. I was like, this is cool.
You know. I just kept going with that, you know,
fast forward. UM. I now worked closely with a few
visual artists who have done you know, street murals for
a city bike in South Africa. Patrick ey Jean just
did a live art installation up in Massachusetts at the
Met Museum. Um. These are all folks. You know. Ronald
(09:54):
Draper just got the awarded uh Urban Public League, you know,
a c P. He's the curator at Harlem Hospital. And
these are guys that like we rented his first studio
in Harlem for eight hundred bucks to do a show,
and we had like seventy r s v p s.
And now we put out a show. We had like
fives in the first four days, had a closing link,
you know. And it's like, but by just believing in
these creators and being a partner to them, someone who
(10:16):
understands like marketing frameworks and how brands think we're able
to you know, secure sponsorship with Essential Water or you know,
any other partners that we've worked with. Pad did a
commission for Nike like things of that nature. Um. But
the two worlds are just so parallel from the museum
is dying to play in that space. So it's really interesting. Well,
I want to talk about that, but I want to
first say the other day we were having lunch and
you said to me, and it was so simple. You
(10:38):
were like, you know that friend that you had, or
maybe you were this person that you would call and say,
what's going on this weekend? I haven't talked about that, right.
So the other thing, because you have like a million things, um,
is this new service that you put together. And I
thought it was so smart because everyone has that friend
or you're that friend, which sometimes becomes a burden. Are
(10:59):
that friend? Um? Yeah, I feel like there was a
there was a tipping point where somebody had text me.
I asked me, I have some my families in town.
What's going on? Is there an art show I should
take them to? Is there a museum opening? This before
I started working museum, probably before I started working, uh
in any agency role. And I was like, I can't
keep doing this every weekend, every day, somebody's asking me
this question. And Ryan Leslie has a service called super
(11:20):
Phone that's really made for musicians to like directly connect
with their consumers. You know, off of social media you
can track shopify integrations and who's spending the most money,
what zip codes are supporting you. So we were using
that right now, just texting people on like twice to
three times a week telling them art, food, music related
events that are happening locally in New York. Um, it's
(11:40):
great for us because for the past five years we've
been building these cultural experiences with people who you know,
are poets, are our event producers, so they're sending us events.
We're finding events in the wild, but using that filter
to disseminate through Slack and and you know, group think
what we should send out. And um, it's been a
it's been an interesting test around. I'm definitely excited to
see where we where we take it over the next
(12:01):
few months, especially this summer coming up. And it's called
what are you calling it? The Cultural Hotline? How do
you sign up Culture Hotline dot coorn text number. You know,
it's interesting both of you watching your socials. Other than
it making me completely exhausted, I feel like you just said,
watching your social watching socials. I saw this week and
it was crazy Um, I thought I was busy. So
(12:27):
both of you obviously have super magnetic personalities. You're building
these insane communities and your respective circles. How do you
go out and seek the people that you're adding to
your circles? And then how can brands infiltrate that? What
is the value exchange that your circles are looking for? Yeah,
it's interesting because you know when you're when you're on
(12:47):
the agency side and you're you're building other brands, you
can go out and talk about it and you're proud
of it, and um, you see the work that you
you put out. But when it's your brand, it's your
d n A, it's your life, your blood, sweat and tears. Um.
You know, I'm out there and I'm just naturally talking
about what I'm doing. And and you know when I
when I can speak to a friend or someone I
(13:08):
just met, and their eyes light up and they say, wow,
this is really interesting, like how can I help? I think, UM,
when it comes from a real place of authenticity and
genuine like I think they can see the passion behind
the entrepreneur and they say, wow, like this could be
really cool. How can I help? Um? I was out
in l A. And I was, UM. I was with
(13:29):
a friend who has an ice cream popsicle company, and
he was doing a pop up an outdoor voices. They
were doing a running club and UM, I come like
the runners come in and we're handing out popsicles and
I'm just there kind of hanging out. And I start
talking to a guy and he's got a branding agency,
and UM, he he loved everything we're doing. Is I
got to connect you to this guy and this guy
and this person and this woman. And next thing I know,
(13:49):
I'm in l A for three days and I'm meeting
a ton of people that that UM, I had never known,
I never even known existed. But by the fact of UM,
you know, having conversation and not being nervous or or
scared to talk about what you're doing, UM, it opened
up all these doors at My community is slowly building
and building and building, And I don't know what it's
(14:10):
gonna look like in in six months or a year,
but I know that if I keep surrounding myself with
the right people who believe in the mission and and
can see like, hey this, you know what what is
being built here is a little different or UM I
know someone who can help. I think if we all
just rally around that idea of helping each other and
but being a part of something that a lot of
(14:31):
shared value. Um, I think the community, it just becomes
incredibly powerful. So you're talking about people who are helping
you build your business. But do you think everything you
just said actually goes over to consumers and how you're
going to interact with customers of twice? Yeah? I think so. Um,
maybe I'm a naive entrepreneur, but I I think when
(14:51):
you can build a brand that stands for something bigger
than the product you make, um, they can see it.
