Find the Work You're Wired to Do with Ken Coleman

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:13):
Cas up little food for you.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
So, oh, it's pretty bad. It's pretty beautiful, beautiful for
a little more. Family said, you're kicking with full with
Amy Brown.

Speaker 3 (00:32):
Ken Coleman is our guest today. You're Ramsey personality.

Speaker 4 (00:37):
Yes, what's that like?

Speaker 1 (00:38):
You know, it's a lot of fun. Actually, you know
that title is always weird, but it's a lot of fun.
You know. One of my fellow personalities, Rachel Cruise, she's
like my little sister, Dave's daughter. Dave Ramsey's this big,
iconic unicorn personality himself, and so when he asked you
to come on board, it's kind of like, all right,
I got an offer to have a seat on a
rocket ship and I did it. We get to help

(00:59):
a lot of people. You know, He's given me a
massive platform that I couldn't have built myself, and so
for that, I'm super grateful and get the co host
with him. You know, three years ago, I don't know
if a lot of people know, he turned the Dave
Ramsey Show into the Ramsey Show and he said, all right,
I'm going to have a co host every day. You know,
you're one of the biggest radio shows in the world,

(01:20):
and it's a massive playground and we get to help
people every day and they invite us in and tell
us their most intimate details and say will you help me?
And for that, you know, that's a really cool gig.
It's heavy, you know, because you realize the weight of
your words and people are listening, and from that standpoint,
it's one of the great joys of my professional life
to get to coach people. That's a cool gig.

Speaker 3 (01:42):
Well, you're you're on the Ramsey Show, but then you
also have the Ken Coleman Show. You're a best selling
author from Paycheck to Purpose and the Proximity Principle, and
then your newest book, which is Get Clear Assessment, Find
the Work You're wired to do, and the four things
we're going to touch on today is kind of in
alignment with your newest book. But I definitely want to

(02:03):
dig into self discovery and the beliefs that we have
about ourselves and even down to in our self discovery,
realizing who we're hanging out with. I know you've got
thoughts around who we're surrounding ourselves with and it may
be limiting us.

Speaker 4 (02:19):
The second thing, finding the work that we're wired to do.

Speaker 3 (02:22):
The third thing being unhappy at work and how that
can affect our mental health. And I've definitely gone through seasons,
especially being at my current job on the Bobby Bone
Show for eighteen years. Wow, you have like a roller
coaster and there are times where some of it I thought, too, is.

Speaker 4 (02:41):
A mind shift I needed to make.

Speaker 3 (02:42):
I was unhappy at work, but I was causing the
unhappiness and it was definitely affecting my mental health. And
the fourth thing, I have an email from a listener
that's about finances. She's stay at home mom and she
wants to get more involved, but she has fear around
that and a lot of emotions, and I feel like
I can relate to that a lot. So I'm just
going to read you or email and we'll go over that.
But in the self discovery thing, I did see a

(03:04):
post on your Instagram about our beliefs for ourselfs and
you put the words you speak shape your beliefs about
yourself and what others believe about you.

Speaker 4 (03:15):
The lack of.

Speaker 3 (03:15):
Confidence in the words we use affects every area of
our lives. For example, we apologize when there's nothing to
apologize for, and you put up examples that I could
resonate with so much, and I know so many of
my listeners are probably the same way. But if you
speak up in a meeting and you say, oh, I'm sorry,
I just wanted to say, or if you're asking for.

Speaker 4 (03:34):
A raise, like, oh, I'm sorry if that's.

Speaker 3 (03:36):
Going to be too much, And then even an example
of being out to eat and the waiter's job is
to fill up your drink and we somehow feel the
need to say, oh, I'm sorry, can you fill the drink?
But that's part of the practice, Like when we do
it in those small things, that's why it's showing up
in the bigger things, like when we're asking for a raise.

Speaker 4 (03:54):
So let's start there, and.

Speaker 3 (03:56):
What are some things we can do to stop apologizing
because I think this is a big want, especially for women.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
Yes, well, let's just get to the root of it.
It's a lack of confidence, Like I love that you
brought up the waiter thin because I even do that.
You know, it's like I'm bugging the person who's actually
paid to serve me. That's not an arrogant statement. But
somehow we can do that and what's happening in that
moment or all those scenarios you just gave me is
a lack of confidence. It's just a moment in time,

(04:22):
and sometimes it's a pattern of self doubt which makes
me not confident. And I've had the privilege to coach
almost ten thousand people on air. When you got to
do it in eight minutes, you know, a radio segment,
you know you got to get to it quick. And
what I've learned is confidence is such a massive, massive
factor it being the person you want to be to

(04:43):
live the life you want to live. It's so we
get to a point where, for some reason, we don't
believe that we should speak up in that meeting. We
feel like we're an irritant if we're asking the waiter
for something. And so what we've got to do in
that moment when we see ourselves apologizing when we shouldn't
be apologizing, We've got got to start digging what's going on.
Where's this limiting belief come from? Because it's really a

(05:04):
limiting belief. If we're going to borrow from psychology studies,
I have this limiting belief that I can't get over.
And every time I get in a scenario where I
feel like I need to step up and be the
real me. By the way, in a marriage, in a meeting,
as a parent, I find myself sometimes apologizing to my kids.
But wait a second. This is my house and these

(05:25):
are my rules, and I'm providing them a life. And
so I've had to get for my own self down
deep into where's that lack of confidence coming from. So
when I can get to the source of the lack
of confidence somebody said something to me, somebody did something
to me, or I've had a failure that I've never
been able to fully process, then we can go all right.
So there's a narrative here, a false narrative that says

(05:46):
I'm not enough. You can worry it however you want to,
but that's what's.

Speaker 4 (05:49):
Going on, believing I am worthy.

Speaker 1 (05:52):
So now we flip it. I am enough, right, I
have a good thought. I actually belong in this job.
I'm in this need for a reason. In fact, other
people ask me to show up in this meeting. I
have a seat at the table, so I'm gonna speak up.
I'm a father of a fifteen year old girl, and
she's experiencing this now in a school environment, you know
where boys are starting to have comments and things of

(06:13):
that nature, and she's got an opinion, and multiple girls
get together and you know, and it's like, babe, you
gotta be okay saying I don't want to do this.
If you don't want to do this social thing, it's
the same idea. Where's the lack of confidence coming from.
Let's get to that narrative and say, is that the truth?
Are you a nitwit? Are you an idiot? Do you
really think that you're gonna say something to this meeting

(06:35):
that everybody's gonna laugh at you and you're gonna lose
your job. It's that real. So we deal with that
and we go, that's not true. So now we're gonna
change the narrative too. I have something to say. I
belong here, and now we just say it and we
throw it out there, and we realize that everybody else
in the room has got their own insecurities. Here's what's
important about that. Amy. When we exercise the muscle of

(06:56):
stepping into that insecurity, then all of a sudd and
we go, oh, that wasn't as bad as we thought
it was going to be. People actually shook their head
in approval of something I said in the meeting, And
now of a sudden, we develop more.

Speaker 3 (07:08):
Confidence, and then you're more likely to speak up the
next time, and then the next time.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
The next time that's not as scary. It's like the
first time you jump off the diving board. It's terrifying,
right then we go, oh, I popped up, I swayed
to the side. I'm still a little bit scared the
next time. But that's what's going on. There is a
false narrative, and we've got to realize that the person
we listen to most is us. And so if that
thought in your head is not rooted in truth, you're
lying to yourself. And it's okay to go, oh, this

(07:34):
is not true.

Speaker 3 (07:35):
Well, you know, you mentioned your daughter and she's a teenager,
and I think that a lot of times as adults,
like I'm in my forties now, I feel like I
should have some of this figured out.

Speaker 4 (07:43):
And you know, so some of it is.

Speaker 3 (07:45):
The teenage example is a great one where they're all
thinking of doing one thing or speaking one way, so
you feel like, well, you need to do that. And
now as we grow and mature, it's like, okay, I
don't have to think that way anymore. I can speak
up for myself. It's so great if you can learn
it early on, for sure, But that also makes you
think of your peers and who you surround yourself with,
and that's how you show up in the world. And

(08:08):
it's easy for me to look at my daughter and
my son and see that it's like a mirror. They
all are acting very similar and it's so clear to
me you are who you hang out with. But we
don't like to evaluate ourselves that way as an adult,
or at least I'll speak for.

Speaker 4 (08:22):
Myself, I don't. So how does that limit us?

Speaker 3 (08:25):
If we're hanging out with certain types of people, that
may limit what we're able to do.

