June 11, 2024 • 25 mins
Amy & Kat go over signs of open-minded people vs. close-minded people and that leads to an unexpected chat about cults. It all stemmed from the quote for this episode: "The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it." — Terry Pratchett
Dancing for the Devil: 7M TikTok Cult (doc on Netflix both Amy & Kat have watched)
Cultish: The Language of Fanaticism (book Kat recommends)
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HOSTS:
Amy Brown // RadioAmy.com // @RadioAmy
Kat Defatta // @Kat.Defatta // @YouNeedTherapyPodcast // YouNeedTherapyPodcast.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Happy Tuesday. Welcome to the Fifth Thing.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I'm Amy and I'm Kat And today's quote is from
Terry Pratchett, and it goes like this. The trouble with
having an open mind is that people will insist on
coming along and trying to put things in it boom.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
I feel like it's funny but also.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Deep and a good reminder that you know you can
be infiltrated.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
It makes me think of the cult documentary The Seven
m Dancing for the Devil, because we can have an
open mind, but we also have to have the awareness
of what we want to allow in and what we
don't well.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
And I think that you have different stages in life
where you may be more vulnerable or not. Because you
had two sisters in that documentary, well, one is participating
in the documentary.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
The other one's just in it. She's spoken out by
the way.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
But I don't want to give too much away in
case people want to go watch it, because it is
a fascinating story. It's terrible and sad, but overall fascinating,
and it's happening in real time, which is so weirdh
And you had one sister. They grew up with the
same parents, same loving home. They seem to be very tight,
great relationship and one that was susceptible to whatever is
(01:14):
happening and one that was invited into it and left
one of the dinners being like, I'm never going back
to this again. This just doesn't feel right, So I
wonder what it is. And maybe because there's a romantic
relationship tying her to that as well, and when you've
got a partner that's in it too, it's maybe more
difficult to see things.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
But yeah, that's on Netflix.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Highly recommend it, but it's heavy, So just know that
it does make you think and help you be aware
of just how quickly someone's life can change, because it
was it within a matter of year that their family
was turned upside down because of a dance cult. And
the crazy part is, I've seen them dancing all over
TikTok and my Instagram. They show up in my algorithm
all the time. I don't follow them, but I'm like,
(01:56):
I know these dancers and they look like they're having
so much fun and they're happy. But you'll see in
the documentary that people that have left the dance cult
are now sharing their side of it and just how
they go. They weren't able to see certain things. The
leader of the management company, he's also a pastor, and
then it's this rabbit hole of some cult like things
(02:16):
within his church for the last twenty years or something crazy.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
So it's a lot.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Anyway back to having an open mind. Do you think
you're a person cat that has an open mind or
you're more closed off?
Speaker 3 (02:31):
I think that I would have answered this question differently
if you asked me this a couple of years ago.
I want to say I have an open mind. I
want to say that. However, I feel like I've become
more of a skeptic in the past couple of years.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Yeah, because I'm so open to so many things, and
then sometimes I say I'm to you and you're like, Amy,
don't believe.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
That, And I'm like, what Sometimes it feels like you're
a Debbie Downer.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
But the same time, I guess that's the balance of like,
how do I stay open and also not join ad
that's cold? And now I look at things at first,
I look at them with a little bit of skepticism,
and then I have to like have some proof that
that makes sense, which sometimes it's not fun.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Well, I think that you're talking about some of the
more extreme things where you want the data behind what's
being out there, because let's be honest. You know, when
I was on my Joe Dispensa kick, they're kind of
talking about that, and it's like, Okay, where's show me
the data right of whatever he's claiming, Which if y'all
aren't familiar with him, you can google and you'll see
what we're talking about.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
But what about just in life?
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Because I think of me as a twenty year old
and I was not very open minded and welcoming to
certain ideas and things, not just stuff like a D
type category. It's more of like I definitely was more
judgmental in my twenties, and I maybe would have thought,
I think I'm pretty open minded, but I was very
small thinking like I kind of surrounded myself with people
(03:53):
that all thought like me, so I thought everybody thought
that way, and I was confused when they didn't, you know,
because I was like, wait, what yeah, kind of like
growing up as a Christian where everybody voted Republican, when
I started to meet Christians that voted Democrat, which I'm
not getting political here and I'm not even saying how
I vote. I just remember being shocked, like what will Well,
(04:14):
then you might.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Not be a Christian.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
I know the same thing.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
I was like, democrats are bad people, like we can't
be friends with them. I didn't even know what democrat meant,
but that was my thoughts.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
That's what I was surrounded by. So that was that
was before social media, So there was no echo chamber
as they call that now when your algorithm is feeding
you that stuff. But I had my own echo chamber
growing up of who you're around, and not that my
family walked around thinking.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
That it's just that everybody, yeah was that way.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
So I just thought, but it's not like my parents said,
you know, if someone votes this way or they think
this way, that they are this. But that's what I
developed on my own from what I was surrounded by,
and then I've evolved over time, and now in my forties,
I'm way more open minded, and I guess I keep
track of how I used to respond to certain things
on the Bobby Bone Show in my twenties that now
(05:06):
I would not respond that way after a lot of
life experiences and a lot of evolving and growth, and
some of it was being naive ignorant to certain things.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Whatever.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
But I have a list that people can run by
if like, you're curious, are you an open minded or
a closed minded person? Or are your friends your family
are they open or closed minded? I've got a little
checklist we can go over. So I'll ask you and
then you can see how how Cat responds and save
these questions for yourself. So for signs you're an open
minded person, You're respectful of other people's beliefs and opinions,
(05:38):
you listen to new ideas and perspectives, You're able to
change your mind when presented with new evidence, and you're
interested in learning about different cultures and ways of life.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Well, I want to say I do those things, but
I have a bias opinion of myself, so I think I.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
Do those I think you do.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
As your friend, I'll say that I think.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
That you do.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
I think the one that probably is the hardest is
being able to change my mind when presented with new evidence.
