Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Good morning, and welcome to another edition of Community DC.
I'm your host Dennis Glasgow. With the twenty three and
anniversary of nine to eleven coming up this Wednesday, we
have the good fortune to talk to a person who
was affected directly and who did something about it. His
name David Payne, and he is the CEO and co
founder of the September eleventh National Day of Service, and
remember it's nine to eleven Day. Here's my conversation with David.
(00:24):
I hope you enjoyed as much as I did and
the amazing things that he and his team are doing
to help out first responders. Good morning, David, Good morning, Davis.
Well listen, I can't tell you how much I appreciate this,
and we're talking to you on a Sunday morning and
nine to eleven around the corner. I want to talk
to you about my experiences in this a little bit,
but I think the first thing we have to do
as president and co founder of nine to eleven and
nine to eleven Day, what you do? Can you tell me
(00:45):
the origin story about how you came up with this
whole thing.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yeah, I was a born and raised in New York
air although I had moved to California when nine to
eleven it happened. So like a lot of Americans, I
was just getting ready to move for work when my
phone rang and somebody said, turn on the television set,
just like so many of us heard about nine to eleven.
And from that point forward, I was just glued to
(01:10):
my set for you know, obviously hours, days, and even
weeks on end. I think largely in shock, because you know,
I was, you know, I had grown up at a
time of relative peace in America. You know, I was
too young to be drafted into the Vietnam War, and
so I really didn't experience, you know, anything like nine
(01:34):
to eleven until that moment when all of a sudden,
I guess the sanctity of my life and the lives
of some money which just shattered. And all I could
think about, at least in the weeks afterwards, was, you know,
something good has to come from this terrible tragedy. And
I'd had a very good friend of mine, Jay Winner,
(01:57):
who lost his brother Glenn in the collapse of the
World Trade Center tower. And his brother Glenn was an
attorney at a law firm, Hollanda Knight, which was about
a block and a half away from the World Trade
Center tower. But his brother Glenn was also a trained
volunteer firefighter from Jericho, Long Island, and in fact, Glenn
had wanted to be a first responder dating back to
him when he was like three or four years old,
(02:18):
and when his older brother Jay would be out playing
tackle football on the field with his friends, his brother
Glenn would show up and be the quote medic and
literally Glenn used to write to Johnson and Johnson when
he was like five years old requesting that they send
him band aids and stuff, and so it was always
Glenn's life dream to be a first responder, and as
(02:40):
soon as he was old enough, he joined the Jericho
Fire Department ultimately rose to the level of commissioner, and
when nine to eleven happened, Glenn did what he did
in ninety three when the World Trade Center was attacked,
he responded and he came into the city quickly. He
helped the back await his law offices, and then he
(03:02):
met up with the FDNY on Liberty Street and barrot
a medicit and went into the South Tower and Glenn
was in the lobby helping to treat those that were
injured when the building suddenly collapsed upon it and Jay's
family found Glenn's remains were report. You know, we're notified
(03:25):
that they found his remains about six months after the attacks,
with the bared medicit still by his side. And you know,
when I found out about Glenn being killed, I called
Jay up. And this was probably about three or four
months after the attacks. I mean, we'd spoken earlier about
just the loss of Glenn, but I called him up
(03:45):
and I said, I have this idea. You know, what
do you think about all of us joining together and
reaching out to other nine to eleven family members and
seeing if we could spend some time trying to transform
nine to eleven into a day of doing good so
that we were so something good would come from it.
But then we can also sort of redefine it so
that for generations to come, you know, our young people
(04:08):
in America wouldn't learn just about what the terrorists did,
but instead they would learn about how our nation joined
together to help one another and all the goodness that
we experienced juxtaposed to the terrible evil of that day.
And that essentially is how nine eleven Day got started.
And then, you know, Jay and I and many other group,
you know, nine eleven family members set out to Washington,
(04:30):
d C. To try to get it established under federal
law as a day of service.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
And obviously here in the DMV and with the Pentagon,
we obviously have an affiliation with nine to eleven. You know,
back to my day, you know, speaking of just being
watching for hours, I was on the air. I happened
to be doing a sports radio morning show that day,
and of course we turned into a news radio station.