Speaker 1 (08:29):
Or come, I'm glad you're bringing this up, because if
you're listening to this, you're kind of going, Okay, it
makes sense, But do they really know. No, Amy's spot on,
and the data backs you up. So Harvard has done
the longest study ever on the power of relationships in
our lives. They've been studying people from birth to death
and the study is still going on. It's over eighty
years old. And so from my money, this is the

(08:50):
most conclusive stuff we can look at when we talk
about the value of people around us. And here's what
they've said ninety five percent of your success or failure
in life is due to the people you spend the
most time with. So you can look at where you're winning,
and you need to look at where you're losing in life.
And I promise you if you look deep enough, the

(09:11):
reasons you're winning the people you're around, the reasons you're
losing the people you're around. And listen. That goes for relationships,
to friendships or I'm talking about relationships as you're deciding
who you want to be with the rest of your life.
If you've been dating somebody for a while and you
just feel like you're not getting any better, I got
news for you, you won't get any better. And they're a

(09:33):
big reason. It's like it's okay to go, hey, I
can care for this person, but they're not best for me.
Then you can go to the professional side of things.
If you want to move up in the world. And
I love your journey. I've studied your journey and watched
how you've grown. I mean, listen, I don't care if
it's in broadcasting or entertainment or in finance, HR insurance.
I don't care what world you choose. In the world

(09:54):
of work. Your ability to get promoted is absolutely based
on the people you're hanging around with in office and
outside the office. Don't hang around the gossipers and the
people that are just mailing it in the quiet quitters.
That's the big hot phrase over the last two three years.
Don't hang around with them, because if you do, I'm
telling you, the data says they're gonna pull you down.
So start hanging out with people that are better than you.

(10:17):
You know, when I first started in broadcasting, I started
really late at thirty one, So I was hanging around
the play by play guy for the Atlanta Hawks. Guy
was fifteen years older than me. I could keep going
down the list of people in the Atlanta area that
we're in broadcasting, that we're killing it. And I was
starting out thirty one year old. Dad, that's way late.
You know how old that is. That's really old and broadcasting.
But I would tell you that one of the big

(10:39):
reasons that I've been able to get where I am
is because of that strategy. And I didn't even know
the Harvard study, but I was just always trying to
be around people that I didn't belong in the room with.
In fact, I've shared this on social before. If you're
listening and watching right now and you start putting yourself
in places where you feel like you don't belong, you're
in the right place. That's a good sign. Because successful

(11:01):
people they like to give advice, they like to make connections,
they like being asked, how'd you get where you are?
What advice would you give me? So you just cannot
put enough value. And I tell my kids this all
the time. Be around people that are good people, be
around older people that are successful, and some of the
most amazing opportunities that will look like luck to everybody

(11:24):
else watching. You'll be able to track it back one
day too. I was intentional enough to go I should
probably hang around this person and good things happen.

Speaker 3 (11:33):
Donald Miller posted something on Instagram that resonated with me,
and it's it's in line with what you're saying. And
I'm going to paraphrase it, but he was talking about
if he's at a dinner table, he wants to be
the least interesting person out question, because then that is
so much opportunity to experience, Oh, these amazing lives from
other people. But sometimes our ego gets in the way,

(11:54):
and it's like oh, well, I need to present this, this,
and this, like I deserve to be at this table,
which again is that fine line of like, I'm confident
I deserve to be here I'm with these people, but
also I need to soak up these amazing people and
put myself at tables where I am.

Speaker 1 (12:10):
I love that have the least offer. I got to
tell you something on that I have found in my
life that I can become one of the most interesting
people at a table where I'm not even close to
the most interesting person. Here's how, I'm asking lots of questions.
So I'm sitting down with very successful people and in
that moment, I'm asking them questions about them. And by
the way, this is a great lesson for us in life.

(12:31):
The way to build connection and relationship, whether it's with
successful people or just in your peer groups, is to
always be the person who's most interested in everybody else.
And here's what happens. If I were to meet you
outside of this setting and I'm like, oh, I know
you as radio Amy, surecher, Sure you know I hear
you every once a while in the car, blah blah blah,
And I just meet you at some function here in Nashville,
which could have happened. I'm going to ask everything about

(12:53):
tell me about your kids, you know, tell me what's
going on, what's your favorite part of the gig. Are
you going to write a book? Are you doing this whatever?
I'm just asking about you in the natural, healthy, inner
kind of personal conversation. Here. At some point you will
start to ask me about me. Now, we're not doing
this to be disingenuous. It's not fake to get you
to ask about me. But in being interested about you,

(13:15):
I become somewhat interesting because you go, well, there's a
person who actually is trying to learn something from me.

Speaker 4 (13:20):
Or you're curious he's curious about me.

Speaker 1 (13:22):
I'm not just a radio amy, I'm not just someone
he's meeting out a reception. And so I think with
successful people, and Donald's right, known Don for a long time.
He's absolutely right. If you can sit in places like
that and ask really good questions, when you leave that table,
you won't believe sometimes how memorable you are, just because
you put yourself in a posture of learning. People remember you.

(13:44):
It's like you asked me a really good question.

Speaker 4 (13:47):
Oh that's good. I like that word. Posture of learning.

Speaker 3 (13:49):
Yeah, versus a posture of Okay, well this is these
are my accomplishments too.

Speaker 1 (13:54):
If I were a musician in Nashville, give you an example.
If I were a starving musician or somebody trying to
make it here and I got in a green room
with you or Bobby or I'm with all these other
artists and I've got a chance to meet somebody that
I really look up to, who's a big time musician.
I'm not gonna say, hey, I'm a big fan. I
love your work, because that's what we default to. Act
like a fan, you get treated like a fan. But

(14:15):
if I'm gonna get to meet that person, I'm gonna
shake their hand, and they're expecting me to go love
your work, and they've heard that a million times. I'd
look at them and go, hey, if you could name
just one lyrical line of all the songs you've ever
written that meant the most of you, what would it be?
Something like that. Now that that may throw them off,
but I mean take that moment to ask a really
interesting question. Now, they may never remember you, you may

(14:38):
be surprised because you're gonna make a great impression on
them by going to a depth of I just said,
somebody in the green room and they decided to ask
me a question, and I could tell they really wanted
to know the answer to that because they were there
as a sponge. That's what I mean is that posture
of learning become very attractive and memorable that way, and
you take something away, you actually learn something.

Speaker 3 (14:57):
Yeah, just for anybody that's looking for or either a
career shift later in life. And like you said, thirty one,
which is still young by the way, but yeah, in
a certain field, you may have had some people that
were years ahead of you at your age. So when
someone's looking to make a shift, I guess that's that
self discovery. The self reflection is probably so key no

(15:18):
matter what age you are, Like I'm thinking, you've got
forty five fifty year olds, so sometimes completely transition. And
so maybe the encouragement before that is to really get
to know yourself and evaluate who you're.

Speaker 4 (15:31):
Hanging out with.

Speaker 3 (15:32):
In getting to know yourself, too, it makes you think
of the times you know I mentioned earlier, of I'm
the problem, Like I show up to work and I
know that it's my negative thinking, and so in that
assessment you can be like, oh, might the person knowing
should be hanging out with right right by.

Speaker 1 (15:47):
The common denominator with all this tension in the office. Yeah,
you know, the encourage what I would give is and
this is what we did this little book for. We
created an assessment, so I wouldn't call it little. It's well,
I mean, it's a forty five minute read. No, it's
just it's it's designed to be able to Okay, I
get what you're saying.

Speaker 4 (16:04):
Yeah, I know. I try to tell my kids that
all the time.

Speaker 3 (16:06):
It's not this I love it or you know, oh,
just a little podcast or whatever.

Speaker 4 (16:10):
But when you diminish, yeah, no.

Speaker 1 (16:12):
Not diminishing as much as saying it's about forty.

Speaker 4 (16:14):
Five don't read literally.

Speaker 1 (16:15):
It's literally. And I wanted you know, listen, I've written
the bigger books. This book was written to take your
results and say, show me now where I can do
this thing, this work that I'm wired to do. But
it's the answer your question of if I'm going or
if I'm pivoting in any field. You you've got to
start with self awareness because it's scary enough to make
a change. Right. The reason change is so scary is

(16:36):
because it represents the unknown. It's terrifying. So self awareness
is the key. So here's what you do. If you're
going to pivot professionally, you got to first start with
this idea, this new lane that I'm thinking about. Let's
start with do I have the chops? In other words,
do I have the talent? You do have the raw
talent that with education, I mean I'm learning something and
experience I get a chance to do it that I

(16:57):
can actually pull this off. So I'm at thirty and
I had to ask myself and people that were in
the industry, do you think I have the communication chops? Like?
Can I hold a mic? Can I communicate? Can I
drop a point? Can I be entertaining? Can I equip?
Can I encourage? All the things? Do I have what
it takes? We start with talent, because now that we
have that, we go, okay, there's a shot like this

(17:19):
is not the kid who goes on American Ido who
actually can't sing. They love the idea of singing, but
they can't sing. So the second thing is do I
love the work? And so in my world it was
the performance element. I mean, when you're in radio and television,
at the end of the day, I think you have
to ask yourself, do I love the pressure of performing?

