Life is Lifey with Sarah Shahi

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Okay, guys, I am officially on my High and Mighty tour.
March thirteenth, Cleveland, Ohio. March fourteenth Columbus, Ohio. March fifteenth, Cincinnati, Ohio,
and then March twentieth is Denver, Colorado. March twenty seventh, Portland, Maine.
March twenty eighth, Providence, Rhode Island. March twenty ninth, Springfield, Massachusetts.

(00:21):
April tenth is Chicago. I'll be at the Chicago Theater.
April eleventh, Indianapolis, Indiana. April twelfth Louisville, Kentucky. April sixteenth
is Albuquerque, New Mexico. April seventeenth is Mesa, Arizona. April
twenty third is Kansas City, Missouri. April twenty fourth is
Saint Louis, Missouri. April twenty fifth is Minneapolis, Minnesota. April

(00:44):
thirtieth Nashville, Tennessee. May first is Charlotte, North Carolina. May
second is Durham, North Carolina. May sixth, I'm doing Netflix
as a joke festival. I will be in Los Angeles.
That is a new announcement, along with Atlantic City. May fifteenth, Toga, California.
May sixteenth, Monterey, California, May seventeenth Modesto, California, and then June.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Fourth, Portchester, New York.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
June fifth is Boston, mass And June twelfth is Portland, Oregon.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
And then Seattle is June thirteenth, So suck on that. Everybody.
Go to Chelseahandler dot com for tickets. Okay, Hi Catherine,
Hi Chelsea.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
Where in the world are you?

Speaker 2 (01:25):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:25):
Today, I'm in Toronto. I had a show last night
in Ontario. I had a weekend full of shows kicking.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
Off our tour.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
Well this wasn't a kickoff, but I had a really
fun weekend.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
Megan Gaily opened for me. Not kickoff, but still early yeah,
still early.

Speaker 1 (01:41):
The tour has been so fucking fun as usual, and
we're having a great time. And I'm about to go
meet my cowboy at the airport because we're going away
for my birthday.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
Oh yay, Oh yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:52):
I see.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
I thought that makea trip was the getaway.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
This is a different That was his birthday. That was
his birthday. Girl, I'm not going to Jamaica for my birthday.
That's for someone else.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
Is it bad to date another Pisces? Is he also
a Pisces?

Speaker 2 (02:05):
Now he's an Aquarius?

Speaker 3 (02:06):
Okay, well right, that's probably fine.

Speaker 2 (02:08):
I don't know much about it.

Speaker 1 (02:09):
I don't know much about it either, I mean honestly,
but luckily enough people in this.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
World keep telling me about it.

Speaker 4 (02:15):
Great.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
So yes, we're on the beginning of a very big adventure.
So I am ready to rumble.

Speaker 3 (02:20):
Yeah, I'm happy for you. All I've done the last
two weeks is watch Olympics. So I don't have much
to tell other than it was such a good one.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
Oh yeah, the Olympics. I've been such a good one. Yeah,
it was.

Speaker 3 (02:31):
There was so much like women supporting women. Did you
see the slalom where the Italian woman won and there
were two people who had been tied for gold, two
women who had been tied for gold, and when the
Italian woman won by almost zero point seven seconds, the
other two women like came in fell to their knees
and were like, we're not worthy, We're not worthy.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
It was such a beautiful moment.

Speaker 3 (02:52):
I was like, of course women would do that. That
was just wonderful.

Speaker 2 (02:55):
That's nice.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
It was definitely definitely great vibes, great vibes for this Olympics.
So many wins, so many exciting things happened. Yeah, It
was really really heartwarming and in perfect time in our
country where we can remind people of the good stuff
about America rather than absolutely minus the fucking US men's
hockey team celebrating with Cash Battell like a bunch of

(03:17):
toxic assholes. Boo minus that part, Okay, Like I honestly
if oh also, I just want to add I have
about two weeks off and then I have March seventh
in Vegas, and then I have three shows in Ohio.
So I want people in Ohio to know I am
coming to Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
That's March thirteenth, fourteenth, and fifteenth. So I will be
back stateside amazing. And this is all new material, right,
somebody was asking me. I was like, I think it's
all new matures. Of course, it's all the new tour.
It's a new tour. Yeah, it's all news.

Speaker 4 (03:52):
So if you saw her last time, go see her
again exactly.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
Anyway, we have a very fun guest today who is
from Second Life on Netflix and The l Word. She's
got a new book. It's called Life Is Lifey the
a disease navigating Life's messy middle. And you can also
find her in the upcoming season of Hulu's Paradise and
the upcoming sequel to Red White and Royal Blue. So

(04:16):
please welcome actress and author Sarah Shahi.

Speaker 4 (04:20):
Hi Sarah, Oh my god, Hi stereo alltogether now, Hi ladies,
Hi que How are you? I'm well, how are you?
Where are you right now? Because that background is heaven.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
I'm in Whistler, Canada.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
Oh that's where I have my winter chalet.

Speaker 4 (04:43):
I love that.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yeah, where are.

Speaker 4 (04:44):
You not in a winter chalet? I'm in the Oaks
of Sherman.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
Oh that's so romantic.

Speaker 1 (04:53):
It sounds like something out of Hamnut the Oaks of Sherman.

Speaker 4 (04:58):
By the way, I saw you Critics Choice, and you
are so fucking funny. I know I'm like the millionth
person to tell you that, but I was. I was
so excited to do this a just because I've been
an admirer for a long time, but especially after seeing
you at Critics Choice, I was like, this is just
going to be wonderful. Thank you, Universe, Thank you.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
I appreciate that.

Speaker 1 (05:21):
And you can imagine my surprise when I was reading
your book and came across a chapter opening with one
of my quotes, one of my favorite quotes of all time. Actually,
I read it and I was like, oh, this sounds
and then I saw my name.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
I'm like, this sounds very familiar.

Speaker 4 (05:36):
That's so funny. I yeah, you know what. I'm like
a walking bumper sticker. I love to talk and just
like a little bite sized phrases. And I saw your
quote and I loved And you know, you've been so
open about your journey with heartbreak and relationships in the
past that listening to you talk about that really warmed

(05:56):
me up and opened up a side of me towards
you that I I hadn't felt before. So I've just,
like I said, I've always just followed you. And then
whenever I was using quotes and I saw that one
and then this came through, I was like, oh my god,
she's my new best friend.

Speaker 2 (06:14):
I know. I love it.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
I really enjoyed your book because I think, first of all,
it's going to be great for all of our listeners,
because we have so many women that are listening to
this and they're on a lot of them are married,
and a lot of them are in marriages that they
probably are thinking about getting out of. Just taking the
temperature of the world that we live in today. So
this is a really beautiful book that talks about these

(06:37):
changes and how to handle them with grace and a
plum and how not to beat yourself up about the
decisions you make, and as a great stark reminder that
you are the most important person in your universe and
if you don't take care of yourself, nobody else is
going to. So like a lot of these themes, I think,
you know, I know, I've written books that cover a

(06:58):
lot of these themes from a you know, female perspective,
but not necessarily a marriage perspective.

Speaker 2 (07:04):
So I want to talk to you first.

Speaker 1 (07:05):
I want to talk a little bit about you know,
you talk about leaving a marriage, your your ex husband.
You filed for divorce or asked for a divorce, like
right when the lockdown started for COVID. Yeah, and you
have and you have three children, a set of twins
and another child. So tell us did that impact your decision?
First of all, because obviously, when you're thinking about divorce,

(07:26):
as you say in your book, you're thinking about it
for a long time. It's not something you just blurt out.
But when you did blurt it out, I felt such
a relief in the way you described your relief, like
finally you've said it. It's out there. You can't take
it back, and it feels so good to.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
Just unload, right.

Speaker 4 (07:45):
It was like a big exhale. Yeah, you know, it's
it's tough. I feel that there are a lot of
unhappily married women out there, and we are so used
to this rhetoric where we have to come last, where
we have to put everybody first, and if we want
something that's larger than the life that we're living, that

(08:05):
we should feel ashamed or we shouldn't want that. And
you know, for me having children, you know here this
is another thing. It's a lot of people they stay
because of the children, and then they get a divorce
when the kids are in college. And I've spoken to
so many people like that, to which they always say,
we knew our parents were unhappy. We wish they would

(08:26):
have gotten it sooner. Staying in it for the kids,
Like you think you're doing the noble thing, but at
the end of the day, what are you modeling for
your children? You know, it's like wanting to go after
the life that I wanted for myself and also seeing
what I was modeling for my kids. I was like,
this needs to give me strength, and it did give
me strength. I pictured my daughter in my situation, and

(08:48):
I was like, would I be okay if she were
living out this version of my life? Would I be
okay if my sons were in a relationship where this
is how love was modeled and reciprocated. And the answer
was no to all of it. So as much as
it sucks, as much as you know, nobody gets married

(09:09):
thinking about their divorce, it was something that I was like,
I owe it to my children to show them a
mother who was happy, who was thriving, and who has
the guts to go after her dreams. So yeah, if anything,
the kids kind of propelled me into it. And you know,
like you said, this isn't a decision that comes overnight.