I might have been on the air for eight hours.
I can't remember, but you know, I think, like a
(04:54):
lot of Americans, besides being touched, and don't forget folks,
you know, when you're in a city like Albuquerque, kirk
And Airbase was there, so we saw the military jets
go up, and of course all the regular public jets
were not flying for several days. Of course, sporting events
went down. And I can also remember a lot of
people being very kind to each other in the streets
too for several weeks two, which is something that I
(05:15):
had also missed David that I hope we can get
back those acts of kindness someday. But you know, moving
forward in all those years, and I wonder as you
talk to people about nine to eleven, everybody's got a
different experience and a different affiliation. I have friends in
Edmonton upward of Canada who work in hockey up there,
and one of the hockey scouts, Ace Bailey, was on
(05:36):
the Boston plane. So it's always interesting to know somebody
that knows somebody that you know. With the three to
four thousand people that perish and the horrific tragedy and
what had happened in nine to eleven, there's a lot
of strange that goes, you know, around with it too.
But you have such a direct affiliation, and I wonder,
you know, when it comes to you and your friend
that have started nine eleven, nine to eleven day, what
(05:57):
it's meant to you and how it's affected to you
over these last you know, twenty four years now, twenty three,
twenty four years.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Well, it has absolutely changed my life, there's no doubt
about it. And it certainly has changed Jay's. I mean,
the loss of his brother immediately set him off, you know,
on a different course as well. But you know, I
think for he and I both it just became a mission,
you know, and a determination where we just decided we
(06:27):
weren't going to take no for an answer. We were
going to redefine this day. We were going to take
it back from the terrorists. We were going to turn
it into something good, no matter what. And you know,
it's not as surprising an idea as it seems, because,
as you pointed out, that's the way Americans responded to
the attacks. I was transformed by the way I saw
(06:49):
people put aside their differences and we weren't you know,
red states or blue states. And in fact, in those
early hours and in days and even weeks, I don't
think people were concerned about any of the so called
differences that that you know, we allow to separate us today.
You know, we weren't black or white or anything, and
(07:09):
you know, we were just human beings that were you know,
that shared in this shock about what had happened. But
also what really changed me was that was seeing how
not just in the United States but all around the world,
billions of people just immediately became unified by their shared
compassion and concern for the well being of others. And
(07:32):
then they, of course immediately started to express this innate
goodness that I think we're all born with. You know
that you mentioned kindness, and I saw the same thing.
It didn't matter. I would go to the grocery store,
you know, and pick up some things a few days later,
and everybody just looked at each other differently. I think
we realized how deeply connected we truly are as human
beings on the basis of this goodness that we're all
(07:54):
given at the time of birth. I mean, it's it's
almost like a universal language that we all understand. And
it doesn't really matter where you live, and you know,
we just get the idea that we're fundamentally good at
heart and to me and this may sound ironic, but
I think the ultimate lesson of nine to eleven is
that we fundamentally love and care about each other, despite
(08:16):
the absolutely horrific things that we can do to one another,
on the basis of the thoughts that you get programmed
into our mind, you know, on a day to day basis.
And that's the thing that made me want to change
my life. I mean, I was I was in public
relations at a PR firm in California and that had
(08:36):
an office in New York. And up until that point,
I mean I was just going through my everyday life.
I was working for a lot of really great clients,
Procter and Gamble and Taco Bell, and you know, I
was spending most of my time and energy thinking of
creative ways to introduce a new burrito, you know, things
like that, you know, and then all of a sudden
nine to eleven happened, and that's just all without the window,
(08:58):
and I none of that mattered to me anymore. All
I wanted to do was focus my life on making
a difference in the world, you know, and keeping a
lot of the spirit of unity and kindness that I
experienced in the aftermath of the attacks. That became my
life mission. And it has changed me from the inside out,
not just in terms of the activities of engaging in
(09:21):
nine to eleven and learning how to turn it into
a day of service, all of which were very challenging
and interesting, you know, in their own right, but internally
it turned me into a better person because I suddenly
realized that I, like everyone has, also has that innate
goodness and kindness within me, and that maybe I had
to learn how to try to express that more every
(09:44):
day in my life, not just when a tragedy strikes.