And I think, um, you know you and talk to
ten people, and and if only five of them believe
in you, that's great. Go with the five, yeah, and
and leave the other five. It's interesting. We had the
founder of Away Suitcases on a couple episodes ago, and
(15:13):
we were talking about founders living the brand out loud,
and I think you just gave wearing a twice hat.
But can I just say you have a twice What
are these things? I didn't know what they were called,
and now I can't believe you didn't bring us any merch.
Think about community for me was like the first event
(15:35):
that we did that was formal was literally called Connected Dots,
and I was like, I realized, like people that are
musicians and people that are like trying to do events
for nonprofit they need something like there's something missing, right.
So I literally invited people that were not I myself
and my co founders. We invited people that were working
in the starting nonprofits are did like pr marketing, r
(15:55):
musicians because they always needed performers. They always need a promotion.
It's very interesting. There's a small brunch MABE like forty
um and at that brunch with some people that I
still keep in touch with that our movies and shakers,
but that was one of our first organized events, and
that that essence of like minded individuals of like, this
idea of community something you can't replicate. You can't go
to a you can't go to an agency, can't go
to a brand. Partners say like, hey, we want to
(16:16):
do this event and we need like people that work
with each other to be there. That's so like being
able to overtime, you know, put people in the same
room that can have similar issues but have solutions and
have different perspectives on those on those problems. It's something
that you can't really quantify. And that's I think what's
been difficult and why I've kept it as a let's say,
a five to nine for so long. It's just it
takes a while to show and prove what that what
(16:38):
that value is. But um, now with the idea of
like micro influencers, people are seeing that that those are
the those are the folks, these people in Brooklyn and
New York and Uptown and Washington Heights, in the Bronx,
these pockets of community that have been around forever. But
now with social media you're able to have a voice
in a platform. It's given a whole new value to
like these underground communities. What you just said tongue and
something Alex and I have brainstormed about for a very
(17:01):
long time in terms of building community is you can't
go and buy it overnight. It's something that a long Yeah.
I mean that's why red Bull has been so successful, Right,
they get in at the grassroots and they but they
built and they fund these communities and they stick with them.
What should brands be doing for your very cool hip
(17:22):
like culture driven communities that you would find to be
a tangible value exchange. I mean, really, they need to
get out of the office, right, Like I felt like
a lot of times, Uh, we're ideating and we're all
white boards and we're doing things, and it's like, go
talk to the people you want to talk to. There's
so many people that already doing these things. You need
(17:44):
influencers to help you aggregate influence, right if it's like, hey,
I want to you know, I want to talk to um,
I want to talk to black women about hair. I
can give you five communities that have blogs and instagrams
with double digit thousand followers, and the women that run
them probably work in corporate America. Like, it's not it's
not this thing that's so far removed. You can sit
down and have a conversation with people who are moving
and shaking these communities. I think we've treated like it's
(18:06):
this far fetched thing, you know. And I think just
going out and touching people something that it's hard to
do when you have that kind of corporate structure role
or that brand role. I met this woman named sam
Hi Sam shout out. I told you I'd shout you
out at the I A B say Hi Cody Hi
sam Um at the I A b Women visionary Summach.
(18:27):
She came up to me and she was like, I
love the show. It means a lot. She started talking
about like just how do you break because she's like,
I'm not leaving right this world. I love this world.
I love the advertising marketing media world. I'm not going
to leave it, But like, how do you start breaking
through with some of these ideas and some of the
thinking that I have coming from the outside on the inside,
(18:49):
How have you done that? Even in my early days
of B Video where I met Laura UM, the brands
that broke through became part of culture UM in a
unique way. Not probably trying to force themselves in saying
like hey I want to be in music, UM, but
on a ground level, trying to help build something new. UM.