(09:31):
The demise of a relationship is never just one person.
It's two people, and it's you know, it's a downward
slope for a while. So I tried to use the
justification of let me stay in it for the kids,
or maybe I should do it tomorrow after dinner, you
know what I mean. It's like you just you try

(09:52):
to find those excuses, but at the end of the day,
there just comes a point where it's like a switch
gets turned on and you're like, I cannot keep doing
this to myself anymore. The pain of staying is greater
than the pain of leaving.

Speaker 3 (10:07):
Well, and we do get questions like this a lot
from listeners. I think it's almost harder in that sort
of situation where it is the slow descent into unhappiness
then like he's a monster, right, The decision to leave
is much more difficult when it's not a monster, you know,
it's just you're not as happy as you could possibly be.

Speaker 4 (10:25):
And also there's a lot of love there. You know,
when you're married to somebody for a long time and
you build a life and children and a home and memories,
and you know, there's just there's a lot of love,
and that love doesn't just go away, you know, even
if you want a divorce. It just that was the
other thing that was really interesting to me to explore

(10:45):
when all this happened, is where does that love go?
Where do the pictures on the wall live? What do
I do with the ring? Like all these things that
you don't think about right until after the fact. So yeah,
I'm happy that I get to sort of share my
experience with everybody.

Speaker 1 (11:04):
Yeah, and I think it's very I love what you
said about the kids, because that's everybody's excuse. Oh, we're
staying together for the kids. I can't tell you how
many people say that to me, men and women alike.

Speaker 4 (11:12):
Yeah, it's and.

Speaker 1 (11:13):
It's like, that's not your If that was happening to
your own kid, you would not want them to tolerate
that situation or stay in that situation.

Speaker 2 (11:21):
And I mean something else that's.

Speaker 1 (11:23):
I find fascinating, and I'm sure you did too, be yourself,
is that you were filming Sex Life at this time,
which was a mega hit on Netflix.

Speaker 2 (11:32):
I watched three episodes of it yesterday.

Speaker 1 (11:35):
And the fact that this was coinciding and like the
parallel to the character on the show who's unhappily married
and kind of reminiscing about them, not kind of, but
totally reminiscing about an ex that she had. First of all,
you're having so much sex on the show, So congratulations
on that victory.

Speaker 4 (11:52):
It's been so long now, I've been single for about
a year. I don't even remember how it works anymore.
I'm like, do your arms go off? Like what do
you do? But yeah, I did have a lot of
sex on that show.

Speaker 2 (12:03):
How fun, like how it was fun.

Speaker 4 (12:06):
It was so much fun. It was you know, it
was one of those opportunities that you know, it really
was lightning in a bottle with that show. And we
started filming that show. Let's see it was it was COVID,
So it was about five to six months after I
had filed for divorce we started filming that show, and
as the world knows, I ended up with my co star.

(12:28):
And you know, the idea for the book really came
from the fact that when the show came out, it
coincided with the news of my divorce, and women from
all over the world like I didn't, you know, expect
to be on this platform. But because of the show's
topics and not only was it about a woman finding

(12:51):
the courage to go after what she wants, but it
was also very sexually empowering for women to speak up.
There were so many women that wrote to me and
they were just like, I've never had an orgasm before.
How do you be vocal? And I was like, Wow,
that's sad, because that's a God given birthright that we
all have to experience this kind of pleasure. You know. Meanwhile, viagra,

(13:11):
something that makes a limp dick hard, like just flies
off of everyone's tongue like it's every day vernacular. But
if we talk about sex, orgasms, uterus progesterone, you know,
hormonal differences, it's like we have to do it behind
closed doors. And I really want to be part of
the movement to change that. But yeah, people wrote to
me from everywhere like how did you have the guts?

Speaker 2 (13:32):
You know?

Speaker 4 (13:33):
And also how did you bag the like hot young
guy on the show? You know? So it was just
a space I found myself in and I was like,
let me put all of this somewhere that it can
live and it can serve as like a bible for
women who want a second act that's maybe better than
the first.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
And I think that's one of the best best plot
parts of the book, is talking about how the second
act can be so much more rewarding than the first
act of your life, especially if you're a mom with children,
especially if you're in an unhappy marriage. I know it's
certainly true for me and I don't have children and
I've never been married. Just really smart decision making on
my behalf, but especially with regard to my personality.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
Like that just wouldn't have been a good fit.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
And I can't tell you how much more joyful and
confident and happy, and the bet the sex that I'm
having is so much better than the sex I was
having in my twenties.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
It's like, yes, all women, hold on tight.

Speaker 1 (14:28):
I promise you. We are here to send a message
that life gets better. I mean, it is kind of
hard to take a self help book seriously from somebody
as hot as you, so I mean I would say,
oh wow, how people would look at I mean, people
might think, oh, wait, what does this woman know about?
And I want to say, like, it's like when people say, oh,
you're a celebrity, you have nothing to worry about, You're rich,

(14:49):
you don't you know, it's none of that matters.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
We're all going through the same shit.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
All women are experiencing the same experiences, and I think
it's really it's nice to hear from a whole different
spectrum of women about their experience in this life.

Speaker 4 (15:05):
Yeah, and I also feel too, It's like, you know,
I feel like everybody comes to the next chapter of
their life based on where they were last and also
childhood trauma, like I know, for me, you know, it's
like being single for the first time in my life
this last year and also throughout my relationship dynamics. My

(15:29):
childhood trauma really played a part in it. I mean,
I thought I was healed, you know, I thought I
had been through the therapy. I sat with the Shamans,
I meditated for five hours. I went into the desert
like I have no more problems anymore. And it's fascinating
the way these issues. You know, and I'm somebody who

(15:49):
believes that you attract partners that will help you achieve
your highest growth. Whether or not you look at it
as an opportunity like that and you learn from the
lessons is up to you. But being able to to
look at the impact my childhood, my abandonment issues, my
self worth, like it doesn't matter what somebody looks like
on the outside, it really is the inside. And that's

(16:12):
why I feel and this stage in my life and
you probably feel this too. It's like you've you've done
so much work, you're so confident, you know you're worth,
like you know how you take up space on this planet,
and you feel so good about that that you're not
willing to compromise for someone else.

Speaker 1 (16:29):
And you come to the realization that the right people
are going to appreciate that and who you are and
who you've grown into the woman you've grown into.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
You stop selling yourself.

Speaker 1 (16:40):
And you start realizing that anyone worth their salt will
recognize how great you are.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
You know, like, that's right, We're not performing anymore.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
I'm not performing my personality for a guy that I
want to like me. I'm asking myself, do I like you?

Speaker 2 (16:54):
Right?

Speaker 4 (16:55):
Right? And by the way, the other thing that I've
come to is if it doesn't work out or they
don't rescive, fine, Like, it doesn't mean I'm not good
or I'm not worthy or I did something wrong. It's
just not an alignment. And then you become open for
somebody who is an alignment. So yeah, it's just so
much more rewarding to be at this space in life
than the one before.

Speaker 1 (17:20):
Something else I really liked was you talking about, you know,
your acting getting offers for the kind of same types
of roles, and you were kind of over it.

Speaker 2 (17:29):
You're like, you're very prescriptive.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
I don't want to keep doing this, and so you
stopped auditioning and you told your agents like, I'm not
doing I'm not going out for these roles anymore. And
you even got offered things that you turned down and said,
I'm not doing this. I'm just gonna wait until something
that is right and that serves me comes along.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
And I really like, I love that.

Speaker 1 (17:47):
Because I think so many people need to hear that
that you have to do things that make you happy
in order to have a magnetic attraction to the things
that are there that you're supposed to go through in life,
like when you are focusing on the negative and everything
does become negative, and when you choose to make yourself
happy by doing the things that make you happy. For me,
that skiing, it's reading books, it's spending time with my friends,

(18:10):
and it's also getting time alone. When I know that
I will infect others with my negative attitude if I'm
around them, you know, to retreat, like I've learned all
these things about myself that make me a happier person.
And you speak about that like finding out what it
is you like about yourself and what makes you happy
to do, and in the moments where you're not feeling it,
to actually exercise your right to practice the things that

(18:32):
bring joy to your life, because that is going to
up your frequency and up your vibration.

