October 31, 2020 • 30 mins
Alexis Barber of @Wellnesslexis is 21-year-old Black content creator, and she’s decided that both she and you are too smart to diet. Coming from a low income family, her “smarts” unlocked scholarships to go to elite private schools and earn an Ivy League degree. Being “smart” became her identity, and when she couldn’t “master her weight” she turned to dieting. But at age 21, amidst a pandemic, she had had enough, realizing she is enough-- and that she’s actually TOO smart to diet.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Maybe that's Lisa, and we're just two girls that want
to have a conversation with you. Dear sixteen year old
Andrea hey gorsgeous, Dear younger Lauren. Each episode is stories
from people I would deprive myself. Why myself obsessively? Because
I was eating healthy? I couldn't understand that I had
a problem with food. Losing my period scared me the most.
My story starts when I was around seven. That's when
(00:24):
I started to hate my body. Body image is like
our inner picture of our outer self healthy behaviors. I
had a much bigger role at all health than the
actual number on the scales. Internal dialogue can be so
powerful and often it's super negative and critical in a
way that we wouldn't talk to other people that we
care about. When you start to share your story, that
(00:44):
gives other people the courage to share theirs. I know
you would be proud now of how far you have
come in your relationship to food, exercise, and to yourself.
I felt freedom, I've gained relationships. I've found my true
sense of self worth. There's one thing I need you
to take away. You're going to be okay, Welcome to
(01:05):
an episode of that way. Today you're getting me and Amy. Hi, Amy, Hey,
good to be back today. We're joined with Alexis. You
can find her on Instagram at wellness Alexis. And Alexis
is a black content creator who is twenty one years
old and recently stopped dieting. And I'm excited to have
Alexis on because I feel like not many people stop
(01:28):
dieting at twenty one years old. Oftentimes people start dieting
at twenty one. But to have already been through a
cycle and publicly make a hard stop for reasons that
will learn, I think is just really fascinating. So Alexis,
can you tell us a little bit about when it
started for you and why? Of course, Well, first of all,
(01:48):
thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate
being able to talk to you. So my diet cycle
started in about a year and a half ago in
my sorority house while I was living there in college,
where a lot of women were of course dieting, you know,
had various like eating disordered eating patterns, like when you
(02:09):
have fifty girls all living in a house together, as
anyone can say that it's a little difficult to be there.
But I hadn't really been exposed to a diet culture
before that, so when people were doing this very popular
F factor diet, mystrity was largely girls from New York
City and the outlying suburbs, so it had sort of
taken that culture to the Midwest, and I decided to
(02:32):
learn a little bit more about the diet and then
ultimately tried it for myself while I was alone in quarantine,
and it led to some pretty disordered eating thoughts and
patterns for me. So over the summer, when a lot
of first racial justice issues started returning to the forefront,
and second a lot of people started talking about their
(02:53):
experience with this diet being negative, I sort of felt
a little bit more empowered to end my law term
relationship with this diet and move out of caring about
what I ate and try and channel that energy into
becoming a better person and advocating for issues that really
mattered to me. I like that you're bringing that up,
because for me, when I was able to let go
(03:15):
of whatever it is I was doing, and I've been
at it way longer, my dieting started probably I don't
remember the exact age, but somewhere around twelve thirteen and
then I'm almost forty and I'm feeling I'm just now
getting a handle on it. But the brain space that
is freed up, and then the energy you have to
focus on things that are way more important than how
(03:39):
many calories were just in that half of a role
that you ate and trying to enter it into my
fitness palate or whatever you're using. I think of all
the time I wasted doing that. So for you to
have that at such a time where yes, your brain
space and the capacity you have for all the change
you can make with your voice then is now free
to do the stuff that's important. Absolutely, And I think
(04:01):
that's what's most freeing about it. Is like in these
last like two years of college, I was really just
obsessed with a few things, like with being the smartest
and best and prettiest and coolest. Like I think that's
an underlying thing in the culture I was in a
Northwestern It's like you can't be trying too hard, but
you have to be everything and everyone else is everything too,
(04:24):
and everyone would like come downstairs to eat to prove
that they didn't care what they looked like, but they
still had like these perfect or quote perfect like society
standard bodies. So I was really mentally confused and a
little obsessed with it because I was like, what I
don't understand, Like why we're all acting like this is
(04:44):
so easy when it's really just not. I think that
the diet itself doesn't even matter other than the fact
that it provided structure, And it's similar to many other
diets out there, like Amy was doing macro counting kind
of recently, and for me that kind of like feel
like the same type of diet because they're telling you
that you can eat and you should be eating, but
(05:06):
they have all these rules as to what how much
and all that stuff. So for you though, was it
for health or was it for body control or both?
