Let’s Get Married with Tim Gunn

Tim Gunn joins Chelsea to talk about taking no prisoners while fencing, his favorite podcast (👀), and why he’s no longer on Project Runway. Then: A girlfriend and her partner have trouble syncing their sex schedules.  A fashion pro finds out his paycheck isn’t what it should be.  And a caller fighting cancer struggles with how much to give back. 

 

*

Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail]

*

Executive Producer Catherine Law

Edited & Engineered by Brad Dickert

*

*

*

The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Okay, guys, I am officially on my High and Mighty tour.
February nineteenth Madison, Wisconsin. February twentieth is Milwaukee, Wisconsin. February
twenty first, Detroit, Michigan. February twenty second, Rama, Ontario. That's
Canada for those of you who don't speak Canadia. March thirteenth, Cleveland, Ohio.
March fourteenth, Columbus, Ohio. March fifteenth, Cincinnati, Ohio, and then

(00:24):
March twentieth is Denver, Colorado. March twenty seventh, Portland, Maine.
March twenty eighth, Providence, Rhode Island. March twenty ninth, Springfield, Massachusetts.
April tenth is Chicago. I'll be at the Chicago Theater.
April eleventh Indianapolis, Indiana. April twelfth Louisville, Kentucky. April sixteenth

(00:45):
is Albuquerque, New Mexico. April seventeenth is Mesa, Arizona. April
twenty third is Kansas City, Missouri. April twenty fourth is
Saint Louis, Missouri. April twenty fifth is Minneapolis, Minnesota. April
thirtieth Nashville, Tennessee. May first, it is Charlotte, North Carolina.
May second is Durham, North Carolina. May sixth I'm doing
Netflix as a joke festival. I will be in Los Angeles.

(01:08):
That is a new announcement, along with Atlantic City May fifteenth, Saratoga, California,
May sixteenth, Monterey, California. May seventeenth, Modesto, California. And then
June fourth Portchester, New York. June fifth is Boston, mass
And June twelfth is Portland, Oregon.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
And then Seattle is June thirteenth, So suck on that. Everybody.
Go to Chelseahandler dot com for tickets. Hi, Catherine, when
does Yes, Chelsea, how are you?

Speaker 3 (01:40):
We've been?

Speaker 2 (01:41):
I figured i'd speak Spanish.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
I'm in Jamaica right now, so I thought, I would
you know that's apropos of Jamaican's I'm getting all my
country is confused. I figure we just should start speaking
Spanish everywhere because of bad Bunny and let all letting
all these white, cranky people know that it's too late.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
Yeah, my mom, it was.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
This was so funny. My mom's visiting and Brad and
I didn't watch anything with the Super Bowl, and I
told her.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
I was like, yeah, we didn't really see anything.

Speaker 3 (02:07):
And my very sweet mid seventies midda night. Mother goes
you didn't watch Bad Bunny, and then she made me
turn it on and like walked me through all the symbolism,
and it was.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
Just absolutely wonderful to walk me through all the symbolism
because I didn't catch all the symbolism. I never catch
all the symbolism in anything, in movies, in culture and art,
I'm always like, oh what, I'm like, I need someone
to I need a culture guide.

Speaker 3 (02:32):
Yes, did you know the wedding was a real wedding,
the wedding that they showed.

Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yes, well, I wouldn't have except that I read that,
so I wouldn't have known it. So I'm not I
feel smart sometimes and then there are many other times
where I just feel incredibly stupid, So I don't know.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
I'm somewhere in the middle. That's the world we live in.
It's not your fault.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
Yes, yes, I'm excited though, because I have shows tonight.
I'm on my way to Madison, and then I have Milwaukee,
and then I have Toronto Casino Rama.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
Where else do I have this weekend? Detroit?

Speaker 1 (03:06):
That's right, I'm coming to Detroit on Saturday night, So
there's still tickets for that show, so definitely come.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
And there's still tickets for Milwaukee. I have started the
High and Mighty tour. We are on our way. My
listener's better. I better see all of you on tour. Okay,
ladies and gay men.

Speaker 3 (03:20):
Yes, I've gotten so many emails from people who are like,
I'm coming to this show. I'm coming to that show.
So it's really exciting and like say hi to people
when you're at the show, like meet other listeners, meet
other fans, like I think that's one of the most
fun things about going to a show like that.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
Yeah, I know, I love that. I love when my
fans meet each other, become friends. They see I see
that a lot. There's a lot of women that come
by themselves. I'm like, you couldn't get anyone to come
with you, and then they hook up with each other
and I'm like, oh that's nice.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, Well. Our guest today is someone I'm
very excited.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
I know. I know as was I. I was a
very great conversation. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
He is a cultural icon. Who isn't these days? Best
known for his role as mentor an executive producer on
Project Runway and making the cut and he's a former
Chair of Fashion Design at Parsons School of Design and
a New York Times bestselling author whose career has been
rooted in elevating others with clarity, compassion and conviction.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
Please welcome, Tim Gunn.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
Oh my god, Oh my god, Look who's here.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
I'm great. How are you doing? Tim Gunn?

Speaker 4 (04:27):
I'm better for being with you and Catherine.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
You look like a very serious news broadcaster right now.

Speaker 4 (04:35):
Well, thankfully I'm not a news broadcaster.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
I seriously, thank god we're not news broadcasters. I was
just listening to a really interesting podcast. I don't know,
do you ever listen to Karas Swisher and Scott Galloway
like Pivot or any of those.

Speaker 4 (04:48):
Podcasts occasionally occasionally? The only one I listened to regularly
is yours.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
Oh my god, Tim, do you know what a compliment
that is? I love it. I love it.

Speaker 4 (04:57):
That's really true.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
Let's get married, Tim. I feel like we're on the
exact same page.

Speaker 5 (05:02):
You know what.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
I oh, this is what I want to talk to
you about. Well, first, let me finish my thought.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
So I was on my way here today listening to
a podcast and it was just talking about new media
and how you're really kind of more untouchable when you
produce your own thing, you know, and you like on
YouTube and doing Like independent media is now on the
rise because of all of you know, the quashing of
opinions and all this old media. It's like it's so
stale anyway, and it's on its way out anyway. So

(05:29):
that you know, the president going after all that stuff
is just another reason for independent media to rise up.
And like when people like Don Lemon who take to
the streets and some other great examples like Tim Dillon
on the Bulwark and all these different people doing their
own things is really getting a lot more attention. And
I don't know how exactly you monetize that, but there

(05:49):
is a way. So that's that's promising, and that's something
to you know, keep focused on in these days that
we're living in tim Oh.

Speaker 4 (05:57):
These days are quite unbelievable. I just have to say,
I feel very fortunate and very lucky to have my
health and to have shelter and to be here with
you and Catherine.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
First of all, I want to talk to you about
your celibacy. Let's talk about that. That's one of the
reasons why I think we could make it as a
couple because I feel I feel like you know, there's
no leave you alone, there's no pressure, will enjoy each
other's company. We both won't have any qualms about telling
the other person to get the fuck out of our
space when we need to, and we have similar sensibilities,

(06:28):
I feel like, and we don't have to worry about
having sex exactly.

Speaker 4 (06:32):
It's perfect.

Speaker 2 (06:33):
How long have you been, celebate, Tim, I've been in.

Speaker 4 (06:36):
New York for forty two years. Forty three years.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
Wow, So this was a choice that you made. Yes,
tell me about that choice. What will you just tell me?

Speaker 4 (06:48):
Why? Well, I would keep a psychiatrist very busy. I
can say that I have.

Speaker 2 (06:55):
I'm also a psychiatrist.

