Episode 181 – Toby talks with Mike Harris of GOAL & Atty. Jason Guida about the freshly released Bill H.4139 “An Act Modernizing Firearm Laws”

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Direct from Cape Gun works in H.
You're listening to rapid fire radio with your
host, Toby Lea,
I'm Toby Lea from Cake Gun works.
I'm passionate about all things second amendment.
While I love to shoot.
Going hot.

(00:21):
There is so much more to guns than
just pulling the trigger.
A free in armed society is a responsible
and self reliant 1.
Join us to talk all things guns,
freedom and self defense.
It isn't just about being armed.

(00:44):
It's about being responsibly armed.
So load and make ready
This is rapid fire.

(01:29):
Welcome everybody. We are
live
Welcome to rapid fire
episode number 181
on
the year of our Lord, 07/17/2004.
And

(01:50):
friends
this was a show I wish I never
had to do,
but
here we are.
The tyrant
have
done their thing,
and we are now
sitting here,
staring down the barrel of government

(02:10):
regulation that is so
unconstitutional. That is so
constitutional prohibited
from ever happening,
and it brings us to a point in
history where we must make a decision.
Do we
actually
comply with this
unconstitutional law, or do we as

(02:31):
Madison V Mar
stated that
All
unconstitutional laws are rep
and should be ignored.
The question is
What is your comfort level of putting yourself
in that position? Your family in that position?
Your loved ones in that position Your bank
accounts in that position?

(02:51):
Because the federal government and the state governments
alike have all proven
that they don't care about your right to
keep in their arms. They don't care about
due process. They don't care about
your constitutional protected and en rights. And by
the way, they are protected from who they're

(03:12):
protected from government
from creating
infringement on them. That's what they are protected
from.
And
they ignore all that,
after 3 months of deli liberation behind closed
doors.
The
senate and the house have emerged with a

(03:32):
reconciliation bill
that
they are gonna introduce. It's already dropped,
and it is gonna be
voted on tomorrow
at the state House.
So
what that means to us as gun owners
is it significantly affects the future, of gun

(03:52):
ownership in Massachusetts. It further layers on on
unconstitutional restrictions on guns that are in common
and ordinary use which the heller decision set
is the standard for whether a gun is
a protected arm. If it's in common and
ordinary use.
Then it can't be considered
dangerous

(04:13):
and
unusual and therefore
banned by
Congress. So therefore, they are in open defiance
of many supreme court decisions, including, but not
limited to
Mar Mar reversed Madison.
We have
the
1 from
19 43,

(04:35):
Pennsylvania,
Murdoch, v, Pennsylvania. We have
Cape tan. We have B. We have Heller.
We have Mcdonald.
And
the truth of the matter is they don't
care.
They have proven once again. They are willing
to violate and sacrifice their own integrity on
the altar

(04:55):
of tyranny, and they are willing to do
that which they are not
permitted to do by the constitution and that
is infringe upon rights that were acknowledged by
our founders and by our create
by our founding fathers,
are ina rights endowed by our creator,
and they pre

(05:16):
the constitution. They pre
the bill of rights.
And they have been acknowledged and written down
for poster sake to guard against
the natural inclination of humanity to rise
into a tyra
position
and
take away
the God given rights that are in every

(05:37):
single person.
And
I would argue that In doing so, they
sear their own conscience with a hot iron,
they lied to their constituents. They lied
to the
to the entire
population when they held their hand high on
an inauguration day and and they lied to

(05:58):
their creator,
when they said
that they will uphold the constitution against all
enemies both foreign and domestic.
So help me God.
And then
they
sold their soul
in the process,
by literally,

(06:18):
exchanging
their
constitutional
limitations
for
a
tyra
act of
giving
themselves
the ability to grant
rights and take them away,
which they lack the constitutional authority to do.

(06:40):
All the while, they sear... They've they solve
their conscience, which is screaming at them
with
the the sa of
no right is absolute. The lie
that the media and the government in its
position of power has
deliberately and will and want

(07:04):
beat us over the heads with collectively for
decades,
and say, you know, there's limits to your
rights because you can't shout fire in a
crowded building,
and use that as they're
as their
dilution

(07:24):
of your god given rights and and try
to
give
themselves the power to now manipulate and pull
the strings
and to grant and to
restrict,
even though the plain text of the second
amendment
says
those
words that they can never get away from,

(07:44):
shall not be
infringe.
And yet,
here we are.
July
seventeenth, the day before my birthday. What a
birthday present I'm gonna get tomorrow when they
vote this
unconstitutional alba
into

(08:05):
into a
effect. Right?
It's a hundred and 11 page document.
The original house version was a hundred and
40 pages. The senate version was a hundred
and 22.
And now they've paired it down
to a palatable
and they
delicious

(08:25):
bite sized chunk of
unconstitutional
regulation
into a hundred and 11 pages,
and their subtlety does not go unnoticed.
They
have put some things in there that we
would ordinarily probably be fine with. But because
it's buried into a bill that is loa

(08:46):
sum. It is d.
It is
unconstitutional, and I argue it is treason.
Then they hope
that you will come alongside them and say,
well, it's got some good stuff in there.
And therefore,
we're gonna rip the
constitution of shreds before your eyes.

(09:06):
And
that's where we stand today.
Ironically, it seems to be a theme.
07/20/2016,
2 days after my birthday while, I was
celebrating my birthday was... Some family by playing
golf.
The
attorney general's
regulation enforcement letter dropped,

(09:26):
on gun stores everywhere in Massachusetts
where they threatened
to find you with a 10000 dollar fine
if you dared
oppose
the Mo He Edi where she acted is
all 3 branches as... Of government.
The enforcement branch
which she already was in the... As the
attorney general,

(09:47):
to enforce what?
New laws that she herself created.
And guess what?
The legislature applauded her.
And
then
she became the judicial branch of government by
rein
old law.
Law
that was signed into

(10:09):
into law in 19 98,
which was a exact duplicate or copy of
the 19 94 assault weapons band. Now, I
wanna refresh everyone's memory.
When we lived
collectively
throughout the country under the 94 assault weapons
ban.
Did any

(10:29):
state
attorney general. That's 50 states for those of
you sitting in the back.
50
state attorney generals did any of them
come up with the language
that more Hill came up with in 20
16.
Did the attorney general, the Us attorney's office

(10:50):
or the attorney general of the United States
interpret the 94 assault weapons ban the same
way that Mori heal did.
No.
10 years, we lived under this for the
letter of the law for 10 solid years.
And there were 50 state attorney generals that
didn't see it the way more He did.
There was
the Us attorney's office and attorney general's office

(11:13):
that didn't see it the way more a
heal sa.
And we have been living in this state,
again, under the threat of government violence and
deprivation of hard earned funds
since 19,
I'm sorry, since 20 16.
When she acted as all 3 branches of
government and gave forth her Edi. Well, guess

(11:35):
what?
The conference committee thought it was a good
idea. To emerge
from their
closed door meetings
for 3 months with cod language, taking more
heel opinion
and putting it into law.
So they are acknowledging that, hey, yeah. This
wasn't law before, but it is now

(11:58):
We're gonna make sure it is.
So guess what? The copies and duplicates, the
interchange ability, the similarity of design,
All of this becomes cod language into mass
general laws should, the legislature vote for this
tomorrow.
05:08
4 04/04/2120

(12:19):
is the number if you guys are
interested in calling and talking about this today.
I'm happy to take some calls for the
first hour. We're gonna have a panel in
the second hour
with,
attorney Jason Gui, and we also have Mike
Harris joining us from gun owners action, League.
I I also invited a couple other

(12:39):
people,
who,
I don't know if they'll be able to
make it. I didn't reach out to them
ahead of time. I just sent them the
link and said, join us if you can.
But this is what we... Where we are
on,
07/17/2024.
And,
we're gonna take a lot of time today

(13:00):
to go through this. I got the hundred
and 11 page bill. I also have the
summary of what it does.
So we'll we'll break this down,
kinda
line by line.
So
Number 1, let's go to the comments real
quick. Phone lines are open. I believe,

(13:20):
looks like they are.
And...
Yeah. They're open if you wanna call in.
But
more importantly, it's to really get through this
through this bill.

(13:41):
Thank you very much, Billy. I appreciate that.
That's very nice to of you.
Steve, good to see you again, Bud, Long
time, no see. Come on down.
Sorry. I'm just
reading As comment.
It affects us in California and the whole

(14:02):
United States and the rest will eventually follow.
I agree with this sentiment 100 percent, mike,
we did the math, rough math the other
day,
that about a hundred and 14000...
I'm sorry, a hundred and 14000000
people are affected by either an assault weapons
ban or a magnet capacity ban or both.

(14:24):
10 states, including and including district of Columbia,
have assault weapons bands,
and then you got another 3 or 4
states that are
mag capacity bands, and those are...
You think, oh, 10:11
states. Okay? Well, guess what? That makes up
almost a third of the country.
So
those

(14:45):
states are
significant
populations. The largest
states in the in the
country, basically, California, New York
are
affected by mad capacity bands and arms bands.
So
you know, I know the natural sentiment is
to say, just move to a free state.
Well, you think a hundred and 14000000

(15:07):
people can just up uproot and move.
And then the gunners are gonna be happy.
Now, come on. Don't kid yourself.
It is coming soon to a city near
you. We must defeat it here. We must
defeat it now. This is the time to
fight, and this is the time to hold
our,
politicians accountable.

(15:27):
And guess what's coming in November,
the exact opportunity to do that.
So here I am on the air with
you guys. I'm not calling the the state
house switch board asking to speak to,
but I did text my state senator, and
I texted
and have been texting my state rep who
is

(15:47):
securely in our corner on this. He's confident
that all Republicans will stay together on this
bill tomorrow on up down vote.
The senate,
we have 4 Republican senators in the state
and 1,
we're already jumped ship and made this a
bipartisan Bill And he happens to be
the house minority

(16:09):
leader.
So,
you know, we can't even keep 4 state
senators together. They
are, you know, already split.
So,
anyway,
Sorry. My son is texting me. And

(16:32):
anyway,
long and short of it is,
we need to
make our voices known, send emails, text,
if you have their tech... If you have
their cell number.
Troll them on social media, which we've been
doing and I've been doing it for months.
And I know it seems like it's not
doing anything. But the truth of the matter

(16:53):
is,
I believe it is.
I believe it has.
It's certainly making them think about it, but,
Let's see.
Yeah. G webb. That'll be
29 plus 30. How's that?
I did my fingerprints with local police. 3
months ago, still waiting to get my license.

(17:14):
Yeah. And, you know, the whole licensing scheme
is another whole thing.
I'm working on something along that line, but
3 Anyway, to make a lie acceptable also
includes sma of truth, good point, Billy.
Rights come from our creator and certainly, our
absolute and the bill of rights only recognizes
these and does not grant them. That's true.

(17:34):
I've had this argument though with fellow gun
owners that they don't believe our rights are
granted by our creator because they wanna have
this agnostic approach.
And,
you know, that's a very shallow way of
looking at it. I've I always maintain that,
okay.
Then where is right and wrong, where does
morality come from.
If not by our creator then who, just

(17:55):
by man making it up. Well, we know
the book of proverbs says the way of
a man is right in his own eyes.
That's not good,
because you could have people like,
you know, osama Bin Laden making the laws
for you. And he says it's good. And
you say it's not.