(17:39):
Cause it's a vice grip if you don't like, if
you kind of like it, it'll eat you alive. But
like if you love it to where your heart's beating
out of your chest, But at the same time, you
can't wait to do it, and then when it's over,
you've got this this rush of I did it. I
face the pressure. I was about ready to throw up
on the mic, but now that I didn't throw up,
I want to do it again. Do we really really

(18:00):
love everything? The good, the bad, and the ugly, Because
if you don't have that love of it, you won't
do the hard work. You won't show up and do
high school football play by play on the internet, which
I did when no one's listening except the kid next
to me and my wife because she's a good woman,
you know, she's like, I listened to you. You know
it was a high school football play play on the
internet and like nineteen whatever it was, So you gotta
love that. And then that third piece is do I

(18:22):
care about the results? So when I started out amy,
I was thinking about sports, because I do love sports
and love talking sports. But I tasted a little bit
of it, and I realized I didn't want to entertain people.
I wanted to equip and encourage people. So whatever broadcasting
I was going after, I wanted to have that coach
type feel because I just love coaching people at my core,

(18:44):
whether I'm on the air or not, I want to
help people go from where they are to where they
want to be. And so that's when I was like, Okay,
what's that path look like? And I discovered Dave Ramsey
and all the other people that are in this space.
So that quick exercise, Am I good at it? Do? I?
I love the actual work and everything that goes into it,
not just showing up on the mic, But are you

(19:05):
going to do the research so you can interview somebody
you know? Are you going to know what you're talking about?
And then the third thing is does it create an
end result that I actually care about? So that when
the work is done, do I go is this meaningful
to me? We all are souls that long to make
a difference in the lives of others, So those three
things are what we reveal in the assessment. So that's

(19:25):
how we get to that self awareness that you're talking about,
to go, oh, okay, this path, this path, and this
path all three I'm wired for it, so now I
just got to stay with it.

Speaker 3 (19:48):
I saw you post a video about Barbara Corkoran and
imposter syndrome, and that sort of ties into you deciding
what you wanted to do.

Speaker 4 (19:57):
But then do you have the talent? Can you show up?

Speaker 3 (19:59):
And some times were like, oh, I don't think I'm
good enough to do this, And imposter syndrome is an
interesting one for sure, but I love the way you
broke it down. So I encourage people to go to
your YouTube.

Speaker 4 (20:10):
It's easy to.

Speaker 3 (20:10):
Find because Barbara's like on the cover Funders shot that.
I was going to ask you what made the shift
at thirty one into what you were doing, but then
also what made the shift from broadcasting sports to doing
what you're doing now, And you said it was the
desire to encourage. Yeah, I know, I'm picturing you doing
like a tackle or a play by play, and somehow
you try to work in something motivational.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
No, thank god, I didn't do that, but I mean
it was one of those things where I did enough
of it amy to where I saw the end result
is entertainment. By the way, there's nothing wrong with that
like what you and Bobby do is a lot of entertainment.

Speaker 4 (20:43):
But you also we'll ask us for advice too.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
By the way you encourage people, we're not qualified. I disagree.
I disagree. In fact, one of the things, one of
the things I've always loved about your show is the
encouraging piece of it, and I think that that's a
form of entertainment. What I realized was there's no wrong
or right answer. It was just my answer. In other words,
I can talk sports for probably a week, but I

(21:06):
would be missing the result piece, that missional result, which
is I want to communicate, to make people think and
feel and do, But to talk about entertainment is just
as worthy. It's just for me and I come from
a church background. I'm a pastor's kid. I saw my
mom and dad passed this little idy bitty church their

(21:26):
whole life and they just gave and they served, and
I think that's shaped me. And by the way, that's
what I do. I coach people if you look back
to your story, not just your design, but your story
the environment you grew up in that shapes all of
us so much. The way that your parents saw the
world in a variety of areas and then your experience.

(21:48):
So you've got your environment, you grow up in that,
and let's see you leave at eighteen. Now you go
out and you do your thing, whatever your journey is.
And up to this very moment where you feel confused
or lost or stuck, your experience up to this point
where you've won in life and where you've lost, that's
also shaped your heart. And what I teach is is
finding that work that you're wired to do is just
as much about your heart as it is your design,

(22:11):
you know, and so you got to care about the
result what you do. And to the extent that your
job creates a result that you no longer care about.
Watch out, burnout, depression, because what happens is when your
work doesn't matter to you, you start to think do
I matter? That's a scary place to be in. So
it's really important that you always have a good idea.

(22:32):
Is my work creating a result that when I'm by
myself alone or laying my head down on the pillow
at the end of a day, did that work create
a result that I care about? Does it move my heart?

Speaker 3 (22:44):
What if someone's seeing that they need to make some
sort of change in that like they realize that work
is just paying the bills. But you can't pivot without
paying the bills. So in the interim, are there things
you can do to show up in a different way.

Speaker 1 (22:59):
Yes, that's a really good question. So I'm here, I'm
doing work that I don't love, but I can't just
go we you know, and jump. So you do what
you have to do so you can do what you
want to do. It's a great phrase from this wonderful
movie with Forrest Whitterker called The Great Debaters, and he
says that to his son at some point, who all
he wants to do is focus on the debate team.
He's letting his studies slide, and he says, son, do

(23:20):
what you have to do so that later you can
do what you want to do. In this scenario that
you've asked me, I've got to pay the bills. So
I'm going to change my mindset to I'm grateful that
I've got this day job that is providing for me
and my family. So we go to total focus of okay,
instead of Monday morning waking up and going, oh, I
got a deal with this jerk boss, this team, it sucks,

(23:43):
it's toxic. Whatever it's I'm grateful that is taking care
of me in the now. It is the platform or
the doc if you will, that is going to allow
me to step on a new boat. Now, that's going
to take time, but I'm grateful for the now. And
that's what I was doing. I was running my own
business and was miser I didn't like my boss. That
was me, you know, I was in a transition, and

(24:04):
so I realized, I begin to change my mindset to gratitude.
And you know, it's impossible to have a grateful thought
and a negative thought at the same time. Is absolutely
I tried it once, he did. I actually tried to
be thankful in a journaling moment. It hysterical. It was
a stupid little exercise. It was powerful for me. And
so that's the key. I'm grateful for the now, and

(24:27):
I'm gonna stay focused on the now so that i
can pay the bills and start to gradually take steps
to the next. So I'm gonna have to learn, I'm
gonna have to do, I'm gonna have to connect, and
that's gonna take some time, but you can get there.
You absolutely can get there. But the mindset is everything,
and that's how you keep from getting so negative and
toxic that you get intimidated by the next, because the

(24:52):
next is intimidating in and of itself because of what
you've got to do to get there. But then when
you're trying to hold down this stay job and I
got three kids, and I had three kids, you know,
the whole nine yards they were you know, so it
was it was a difficult season. But what got me
through it was a clear focus on this this long
term vision and then gratitude in the now. So as
I've said on social before, don't obsess about the next

(25:15):
and miss what you need to do and be in
the now, or else you'll sacrifice the next. And that's
the weird tension between patients and persistence. I got to
get up, show up, keep going after it, and then
wait on that desired result. That's really hard. But successful
men and women of all lanes of life, they figured

(25:35):
out how to manage that tension.

Speaker 3 (25:37):
Gratitude, patients, determination, those are the takeaways there. And you know,
in the finding the work you're wired to do, you
go over finding our top talents, like what we do best,
and then there's questions.

Speaker 4 (25:50):
That were under there.

Speaker 3 (25:51):
And if people get the book, don't they have access
to like a link.

Speaker 1 (25:54):
That the assessment itself does all the questions for them
and all they've got to do is answer honestly and instinctively,
and it spits out a fun little.

Speaker 3 (26:01):
Report like someone would have to answer quickly like how
do you wow others?

Speaker 2 (26:05):
So?

Speaker 4 (26:06):
How do you wow others?