Speaker 4 (06:57):
You're a good one. I had a very serious nine
year relationship in Washington, DC, and I loved this person
deeply and would have done anything for him. And I
still remember the night that it all ended. We were
in bed watching mash It was a first run and

(07:19):
he said to me, I have no patience for you
any longer. I want you to leave. I had my
own apartment, but I had been living with him for years,
and I left. I drove to my apartment on Rock
Creek Parkway, and I had to pull off because I
was hyperventilating. I was beside myself with self flagellation and

(07:40):
self pity, and it was awful. And this is someone
I worked with, so it wasn't as though I just
would never see him again. And one of the things
that he told me that night was that he'd been
sleeping with just about everything that walked by, and I
had been loyal and faithful to him. He was the

(08:03):
only person I'd ever been with. And this is the
advent of AIDS. It's nineteen eighty two. Wow, And I
thought so. The self pity then turned to completely unbridled
anger because I thought he may have given me a
death sentence. Of course, and I was tested every six
months for ten years for HIV and thankfully I had

(08:26):
a clean slate.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yeah, thank god.

Speaker 4 (08:29):
But whenever I was even tempted to engage in some
something that could become serious with someone, all this would
come back like Niagara Falls, and it would just take
the desire away. And I have to say, being celibate
and being someone who lives alone was a bit of

(08:49):
an adjustment, But now I wouldn't have it any other way.
And COVID and the pandemic and our sequestering brought this
all back for me because we had to stay home,
and I'm probably one of the few people who really
loved it.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
Another thing we have in common.

Speaker 1 (09:06):
This is not a popular thing to proclaim, but I
also loved the beginning stages of COVID. I'm not gonna lie.
I was slightly disappointed when people were told to go back.

Speaker 4 (09:15):
To work again. We aren't kindred spirits. I felt the
same way.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
And we could imagine the funds we could co mingle.
I feel like I'm supporting too many things in my life,
and I'm like, I just want to join up with
someone who also has a robust bank account and we
can just be fair with each other so that there's
not so much pressure on my shoulders.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
So it's probably a better deal for me than it
is for you.

Speaker 1 (09:38):
But I'm just throwing it out there, and you know,
throughout this podcast, I'll continue to remind you of the possibilities.
I'm so sorry to hear about that relationship and what
a horrible ending to a relationship.

Speaker 4 (09:49):
I'll invoke a phrase that I use all the time,
and my mother absolutely hated the phrase. Things happen for
a reason, and sometimes the reason isn't revealed at the moment.
It may not be revealed for days, weeks, or months,
or sometimes even years. But had this relationship not fallen apart,
I would never have moved to New York. It would
never have happened. In nineteen eighty two, when this relationship

(10:13):
was still ongoing, I have been offered a teaching position
at Parsons here in New York, and I said no.
I said, I'm very happy. I have no desire to
leave DC. But a year later, when after my life
had changed, Parsons called again and I said, I'll be
right up, and two weeks later I was living here.

Speaker 1 (10:29):
So like, how long do you think it took you
to get over that relationship to really truly be grateful
to be in your own company.

Speaker 4 (10:39):
To that point, Well, to be honest and pun reflection,
I would say it was the end of that. Those
ten years of being tested for HIV, I thought, Okay,
I have a clean slate. I'm good that Every six
months I would have this bad of anxiety about what
if it took a while. You know, I occasionally relive

(11:01):
it in my head, but it doesn't hurt any longer.

Speaker 1 (11:06):
Right right? I mean, I think I'm asking you this
because so many of our listeners call in, as you
may know, about these kinds of issues. When are they
going to get over something? How do they deal with
such a big loss? And it sounds like you went
in a certain direction and were able to heal from
that and feel like this has been the right decision
for you after a lot of reflection with I guess

(11:30):
COVID reinforcing that.

Speaker 2 (11:32):
But is there anything that you can share.

Speaker 1 (11:35):
With our listeners about coming to grips with a breakup,
coming out of a relationship that was a long relationship.

Speaker 4 (11:43):
I can only reflect upon my own experiences. Really, we
all know that time is a great healer, but the
amount of time that it takes depends upon the circumstances.
It was helpful for me to get out of Washington
because I wasn't seeing him every workday.

Speaker 2 (11:59):
What was it like when you did see him after you,
guys broke up?

Speaker 4 (12:02):
It was completely horrible, horrible. I wanted to I wanted
to kill him, yeah, and I wanted him to hurt
as badly as I had been hurt. He seemed to
be impervious to it, though, so it was just great
to get away. And also moving to New York, I
had this huge learning curve about this entirely new environment

(12:26):
and different social interactions and a completely different academic environment
in which I was teaching. So that was a wonderful
I won't even I won't say it was a distraction.
It was just a new beginning and it was truly new.
So I would say to someone who's been in a
long term relationship that's terminated in some way, it's good

(12:54):
to I want to say, change.

Speaker 2 (12:55):
Your job to another city and change your job. You
can if you look forward, to do either of those two.

Speaker 4 (13:02):
Things, or just get a new living environment, something that
makes you know that things are different in more ways
than just this relationship going away.

Speaker 1 (13:12):
I think what you're saying is the world is so
much bigger than we are in that moment of defeatism,
you know, or broken heartedness, the world is so much bigger,
And it's like sometimes you have to physically take yourself
into a new version of your world so and a
new part of the world geographically to understand that how
big the world is and how small that was, even

(13:33):
though it was massive to you. It's a blip in
your history now rather and because you've made such a
big life for yourself, did you ever make contact once
you hit the big time?

Speaker 4 (13:42):
No? Yeah, god no, I haven't heard a thing. That's awesome.

Speaker 2 (13:45):
That's all fine? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:47):
What's the thing they say about like success is the
greatest revenge.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
Success is the greatest revenge or revenge is a dish
best served cold?

Speaker 2 (13:56):
Yes, yes, I agree.

Speaker 1 (13:58):
I agree with that because by the time you ever
get revenge, sometimes you just don't even care.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
You know, like you don't care.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
You're like, I don't care about you looking like I
remember breaking up with a certain boyfriend and I couldn't
wait until it hurt him, right, you know what I
mean in a way that I was like, wait until
you see how much you've lost. Like I'm valuable, I
get brought everything to this relationship.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
And you fucked it up.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
And like now when I see him, I can see
how much he misses me and how much he cares
for me and respects me. I mean, he doesn't try
to get back together with me, but it's very apparent.
And I don't get any pleasure from.

Speaker 2 (14:37):
That because you moved on, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (14:40):
I'm just like, oh, I told I knew it and
it came true. And I think that's true for so
many of us. You know, by the time you get
what you were looking for, it's a little too late.

Speaker 4 (14:48):
I agree.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
So Tim, tell me, Okay, you have one of the
most distinctive voices in television, so I want to because
I have a distinctive voice. So and when I'm sometimes talking,
I could be on a ski hill, covered in ski
gear with the face mask on, and people will hear
me and be like Chelsea, and I'm like, what the fuck?
I can only imagine how annoying it must be for

(15:09):
you living in Manhattan and going out to restaurants. I mean,
what is it like when people hear your voice and
don't even see your face?

Speaker 4 (15:17):
Chelsea? All this incredible phenomenon happened after I turned fifty.
Oh and that was twenty two years ago. So I
am delighted to have people shout out or say hello.
I consider it to be really a great honor. And
it doesn't not only doesn't bother me, it actually kind

(15:39):
of invigorates me. Oh great, still I've still got something. Yeah,
but it's very flattering.

Speaker 1 (15:47):
Yeah, yeah, you look very sharp today. Also, I would
like to know how what do you sleep in? I
would like to know what Tim Gunn's wardrobe for nighttime is.

Speaker 4 (15:56):
I sleep in a white V necked shirt and J
krue pajama.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
Bottoms, okay, with a cigar in.

Speaker 4 (16:05):
Your hand, maybe a Manhattan.