(18:16):
I don't believe in the same thing. So
where do we get the moral standard from?
Thank you for the birthday wishes, God bless.
You to, Lawrence.
Funny my state rep is in hiding, and
my senators acting like, he doesn't know what
I'm talking about. He probably doesn't due
I guarantee they just got the language

(18:38):
because I was texting my state rep hours
ago, and he still didn't even have the
language. I knew before him that it dropped.
So think how crazy that is.
So
Alright. Let's get into this a little bit,
and
prepare to be nausea.
Let's see.

(18:59):
If I can
do this.
Alright. I'm gonna do this.
Here we go. This is the summary.
We'll go through this quickly because that will
touch on more points,

(19:20):
and
that'll help,
I think
get to where we are. Conference committee summary,
licensing of firearms,
consolidate and reorganize current firearms, licensing sections into
a single unified process. Doesn't that sound exciting
government is efficient
with

(19:40):
consistent standards, procedures, including license to carrier F
cards, licenses to sell,
what that's a license sell. Is that talking
about my licenses, the gun license, you know,
dealer license and license to sell Ammo? I'm
sure it does permits local licensing authorities to
request prior license and permit information from the
department of Sea aegis,

(20:02):
as part of their application review that's the
Department of Criminal justice information services, which you
are all
a member of should you have a license
to carrier or an F card.
Same group of people, good folks over there,
keeping track of the... Those that are in
the system for criminal activity. Isn't it ironic?

(20:22):
Someday Dave will just be able to flick
that switch and next thing, you know, we're
all on the other side of the equation.
You know side of the coin.
Ensures licensing authorities have access to mental health
histories and involuntary
commitments of applicants
requires an individual to be 21 years of
old
to buy semi automatic rifles and shotgun or

(20:42):
own them. 18 to 20 year olds may
still possess rifles and shotgun. So your rights
are just
cut in half. They're not totally.
They're just halved.
So let's go to the phones real quick.
I wanna be
wanna be...
I'm gonna give time to those who wish

(21:04):
to call the show. So
let's see here.
Stand by 1 sec.
Hold on 1 quick sec. Let me get
you over.
I didn't... The 1 time I didn't port
over.
Give me 1 sec.
God.

(21:25):
I just gotta get my bluetooth connected.
Alright.
And...
Alright. Can you hear us?
I can. Can you hear? Yeah We got

(21:47):
you loud and clear. Alright. Go ahead. I'm
sorry for the little trouble there. But
no problem.
No
no problem.
This is
Andrew from Fa haven mask.
Longtime time shopper at your store, and
I just had a few questions about the
current legislature, which I think I already know

(22:07):
the answer to.
But let's say this past tomorrow, which we
all know it's gonna... Yeah. So 2 years
from now, I wanna buy sig comes out
with a new version of the Mp x.
It's off the table now. We can't buy
up.
Yeah. You're kinda jumping in the gun,
Andrew Butt.
There is a legacy provision or a grandfather

(22:28):
in clause in here. So if you buy
it,
you can continue to own it, sell it,
trade it, whatever.
So if there's a silver lining to any
of this, it's that, but that that is
not something that makes me wanna support this
bill in any way, shape or form.
Mh. Right. Right. Yeah. Right. But but down
the line, if they come out with a
new model, you wanna purchase it, we no

(22:48):
longer can. Correct? It has to be
you have to purchase something
that came out before the date end.
Correct. Yes.
Alright Well.
Yeah. Well. Yep. And I'll go through what
those are. We're just starting to get into
the nuance of it. So Right. I'll go
into what the nuance of it is.

(23:10):
But from what I can read, yeah, all
future sales of most modern sporting rifles would
be
illegal.
And so... Wow. Yeah. We'll we'll see see
how it ends up tomorrow, but that's how
it is. Of right now. So...
Right, and and I'm too established share to
move out of state. And, you know, I

(23:30):
I used to kinda share that view. I
just need to move to new Hampshire or
But after listening to you over and over,
the
it's kind of a cop out to move,
you know. Yes. Like, staying here and and
fighting it
it... I don't, you know what I'm saying?
Right.
Well, I appreciate the call, Andrew,
fight the good fight brother.

(23:52):
I appreciate it. Thanks for taking me. Take
care. Okay. Bye. Yep.
Alright. Let's see if I can get to
the other caller here. Nope. I dumped you.
Sorry.
That's operator error on my part.
So if you wanna call me back, I
will take your call. I just

(24:14):
inadvertently dumped you trying to answer it.
05:08 4 04/04/2120.
Alright. Let's
go back to
Matt, That's a good question.
It's on the go website
gold dot org.
Let's see here.
Gold dot org is the website where you

(24:35):
can read the final bill,
which we're gonna
I'm gonna show on the scene screen pretty
in a minute here.
But
before we do that, let's go back to
my screen share and
we'll get through this. I promise.

(24:56):
It might be a little interrupted with
phone calls. But...
Alright. So,
that's that licensing.
Moly sorry. Here's the callback. Licensing
has all kinds of stuff in it without
with failing to report lost or stolen firearms.

(25:19):
So it's gonna be an interesting
it's gonna be... Whole hold on 1 sec
caller. It's gonna be interesting to see how
that all plays out plus. Also fines for...
Failing to renew. So anyway, Alright. You're next
on Rapid fire. How are you today?
How are you doing? Toby? Good. Thanks.
I'm 1 of your customers down the road

(25:40):
in pharma, and I just wanted to remind
you that it is possible to leave the
state of Massachusetts.
If you take the rest of your city
government with you.
They can actually become part of New hampshire
and in the process, it would weaken the
political group.
Controlling those state house quite a bit in
the process.
There is also a national security community

(26:02):
that's actually quite large
and it's possible that they may choose to
prosecute
the current holders of office in the State
of Massachusetts.
Well... Because the National security community is not
gonna tolerate this. Yeah. That would be music
to my ears because it certainly
seems like...
Any...
There should be a recall at the very

(26:23):
least for M
because they violate their oath of office. Right?
Right now... Agree. Right now, nobody
is holding them accountable for breaking their oath,
and they don't even believe they have.
When I spoke to Julian Sears office, I
spoke to 1 of his aides, he said
that, oh, the senator would never support legislation

(26:44):
that is
unconstitutional.
And I said, really? You know,
he voted for this bill. That's
unconstitutional. So basically, they think the constitution is
some... Sliding scale document that,
you know, Oh I agree. That they...
Go ahead. I'm... I even had problems with
Eye
did some secret work for the Air force,

(27:06):
and
I've had problems with prop try to illegally
seize it.
Mh and I had to turn them over
between Intelligence agency. Yeah.
And,
they were absolutely horrified at the behavior of
the Massachusetts government. Yeah. And as a result,
I think there's going to be some pretty
bad political payback.
They're going to get hurt bad whether they

(27:27):
recognize or not. Mh
there's gonna be somebody coming after.
I hope so, because I don't think that
it should be,
just a open checkbook on what they can
do without having
ramifications. And most people,
lawyers, I'm sure that are gonna join the

(27:47):
show later. Are gonna tell me that the
only check on on
constitution is is
is the
ballot box. So thanks for the call, man.
I appreciate it and keep listening.
Let's go over to the phones here again,
your neck on rapid fire. How are you
today?

(28:08):
Hello? Hello?
Fox
How's it going? Calling?
Oh, just turn down your whole. Turn down
your computer, so we we don't get that
feedback or just mute it for now.
Because you're coming through lab on the on
the back end. Hello... Yep. Yep. III...
My Youtube was delayed. I didn't know that
I would so that I was on. Yes.
You're, a long time... Yep. Long time listening

(28:30):
Toby. I'm 1 of the people who's gonna
be affected by this. I'm an f holder
this on 21.
I'm wondering,
and I know this is gonna affect you
hunt as very negatively elaine youth sports shooters
and and I'm very sad to see that
provision in the bill. Do you know if
there's gonna be a
a grand grandfather clause, or is there gonna
be a gun buy back for
current new hunters and youth sports loan

(28:53):
now band guns under 21, and... What how
is this gonna work? Is it gonna be
a aca style buy or you gonna have
to turn them in? They're like, how is
this all gonna work now? No. There is
my grandfather in clause
provision in this, not that it makes it
any better.
Honestly, I wish it didn't have it. Because
I would love to see them be faced
with stacking up and going door to door

(29:14):
or
you know, mass
disobedience to
unconstitutional laws. But now they've they've decided to
go
in
take the easy way out and grant a
language that would allow you to continue to
own

(29:37):
whatever gun you buy prior to the enactment
of the bill. The way that typically works,
let's say it gets voted in, and signed
tomorrow.
It'll get sent tomorrow Heal desk before August
first,
and I'm sure she'll sign it with some
big...
Press conference and bunch of
oath breaking
politicians standing around her, and then

(30:00):
it'll either have a hundred and 20 days.
It's kind the the way it is. We
can talk to Mike Harris about this from
goal in the in the 05:00 hour. But,
generally speaking, it's anywhere from 90 to a
hundred and 80 days from the signing of
the bill to go into effect.
And then after that date, you can keep
what you got, you can sell what you

(30:21):
got, but you can't get more of it.
So that's the way it's gonna go.
Thank you very much for explaining this. Is
there... Could there maybe be an effort started?
Like they have another states to 2 for
this because I know other courts and other
states have found hand Gun 04:20 ones are
constitutional much less,
Long gun. Is that something that we could

(30:42):
Sat, Massachusetts? Yes. In
that the problem with that is, it has
to be signed in the law first, and
then somebody has to be harmed
by it in order to have standing to
sue.
And it's... What are you gonna sue for?
Because,
you know, this bill is a comprehensive
omni bus bill. It covers

(31:02):
like, a hundred and 11 pages worth the
gun law. So
you're only gonna be harmed by 1 thing
at a time. Right? You can't
take a hundred and 11 page bill and
say, I'm harmed by all of this even
though you are.
But in reality, the practical
application of it is it's gonna be 1
thing at a time.

(31:23):
And so really, we gotta challenge the salt
weapons band part of it. We gotta challenge
the licensing part of it. We gotta challenge
the
sensitive places location part of it. All separate,
and that's
you know, I'm no lawyer, but we'll talk
to Jason Gui in the second hour about
that.
There might even be some
relief, which
as we're finding isn't working well for the

(31:46):
second amendment movement. It's almost better to lose
quick and get it to the Supreme Court.
But, anyway, we'll we'll talk about that as
well in second hour a lot.
But, yeah, It's a it's a bad day
here in Massachusetts. So... We'll get into more
of this bill, so keep listening and and
we'll we'll talk about it further.

(32:06):
Thanks for the call, bud. Thanks. Yep. Thank
you very much. Fine. 05:08 4 04/04/2120
is the number.
Alright. Let's get right to the part everyone
wants to know about. Alright. Assaults. Style firearm.
That's a new term. It's no longer a
assault weapon. It's a salt style
firearm.
Is a semi automatic center fire rifle

(32:28):
with the capacity to accept a detachable feeding
device and includes at least 2 of the
following features. What are the 2 features?
Alright. A folding and tele stock or tele
stock. That's always been there. Here's a new
1.
A thumb hole stock.
That's a new 1. Pistol grip always been

(32:50):
there. A forward grip or second hand grip
or pro,
Son of a gun, sorry, or protruding grip,
that can be held by the non trigger
hand. That's a new 1.
A threaded barrel capable of accepting a flash
suppressor,
forward hand grip or silence, by the way,

(33:11):
that threaded barrel and flash the suppressor has
always been there. Forward hand grip or silence
sir, both of those are, the silence has
always been there, but the Forward hand grip
is new
and get this a shroud.
That circles either all or part of the
barrel designed to shield the bearer hand from
heat.