And I think I've learned that that isn't just a
me problem. A lot of people when they are given
new evidence or when you're in a debate, what researchers
have found is that people tend to double down on
their opinions when presented with counter evidence to disprove it.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
We do this like mental gymnastics things where we.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Like search for other ways to make our situation fit
versus really listen and be oh, because it's easier what
you're saying.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Well, again, I don't want to get political, but now
that you're saying that, it makes you think that must
be literally what some politicians are doing. Yes, yeah, yeah,
they're just doubling down because they don't want to face
anything like there has to be more room for compromise here.
We can't be so like black and white about certain things.
And it doesn't make sense to me. But now that
you're saying research shows that some people do that, maybe
(06:55):
that's part of what it is.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
And there's like I'm doubling down.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
We when it's easier to do that than it is
to dismantle all of these beliefs we've held because of
whatever they mean or whatever they hold for us. So
think about in a political debate, for you to be
in a debate and then for you to give me
a counter point, and I'm like, oh that makes sense.
It's like, well, then what I've lost this huge thing
and what am I supposed to do with that.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
And these for me because of this thing, so now
I can't.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
So that debate is not about kind of understanding or
having a compromise. It's literally I'm not even listening to
what you're saying. I'm just waiting to say my next thing.
So I think that is my hardest thing here. But
I don't think that means I'm not open minded, because
I think when you were talking earlier about open minded,
less about like Joda Spenza and more about Yeah, a
lot of my beliefs have changed in the past couple
(07:43):
of years in a I think flexible way.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Yeah, I mean, and I'll speak to me as someone
that went through a divorce. Now we've talked about how
twenty year old me would not have been okay with me,
twenty year old would be judging me, and now forty
year old me three has grace and compassion and you know, care,
and I'm more open to that this happens in life,
(08:08):
and obviously I know it happens. My parents got divorced,
but it's just something like I had this rigid like
that will not happen to me, and you need to
stick it out and people need to work together, and
that's why I'm the Bobby Bone Show. A similar example
from my twenties would be Bobby and Lunchbox would start
spitting out these ridiculous things that my husband would do
because I said divorce was not an option ever, and
they'd be like, what if he murder somebody goes to jail?
(08:40):
Bobby and Lunchbox would start spitting out these ridiculous things
that my husband would do because I said divorce was
not an option ever, and they'd be like, what if
he murder somebody goes to jail? I would double down
to jail, I'll commit a crime and will be sentenced
in the same place, and we'll be married happily ever after.
You know, I don't know, like I just would double down.
I couldn't just pause and be like, you know what,
(09:02):
you're right. Obviously there were like if something were to
happen totally horrific, which murder falls in that category, or
something that just is like unfathomable that real.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
People have to deal with and make decisions every day.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
You as a therapist, Cat, I'm curious your thoughts on this,
But like even that pastor from the documentary Dancing for
the Devil, I'm like, what happened to him? Or like
where did this start? What's the domino effect? And like
was he just born and had every opportunity to thrive
and somehow he became evil? Or like what was done
to him? And when is the pattern going to get broken?
(09:38):
Or or who's to blame or is it.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Just truly him to blame?
Speaker 2 (09:41):
I mean, I know we're all responsible, but everybody has
their own baggage that they bring and behaviors that are
this is happening because well this happened, And that's where
my brain always goes, is to thinking what happened to
them that made them do this? And it makes me
sad for them because it's like nobody, I guess I
can't say nobody.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
I don't know. Maybe psychopaths are just different.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
I'm not sure, but I would think that nobody is
like when I grow up, I want to be an evil,
manipulative cult leader.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
I would like to think that nobody thinks that.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
And I don't think anything abody is born thinking that
because you don't have those thoughts. But I struggle with
that a lot in the sense, I don't know if
this is exactly what you mean, but most of the time,
people that do the horrific things that you are speaking of,
certain types of abuse, something has been done to them, right,
so they're either like mimicking something or they're the way
they view relationships and people is just skewed, and so
(10:35):
they don't care, or they lack certain ability to relate
and have emotion and empathy. But where I struggle is
I can have a lot of understanding for why people
make certain choices. I can have that understanding, and I
can offer a certain amount of compassion for that, and
at the same time, people are still responsible for the
choices that they make. And we don't know his story.
(10:56):
We don't know what I mean, or maybe it is
out there. I'm not sure. I haven't seen it. But
something could have horrific happened in his life, and this
is like a trauma response. At the same time, he
is an adult making choices and making these decisions, and
so at a certain point the compassion cannot override certain things.
And I think that happens a lot with people who
(11:17):
get involved in groups like that like the Nexim Colt
and I mean even seven M and this Chakaina church.
I can have understanding for, especially why somebody would join
Nexium when it first started.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
Do you know what that is?