Speaker 4 (18:37):
Yes, you are. I feel like you're probably like me
in a sense that you believe in energy and frequency.
You've used that word a couple times now, and you know,
and I've done so much research in this space, as
I know you probably have too, to know that it's
not even woo woo. It's just pure science. It's quantum
physics that you will only attract that which you are

(18:58):
in the vibrational state of When you're doing things that
make you happy, you will continue to attract things that
make you happy. When you are doing things that you
know make you feel sort of less than or not
so great, You're just going to keep attracting things like that.
And I did. And you know, it's interesting because I'm
now in this I know, I've said it a couple
times now, like I'm single for the first time in
my life. And there was a period of time where

(19:19):
I was just like chasing, I was chasing Dick. I
was just like, somebody, tell me I'm hot, and tell
me I am worth.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
I'll tell you your heart right now.

Speaker 4 (19:32):
The second and and and I was constant and nothing
was working out. And it was because I didn't have
the self worth. I was coming from a place of insecurity,
not wanting to sit with myself, and when I started.
This is another thing in the book I talk about,
which just follow your happy, Like, instead of putting attention
on the things that you don't have, start chasing the

(19:54):
things that make you happy. Follow your happy one by one,
step by step, even if it means hanging out with
your friends, even if it means canceling on your friends
in favor of like a night alone, having the extra cookie.
Little by little, the past starts to appear, and the
things that you want to draw in, the things that
are aligned with you. It's just science. You'll just start
attracting all of that stuff in. So that's something that

(20:17):
I still have to remind myself of to this day.
It's gotten easier. But yeah, follow your happy when in doubt,
when you don't know what to do, stop focusing on
the things you don't know because you're not meant to
know it right now. That's why you don't know the answers,
and instead focus on the things that bring you joy,
no matter how small they are.

Speaker 1 (20:35):
And let's talk about the transitional period, like when once
you admit to your partner that you want out of
the relationship. And I think a lot of people, women
especially are get very consumed with that piece, like what's
it going to feel like we're not going to have
a partner, And it's like it's kind of like a
scarcity issue more than an actual Like you're not looking

(20:56):
at the big picture.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
You're not looking at six months down the road.

Speaker 1 (20:59):
You're going to be so grateful you made this decision
and that you were strong enough to make that decision.
So I think that transitional period is a real kind
of hiccup for a lot of people that they can't
get past.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
So can you speak a little bit about.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
Your experience and when things started to feel aligned again
and when when you started to really feel grateful and
happy about that decision that you made.

Speaker 4 (21:21):
You know, I feel like the reason, you know, people
don't speak up, or women don't speak up, is because
we've been conditioned from the time that we're very young
to not experience pain or that pain is bad. You know.
I talk about this in the book. It's like when
you scrape your knee as a child, your mom gives
you a double scooped ice cream clone you put a
band aid on it, kiss it, make it better, don't

(21:42):
cry anymore. And so we have this you know, story
running in our minds that we are not supposed to
experience pain. So that keeps us from doing the hard
stuff sometimes. But as I learned, you know, especially when
the most painful thing that I did was get a divorce,
was pain is just an emotion like joy. It's just

(22:03):
an emotion like happiness or sadness or grief, and we
don't normalize it enough and we try to escape it
when really the only way out of that is in
So each day for me look different. One day I
couldn't stop crying, and I would be playing a game
with my children, and all of a sudden, my cheeks
would flush and I would get really really hot, and

(22:27):
tears would start like prickling in my eyes, and like
what is happening? What is happening? And I would sit
with it and I'm like, Okay, what is this? What
is this? And it was me mourning And I had
this healer tell me one time, and I thought this
was so good. Yes, you're mourning. You are mourning the
death of a relationship, right. It is a pure death.
It is a loss of dreams. You have to bury,
you have to bury all that stuff, but you're also

(22:49):
mourning the old version of you that was with that person.
And I thought that was so telling, because I was
a certain person when I was married, and I did
have a whole bunch of dreams and I thought my
life was going to turn out differently than what it
had And so a lot of times when I was crying,
it wasn't necessarily because I missed the relationship. I know
I didn't miss the relationship, right, And we do this thing,

(23:11):
I think we romanticize the person when we break up
with them. I know I certainly have with all of
my exes, where all of a sudden they've got a
damn halo on their head and you start to forget
all the things that got you to that place. You
forget all the things that they did, all the fights, everything,
and you start missing them as if they were this
like most angelic presence. And it's like, no, go back,

(23:33):
read your journal, talk to your friends. You know, for me,
my mom she remembers every single person whoever did anything
wrong to me, back to the time that I was
in kindergarten. So going back and talking to my mom
was like, really really helpful, and it's like, yeah, you know,
you don't want them to get hate fucked by a shark.
But at the same time, it's like you need to
remember how you got there and not just put that

(23:56):
aside for romantic amnesia and just allowing each day to
be one day I was feeling frisky, one day, I
was like, ooh, maybe I can masturbate, and then I
would start crying in the middle of it instead and
just have a sore hand to boot, you know. So
it was just like each day looked different, and I
had to allow myself that roller coaster. I had to
allow the pain to come in whenever it wanted, because

(24:18):
there were times where I thought I was totally fine
and I would be at Gelson's and all of a
sudden start crying over the avocados, you know. So it
was just like I had to allow the roller coaster
of emotions. I had to allow for every thought to
pass through. I had to allow for it to be hard.
I had to allow to miss him. I had to
allow these things, and then little by little it did

(24:41):
get better. You know. One of my favorite quotes is
give time time and just trust that you know your
heart has been broken. I'm speaking for myself. My heart
has been broken so many times in the past, only
to put itself back together stronger than how it was before.
And I just trusted, trusted that it was going to
get better and it did.

Speaker 2 (25:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
I think a lot of times when we're breaking up
or we're ending relationships and we're going through that breakup phase,
we are we are surprised that it keeps coming up,
like we think we've gotten through the worst of it,
and then it he'll hit you and you're like, god,
I thought I was over this, and it's like, don't
that is good.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
Every time that comes up, you.

Speaker 1 (25:22):
Are extinguishing your grief, like you are getting closer to
the end of your grief. Don't fight the grief, like
bring it on, go through it. Allow those emotions to happen.
Even if a month goes by and you're happy and
you've met someone else and all of a sudden it
hits you, that's another step in your healing. That's not
something to ischew and go, oh God, I don't want
to feel any grief.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
Yeah, you do, you do, you do.

Speaker 4 (25:44):
It's a release. And the other thing, too, is it's like,
you know two things I thought of when you said that.
One was things are only as important as the weight
in which we assign to it. I don't know if
I if I said that right. So it's like, if
you're experiencing grief, grief can be as big or small
as you allow for it to be. Like it's it.
So the importance of a feeling like you can be like, yeah,

(26:07):
I'm just really sad today, I'm really really sad, or
you can make that the largest thing in the world.
So that's the other thing too, I think for people
to keep in mind is no emotion nothing is as
important as the label that we give it. And that's
really helped me at times be able to take sort
of just like a for me to step outside of
my emotions, for me to zoom out and look at
it from a bird's eye perspective and be like okay.

(26:30):
And the other thing is anytime I would have those
very overwhelming feelings, and I experienced this just last year
with my split, instead of making it about the other
person and how much we miss the other person and
how we wish it could have worked out, instead of
playing the story that makes it about them, I was
trying to look at it from a different perspective where

(26:51):
I would make it about me. So instead I would say,
instead of being like, oh my god, I miss them
so much, I'd be like, oh my god, look at
the depths of my heart. Oh my god, look how
deeply I can love, And how my love makes me
feel like I have wings and I can grow, and
my love is wild and free, makes me feel like
I can do anything, like wow. So I would start

(27:12):
changing the story instead of it being about them and
how much I miss them, about how impressed I was
with the depths of my own heart. And that actually
helped me a lot, just to change the story that
was happening in my head.

Speaker 2 (27:26):
You said this a few minutes ago.

Speaker 1 (27:28):
You said, you're kind of mourning the person that you
were in that relationship, and I and I think that
there's a lot of that, but there's also a lot
to look forward to the person that you become after
the relationship. Yeah, and that woman is like, is a
cause for celebration?