(33:32):
Excluding a... Slide that include en closes the
barrel. So they're excluding a slide on, like,
a semi automatic pistol.
But
I can't think of a semi automatic rifle
that doesn't have a shroud of some sort.
And doesn't have a protruding hand grip and
doesn't have a detachable magazine.

(33:52):
So
you know, what gives? Maybe the m1 carb
would be able to thread this
needle if it didn't have a flash hide.
Maybe you can get the m1 carb
with just the non threaded muzzle,
and
your 2 detached... Your 2 evil features will
be the stock in the front,

(34:13):
and the detachable magazine.
And that's it. So maybe we can sell
the Rug ranch rifle,
the m1 carb,
and
maybe the Rug Pc carb in certain
configurations,
and kind that's it,
because now this forward
shroud

(34:34):
that either completely or partially
encircle the barrel to keep your hand from
being burned.
It's like,
So look at what they're doing here.
A pistol grip, a vertical 4 grip, a
shroud. These are all things that enable you
to shoot the gun,
more accurately
and have control on the gun. So what

(34:54):
they're saying by this is that they wanna
make sure that you can't accurately
shoot the gun or have control over it.
How insane is that?
It's totally nuts,
because
the whole
19 98

(35:15):
control bill was about
keeping guns in the hands of citizens safe.
So they use the consumer protection Act,
to come up with all this
unconstitutional regulation around how guns will be added
to the firearms roster.
Because we wanna keep people safe
Well, now what you're telling us is you

(35:37):
want us to be a less safe. You
want us to burn our hand when we're
shooting it, trying to shoot it and control
the muzzle rise.
Or you wanna make it so that we're
we aren't as comfortably shooting the gun or
is accurately shooting the gun. Who does that
benefit?
It certainly doesn't benefit the shooter.

(35:57):
Certainly doesn't benefit society and make the public
safer.
Doesn't make any sense.
It only benefits
guess who,
tyrant,
government,
who want to make sure that you don't
have
equal
opportunity
or equal firearms to what they have and

(36:19):
what they possess. Because when they come,
the day they come to insist
on other
unconstitutional stuff that you would never go along
with.
You got nothing to to show for it.
You got nothing but your weber action single
shot, bolt action, break action, double barrel, whatever.

(36:39):
Right?
Check this out. Some new language here, a
semi automatic pistol with the capacity
to accept the detachable feeding device and includes
at least 2 of the following.
The capacity to accept the feeding device that
attaches to the pistol outside the pistol grip
makes it in a full weapon.

(37:00):
A second hand grip or a protruding grip
that can be held by the non trigger
hand. That was kind of a n mfa
thing.
A threaded barrel
capable of accepting a flash suppressor.
So
the new
roster just dropped today by the way. This
was gonna be my whole show,

(37:21):
except
this happened, which Trumps all of it.
But on the brand new
approved weapons roster,
we have the 05:09 tactical
midsize guns,
and we have the Sa so
guns,
both of which have a threaded barrel.
So this language is gonna make existing guns

(37:43):
on the approved weapons roster illegal to possess,
not to mention all the other guns that
had threaded muzzle.
Already. The 05:09 tactical, the
the f
45,
of f x 45 tactical.
There was other guns on there with threaded
muscles that I'm missing the Sig

(38:05):
322,
the taurus t x 22.
I mean, the list goes on and on
and on about the Rug Sr 22, the
Walther p 22.
These are all gonna now be illegal to
own Ci mosquito. I mean, give me a
break. This is ridiculous.
So... And again, the shroud that in in

(38:26):
circles part of the barrel,
that, you know,
en closes it keeps you from being burned.
We want you to be burned when you
shoot.
That's what you deserve
you surf, you peasant, you think you have
a ripe.
You have a privilege, and we're gonna make
sure that it hurts to shoot.

(38:47):
That's basically the way they're going at it.
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Alright. Welcome back.
To rapid fire your weekly show all things
guns freedom. Second amendment in self defense.
Today's day, when we're dropping some very bad
news
on you the Freedom loving American that you

(40:55):
are, and those who've chosen to stay and
remain in the state of Massachusetts,
I appreciate you guys staying in in toe
on the line standing up for freedom.
This is
obviously,
a terrible, terrible
bill. We're just getting into it, and
we're talking about the most egregious 1 right

(41:17):
now, the the salt weapons ban.
So let's get back at it,
and,
the
we'll read it together here. Let me find
my way.
Me see if I am sharing the right.
Yeah. Okay.

(41:37):
Cool.
Let me see if I can zoom in
a little bit on this.
I don't think I can, unfortunately.
And this is just the summary.
So
we're not gonna do that. Alright.
Semi automatic shotgun that includes at least 2
of the following features a folding or tele

(41:58):
stock. A thumb hole stock or a pistol
grip,
a protruding grip for the non trigger hand
or
the capacity to accept a detachable feeding device.
So if it has a the 2 feature
test,
I guess that's them throwing us a bone.
Because right now, it's a single featured test,

(42:19):
but they're gonna make shotgun guns the same
as rifles,
and we'll be able to have a stock
or
1 other evil feature. So, but that doesn't
again,
make me
supportive with this bill.
I don't see any change to the copies

(42:40):
or duplicates
that we already had,
ak, all models,
action arms, military industry U, or Gale alleles,
greta A ar seventies,
the c a ar 15, the FFALFLAR
and FFC,
the Sw at Mac 11 Mac, the 10

(43:02):
Mac 9,
Mac 12, S Au,
Inter tech tech 9, dc 9, tech 22,
in any revolving cylinder shotgun, including, but not
limited to the street sweep and Str 12.
So this is where they've cod
the
attorney general's language.

(43:24):
Any gun,
that
doesn't fit the above category
that is
was sold or owned and registered prior to
20 16,
shall be
apparently not a considered a duplicate or
it'll be

(43:44):
grandfather in or something like that.
Any assault style firearm shall not include
any firearm that is operated by manual bolt
pump lever slide action, firearm that has been
rendered permanently ina opera, but get this.
As you kicked down here,
a semi... Oh, okay. Excuse me, That just

(44:05):
says shotgun now. I thought that originally... That
originally was a fixed magazine
that holds more than 5 rounds.
They they try to throw that in. I
don't know if that's still in there, but
I don't see it.
That must have got stripped out.
But
any
anyway,
they also have language

(44:26):
of readily assembled or readily modified
through a combination of available parts into a
assault
firearm.
So,
you know, if you got a gun that
uses some sort of
delete or whatever that makes it a single
shot or a bolt action or a slide

(44:47):
action or something like that, but you could
easily
throw some parts together and make it semi
auto again,
wrong answer. It's not gonna work.
So under this, but
then there's more definitions. That was just the
definition around that.
It talks about under...

(45:11):
I don't know where the language is, but
it talks about...
The
grandfather
and interestingly enough.
I don't know if,
you know, I'm not an attorney,
but I don't know if
the

(45:31):
part here where it says,
the the firearm shall not be considered a
duplicate or copy if the firearm
identified and causes D e, if sold owned
and registered prior to 20 16.
I don't know if that means
dealers will be able to sell registered guns

(45:51):
that were dealt
were were bought prior to 20 16. If
that's the case,
it'll at least enable us to continue to
deal with them, but I haven't found the
language on that yet.
And
actually, we can't even deal with those now,
so that's 1 thing that we'll be able
to do.
So

(46:12):
let's see if... I don't know if there's
a there's a whole bunch of stuff on
extreme protection orders,
firearm,
look at the definition of firearm, by the
way, A stun gun
pistol revolver
is amazing
that they consider a stun gun of firearm.

(46:32):
Which is designed or may readily be converted
to expel a shot or a bullet, the
frame or receiver of any such firearm,
or the unfinished frame receiver of any such
firearm and provided, however, that firearm shall not
include any antique
firearm or permanently in opera. So now they're
trying to put any

(46:54):
firearm or the unfinished
frame or receiver. Now, that's been struck down
by federal courts.
Bass doesn't care.
They're putting in
unfinished frame is now considered a firearm
under state law. Used to be it had
to go bang, not anymore.
Frame the part of a pistol or revolver
that provides housing or structure for the component,

(47:17):
designed to hold back the hammer strike, Str
or bolt are similarly primarily an energized component
prior to to
initiation of the firing sequence,
blah blah blah.
The they're now recognizing frames as firearms.
This is something that has never been a
part of

(47:38):
mass general law,
but it had to go bang
in order to
be considered a firearm,
And
now that is not the case. So
so large capacity firearm, I don't know if
any changes are here. Is a semi automatic
with a large

(47:58):
capacity,
with a fixed large capacity feeding device.
Alright?
That's interesting large
capacity feeding device, a fixed or detachable magazine
belt drum, feeds strip or similar device that
has a capacity,
of or that can be readily converted to
accept more than 10 rounds, via ammunition in

(48:18):
more than 5 shotgun shells or any part
or a combination of parts
from which a device can be assembled if
those parts are in possession or control the
same person.
Large capacity feeding device shall not include any
device that has been permanently altered so it
cannot accommodate.
Alright,
attached tubular device designed to accept and capable
operating with only 22 caliber,

(48:40):
rim fire or a tubular magazine that is
contained in a lever action firearm or on
a pump shotgun.
So
they're putting in this definition,
and
the
large capacity feeding device,
they now include fixed,

(49:01):
which
I don't know too many people if any,
whoever made a large capacity fixed feeding device.
That doesn't make sense.
But I wonder if this now includes
links.
It doesn't specifically name links, but it says,
a detachable magazine belt
drum, feed strip or similar device.

(49:24):
So when you put them all together, is
it a belt.
When you link them all together,
I don't know. There are belt that are,
like cloth that you can slide the ammo
in,
but
I'm no lawyer. I just...
Have a street level observation of mass general
law, which leads me to

(49:45):
wanting to put hunting in my eyes and
laying
near a fire ant pit.
So
let's see.
Alright. I don't think there's anything else there.
Machine gun fire loaded or run loaded, which
may automatically discharge more than 1 shot.

(50:08):
I wonder if they're banning firearms that was
in the original bill,
excuse me, banning
machine guns.
Right now, they are lawful.
Alright. So I don't know.
It's a hundred and 11 pages folks will
have to get into it,
and we'll see what happens. There's...

(50:29):
All this stuff about un
undetectable,
unfinished frame or receiver, forging casting, printing, extrusion
machine, body or similar. Has reached the stage
and manufacture weight where it may be readily
completed or assembled to function as a frame
or receiver. Of course, there's no definition of
what readily assembled means.
Is marketed or sold to the public to

(50:50):
become or to be used as the frame
receiver of a functional firearm once completed or
assembled
provided, however, that unfinished frame receiver,
receiver shall not
include a component designed and intended for use
in an antique fire,
they love to clarify things. Right? They clear
it up as mud. But don't worry. It
doesn't include anti.

(51:13):
The...
I wonder if we can get antique parts
kits and make a a big frame or
receiver that we can attach anti antique barrels
and stocks do and make,
you know, legal,
large capacity
weapons with antique parts.
They probably wouldn't last long.