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (11:30):
I watched the documentary, so it sounds like something I
would have joined if I didn't know any better. And
it's supposed to help people become better professionals, and there's
all this personal growth at a certain spot. I have
to take accountability for what I chose to believe when
I was getting responses in my body that said, is
a little off.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Right, instead of doubling down, Yeah, you step back, assess
the situation, and then start to make some choices. And
I get that some others are more vulnerable. I mean,
and you'll see and the documentary if you watch it,
one of the women that was more part of the church,
not the dance cool, but the church part. And her
leaving is so difficult because that's your brainwash to think, well,
(12:16):
I'm gonna either go to hell or my whole family
is and if I stay, I save everybody.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
You know.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
And when you're not able to have irrational.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Thoughts because you've been brainwashed, then how do you step
back and assess situation.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
That's I don't want to say too much. I don't
know the answer to this. I wrestle with at a
certain point, we have no ability to actually see if
from what I've found, if brainwashing is like a real thing,
like if there is an ability for humans to be
removed of their ability to make free thought and free
will with their choices. And a lot of the reason
(12:51):
we don't have that information is because to do those
kinds of experiments they would be unethical, right, So it
would be like that at Stanford prison experiment.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
Do you remember that? Do you remember that?
Speaker 3 (13:01):
I don't know that you were alive during that, but
like that kind of thing I remember learning about that. Yeah,
it's just like we can't do those kinds of things.
So it's hard to know. And what I have found,
and I think that this is just as bad.
Speaker 4 (13:13):
This is just as hard.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Is there is something tying us to wanting to continue
to believe certain things like what you just said about
like God, Like our family is all going to go
to hell if I leave this church. So there's a
reason that we're going to choose to hang on to
that belief even though we there's a part of it.
It's like and you'll hear some of the people in
there talk about like I thought this was weird, but
(13:35):
he said this, and I was really afraid, but he
said this one is really afraid, and so I have
compassion and empathy for the idea that, gosh, I don't
know what it would be like.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
It's like those emails used to get in middle school.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
That would be like, if you don't forward this, your
whole family's gonna die, or if you do forward this,
justin Timberlake's gonna show up in your living room.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
And like a large part of me is like, Okay,
this is not real. But if there's one little.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Iota of a chance that my family's going to die
because I don't forward this email, I do not want
to live with that.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
And so that's what I choose to lean into.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
And this is way more complicated than I'm making it,
but I think that's the struggle that I have, is
how much of this is trauma? It is trauma, and
how much of this is choice? Where do we draw
the line? And maybe the best way to look at
it is it's both. And people can be victims and
in that vulnerable state make choices that they wouldn't have
(14:32):
made if they had better support and more support and
different support.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
What is the cult book?
Speaker 4 (14:37):
That you read sounds like a cult.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Okay, I'm so good.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
I thought you could throw that out there in case
people are getting interested. Had zero intent of talking about cults.
That's the podcast. The book is cultish. Yeah, okay, I
thought that. I was like, oh, is that a different book?
Cold Tish is the book? Because yeah, you sent me
a screenshot of it, and you were like, you have
to read this. I haven't yet, but I have it
on my life.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
You can listen to it.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
I listened to it.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Yeah, I might have to do that. I think I'm
gonna opt for some lighter it was.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
It wasn't the way she wrote that book, Amanda Montel
was very entertaining because she talks about things like Soul
Cycle and like CrossFit as like there's cult like things everywhere.
We all are susceptible to them, and based on our
community and our belief system, we're going to lean into
different things and rationalize different things differently. I thought it
was entertaining. It didn't feel like, ok, it's much cultish.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Kat's book recommendation just laughing because I was like, I
love that.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
The quote at the beginning.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
I loved it because it was funny, but also kind
of serious, and then we were going to lean a
little bit more lighthearted, and then we never really know
where something's going to go. And then I was like, oh,
we're talking about hard things because I also, in my mind,
I'm thinking about a public story. It's public ish and
my my role in people. I know of a family.
They're going through something extremely difficult that has become public
and I can't even imagine what the wife is processing.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
I can't.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
I try to have so much compassion for what they're
going through, even though I know that if I were
to just be reading it and not know that people,
I'd be like, oh, yeah, Chop is nuts off or
something like that, you know, like completely inappropriate.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
No, it's never that angry, it's.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Never that simple. But it's like when you know that people,
it h's different. And I'm not saying I know them well,
but when you know someone, then there's that different level
of compassion that comes in.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
It's like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
These are good people thought, but this is not good,
this is evil and what in the world. It's just
one of those things. Never planned on going there. Similar
to like, we don't really talk about politics at all,
which makes me think of a conversation I was having
for the Bobby Bone Show. I was talking with a
friend about how we don't really get political, because she
was like, oh my gosh, what is work going to
be like in twenty twenty four because the election. I
(16:57):
was talking with a friend about how we don't really
get political. She was like, oh my gosh, what is
work going to be like in twenty twenty four because
the election? I said, Well, lucky for us, we don't
go there because we are the respite from that. People
can get politics everywhere else they go and it can
be a lot, but they know they can tune into
us and that's not what they're going to get. They're
going to get the opposite. But you don't want to
(17:18):
be dismissive of what's happening in the world. So she's like, well,
maybe y'all could address it and you talk about who
you wish was on the ballot, like if you get
your own little celebrity version, like you would want it
to be like the Rock versus Dolly or something, who
would you vote for it? Like that's your twenty twenty
four ballots making a little more fun or lunchbucks even
throughout something the other day and we were having a
(17:39):
conversation and he was like, I don't know, can we
talk about which one dies first? Because like, nobody's yeah pumped,
Nobody that I know is pumped about either option. So
it's like, how do you just talk about it without
really talking about it and making it a thing. And
so if politics get high in your home and the
come months.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Try to make it fun, like talk about who's gonna
die first.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
I don't talk about it, but like, let's see who
enters hospice first or something.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
They're just both incredibly old. They're elder I like elderly people,
but not running like and like I like rational people,
kind of in somewhat saying ish and I just don't
know that we're there right now.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Good people aren't suffering from like early on set. Well
I guess that wouldn't be early on set dementia. That
would just be like dementia, right, because they're not sure.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Yeah, I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
I thought I would throw out like a fun idea
in case you're in an intense political conversation around the
kitchen table you don't want to be a part of it,
just be like, how about this who is a celebrity
or singer, like a fun person that you want on
the who would you vote for?