So it changed me, and I know it changed Jane,
and I think nine to eleven changed a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Yeah, And to your point, i'd like to ask you
about that. I have a daughter who just moved to
New York and lives in Brooklyn. She's a filmmaker, and
I've always been so fond of New York. I remember
my first ever visit there was a long time ago
when I went to MSG to watch Mark Messier playing
a hockey game when he was traded from Edmonton to
the Rangers. And I went to all the sites, and
I still have pictures of the World Trade Centers of
(10:13):
me with me lying actually on the cement with the
towers in the back, and it's course eerie to take
a look at now. But you know, I love New
York then and I love it today, and I love
New Yorkers, and I haven't noticed distinctly a change in
New Yorkers overall, but I know that they are super
prideful people. Not that anybody else in America in their
city's not, but I know that touched New York in
(10:35):
a very special way because that was their turf would happen.
It was personal you as a New Yorker, your friends,
and all the people that you put this together as
you advocate and you talk to people, how is it
changing in just in general terms new Yorkers.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Well, I mean, all I think that really happened, honestly,
was that it just turned all of us into who
we already are. That's what I saw in New York.
I mean, I think, and I think that happened across
the country. Certainly, it was very unique and intimate for
people who were there and for people who call New
(11:12):
York their hometown, like I do, you know, because like you,
I mean I I had a deep, sort of intimate
knowledge of the downtown area. I work, you know, just
a couple of blocks from the World Trade Center Tower
for a number of years, and I, you know, I
knew sort of my way around there. I knew where
I could get the best, you know, Turkey sandwich, where
I could find a bench to sit during lunch. I
(11:35):
knew which sort of subway trains to take and which
tunnels I could, you know, access to avoid the rain.
And I even remembered, you know, coming out of the
subway some days on the way to work, and you know,
I'd look up at the World Trade Center Tower. It's
just so magnificent and it was so high that, you know,
there'd be times when the clouds and the fog would
obscure the upper portion of these buildings. That was just
(12:00):
majestic downtown area. And having grown up in New York,
I was born and raised in all a Long Island,
you know, and I just was. I fell in love
with the city very early on, and so when it happened,
it definitely hit me harder than maybe others that aren't, say,
you know, accustomed to or never lived in the area.
But I do think though, that what happened in New
(12:22):
York with New Yorkers was the same thing that happened
in France, or in gand or Newfoundland or in so
many other places around the nation and the world, where
we essentially had a worldwide awakening to who we truly
are as human beings. When we let go of, or jettison,
at least for a moment, the thoughts and beliefs that
(12:43):
separate us as human beings, it cuts us to a
place that is just innate to us, you know, the
soulful side of us, where we're just amazing, wonderful, kind
human beings, you know. And it's hard to imagine that
people are actually good to one another when you see
how much division we have in the world, you know,
the perception of division and the way we treat each other,
(13:05):
you know, and the polarization of our electoral process today.
But I have What nine to eleven taught me was
that that human beings are amazing, wonderful, kind people and
you know, creatures we are. If anything, I became more
optimistic about the future of humanity, not less. So you know,
you would think it would be the opposite. You see
this terrible act of terrorism and evil and destruction and
(13:29):
want and murder. But it taught me that there are
two parts of us. There's what we think and believe
in our mind, which unfortunately at times can corrupt us
and drive us toward doing terrible things to one another.
And then, you know, and that's sort of at the
surface of us. And then but underneath it, you know,
at the existential level of our being, we are all
the same. We're deeply united by the you know, by
(13:52):
what makes us human beings, and you know, the love
and compassion that we're endowed with. It that is embedded
into our little embedded into our souls. And so that
experience seeing that actually happened witnessing it, you know, even
though it was a brief and fleeting moment on nine
to eleven, absolutely sort of I think changed the way
(14:12):
I saw the world. It changed what I wanted to
do in my life. I think for many New Yorkers
who were there and experienced it as well, they may
not be able to say articulated or understand it quite
the way maybe I've come to understand it, but they
know what it felt like. And for many people, maybe
including you and others, we crave for the opportunity to
(14:33):
get back to a time when we behave a little
bit more like that every day.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
So from your website, just to give everybody a little context.