(51:33):
But there's a bunch of I did read
a bunch of language already about
you can't have an un serial gun anymore.
You're gonna have to get a serial number
and engrave it.
There's real time
firearms reporting.
There's all this
access to the public now for transparency of

(51:54):
who knows? I'm sure that they'll accidentally reveal
who has what to whom someday,
but that's what that type of thing,
easily gonna be hacked.
And the registration is a big part of
this,
which I have a lawyer who's
said many times, that is the most

(52:14):
unconstitutional part of this is the fact that
they are requiring registration of firearms
and they wanna do it on a public
publicly accessible database and
Here you go. No person shall manufacturer or
assemble a privately made firearm
without obtaining a unique serial number from the
Department of Criminal Justice this information service.

(52:37):
Prior to manufacturer assembly, serial the firearm with
the obtained serial number during manufacturer assembly, and
registering the firearm with the Department of Criminal
Justice information services
in accordance with
section 01:21 b within 7 days
of the manufacturer's firearm,
manufacturer's assembly.
No person shall manufacturer assemble a privately made

(53:00):
firearm that does not comply
all relevant state and federal
regulations,
safety regulations. So that probably means that you
now have to manufacture guns that are
that are
also on the approved weapons roster.
So no longer getting
frames transferred in from

(53:20):
somebody else and,
you know,
transferred so that you can build the gun
in the privacy year of your own home,
and nope. Not doing that anymore.
This is so bad folks.
No person shall use a 3 dimensional printer,
or computer and an Numerical controlling milling machine
to manufacture assemble any firearm within the commonwealth,

(53:43):
without a valid firearms license to carry And,
of course, you're gonna need to be given
that
that
serial number ahead of time,
So let's see.
If this section shall not apply to 3
dimensional printers. Wait a minute. No person shelves.
Cell, offered to sell or transfer 3 dimensional

(54:05):
printer or computer numerical,
controlling machines,
that as the primary or intended function manufacturing
assembling firearms to any person in the commonwealth.
That's ridiculous.
3 d printer or computer numerical milling machine
primary.
Or intended function of manufacturing or assembling firearms
if the printer or machine is advertised marketed

(54:26):
or promoted, to manufacture assemble firearms regardless of
whether the printer or a machine is otherwise
described or classified.
It's having other functions as a general purpose
printer or a machine. So I'm sure that
will mean,
defense distributed,
ghost gunner is gonna be out
according to the masked

(54:47):
legislature here.
It doesn't apply to,
obviously, law enforcement for the sole purpose of
their destruction
of weapons, blah blah blah,
A violation of this section shall be punishable
by imprisonment for not more than 1 year,
fine for 5000 dollars.

(55:07):
I'm sure following
you know, will be
all this is good.
Look at this. The following aggregate data on
the issuance of firearm licenses cards permits pursuant
section,
these sections,
the age gender race ethnicity and municipality of
applicants for a license to carry.

(55:29):
I wonder if this is gonna be like,
the 1 in New Jersey
that will end up back firing on them
because the age
gender, race, ethnicity
municipality of individuals whose applications for license to
carry were denied.
So I guess we'll get to see how
racist Massachusetts is. We already know their anti
civil rights.
So,

(55:50):
anyway,
lot to go over guys, we don't have
time for it at all,
but there you have it. If you wanna
stay up forever.
It's gonna be
ridiculous. It's a crazy bill. We'll talk about
it more
with our panel of guests in the second
hour.
But

(56:11):
just insane.
And
I can't I can't
dream up a worse scenario
than,
what we have today,
it is just a an
abomination
and
frankly,
we should all be pissed off about it.

(56:31):
There's no question about it.
Alright. Let's get to the chat before we
go to the end of the hour here.
Let's see.
Po
politicians have their generic form style letters they
send back to you no matter what the
question is. It covers it. Yeah. No doubt
about it. Yeah. Tomorrow, we're gonna need a

(56:51):
road trip. Thank you for saying that, John.
We're gonna need Patriots. To be at the
state house tomorrow for this vote.
Wearing in their shirts, we're bringing their signs.
I don't know if the lead signs in,
but, you know, roll them up, stick them
in your pocket,
and this is really, really important.
I don't know that we're all gonna be
criminals yet, but

(57:12):
we'll see what happens.
It's... You're exactly right, Larry. It's tools
and a sheep deciding what's for dinner. Guess
who wins that 1.
Any comments
on the lower court ruling the
unconstitutional laws banning citizens 18 to 21 from

(57:32):
purchase. Singing public carry.
I haven't got a chance to really
dive into that. I know it's a massive
win,
I forget even what
jurisdiction it was.
Maybe you guys could help me out on
that, but I think it was a...
Might have been a fifth circuit
ruling. I I just can't remember. I did

(57:52):
read about it.
Maybe it's on Ammo land or bearing arms
or something like that, but I haven't got
a chance to dive into it because I'm
still so
still so
let's see if we can figure it out
real quick.
Oh, by the way,
the federal judge
rejected

(58:14):
the government's excuses for banning homemade liquor.
Which is not an en right.
We do know that it is since I
think the 20.
Third amendment or something like that. Right? Or
the 20 sixth amount. I can't remember which
granted your ability to buy alcohol again, but
it wasn't 1 of the original intended

(58:36):
en rights that you have the right to
buy alcohol, although you don't need to pan
everything down, you know, freedom is free.
But they ruled that self made spirits are
constitutional. You can do it.
So why the heck?
Can't we do homemade firearms, Right? Or quote

(58:56):
unquote guns.
That's more of a right than
alcohol was for long time in this country.
Right? So anyway, that's something we were gonna
talk about till this blew up in our
face.
But
Yeah. The...
I don't remember where the
maybe you guys can help me out.

(59:19):
The 18 to 21 year olds.
I think it was the fifth circuit if
I don't, if I'm not mistaken. But anyway,
different day.
Great question.
Am I missing it are there increased gun
laws against actual criminals using guns.
Oh me and Larry. Thank you for that
moment of,

(59:39):
Levi here to a very
dark and ominous day.
That is awesome. I greatly
appreciate that comment,
because, you know,
that would be
that would be amazing. And, in case you
didn't see the goal podcast that they put
out a couple days ago about that.

(01:00:01):
They were actually in 1 of the meetings
and maybe Michael talk about this when we
have them on here in a second that,
the the politicians thought, there isn't really a
way to separate the good guys and the
bad guys.
Yeah, go figure. Alright.
Go to a quick break, and we will
be back on the other side
with

(01:00:21):
an exciting
panel of guest. We have Mike Harris and
Jason Guy joining us, and
we'll see if some of the other guys
join in, but
right now, we're gonna do a quick kind
of the week video and we'll be back
after this. So,
don't go away.
Time for another rapid fired, 1 of the
week.

(01:00:44):
This week's gonna of the week.
Is a mystery.
Even I don't know what it is.
That's right. I asked our general manager, Adam
to come up with a mystery bag.
This is a throwback to when we were

(01:01:05):
doing live streams during Covid, and everyone sitting
at home, board didn't know what to do
with themselves. So I just started putting some
mission 3 bags together,
jammed them full of cool stuff, knocked 10
percent off everything in the bag,
and people would buy them. I mean, they've
sold within seconds through The phone would ring.
Someone would be like, hey, a mystery bag

(01:01:25):
sold, and I'd say, wow, that's amazing. You
guys have a lot of trust in me
of my ability to pick stuff out. Well,
I have a lot of trust in my
general manager's ability to pick stuff out. He's
got great taste.
And I would say this bag, the 1
thing you obviously know is you get this.
Fox tactical
go bag, which is a very nice backpack
in and of itself.

(01:01:46):
And the only other thing I know about
it is you need to have a light
since to carry in order to buy it
if that you're in Massachusetts,
or it needs to be shipped to an
Nfl if somebody out of state buys it.
But I will say that everything in the
bag, including the bag is 10 percent off
just like we did
4 years ago. And I wouldn't worry too

(01:02:07):
too much about the content of what's in
this. All good stuff, all stuff you're gonna
need. It's...
Pretty neat, and I've never had someone disappointed
who's bought 1 of our mystery bags. So.
If you feeling in luck piece. And you're
feeling like taking a chance.
This bag is about 710
bucks total with all the content side. I

(01:02:28):
don't even know what they are. I can't
even begin to hint. But
wicked cool.
If you're feeling, like taking a gamble,
do it. Why not. Right? That's it.
It sounds like it's got some good stuff
in there and it's it's heavy, but
that's this week's it's gone of the week.
I don't know what's in it. So you're
gonna have... Trust us or trust Adam. If

(01:02:49):
you won't be disappointed. I promise. Go over
to rapid by a radio, scroll down to
kind of the week, click on it.
And use code G0W at checkout for a
very special savings during this week's kind of
the week. We'll just give it a call
at the shop. We'll take care. Thanks so
much for tuning in. And I'll see you
on Rapid fire.

(01:03:14):
Alright. Welcome back to rapid fire. You weekly
show all things guns freedom, second amendment and
self defense.
And I'm happy to have with us today,
a couple of great second amendment patriots.
Attorney Jason Guy, and Mike Harris from gun
owners action league, and Arlo, the wonder dog
here sleeping in the corner. I'm gonna try

(01:03:36):
to get him
say goodbye to Harlow. Awesome.
He's having a good time over here in
the morning. So,
anyway, it's good to laugh for a minute
before we get into the head butting nuance
of this
amazing bill that has dropped. It's which we
all knew was coming, like, a freight train
down the railroad tracks.

(01:03:57):
And,
guys, I just wanna thank you both for
being here today making yourselves available. Let's of
course.
Nice.
Start with Jason. What's your first initial reaction
to this
abomination? Sure. Well you're not gonna wanna hear
this. I think they probably it worse.
Agree a lot. It could've have been a
lot worse. Yeah

(01:04:18):
But there's definitely some land mines in here
that are gonna catch some people.
You know, I'm definitely...
You know, from my end of it concerned
about, you know,
potential clients, got guys that are out there,
they're gonna unknowingly...
Violate
a number of these provisions.
There are a couple of,

(01:04:39):
you know, little things in there that we
might actually like, but it all in all,
generally,
there's some serious problems here. Mh. Mh. Yeah.
And,
Mike, why don't we get your initial reaction
to this bill? I'm sure it's
you know, everything you've ever hoped and dreamed
of. Right? Yeah. I mean, it's it's it's

(01:04:59):
not the end of the world, but, you
know,
the... How many seals are there, 7. So
this is the sixth 1 opening up?
You know, it's, like, like Jason said, I
mean there's a couple of things in here
that are
okay. I mean, there's there's some stuff about
non residents
and hunting and and caring and they kind

(01:05:20):
of go even further than. They kind of
a go even further than Fo in this
for transportation, but, you know, the assault weapons
stuff or I'm sorry. The assault style firearms
stuff is is an abomination
off the top.
And then, you know, there's
there's a whole bunch of,

(01:05:42):
like Jason said, there's a whole bunch of
land mines in this. 1 of the objections
that, you know, has offended me and my
sensibilities ability since the beginning, like
has been the fact that in order to
get standing to challenge some of this stuff.
People could gonna have we could charge with
a crime and end up in in jail
for a while. It's it's that's not okay.
Yeah. That's something that

(01:06:04):
you know, everybody who... Everybody in the chat
is saying, you know, what can we do?
Can we sue? Can we do this I
said, yeah. It's a hundred and 11 page
bill? Yeah. How do you sue for a
hundred and 11 page... Like, you gotta show
your harmed. Right? Jason And it's... Exactly. It's
not even the fact that it's a hundred
and 11 pages. It's, you know, it affects,
you know, however, many sections of law in

(01:06:26):
different ways, and you have to figure out
outstanding for each 1 of those. Right. Alright.
So...
So our constitutional issues are arrays in each
each individual section too. So... Yeah. Mh.
Now 1 of the things someone in the
chat just
actually brought up was the the
the case last week that came down. I

(01:06:46):
think it was in the fifth circuit court
of appeals,
about the 18 to 21 year olds,
being able to buy a gun or whatever.
And and I I think it was for
semi automatic rifles like Ar 15 or something
like that,
And so they ruled that the law was
unconstitutional there. Obviously, it doesn't affect us here
in Massachusetts.