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Create some drafts and then make it fun.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
I just can't imagine having intense political conversations around the season,
Like I know it's just gonna get worse. It's gonna
be it's going to inundate us, and I'm going to
try to figure out how the heck I can avoid
it because.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
It's going to be everywhere.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
Well, yeah, how do you avoid it?
Speaker 3 (19:04):
But also like and if you watch information, then like
how do you find it without overloading yourself too?
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Or like when the election happens, like whoever wins? Like
I don't even want to deal with the people that
respond in the unhealthy ways. Peaceful protesting all day long,
but things just don't always stay peaceful, and then people.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Get hurt and let's move on.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
I have four signs that you're a close minded person.
So we went over the four signs. You're open minded.
You don't like to consider new perspectives and you don't
like to change your opinions. You don't like to learn
from your mistakes. You lack curiosity, you don't question if
you could be wrong about something like within yourself, like, hmm,
(19:44):
maybe I am wrong about this. I feel like younger
me was a little bit of that at times, and
I feel like as I age, I'm way more curious.
I do like to consider new perspectives. I have been
able to change my opinions. I most definitely want to
learn from my miss stakes and I question myself all
the time.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
I was gonna say, maybe that can get too.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Far, Yeah, like all the time.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Well, I think also something that I've learned that probably
was difficult to learn. And I don't know that I
would always have admitted this, But the more I think
I have learned, whether it's about myself or the world,
it brings more of an awareness of how much we
actually don't know, and also the capacity that we don't
have the ability to know it. Like I don't know
that I can that any of us can have the
(20:29):
ability to know certain things. And I don't know if
that comes from age or experience, but I think that
sometimes gets maybe in the way, not that I'm closed minded,
but I can be at a fault open to being
wrong because I think I've sat with that idea that
like this is what I think, But also I thought
this ten years ago and that changed.
Speaker 4 (20:49):
So that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Yes, you do make sense. And it makes me think
of the quote, which have you seen Bill and Ted's
Excellent Adventures?
Speaker 4 (20:56):
I don't have never heard.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Okay, they did a remake kind of recently, but this
is from the original one nineteen eighty nine, the og one.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
You shows that I was born.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Should definitely watch it with Patrick. But you learn about
all these people in history and Socrates is one of them,
and there's a Socrates quote which is only true wisdom is.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
In knowing that you know nothing.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Oh, and there's been a lot of quotes very similar
to that that people have said over time that actually
are very wise, and you would look up to and
they're philosophers, their deep yeapers and you're like, gosh, they
know so much, but they'll be the first to say
I know nothing. Like the minute you have a problem
is when you think you know everything.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
So in Phillin Dad's Excellent Adventure, though they call them
like sokrats, is it like a comedy, Yes, it's a
funny movie, but they are working on a history project
and it's like they take you through all these different things.
And so when you're watching this comedy, you're actually learning
learning history at the same time. But Socrates, the way
(22:01):
it is spelled, it looks like so crats.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
So they're like soul crags.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
They're like, let's up, do you Yeah, I'm trying to
think of their personalities like they're surfing going on.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Yeah, and they're like, let's go learn about soa crags
you know, okay, that kind of thing. It's funny.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
So you got a book recommendation from this episode Cultish,
and you got a movie recommendation from this episode. And
then you also should just try to be open minded
because when you're open minded, you don't have to be
right all the time.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
Just a relief, that's what it is.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yeah, you just want to be understood and you want
everyone to feel understood, and then you have more space
for understands. Understood this under all the understandings everywhere.
Speaker 4 (22:44):
Just love everybody.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Yeah, but also have passion and care, but then don't
care to where you end up doubling down so hard
where you're like, wait, does I go what I'm saying?
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Do you care?
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Where did I hear this? I heard something? Oh, it's
gonna bother me? Where it came from? Where somebody said. Honestly,
I think it was Lisa vander Pomp, but she said
would you rather be right? Or woud you rather be happy?
That has been sitting with me the last week. Would
you rather be right? Or do you rather be happy?
And sometimes we can change that. Would you rather be right?
Or would you rather be understood? Would you rather be right?
(23:16):
Or DoD you rather have peace? I think being right
gets in the way of so many things that actually
don't matter as much.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Yeah, I think. I mean, I just googled it. I
feel like it's a common thing.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
That so grad to say that too, so crad dude,
would you rather be right?
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Or would you rather be happy? I don't know. It's
a cute movie.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
You need to watch it and maybe even watch the remake.
I wish that that's how school was taught.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
As a comedy.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Yeah, as a comedy movie or a play or like
all the teachers would get together and be like, all right,
today we're learning about this, and they would all act
out in these characters and teach it in like.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
A fun way. That would have been very helpful for my brain.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
Yeah, well, you should have the option of what track
you want to go into, Like do you want to
go into like learn through comedy track or learn through
textbook track.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Maybe that's the future. Yeah, maybe they are.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
I mean it already has evolved in a way that
they don't teach everybody the same anymore like they used to. Yeah,
and in some place that there is still like a
blanket way of learning, but there are definitely more avenues
for like, Hey, if you happen to learn this way,
you can have more time to do this, or if
you need this read to you audibly, this might be
better because of the way your brain processes. And they
have those options, and that's great for my kids. I
(24:28):
wish I had that option because I know now with
stuff that I've learned about my brain, having stuff audibly
done would have been so beneficial for me, especially audibly
with actors on a screen doing fun things the history.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Yeah. So, Kat, where can people find you?