And when you're not the elephant in the room saying
(19:10):
like yeah, I'm here with the cool kids, it's it's
more of like, hey, how do we how do we
help you? UM? Remember Boccardi, you know, four or five
years ago, I was getting into the music space, and UM,
they were always around, how do I provide and create
culture for emerging artists and UM even you know artists themselves. UM.
(19:31):
From a visual perspective, right, like they were they were
allowing them opportunities to grow their personal brand. Um. And yeah,
you know it became an experience that you would you
would be a part of. But I think ultimately if
you were to ask one of them musicians or artists, say,
was this helpful? Like it can? It can make a career, right,
I think, Um, to create culture and to be a
(19:53):
part of subcultures and communities means um, not trying to
you know, barge through the front door, but but hanging
out and like learning, right, like stop talking and just listen,
um and you'll figure out something really cool to do together. Yeah,
you touched on something that's really important about like solving
a need. Are providing access on a platform like you
look at what Pocardi has done and then their partnership
(20:15):
with Swizz and like the Dan Collection are sparing often
what they've done for you know, women and trans women
in music and specific leaning in on that, right, like
not trying to be not trying to be everything for
everyone in music. Are chasing a E d M trend,
but it's like who who Who's not getting shown any love?
Who deserves you know, some a corporate Stamp are to
do a show for us in a brand, So it
(20:35):
makes a lot of sense. You guys are really young.
I worked with you at G and you had some
of the best, bravest and loudest without screaming voices. How
do you come to the table with a client like
a g E or a PICCARDI or right and be
(20:56):
the young person in the room man or woman? Man
or woman? Like what do what do you do to
get those ideas across? Yeah, and it's, um, that's a
good question. I think from my experience I was. I
was fortunate to be put in a room, um, you
know with the bigger folks in the creative department and
(21:16):
the account management teams, and and they looked at me
and I was like the young millennial in the room
and they and they were trying to solve big problems
of how big brands maintain relevance and create community within
you know, a younger demo. And I just talked about
my experience, um, and I never overthought, you know what
I was saying. I really was just like, hey, guys, like,
(21:39):
this is what's happening today. It was everything was from
my phone, my world like projected out on the walls
and on the screens, and at the end of the day,
it helped evolve creative work. It it helped unique partnerships,
and I was super grateful and fortunate to be in
those positions. UM, But ultimately it was it was me.
(22:02):
I didn't try to be anyone who wasn't like your brand. Yeah, yeah,
I think that the it came up a couple of
times with the idea of authenticity, and then that's when
people actually listen to you and care what you have
to say. If you're trying to fake the funk or
pull you know, pull inside out of the sky. And
I think you know when people hear that in your voice, right,
if you're talking about something you know about and not
speaking about things you don't know about, asking good questions.
(22:23):
When you ask those questions, people realize you're you're coming
to the table, you know, with with some sort of equity.
You're you're not just trying to show out and be
the loudest, our smartest person in the room, but just
actually adding value. What would your advice be to the
C suite listening to this conversation UM, within agency world,
within brand, with our industry at large, what would you say, UM,
(22:48):
now that you're on the outside of it, that you
think you could kind of give us a feedback loop
to help advance or progress, UM, what's currently going on
for people your age and the agent you right, and
also getting those ideas out because like how many leaders
sit and say I want these ideas. I want these ideas.
Either they're sitting at the middle layer right of your
(23:10):
organization and you don't even know it, or you've selected
some like weird advisory group and made them think only
in a certain way on a brief. On a brief, yeah,
I think outside of the brief and outside of the process,
you have to enable you know, the young kids in
the agency UM to go outside of their daily job.
Like It's funny when I was when I was a BBDO,
(23:32):
I wanted to do everything but my job. I wanted
to make weird partnerships happen and and pushing ideas that
weren't you know, traditional UM. And when you also when
you when you get when you attract yourself towards someone
in the agency, UM who's in a different position. I think,
I know mentorship platforms and programs are are in a
lot of agencies, but UM, a lot of the times,
(23:55):
people naturally, you know, link up with someone and I
was fortunate to have a mentor and in Simon Bond,
who is the CMO at the time, and um, you know,
he brought me along on on projects that were you know,
not the normal. Um. But I think if if big
time leaders in those agencies have more of an open
door or not that you know, the junior strategist is
knocking on the door every twenty minutes, because that's not
(24:16):
gonna get anything done. But um, you know they don't
feel um, you know, put aside if they had a
great idea, um, you know, you have to enable every idea.