(01:07:08):
But
it's certainly
precedent right, that we could then challenge
the... This... The 1 section of this bill
that is really
setting 18 to 20 year olds into a
second class of society. They have the right
to vote. They have the right to serve
in the military. They can you know, carry

(01:07:28):
a gun for our nation, but yet here
in Massachusetts. They won't be able to eye
what gun they want as a
adult. So
do you think that that
precedent in another state would help or no?
Well, I think the fifth circuit gonna get
to this pro court before we ever will.
So...
It's 1 of those things where, like, if
they're they're ahead of us, let them do

(01:07:48):
it, I guess.
And I think, honestly, I
that's 1 of the things that I think
the supreme court, frankly, I even the supreme
court, you know, scholar by any means, But
I think that that's something they're gonna ent
when they're looking at
historical analog and, you know,
18 year olds as adults being able to
carry conventional alarms. So Right.

(01:08:09):
Now,
how
let's let's assume this the worst happens this...
Get signed into law tomorrow and sent to
the, governor's desk, which... I'm sure it's pretty
likely to happen. Yep. None of us, I
don't think are are you know, if you're
a realist, you you pretty much know what's
going gonna happen. But...

(01:08:31):
So,
is there a way to challenge this without
actually be being arrested or something like that?
Like Michael Car
with the bump stock ban?
He went and surrendered his 2 bump stocks
to the Atf under protest
and immediately filed a lawsuit and said, I
did it under protest so that I don't

(01:08:52):
get arrested and thrown in jail. Like, is
that a a legal strategy that could be
employed here in Massachusetts?
I'm gonna say it's kinda too early to
tell on how we're we're gonna approach it.
I've had conversations. Just briefly, but this bill
dropped what an hour ago. Yeah.
You know, not even. Yeah. And I mean,

(01:09:13):
it's hard to say right now that,
they're
you know, there is a way to challenge
it without some sort of. And really, like,
you know, are there taking here? Right are
there,
you know,
direct effects right now or or are these
kind of more constitutional questions that can be
addressed at a later day?

(01:09:35):
It's not clear yet. To be honest. Right?
Yeah. And and as a first cursor glance
of this, it looked to me, like,
Jason
the... And Mike, you were nodding in your
head that it could have been worse. So
it seems like there's some
provision in there for grant... True grandfather, not
just a legacy provision. Is that the way
you guys see it?

(01:09:56):
So I don't know if
so the... This version that we have right
now, I'm I'm told is not
the
actual finished version. So
I can't really speed just... I know. Right.
Of course. The whole process this thing.
Yeah. Oh, how many different numbers did it
have, But, anyway, oh I know. I know

(01:10:17):
I know. But... No... I'm I'm told this
is a working draft that somehow
squeak out of the conference committee.
And I... The
there is a... The the completed language is
still with,
house senate counsel, so they're still examining it.
So I I don't know.
There are some discrepancies between the official

(01:10:39):
Caucus summary that we got. That's up on
our website that everybody's seen and this version.
So,
you know,
take that with a a salt mine,
and,
you know,
decide, you know, once everything comes out, the
the final version comes out, my my apologies.
We'll see what it actually looks like. But

(01:11:00):
as of right now, this language only has
grandfather in clause back to July of 20
16. So... Right. Yeah. Toby, that's the. Like,
number 1 on my list of land mines.
Is that they're incorporating
the copy and duplicate fan of the 8...
Of the Ag enforcement notice
and they're setting it to the date it

(01:11:21):
was
issued. So,
you know,
there are people out there that have either
knowing or unknowingly purchased or built out weapons
that are now
go into the unlawful unless they were registered
before that date.
Yeah.
You know, and I can say... I mean,
I I think I mentioned this to you

(01:11:42):
privately Toby, I represent a gentleman that is
charged with a violation of that enforcement no
right now. So
it does look like, you know, number 1,
and I think you saw the dealer.
The the language about dealer inspections and now
the state police can take it over. Mh.
There are trainings on this, and now, you

(01:12:04):
know, they're gonna be looking at dealers. They
can trace those Fa tens back to whoever
purchases things at. And, you know, start knocking
on the doors. So I think people who
have these things
should
be careful.
Yeah. And and speaking,
to that in kind of an ancillary way.
I mean, that's that's the scary part of

(01:12:25):
a registry. That's what we're all afraid of.
And that's and they're using the word registry
in this. Yeah. It's it's just an
anymore. Yeah. They're not even hiding it. And
that's... And you know that that's the intent.
I mean, Jason, you explained it you explained
it a lot better than I could have.
That's
that's the point. That's what they're going for.
They're they're gonna be...
Using that registry to go back through those

(01:12:47):
Fa 10 forms and
figure out who has what and when they
had it and what they're gonna do with
it. But, I mean, like you said, I
I don't know if they're gonna jump right
off the bat and start going after people
criminal,
or if it's gonna become a problem for
you when you go and try to renew
your license or if you go and try
to, you know, purchase something else if that

(01:13:08):
becomes...
You know,
well, what of these things become a firearms
crime for the purposes of prohibition, you know?
Yeah. And so the thing that
ir me the most is the new definitions
of a assault firearm,
assault cell fire.
Right. Which
has some new features
that never before

(01:13:30):
we're there. We have thumb whole stocks. We
have
a, vertical 4 grip is now. But the
1 that really gets me
is the shroud that encircle the barrel either
in part or in full, keep your hand
from being burned while firing the weapon. Much
they all have. Yeah. Every single every single
gun... I mean, an 1 grand to has

(01:13:51):
has wood. Right on it. For christ's sake.
The am carb being, the m... The the
Rug ranch rifle. So my... Has you know,
it's still a 2 featured test. There was
talk originally about it going down to a
1 featured test, which would have definitely universally
banned all semi Toby. This this... That that

(01:14:11):
feature effectively makes it a 1 feature test.
Because they right. I mean, exactly. You're right.
That's a great point because if what gun
doesn't. I think I can think of like,
the Tn
arrow
take down rifle. Yeah. I mean it... It's
it's funny. That's massachusetts Yeah. I mean Massachusetts
and California are gonna be in competition now

(01:14:32):
for the most ridiculous looking compliant rifles. Right.
Yeah.
I imagine what it'll look like. It'll have,
like, the New York style stock, You know,
barrel shroud. I mean, they they want you
to shoot the gun without being able to
grip it. So be you're you're gonna you're
gonna have to sell Ar
with with an open barrel and oven mitt.

(01:14:53):
That'll be the new accessory. You'll love to
my oven mitt. I love that.
Alec like Ke oven
the beforehand. Yeah. That would be we're gonna
call it the mass game stand. The mask
the mass compliant for.
For
Oh, man, But that might... Once you hold
the gun, does it now be constructive,

(01:15:14):
you know,
application and build The vertical for, You know?
I I just love that all of these
and,
rules and and legislation that's they're starting to
prom gate are all about making firearms less
easy to control. New I think that's hilarious.
Yeah. We talked... In a really cynical crave
way. I think that's so funny. I just...
It's ridiculous me. We talked about that in
the first hour, how of 98, it was

(01:15:36):
all about... You know, consumer protection act, making
people safer by not being able to buy
guns that aren't safe for the public to
use. Like. And now we're like, we wanna
make sure they're, like, borderline reckless if you
use this gun, you know, be firing over
the be just because the barrel so hot.
Yeah.

(01:15:57):
So candidate are yeah.
But here's the concern I have about what
you just brought up, and I I didn't
read the whole bill, but in the summary,
it seemed like there was a grandfather provision
in the in the in the actual bill.
I couldn't find out which other than, like
you just pointed out the 07/20/2016.
Time date. How all be... Going 09/13/1994

(01:16:21):
still. So you're back to for that date.
Right. Right Right. But there's bill... There's guns
that have been sold since 07:20 16 that
aren't en on the ban.
But have those 2 features to them. Right?
They have a
shroud,
and they have a pistol grip and maybe
even have a vertical 4 grip and a
detachable bag so we're up, the 3 or

(01:16:43):
4 features pretty quick. Yeah. And or a
thumb stock or what about... You know, this...
So there was a lot of ways to
jump through the hoops and get kind of
around and still get what you wanted
it might not have been an Arr or
an ak, but it might have been, you
know, a Robinson Armament and X or a,
you know, a ta or something like that.

(01:17:03):
Where does that leave us with that. You
know, and what is the enforcement of that?
Like, if you you got the police knocking
in it your door show me the receipt
that you bought it prior to 07:20 16.
Give me a break. Yeah. Yeah.
Well, and, again, I think 07:20 16 is
just the copier
duplicate language
what. Right.
They're adding these new features, which, you know,

(01:17:25):
again, the features test was 09/13/1994.
And now they're adding you write the shroud.
Does that mean everything that was sold after
that date with
the shroud is now unlawful to possess? I,
you know,
hundred pages. I'm trying to figure out whether
there's a hidden grandfather clause on page 01:10
that I haven't gotten to yet.

(01:17:47):
There isn't. I. Isn't. Right. Yeah. I mean,
Yeah.
So I don't I don't know if they
thought this out and that may be...
You know, 1 of those, you know, preliminary
injunction type scenarios where,
you know, by changing the features, they're making,
you know, thousands
that
hundreds thousands of people keep possessing illegal things,

(01:18:11):
you know, And with know, by the way,
no way of getting rid of it. Like,
you know, other states have imposed these types
of things created a...
Time period in which you can now get
rid of these things. There's no way to
do that. So on the day signs, if
we're reading it the right way. And again,
you know, Mike and I both forth and
the site surely both, you know, we're trying

(01:18:32):
to bills real quick.
But
we may be missing something if we're meeting...
Reading it the way we think we're all
reading it.
You know, we're all gonna be phones in
a week. Right? Yeah. Right. There's a there's
a lot of this stuff. So the last
4 pages
from what I can see are all effective
dates.
And they're all, like, 6 months to 18

(01:18:54):
months out. So who the hell knows at
this point? I mean, I I think a
lot of that stuff is in there to
bump up against the
cases that are moving through this... That are
moving through the the federal courts at the
moment. So
we'll see, I guess, but it it's it's

(01:19:14):
bizarre. I mean, it it's
there's no wiggle room for a lot of
this stuff, and it's it's a
it's a real... It it feels like a
real Gotcha.
Yeah. I gotta show you guys something really
funny because you just talked about Jason how
tough to read a hundred and 11 pages
and you have good experience doing that, but,
no, just drop. Which makes you wonder how

(01:19:34):
they're gonna pass this thing tomorrow. Right? Right.
It's So I figured I'm cheat. I'd just
cheat. So I dumped it into chat Gp
and said is there a grandfather provision. And
look at what it tells me. The message
you submitted was way too long.
Please we will think get something shorter.
And
Even... It's too long for chad Gp.