Speaker 4 (27:43):
Yes, absolutely. You start to experience yourself in a whole
new way. All the things in which you put on
hold because you were putting the other person's needs first,
or you know, like, for example, me I'm somebody who
I'm very flirty with life, you know what I mean.
It's like I like to carry myself areas rising, So
it's like I like to carry myself with a little
wink everywhere I go. Doesn't necessarily mean I'm hitting on

(28:06):
the person, doesn't mean I want to sleep with the person.
But I will flirt with a woman barista just as
much as I will flirt with the hot janitor, you
know what I mean. So it's like it doesn't matter
to me, right, And I had put that part of
my personality aside because it was triggering to people in
the past, and I didn't want to do something that
felt disrespectful to somebody, So I just kind of buried

(28:29):
that part. But now being able to experience my femininity
and my sensuality in a way that like isn't shameful.
It's just who I am. Like life just feels so
much richer to take a luxurious bath and to put on,
you know, a silk robe and give yourself a wink
in the mirror because you think you're hot, you know
what I mean.

Speaker 5 (28:48):
Like, it's just like life just feels so much better
to laugh, to just feel that lightness to explore the
things that I want to explore. And I've never had
the opportunity to really do.

Speaker 4 (29:00):
This before, so you know, it really does feel like
I'm coming into myself. I'm owning the fullness of myself
in a way that I never had the opportunity to so.
And that, you know, and that's on me. That's on
me for allowing that to happen. That's not the other
person's fault. But again, every every relationship, every situation comes

(29:20):
to teach us something, and I've learned some remarkable things
from the men I've been in contact and communication with,
and I'm just so very grateful. And how's your love
life going these days? Non existent? Sister? Do you know
anybody I'm on Riah for you?

Speaker 2 (29:35):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (29:35):
I do? She recommend someone I'm on Riah, and you know,
it's like the amount of founders. I'm like, really, what
did you find?

Speaker 6 (29:43):
I know, you know, and people who are just good
vibes only, or like if I if I do match
with somebody, all of a sudden, they text something really weird,
like I see you like me with my clothes off.

Speaker 4 (29:55):
Too, And I'm like, what the fuck? What is that line?
And then they'll be like, what's your I'm like, buddy, no,
too fast, too fast, So anyway, I yeah, I don't know,
but I'm just I'm also in a space where I like, again,
like I am not chasing. I chased last year when
I was very single and same, being single was very new,

(30:16):
and now I'm just like my life is really good.
Like I'm really happy. I'm really happy with my work,
I'm really full with my children, Like I'm traveling a lot,
I'm meeting people, and if a relationship comes in, and like,
you can make my life better than what it is,
like awesome, Like I am ready, you know, but yeah,
otherwise I don't know. It just feels like a waste

(30:38):
of time.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
Yeah, you have to be an addition, not a subtraction.

Speaker 4 (30:41):
That's exactly Exploring myself as a single person has made
me more excited about love than ever. And like, and
I didn't think I would feel that way, Like I
was very jaded after my divorce, and then when I
got with my ex, I was like, I love you
so much, Like this is exactly what I've been waiting for.
I want to be buried on top of you when

(31:03):
we die and we can come back as ghosts and
haunt people like my love felt gothic and like, you know,
like deep, and I thought I would be jaded, but
I'm just more excited than ever to show because now
that I understand the fullness, the wholeness of myself, I'm like, Wow,
how amazing to be in a partnership where I can
show someone my like soft and my fire, like the

(31:26):
full extent of my growth and to grow with somebody.
So yeah, like I'm just I'm so excited for whenever
that happens.

Speaker 1 (31:34):
It's also just so empowering as becoming a woman and
like you know, getting older and realizing, like you know,
your messiness or the things that you aren't so proud
of or hadn't been so proud of, are okay to
be on display. Like you don't have to cover up
parts of you. You can actually be one hundred percent
who you are. And there is going to be men,

(31:54):
not just one man. There are going to be many
men who are attrusted to that and like your yes,
you know, yes, yeah, And like we've spent so many
years perfecting our image to the man or men that
we want to think of us in a certain way,
and it's all just completely convoluted and upside down. What

(32:15):
we come to understand about ourselves is like the more
you you are, the more attractive you become.

Speaker 4 (32:22):
Yes, and the more life just becomes fun. And you know,
and that's the other thing too. It's like I think
about I think about death a lot, but not in
like a morbid way. In a way that's like if
I were to look back on my life, like am
I happy with the chances that I took? Or am
I going to have any regrets? And that's my thing
is I'm not sure where I got this, but from

(32:42):
a very young age, I was like, I don't want
to have any regrets in my life. So you know,
it's like I will absolutely jump now and ask for
forgiveness later or think later about my choices. But it's like,
we're here to have fun. We're here for such a
short period of time. It's like, why not just squeeze
the you said of every moment as much as we
can and those that don't align great, those that do great. Like,

(33:06):
in the end, none of it matters, you know, it's
just just have fun, live your fucking life.

Speaker 1 (33:12):
I'd like to also say that the section where you
quote my where you use my quote. I had a
guy ask me once are you drinking? You don't have
to drink to make yourself more fun to be around,
and I told him, no, I'm drinking so that you
are more fun to be around. That section is right
above sloppy blowjobs. So let's talk about sloppy bow jobs,
because you talk about the importance of blowjobs.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
And I have to tell you, for many years in.

Speaker 1 (33:33):
My twenties and thirties, I was so fucking scared to
give a blowjob because I did not know how to
give a blowjob and I never gave you once a completion,
so I was like, oh, I don't only know how
to start, I don't know how to finish. And then
my friend who you would never believe who this woman is,
and she's famous.

Speaker 2 (33:50):
I won't say her name, but she taught me.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
She sat me down to dinner and we were in London,
and she's like, Chelsea, let me explain to you how
to give a blowjob.

Speaker 4 (33:58):
And she had did she have like a like did
you have a device?

Speaker 1 (34:01):
No, she didn't have a device, but she described it
and it's very analogous to the way you describe it
in your book.

Speaker 2 (34:06):
It's just like.

Speaker 1 (34:07):
Lots of slobber, lots of spent, lots of tips action,
acting like you're you know, just stroking, rubbing, make it
as wet as possible, and guys are just like it's
it's And.

Speaker 2 (34:17):
Once I learned how to do it, I was like
I was so empowered. Not that yeah, because.

Speaker 1 (34:22):
I always had this thing, like I had this thing
like blowjobs are like that's you don't get a blowjob
from me, you know, Like I had this attitude and
it's like, wait a second, I don't care if you, like,
I want to give a great blowjob.

Speaker 4 (34:35):
Exactly, Like I actually think the blowjob is more for
me than it is for them, because I've reached a
point where I enjoy the person that I'm attracted to.
I enjoy their pleasure so much and I'm very confident
at it that I'm like watch this, you know what
I mean. So it's like yeah, I open up. Yeah,
like like many women, you know, it's like I had

(34:57):
zero context on what a penis even looked like growing up,
and I had and I was a big fan of
like dry humping, and so I had a boyfriend.

Speaker 1 (35:07):
Let me ask you a quick questions, Sorry to interduct
when dry umping is someone climax during that in their pants?

Speaker 2 (35:15):
Is that what happens with dry humping?

Speaker 4 (35:17):
You know?

Speaker 2 (35:17):
Have you not try hunt? I mean not in recent times.

Speaker 4 (35:21):
I think I got off. Well I haven't been recent
times either, But like when I was a teenager, Oh
my god, my mom is going to kill me. When
I was a teenager, I was a big fan of
dry hunting because yeah, I would like get off like I.

Speaker 2 (35:36):
Okay, So it's like masturbating over the past which teenager.

Speaker 4 (35:41):
Yeah, yeah, like the jeans would rub it the bits
in the right place, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (35:47):
I have a rudder, like a rudder when you have
jeans with a thick seam, that is a good jewel
to use to masturbate.

Speaker 4 (35:53):
I will, yeah, exactly. Corduroy is very effective. But yeah,
So I had a boyfriend who was older than me,
and I could tell he wanted more than dry humping,
and I was like, okay. And at the time, there
was this show on HBO. I don't know if you
had ever heard of it or watched it, called Real Sex,
And there was a woman named lou Paguett who was

(36:15):
like she wrote a book called The Big O and
she was older than dirt and she just was like
her very own porn star. And she had a class
that was in Beverly Hills, and I don't know how
I came upon it, but I was like, oh, I
need to take this class. So I took this class.
There were about eight of us there. We were each handed.

(36:37):
There was like a plate, like a fine china plate
was in front of us. And when she went around
the room and we each got to pick out our dildos.
So everyone got like a respectable six inch dildo full
of veins and everything. They were all circumcised and then
she was like, all right, ladies, like let's open up
the back of those throats. These dildos aren't going to
jack off by themselves. And she just taught us to

(36:59):
de sense ties like the gag reflex, taught us like
different like hand techniques really broke down the pan. And
I'm a very analytical person, so it's like for me,
it was hard to unleash that sexual side of me
if it was just like because again I didn't I
was a late bloomer, Like sex was not something that
we talked about in my household with my mom. So

(37:20):
I didn't understand, and so but when she broke it
down like anatomically and the veins and the nerve endings
and the whole thing, and I was like, oh, okay,
now I get it. And then I just love it.
I just love it. And and and the perspective of
the book like again, because the book is for women
written through a female lens. It's all about women empowerment.