Speaker 1 (26:07):
Me? Personally discernment like when I like listen to people
and I'm coaching them on the air or at a
live event, I'll do a keynote and then I let
the audience just pop up right then and there, no filter,
no call screen, or just boom, ask a question. And
according to my team, I think that's where I wow
them the most, the ability to in the moment, get deep,

(26:27):
go below the question quickly hear what the person's asking
and walk them through a scenario where they arrive at
the light bulb moment, not me telling them that got
kind of digging in.

Speaker 3 (26:37):
Question asking well, and that's under the top talents category
like what do you do best? And another one under there,
And I wanted to know what this means is talent traps?
To avoid what is a talent trap?

Speaker 1 (26:47):
So let's look at a coin, you know, so if
the talent is on the top side of the coin.
If I flip that over, there's always a weakness or
a kind of an ugly side to a talent where
we rely on the talent too much. So for a talent,
that trap for me, based on the scenario I just
gave you, is over coaching friends or my kids, because
I'm doing it all day long, and so I don't

(27:09):
want to embarrass my kids, but they can handle it.
They don't listen to anything I do anyway anymore. So
I remember early on when the kids were in middle school,
and I'm coming home and I'm coaching adults all day long,
and people are like, oh, you're so good at that,
and you helped me. Oh you blew my mind, you
read my mind. And I come home and be like,
start doing that to my kid And I was coaching
them and I was going too deep, treating them like

(27:29):
like almost a client, and they just want me to
be dad. In other words, they don't want me to
coach them. They just wanted me to sit with them
and go, man, buddy, I'm sorry, how does that feel?
And so you gotta be careful. Same thing with a friend.
Sometimes a friend just needs to talk. They don't need
me to pick apart their day or how successful they are.
So that's one example of a trap where you're really
talented at it, but you can lean on it too

(27:51):
much and it can become a little unhealthy. So you're
using it where you shouldn't be using it. Because at
the end of the day, a talent used well with
a healthy approach, it's life. But when that talent starts
to become obnoxious for lack of a better word, now
we've stepped into a trap. So what that really means
is when I'm unhealthy emotionally, mentally, spiritually, my talent sometimes

(28:14):
can be crutches because it's where we shine and so
it kind of makes us feel better, and I think
that's when it becomes a trap.

Speaker 3 (28:21):
And then after top talents, it's discovering your top passions,
like what you enjoy, so assessing what work do you
love to do, how to perform your passion, and then
passion pitfalls to avoid, Like is that something you just
recommend people journal through too, Like if you really in
sort of an alignment with the self discovery, like sitting

(28:42):
down one day and maybe being like, what work do
I love to do?

Speaker 1 (28:45):
Absolutely go through it. Yeah, if you didn't have this assessment,
you would, I would just coach you and say, you know,
go through your day. You start with your current day.
And this may be really alarming for some people, but
walk through your day and if you're in a task
or a role or a meeting where you're perform for
me to roll or there's a thirty minute window where
you're doing this thing at the end of it just
right down. Does that lift me or does it drain me?

Speaker 3 (29:07):
Do you start doing that, like you said, with the
people you're around it's right when you walk away.

Speaker 4 (29:10):
Did they lift me up?

Speaker 1 (29:11):
Or did they directing with people, it's a great relationship.

Speaker 4 (29:13):
The emotional vampires one hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
John Gordon, that's my friend, he say. He says that, yes,
that's a great relational tool as well. But it's drive
me or drain me? Is so usual alliteration. I can't
help it. Either does this task drive me? Do I
look forward to it or do I? Gough? That was exhausting.
Same thing with people. Do those people if I look
forward to seeing them? Or am I trying to just
get through that time? That's big.

Speaker 3 (29:38):
The next thing is your top mission, the results you
want to produce, so results that fire you up how
to accomplish your mission, and then mission missteps.

Speaker 4 (29:49):
So I love that.

Speaker 3 (29:50):
Yeah, you go through the talents, the passions, and the
missions which or the mission which ultimately leads to your purpose.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
That's exactly right. So here's how the formula works. If
I use what I do best, my talent to do work,
I love my passion to produce results that matter to
me my mission. I'm living a very meaningful life, like
even in the sucky days you're going, I made a
difference today, and I will tell you my wife and
I adopted two boys. It's been a tough journey. This

(30:16):
is no playbook for that. The last three or four
years has been really excruciatingly hard. And my team knows this.
I'm very open about it. I hope it encourages somebody today.
But there were times where I wasn't sure I was
gonna be able to do my show. I didn't know
amy if I could give what I didn't have. I'm
supposed to come in and coach people who are stuck professionally,

(30:40):
and I'm falling apart personally. I remember one day, specifically,
there's like a little secret passageway behind the big screen
that we sit in front of, and they store stuff
back there, and I knew it was back there. And
one day, it was probably ten minutes before my show
was about to go live, and I went back there
and I was just sitting in the dark, just like praying,
like I don't know that I can do this. I

(31:03):
just still't know, and I remember somehow, I feel like
God just encouraged me in the moment that you're broken,
you don't feel like you've got anything, but there are
people who are going to call the show today. And
by the way, I'm the biggest fan of saying there
are times where I should have walked away, so let
me also encourage people. Don't try to gut it out
in that moment that day, I think God gave me

(31:24):
perspective and I was able to get a hold of
myself and go, Okay, I feel like I'm struggling at home.
I feel like I'm not doing a great job here.
Let me at least see if I can do a
good job for some other people today. I'll never forget
that show. And I'm bringing that up because without telling
the stories of that particular show was a very powerful day,
and it reminded me at the end of that show,
because all I wanted to do was go home take

(31:44):
a nap. It reminded me that this is what I
was created to do, and it gave me huge significance
and meaning on a day that I needed it because
I didn't think I was mattering as dad. So I
think that I take people doing work that is meaningful
so seriously because I believe that it is alixure for

(32:05):
the soul as I just think we were created to
work and there are times where it'll save your life.

Speaker 3 (32:11):
Well, I know you're big on again, not only the
people you surround yourself with, but as a leader, your
team and how you want to lead people. And also
you're able to get in front of the mic that
day because of the team you have too, no question,
and I know that from behind the scenes and what
I do like if I didn't have the team that
I had, there are days I definitely wouldn't be able

(32:32):
to show up. But I understand being in that position.
I am not the host of the show. It's the
Bobby Bone Show, and so as a co host, I
also have a lot of gratitude and for anybody else
listening where it's like you're not the boss. I can
see where you're like, I'm the host of the show.
I have to show up. I had moments very similar
to yours as an adopted parent as well, and was
going through a lot and sat down at the mic

(32:55):
and started to speak and I would just start crying.
And thankfully I had a team and support and Bobby
to look at me and say, go.

Speaker 4 (33:04):
Yeah, we got this.

Speaker 3 (33:05):
Absolutely, go take care of yourself. He's like, if you're
not well, I need you to go take care of
yourself first. And I have gratitude for that. That's not
lost on me.

Speaker 4 (33:14):
And I just feel for people that don't have that,
because there's people.

Speaker 3 (33:17):
Listening right now and there's like, yeah, right, that would
never fly with my boss or I show up and
it's like we'll suck it up, get it together. And
there are times you do need to, Okay, suck it
up and get it together. But if you feel like
you have a support system or you have leadership that
actually cares about you.

Speaker 4 (33:31):
And I know that's something you are really big on.

Speaker 1 (33:34):
Yeah, there's a real crisis in America in the business
world where leaders are so incapacitated themselves. They've not been developed,
they've not been trained on how to care for people.
They're stressed out of their mind. So I'm not making
leaders the bad guys and bad girls here because I
have a real heart for them. But there is this
weird dynamic where people are afraid to just look at

(33:56):
their leader and go. Without getting into the details, I
can't talk about it. I'm not even sure I can
get through this sentence. But I can't be here today,
and I got to take care of some business. But
I'll keep you posted. And we got to have leaders
who look at that person and in that moment stop
looking at them as a unit of production and look
at them as a person and going but for the

(34:16):
grace of God today or it might be me tomorrow
in that and as their leader, if I just step
into that moment with them and say, go be a
human like Bobby did for you.

Speaker 3 (34:27):
Well, and then my post father, everybody sets it that
day when someone's not there, other people are having.

Speaker 4 (34:34):
To fill in.

Speaker 1 (34:35):
It's a big deal.

Speaker 3 (34:36):
And to know that a team of people have your
back and that they'll be there for you.

Speaker 4 (34:41):
And yeah, just encouragement of if you're listening to this.

Speaker 3 (34:44):
Right now, and you are the manager, you are the leader,
or you're in a role where you're looking up to
someone and maybe they aren't that way. Well, how can
you rally your coworkers to have more of a connection
so at least you'll have each other.