In two thousand and nine, as a result of their efforts,
President Barack Obama joined with the US Congress and a
bipartisan basis to formally designate September eleventh as National Data
Service and Remembrance under a federal law, which I think
is very cool that he did that. I know there
are a lot of people behind that. David, we're at
(14:59):
the halfway point, and I think it's a really great
time to talk about programs, because you do some extraordinary
programs that we want to let people know about So
can you talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Yeah, and you know, just to touching on how it
became a day of service. You know, it was interesting
because when we get to Washington and this was us
and me and Jay alone with other note eleven, you know,
family members, people lost loved ones, later joined by gold
Star families and first responders. We assumed that it would
be a no brainer, you know, that that Congress and
(15:28):
the President would immediately embrace the idea of making nine
to eleven of federal day of service. But it took
eight years, and I think a lot of it had
to do with what we were going through in the
country at the time. You know, we were obviously still
very concerned about whether we were going to be subject
to another terrorist attack. You know, I remember the anxiety
(15:49):
and the fear that existed in our nation. It was
palpable at the moment. And so you know, here we come,
you know, a year later, saying let's turn nine eleven
into a day of peace and doing good, you know,
and I think we were just a little bit ahead
of our time. But as the years went by, you know,
there was just an ever growing amount of interest and
momentum on both sides of the aisle, Republicans and Democrats,
(16:11):
so like who saw this as a way in which
we could keep the promise to never forget You know,
we don't, you know, we don't realize how difficult it
is to keep a promise like that. You know, we
say it at the moment, we say we will never
forget this, and of course President Bush said that right
at ground zero. You know, we're going to never forget this,
and we all want to not forget it. But we
(16:33):
also have to remember now that you know, twenty three
years later, there have been one hundred million Americans that
have been born, and they have no memories of the
nine to eleven attacks. They weren't touched by it, they
didn't witness anything. And so just like Pearl Harbor, you know,
if we didn't intend or try to redefine it, turning
(16:53):
it into something a little broader, a little more optimistic,
more positive, you know, ultimately nine to eleven would be,
you know, become just a day of memorial service. Is
just sort of the way and obscure memorial service and
set of the way Pearl Harbor is observed today. And
so I think people began to understand that if we
(17:15):
could incorporate something good about nine to eleven, you know,
let's keep it a day of remembrance forever, but let's
remember by doing something good that that would allow us
to really grow the day and grow support over time.
And that's what essentially has has now happened. And you know,
a lot of people get confused that or believe that
(17:36):
that that nine to eleven became a day of service
as an act of you know, government engagement somehow, and
and to some degree, we've even heard people be being
concerned about that as if the government should shouldn't have
a role in determining how nine to eleven is to
be remembered. But I think it's important to point out
that it wasn't the government that led the way there.
(17:58):
It was the nine to eleven family and others that
were directly touched by the tragedy that wanted to make
sure that something good came from their lost loved ones.
And they were the ones that asked and you know
and ultimately pressured Congress and the President to formally designate
nine to eleven as a data service under a federal law.
So it's really the it's what the families, many of
(18:19):
the families want to see happen with this day long term,
you know, in terms of our programs. Now twenty three
years later, we organized some amazing activities around the country.
First of all, more than thirty million Americans observed nine
to eleven as a day of doing good in unity,
and that number continues to grow year over year, despite
(18:40):
the fact that you know, we're putting more years between
us and the actual tragedy itself. And we ourselves organize
large scale volunteer service projects and what are now twenty
one cities including Washington, d C. And others, New York, Boston,
places like that that were you know, more directly touched
by nine to eleven, but also all the way across
(19:02):
the country, you know, in San Jose and in Seattle
and Phoenix, in Chicago and Atlanta and Dallas and Houston,
you know, in Denver, you know, and you know, Columbus, Ohio,
just pretty much everywhere. And these projects focus in on
hunger relief. We call them meal packs. And this year
we'll have more than thirty thousand volunteers from all walks
(19:22):
of life that will join together on nine to eleven
in unity and spend the day packing dry, non perishable
meals that will be donated to the local Feeding America
affiliated food banks that serve each of these communities. And
what's amazing is that they are close to six hundred
corporations now that are participating in that nine to eleven
(19:43):
day meal pack program. So September eleventh has literally become
the largest single day of corporate volunteers. And you know,
in American history, you know, there is not another day
where that many organizations are all coming together at that
same moment, you know, to honor and patriot in the
way that they're doing with you know, with this program,
(20:03):
and in aggregate, we're anticipating that we'll pack about eight
point six million meals, drawing nonperishable meals that'll be donated
to Americans who are at risk of hunger. The you know,
if you talk Defeeding America, they'll tell you that there's
well over forty million Americans that wake up every day
and they're not you know, they're not certain where the
(20:24):
next meal is going to come from. It's it's a
significant crisis that was only made worse by the COVID pandemic.