(01:19:56):
We're in trouble. So oh, my lord. I
don't I don't think the speaker is as
smart as Tread. Gp. Who the hell knows?
You know, and Mike referenced, so they came
out with this caucus summary that Popped out
around noon time, I think today or 2
01:00 or 2. Thank you for that by
the way. Yeah. I no. Absolutely. So but

(01:20:18):
the
The thing is is that the... You just
said how the is gonna read this by
tomorrow. They're not. They're gonna read that caucus
summary, which, by the way,
is wrong in some places, I think and
just completely...
Exactly. Yeah. So... I mean, that... That's what
happened earlier on in this process when they
made their first... When you know, they made

(01:20:40):
his first overt chair to the Democratic Caucus,
they handed out the summary. And we got
a copy of it and we had already,
you know, we had already written hours, and
we went through and really like, what the
hell? This is
so misleading and and completely wrong in half
the in half the areas, and we... You
know, it was when we started had a
relationship with his office. And we called up
and we said, what what is this? This
is... Some of the stuff is completely backwards

(01:21:02):
and that was when we realized that
they had no idea what was in this...
In their their version of the bill. So
I I think this conference
they
Not to be a jerk. I think this
conference committee was the first real opportunity that
Mike Day had to read his own bill.
Sure. I'd actually guarantee.
Patrick has aid in his office,

(01:21:24):
was very confident
about certain language in his bill that wasn't
there.
Was wrote this. Yeah. We all know it
was the red codes. Sorry. Red shirts.
Are you you're right the first time. Yeah.
This is... I I wanna assure everyone that
there's 1 provision of this bill that it
doesn't affect, and I thought everyone would would

(01:21:46):
appreciate this.
And it says that this section shall not
apply to any of the following the lawful
defense of life and property,
any law enforcement officer acting in the discharge
of his duties, the discharge of blank cartridges
for theatrical,
athletic, ceremonial or a firing squad.
It doesn't affect the firing squads,

(01:22:08):
which I'd be all in favor of bringing
them back in messaging that. Right? Yeah The
only way that
the
the firing squad is coming back to Massachusetts
is if...
I would say the perfect storm would be
if we had a revolving cylinder shotgun
with a barrel less than 18 inches that

(01:22:30):
was integral
suppressed with a folding,
detachable,
stock or something to that effect. Yeah. It
would bring the firing squad back you know,
quicker than any the legislature would have a
special
summer session. They would come back from vacation
to enact it. Yeah And they would make
the execution exempt from, owning those, so they
could take a shoot you with us.

(01:22:51):
You with that.
Yes.
Unbelievable,
well,
I know this is a lot to digest,
and
we still aren't even through fully
digesting...
The existing mask gun law, which was extremely
arbitrary and capri and confusing,

(01:23:13):
Jason, what do you think?
Is there at a first glance Or any
of this? Do you think that there was
some things accomplished in this
simplifying or coordinating or the
efficiency of government to try to make things
better? Or do you think this just makes
it 10 times worse? Or, you know, is
there gonna be
some things that now are clear that weren't

(01:23:34):
prior to at a first glance?
No. Well, so from a government efficiency, standpoint,
I see really no government efficiency. There's no
savings here. In fact, there is a a
complete
workload dump on
department of criminal justice information
Right. Which, you know, you know, I used

(01:23:54):
to you know, be over there. They have
no they have no staff. I mean, they
literally have no staff. They're not allowed to
hire new staff as a hiring freeze
They now have to create a registration system,
a new online system,
you know, a magazine
registration serial system.
Yeah.
I don't know how they're gonna do it,

(01:24:14):
manage it or, you know, even if they're
able to get outside contractors to do it.
When you have a question, Toby, and you
need to call someone,
they're not gonna have a person or be
able to help you. And people... Things are
just gonna get logged. There. The police aren't
gonna understand it. They're gonna call seizures. You're
not gonna understand it. You're gonna call seizures.
It's gonna be an absolute log jam, and

(01:24:35):
it's gonna be a nightmare. And So no
government... I don't see government efficiency. I don't
see anything getting done quicker or easier or
faster,
in any way, quite frankly. Mh.
And then, you know, there's a couple of
other land lines if if you guys don't
mind that I definitely leave know, caught.
And I know Toby you were lobbying your

(01:24:56):
legislators is 1 of the things that I
was,
you know, my focus whenever I talked to
someone about.
Was the
expansion of who can file for a red
flag petition?
So
the ex... And every 1 I talked to
was, like, yeah. We understand what you're saying,
but
too bad.
The expansion now includes you know, among other

(01:25:19):
things, a mental health counselor,
a marriage counselor,
a substance to counselor.
So Mh, you know, you're having trouble. You
know, you're having you're drinking too much. You're...
You know, you you're going through a tough
time in your marriage and you wanna sit
down with a marriage counsel and kinda work
it out. You know, you know, you just...

(01:25:39):
You know, your father died, and you wanna
talk to somebody about it, sit those people
are now people who can now report you
to the court and have your guns taken
away. Right?
This statute empowers that. It's basically telling gun
owners,
If you having problems, keep it to yourself.
Like,
I don't think that's what we want. Any
no policy perspective. It's troubling. Right?

(01:26:02):
There's now a section 12 database.
So I'm seeing this all the time where
people,
you know, have,
you know, they get in a fight with
their spouse and, like, I I wish I
was dead rather than marrying you. You know,
hyper.
Police are called they come though, like, oh,
you wish you were dead off to the
hospital you go.
That's not gonna be a database that all

(01:26:23):
licensing authorities are gonna be able to use
to determine your suit ability for a license.
It's gonna be cross
jurisdiction, So maybe you're suitable in 1 town.
Now you're gonna be un suitable in another
town if you move. Right.
To
they are
requiring
all firearms to be serial and registered,
which we talked about a little bit, but

(01:26:46):
for,
you know,
Eons,
people were told if you moved into Massachusetts
from another state and brought your collection with
you, you didn't need to register those weapons.
Right. Well, this statute is now saying otherwise.
And so, you know, imagine you moved here
20 years ago from New Hampshire. And, you

(01:27:06):
know, you're not a big gun guy. Maybe
you go... Went to the range a little
bit. You're getting older now. You don't go.
Those guns are in your closet, they're not
registered. There's no grandfather clause. There's no nothing.
It's just
they're illegal because they're not registered.
Look, people are all gonna have to be
scrambling through their closet,
registering things. You know, you got a frame
or, you know,

(01:27:27):
you know, lower in your closet, You're gonna
have to register those things. Yeah. And that's
that's another that's another land mine. People who
had purchased a bunch of stuff because,
until this bill, and on
a firearm is not considered a firearm messages
until it can fire shot. So most people
who purchased, you know, frames or receivers or
something. They just have them. Yeah. And they're

(01:27:47):
not on Not even way to register them.
Exactly. So so they're... That's a whole pile
of.
Plastic and metal that's just gonna have to
go in a dumpster.
Right. Yeah. I And those people might not
have licenses. They may not have a multi.
Maybe they brought them from maine or you
know, they they, you know, bought up mode
somewhere along the lines. They don't have a
license of carrier. You you know? Fell. And

(01:28:10):
if you'll if you'll permit me a moment.
III
found a
Jim
Jim Wallace, our executive director of Goal,
found a a provision early on. I he
didn't mention what section it was in, but
Right now, it's...
The the personal information of firearms owners in
masters is protected.
This bill eliminates that. It makes all

(01:28:32):
it makes everyone's
information public. If you wanna gun, your
your information is public now. So that's that's
a big 1. I think that might be
1 of the
1 of the more crucial things we need
to attack first, but,
you know, beyond that, there's there's a ton
of other... Case or on... I thought there
was litigation regarding that in another state from

(01:28:54):
maybe 1 or 2 years ago, that I
recall maybe New York, some other state where
that became an issue. I'd...
Yeah. I think it was, like, Connecticut or
someone docs like, every citizen in state, you
know, is, like, state sponsored do to... Basically
say, you only gone to state you're... You
know, here you here you are. Here's what
you got. And here's where you live. So

(01:29:14):
if you guys remember... If you guys remember
last year, they did this
already by accident.
They sent it out to a bunch of
media
organizations. And then, you know, everybody could go
back and then they redacted all the names
after we put up a stink about it.
And then
if you went through it, everyone was saying,
like, oh, I found myself. I found my
buddy, Found my my neighbor. I found my

(01:29:35):
dad just by, you know,
tracking and and connecting all the transactions with
your your, like, found your anonymous pin number.
That they assigned you. But in... You know,
now that's not even gonna be a, a
worry for them at this point,
you know, unless we can, you know, do
something about that or use a precedent. But,

(01:29:55):
another aspect of this that that a lot
of people don't really realize is
even with all of the the new workload
and everything that is put on on
on Cgi and everything.
None of this stuff is attached to 2
a line item.
And is therefore,
essentially not really funded.

(01:30:17):
For for those who don't know, in Massachusetts
the governor has the power of the line
item veto. So in a, in a long...
In a bill like this or, you know,
in any bill if you attach a specific
of specific funding source to a provision in
a piece of legislation,
the governor can go through and and scratch
that out. So this is this is a...
This was a symptom of the 20 14

(01:30:38):
bill that we brought up time and time
again when we were talking about how know,
there's a whole bunch of stuff from 10
years ago, that was never implemented and why
wasn't that done, and it was because
if there's no funding source attached to it,
you the executive branch doesn't really have to
fund it.
You know, you can write all the laws
you want, you can put as much as
many words on the books as you can.

(01:30:58):
But if there's no
way to fund it or any funds there
to enforce it, it's not gonna get done,
especially if you have
you know,
something that's a little bit of a political
football,
the governor's gonna go to the the secretary
of of administration and finance, They're like, we'll
knock that down in the priorities list, things

(01:31:19):
like that. So so that's that's another thing
when you look through this bill, if you
if you look at all of the... Reporting
requirements and all these, you know,
all these lists and things that they need
to put together in data.
There's no funding
this no extra funding provided for them to
do that. And now it was, like, a
rule a 10 or rule

(01:31:39):
13 or something like that. Something like I
remember when they voted on this bill originally
in
in the house,
there was somebody who raised an argument and
said, you know, we Jones Yeah. Like, Yeah.
We have a rule here that you can't,
pass an un funded mandate. Like, it has
to be funded.
And then it with. Exactly. But that was

(01:32:00):
why they
suspended the rule. Yeah. Exactly. But that was
that was another symptom of of the way
that they they went about this. I mean,
you know, they called a special hearing
for,
you know,
ways and means and then handed the reins
over to
judiciary
went back
in time,

(01:32:20):
haul out that budget bill,
the supplemental and and stuck this language and
pretended. Had always been there, Right. So when
it got to the floor, they raised, you
know, the the Republicans raised to that objection,
and, of course, they were they were voted
down. So the mail got to where it
was. But you bring up a good point
numbers game. Where does the money come from

(01:32:41):
to do all this.
It doesn't. It's feel good nonsense.
Right. Right. There's no... Where there's no financial
backing to it. And once it gets passed
that everyone forgets about it. Except for the
agency. Like I said, I worked an agent
Zealand land. I... Yep. The agency is sitting
here, like, how do we do this? And
then they start begging for scraps
Of, like, can I hire a guy for

(01:33:02):
35000 dollars a year who can answer the
phone for us? No. You can.
It's like, that's really what it turns into.
But and you and you bet your ass
if there's some police officer out there that
knows the law
better than most, and you get picked up
for something that's not funded.
They're still gonna charge you with it. Sure.
Course. Right.

(01:33:23):
That's Man, this is a lot to take
in. It's Yeah. It's it's a...
Right around my birthday, maybe I should suspend
my birthday. Tomorrow is my birthday. 07:20 16
was the last time they ruined my birthday.
And tomorrow, I'm sure they're gonna vote for
this bill on my birthday. And you know,
it's... My poor mother
was born on.