So I think it comes down to a few things.
So I have MS, so like health has always been
on my mind since I was diagnosed and fifteen. That's
one part of it. The other part is like being
(05:27):
a size six and a size four world, I wanted
to sort of feel more comfortable going out. I still
have a lot of privilege in the way my body looks,
but like at that time, that's sort of what I'm
searching for. And the third, and I think the most
important part that I don't think I recognized until afterwards,
is that my whole life. I've come from a low
income family, and I was lucky enough to get scholarships
(05:50):
to private schools for my entire education. I had a
really great high school and college education. And for me,
that also meant parting and having all these issues with
my identity as a mixed person and being black in
a very white world. Because private schools are largely you're
going to be the only black person there. So for
me it was also a transition and I want and
(06:14):
a need for not only to be accepted by white people,
but also to have the access to financial mobility that
I had so desperately wanted for my entire life. And
even though when I started a Factor, I had the
big job, the big name schools, everything that you could
like want on paper, it didn't matter because I wasn't
(06:37):
thin and I therefore I didn't feel like I was
going to be accepted by this like rich white environment
that I felt like I needed to be in in
order to get the money and financial security to provide
for like my family. Super fascinating to hear that were
you one of the only few black people in Northwestern
or in at your private schools, at my private schools. Yeah,
(07:00):
I went to a boarding school outside of St. Louis
which was largely white and Asian, and I went there
for six years and I was one of Like there
was never more than three black people at the school
at a time, so that was different. I think the
Asian community has its own diet culture issues, but it
didn't affect me too much until I got to college
and was in a white sorority. So there was a
(07:22):
lot of black people in Northwestern, but in my experience,
it wasn't a very united black community. Northwestern doesn't do
rush until January, so my first quarter I had black friends.
My boyfriend is black and he has a great network
of black friends as well. But I didn't find my group.
So that's why I decided to go through recruitment. And
(07:42):
there was a lot of like you know, racial issues
like playing out at that time that we don't need
to get into. But I still upon joining the group,
it was like top two yer sorority. Megan Markle was
in it. Like I did feel a sense of acceptance
in that one and I was like okay, like I
can do this, Like I've I'm doing it all. I'm
getting another name, I'm getting another accolade, of getting another
(08:05):
like signal that I'm being accepted by these people. Therefore
I will be able to become one of them at
some point, Which was just like I was just emulating
that instead of really like trying to be myself, you know,
embracing my actual like upbringing. So I felt like that
was why I decided to go ahead and do that.
So I just realized side notes, we might be so,
(08:27):
but look look at you guys, night blue, dark blue. Yeah,
so yeah, I would say that for you since it
came through your experience, I think that's where you were
introduced to this particular diet. What was that like, I
don't know again, and this might be too personally your
(08:49):
home life like or or anybody that wasn't in that world.
What was it like? Did they see you making changes
or that transition. What were those conversations like? Because any
time I was trying something new, I was bringing it
into my family and my home and they just weren't.