I remember I was at Live Nation and I had
I had a thought for how Ticketmaster and Live Nation
could sell each individual seat that goes unsold every night. Um.
(24:38):
And I was maniacal about this idea. I was like, well,
there's like there's five thousand seats in every arena that
goes unsold every night, Like we can Live Nation could
sell those and they could actually give them away to charity.
I came up with a whole platform and at the
end of the day, like, um, you have to have
be enabled to thrive in any environment. Um, long story
short and noo. They actually integrated a new new tech
(25:01):
into their website that minimized the risk of individual seats
being created. But every venue is so different in the
seating arrangements and how people are buying that it's inevitable. UM.
I actually pitched it to a brand and I re
skinned it into what I thought was incredible idea. So cool. Um,
we could talk about that offline over tequila or something.
But yeah, no, we pitched it to that. We pitched
(25:25):
to a booze brand and they loved it. We actually
had their UM, their head of pr say like, this
is the ideas that we're looking for. She like slammed
her hands on the table. She was like, this is fantastic. UM,
and it worked really well with their new campaign. Um.
But at the end of the day, UM, you know,
I remember leaving the room and someone on the team
said that's impossible to do, and I said, well, that's possible.
(25:49):
Is it like giving your kid a Yester day? Have
you heard of this? Parents now are giving their kids
yesterdays where they literally don't say no to anything. My daughter,
my husband and I would be like sitting on the
roof for something. If we just said if we had
a yes day would be like terrifying. But like, is
this like giving your employees a yesterday? Like is this
giving your middle management like you know what I mean,
(26:11):
Like let them go fucking do the moon shot even
if it's not gonna work, as long as it's logical,
as long as it has purpose, as long as they're passionate,
Like does that hurt? Yeah? I think, um, you know,
I think it definitely opens the door to say, hey,
we believe in your thinking. Yeah, because it's it's very
easy to get discouraged as a as a junior or
(26:33):
a young person the agency, because hey, like that's the cycle,
Like you're you're there for a specific role that you
know you're not at the level and the experience and
the expertise to walk in the door and smash the meeting.
That's right. Um, But if the right people are continually
saying like yeah, I can't like the way you think. Yeah,
my grandmother has this line You're welcome every time, just
(26:55):
not any time. And I think there's something really interesting
about sort of a strategic use case, like bring these
ideas forward, but make sure that we're helping as seasoned
veterans in the industry shape those ideas so that they
can get them at the table, but but don't like
yesterday should be every day. As far as yes, this
(27:16):
industry needs a lot more yesterday, Tom, What do you think?
I think the magical thing that happened at the spoon
is that that that discovery fund, that that was happening.
Most people talk about stuff like that and don't actually
let it happen. But what you said it is stepping
away from your day to day. I think every review
I've ever had since I started working as like, he's great,
but he always wants to do this other and it's like,
(27:39):
now a lot of people interesting, is that positioned as
a negative? Yes, exactly, And it's like but now you know,
now you get paid to do the other stuff, right,
and it's so it's really interesting. But I think the
aspect of being able to travel, our support, you know,
putting kind of putting your money where your mouth is
as a company and agency affirm whatever it is to
(28:00):
let people go explore. Because what you said earlier about
if you're passionate, if you're responsible, if if you're diligous,
you don't hire people that aren't those things, right, so
let him go take a trip, bring your whole self
to the culture back some insight. I agree. What is
the culture Fund? Yeah, so giant spoon. The Culture Fund
is this idea that um, every person in the organization
gets a stipend to basically go out and explore the
(28:22):
thing that they're passionate about, so long as they come
back to the table and educate everybody in the agency
about what that thing is. What do people do? Like
I used it to go to l a for It
was a great time to actually go because it was
the Dwell Design Festival as well as BT Awards weekend. Right,
And at the time I had my friend Jason Mowatt
who has Trapp Karaoke early stages of Trapp Karaoke, which
(28:44):
is now ridiculous. Uh it's HBO you got see. And
I presented it. I presented it and it was like
a very much smaller thing at the time and now
he has an Apple one deal he had. You know,
it's ridiculous. But when it comes to like exploring new
experience is or places or recess um, it brings new
creative energy without a doubt. I mean, I get so
(29:06):
much inspiration for traveling and seeing new cultures and learning
about trapped karaoke or like fight ball or this new
underground boxing like fight club. And it's kind of like
one couple friends of MAP projects they just had their
first like fight night. It was I think it's called
(29:26):
fight Night. It's you should check it out. It's like
all these amazing new subcultures experiences that I'm telling you
will spark new ideas for big brands you got. I
mean you guys, just I see it. Like when you
guys come to the table and you get to bring
your whole self. The level of creative energy and ideas
that come out of that, it's tenfold. It's ten fold.