Speaker 1 (16:10):
I like the idea of falling asleep with a Manhattan
in one hand and a star and sleeping with your
arms over your head all night to protect to protect
your property. I want to ask you, what do you think?
I hate trends? Okay, I hate fashion trends. I fucking
hate it, and I know you do, and so I
I what is the what? Let's think about what you

(16:31):
think is the most annoying fashion trend of the last
five years?

Speaker 4 (16:35):
Well, for me, it's easy to say. Okay, though the
more I say it, the more ubiquitous this item becomes.
And I know it's kind of hackneyed now, But in
God's Great Kingdom, how did leggings become a pant?

Speaker 2 (16:53):
I know?

Speaker 4 (16:53):
How did it happen?

Speaker 2 (16:54):
I agree?

Speaker 1 (16:55):
I agree, I don't understand. I don't remember when people
used to get dressed up to go to the airport.

Speaker 4 (17:03):
Yes I miss those days.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
Yes, I mean that was a little bit before my time,
but I remember watching planes, like you're a little bit
older than me. But when I remember watching like love
Boat and those kinds of things, and you saw the
way people would travel for vacations. And you don't need that,
Like you don't need to be in a three piece
suit to get on an airplane. I'm not suggesting that,

(17:26):
but be decent and respectful of others, Like don't have
your skin out, you know what I mean, Joe.

Speaker 3 (17:32):
Why do you want your skins watching the airplane?

Speaker 6 (17:34):
No?

Speaker 1 (17:34):
No, no, yeah, don't be in flip flops on a plane,
Like there should be some sense of decorum. I think
I've approached almost every airline and offered to make an
etiquette video, but I think because I'm such a divisive figure,
they're like, no, you're not the one.

Speaker 4 (17:48):
Yes you are.

Speaker 2 (17:49):
I would take it.

Speaker 4 (17:49):
I'd take advice from you any day.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
Thank you, thank you. And every flight attendant asks me
to do it. They're all like, please, Chelsea, do something,
and I'm like, I'm here on this flight during the
next five hours. If you have any issue use with anyone,
please I'll handle it. I like to intervene and be
an interloper in situations that.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
Don't involve me at all. That's a bad fashion trend.

Speaker 1 (18:09):
I also think when trends change every six months, it's
like when people take that seriously, I find that very annoying.
It happens with language as well.

Speaker 4 (18:19):
I call people who chase trends fashion victims. Yes, yes,
And I'm always saying to people, don't chase trends unless
it's something that really appeals to you, that pulls at
your heart strings. And also you and Catherine know it's
fashion's pendulum and it's retails pendulum. They want us to
buy stuff, so they've got to keep changing things up.

Speaker 1 (18:40):
What do you think the best fashion trend of the
last five years has been.

Speaker 4 (18:44):
I don't know that there's been one. Honestly, it's been
the slopification of dressing ath leisure rising. I don't understand it.

Speaker 1 (18:59):
Yes, leisure is gross because it's also it's intimating that
you just worked out and also are in.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
The public walking around, even at the.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
Hotel I stay at in New York. And next time
I come to New York, we're going out for a drink. Tim,
I don't know if you drink love it, but you
can watch.

Speaker 2 (19:14):
Me drink do you drink?

Speaker 4 (19:17):
Do I drink?

Speaker 2 (19:18):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (19:18):
You drink right, please, I'm a hairshet being an alcoholic.

Speaker 1 (19:22):
Okay, great, great, we're on the same another thing. Okay,
so we're yeah, we're gonna go. I'm gonna give you
my MAUD number because we need to have a drink.
As enjoyable as this is, I'm going to want more
of you. Oh at leisure where, yeah, that intimates that
you are are infers that you.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
Came from or work at.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
And when I stay at my hotel in New York
that I stay at, I only stay at one hotel.

Speaker 2 (19:42):
I love it. It's the best hotel.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
I wish I could say with the name of it
to promote them, but I don't want any more people
there anyway. They have like a club lounge, you know,
where you get to go and have breakfast or cocktails
or whatever you're in the mood for dinner or lunch.
And even when I go to the gym, which is
on the same floor as that club lounge, if I
go into the breakfast room or the club lounge in
my outfit from working out, it is only to retrieve

(20:07):
a water or get a green jruice. I would never
sit down in those chairs after a workout. I find
that repugnant. I find that people who were walk around,
especially when you're a woman, because you have fucking wet
vagina states swamp ass, Yes, swamp ass, and walking around
in public after a workout. You have to go home,
do charse a and then go out into the street

(20:29):
and the leisure where that you see on planes.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
Same goes for that.

Speaker 4 (20:32):
Your basic agree.

Speaker 1 (20:33):
You're basically saying I worked out, even though you know
most people are wearing it without working out too.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
It's like I worked out and now I'm ready to relax.

Speaker 4 (20:42):
I have to share an anecdote. I work out with
a fitness trainer, usually once a week, sometimes twice. We
work out in Central Park and I wear my workout clothes,
which I only own because of Jason and the fact
that I work out with him. So I was walking
from my apartment on the Upper West Side to the
park and a woman stopped me and she said, how

(21:05):
dare you? I said, I'm sorry, She said, how dare
you wear these clothes? This is exactly what you tell
people not to wear. And I said, I'm going to
work out. I am not going out to lunch. I'm
not going shopping. I am working out.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
Yeah, yeah, exactly everything. The lines have been blurred about
a lot of things. Thank god for your voice. Now,
you were in the room when Heidi Klum put on
her famous worm costume. Yes, I don't know why I'm
putting up quotation marks. I don't know what that's about.
But you were there, and at any point during that
did you think what the fuck are you doing?

Speaker 4 (21:44):
The entire time? The entire time, I thought, what the
fuck are you doing?

Speaker 2 (21:47):
And did you advise her? Did you tell her.

Speaker 1 (21:50):
What you thought?

Speaker 4 (21:52):
Well, it was too late. I only believe in telling
people about things that they can change. She was already
many hours into this costume. And what I really wanted
to ask is how are you going to move in
this thing? You're going to have to writhe on the
floor like a like a.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
Worm, like a worm.

Speaker 4 (22:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (22:10):
It wasn't pretty.

Speaker 1 (22:11):
Yeah, no, it wasn't. It was very silly. A lot
of people liked it. What do you think about dressing
up for Halloween?

Speaker 4 (22:17):
Well, I don't do it, but i've for the last
five six years, and this will be the sixth or
seventh year I've been a host of the New York
public libraries. Halloween party. Oh nice, And you have to
come dressed as a literary figure or a book or something,
so it stimulates the brain. And I love it, and

(22:38):
people become they get very very ambitious.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
Well that's very different. That's different. That's not a Yeah,
that's not an.

Speaker 1 (22:44):
Adult like high level prostitute slash nurse party, you know.

Speaker 4 (22:49):
No.

Speaker 2 (22:49):
Yeah, And I don't rent appeal to me.

Speaker 6 (22:51):
No.

Speaker 1 (22:51):
And if you could dress up as an author, then
you could basically just do whatever address the way you're
dressing anyway, or as a writer or as a literary figure.

Speaker 2 (22:59):
Tell me what your favorite fashion city is in the world.

Speaker 4 (23:03):
Oh, New York really, And I say that because this
city accepts you however you want to dress. It's very
very democratic in that way. And you'll stand at a
street corner with thirty nine other people and no two
people are dressed alike. And I love that about the city.
They're fashion Capital's Paris, London, Milan Rome that they tend

(23:27):
to be somewhat formulaic, and people at a certain levels
tend to all look the same, right, And I enjoy
I enjoy the fact that the city is so incredibly diverse.

Speaker 2 (23:41):
Yeah, that's a good point.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
I guess, you know, at a certain level, like the
wealthiest people all kind of start to dress the same.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
Yeah, there's a uniform almost right, agreed, Yeah that makes sense.
So what was it like when Project Runway.