Speaker 3 (24:45):
On Instagram? At You Need Therapy Podcasts and at cat
dot Defauda.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
And I'm at Radio Amy and have the day you
need to have. Bye by
Happy Tuesday. Welcome to the Fifth Thing.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I'm Amy and I'm Kat And today's quote is from
Terry Pratchett, and it goes like this. The trouble with
having an open mind is that people will insist on
coming along and trying to put things in it boom.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
I feel like it's funny but also.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Deep and a good reminder that you know you can
be infiltrated.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
It makes me think of the cult documentary The Seven
m Dancing for the Devil, because we can have an
open mind, but we also have to have the awareness
of what we want to allow in and what we
don't well.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
And I think that you have different stages in life
where you may be more vulnerable or not. Because you
had two sisters in that documentary, well, one is participating
in the documentary.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
The other one's just in it. She's spoken out by
the way.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
But I don't want to give too much away in
case people want to go watch it, because it is
a fascinating story. It's terrible and sad, but overall fascinating,
and it's happening in real time, which is so weirdh
And you had one sister. They grew up with the
same parents, same loving home. They seem to be very tight,
great relationship and one that was susceptible to whatever is
(01:14):
happening and one that was invited into it and left
one of the dinners being like, I'm never going back
to this again. This just doesn't feel right, So I
wonder what it is. And maybe because there's a romantic
relationship tying her to that as well, and when you've
got a partner that's in it too, it's maybe more
difficult to see things.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
But yeah, that's on Netflix.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Highly recommend it, but it's heavy, So just know that
it does make you think and help you be aware
of just how quickly someone's life can change, because it
was it within a matter of year that their family
was turned upside down because of a dance cult. And
the crazy part is, I've seen them dancing all over
TikTok and my Instagram. They show up in my algorithm
all the time. I don't follow them, but I'm like,
(01:56):
I know these dancers and they look like they're having
so much fun and they're happy. But you'll see in
the documentary that people that have left the dance cult
are now sharing their side of it and just how
they go. They weren't able to see certain things. The
leader of the management company, he's also a pastor, and
then it's this rabbit hole of some cult like things
(02:16):
within his church for the last twenty years or something crazy.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
So it's a lot.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Anyway back to having an open mind. Do you think
you're a person cat that has an open mind or
you're more closed off?
Speaker 3 (02:31):
I think that I would have answered this question differently
if you asked me this a couple of years ago.
I want to say I have an open mind. I
want to say that. However, I feel like I've become
more of a skeptic in the past couple of years.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Yeah, because I'm so open to so many things, and
then sometimes I say I'm to you and you're like, Amy,
don't believe.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
That, And I'm like, what Sometimes it feels like you're
a Debbie Downer.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
But the same time, I guess that's the balance of like,
how do I stay open and also not join ad
that's cold? And now I look at things at first,
I look at them with a little bit of skepticism,
and then I have to like have some proof that
that makes sense, which sometimes it's not fun.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Well, I think that you're talking about some of the
more extreme things where you want the data behind what's
being out there, because let's be honest. You know, when
I was on my Joe Dispensa kick, they're kind of
talking about that, and it's like, Okay, where's show me
the data right of whatever he's claiming, Which if y'all
aren't familiar with him, you can google and you'll see
what we're talking about.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
But what about just in life?
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Because I think of me as a twenty year old
and I was not very open minded and welcoming to
certain ideas and things, not just stuff like a D
type category. It's more of like I definitely was more
judgmental in my twenties, and I maybe would have thought,
I think I'm pretty open minded, but I was very
small thinking like I kind of surrounded myself with people
(03:53):
that all thought like me, so I thought everybody thought
that way, and I was confused when they didn't, you know,
because I was like, wait, what yeah, kind of like
growing up as a Christian where everybody voted Republican, when
I started to meet Christians that voted Democrat, which I'm
not getting political here and I'm not even saying how
I vote. I just remember being shocked, like what will Well,
(04:14):
then you might.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Not be a Christian.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
I know the same thing.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
I was like, democrats are bad people, like we can't
be friends with them. I didn't even know what democrat meant,
but that was my thoughts.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
That's what I was surrounded by. So that was that
was before social media, So there was no echo chamber
as they call that now when your algorithm is feeding
you that stuff. But I had my own echo chamber
growing up of who you're around, and not that my
family walked around thinking.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
That it's just that everybody, yeah was that way.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
So I just thought, but it's not like my parents said,
you know, if someone votes this way or they think
this way, that they are this. But that's what I
developed on my own from what I was surrounded by,
and then I've evolved over time, and now in my forties,
I'm way more open minded, and I guess I keep
track of how I used to respond to certain things
on the Bobby Bone Show in my twenties that now
(05:06):
I would not respond that way after a lot of
life experiences and a lot of evolving and growth, and
some of it was being naive ignorant to certain things.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Whatever.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
But I have a list that people can run by
if like, you're curious, are you an open minded or
a closed minded person? Or are your friends your family
are they open or closed minded? I've got a little
checklist we can go over. So I'll ask you and
then you can see how how Cat responds and save
these questions for yourself. So for signs you're an open
minded person, You're respectful of other people's beliefs and opinions,
(05:38):
you listen to new ideas and perspectives, You're able to
change your mind when presented with new evidence, and you're
interested in learning about different cultures and ways of life.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Well, I want to say I do those things, but
I have a bias opinion of myself, so I think I.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
Do those I think you do.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
As your friend, I'll say that I think.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
That you do.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
I think the one that probably is the hardest is
being able to change my mind when presented with new evidence.