Speaker 1 (34:56):
I think it's huge. I want to just say, quick,
am in on this. Here's what you do. You pull
your t together and go, hey, Ken struggling today. He's
got to take care of some stuff. We'll fill you
in as we need to, but let's come around him
right now. Let's all step up. Here's what happens. Two
great leadership things happen, which is huge reorganization. The person
that you do that for in this case, let's say
you or me, right, and you say go number one,

(35:18):
You build an unbelievable amount of loyalty from them because they,
maybe for the first time, see that you actually do
care about them. That's huge, massive loyalty. Because they see
that you care too. The rest of the team sees
it and they go, that could have been me, and
if something happens to me, I'm going to feel more
comfortable being vulnerable. And now the entire team grows in

(35:41):
its loyalty and you'll see teamwork and engagement go up immeasurably,
just because as a leader you went, don't know how
I'm gonna figure it out. The team will rally. Right now,
we need to send Amy home. She needs some time.
So it really is a huge deal and you'll never
lose in business if you treat people that way. Ever,

(36:01):
and here's a third thing people start talking about that
you watch people start wanting to come work for you
because they well, yeah, I heard what you did for
Amy one time, and I just I want to be
a place where I'm valued, where where my family matters
as much as my results. That's the competitive advantage in
the world of business today, the competitive advantage.

Speaker 4 (36:16):
And even amongst your coworkers.

Speaker 3 (36:18):
Then it gets contagious and oh yeah, everybody starts acting differently,
and then.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
Everybody's okay to be weak. It's somebody looking at you
going how are you doing? Actually caring, and they actually go,
you know, my mom's going through some stuff. I'm really scared.
She may have a tumor. We'll find out next week,
and I'm just yeah, whatever, you know, I mean, that's magical.
That's where relationship develops. You know, you have to be
best friends with people. You don't have to go have

(36:43):
drinks with them, just walk around with your heart the
antenna of your heart up, you know. And for leaders
it's huge. Like two questions leaders should ask. If you've
never led before in your life, won't encourage you. If
you've never led and you're in a new management position,
you're like, what do I do? Two questions every week
to your direct reports? Number one, how you doing? How
are you doing? Now? Take them a while to answer that,

(37:06):
but keep asking. And that's not a greeting in the hallway.
That's one on one how are you doing? Life good?
And let them answer whatever they want. Don't go doctor
phil on them. They'll give you what they feel like
they can give you, but keep asking. They'll give you more.
Second question, how can I help you win in your job? Now?
They'll eventually give you more on that too, but at

(37:29):
first they got to know that you care about them
before they go, I need a little extra training. I'm
struggling on this and most people won't tell you a
leader that. So it's so simple, but it's all human interaction.
Treat people like humans the way you would want to
be treated, and watch your leadership grow and your influence grow.

Speaker 3 (37:45):
Well, I'm even thinking of from a professional perspective that's
amazing too, But also as the leader in your home
with your kids, like actually sitting down and making time
and saying how are you doing? And maybe for some kids,
depending on their age, that might be an overwhelming question.
Get more specific of how are you doing this hour?

Speaker 1 (38:05):
Right? Isn't that true?

Speaker 4 (38:06):
Yeah? Because sometimes even I need that. I'm like, can
we narrow that down? And I can tell you?

Speaker 1 (38:12):
Can you be more specific in.

Speaker 4 (38:13):
This exact moment? Yeah? No, that was a welcomed detour.
I like where we went there.

Speaker 3 (38:18):
I just want to circle back quick as I had
a question about when you're finding your purpose. I just
want to circle back quick ause I had a question
about when you're finding your purpose and going through the

(38:40):
you know, the talents, the passions, the mission and your
purpose statement. I think some of us have been exposed
to that before and it makes sense like, oh, yeah,
of course I've come up with a mission statement for
my life or my year or however you want to
break it down, or you know, my personal life, my
professional life. People can probably have multiple But for you,
why would you say it's important and if someone's never

(39:01):
been exposed to that, or they're going to sit down
and do it for the first time, which obviously your
book is a great way to walk through it. But
why is it important that we create a purpose submission
statement for ourselves?

Speaker 1 (39:13):
Because every person on the planet, I don't care what continent,
what language, what religion, political persuasion, every person on the
planet is going to at some point ask this question,
what should I do with my life? I think there's
some fundamental things that you don't ever have to ingrain
in a human You and our parents, all the parents
listening here, they know that you don't have to teach

(39:34):
a kid to say no. They just figured out those
little cuties just one day, figure out how to say
no with some zest like, how did they figure that out?
That's the human desire to go no, Nope, nope, I
don't want to do that, right, that's just innate. I
think it's also the same when it relates to what
should I do with my life? Why am I here? However,
you ask that that's an innate soul craving. So the

(39:58):
reason why it matters is because I, again, whether a
person of faith or not, I never want to preach
it anybody, But I just don't think anybody can deny that.
We all want to get to the bottom of that answer,
like what should I do in my life? Why am
I here? So if you believe that that's something we
all crave to know, I think it's at the soul level.
And so there are good cravings and bad cravings. And

(40:20):
when your body craves water like it did for me
this weekend on the pickleball court at ninety three degrees,
I better listen to that craving or I'm gonna fall out.
We're gonna have a full on heat stroke right here,
like obsessed. It's probably unhealthy, but it's really healthy. But
here I am sweating like crazy. So my body's craving water.
I remember at one point, I'm like, I'm not doing well,

(40:40):
and I told the guys quick five minute break, I
gotta go get a liquid IV. In that situation, I
gotta listen to that craving. Craving salt at ten o'clock
at night, bad craving. So we inherently know what are
the good cravings. So I believe this back to this thing,
what should do with my our soul craves for an
answer there. So I think it's as simple as if
you don't answer that, and you don't give your soul

(41:03):
that craving, you will live your whole life and you
will get to the end of your journey and you
will be absolutely overcome with regret. There's a best selling
book written by a hospice nurse out of Australia. You
know this, you know where I'm going. I can see it.
One of the top five regrets is she's sitting with
the dying, and one of them was I didn't live
with the life that I really wanted to live. And

(41:24):
I think that's what I'm speaking to when I say
did I make the contribution that I want to make?
This is not about money? I really don't think it is.
I don't think it's about love per se. I think
you could put all these things into it, but I mean,
deep down, did I make the difference that I knew
I was supposed to make? And I'm sitting here this
is not a theory. I've coached almost ten thousand people.

(41:47):
Amy every one of them they just want to figure
out who the people are that they're supposed to help.
The most confused caller I get they just want to
know who am I supposed to help? Are you supposed
to help five year olds as a kindergarten teacher? Awesome?
Are you supposed to help single moms who've been abused man? Awesome?
Are you supposed to help heart patients who, if you

(42:08):
don't fix their heart, may never experience a long life? Awesome?
I could keep going and going and going. Every person
has some people that they know they're supposed to help.
And it's back to this design. I have this talent.
How do I figure out how to use it? Let's
go to the heart? All right? I love caring for

(42:29):
little children fantastic? And what are you caring for? Is
it just to give their moms and dads a break
a daycare? Or is it speech therapy? Or is it
being a doctor to save little nick you babies? I mean,
I'm just telling you.

Speaker 4 (42:45):
Could it be for some people?

Speaker 3 (42:47):
Again, back to the paying the bills, like you're in
this job and the patients. Maybe you're figuring it out.
Would it be that some of your purpose gets fulfilled
through your volunteer work?

Speaker 4 (42:57):
Yes, okay, it's not just.

Speaker 1 (42:59):
Very good And back to the earlier question, what do
I do when I'm in this day job that's kind
of sucking the life out of me. We played the
gratitude card, but now we go, all right, I can't
get qualified to be a physical therapist right now. It's
gonna take one hundred and twenty thousand dollars and five years. Okay,
But what I can do is probably find a hospital
or two or a therapy place where they need some volunteers.

(43:22):
And so I'm gonna get in there. I'm gonna walk
with elderly people who just got a hip replacement, and
I could do the volunteer stuff. And I'm that close.
I'm in the room. I'm watching it, and my heart
is beating fast, and that's gonna give me that juice
that call it on the air to keep me going.
There's no question that's a great idea. Find a way
to volunteer, get close to people that are doing the

(43:44):
thing that you want to do, and it will keep
that heart beating. And by the way, you need that
if it's a five to seven year journey, and that's
what I did. I mean, I told my wife it's
about five to seven year journey. And that's aggressive, babe,
for me to be able to make the kind of
money that we're making now in broadcasting. I go, it's
a tough journey. And I remember in the interim showing
up hanging out with again the Hawks play by play guy.