Speaker 1 (23:55):
Approached you and you became after your first season, the
biggest breakout star.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
How did that hit you?

Speaker 4 (24:01):
Well? Do you know the story of how it all happened?

Speaker 2 (24:05):
I don't.

Speaker 4 (24:06):
I was chair of the fashion design department at Parsons.
It was January of two thousand and four. The producers
called me to say that they wanted to come to
my office and speak to me about this reality show
they wanted to do about fashion, and my response was
the following. I said, fashion reality. I said, this industry

(24:26):
has enough trouble without that, and they said, well, just
let us come. We'll only require ten minutes. So I
googled them this is what I'm always grateful for Google,
and found out that they were the Project green Light producers.
So Ben Affleck Matt Damon a reality show about making movies,
and somebody thought, well, they have a lot of integrity

(24:47):
and a seriousness of purpose. So they came and I
became instantly seduced when they said that they wanted to
work with real fashion designers, not pick people at rad
them off the street and say you, well, make you
a designer. And I got excited, and then I didn't
hear anything for months, and then there was an abrupt

(25:07):
phone call saying, we really do want to work you
through it. Now. This was in a capacity as a consultant.
My role on the show did not exist. It was
in no one's vocabulary. So two days before the designers
were arriving, the producers asked me whether I would be
willing to go into the workroom and ask them what
they're doing, and I said, well, it's how I've spent

(25:28):
most of my life, so sure. But I never dreamed
i'd be in the cut of the show. I thought,
as long as they had the designers responding to me,
no one needs to see me, no one needs to
hear my voice. And accordingly I didn't go to the
premiere party. I thought, well, if I'm not in the show,
it'll be rather humiliating. And if I am in the show,

(25:48):
what is this show? Is it? Sexual antics? In the
apartment building where the designers are staying, because I will
also tell you our first five seasons were on Bravo
when we were taping season one. Well, no one certainly
knew who I was, including Bravo. So I'm standing in
the real and metaphorical dark of the of the Parsons

(26:10):
auditorium where we were taping the fashion show and the
judges deliberation, and this woman standing next to me I
didn't know, turned to me and said, who's going to
want to watch this? This is like watching paint dry?
And I said to her, you were corroborating my worst fears.
So after she left, I asked someone who was that

(26:33):
grumpy gus and they said, oh, that's Lauren's Eelasnik, the
president of Bravo.

Speaker 2 (26:39):
Oh how funny, I know, Laura, Yeah for sure. So
what happened?

Speaker 1 (26:43):
Are you are able to talk about what happened with
Project Runway or is that not?

Speaker 2 (26:47):
Do you not want to talk about that?

Speaker 7 (26:48):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (26:48):
I can talk about anything with you.

Speaker 2 (26:50):
Okay, Yeah, what happened?

Speaker 4 (26:51):
Are you thinking of something specific?

Speaker 2 (26:53):
Well, I mean you're not doing the show anymore.

Speaker 4 (26:56):
I'll be perfectly transparent about it. I was invited to
the party.

Speaker 2 (27:03):
I see.

Speaker 4 (27:04):
My agent called the producers to say, we understand, how
do you signed up? We haven't heard a thing about
Tim and they said we don't want him.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry.

Speaker 4 (27:15):
Yeah wow. I mean it was devastating at first, but
as I said earlier, things happened for a reason, huh.
And I feel extremely lucky to have had nineteen seasons
of the show sixteen with Heidi, and I have a
beautiful Emmy sitting on my kitchen counter. Yeah, so no complaints.
I feel very very very lucky.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
Great. Great.

Speaker 1 (27:38):
I mean, listen, you got a lot out of that show,
and that show got a lot out of you.

Speaker 2 (27:42):
So many people, especially queer people.

Speaker 1 (27:44):
Have such a role model in you, and you've set
such a high standard for so many queer people and
regular people too. But you really are somebody that so
many queer people look up to. I wonder when you
were growing up, did you have any one you looked
up to?

Speaker 4 (27:58):
It was so hard And I grew up in the
fifties and the sixties. There were the decorators in the
Doris Day movies who were not role models I wanted
to have. There was Paul Lynde as Uncle Arthur un Bewitched.
Everyone was very flamboyant, and I thought, that's not who
I am. But I will also say it wasn't until

(28:19):
my late teens that I came to terms with my sexuality.
I knew what I wasn't before then, but I didn't
know what I was, and no role models in that
regard were non existent.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
I have to say yeah.

Speaker 4 (28:35):
And also, homosexuality was considered a mental illness until the
American Medical Association or the American Psychiatric Association, whichever it was,
removed it from the list in nineteen seventy two. So
the whole time I was growing up, it was thought
that this is something that's extremely bad and needs to

(28:56):
be cured.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
It's unimaginable to think, I mean, even now that we're
in this kind of administration and all of these things
are up in the air, it's just unimaginable to think
about a time growing up that like what a muzzle
that puts on so many people?

Speaker 2 (29:10):
What a muzzle? You know?

Speaker 1 (29:11):
It is to have a government tell you something is
illegal that you that is a natural feeling in your body,
like that is a it's perfectly natural to have someone
say no, that's that's not true.

Speaker 2 (29:21):
You're not real, your feelings are invalid.

Speaker 1 (29:24):
We decide I can't get over that, Like I can't
get over government's interference and choices like that.

Speaker 4 (29:31):
I can't.

Speaker 1 (29:32):
It's just crazy. It's like, you don't want an abortion,
then don't get one. You don't want to be gay,
then don't be gay. You don't have to be gay.

Speaker 2 (29:39):
No one is making people be gay or transition. Nobody.
That's not true. It's not true.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
It's all just it's all crazy, you know. I wonder
what you think about this. I have an older gay
gentleman in my life, and I remember, like a couple
of years ago, we were in London and he was
bemoaning the whole trans movement, saying that it's really hurtful
to include them the LGBTQ community, And I was like,
wait a second. You guys went through this yourselves, like

(30:06):
in the nineties.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
What are you talking about? How could you possibly not
want to invite everyone in?

Speaker 1 (30:13):
So I'm interested to hear your take on that, which
I guess is you obviously support transitional people.

Speaker 4 (30:20):
Oh I do. I will say, though, I'll confess something
that I actually stand by. This happened years ago. I
was asked by a fashion publication how I feel about
trans women walking the runway during fashion week, and I said,

(30:41):
and I stand by it still, I said, I'm not
a fan. And the reason I'm not a fan is
because the fashion industry is always looking for a muse
who defies a woman's shape. And you know, we've had
eating disorders, and we had lengthening that was happening in
the Eastern Europe, anything to make the model look longer, taller, skinnier,

(31:06):
and in the case of a male who's transitioned to female,
there are no hips. And that was my objection. I'm
all for. I'm a huge supporter of trans individuals. I'm
about a young trans woman I used to fence with
has since this new administration gone undercover. But it's the

(31:28):
intimidation of this administration.

Speaker 1 (31:30):
As if it's not enough of a struggle to deal
with an issue alone that you need. You know, I
have so many friends who have children who are trans
and the worry and the fear and the constant daily
fear of something happening. You're already scared when you put
a child out into the world. It's already scary. It's
scary to have your kids go to school and possibly

(31:50):
get shot. It's scary to get you know, have your
kids be out in public when you don't. When we
live in such an unsafe country right now, and people are,
you know, using violence to express themselves. Imagine having that
muzzle be put on you like as if, as if
you can choose to not have those feelings. It's just
it's so sickening on every level. On a much lighter note,

(32:11):
I had no idea you were a fencer.

Speaker 4 (32:14):
Oh yeah, wow. I started fencing very late in life,
at age sixty two, so ten years ago.

Speaker 2 (32:20):
Oh damn, that's so cute.