And I think I've learned that that isn't just a
me problem. A lot of people when they are given
new evidence or when you're in a debate, what researchers
have found is that people tend to double down on
their opinions when presented with counter evidence to disprove it.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
We do this like mental gymnastics things where we.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Like search for other ways to make our situation fit
versus really listen and be oh, because it's easier what
you're saying.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Well, again, I don't want to get political, but now
that you're saying that, it makes you think that must
be literally what some politicians are doing. Yes, yeah, yeah,
they're just doubling down because they don't want to face
anything like there has to be more room for compromise here.
We can't be so like black and white about certain things.
And it doesn't make sense to me. But now that
you're saying research shows that some people do that, maybe
(06:55):
that's part of what it is.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
And there's like I'm doubling down.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
We when it's easier to do that than it is
to dismantle all of these beliefs we've held because of
whatever they mean or whatever they hold for us. So
think about in a political debate, for you to be
in a debate and then for you to give me
a counter point, and I'm like, oh that makes sense.
It's like, well, then what I've lost this huge thing
and what am I supposed to do with that.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
And these for me because of this thing, so now
I can't.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
So that debate is not about kind of understanding or
having a compromise. It's literally I'm not even listening to
what you're saying. I'm just waiting to say my next thing.
So I think that is my hardest thing here. But
I don't think that means I'm not open minded, because
I think when you were talking earlier about open minded,
less about like Joda Spenza and more about Yeah, a
lot of my beliefs have changed in the past couple
(07:43):
of years in a I think flexible way.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Yeah, I mean, and I'll speak to me as someone
that went through a divorce. Now we've talked about how
twenty year old me would not have been okay with me,
twenty year old would be judging me, and now forty
year old me three has grace and compassion and you know, care,
and I'm more open to that this happens in life,
(08:08):
and obviously I know it happens. My parents got divorced,
but it's just something like I had this rigid like
that will not happen to me, and you need to
stick it out and people need to work together, and
that's why I'm the Bobby Bone Show. A similar example
from my twenties would be Bobby and Lunchbox would start
spitting out these ridiculous things that my husband would do
because I said divorce was not an option ever, and
they'd be like, what if he murder somebody goes to jail?
(08:40):
Bobby and Lunchbox would start spitting out these ridiculous things
that my husband would do because I said divorce was
not an option ever, and they'd be like, what if
he murder somebody goes to jail? I would double down
to jail, I'll commit a crime and will be sentenced
in the same place, and we'll be married happily ever after.
You know, I don't know, like I just would double down.
I couldn't just pause and be like, you know what,
(09:02):
you're right. Obviously there were like if something were to
happen totally horrific, which murder falls in that category, or
something that just is like unfathomable that real.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
People have to deal with and make decisions every day.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
You as a therapist, Cat, I'm curious your thoughts on this,
But like even that pastor from the documentary Dancing for
the Devil, I'm like, what happened to him? Or like
where did this start? What's the domino effect? And like
was he just born and had every opportunity to thrive
and somehow he became evil? Or like what was done
to him? And when is the pattern going to get broken?
(09:38):
Or or who's to blame or is it.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Just truly him to blame?
Speaker 2 (09:41):
I mean, I know we're all responsible, but everybody has
their own baggage that they bring and behaviors that are
this is happening because well this happened, And that's where
my brain always goes, is to thinking what happened to
them that made them do this? And it makes me
sad for them because it's like nobody, I guess I
can't say nobody.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
I don't know. Maybe psychopaths are just different.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
I'm not sure, but I would think that nobody is
like when I grow up, I want to be an evil,
manipulative cult leader.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
I would like to think that nobody thinks that.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
And I don't think anything abody is born thinking that
because you don't have those thoughts. But I struggle with
that a lot in the sense, I don't know if
this is exactly what you mean, but most of the time,
people that do the horrific things that you are speaking of,
certain types of abuse, something has been done to them, right,
so they're either like mimicking something or they're the way
they view relationships and people is just skewed, and so
(10:35):
they don't care, or they lack certain ability to relate
and have emotion and empathy. But where I struggle is
I can have a lot of understanding for why people
make certain choices. I can have that understanding, and I
can offer a certain amount of compassion for that, and
at the same time, people are still responsible for the
choices that they make. And we don't know his story.
(10:56):
We don't know what I mean, or maybe it is
out there. I'm not sure. I haven't seen it. But
something could have horrific happened in his life, and this
is like a trauma response. At the same time, he
is an adult making choices and making these decisions, and
so at a certain point the compassion cannot override certain things.
And I think that happens a lot with people who
(11:17):
get involved in groups like that like the Nexim Colt
and I mean even seven M and this Chakaina church.
I can have understanding for, especially why somebody would join
Nexium when it first started.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
Do you know what that is?
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (11:30):
I watched the documentary, so it sounds like something I
would have joined if I didn't know any better. And
it's supposed to help people become better professionals, and there's
all this personal growth at a certain spot. I have
to take accountability for what I chose to believe when
I was getting responses in my body that said, is
a little off.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Right, instead of doubling down, Yeah, you step back, assess
the situation, and then start to make some choices. And
I get that some others are more vulnerable. I mean,
and you'll see and the documentary if you watch it,
one of the women that was more part of the church,
not the dance cool, but the church part. And her
leaving is so difficult because that's your brainwash to think, well,
(12:16):
I'm gonna either go to hell or my whole family
is and if I stay, I save everybody.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
You know.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
And when you're not able to have irrational.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Thoughts because you've been brainwashed, then how do you step
back and assess situation.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
That's I don't want to say too much. I don't
know the answer to this. I wrestle with at a
certain point, we have no ability to actually see if
from what I've found, if brainwashing is like a real thing,
like if there is an ability for humans to be
removed of their ability to make free thought and free
will with their choices. And a lot of the reason
(12:51):
we don't have that information is because to do those
kinds of experiments they would be unethical, right, So it
would be like that at Stanford prison experiment.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
Do you remember that? Do you remember that?