(37:44):
You know, the the nights where it's like you could
not be bothered with sex, but you know, you know,
you know, you want to put something out there. It's
the nights where the hands of Tom Brady himself would
get slapped away. If you can learn to give a
good blowye, it's literally helping hand.

Speaker 2 (38:01):
You know.

Speaker 4 (38:01):
It's like the amount of times you can give a
good blow job and in like fucking three minutes flat,
your husband's asleep, your partner's asleep, and you're back to
reading your book, Like that's the only thing I care about.
How quickly can I get back to my book? So yeah,
it's just like the best thing ever.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
So I know you say you wanted to live your
life without any regrets. When you think about your life
now and like present day, what is your biggest regret
or do you have.

Speaker 4 (38:28):
One, Chelsea, I don't have one. Wow, I don't have one.
The amount of times I have, you know, And I
talk about this in the book the failure in fucking
up chapters, like the amount of times I, you know,
fucked up, overreached to a guy, got too drunk, cheated,

(38:48):
all of those things. I learned something so valuable from
those that I wouldn't trade those experiences for anything. You know.
It's like, I look back on my life so far,
and every miss step, I am so glad that I
took it because it allows me to be the person
that I am now. And I really like the person
who puts down her head at night. I really like

(39:10):
the person who was mothering her three children. I like
the example that I'm setting. I like that I'm able
to look at my crazy because I can be fucking
crazy and say I'm glad for every chance that I
took where I showed my crazy because the right people stayed.
And yeah, I don't have any regrets.

Speaker 2 (39:29):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (39:30):
I love that answer. The book is called Life is lifey.
This is Sarah Shahe's new book that's out and we
are going to take a break and we're going to
be right.

Speaker 2 (39:38):
Back, and we're back with Sarah Shahey.

Speaker 1 (39:44):
So you know Sarah from Sex Life, you know her
from The L Word, you know her from Paradise person
of Interest, right, and now she has a new book
where she talks about getting divorced, growing into her best
version of her womanhood.

Speaker 2 (39:57):
And living life.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
I think at living life out, I like saying that
living life out, yeah, because you kind of have to.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
You have to. I want to.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
I always wanted to have a loud life when I
was little, and you know, I didn't know what that
meant other than big. I just wanted a big opportunity
and big adventure and to say yes to things that
really are scaring. You know that scared me so and
I think that's a lot of you know, that's a
big theme in your book as well.

Speaker 4 (40:23):
I'm like you. I grew up in a small town
in Texas, where I from a young age, I knew
I wanted more than what my little town was providing me.
I knew there was more out there, even though I
wasn't exposed to it. So I also was attracted to
this idea of just living this larger than life lifestyle
and That's what I was meant to do, and you know,

(40:46):
and it's really beautiful because I feel like now at
forty six, like I am living that version of my dreams.
I love it.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
We're going to take some callers. Are you ready to
give some advice to women? I'm so Ready's or a
gay man?

Speaker 2 (41:00):
We sometimes.

Speaker 4 (41:02):
I love this well.

Speaker 2 (41:05):
Our first question comes from Kendra.

Speaker 3 (41:07):
This one's just an email, but I felt like it
was very appropriate for you, Sarah. So Kendra says, Dear Chelsea,
I'm a forty two year old mother of two teenagers
who's divorced from their dad. We were in a fifteen year,
unhealthy and sexless marriage. I have a new partner of
five years who is so kind, fun, smart, thoughtful, and
great with my kids. We live together and are having

(41:28):
a commitment ceremony this fall. The problem is our sex
life is lackluster at best. I've brought this up to
him many times, and it seems to fall on deaf ears.

Speaker 2 (41:37):
At first.

Speaker 3 (41:37):
He was very offended when I suggested we spice things
up and said he was happy with our sex life.
He claims I'm just more sexual than him. But I
feel so confused. What man doesn't want to have a
threesome or do literally anything he wants to me. The
relationship itself doesn't feel very sexual. I feel like I'm
in my prime and I want to have fun in
the bedroom and explore. He's the only man I've been

(41:58):
with since my divorce, so two men twenty two years.
I'm starting to feel a bit ripped off, and I'm
wondering if I can live with this type of vanilla
sex for the rest of my life. I'm starting to
understand why some people have affairs, which is horrible to
say and I never would, but I get it. Help Kendra, Oh,
Kendraw girl, I feel your pain.

Speaker 4 (42:16):
Oh man, I understand there are a lot of good
things there, but then also you feel like you're not
getting your needs met in some way. I wonder in
those moments when you did bring it up to him,
I wonder if instead of making it a verbal communication,

(42:36):
can you just start doing it? Can you in the act,
can you just start directing the sex in the direction
that you want it to go when he is turned
on as well? Like, I wonder if that's a possibility,
if you've tried that or not. And I also feel
like at the end of the day, the good has

(42:58):
to outweigh the bad. And I don't know your relationship
other than the fact that he sounds like a very safe,
warm presence, which is beautiful. But I'm also somebody who
this is me personally speaking. I don't believe in lack
and I do believe that there is somebody out there
that can check all those boxes. I'm not telling you

(43:21):
not to have your commitment ceremony, but at the same time,
I do think you have to really get quiet with
yourself and ask yourself, is this about the lackluster sex
or could this lackluster energy also be translating into other areas,

(43:43):
Like is it just about the sex isn't fun? Or
is this a person who could be missing some kind
of that vitality in other areas as well. But maybe
you just notice it more in the sex, and is
that something you can live with.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
I think when you have these kind of concerns before
or you're in a serious like you're about to make
a commit you know, have a commitment ceremony. I think
these kinds of concerns, like if you're a sexual being
and his reaction to that isn't oh my god, let's
fix this.

Speaker 2 (44:12):
Let's get this figure it out.

Speaker 1 (44:13):
Let's let's work together, let's get a sex therapist, or
let's figure it out together alone, Like, what can I
do to make you more give you more pleasure, or
be more sexually active, or initiate whatever your things are
like If someone isn't open to that, I don't think
those things get better as you stay together. I think
that y, you know, commitment leads to laziness a lot
in relationships. And I'm not saying this is applicable to

(44:36):
every relationship. I just think things become easier and you
get used to someone and you try less and you
don't try as hard. So if that's an issue for
you now, and you are a sexual being and you're
talking about potentially thinking about an affair, like, then if
you're if you want to go and have an affair
and do that, and you're okay with that, then do that.
But if you're not, which it sounds like you're not,

(44:58):
then you should really think about making a commitment to
this person because that is a major Sex is a
major component of a relationship for so many people, not
for everybody.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
It doesn't sound like it is for the guy that.

Speaker 1 (45:10):
You're you know, committing to but exactly, But for a
lot of us it is important. For me, that is
the number one thing, Like I am there for sex.
It's not the number one thing, sorry, but it's up
there like the top.

Speaker 4 (45:22):
Like when the sex is not good, It's like, when
the sex is not good, the other problems become so
much more heightened. Yeah, it is. It is an important
part of the dynamic. And Chelsea is right. It's like
if there are signs already, like those red flags only
get redder after marriage, you know, they don't, they don't

(45:42):
go away. And and you should be in a relationship
where you can talk about the hard things and it's
received with curiosity and interest and and you know, I
understand if you are criticizing a man's you know, sexual appetite,
how they might at first get a little flustered by it.
But at the end of the day, like if there

(46:03):
isn't that interest to get on the same page, maybe
he doesn't want to do a three way, maybe his
answer would be something else, you know, But you're right, Chelsea,
like the the interests to explore together should be there.
If this is a man that you're going to make
a commitment to.

Speaker 3 (46:20):
Yeah, yeah, and I think take steps like do the
therapy Chelsea talked about, and also like get his levels
checked because this could be something as simple as like
he's got some low tigue going on or whatever and
his libido is low.

Speaker 2 (46:32):
Yeah, So like, but I do like what you.

Speaker 3 (46:34):
Say, Sarah, but like he should be responding with curiosity.
But like just take all the steps, like see what
you can see, see if it's fixable, and if it's not, then.

Speaker 2 (46:43):
You've got, you know, some decisions to make potentially.

Speaker 4 (46:45):
Yeah, and don't ignore the fact that you're second guessing
right now, Like that's that's that's that's a part of you,
that's your higher self, that's somehow that's communicating to you.
So don't brush it under the rug thinking it's going
to go away, because it won't go away.