Speaker 4 (32:24):
It's a fantastic sport. It's a workout for the body
and a workout for the brain. Now with a tremendously
long history, it's wonderful.

Speaker 2 (32:31):
Wow, yeah, that is cool.

Speaker 1 (32:33):
I need to learn a little bit more about fencing.
I'm not educated enough about fencing.

Speaker 4 (32:37):
Well I wasn't either, Chelsea. It's been a tremendous education.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
What got you interested in fencing?

Speaker 4 (32:43):
I was being interviewed by a very dynamic young man
and I didn't know anything about him, and he shared
with me that he's a three time Olympian and a
silver medalist in fencing, and that he had just opened
a fencing club on the Upper side it's at the
Upper West Side, that's my neighborhood. So I went to
visit him, and I was enraptured with this activity, this action,

(33:09):
all of it, including the uniform. And I became his
eighth student. He now has over four hundred. Yeah. So
I was there at the inception of this club, and
it's just it's very, very thrilling. It's also well, I

(33:29):
have to tell you. On Sundays, we all arrive at
the club, I mean those who want to participate, sorry,
or this is our church. In fact, it's in a
synagogue the club. So you bout everyone at the club
on Sunday, regardless of age or gender. And I'm old,

(33:51):
I'm slow, I know it. And this is a speedy sport,
at least saber fencing is. I've only won one bout
and it was against a nine year old girl who
was about three and a half fay till Aria Aria.
And I have to tell you, I in the middle
of this bout, and you have to score five points

(34:13):
to win. In the middle of this about I thought,
should I throw.

Speaker 2 (34:18):
It to her?

Speaker 4 (34:19):
Should I? But I have this this crazy lust for winning.
I thought, I've never been this close to actually winning this,
and I thought I can't do it. So after I won,
she burst into tears. I give her a hug, I
go to her mother, and I apologize at any rate

(34:41):
I persist, but I Aria is still She left the
club and I see her occasionally in the neighborhood.

Speaker 2 (34:51):
For Aria. For Aria, you know what, it's a great
story for both of you.

Speaker 3 (34:58):
I have a quick question about Like, since you've been
working out, you've been fencing, obviously your musculature has changed.
You know, you've got your traps, they're poppin'.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
Have you had to have your suits tailored?

Speaker 4 (35:10):
Well? I buy off the rack, but they are tailored. Okay, Okay, yeah,
I don't do custom Okay.

Speaker 3 (35:16):
And has that changed, Like as your body's changed with
working out and putting on more muscle.

Speaker 4 (35:21):
Well, my trainer, Jason knows that I'm not interested in
building muscle. I'm more interested in retaining and gaining strength.
And I started practicing intermittent fasting. I only eat once
a day to keep everything off. Because the older you get,

(35:41):
the less human tabolize. So even if you're just following
the same routine, the same diet, you get bigger. And
I can't afford a new wardrobe.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
I mean you look good.

Speaker 1 (35:52):
So yeah, Okay, we're going to take a break and
we're going to be right back with Tim Gunn. And
now we're back with Tim Gunn and we're going to
take some questions. Which is I'm assuming it's going to
be your favorite part of this show.

Speaker 3 (36:08):
Well, our first question comes from Ross. This one's just
an email. He's a steer Chelsea. My new is Ross
and I'm a twenty nine year old gay man living
in NYC and working at a multi brand fashion showroom.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
My job is amazing.

Speaker 3 (36:20):
I get to meet new people, travel to Paris four
times a year, get free clothes, and work directly with designers.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
Wow, I work sounds great?

Speaker 4 (36:30):
Yeah, what's the problem.

Speaker 3 (36:32):
So I work on the women's team, and I have
two coworkers who have quickly become some of my best friends.
I've been on the team the longest two and a
half years, and the other two are roughly the one
year mark. I recently found out that I make about
twelve thousand dollars less than they do for the exact
same job, same title, same workload. I'm starting to feel
resentful of my job and the people I work with

(36:54):
and do not know what to do. Do I ask
for more money, set an ultimatum, do I just leave?
I feel like everyone I talked to has a different perspective.

Speaker 2 (37:01):
And solution, and I'm feeling lost. Would love your advice, Ross, Tim,
Would you like to go first?

Speaker 4 (37:07):
Well, I have a fair amount of experience with this,
to be perfectly honest.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
Yes, this is interesting. This is the reverse of what
I normally hear.

Speaker 1 (37:16):
And I'm wondering if this is a gay male thing,
like are gay men getting paid less than women?

Speaker 6 (37:21):
Right?

Speaker 3 (37:22):
Because the women in this situation are.

Speaker 4 (37:25):
In my experience. My experience goes back to Parsons, where
I was for twenty four years, the last seven and
a half of which I was chair of the fashion program.
Prior to that, I had been teaching, and later in
my term at Parsons, I had an additional responsibility as
associate dean, and as associate dean, department chairs reported to me,

(37:46):
for instance, and full time faculty, so I knew what
people made and the department chairs made a fair amount
of money, certainly more than I made. But I was
an associate dean it was completely different. So then I
become the chair of fashion design. There are two hundred
and thirty students, it grows to more than eight hundred.

(38:08):
I'm making so much less than the other department chairs,
and I know why. It's because they're moving forward my
salary and they can only add a certain percentage to
it from when I started, and new people coming in
were always making more money. There were full time faculty
at Parsons in my department who were making more money

(38:29):
than I was, so revenge can be very sweet. I
was going through a reappointment review, which happens supposedly every
five years, but mine had been postponed because of the
department growth and things changing in the department rather dramatically,
and that was my doing with the faculty, so I
was up for reappointment review. And when I was associate dean,

(38:52):
I oversaw reappointment reviews, so I knew intimately what one
had to do. And I kept being told that I
had to bring the dean the broomstick of the wicket,
which of the west, and I kept doing it until
we reached an impasse where I thought, I can't do this.
I'm not able to do what you want me to do.

(39:13):
But I'm said it to myself. At the same time,
the CEO of Liz Claiborne had come across the street.
We're across the street from each other too, and drop
this incredible surprise in my lap. He wanted me to
be his first hire and his chief creative officer over
forty six brands. And I had this wonderful revenge moment

(39:40):
with the Dean where I made an appointment to see him.
I brought him an envelope and he asked me, is
this what I want? And I said, I am absolutely
certain it's what you want? And what He had been
asking me for commendations from fashion educators in Europe, and

(40:04):
I thought I know one person, but he said, well,
I'm very disappointed. I need three, and I thought this
is total bs. So I loved watching him open the
envelope as he realized that this was my letter of resignation.
And I got back to my office and the president
of the university called and was screaming, you owe me

(40:26):
a year, You owe me a year. I said, you know,
I've been here for twenty four years. You owe me
a bull shanz But what's the moral here? I don't
believe in ultimatums. I believe that this young man should
shop himself around the industry and look for another opportunity,

(40:48):
because it's demoralizing to know that people who came in
after you are making so much more.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
But also there's no harm in asking, is there? I mean,
why not ask first and say I know that they're
making more more than me. So like did they did?
He say they came in after him?

Speaker 6 (41:03):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (41:04):
Yeah, like a year and a half.

Speaker 3 (41:05):
I mean, and you could do both.

Speaker 1 (41:06):
You could ask and the shop or absolutely to what
Tim is saying, but also ask you never know. I mean,
I mean, they've already indicated that they don't respect you
because they're paying these.

Speaker 2 (41:15):
Two women more.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
But there is no harm in asking, And you know,
it's good. It's a good I think it's a good
exercise to ask.

Speaker 2 (41:21):
For what you are.

Speaker 7 (41:22):
Well.