(01:33:44):
11/22/1950,
which was the... In 19 63,
I think it was is when Jfk got
shot.
On her birthday, and she said, it ruined
my birthday for 10 years. You know, she
came home from school that day and as
a as a you know, 13 year old.
Am Gonna get a birthday party tonight? No.
Did you see what happened today? And so

(01:34:04):
for the next 10 years, she didn't get
a birthday.
You So that's how I'm feeling right now,
but that's okay. I I'm a big boy
I can take it.
The point I'm trying to make though is...
We got
all of this coming down. We got the...
It's gonna get voted on tomorrow apparently, and

(01:34:25):
you know, we still don't have the final
language, which was news to me. Thanks for
dropping that on me Mike.
And then
you know, it goes to the governor's desk
gets signed into law.
And I'm sure it's gonna be a press
conference surrounded by the... Yeah. Who cops that
support the bill and
and everything else and there'll be a big
handshake and pen hand out. Then where does

(01:34:46):
that leave us? It looks like to me,
based on what I see it goes into
effect in a hundred and 80 days. Is
Am Reading that right, Did you guys see
anything like that? So there's different effective dates
for different sections.
Most of the time, if there's no emergency
pre am. It goes into it... It goes
into effect at 90 days after signing. How
there's...
Yeah. But this is there's a whole bunch

(01:35:06):
of
effective dates.
Scattered throughout this thing.
So who's to say? I in theory, we
could try to organize if they don't have
an emergency. Pre Can we organize a,
a petition to
to put... Like, you... We have a short
window of time and I figure forget what
that number is the citizen where you can
try to recall it basically.

(01:35:28):
So until, I'll put you in charge organizing
not if you want. Yeah. Here I go.
I don't even know where to start. Who
I call to make that happen? Because there
there is... If you look at the... It's
been, again, it's been 20 years since I
worked in go.
Without the emergency pre, there's a way that
you can
prevent it from it going into effect.
You're But there... There's, like, a signature requirements

(01:35:52):
and all kinds of criticism horrible.
Yeah.
Let me ask the question that I know
you're probably not gonna like Jason, but... Please.
Poly questions.
Frankly,
this is a violation of their oath of
office,
especially in line of all the Supreme court

(01:36:13):
decisions in all the
circuit court decisions and,
circuit court of appeals. I mean, appeal... A
appellate court decisions that have come out in
the past 2 or 3 years,
what can you do if the legislature just
continually ignores their oath? And continues to infringe

(01:36:33):
on a right that is protected
and is
says right in the language of the text
that
you know,
you can't infringe on it, but they do
it anyway.
In my world that's m.
And,
in civil world that's
fraud in the induce

(01:36:53):
and yet
politicians get away with it
because know, they... So you know, I know
you're gonna tell me the ballot box is
the only place. How, what I tell you
the valve box is of place put together
candidates that... You, you know, are particularly in
this state, you know, moderate it, if you
will, will it friendly on gun rights and
run them. I think that's how you do
it. I mean You know, I think you...

(01:37:15):
You know, when you say Shall not be
in Inference, you know, you don't need to
look much farther than the were he e
case, which just came down from from the
the Supreme Court which said that Well, maybe
it can be infringe if you're or a
danger or a risk,
that's the rest restraining order case. So what
that hold is shall not be friends mean,
it's kinda up to the supreme court for

(01:37:35):
right Palace. We need guidance.
Well, you bring up an interesting point about
Ra,
kinda and that is that a in Ra,
Cat Brown Jackson said that Brewing methodology is
the law, the land. That is the methodology.
I think they tortured the Brewing methodology a
little bit in Ra. However, it was a

(01:37:56):
facial challenge. So therefore, you got approved that
there's no
situation
that that law could be
constitutional. Right? Wow. And and so that's a
almost insurmountable barrier to climb, but that was
all originally. Pad was grasping at straws at
that point. Because he couldn't he couldn't argue
it's
unconstitutional as applied when he willingly entered into

(01:38:17):
a,
restraining order that said he can't possess guns.
So, like, that's ridiculous. That wouldn't be makes
sense. So he said it's facial
unconstitutional lost,
and
it was a pretty hard barrier to overcome.
But
there was a couple of nuggets in that.
And a couple of stepping stones that proved
that text history and tradition is the methodology,

(01:38:39):
including what Git Brown Jackson said in her
in her concur opinion.
And then we have
the the
fact of the matter that
clarence Thomas is descent.
You know, was he was the only 1
that was saying like, look. We already did
the deep dive on this. Why are we
even messing around with it. The guy can

(01:38:59):
be charged for 20 years if you just
charge them with
assault with a deadly weapon
under Texas law,
but, you know, why are we torturing the
definition here to make it fit? It doesn't
make sense.
So,
I think there's some nuggets that came out
of that butt, and we'll see what happens
in the Brian range case,
because that's another 09:22

(01:39:20):
g.
8, you know, type of felon in possession,
but this is nonviolent felon.
So we still have some work to do
there. But at the end of the day,
I think in Infringement is pretty obvious unless
it's consistent with the... An analogous law at
the time of the founding in 17 91.
I mean, or the ratification.

(01:39:42):
But
you're always gonna get some sent there people
trying to torture it and pull it back
and say it's a living brief document where
you can do what you want.
I still say it comes back to federal
is 49,
constitutional limitations. Mh. There's limitations to constitutional power.
And when they overs step that, where does

(01:40:02):
that leave us? We only have 1 method
to deal with that and that's the ballot
box. That's ridiculous.
We have,
Us code title 18 section 02:42,
which says any official,
That leaves the door open any official who
under the color of law
pride an a a citizen of their
constitutional protected rights.

(01:40:23):
So why doesn't that leave the door open
to challenge these people in in a lawsuit?
Is that rhetoric? I great question.
I guess.
You're not getting get a judge do agree,
I think. At least in our circuit.
Sure. Yeah.
Unfortunately.
Well,

(01:40:44):
I hope
there is some sort of provision. And I
haven't read. You know, the entire
constitution and into the nuance of that.
But
you know, the constitution is very good document
written by very smart people that you know,
deals with a lot of contingencies.
You almost gotta go back to the federal
papers to see what the intent was there

(01:41:07):
of
limiting power, but in that federal is 49,
it says the legislature is the most important
of all the branches of government because they
are the gatekeeper of the people's rights. So
what happens when the gatekeeper becomes the oath
breaker.
And they violate that trust that that
fiduciary responsibility to

(01:41:28):
you know, in
make sure that my rights are stay intact,
and then they themselves become the the offender
of those rights and the breaker,
of of their oath of office. I I
mean,
I don't know if it's ever had a
successful challenge or not, never maybe it never
will, but
I think that stuff I think about. That's

(01:41:49):
what I think it's knee up at Night...
I think it's a symptom of the the
biggest curse the founding fathers left us with
is a full time legislature.
The most dangerous work make work job there
is
They have to justify their existence every single
year.
And they're in their they're in session every
72 hours in Massachusetts,
and they... They're judged by how much... Their

(01:42:11):
their productivity and on 4 is judged by
how much legislation they pass in a given
session. And I
I think we were always bound to get
unfortunately to where you're talking about just by
nature of the way they upper operate. Yeah.
If I had a time machine and I
could go back to the founders and tell
them what happens in 20 24, I would
say, Listen.

(01:42:32):
When bad laws created, it takes decades and
millions of dollars to fix it.
Let's just flip those 2 things. Let's make
it so that bad law takes, like, 10
years and millions of dollars to create,
and it can be...
Ex ex
fixed in the courts.
Because right now, it's the opposite.

(01:42:52):
You know, it it's quick for legislature to
pass bad law, it's way quicker than it
should be.
Legislation should take long periods of time and
debate and public input and opinion. It's and
there should be high barriers to passing law
in my opinion. Well, the the master house
representative used to be, like, 400
members.
Right. It used to be enormous, and then

(01:43:13):
they cut it down in what the late
sixties early seventies to where it is now.
And you know, I think it probably took
a little longer to get stuff done back
then.
Yeah.
I means,
things should not move quickly through legislature,
legislature in my opinion because it's it certainly
move slow through the courts. We all know

(01:43:35):
that.
Gonna take time and money
and
lawyers.
Send lawyers guns and money. It's the anthem
of the gun owner in Massachusetts. Right? Mh.
Jason, it'll probably keep you gain employed for
decades to come.
Should this should this pass.
For all the for all the wrong reasons.

(01:43:56):
I'd rather you get into a,
not the aspect of law, but do real
estate or something is like.
I want you and Mike to go out
of business for Oh my god. I always
say this is this is the most fun
job I've ever had, but I would love
to not to have to have it.
Yes. It's a fair criticism. The fact that
I... My entire practice is this stuff is...

(01:44:17):
I say that to people all the time.
It shouldn't be. It, like, the the fact
that these laws are so
obscure so dense, and so easy to break
that it provides me with a full time
job is a problem. Right?
So quick crystal ball moment. Let's just take
a step from this for a second.

(01:44:39):
What do you guys think it's gonna happen
in the Donald case.
Out of the lowell District court that the
department adjusted or the attorney general's office has
chosen to appeal
Yeah. I I think Jc is gonna take
it
to yeah. I thought they did. I saw...
Yeah. They already did. Right? Gary did. So
they... And they... They granted sir in they're

(01:45:01):
solicit brief.
You know, in light of this language,
sir where... And again, you point to this
out with the non resident.
Now it you... It's bigger than, you know,
the firearms owner protection act. It's actually allowing
carry in your vehicle,
Right, as a non resident or

(01:45:23):
stored in your vehicle as a non resident
or stored.
I wonder if the S jc pumps somehow,
now that this... If this bill passes that
way Right. You know, if this bill wasn't
here, I would say the S would say
number 1, it's not equal protection,
you know, that

(01:45:44):
regulating firearms is reserved to the states
that licensing is constitutional,
Heller says so,
you know, all the kind of Yeah. All
the boiler plate things that we think they're
gonna say. Now I'm wondering if they punt
and have it reconsider and light in the
new legislation. Try to find a way around
giving
anyone a vehicle to get des go.

(01:46:07):
Well, you bring up something very interesting there
and sorry, Mike. Just cutting off I just
wanna respond to,
Jason there.
You said regulating firearms is is
just regulated to the
delegated to the states, Where that language I
think is what you're talking about from Cruise
shank
the United States from 18 75 where they

(01:46:30):
said that Congress can't make any law because
of the second amendment. They were basically saying
the the right to keep and bear arms
is not contingent upon the bill of rights.
It pre exists.
And the only reason the second amendment exists,
is so that Congress will make no law
prohibit or infringing upon it. And that's what
kicked it to the states.