Speaker 1 (47:00):
Right as a fifty year old woman, Like your sex
drive only increases as you get older, So if you're
already somebody who is interested in sex, it's going to
get more and more.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
You're going to be more and more interested.

Speaker 4 (47:11):
So that's changed my underwear a couple of times a day.
And I'm not even with anybody.

Speaker 1 (47:18):
So and I'm older than you, Kendra, Oh my God,
I gotta send that to my friend and she doesn't
wear underwear, and I was like, listen, that is So
she goes, why I need a net to catch whatever
is coming out? She goes, what's coming out? I'm like,
all sorts of stuff? What are you talking about? Nothing's
coming out of your vagina into your underwear. And I'm like,

(47:39):
she's like, I don't see anything. I'm like, that's because
it's on your jeans. You're so disgusting. God, But I mean, yeah,
there's things, guys coming in and out of your vaginas,
hopefully more in and out.

Speaker 2 (47:48):
But listen, that's what happens. It's natural, and it's nature.

Speaker 4 (47:53):
Yeah, and it's beautiful. I love it.

Speaker 2 (47:54):
It is beautiful. That's a great way to look at it.

Speaker 4 (47:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (47:58):
Well, our color today is he's this, dear Chelsea. A
month ago, my relationship of nearly three years ended. I
pride myself on my intuition, but what often gets in
my way is empathy, giving people the benefit of the doubt,
especially those I invest deeply in My ex and I
had a nineteen year age gap. I'm twenty nine, he's
forty eight. Unconventional, but it worked in many ways. As

(48:21):
the child of a therapist. I'm emotionally self aware and
have spent years working on myself. Over time, it became
clear that my partner wasn't at the same level of
emotional development. I've learned to meet people where they are
without judgment and show up fully. He came out at
twenty six, after growing up Catholic and nearly becoming a
priest to avoid being openly gay. Knowing this made me
patient with his struggles around communication, commitment, and unhealthy patterns

(48:45):
like alcoholism. I saw him fully and still chose him,
even knowing I might deserve someone who had already worked
through those issues. Throughout the relationship, there were repeated instances
of him flirting with other men online emoji reactions, compliments messages.
I raised this many times. He insisted it wasn't cheating,
framing it as a self esteem issue and a need

(49:05):
for validation. Despite my gut telling me it wouldn't stop,
I stayed. Then I went against my own rule and
looked at his phone and saw nude photos from someone
who was quote just a friend, with my partner actively
flirting back now here. I am heartbroken, but clear that
something wasn't right. I'm grateful for any advice you can
offer on how to get past the cheating, and more importantly,

(49:25):
how I can stop my sense of empathy from allowing
other people to mistreat me in the future. Thanks for
the clarity, humor, and guidance you provide to people navigating uncertainty.
It truly matters.

Speaker 4 (49:35):
Wyat, Hi Wyatt, Hi Hi Wyat.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
Hello.

Speaker 7 (49:40):
So let's leat both of you.

Speaker 1 (49:42):
I like that you're standing up like an audition, like,
oh you are okay.

Speaker 2 (49:47):
I was like, is this a mugshot?

Speaker 4 (49:48):
I didn't know what was a very long tour, so.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
Yeah, you must be very long waist short tour.

Speaker 4 (49:53):
So so I'm glad it's all frame perfect.

Speaker 2 (49:55):
It's the framing. The framing is giant.

Speaker 4 (49:58):
You are giant. Love it.

Speaker 1 (50:01):
This is our special guest, Sarah Shahe obviously, So I'm
first of all, did you you ended the relationship when
you found when you found those photos on his phone?

Speaker 7 (50:10):
It was an ending out of anger, and in the
moment of ending it, we had met about ten days
later to actually like discuss in a healthy manner of conversation,
which really wasn't a conversation. It was just him deciding
he didn't want to be in a relationship. So that's
kind of how it ended to me. It was more

(50:31):
of a discard rather than a let's figure this out
or what the next step forward is.

Speaker 1 (50:36):
Right right, Well, first of all, it's great news that
that relationship has ended. It may not feel great in
this moment, but you're going to be grateful as you move.

Speaker 2 (50:44):
Through your life and heal from this that that person
it's not a match.

Speaker 1 (50:48):
You don't want anyone that's being deceitful or that's looking
at nude pictures online, Like that's not what you're looking for.
You're looking for honesty, openness, transparency, right exactly. So I
think I mean we're just talking about this.

Speaker 2 (51:03):
Sarah just wrote a new book.

Speaker 1 (51:04):
It's called Life Is Lifey The a disease Navigating Life's
messy middle, which is on the subject matter of breaking
up in.

Speaker 2 (51:12):
New beginnings, kind of owning your own power.

Speaker 1 (51:14):
And so while I understand you're hurt and you're disappointed
and you're heartbroken, like, these are all tools that are
going to bring you closer to a person who is
going to appreciate you and is going to understand you.
And by moving on through this relationship, and out of
this relationship.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
There is going to be a rebirth. There's going to be.

Speaker 1 (51:34):
A new version of you that you can look forward
to getting to know. And that's the most exciting thing
about breaking up that no one ever tells you, is
that you are going to bloom and blossom in ways
that you did not know.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
That's just the way the world works.

Speaker 1 (51:47):
You're not going to sit here and wallow and self
pity or be upset for years and years and years.
That's just not going to happen. You're going to meet
other people, You're going to be interested in other people.
And I think the most crucial thing to do is
to really not try to push any of it away.
Just experience the breakup, Experience the loss, the grief, Welcome it.

Speaker 2 (52:06):
You know.

Speaker 1 (52:06):
They say like, if you allow yourself to cry and
be in pain, it lasts for like ninety seconds and
then it's over. And it's kind of true. I mean,
and maybe it's less than ninety seconds. It's something small
like that. It's not over for good, but you move
through that, you know. So my advice to you is
to not resist the moment that you're in and resist
the reality that you're in. But to look at it

(52:27):
with open arms and have an attitude of love. Like
you don't have to be angry at that guy or
your ex. You don't have to be mad at him.
You have to just learn you to understand that certain
people aren't meant for us, and it's a gift when
we are separated from them, even if it's from the
other person doing it, it is a gift. It's getting

(52:48):
you closer to your real happiness, and maybe that happiness
involves you spending some time alone so that you know,
getting to really sit with yourself and make making sure
that you're looking for any of those red flags the
next time, you know what I mean, So you're not
making the same kind of choices twice. I think that
is the best like advice in life is to try

(53:10):
not to make the same mistake twice. It kind of
redirects what you're willing to tolerate, you know, from different people.
It's like, I don't want to have that I dated
an asshole once. I'm not saying your guy was an asshole,
but I dated an asshole once. I didn't want to
ever date an asshole twice, and I have it. You know,
I've dated different kinds of assholes, but never the same
type of asshole, you know, And like I like to

(53:31):
look at that, I like to look at life through
that lens, like it's if something doesn't work out, great,
that won't happen again the next time. I'm going to
find something, you know, I'm going to find something different,
or I'm going to find something that.

Speaker 2 (53:42):
Does work out.

Speaker 1 (53:43):
So I would my advice would be that is to
just sit in this moment and you know, talk about
it when you need to talk about it. Hire a
therapist if you don't have one already, to help you
work through it and also develop better. Like I don't
want to insult your judgment because it's not about your judgment,
but you have to know.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
Exactly what you're looking for.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
So like Sarah, we've been talking about this, like getting
to know what you need, what you want, how to
be your most authentic self so that you're attracting the
type of person that respects, that recognizes it and lucks it,
you know, and wants to be with you, and that
all all that work is kind of what has to
happen after each breakup.

Speaker 7 (54:23):
Yeah, no, I fully agree on all of that.

Speaker 4 (54:26):
First of all, why I'm so sorry for your heartbreak,
like I know it sucks. And Chelsea said so many
incredible things, and I can tell that you are an
incredible human and you have this light that radiates through
your audition looking frame. But on top of everything that
Chelsea said, which is so true, there's a couple things

(54:48):
I thought of that I want I would love for
you to think about. You said that you can meet
people where they're at. Per my experience, you can only
meet people as deeply as they've met them. And it
doesn't sound like and it doesn't sound like your ex
has met himself very deeply, even though he is, you know,

(55:09):
twenty years older than you. I'm sure the relationship gave
you a lot of wonderful things to think on, learn,
chew on. And the other thing I wanted I wanted
to say is God, Chelsea said so many good things.
Just because you are good for somebody doesn't mean they

(55:32):
are good for you. So to speak to the part
of you that feels because because I'm I'm very much
like you, my heart is so soft and I have
you know, when you're an EmPATH, you have so much
empathy for the other person you can rationalize their bad behavior,
and it makes you soft, and it makes you want
to forgive, and it makes you want to take them back.