Speaker 3 (13:01):
I don't know that you were alive during that, but
like that kind of thing I remember learning about that. Yeah,
it's just like we can't do those kinds of things.
So it's hard to know. And what I have found,
and I think that this is just as bad.
Speaker 4 (13:13):
This is just as hard.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Is there is something tying us to wanting to continue
to believe certain things like what you just said about
like God, Like our family is all going to go
to hell if I leave this church. So there's a
reason that we're going to choose to hang on to
that belief even though we there's a part of it.
It's like and you'll hear some of the people in
there talk about like I thought this was weird, but
(13:35):
he said this, and I was really afraid, but he
said this one is really afraid, and so I have
compassion and empathy for the idea that, gosh, I don't
know what it would be like.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
It's like those emails used to get in middle school.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
That would be like, if you don't forward this, your
whole family's gonna die, or if you do forward this,
justin Timberlake's gonna show up in your living room.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
And like a large part of me is like, Okay,
this is not real. But if there's one little.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Iota of a chance that my family's going to die
because I don't forward this email, I do not want
to live with that.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
And so that's what I choose to lean into.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
And this is way more complicated than I'm making it,
but I think that's the struggle that I have, is
how much of this is trauma? It is trauma, and
how much of this is choice? Where do we draw
the line? And maybe the best way to look at
it is it's both. And people can be victims and
in that vulnerable state make choices that they wouldn't have
(14:32):
made if they had better support and more support and
different support.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
What is the cult book?
Speaker 4 (14:37):
That you read sounds like a cult.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Okay, I'm so good.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
I thought you could throw that out there in case
people are getting interested. Had zero intent of talking about cults.
That's the podcast. The book is cultish. Yeah, okay, I
thought that. I was like, oh, is that a different book?
Cold Tish is the book? Because yeah, you sent me
a screenshot of it, and you were like, you have
to read this. I haven't yet, but I have it
on my life.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
You can listen to it.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
I listened to it.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Yeah, I might have to do that. I think I'm
gonna opt for some lighter it was.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
It wasn't the way she wrote that book, Amanda Montel
was very entertaining because she talks about things like Soul
Cycle and like CrossFit as like there's cult like things everywhere.
We all are susceptible to them, and based on our
community and our belief system, we're going to lean into
different things and rationalize different things differently. I thought it
was entertaining. It didn't feel like, ok, it's much cultish.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Kat's book recommendation just laughing because I was like, I
love that.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
The quote at the beginning.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
I loved it because it was funny, but also kind
of serious, and then we were going to lean a
little bit more lighthearted, and then we never really know
where something's going to go. And then I was like, oh,
we're talking about hard things because I also, in my mind,
I'm thinking about a public story. It's public ish and
my my role in people. I know of a family.
They're going through something extremely difficult that has become public
and I can't even imagine what the wife is processing.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
I can't.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
I try to have so much compassion for what they're
going through, even though I know that if I were
to just be reading it and not know that people,
I'd be like, oh, yeah, Chop is nuts off or
something like that, you know, like completely inappropriate.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
No, it's never that angry, it's.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Never that simple. But it's like when you know that people,
it h's different. And I'm not saying I know them well,
but when you know someone, then there's that different level
of compassion that comes in.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
It's like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
These are good people thought, but this is not good,
this is evil and what in the world. It's just
one of those things. Never planned on going there. Similar
to like, we don't really talk about politics at all,
which makes me think of a conversation I was having
for the Bobby Bone Show. I was talking with a
friend about how we don't really get political, because she
was like, oh my gosh, what is work going to
be like in twenty twenty four because the election. I
(16:57):
was talking with a friend about how we don't really
get political. She was like, oh my gosh, what is
work going to be like in twenty twenty four because
the election? I said, Well, lucky for us, we don't
go there because we are the respite from that. People
can get politics everywhere else they go and it can
be a lot, but they know they can tune into
us and that's not what they're going to get. They're
going to get the opposite. But you don't want to
(17:18):
be dismissive of what's happening in the world. So she's like, well,
maybe y'all could address it and you talk about who
you wish was on the ballot, like if you get
your own little celebrity version, like you would want it
to be like the Rock versus Dolly or something, who
would you vote for it? Like that's your twenty twenty
four ballots making a little more fun or lunchbucks even
throughout something the other day and we were having a
(17:39):
conversation and he was like, I don't know, can we
talk about which one dies first? Because like, nobody's yeah pumped,
Nobody that I know is pumped about either option. So
it's like, how do you just talk about it without
really talking about it and making it a thing. And
so if politics get high in your home and the
come months.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Try to make it fun, like talk about who's gonna
die first.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
I don't talk about it, but like, let's see who
enters hospice first or something.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
They're just both incredibly old. They're elder I like elderly people,
but not running like and like I like rational people,
kind of in somewhat saying ish and I just don't
know that we're there right now.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Good people aren't suffering from like early on set. Well
I guess that wouldn't be early on set dementia. That
would just be like dementia, right, because they're not sure.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Yeah, I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
I thought I would throw out like a fun idea
in case you're in an intense political conversation around the
kitchen table you don't want to be a part of it,
just be like, how about this who is a celebrity
or singer, like a fun person that you want on
the who would you vote for?