Speaker 4 (41:22):
I don't disagree at all. In fact, I agree. It's
nice though to have something in your back pocket. Yeah,
because until I started making more money in a matter
of speaking, because I want you to know the first,
when I'm still a persons, I was making almost nothing
off a project run money. So it wasn't as though,

(41:42):
oh I have this additional incime and I'm double dipping.
It's nice to have something in your back pocket, just
in case, because I always thought if I lose my job,
I can't afford my rent. I mean, I'll really be destitute.
So it's a better fuck you if in fact the

(42:03):
negotiating meeting, if it goes awry, you can just walk
and just say, okay, I'm out of here now. And
you know what's interesting, going back to my situation at Parsons,
they could have offered me more money. It wouldn't have
to be as much as Liz Claiborne was offering. If

(42:23):
it had been twenty thousand dollars, I would have stayed.
Was because I enviisioned my entire life remaining at Parson
or my working life remaining at Parsons. There was no
effort towards that. None. I'll also tell you that Diane
Van Persenberg is a dear friend, and she was a
board member at Parsons. And after the call from the president,

(42:44):
I received a call from her and she said, you
can't do this. You've done so much work in the
fashion department, You've repositioned it. And I said, Diane, let
me cut to the chase, and I told her how
much I was making, and she said, without missing a
beat leave now. It's good happen, but there was never
an effort to pay more.

Speaker 1 (43:03):
Right, Yeah, of course, because people are going to get
away with whatever they can get away with, right.

Speaker 3 (43:08):
Right, Ross, Well, you have your answer and good luck.
Our first caller today is Sydney and she's twenty eight
Sydney sweetye, and.

Speaker 2 (43:16):
I would like to talk to her. Actually, she says,
you're Chelsea.

Speaker 3 (43:20):
I've been with my boyfriend for five years. Our life
is pretty good, except for our sex life. We started
dating when we were both twenty three years old and
have hit the many young adult milestones together, job and career,
bouncing grief, living with a partner for the first time,
losing friendships, et cetera. At the beginning, our sex life
was fun, but after the one year mark, it just
fell off. He does not show outward interest, even though

(43:42):
he says he thinks about it often. He has expressed
his lack of insight on what he thinks about his sexuality.
He grew up Catholic but no longer practices, and was
taught that it was a bad thing, so he hadn't
taken the time to discover what it could look like
for him. He told me that It was honestly easier
in the beginning when we were casually hooking up because
love was an involved yet. But now that he loves
and respects me, the way he cares doesn't align with

(44:04):
how he viewed sex. Then I figured once we settled
into real adult life that part would work itself out.
But now we barely have sex. I've tried asking pointed questions,
giving him space, tried telling him to man up, tried
the nurturing approach. We've tried therapy.

Speaker 2 (44:19):
I've asked if.

Speaker 3 (44:19):
He just never wants to have sex, because then at
least I would have an answer, and nothing has worked.
He does have OCD and says things like I want
it to be spontaneous, but I also want to feel
clean and prepared. He acknowledges that those two things clash,
and I can tell he knows he's disappointing me. We
talk about it a lot, but I am tired of
talking and I just want to fuck like the girl
I used to be in the past. There's a lot

(44:40):
of love in this relationship despite this. We live well together,
have a great group of friends, have future goals, and
we're touchy with each other. But it's cute, not sexy.

Speaker 2 (44:47):
I do love him.

Speaker 3 (44:48):
Dearly dating and men in general are both scary as
fuck and if a guy ticks all the boxes, but
one should we really break up over this?

Speaker 1 (44:54):
Sydney Hi, this is our special guest him gun Hi Hi, Sydney.

Speaker 2 (45:00):
So Tim celibate. I'm celibate in the moment.

Speaker 1 (45:04):
Catherine probably at sex on her way here today with
her husband. He also works on the podcast and they're
very horny, especially in the car. Okay, so you're not married?

Speaker 2 (45:15):
No? Right? And how how long have you guys been
together in total? Five years?

Speaker 1 (45:20):
I mean, sex is a pretty big box to check
for you. I started out with Tim being celibate because
that's not important to him as like as it is
to you, and for me it would be important in
a relationship because that would be one of my primary
reasons to be in a relationship, would be for the sex.

Speaker 2 (45:37):
I mean, that would be a big component, you know
what I mean.

Speaker 1 (45:39):
I would expect to be having sex on a very
regular basis. Otherwise I can hang out with my girlfriends.
So it's not just one box that he's not checking.
It's basically one of the kind of foundational aspects of
a relationship is sexual contact and that can mean a
variety of things. But if you're not satisfied, then that's

(45:59):
not going to change. And if you've been down the
road of therapy, you've been down the road of trying
different things and you know, doing different things. Like are
you ready to actually like leave a relationship over this?

Speaker 2 (46:13):
I don't know.

Speaker 6 (46:14):
Like I think that my views have changed a little
bit because it doesn't feel as important as.

Speaker 2 (46:19):
It used to. And we do.

Speaker 6 (46:21):
We do have sex, it's just not maybe as often
as I would want. And when we do have sex,
it's really good, Like I'm having a good tis great.
No part of me is thinking like maybe I need
to I think I've been pushing him so much to
get to my level and like maybe I need to
think about me for a while.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (46:42):
Yeah, I would think that, you know, listen, that doesn't
ever work in relationships when we're trying to force something
on somebody else, It doesn't work that way. It's kind
of like you change your behavior and people change their
behavior because of your change and your behaviors. That's what happens.
So I would definitely say to do that and focus
on yourself. Is there any world in which it would
be acceptable to you and or to him to have

(47:04):
sex outside of the relationship.

Speaker 6 (47:06):
No, not him.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
He's been cheated on before, like in the past.

Speaker 6 (47:10):
I think that that would never be like he would
never be comfortable, right.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
Okay, well then you have that answer, so you're not
going to do that, So okay, so your options are
to stay in the relationship. I think, why don't you
start with this instead of making like some decision about
your relationship, why don't you just really pull back the
pressure mode and really catch yourself, like really start focusing
on all of the attributes of.

Speaker 2 (47:34):
His that you do appreciate and that you do love.

Speaker 1 (47:36):
Remind yourself on a daily basis, write him down every
morning the three things you love about him? Write that
down every morning, Like what do you like about him today?
What was the highlight of your day with him? What
was a great moment that you had with him? And
do that for a month to just really get like
a catalog of where you are in this relationship and
if this is something worth fracturing the relationship or if

(47:57):
it's something you can live with.

Speaker 2 (47:58):
But also.

Speaker 1 (48:01):
That if you do pull back, you are going to
get a different response.

Speaker 2 (48:04):
From him. Definitely.

Speaker 1 (48:06):
Nobody wants to be pressured and felt, be bade to
feel guilty, especially when it's about them performing.

Speaker 6 (48:13):
I think if I like gotten my dom er, he
would really appreciate that well.

Speaker 3 (48:18):
And that is another big question, is like is there
a world in which, like he is, it's not about
his pleasure necessarily, but like you're in the mood and
he can pleasure you. You guys can do that together
and then like he's off the hook, like he doesn't
have to perform in that way.

Speaker 6 (48:33):
Yeah, I think he would be happier if that was me,
if I was the one that was just like it's time,
I think. But I've never been that person, so well.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
That's another option. I think that's a great option. It's
a really good solution. And even though that was.

Speaker 1 (48:46):
An option until you guys just brought it up so
you had the answer to your own question, why are
you calling you.

Speaker 6 (48:51):
Well, I don't know how to be a domb ah.

Speaker 2 (48:54):
You don't know how to be am. Have you watched
Dying for Sex? Oh?

Speaker 1 (48:57):
Yes I have? Okay, great, you can do what she did.
I mean that was you know, that was it? You
can say hey, I'm coming home. I want you to
go down on me like I've had a long day,
let's go. I'm gonna go take a shower, whatever, And
then you could go down on me for twenty minutes
or thirty or a fucking hour, like you make the
rules like that. So there's two options you can and
you can try both of these approaches. You can pull back,

(49:20):
like let it, you know, give it some space. That's
talk about sex before you get into your dom era.