When you're not structured in a brief, it is amazing
the power of what creativity will unlock. I also think
(29:49):
when you are structured in a brief, when you're thinking
a certain way because you're allowed, right, you're allowed, and
you've allowed yourself to think in that way. The other
great example, right the other day, we were talking to someone,
Laura and I were at dinner and I was like, well,
let's be clear, walls don't exist, right, We've we've created walls,
and we've created them now in institutions, we've created them
(30:11):
in giant holding companies. All of this, I think goes
to the fact that you guys have allowed yourself to
think in different ways, and so even if you're giving
given something that's structured, the way you see it is different.
There's what's the quote is like a right drunk at
it sober and I feel like that that's the name
(30:31):
of the title Bio actually become Instagram and it's but
it makes sense, right. What you're talking about is, you know,
having this recess time, having this you know, uh kind
of parlor room style brainstorm situation and you go back
and look at a brief and actually come up with
structured ideas. So yeah, so just curious before we play
(30:54):
our favorite Killed by d I y with you guys,
what is the campaign or ad or brand or something
in market right now about our industry that you're like, yeah,
like that that's what needs there needs to be more
of that. I'm gonna just say my own thing. I
would say it's the partnership that we did with Spotify
around the David Bowie is Um Exhibition Museum. Beautiful. Yeah,
(31:18):
they we did, you know, shout out to Spotify and
their creative scene. It's ridiculous. But five different you know,
MetroCard applications from different phases of Bowie's existence are as
many existences, let's call it. And they were only available
at the Broadway Lafayette stop. He lived a couple of
blocks away from there. They did out a home take
over for a few weeks prior and then wrapped the
whole station and original photography of Bowie from these different
(31:40):
eras and um and obviously we we augmented that with
our own paid media, but them as a partners just ridiculous,
you know. And you know they got ad Week, We've
got fast co write ups on it, and it just
made sense, like people were waiting just on eBay. It
was only bay within hours of being Yeah, the metro
cards up on eBay. My girlfriend's dad's like, where's my
metro card? Every day I come over there, where's my
(32:02):
metro card? So that lets me know it works. But
you created that link, you created that partnership between the
Brooklyn Museum and Spotify, Right, it just made sense that, well,
that's the whole thing, right, Like the magic, the magic
is also in the logic, right, the magic is in
the logic partnership. It was like David Bowie music Icon,
(32:24):
where do people listen to music? But then but then
how you guys brought it to life together with genius. Yeah.
My answer, I think is a little different because I
think for the last year and a half I've been
I haven't been looking up at out of homes. Um.
I think my world is completely changed. The people I
(32:46):
follow on Instagram, it's so funny. I have conversation with
with with girl friends of mine. They're like, why do
you know so much about beauty brands? Like I follow
every beauty brand under the sun because I want Oral
care to be a beauty category. Um. And I think
when I look at what brands are doing an amazing
job in building community and culture. Like I'm not looking
(33:07):
at out a home like maybe once in a blue
moon it'll strike me. But I look at what Marianna
Hewett's doing with Summer Friday. Um. She created um a
mask that's called the jet Lag Mask, and it's a
face moisturizer. When it comes, it's one product and one tube.
It's got a cool blue color. And if you check
out their Instagram, you see how overnight they created a
(33:28):
cult community. I mean Marianna Hewett is a huge blogger,
very influential, and you know when it comes to beauty products,
she's a absolute like she just gets it um. But
everything they do day in and day out, like I
want to use this product every day, like I want
to be part of this community. They're like sure, they
they epitomize such a specific person and I think it's
(33:52):
every you know, hustling millennial today. It's like you're always
on the road, like jet lag is every day. But
I don't really care if I'm jet lag cause I'm
still going to go crush this day. And like they
created this whole world that like you just want to
fall into. So kill by d I what you guys
know we do this right? Okay? So what would you kill?