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Create some drafts and then make it fun.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
I just can't imagine having intense political conversations around the season,
Like I know it's just gonna get worse. It's gonna
be it's going to inundate us, and I'm going to
try to figure out how the heck I can avoid
it because.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
It's going to be everywhere.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
Well, yeah, how do you avoid it?
Speaker 3 (19:04):
But also like and if you watch information, then like
how do you find it without overloading yourself too?
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Or like when the election happens, like whoever wins? Like
I don't even want to deal with the people that
respond in the unhealthy ways. Peaceful protesting all day long,
but things just don't always stay peaceful, and then people.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Get hurt and let's move on.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
I have four signs that you're a close minded person.
So we went over the four signs. You're open minded.
You don't like to consider new perspectives and you don't
like to change your opinions. You don't like to learn
from your mistakes. You lack curiosity, you don't question if
you could be wrong about something like within yourself, like, hmm,
(19:44):
maybe I am wrong about this. I feel like younger
me was a little bit of that at times, and
I feel like as I age, I'm way more curious.
I do like to consider new perspectives. I have been
able to change my opinions. I most definitely want to
learn from my miss stakes and I question myself all
the time.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
I was gonna say, maybe that can get too.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Far, Yeah, like all the time.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Well, I think also something that I've learned that probably
was difficult to learn. And I don't know that I
would always have admitted this, But the more I think
I have learned, whether it's about myself or the world,
it brings more of an awareness of how much we
actually don't know, and also the capacity that we don't
have the ability to know it. Like I don't know
that I can that any of us can have the
(20:29):
ability to know certain things. And I don't know if
that comes from age or experience, but I think that
sometimes gets maybe in the way, not that I'm closed minded,
but I can be at a fault open to being
wrong because I think I've sat with that idea that
like this is what I think, But also I thought
this ten years ago and that changed.
Speaker 4 (20:49):
So that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Yes, you do make sense. And it makes me think
of the quote, which have you seen Bill and Ted's
Excellent Adventures?
Speaker 4 (20:56):
I don't have never heard.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Okay, they did a remake kind of recently, but this
is from the original one nineteen eighty nine, the og one.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
You shows that I was born.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Should definitely watch it with Patrick. But you learn about
all these people in history and Socrates is one of them,
and there's a Socrates quote which is only true wisdom is.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
In knowing that you know nothing.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Oh, and there's been a lot of quotes very similar
to that that people have said over time that actually
are very wise, and you would look up to and
they're philosophers, their deep yeapers and you're like, gosh, they
know so much, but they'll be the first to say
I know nothing. Like the minute you have a problem
is when you think you know everything.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
So in Phillin Dad's Excellent Adventure, though they call them
like sokrats, is it like a comedy, Yes, it's a
funny movie, but they are working on a history project
and it's like they take you through all these different things.
And so when you're watching this comedy, you're actually learning
learning history at the same time. But Socrates, the way
(22:01):
it is spelled, it looks like so crats.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
So they're like soul crags.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
They're like, let's up, do you Yeah, I'm trying to
think of their personalities like they're surfing going on.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Yeah, and they're like, let's go learn about soa crags
you know, okay, that kind of thing. It's funny.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
So you got a book recommendation from this episode Cultish,
and you got a movie recommendation from this episode. And
then you also should just try to be open minded
because when you're open minded, you don't have to be
right all the time.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
Just a relief, that's what it is.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yeah, you just want to be understood and you want
everyone to feel understood, and then you have more space
for understands. Understood this under all the understandings everywhere.
Speaker 4 (22:44):
Just love everybody.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Yeah, but also have passion and care, but then don't
care to where you end up doubling down so hard
where you're like, wait, does I go what I'm saying?
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Do you care?
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Where did I hear this? I heard something? Oh, it's
gonna bother me? Where it came from? Where somebody said. Honestly,
I think it was Lisa vander Pomp, but she said
would you rather be right? Or woud you rather be happy?
That has been sitting with me the last week. Would
you rather be right? Or do you rather be happy?
And sometimes we can change that. Would you rather be right?
Or would you rather be understood? Would you rather be right?
(23:16):
Or DoD you rather have peace? I think being right
gets in the way of so many things that actually
don't matter as much.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Yeah, I think. I mean, I just googled it. I
feel like it's a common thing.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
That so grad to say that too, so crad dude,
would you rather be right?
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Or would you rather be happy? I don't know. It's
a cute movie.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
You need to watch it and maybe even watch the remake.
I wish that that's how school was taught.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
As a comedy.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Yeah, as a comedy movie or a play or like
all the teachers would get together and be like, all right,
today we're learning about this, and they would all act
out in these characters and teach it in like.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
A fun way. That would have been very helpful for my brain.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
Yeah, well, you should have the option of what track
you want to go into, Like do you want to
go into like learn through comedy track or learn through
textbook track.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Maybe that's the future. Yeah, maybe they are.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
I mean it already has evolved in a way that
they don't teach everybody the same anymore like they used to. Yeah,
and in some place that there is still like a
blanket way of learning, but there are definitely more avenues
for like, Hey, if you happen to learn this way,
you can have more time to do this, or if
you need this read to you audibly, this might be
better because of the way your brain processes. And they
have those options, and that's great for my kids. I
(24:28):
wish I had that option because I know now with
stuff that I've learned about my brain, having stuff audibly
done would have been so beneficial for me, especially audibly
with actors on a screen doing fun things the history.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Yeah. So, Kat, where can people find you?
Speaker 3 (24:45):
On Instagram? At You Need Therapy Podcasts and at cat
dot Defauda.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
And I'm at Radio Amy and have the day you
need to have. Bye by
4 Things with Amy Brown News
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