And and so if we can do our part on
I to eleven to help address hunger relief in this country.
Then we feel like we're making a difference, and we're
doing it in the names of all the people that
(20:44):
lost their lives, in honor of the many first responders
of recovery workers that you know bravely race to the
scene and participated in the rest and recovery effort for many,
many weeks and months they're after and even in tribute
to the members of our military and their family, you
know that rose and services and defend our country in
(21:05):
the immediate aftermath of the attacks.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
So at the end of our conversation hearing about data
or nine minutes, will David give the website a couple
of times so you can check that out because there
are a lot of things that he's talked about and
we're just hitting the tip of the iceberg, folks, including
a donate button, and I did want to move over
to that about what you do and funding beside the
donation button and maybe corporate partners, how do you make
your money and where does it go to? David?
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Yeah, so you know we we we raise money almost
entirely through private sources, and that would be through you know,
through donations from corporations and foundations, some of which that
helped to fund our nine eleven day meal pack program.
We also get a lot of donations from just individuals
on nine to eleven that want to you know, want
(21:51):
to remember and pay tribute by contributing to the nine
to eleven data service. And we certainly encourage people to
go to nine to eleven day dot org where they
can all sorts of terrific resources. There. We have an
entire section just for teachers and parents, all sorts of
age appropriate lesson plans, videos, photos, other really wonderful ways
(22:12):
in which young people can learn about nine to eleven
but through the lens of you know, kindness and unity
and doing good. And then we of course have our
donate page where we invite people to make a contribution
of just eleven dollars to help support our program year
over year as much as nine to eleven Day as
a really big national initiative. Today, we're relatively small nonprofit
(22:35):
that depends upon the donations of individuals to keep our
lights on and grow our programs, you know, and these
donations go towards helping to purchase some of the food
that volunteers pack at our meal Pack events around the country.
It also helps to support all the free lesson plans
that we make available to teachers and parents, and most
(22:55):
importantly right now, you know, we're preparing for the twenty
fifth anniversary of nine, which is just two years out,
so twenty twenty six, and we're really hoping that we
can get to the point where we can expand our
programs to even more cities around the nation. So all
of these donations help make a lot of that possible.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
David, like many Americans, I had the opportunity and it
was a must for me to go to the site
and also see Freedom Tower in the memorial service, which,
by the way, folks, is extraordinary, and I imagine that, David,
everybody has a different experience when I went there because
I was on the air that day and it was
a year before my daughter was born, and I've explained everything.
I took her as well, along with my mother in
(23:36):
law and my wife, and it was emotional for me.
I can't really put into words about why it was
and what it was, but there were just some sense
that I felt very strange. I'm glad I went. It's
a beautiful thing a. How do New Yorkers in general
terms feel about the Memorial, Freedom Tower and the new
site and everything.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
I mean, I think overall, I think people consider it
a extraordinary tribute to those that were killed in the
nine to eleven attacks. My favorite time to be there
is the night before nine to eleven, you know, before
they close them the memorial and the museum temporarily for
the actual services that take place the following morning. And
(24:21):
it's just so serene. You know, if you get down there,
usually around sunset or a little bit after, people just
are quiet. You know, they're mingling around on the plaza.
The waterfalls from the two pools that are created that
you know that mark the location of where the original
(24:41):
two towers were, and you're listening to the water from
the waterfall. It's so peaceful. And usually Jay and I
will go down there the night before and we'll walk
over to the place where his brother's name is inscripted
on the on the stone you know that surrounds these
two rules, all the names of all the people that
(25:02):
were killed on that day. A lot of people don't
know that when they go down there and they see
a white rose that is placed in a little hole
by a person's name. It's an indication it's their birthday. Yeah,
And I find that evening before to be so serene
and so peaceful, and I just, I don't know, it's weird.