It's like kill Mary, what would you kill? What would
(34:14):
you buy? What would you do? Yourself? Up? Brands? You pick,
you pick and you cannot use twice. Let's kill pre
roll ads on YouTube? Okay, all right, what are you killing?
I would kill overspending on direct consumer marketing. I think
I see Away Luggage and I see rate In right,
Like both have competitive products. They both market the hell
(34:36):
out of their brand, but one is created an incredible
community that is taking them above the rest. And um,
I just I heard that you know Away is killing
it and rate in despite the facade. My you know,
they're not doing too well financially. So I think, um,
there's a there's a facade created around brands that throw
money in subway ads and and traditional at home is like, Hey,
(34:56):
I'm the new direction consumer brand of X y Z,
and you know, I'm building a brand in that space
objection tower. But I want to do it organically, and
I don't want to overspend on traditional world of marketing
as a new brand, So I would kill that. Okay,
are you buying? I would buy the organic foods category.
(35:17):
I think I see the whole thing. Yeah, I'm gung
ho on it all. I see, Um, what's the company
that sends you the cans of Daily Harvest? Like Daily
Harvest has made it so easy to be healthy, and
I think it's a beautiful thing as an entrepreneur, as
a young person in the city, like hustling their way,
Like eating healthy is important, right, Like I think mind, body, soul,
(35:40):
everything works together when you feel good. And like those brands,
I think I look too to say like, hey, they're
going to help you as a person. Um, and maybe
that gets back to like a purpose driven brand. Yeah,
I'm buying everyone tickets to the Rockaway Beach to go
do silent retreats. Yeah, I'm in. It's actually pay with you,
(36:00):
so you know I don't even have to buy it.
Thanks Tom, that's a great gift. What are you doing
yourself other than the amazing businesses you're building? Yeah, Um,
this is one of my biggest pet peeves. It's not
like a brand or thing, but um, traveling right t
s A pre check is a great thing. I don't
(36:20):
have it. You're going to do clear? I have to,
but every time I like, I totally forget and it's
a whole pain. Is there like a watch like rental
company thing that's going on? Because I like wearing watches,
but I don't like buying watches, Like could I just
pay a subscription fee and get a dope watch like
every three weeks? I would put money that that exists.
I haven't seen it. And that's myself to actually do
(36:41):
one between friends, you can change. I think we just created.
Let's create something that one that's perfect. Guys, if people
want to talk to you get inspiration from you. How
can they get in touch with you? Um, Cody Hat
Smile twice dot com is my email. UM, I'm also
lavicy on Instagram l V I c I. You'll see
(37:02):
the best overalls at burning Man by far. That's what
I wanted to use my culture fund. By the way,
as you can find me at mikey seven eight Underscore
are the Culture LP And what's the text number for
(37:23):
The text number is three four seven six nine oh
seven six seven seven. So you want to get down
with cool things that are happening that you don't know
about texts in New York. In New York, Brooklyn's were
cool stuff happens. But yeah, because somebody who's from Jersey.
So Cody Been, we love you, Mike Tongue, we love you,
Thank you for coming. Happy Memorial Day everyone. Those guys,
(37:54):
I mean, the Inner Huth and Sing I just love
what they're doing, the kind of risk that they've gone
out to live their true selves and chase their passions
and turn it into their purpose, and it's just it's unbelievable.
One of the things that when we were talking about
having these guys on, we were like, who represents everyone
that can go out and burst right, you were special.
(38:15):
These guys are special, but like also, there are millions
Mike Tongs and Cody Levine's out there. We're sitting at
their desk going, I want to work on everything right.
It was so good, so big inspiration and big inspirations
for us because we're definitely not under third inption anymore.
(38:36):
Big thanks to our friends and family, Apanaly, Andy Bowers,
Matt Turk, and Jacob Weisberg. We'll be back in two weeks.
Happy summer everyone. Full disclosure, our opinions, our our own
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
Death, Sex & Money
Anna Sale explores the big questions and hard choices that are often left out of polite conversation.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.