(44:08):
I'd help him out with game notes sometimes and just
sit one row behind him. Just every when I get discouraged,
I would go do something like that just to give
me that little jolt of oh. And you know what
else it does for you. It's that reminder that your
heart longs for this thing, and it's that reminder that, yes,
I am pursuing this thing that I really want to do.
Because if you get there and the heart's like, eh.

Speaker 4 (44:30):
Okay, yeah, that's going to tell your son. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (44:34):
And I love that you said we do all have
the deep desire within us to figure out our purpose.
Like I do believe that at my core too, and
so I know everybody has that question. But to be
able to sit down and actually map out what that is.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
Give you.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
I meant to give you three simple questions. Yeah, that'll
help this. Even if you never read my book, it dissesked,
but this will help you write down who the people
I most want to help. Just write it out so powerful,
don't type it don't put it on your phone. I
want you to physically write it out. We know from
psychology that's very powerful. Yeah, you're so. And by the way,
we can answer these questions every day for weeks on end,

(45:12):
and eventually the answers get better and better and better.
First question, who are the people I want to help?
Write it down I want to help. I'll give you
an example of a lady that I did this live
on the air with. So I write down the people
I want to help. The second question is what's the
problem or desire they have. Now you've already kind of
answered that when you write, but this is just to
go on another level deeper. What's the problem or desire

(45:33):
that they have? And then the third question, what are
the solutions to that problem or desire that fire me up?
So people I want to help problem or desire that
they have, and then solutions to that problem or desire
that I get excited about. Give you an example. I
had a lady call one time on the on the
show and she was so boisterous, she was awesome. She goes, ken,

(45:54):
I'm so confused, but you're gonna have a time with
me because I'm I'm not your average caller, and I said, okay,
what's going on? She goes, well, I make three hundred
five thousand dollars a year selling pharmaceuticals. I go, you're right,
you're you're crushing it. Way to go. She goes, but
I'm miserable, ken and I said okay, And so we
walked through those three questions. I said, well, will you
lock in and answer these right from the top of
your head? She goes yes. I said, to who the

(46:14):
people you want to help? She said, I want to
help women who don't feel good about themselves. I said,
what's the problem that they're having? And she goes their health,
their weight specifically, and I said, okay, I want's a
solution to that. Their health that you get most excited about.
She goes, I want to be a health and nutrition coach.
I want to do it both. I want to physically

(46:35):
train them and I want to help them with nutrition.
And I said that's amazing. I said, would you tell
me why those are the answers? And she got emotional
and begin to sob and she said she gathered herself
and she said, because the last six months, I've transformed
my body and my health, and I've transformed my life,
and I want to do that for other women. She goes,
I have better self esteem, and she went through this

(46:57):
very personal list of things that came from her just
taking control of her health. And so here is somebody
who started the call off going I have no idea
what I want to do, and when I asked those
three questions, her heart just went boo. And so that's
a practical list of questions. You may be a little
gray and fuzzy the first day, keep coming back, keep

(47:18):
coming back. Nobody has to see the answers, but I
believe your heart will reveal the answers those three questions.
And when you've got the people you want to help,
the problem or desire that they have, and solutions to
that prom or desire, guess what, there's a lot of
ideas that you'll get out in the world of work
to where you can step in and do that.

Speaker 3 (47:34):
Well. That caller is a great way to segue into
being unhappy at work and at impacting your mental health. Well,
that caller is a great way to segue into being
unhappy at work and at impacting your mental health. We

(47:57):
can't see even our our energy, but we know it's there.
We can't see our mental health deteriorating day by day.
But then suddenly it just feel like at some point
you wake up and you're like, I am not well,
it's right, but it's not like it happened that quickly.

Speaker 4 (48:12):
It was deteriorating over time.

Speaker 3 (48:14):
And so some people may not associate oh, yeah, I'm
I'm happy at my job, but so are a lot
of people. So how is it impacting us mentally where
we don't even realize it.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
Well, so let's look at the causes and then we'll go, oh,
I see this. So causes could be your leader or
your teammates. There's some type of rub there to where
the boss doesn't value you by recognizing you. You have
maybe backbiting, gossiping, kind of you know, kind of office
politics going on where you feel like you're just always
fighting as opposed to just doing your job. You feel

(48:46):
like there's this my boss doesn't recognize me. We see
that a lot in the data. That's one of the
biggest things. You wouldn't believe the data on that.

Speaker 3 (48:53):
It's just like you go to your boss and say, hi,
I don't feel seen and heard or do you yes.

Speaker 1 (48:58):
Theoretically, theoretical I would do it once. I'd go, hey, listen,
am I doing a good job? Like, do we have
a measurement system where we can have a regular basis,
because you know, I just like to know. Am I
crushing it for you? It's a pretty healthy response. But
a healthy leader will go, oh, yeah, absolutely, let's do that.
An unhealthy leader just goes, yeah, sure, that sounds like
a good idea, and they kick the can down the road.

(49:19):
And if they don't do it, it's time to move on.
Here's why. If you aren't recognized for your unique contribution
at work on a regular basis, it will eat away
your soul because you just feel like I'm not valued.
Why am I here? Another big cause of the stress
and burnout is boredom and a challenged You know, if
you're spending hours of day trying to stay busy and
that clock you're just looking at the clock. I don't

(49:40):
know about you, but my day flies and it's because
I enjoy what I do and I'm engaged, and so
I look up and it's like, oh it's time to
go do the Amy's podcast. Where the day go? You know,
that's what you're looking for. But boredom is the number
one cause of burnout because people don't feel challenged. So
there needs to be a sense of challenge. There needs
to to be a sense of am I valued? Am

(50:01):
I part of a community that cares that I'm actually here?
Those are your big causes and so you begin to
look at that and you go, no wonder, I'm all
stressed out. No wonder. When I get in the parking
lot or on the way in, I start to tense
up because I am trying to thrive and I don't
have anything that's allowing me to thrive. Gallop one of
the most respected polling firms in the country. They did

(50:24):
the largest study ever on engagement at work, and they
found out that there were three human needs that must
be met at work. I don't care if you're at
the seven to eleven or you're in the C suite.
One meaning and purpose in your work. We've been talking
about that. Am I in a unique role that I'm
supposed to fill? Two? Am I recognized for my unique contribution?
Like Amy, what you did the other day. You stepped
in on that call and you really read that girl's

(50:47):
mail and that was amazing or whatever, Just a nice compliment.

Speaker 3 (50:50):
So that's good for everybody, not just like I know,
my love language is words of affirmation. Yes, in a
romantic or in a professional setting. So overall, even if
that's not.

Speaker 1 (51:02):
Your people need to They need to have their leader
tell them you're doing a good job this way. So
they call it recognized for your unique contribution. Not good job, Amy, No,
it's like I want to call out something that we
saw or that a customer said, or you know whatever.
So it's a very specific thing. And then the third
human need that must be met is you got to

(51:24):
have a relationship with your leader. Now that freaks some
of you out. I know. I love when I say
this because some people are like, I don't want to
have it. Well that's we got to sign here. But
you actually do want that coach mentor relationship with your leader.
People want that. In other words, they want to know
that the leader is guiding them, investing in them, pouring
into them, steering, going hey, you're doing a great job

(51:46):
if you do this, I see you moving here. You know, hey,
great job. I know you're down, you know, uh, why
don't you take take a half day. I know you've
been going through it. That's stuff with your mom. Go
see your mom, take a long weekend, don't do a
PTO day. Just that's that shepherd or coach or mentor
not best friends. So it's not like I got to

(52:07):
hang out with my boss. Leaders need to understand that
people crave a relationship, and that relationship again is that
you are there for me and you are looking out
for me because if I win, you win, and leaders
need to understand that. I was on Fox Business recently.
They asked me a question like why are people flipping
jobs all the time? Why are they go And I said,
because it's not that the leader did something to them.

(52:29):
It's that it's what the leader didn't do for them.
It's that people don't want a better job anymore. They
want a better life. And if they feel like they're
coming in they're busting their tail for you and you
don't give them an add a boy or at a girl,
at some point they're gonna go, well this sucks. I'm
gonna go somewhere where I feel like I get an
add a boy.

Speaker 3 (52:44):
Every once in a while, do you ever have that
moment where you say too much, Like, for example, when
you got here, I was pulling up.

Speaker 4 (52:51):
We got here at the same time. And I had
a lot going on and I felt like.

Speaker 3 (52:54):
I was about to have a small, large mental breakdown
in my car, emotional breakdown.