(55:55):
But kurr of the work that I've done, And your
mom is a therapist, so you might be doing this
stuff already. What I learned is that that that's not empathy.
That's me trying to prove my worth to somebody. My
father left when I was very young, and I spent
a large portion of my young adult life trying to
prove and I thought I was the reason why he left,

(56:17):
Like I thought I wasn't a good enough daughter. So
every time he came back, I would like I would
be like a cat in between his legs, like trying
to purr on him and sit on his lap and
just like do whatever I could to make sure he
didn't leave again, because if he picked me, I knew
I was worthy. So I started imitating those same patterns
in my relationships, and I would have partners like that

(56:39):
would leave and I would I again, this is because
I want to prove, because there's a story in my
brain that in order for me to be loved, I
have to prove that I am worthy, that I am
good enough. So I would start doing that stuff, and
I would not have any boundaries. I would let the
person cheat on me, throw things at me, push me,
spit in my face, do whatever, and then they would

(57:01):
come back and apologize. And because I was like, yeah,
I can understan, Yeah, okay, well they were really drunk
or they were high, or yeah you were just angry,
and you know, I'm going to allow for you to
be who you are. I would accept that. I would
accept it when it's like no, because those things I
don't deserve to be treated like that. Nobody deserves to

(57:21):
be treated like that. Or I should say that's not
the type of relationship that's for me. Maybe for somebody
else they enjoy that kind of thing. That's not what
I'm looking for for my nervous system. And at the
end of the day, I think you should be you know,
not that I'm trying to sit here and sell a
copy of my book, but hey, why not if you can. Uh.

(57:44):
I do talk about like marriage and breakups and all that. Well,
I know you guys weren't married, but just breakups in
the book, and your life is going to open up
in so many marvelous ways, Like this man did you
a favor. He did you a favor. So if anything,
it's like bless him, send him on his way. And
anytime you have those feelings, like Chelsea said, let them

(58:06):
come out, that's beautiful. That just shows you the depths
of like your love. So and as often as you can,
try to turn it back to that as opposed to
being like how much you miss him, make it more
about yourself than what a beautiful human you are and
how much you're expanding.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
Yeah, and that's something that we were just talking about
that Wyatt before you were on is just when you
get heartbroken, or you get your heart broken, your part
comes back together, the pieces come back together, and it
makes a stronger heart, Like you become stronger and you
become I just want to circle back because you were
talking about empathy and being an EmPATH and like, don't

(58:43):
confuse empathy with codependency. Like those two things are very
close together. So when you're being so empathetic that you're
allowing behaviors to exist because of what they've been through
without having your own standards and boundaries in place, then
that's a codependency. That's just allowing behavior and working around

(59:04):
someone else's problems and they're not working around yours. So
for you your next relationship, I want you to focus
on having an equal relationship where you're both equally caring
of the other person. And it can be imbalanced at times,
but overall, when you look at like a spreadsheet, you
both have to be putting in the same amount of
effort towards each other and towards understanding, like caring, thinking

(59:29):
about the other person, wondering how they're doing.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
It can't be once.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
It can't be lopsided because that just develops into a
codependency and it's like bad, bad habits, and those are
hard to break after you develop them.

Speaker 4 (59:41):
Yeah, and then one more thing that Chelsea just reminded
me of too. I hope this is all helpful, Okay, okay.
And when Chelsea was talking about bad behaviors and choosing
differently in the future, I had a partner actually teach
this to me, and I thought this was brilliant. When

(01:00:02):
someone makes a mistake, right, they do something that is
clearly not right okay, or doesn't work whatever however you
want to label it, that can be an accident. Okay,
I did this, It's an accident. I'm sorry. It's not
going to happen again. That can be labeled as a mistake.
When it keeps happening, when it's repetitive, that's no longer

(01:00:25):
an accident. That's who they are. That is chosen behavior,
and that is who they are. So and then there's
that great you know. I don't remember if it was
Oprah or My Angelou who said it, but it was
like when people show it was my Angelou. When people
show you who they are, believe them. Yeah, you know exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
So if you take everything we said, Wyat like, you
have a lot to look forward to, So be gentle
with yourself and like getting through this period and then
get excited about what the future has to offer.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
You're twenty nine years old, you're gonna fall in off
and you're probably a few times.

Speaker 4 (01:01:04):
You haven't even suffered twink death. You look great. Thank
you so much. Yes, Like, if this is what your
torso looks like, I can only mate a half. So
it's all downhill money you are. You are good to go,
my friend. That's so sweet.

Speaker 2 (01:01:23):
Thanks for calling him.

Speaker 4 (01:01:24):
Why of course, thank you for the time space to listen.

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
Yeah for sure. Oh what a sweetie. I know, so sweet, Wyatt.

Speaker 4 (01:01:33):
You guys gave such good advice to him. He's going
to do He's going to do great. He's going to
do great.

Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
He's going to flourish.

Speaker 7 (01:01:38):
He is.

Speaker 4 (01:01:39):
Well, let's take a quick break and we'll be back
to wrap up.

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
Okay, and we're going to take a break.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
Okay, we are taking a break, and we're back with
Sarah Shaty. Her new book is called Life Is Lifey
The a Disease Navigating Life's messy middle and you can
also find her in the upcoming seasons of Hulu's Paradise
and the upcoming sequel to Red White and Royal Blue. Okay,

(01:02:05):
what do we have to close this out today, Catherine?

Speaker 3 (01:02:08):
I mean, I do have a quickie if you're ready
for a quickie, already have.

Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
A minute for a quickie?

Speaker 4 (01:02:13):
Yeah? What's a quickie without a person?

Speaker 6 (01:02:16):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (01:02:17):
Oh? I was like, what are we doing, ladies?

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
Yeah, like not a very complicated Chloe. We just need
you straight a quick Gloe. I don't know if your
Ti Joe at your house.

Speaker 4 (01:02:26):
I didn't see this email.

Speaker 3 (01:02:29):
We'll finish up with our one drink question, which is
Dear Chelsea. Last year for her birthday and Christmas, our
niece's response to our gift was let's just say, less
than enthusiastic. Plus, she made a rude comment. She's nine.
We didn't say anything to her, but later my husband
talked to his sister and let her know that her
daughter's lack of gratitude and rude comment hurt. His sister

(01:02:50):
did not take this very well. She thought we were
attacking her parenting rather than asking for her to teach
her kid to give.

Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
A polite thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:02:57):
His sister has asked us not to give her her
children presence and told us they wouldn't even notice if
they got gifts from us or not. Last time we
saw them, his sister was chilly. We have a family
event coming up. Should I address this with her? Thanks Sissy?

Speaker 1 (01:03:11):
I mean, well, it's obvious where she got her manners from,
I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
Her mother.

Speaker 4 (01:03:18):
What I was thinking, like, what the fuck?

Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
First of all, please and thank you are the first
two phrases you should learn. Please and thank you, thank you,
thank you, thank you.

Speaker 4 (01:03:27):
I have a thought, Chelsea, do you go?

Speaker 2 (01:03:29):
You go ahead? Because you're a mother.

Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
I always have to think things through because when I
don't have kids, I have to think about what the
right thing is.

Speaker 4 (01:03:35):
You go first, okay. And by the way, I appreciate
that because the amount of times people without you know, kids,
want to just give their advice like it's the facts.
So I appreciate that you have that awareness. I would say,
what are you looking for? What would your intention be
for bringing it up? Are you looking to resolve something

(01:03:57):
or get a different way of behavior out of her,
or are you wanting to just express something from yourself?
So I would get really clear on what your intention
is if you did bring it up. If you're bringing
it up to try to adjust her behavior, I'm not
sure if you would be successful at that, and if anything,

(01:04:19):
you might just create a really bad situation for everybody,
Whereas if you just chose to be neutral, maybe the
energy would be a little bit better. But if it's
something you feel like you need to say regardless of
what her response is, I am more aligned with that
kind of stuff because then it's for you. It's not

(01:04:39):
because you're trying. You don't have an expectation of the
other person. So that's a tough one. But again i'd
be like, if you're looking to change her behavior, I
don't know if it would be worth it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:49):
But if I just based on your last interaction or
the last interaction when she was confronted with her child's behavior.
It doesn't seem like she's in a place or a
state of mind to take that on like or to
have any accountability for why her She's obviously embarrassed that
her daughter acts like that, and instead of admitting that,
she's covering up for it and defensive like, oh, that

(01:05:12):
she doesn't need gifts from you, Like that's that's an
even more childish thing to say than what the daughter said,
you know, by not showing gratitude, but also you know,
like just great, don't get her any more gifts.