(01:46:51):
And then it was affirmed in 18 76
with press,
the Illinois, and then,
but fast forward to Mcdonald,
that kind of
ring that back a little bit as far
as I'm my understanding of it. Maybe I'm
wrong. But
and then you look at state
constitution, which in most states are very similar

(01:47:12):
to the
the second amendment and in Massachusetts,
it even says the right to keep and
bear arms for the common defense
shall not be infringe. So where where does
Congress get the right?
To pass any laws that infringe upon the
on on the bill of rights or the

(01:47:33):
second amendment specific. Again, I think it depends
on what the word in French means. Right?
And you have your opinion that they can't
pass any laws. And I understand that. I
think our case law has said
differently. Right? Were ford. Mh.
But, you know, I think we were talking
about states
you know, there's this whole, like, does Congress

(01:47:56):
occupy the field? Does the federal government occupy
the field of regulation, If not, then there
are...
The states that
still have the ability to regulate.
You know, I'm not saying and you are
right. I, I'm not saying that you can't
or you can pass... And as we saw
in Berlin, you can't pass something that violates

(01:48:18):
the second amendment,
but
at the same time, the states are still
gonna be allowed to have their own
laws that may not be the same as
contiguous states. Mh Right? So isn't that that's
the issue in Donald, Donald, I mean, new
Hampshire has no laws. I mean,
to sit to that extent. And vermont?

(01:48:38):
Right. And Brian, we have licensing. And again,
Heller has said that licensing is
constitutional.
You know, is well
relations opinion did. It wasn't in the... It
wasn't in the
why.
In the majority opinion. Right.
And does very now it's biggest constitutional? Right.

(01:48:59):
But I would say that even the wording
in
heller
doesn't necessarily say it's constitutional. It makes... It
makes it sound like they haven't done the
deep spade work of whether it is or
not. It suggests it might be, but it...
They didn't do that. And even
B does the same thing with kavanaugh.

(01:49:21):
And and I I would say that
Until that challenge comes before the court,
which I think it should, especially in light
of Murdoch v, Pennsylvania, which we've talked about
before, which says
that you can't license
permit or charge a fee or a tax
for the
enjoyment of a federally protected

(01:49:44):
right.
So I don't know why that has never
been challenged. It seems ridiculously obvious to me,
but I'm just a gun guy. You know,
I just sell guns for a living. I'm
pretty
lower Iq. I haven't
graduated from any ivy league law school's. So
I'm like, why the heck hasn't this
been challenged? You know, And You and I

(01:50:05):
talked about it before and you thought maybe
because it's a first amendment case, But It
doesn't say specific to the first amendment. It
says a constitutional protected right.
Yeah. I mean, it Heller does say long
standing
prohibition on access to the mental, you know,
access to firearms by the mentally alien and
felons, and it does not affect. License 16.

(01:50:26):
So,
I
is Heller predicting Brewing in some way by
using that long standing language,
you know, I don't know.
You know, well that we're they casting. I
don't know. There's also footnote 9 in Brewing.
Or, you know, it kind of explicitly says
that nothing in the analysis should be interpreted

(01:50:49):
to
suggest the un unconstitutional of shell who permit
schemes.
Alright. That's true too. Cancel.
I think we need to
get that challenge to the to the
Supreme Court, but I don't think it's... I
think it'll take a while.
I just would say, like, like,
Clarence Thomas says,

(01:51:09):
You can't treat the second amendment differently than
all the other en. Right. It's not a
second class. Right. Yeah. Right. And so if
you can't issue a license to go to
church.
Or to vote, we already tried that with
the poll tax. Right? And that was ruled
on
unconstitutional.
If you can't charge a license to for
fourth amendment or fifth amendment protections, then how
can you do it for the second amendment?

(01:51:32):
Yeah. I mean, that's the prohibited person
analysis. Right? That
instead of a licensing
requirement. It's something that goal has said for
20 years instead of a licensing requirement, you
have a prohibited person statute just like you
do run a loan. Right? Right. Yeah. Yeah.
I have a rule for the 5 percent,
not for the 95 percent. You know, You

(01:51:53):
know, Right now
exactly. No. And I was gonna say it's
already it's already provided for in in the
constitution where it says you you can't be,
you deprived of life liberty or property without
due process of law. That's what that's supposed
to be. I mean, that's a that's a
situational standard. That
applies to all guns rights.
So

(01:52:14):
we got Donald to
look forward to in the Supreme Judicial court,
it sounds like.
We also have a very similar law that,
well, I guess it isn't really
totally similar, but
some of the,
the permitting schemes are starting to be,

(01:52:36):
not let's not call it permitting schemes. The
suit ability type of language,
that has long been hell upheld here in
Massachusetts.
We saw 2 different cases. 1 out of
ham in, I believe it was
Going out of fall river. Julio.
Yeah. Yeah. Holy oak. Thank you.
Where 2 people were denied their licensed to

(01:52:57):
carry by a...
Police chief on you know, he just said
and un suitable.
And both 1... I think the fall River
case
was
a little bit shorter
analysis than the ham in 1, but... Or
I'm... I might have those backwards. I can't
remember. But Mh. The long and short of
it was they said, look in post brewing

(01:53:18):
world. You can't just say, the guy is
ins suitable based on x you happen give
a...
Evidence
that has been ad
in a court. It can't You don't like
the guy. Know, and even even right after
Brew,
when the legislature scrambled
to stick that, you know, Brew security language

(01:53:40):
into, you the judiciary, the judicial bond bill.
It said that it it clarified
suit ability to be an
standards. So that it had to be something
that you could... That the the... I... Lit...
The licensing authority could
articulate.
Right. Explain. Yeah. It's fun asking the officers

(01:54:01):
on the stand. Can you articulate specifically want.
They're like,
because
I said
because he's bad guy. Yeah. Look at. I
don't like nike his neighbor.
So, you know, it's funny on the suit
piece because,
you know, as you see it now...

(01:54:23):
There is a way out,
at least a way that they can get
it narrow, net more narrow,
but that would require
limiting chief discretion. Meaning, Right for example, you
know, following Re,
the applicant has been

(01:54:43):
subject to a restraining order
issued after a hearing.
Over the past 5 years. Right? If they
did that, that would limit the discretion of
the chief to say, well, this was 6
years ago, I can't use it the legislature
won't do it.
Yeah. It's e
Yeah. E has the ability to regulate, and
they could do it. They can narrow the

(01:55:04):
chiefs discretion.
And I suspect that they did it right.
It may pass constitutional must. But as where
we're at right now, we're gonna need a
court to tell me you need can do
it. Yeah. But it and it's and it's
for a Crave
reason. It's it's it's it's a political consideration.
They need the chiefs. They they can't do
that.
Right.

(01:55:25):
Yep.
Alright. Last issue, and I'm gonna let you
guys go. Today, this would have dominated my
show if it weren't for everything else we've
already talked about. Mh.
A new
permission slip drop today from
the state saying which guns we can and
can't purchase from a licensed

(01:55:47):
Fl. The approved weapons roster came out.
And ironically,
it's gonna set up a showdown
between the state, if this log gets passed
that we've been talking about all day because
Guess what?
Out of all the guns that were,
added to the lists, Sa
Usa,
Has a couple of tactical models, which have

(01:56:10):
threaded barrels,
which are now gonna be an salty type
feature for the new salt style firearm, Yeah.
Criteria that's gonna ban threaded muzzle on pistols.
And there's a ton of other guns already
on the list,
h k makes some, a fan makes some
that have threaded barrels. There's... You. Not to

(01:56:30):
mention all the little 20 twos, like the
sig mosquito and the sig 322,
etcetera, etcetera.
So where does that leave, you know, this,
number 1,
Are they gonna just have to go back
and rehash the whole
approve weapons roster or are they gonna say,
even though it's on there, you can't continue
to buy it. Maybe you will. Yeah. That's

(01:56:51):
what they'll do.
Well, they're dismantling the g cab too. So
I. To advisory board, They're creating this new
board with political appoint who are gonna be
put in there.
Presumably from that, they're going to revisit all
of these lists,
and I... You know, I gotta be honest
and Mike Or toby. I haven't seen,

(01:57:12):
like, a revision of the
approve weapons ross or statute, at least when...
It wasn't what I was looking for, and
I haven't seen it in the 100 pages,
so You're right. Now there seems to be
a conflict between the approved weapons roster and
the assault weapon
band stuff. They could do what they did
with the block, where it's on the approved
weapons roster, but it doesn't meet the Ag

(01:57:33):
g's regulations. They could have it on the
approved weapons Roster, and then put it on
the assault weapon,
band list. So it's on the roster, so
people think you can buy it, but then
it's on the band list so you can.
Right. Yep.
And I... I mean, supremacy clause
I mean, doesn't statute win out over regulation
anyways.
That's what I was gonna say. What happened

(01:57:55):
at, like, whole exposed factors weird, like, you.
Yeah. What is it called?
The...
No. You have legislative intent where you... Where
the awards of the
legislation has to have meeting, and you can't
regulate away the words of statute. Right?
Right.
Yeah, it's madden.
Guys, Thanks so much for joining us, Mike.

(01:58:17):
Why don't you tell everyone where they can
go find out more at goal.
Owners actually. Yeah. So, gold dot org. It's
right on the front page.
We're on Instagram,
Facebook
everywhere. You guys got a podcast.
Yep. We got a podcast. Actually, Garrett sitting
right over here. Our our president is sitting
over here. We've been sitting here watching the
whole time, where he's he's helping us go

(01:58:38):
through the bill. But
yeah. I mean, we're we're taking this language
right now and we're going through it,
you know,
notwithstanding any new versions that might come out,
we'll we'll go into our comparison and fix
it, but for now we're going through this.
As soon as we get our
down and analysis done It'll be up there.
We're hoping within the next 24 hours or
so. And general working on that. But yeah,

(01:58:59):
gold dot org. Everything will be up there.
The that caucus
memo is up there.
And yeah. And and thanks to Jason for
sending that along to us. Yeah. Help. I
thank you leading it. So we don't have
to no. I'm just kidding identically at you
and
it's gonna be painful and to, but, there
we Here we go. And

(01:59:20):
and, Jason, I'm sure you're gonna be got
plenty of work for the next foreseeable future.
This thing to ask is even if it
doesn't, and
you know,
so is life in Massachusetts.
But where can people find you? Should they
need your services.
You've bet
log guide, LAWGUIDA

(01:59:41):
dot com. My website. My phone number is
on there. It's an emergency line 24 hours
a day. Here in trouble.
You, it's an emergency, the number's on there.
And I'm gonna plug goal real quick. Gun
is actually does a lot of work on
this You're stuff there. The ones putting this
information out there. If you're not a member
join. Yeah.
Yeah.

(02:00:01):
I appreciate that. And I'll also say for
Jason. If you don't remember all of that
stuff. Go to gold dot org, and you
go over to the right, there is a
section where we have
attorney referrals and he is on there. So
if you need his contact information, it's on
our website too.
Thanks. Well, it's good to know both you
are in our corner, and
we gotta fight this nonsense, and hopefully,

(02:00:22):
we will see
we'll come through the other side with with
a victory in hand.
Don't know how long it's gonna take, but
we gotta do it because otherwise,
this falls. It spreads like a nasty disease
and a virus for the rest of this
country. So...
Yeah. Thanks so much, guys. I appreciate you
both.
And we'll have you on again, and we'll

(02:00:44):
hopefully do this with some good news to
report something.
That'd be nice. Yeah. Wouldn't it. Alright. Alright.
God bless guys. Take care. Thanks, guys. Yep.
There you have it, guys.
Rapid fire.
We don't just bring you good news. We
bring you all the news and
today is a bad news day. So,

(02:01:07):
Seth, don't do anything sudden. Okay? Don't do
anything today. Other than buy what you want.
That's what I say. To call the action,
buy what you want, and
let's get this done in out of our
way forever,
call your legislators, your senators,
you're,
right now. Do it now.

(02:01:29):
They're there. They're they're doing their things.
And they're gonna vote on it tomorrow. So
you gotta make sure you vote. Alright. Rob
bless and I'll see y'all on the other
side. Take here.