Speaker 4 (52:59):
But I feel like it's valid. But I kind of had.

Speaker 1 (53:01):
To like without telling everybody, it was absolutely valid, and
I thought it won me over to you because you
were you were courageous enough to be real with somebody
you never met before, and I found it to be awesome.
It was authentic.

Speaker 3 (53:15):
I pulled up, but I did have when I came
in to kind of gather myself before we came to
sat down.

Speaker 4 (53:21):
Before we sat down, I was like, did I just
say too much? Why did I say that?

Speaker 3 (53:24):
And I thought at all It makes me wonder about
an employee with their leader of like you said, you're
not best friends, but how do you determine what is
the right amount to say so that they have this
knowledge of your sick mother and they can be there
for you in whatever way is.

Speaker 1 (53:42):
That's a really astute question. But like what, I'm not
sure I've ever been asked that before, But my gut
answer is you give as much trust to the leader
as they've allowed you to trust them.

Speaker 3 (53:53):
That leads me to my next thought of sometimes when
someone has too much information on you, they use it
against you.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
So it's exactly right. So what I meant by that,
I wasn't trying to be vague.

Speaker 3 (54:03):
It's just no, I understand that this is a question
that just seemed to me because I think really that
there's times where you have an encounter with somebody either
that you've just met or maybe a long time professional
person in your life, and you walk away.

Speaker 4 (54:18):
Please tell me, it's not just me. You walk away
and you're like, why did I just tell them all
of that? That was way too much information?

Speaker 1 (54:25):
Shut up? Shut up, shut up about of course I've
done that. I don't think you did that in this situation.
But let me because this is actually the answer to
the question. We'll come back to the other one too.
You just had a pretty momentous closure. I'm not speaking,
I just well I can say.

Speaker 3 (54:40):
I mean I was closing on a moving and so
it was the fine It like the final piece.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
Closure to a season of your life that has a
whole lot of highs and a whole lot of loose
That's what I was going to say. So that's only
normal to have a variety of emotion and a lot
of it. It just so happens at the of it
was right before I got here. So a healthy person
and I hope I'm healthy at least today, understands that

(55:07):
and immediately the response is empathy, not judgment. And that's
what happened. I think the circumstance and everything made it
make sense. There are times where I've shared too much
where the person's like, uh, I didn't have any context
at all. There was some context because you were emotional
when you got out of the car, so anybody half

(55:27):
a brain sees and I could see it, and so
we want to step gently there. And I think you
brought us into the moment to go, I'm a real
person and you're seeing real me right now, and I'll
be a pro in a minute. And I thought that
was endearing. There's a leadership lesson there too, and I
think to the extent that leader. So back to your
specific question, if a leader has not been weak around you,

(55:48):
I would be careful about being weak with them. And
if I never see you again, and I hope I do.
But the point is is that recalling this and my
team sitting over, they know this is true. What I'm saying,
I will brag about you you because of how authentic
you were. And if your name comes up in whatever
I got to tell you something, she's you know, she's
the real deal. That's what I would say about without
saying anything about what you told me, I'd go that amy,

(56:10):
she's a real deal. And so if the leader's weak,
the leader must lead with weakness. In other words, the
team knows when you're off anyway. Leaders, so instead of
them just wondering what's going on, what's going on? You
know all that stuff and go hey, listen, I'm struggling.
I'll feel you guys in later. It's all good. You
guys are good. This is something personal I'm dealing with.

(56:31):
Appreciate your thoughts, prayers, whatever you feel like comfortable saying.
But the team will go, oh okay, and healthy people
will have instant empathy. Now here's the other thing that'll happen.
The more you do that as a leader, and you
show that you care about them and you show your
own vulnerability, then they're going to be more comfortable being
weak and vulnerable with you. So if the leader hasn't
shown that, I would absolutely guard that carefully. This is

(56:55):
the key to having really good friends. And I got
some dudes in my life don't care about what I do.
They're not impressed. They just love me. And I can't
call these dudes. I can talk about my marriage, I
can talk about my kids. I can talk about frustrations
at work. I mean, I can be real. There's zipo
judgment and that's really huge to have that. So if
you don't have it with your leader or something like that,

(57:17):
you better have it on the outside. You cannot do
this on your own. You can't. It'll just eat you
alive and then it starts to like cascade on top
of you if you just keep it all in here.
And it may be a therapist, which by the way,
I'm a huge proponent of therapy. Huge, yeah, massive. I mean,
there's no way I'm even sitting in this chair.

Speaker 3 (57:34):
Same, same, same, So just to wrap up the mental
health piece and being unhappy at our job or and
I feel like it could apply to work, or if
you're happy in a certain environment and you're in maybe
your group of friends or something like that. But just
taking that assessment, what are some signs that we look

(57:56):
out for. Okay, this is not healthy because sometimes we're
just in the motion, especially when we.

Speaker 4 (58:01):
Show up for work.

Speaker 3 (58:02):
I feel like you show up, you do the job,
you're sort of detached in a way, which maybe that's
a sign one hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (58:09):
There's a theory on this called flow, and I always
like to give it outside resource, in my own resource.
And there's this legendary psychologist named Mihai Cheek sent me high.
You can never never spell it in a million years,
but he's got millions of views on a Ted talk
and he described the theory of flow, and he was
thirty years in his study of flow. You've probably heard
of it, and he basically says that flow is where

(58:31):
we get to a place where we have equal parts challenge,
meaning it's a challenging task and equal parts ecstasy, and
ecstasy in its purest form is the enjoyment because it
is equal parts challenging and I can meet the challenge,
so I have enough skill to actually do it. And
so those are some signs if I'm in the workplace

(58:54):
and I'm not challenged, like I've mastered this thing and
there's not a new challenge. What we do every show
is a different challenge, so we have that, you know,
But if we get to a point where we're just
on cruise control and there's no challenge. That's a sign.
The other thing is is that I just don't enjoy it.
And it's okay. By the way, you're not a bad

(59:15):
person if you evolve. Many times we do evolve. Our
passions evolve. You know, the root word of passion is peti,
and it means to suffer. So I would suffer for
my kids, and I know you would too. You know,
the people we love in our life, we would suffer
for it. We would suffer for certain causes. And so
that's passion, Like it's not a romantic thing here, this

(59:36):
is a conviction, like I will suffer. And for me,
I realized that broadcasting was something I was willing to
suffer for and I made less money for several years.
I didn't contribute to my retirement. I suffered just to
get the shot to do what I do now because
I know that that's what I was put on this
planet to do. And so if you don't have that joy,

(59:59):
like even on a really bad day, if you're not
ready to get up the next day and get back
after it because you actually love the role itself or
the task itself, that's a sign. And then we've been
talking about the other sign, and that's the people part
of this deal. You can absolutely do something in your
assessment that says this is my purpose statement. You could

(01:00:19):
be using what you do best, to do what you love,
to produce results of matter in a sucky environment and
be miserable because of the people side of it. So
if the people are dragging you down, that's a sign
get out of there. It's not your place.

Speaker 3 (01:00:32):
But then it's just not as simple as that. You
may have to have gratitude and be patient.

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
Yes, sorry, I always want to point out I never
want people to jump without a boat to jump into.
But my point is that's your sign it's going to
kill you emotionally. We did this simple little post amy
I don't know about a year or two ago, and
I saw some data and I just posted it. I
was sitting in a chair like this and I was
just like, research shows that your boss has more impact
on your mental health than your doctor. And we posted it.

(01:00:59):
It's like ten million views, like because everybody in the
comments on it is what it was just heartbreaking, Like
I wasn't excited about the amount of views. I was
honestly heartbroken by so many people resonating with that statement.
And I'm just bringing that up to say, because you've
been talking about mental health on this people thing to
the extent that you can hang in there just long

(01:01:20):
enough to get out of there, get out, get out,
get into something else. Because you're in a negative environment,
it will absolutely crush you. And as you know the
mental health piece, you're spending eight to ten hours a
day with a jerk boss or jerk coworkers. That's going
to affect you physically, spiritually, emotionally. You're gonna drag that
home with you. Your life cannot be a dumpster fire

(01:01:42):
at work and then you just go home and be like, hey,
flip a switch. Impossible. And that's why I'm passionate about
helping men so many times, because it's like, dude, your
marriage is failing and you're set up for an affair
or substance or any other temptation if you don't have
this contribute during the day where you go I did it.

(01:02:02):
And I'm speaking to men here because I'm a man,
but I'm just saying I think a lot of the
ills and marriages are are because men don't have any
meaning or purpose in their work during the day, and
so they're trying to find it somewhere else, and they
can't come home with all that on them and be
who they're supposed to be. They just can't. I'm not
making excuses for them.