Speaker 2 (49:26):
Give it a few months, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (49:28):
Just pull back, don't pressure him, don't make sex a priority,
just you know, just do your thing and.

Speaker 2 (49:34):
See where that takes you.

Speaker 1 (49:35):
If in a couple of months nothing has changed, then
you I think you should propose that you and learn
about it, read about it, go online and read all
you can. I mean most people don't start out that
way as doms. They learn about it and they're like, oh,
this sounds like a me. I just listen to a
great podcast about this woman who is domb and I
was like, oh, she's like an extreme marathon her and

(49:58):
she just like loved I mean, well she was into
BDSM too so, but she was extreme marathon and she
loved the pain in her body that she felt from
like hurting herself and hurting herself, and she wanted to
feel that in the bedroom and she wanted to feel
This is a little bit different than what you're talking about. Obviously,
it's another extension. But and I was like listening to
this podcasts. It's that New York Times podcast that talks

(50:19):
about relationships, and I was like, oh, I have a friend.
I've sent it to my friend who's an extreme marathon
or she's like, I'm not into this shit, don't send
this to me.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
But it was interesting.

Speaker 1 (50:30):
She found out she didn't like it, but you know,
she tried it and that was BDSM. So she was
really trying to like, you know, be in pain and
hurt herself, which is not what you're describing.

Speaker 2 (50:38):
So there's a delineation.

Speaker 1 (50:39):
But yeah, I would say give try some different things
to get some different results.

Speaker 6 (50:43):
Definitely, I agree.

Speaker 3 (50:45):
Is he in any kind of treatment for his OCD.

Speaker 4 (50:49):
No.

Speaker 6 (50:50):
I think we hit a kind of a wall in
our therapy sessions and we're going to go to do
kind of individual for a while. I think it's time
to stop that part and do some self work.

Speaker 2 (51:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (51:02):
I think that's a good plan, because you know, if
this is sort of a something that's caused by OCD.
Just like getting a handle on some of that for
him and getting some tools might be really helpful in
this area as well as other areas.

Speaker 6 (51:13):
Yeah, and I think for me, like I'm way too
tuned into his tendencies of just like the way he
likes things and so like, if I see like him
dissatisfied in his environment, it also pulls me out of it.
But that's also not my responsibility. So I've kind of
had a hard time, Like.

Speaker 1 (51:32):
That's something to bring up in therapy because that's just codependency,
you know. So yeah, talk to your therapist about that,
and just and like do what I suggested, give everything
a decent amount of time, give it a month, give
it two months, and then and see if anything changes, and.

Speaker 2 (51:45):
Keep us posted.

Speaker 1 (51:46):
Okay, okay, okay, bye, thank you bye, thank you bye.

Speaker 4 (51:52):
That was genius advice.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
Oh Tim, stop it.

Speaker 1 (51:56):
I mean, have I been more compatible with any guests
that I've ever had on? Oh Mar, everything that you said? Honestly, Hi, Dug,
I have my dog here. I wish you could see him.
He's so bad, so good looking, and he's so stylish.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
She's very sweet. He is stylish. He's not that sweet.

Speaker 1 (52:12):
Actually he was sweet to me today, which women women,
but men He's like, no thanks, which is I wonder where.

Speaker 2 (52:20):
That comes from?

Speaker 4 (52:21):
Is he a certain breed?

Speaker 1 (52:22):
Yeah, he's a chow chow and he's all black, so
I haven't had a black chow chow yet. So he
is gorgeous.

Speaker 2 (52:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (52:31):
Well.

Speaker 3 (52:31):
Our second caller today is Sarah and she is wondering
about purpose and her subject line is how much purpose is.

Speaker 2 (52:37):
Too much purpose? Great question.

Speaker 3 (52:40):
Dear Chelsea and Catherine, thank you so much for putting
your time and energy into this podcast. I'm writing to
ask about purpose and more specifically, how you identify what
your purpose is and how to know how much time
and energy you want to put into a specific activity.
A bit of background, I'm currently being treated for a
stage four metastatic colon cancer. Last year, I was diagnosed
with stage three colon cancer after or what I thought

(53:00):
was going to be my forty five year old preventive
care colidoscopy. Instead, the next months included surgery followed by
twelve rounds of chemotherapy over six months. I thought that
would be it, but three months after finishing chemo, my
early detection surveiling indicated that the cancer had returned. More
testing confirmed metastases in a lymph node, and I was
put on another course of chemo for another six months.

(53:21):
I currently have a couple treatments left to go before
they determined next steps. During the time of shock and
fear of the recurrence, I came across researched back to
Anti Cancer Living book and my husband and I read it.
We made lifestyle changes and took on a mantra of
moving forward by saying yes to new opportunities, like selling
our house and moving into an apartment in the French
Quarter in New Orleans and taking a last minute trip
to Las Vegas to see Beyonce. All that said, in

(53:44):
the ten days between my chemo treatments, I feel better
than ever and I have in my adult life. On
those days, I'm operating at one hundred percent, and I
realized before my diagnosis I was consistently at seventy five percent.
This experience of being a cancer patient, which I still
find hard to write or say out loud, has left
me asking what is my purpose in this? I've learned
so much about the importance of getting kolonoscopies as soon

(54:06):
as you can navigating treatments and finding paths to feel
good that I want to share, but I'm not sure
how much time and energy to put into the sharing?
Is sharing with close friends and family enough? Do I
want to write more of this down and share it
with my broader community? How much time and energy do
I want to put into this? Any guidance on how
you decide what is the right amount of time and
energy for you to put into a project or purpose

(54:26):
would be much appreciated. Love all your work, but especially
this pod which I often put on during chemo treatments
to drown out the folks blaring Fox News in the
Infusion center. Love you, Sarah Ah.

Speaker 1 (54:38):
I can't even imagine having to deal with that and
then listening to Fox News. Jesus Hi Sarah Hi, beautiful
human being. This is our special guest, Tim gunn oh
Hi Dam Sarah.

Speaker 4 (54:51):
You are a beautiful human being and quite a hero.

Speaker 2 (54:53):
I mean just that letter alone. Listen.

Speaker 1 (54:56):
I love this question because you are You are living
proof that you need to be living.

Speaker 2 (55:04):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (55:04):
While you're here, live live it up. I love to
Vegas and went to go see Beyonce. I love that
you gave up your house about an apartment in the
French Quarter, like, these are things that you do to
live like and I understand that there's the purpose sense
of this question. I understand completely what you mean. How
much are you allowed to be selfish in like you know,

(55:26):
under the umbrella of selfishness and just do your own
thing and like take care of yourself and how much
do you need to give back? I would honestly say,
with everything that you've been through, it is really the
most important thing is to take care of you and
your happiness and the time that you are here to
enjoy yourself as much as you possibly can. You've been

(55:46):
through hell and you've handled it with a plum. I'm
sure there have been very dark days, and I'm sure
there have been lighter days, but a heavy it's a
heavy burden to bear, and I think what you're doing
is perfect. The fact that you're contemplating means that you're
thinking of others during such a time where you know
your health is at risk. And I just want to say,

(56:07):
whatever you feel moved to share to do, outreach to
help and share your experience to others, then do that.
But you don't have to adhere to a certain set
of guidelines that are just that are arbitrary. You know
what I mean, You don't have to you don't.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
Have to help other people.