(25:26):
I feel I feel the souls of the people that
were killed on that day. You know.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
I'm glad you brought that up, because I felt exactly
the same way. You have a much more direct affiliation, Dave,
but I felt exactly the same way.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Yeah. Yeah, It's it's so funny. You just sense their
their presence. Yeah. And you know, and that's not a
spiritual statement. It's just more of a realization that you're
that you're not alone in the universe and that they're here.
They're not here in a physical sense, but their spirit,
(26:01):
their energy is and it's just it and it's a
beautiful thing. It's it's you know, if you really sort
of if you really are really quiet and you're just
sitting there with your eyes closed, you'll feel it. It's
just this incredibly beautiful, peaceful moment. And so I like
(26:23):
to go down there before nine to eleven and spend
just a little bit of time there. So I find
that to be very very I think cathartic and I
think optimistic too, like very hopeful. I feel that. And
then the museum itself. You know, if one has an
opportunity to visit the museum, and I would not recommend
(26:43):
you try to do it to hit you four, nine
to eleven or right around those times that time period,
but there is it is an extraordinary experience. It's an
absolutely beautiful I agree.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
I highly recommend it to everybody to check it out.
The museum's so unreal and it's a part of our history, folks,
but it is an emotional experience for a lot of
people out there. Well, David, unfortunately we only have about
maybe a couple minutes left. Tops, I've got ninety seconds
for you. Did some final thoughts and thank you for
your time. I know you're going to give the website,
but the floors here, sir, and thank you for your
(27:16):
time today.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
You know, for people that are interested in learning about
nine to eleven Day and participating this year, we encourage
you to go to nine eleven Day dot org. That's
a great place to begin. There's are a ton of
amazing resources and information there about the observance, lesson plans, toolkits,
all sorts of things that parents and teachers can use.
And keep in mind that this is not just a
(27:40):
day of volunteering. It's a day of doing good and
helping one another. So there, you know, every good deed accounts.
You can do anything you want on that day, you know,
even if it's just you know, taking a moment to
reflect on what's most important in your life, you know,
and then try to come up with something you could
do to help someone else, and invite your children to
(28:01):
do it as well. Maybe go through their toy chest,
giveaway toys they don't play with, or clothing that they've outgrown,
you know, things like that. Teach them about the goodness
that came from the nine to eleven tragedy. The way
we all join together and put aside our differences. That's
the most important lesson that can come out of nine
to eleven. It's the number one lesson that we need
(28:21):
to pass on to future generations so that tragedies like
nine to eleven don't happen again.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Agreed, And once again, let's give that website just one
more time for people.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Yeah, so visit nine to eleven day dot org. So
that's nine to one one day day dot org for
more information and hopefully well you'll be inspired to want
to make a small donation of eleven dollars to support
our charity.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
I appreciate mentioning. And it's right on the top running corner.
It's yellow, it's as donated, is very easy to check
it out and then listen if you want to learn
about us, and of course the meal packs plan that
David had talked about, teachers and resource center. There's a
lot of really cool information on there for everybody.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
So well.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
I can't tell you how much I appreciate your time, David,
and you as president co founder with your friend and
his loss. I'm sorry it happened. I know it's changes forever,
but it's people like you that how we respond to
tragedies and move forward to turn a scar into a star.
And you guys have done that with so many families
and touching so many Americans. For me and all the
(29:22):
people here in DC where we were affected, thank you
so much for all you and your team do. We're
just so appreciative. Thank you for joining us on Community DC.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Dennis, thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Don't let biased algorithms or degree screens or exclusive professional
networks or stereotypes. Don't let anything keep you from discovering
the half of the workforce who are stars. Workers skilled
through alternative rops rather than a bachelor's degree. It's time
to tear the paper ceiling and see the stars beyond it.
(29:54):
Find out how you can make stars part of your
talent strategy at Tear Thepaperseiling dot org, brought to you
by Opportunity at Work, the AD Council