Speaker 3 (01:02:21):
When you're miserable in certain areas. Like it's like that
self assessment of am I likable? You actually talked about
this on your show too, of am I likable? And
asking yourself that question, and that just stood out to me,
and it just talks if.

Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
You're not likable, you should you should probably figure out
why because the rest of your life is going to
unravel if you stay unlikable. Because I'm just telling you're
the problem if somebody did something to you inevitably and
somebody said something to you, and I acknowledge that. But
there's an old phrase in the church world called hurting
people hurt people, and it just couldn't be any more true,
you know. So I'm passionate about that. From the work standpoint,

(01:03:00):
I'm hitting it again because it's the same is true
for women. You know, if you're a working professional woman
and that's your gym and that's what you want to do,
I I love it. If you want to be a
stay at home Mom, go for it. It's a crazy
job in the whole world. No judgement either way, but
you better have that meaning and what that role is like,
this is who I'm supposed to be at this season
of my life. If not, I'm telling you your physical

(01:03:22):
health and data bas backs me up on this. Your
physical health, your mental health, your emotional health is going
to tank.

Speaker 3 (01:03:30):
My email from a listener she's actually a stay at
home mom. Oh yeah, well, so I have her name here.
She said in parentheses, keep me anonymous if you talk
about this. But she said, hey, Amy, so finances they
scare me. I'm inspired by you talking about taking ownership
of your own finances since your divorce. I've been married
for fifteen years, and I've always avoided talking about money.

(01:03:51):
I tend to avoid it and push it deep down.
I feel like it brings up a lot of fear
and emotions. My husband thinks I don't care about getting
things out or control, but I do. I just don't
know how to talk about money without pointing fingers and
blaming each other for spending too much, et cetera. We
both get so defensive. Are there any tips on how
to broach the subject and to face it. I think

(01:04:14):
I'm just going to be so mad that we didn't
get on top of it years ago. We could have
saved so much more by now. We have five kids,
I'm a stay at home mom, we have a lot
of medical bills due to some surgery, so there's lots
of emotions. I just want us to get on the
same page. I'm so sick of being stressed about money.

Speaker 1 (01:04:32):
Any tips appreciated, Yeah, you know, I'll borrow something from
my good friend Rachel Cruz. You wrote a book called
Know Yourself, Know Your Money. I think with this particular email,
she mentions that both of them are defensive when they
talk money. So what that tells me is we got
some fear, and that fear is coming from their past.
So my coaching session at their kitchen table will be
all right, each of you take five minutes, and I

(01:04:53):
want you to write down on your own words, how
money was viewed and how money was used from your past.
I'd start there, and what that's gonna do is is
reveal the way you feel about money from your past.
It's not your fault, Okay, this is back to that
environment issue. So I want to know how is money
viewed in your house when you're growing up, and how

(01:05:14):
is it used. And you may say, well, it was
viewed as a scarcity. We didn't have any boom. So
we got a couple now that may be doing okay,
and they're spending because they didn't have money growing up
and they don't want to do that to their kids.
I'm projecting here, but it could go that route. And
so you begin to understand, oh, I use money, or

(01:05:35):
I talk about money, or I don't talk about money
because of this. So we get that first. Then I
want them to sit together and i'd go all right,
I want you both to take five minutes and write
down where you want to be fifteen twenty years from
now with money. Describe it. You want the dream car, bro,
all right, tell us what it is. Is want a vacation,
what's that look like? You want to have a second home, whatever.

(01:05:57):
Both of you reveal your vision a dream for the future.
And then when we see that, now we can go okay.
The way we have viewed money was this way. This
is where we want to go. We are never going
to get there until we get on the same page
about money. So we got to take our collective junk
from the past and go I'm a little stingy because

(01:06:17):
of this, or I'm a free spender because of this.
And now we got to get together and go I'm
this way, you're this way. What are we going to do?
And then we say, all right, we're going to get
out of debt because we want margins. So it's going
to be really hard and really sucky for a long time,
maybe three to seven years to pay off the debt.
But on the other side of that, this is where
we're going to be. And I think it is a

(01:06:38):
marriage issue, not a money issue, and it just comes
down to self awareness, you know. I remember Stacy and
I had such a hard first year of marriage over
stupid stuff that we brought from our homes. Both of
our parents, by the way, been married you thank god,
you know, over fifty years, so we come from a
rich tradition of amer But our first year was over
stuff like it would be like six six o'clock, six

(01:07:00):
thirty and I'd come home from work and she wasn't
anywhere near the kitchen, and I wasn't the guy that
was like a few five fox FuMB put the food
on the table. But I was like, hey, what are
we doing? For dinner tonight, and she'd be like decorating
or doing something awesome in the house, and she'd go, oh,
I don't know, I haven't thought about it. And I'd
get frustrated, like, uh, but why because my mom had
dinner on the table. But then she'd be like, hey,

(01:07:22):
we need to get that fixed, and I go, oh, yeah,
we probably should, and I'd never fix it. Well, her
dad fixed everything. I can't fix anything. You know, little
stupid frustrations, and I bring that illustration up to go.
At some point, we got to go this is a
marriage issue, and we got to bring our collective views
on money together and go right or wrong? What's our
new view of money? And there's no chance that we're

(01:07:42):
going to ever live the life we want and not
have that regret she's talking about if we don't go
let's get on the same page.

Speaker 3 (01:07:47):
Yeah, I actually said new view of money. This is
an opportunity. They can create that together. But also, if
you are bringing in the old stuff and you take
that time to assess your childhood and what you've brought
to the relationship, just because you know your parents did.

Speaker 4 (01:08:01):
One way, Okay, what is going to be your way?

Speaker 3 (01:08:03):
Right? It's going to be your new way as a
couple in how you handle this together.

Speaker 4 (01:08:07):
And yeah, to hope that helps this listener. I think
I think it will like the communication.

Speaker 1 (01:08:14):
Yeah, you know why, because you can't adopt some rhythms together,
Like you can't listen to Dave Ramsey. Go do this
and then come home and tell him until we get
on the shared vision. Once we have shared vision, now
we can have shared behavior. You can't force shared behavior
absent of a shared vision, you just cannot.

Speaker 4 (01:08:34):
Yeah, getting on that same gotta.

Speaker 1 (01:08:36):
Have same vision age.

Speaker 3 (01:08:37):
Yeah, and then I just want to encourage you, the listener.

Speaker 4 (01:08:41):
You know who you are that you can do it.
I know there is fear.

Speaker 3 (01:08:45):
I'm someone I came from fear, and I did the
work and realized it came from my childhood, which was amazing.
But my husband always handled the finances, so for seventeen
years I didn't do it. When you go through a switch,
I had to take it over and it was so daunting,
and I kept hearing from people, it'll be so empowering,
you're gonna feel so good.

Speaker 4 (01:09:04):
Like take it on.

Speaker 3 (01:09:04):
And I didn't get it until I got it. You know,
we were talking earlier about knowing your worth, and I
was worthy of these money conversations. I was worthy of
knowing every detail and it did empower me, and I think, honestly,
me being a little bit more involved could have helped
certain parts of our marriage that was a lot of
pressure to put on one person. And so I'm just

(01:09:28):
encouraging the listener that you deserve it. You're worth digging
through these fears and getting involved and coming up with
a plan because future you. It's sort of like I
know you're big on routines and your morning routine, and
for me, I love when nighttime me takes care of
mourning me, because a successful morning starts the night before.

(01:09:50):
And so this is one of those things where a
successful future with your money starts all in the steps before,
which a step you gave them, which I think is
super helpful, would be to answer those questions and journal
through them. Like we've said even before too. There I'm
in one hundred percent in alignment with you on pen
to paper. There's something that is so powerful in actually

(01:10:11):
journaling your thoughts. And it may not be that it's
like okay, one day of journaling. This may take weeks
of you writing through what you're going.

Speaker 1 (01:10:19):
To do without question.

Speaker 4 (01:10:21):
Yeah, so thank you for that, Kens fun. I appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (01:10:24):
If y'all want to check kN out, he's on Instagram
at kN Coleman. And then obviously his show, The Ramsey
Show and The Ken Coleman.

Speaker 4 (01:10:31):
Show and your books which all have all the books.

Speaker 3 (01:10:33):
Linked in the show notes so they're easy to find
and get and hope you have the day you need
to have.

Speaker 1 (01:10:40):
Yeah, thank you, I appreciate it. This was fun.

Speaker 4 (01:10:42):
Thank you, Ken,

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