Speaker 2 (01:05:24):
The girl doesn't know how to say thank you. She
won't get any more gifts from you.

Speaker 1 (01:05:29):
And that behavior is going to surface and resurface and
resurface like she's nine years old.

Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
It's not gonna get it's gonna get worse before it
gets better.

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
If it does get better, but it's gonna happen again
in some rude way.

Speaker 2 (01:05:41):
She's gonna be rude in some other way.

Speaker 1 (01:05:43):
And I guess what I would say is not to
address the issue unless it's a birthday situation and you
don't bring a gift, and then you can be like
you told us not to give her a gift.

Speaker 2 (01:05:54):
She doesn't you know, you said she wouldn't care, Like I.

Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
Would only bring it up if it's pertinent to what
had happened.

Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
But this is going to recur with her with the.

Speaker 4 (01:06:03):
Girl, and this is that the last time the mom
is going to hear this.

Speaker 1 (01:06:07):
So I think you're gonna have other opportunities instead of
focusing on something that transpired a while ago, Why don't
you wait for the next opportunity and then bring it
up in the moment. There you go, So you're not
harping on anything, you know, So that would be my advice. Yeah,
don't say anything now, wait it wait, wait it out,
and I will reveal itself again, Sarah. I just wanted

(01:06:33):
to recognize the fact that you're Iranian, yeah, and Persian,
and ask you if you have any family in Iran
right now.

Speaker 4 (01:06:41):
I have a lot of family. I have a lot
of family. My uncle actually got shot a couple of
weeks ago. He was caught in the crossfires and they
had a really hard time getting him in the hospital.
He's fine. They were able to get the bullet out.
He was driving to work, and yeah, it's really awful,
and I pray for the situation over there to change.

(01:07:04):
Growing up, being Persian is something that was always looked
down upon, you know. I think the outside world believes
that the Iranian citizens are like the government and that
every Persian is a terrorist, and there was always this
stigma around it. But I really really hope and pray

(01:07:24):
that situations change, things change over there and the world
can get to know Iran and its people for the
beautiful citizens that they are. It's such a rich culture.
It's such a diverse culture. It's like deeply immersed in
poetry and beauty and songs, and you know, even there
are no history books, even the history books that reflected

(01:07:47):
the beauty that Iran had, even those have just been erased.
So yeah, it's tough. I talk about it with my
family every day. We don't really have a way to
get in touch with anyone over there. It's pretty sad.
And I'm just praying for a miracle.

Speaker 2 (01:08:02):
Yeah, yeah, I am too. I am too. It feels
like the whole world needs a miracle. We need a
like that.

Speaker 1 (01:08:07):
All the systems feel like they're about to break, you know,
like yes.

Speaker 4 (01:08:11):
And I just I and you know, and the people
over there. They're so desperate. They have nothing to lose anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:08:17):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:08:17):
It's like my I have a lot of family over there,
aunts and uncles. They can't afford electricity, you know, they
can't afford food. I mean, inflation is so high. It's
like if you want to go out and buy a chicken,
it's like one hundred dollars. You know. It's just it's
insane how little these people have. And that's why they've
just taken to the streets now, because they they're dead anyway,

(01:08:39):
there is nothing to lose anymore. But they need help.
They need help if they're going to instigate any kind
of change.

Speaker 2 (01:08:45):
Yeah, I know.

Speaker 1 (01:08:46):
It's like, I mean, yeah, that's a whole other political conversation.

Speaker 4 (01:08:51):
Exactly exactly, one in which you know, yeah, we don't
get into. But I really just pray that, uh, in
this time of upheaval, you know that the analogy of
things needing to break down in order to rebuild better.
I really hope that applies, yeah for everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:09:09):
Yeah, I think so. I wonder I think that's true.

Speaker 1 (01:09:12):
I wonder how many years that takes, you know, like,
or is it going to happen in our lifetime or
is this going to be one hundred year thing?

Speaker 2 (01:09:18):
Like, are we going to see the change we need
to go?

Speaker 1 (01:09:22):
I read this really interesting thing on Instagram this morning.
It was a quote about how we were a matriarchal
society for two hundred and fifty thousand years and for
the ten thousand years that we've been a patriarchal society,
shit has hit the fan and we've had more wars,
We've had more like, you know, just depravity. Especially in
light of all the news circulating right now, it's like

(01:09:42):
we are in a situation where women have taken like
a second class citizen role at the expense of humanity.

Speaker 4 (01:09:51):
Yes, and I really think that, you know, going back
to the themes that we talk about too, it's like
the reason why that happened, and that's this is important
for every woman listener of your of your podcast and
your platform to know is because we are so strong.
We are the creators, Like the universe made us the

(01:10:13):
creators for a reason, Like societies from the beginning of
time have been so intimidated by the natural power that
women hold. And it's just important for us to remember
and do whatever we can, big or small to help
tip that scale.

Speaker 1 (01:10:30):
Yeah, And it was comparing societies to like all animal societies,
you know how they're like the of the male lines
ousted out of the group because he's not helpful, you
know that, how like all of these But seria, it's true,
like it's all matriarchal and animals, elephants, lions, like all
of it. They're just like you guys aren't allowed to
be here. You're violent, you're scary, and you're you're brawny.

(01:10:53):
But don't adding, don't confuse right brawn with like that's
for labor, you know what I mean, that's not for
running societies.

Speaker 4 (01:11:02):
So men have made such a mess of things.

Speaker 3 (01:11:04):
I think like, let's just get all of them out
of power, and it's time for women to have a turn,
and let's just see if we can turn this around.

Speaker 2 (01:11:09):
I think we can.

Speaker 4 (01:11:09):
And I love men. You know, I'm not sitting here
as you know, a man hater like saying this. I
love men, and I think there's a very important role
for them to play. But the tips of the scale
of masculinity has become so unhealthy that we need to
find that balance again.

Speaker 1 (01:11:29):
Sarah loved hanging out with you so much fun talking.

Speaker 4 (01:11:33):
To you you as well, Chelsea, thank you so much.
This has been such a privilege.

Speaker 2 (01:11:37):
It was so fun.

Speaker 1 (01:11:38):
And the book is called Life Is Lifey the a
disease navigating Life's messy middle. So please grab yourself a copy.
And I hope to see you in person at some point, Sarah.

Speaker 4 (01:11:49):
I hope so too. I hope so too. Yes, we'll
be dripping in all kinds of goodness.

Speaker 2 (01:11:54):
Yeah, we'll practice our blowjobs together. That'll be something I
look forward to.

Speaker 4 (01:11:57):
That would be fun, fun. Take care, we'll switch dips. Okay, great,
All right, bye, ladies, Thank you so much, have a
great day.

Speaker 1 (01:12:05):
Okay, guys, I am officially on my high and mighty tour.
March thirteenth, Cleveland, Ohio. March fourteenth, Columbus, Ohio. March fifteenth, Cincinnati, Ohio.
And then March twentieth is Denver, Colorado. March twenty seventh, Portland, Maine.
March twenty eighth, Providence, Rhode Island. March twenty ninth, Springfield, Massachusetts.

(01:12:26):
April tenth is Chicago. I'll be at the Chicago Theater
in April eleventh. Indianapolis, Indiana. April twelfth, Louisville, Kentucky. April
sixteenth is Albuquerque, New Mexico. April seventeenth is Masa, Arizona.
April twenty third is Kansas City, Missouri. April twenty fourth
is Saint Louis, Missouri. April twenty fifth is Minneapolis, Minnesota.

(01:12:49):
April thirtieth Nashville, Tennessee. May first is Charlotte, North Carolina.
May second is Durham, North Carolina. May sixth I'm doing
Netflix as a joke festival. I will be in Los Angeles.
That is a new announcement, along with Atlantic City May fifteenth, Saratoga, California.
May sixteenth, Monterey, California, May seventeenth, Modesto, California, and then

(01:13:11):
June fourth.

Speaker 2 (01:13:12):
Portchester, New York.

Speaker 1 (01:13:13):
June fifth is Boston, mass And June twelfth is Portland, Oregon.
And then Seattle is June thirteenth, So suck on that, everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:13:23):
Go to Chelseahandler dot com for tickets.

Speaker 3 (01:13:25):
If you want advice from Chelsea, write into Dear Chelsea
podcast at gmail dot com. Dear Chelsea is a production
of iHeartMedia. Follow Chelsea on all socials at Chelsea Handler
and find Catherine on TikTok at flash Cadabra. Dear Chelsea
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