Speaker 1 (56:26):
You actually really have to help yourself because by helping yourself,
the need to help others is almost kind of like
it's just a natural progression of things that are going
to happen. You know, people see you carrying yourself in
a certain way. Even at when you're getting your chemo,
people see you know, people can go in there and
be down and out, and you going in there and
having a positive attitude and being hopeful or being optimistic

(56:49):
or being kind is already showing and demonstrating something to others.
And as far as you sharing, I really would just
say you are the number one priority, and whatever excess
or extra time you feel like you have, then you
could go and do those things. But by no means
this is not your job to educate people in cancer.

Speaker 4 (57:07):
Tim what do you think, Well, I'm reflecting upon something
Sarah that you wrote about writing. I think you really
should keep a diary chronicle your journey, even if it's
one hundred words a day. I think it would be
purging and cathartic for you, and it's something tangible that

(57:30):
you can also share if you choose to do so.
But I think the most wonderful thing about writing, and
I'm a writer, so I do this myself. One of
the most wonderful things about writing is you wrap your
brain around how to articulate the feelings that you have
and it can just be extremely helpful and can give

(57:50):
you a lot of insight to things. But I am
completely blown away by your courage and your tenacity and
your will to live. It's it's extremely inspiring.

Speaker 7 (58:03):
Thank you, Thank you all for all of that. I
really appreciate it. It's helpful to hear that like encouragement
of just like what do I like? What am I feeling?
And do that and like one thing at a time.
And I think, to Tim's note, Chelsea, no, you've mentioned
this a lot. Like when I do write, I do
a gratitude list and I try to make it a

(58:26):
like a long list, so then I have to get
into like little like little things that you wouldn't think about.
And I kind of have a mantra of just like
you know I'm living today, I'm living today, Well what
you know, I'm living for, and then I kind of
fill in the blank, which kind of helps, just like
every day be like, like you said, appreciative of like, oh,

(58:48):
you know I have this day and what's beautiful about
the day.

Speaker 2 (58:52):
Well, here's a question for you too.

Speaker 3 (58:54):
There are a lot of people obviously listening to this,
so you're already helping them by like a reminder to
get your call and ask av like go in for check.
Because you've learned so much. Is there anything that you'd
say to our listeners about what else they should know,
what else they should be screening for.

Speaker 7 (59:07):
Yeah, I would say, you know, like I said, I
am somebody that's like, okay, follows the rules. So I
was like, I'm forty five, I need to get my colonoscope,
so you know, talk to your doctors about that. And
I would also say, you know, as I thought, oh,
I don't have any symptoms, I'm going to be fine.
And then when it happened, I could kind of look

(59:27):
back and see like, Okay, there were changes happening, and
I was kind of saying, Oh, it's just stress or
it's just this or just that. So it'd say, you know,
if you feel something changing or different, like ask your
doctor and just talk to them and like ask questions
because you know, if we would have you know, you

(59:48):
could say what if, But if like I would have
gone in maybe a year earlier, it might have been
a different situation. So just listening, I think, listening to
our bodies and when we something feels different or not right,
asking those questions.

Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
Thank you so much, Sarah, Yeah, Sarah, thank you so much.
And like again back to the purpose. I think a
lot about my purpose is like I think a lot
about just spreading light. You know, like I've been going
through a really rough time recently, and every morning I'm like,
and this is immaterial stuff, you know, stupid stuff, but
just a fucking emotional toll. It's taken on me, and

(01:00:25):
I am just like every morning, I'm like, Okay, try again.

Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
Today, try again to be light.

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
To be other people's light, Like get out of your
own problems and be other people's light, like demonstrate light.
And that's not to say that's not what I'm saying
to you. That's what I say to myself. But you
can do the same thing with you with your situation,
to demonstrate grace, love, gratitude to all of the people
that you come into like contact with and make that

(01:00:52):
a daily practice, and that's there's purpose in that that's immeasurable.

Speaker 6 (01:00:57):
Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
Yeah, so we wish you well, sending you lots of love.
Thank you for appreciate it.

Speaker 7 (01:01:03):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:01:04):
Okay, bye, Sarah Banks. Okay, we're going to take a break.
Tim and I are getting married and we'll be right.

Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
Back and we're back with gun What if I changed
my name to Chelsea Gun? I love it, Chelsea Guns.

Speaker 4 (01:01:25):
I could be Tim Handler.

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
Tim Handler.

Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
Yeah, that sounds more melifluous. Actually that's got a nice
ring to it.

Speaker 4 (01:01:31):
Tim.

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
Okay, Tim, this isn't all.

Speaker 4 (01:01:33):
Actually listen to this, Chelsea. What we could be gun
Handler Chelsea.

Speaker 1 (01:01:40):
And Tim gun Handler and that you have to use
both of our names when addressing either one of us.

Speaker 7 (01:01:44):
I like that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:45):
Yeah, to get your your concealed carry person.

Speaker 1 (01:01:48):
Okay, Tim Gun, this was absolutely delightful. I loved having
you on. Please come back anytime you want, and thank
you for sharing everything that you shared today.

Speaker 4 (01:01:58):
Oh well, thank you for thank having me on the show.
And I love being here with you and Catherine and
I would love to return.

Speaker 2 (01:02:05):
Okay, Well, we'll definitely have you back.

Speaker 4 (01:02:08):
Can't wait.

Speaker 5 (01:02:09):
Word of the Week Bilingual edition. Our first word of
the week is du charse verb Spanish to shower. Du
charsee is Chelsea's Spanglish for you'd better shower your swamp ass.
If you're wearing ath leisure, du charsee. Our second word
of the week is bon chance, Franglish for good luck.

Speaker 2 (01:02:34):
Bon chance is a perfect.

Speaker 5 (01:02:36):
Way to wish someone luck if you're a refined gentleman
like Tim Gunn.

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
Bon chance.

Speaker 1 (01:02:44):
Okay, guys, I am officially on my high and mighty tour.
February nineteenth, Madison, Wisconsin. February twentieth is Milwaukee, Wisconsin. February
twenty first, Detroit, Michigan. February twenty second, Rama, Ontario. That's
Canada for those of you who don't speak Canadia. March thirteenth, Cleveland, Ohio.
March fourteenth, Columbus, Ohio. March fifteenth, Cincinnati, Ohio. And then

(01:03:08):
March twentieth is Denver, Colorado. March twenty seventh, Portland, Maine.
March twenty eighth, Providence, Rhode Island. March twenty ninth, Springfield, Massachusetts.
April tenth is Chicago. I'll be at the Chicago Theater.
April eleventh Indianapolis, Indiana. April twelfth Louisville, Kentucky. April sixteenth

(01:03:29):
is Albuquerque, New Mexico. April seventeenth is Mesa, Arizona. April
twenty third is Kansas City, Missouri. April twenty fourth is
Saint Louis, Missouri. April twenty fifth is Minneapolis, Minnesota. April
thirtieth Nashville, Tennessee. May first is Charlotte, North Carolina. May
second is Durham, North Carolina. May sixth, I'm doing Netflix

(01:03:50):
as a joke festival. I will be in Los Angeles.
That is a new announcement, along with Atlantic City May fifteenth, Saratoga, California,
May sixteenth, Monterey, californ worn May seventeenth, Modesto, California, and
then June.

Speaker 2 (01:04:04):
Fourth Portchester, New York.

Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
June fifth is Boston, mass And June twelfth is Portland, Oregon.
And then Seattle is June thirteenth. So suck on that, everybody.
Go to Chelseahandler dot com for tickets.

Speaker 5 (01:04:18):
If you want advice from Chelsea, write into Dear Chelsea
podcast at gmail dot com. Dear Chelsea is a production
of iHeartMedia.

Speaker 3 (01:04:25):
Follow Chelsea on all socials at Chelsea Handler and find
Katherine on TikTok at flash Cadabra.

Speaker 5 (01:04:31):
Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brandon Dickert executive
producer Catherine Law.

Speaker 3 (01:04:36):
Find full video episodes and minisodes now on Netflix, and
get tickets to see Chelsea live at Chelseahandler dot com