They didn't get it. I mean they tolerated it, but
it disrupted things because I wouldn't eat the meals my
(09:10):
dad would cook and it was sad because I would
prepare my own food and bring it or I just
wouldn't eat. And so how did it affect your home
life for any relationships you had not in the world
you were currently in. So I think, if there's like
two other worlds that I was living in, and one
was with my like non Greek life friends at Northwestern,
and the other was with my family when I would
(09:31):
come home and family when I would come home, Like
I said, we're low income family, lots of help is used.
There's lots of obesity in my family. So I was
definitely afraid. Isn't there six kids? Eight kids? I have
seven siblings, Okay, So I just thought that was important
to mention and I was off by two kids. Yes,
that's the thing is that's why food never really was
like something I feared. Was because like we just had
(09:54):
to get fed, you know, like it was a lot
of kids and had to figure it out. Like it
was like if we're going to get Donald's night, it
is not because we're like stupid and we don't know
what to eat. It's because there's eight of us, it's
a thirty PM, and we need to go to bed,
so we go to school tomorrow. My mom has always
been a huge advocate of education. She's just like getting
her PhD right now. She's very intelligent. We just had
(10:16):
a lot of bad luck when it came to money
over the last ever since the housing crisis. So since then,
like food and my family hadn't been like a big
fear of mine. So when I came home, I would
just eat what everyone else ate because like I knew that,
like there wasn't a reason for me to sit here
and be like, oh well, we need to do something different,
like because it wasn't It's not feasible for my thirty
(10:39):
like seven year old mom of eight to make everybody
like perfect meals all the time. She does a really
good job with what she has, and that's what matters
to me. So at home, it didn't really affect it
in my friends outside of Greek life at Northwestern, including
like my boyfriend and I have two really close guy friends.
One of them and had a girlfriend with a really
bad eating disorder and had taken over his life for
(11:01):
over a year. So after he got out of that relationship,
he would notice my disordered eating patterns and he would
say things about it, and I would be like, you
don't know what you're talking about. You don't know what
it's like to be a girl. You don't know what
it's like to do this. Like you say this, but
then you only like talk to scanny girls anyway, so
like basically shut up, like you don't understand. And we
also had another third friend who would he wouldn't say things,
(11:24):
but he would notice and like make off hand comments.
But guys are not like confrontational ones to sit down
with you when they noticed you're having these issues. And
I always tried to come across as very put together,
so I didn't really let anyone see when I was
struggling with it or made comments about like my own body,
you know. So it came out in those two ways.
(11:44):
But at home, like I said, not really a big issue,
but some of my close friends could notice when things
were wrong. My boyfriend always tried to be supportive, but
he's he's great, He tried his best. Yeah, there's so
much kind of happening from you know, an MS diagnosis
where you start focusing on health at fifteen to going
to college and you describe yourself as always being like smart,
(12:07):
that was your identity. How did that translate into your
type a personality that does you know, only gets a's
how did that translate into doing a diet. So the
smart identity had been there for a long time, and
I think I held onto it for a while because
I didn't have money in high school. For reference, it
(12:28):
was like billionaires at my high school. Like it was
like people were carrying Birkins the class at fifteen. So
for me, that's why money became such a big fear
for me, It's because I was like at the other
end of the spectrum. So that's why I held onto
being intelligent and getting into a really good college, and
in college, getting a really good job, getting the best internships,
(12:48):
getting into doing like these leadership positions. So when I
had all of that, when I didn't have anything else
to focus on because I had a job postgrad and
I was graduating from Northwest Stern and I had a boyfriend.
The story, all my leadership positions had finished, I was done.
That's when dieting took over because it was like, this
(13:09):
is something that I haven't mastered. I've tried to focus
on for the last four years to look a certain way,
and I haven't been able to do it. So since
I have everything else, this is the one thing I
need to master in order to be the person that
I want to be. And that person, however, wasn't really
what I wanted to be. It's what I thought people
(13:29):
needed me to be, or it's what I thought society
wanted me to be so that I could be accepted
by everyone. Turned out that's never gonna happen. So who
really cares if I eat pasta or not, you know.
So that's sort of how it tied it into each other.
And I think like there's some structure to it as well.
That college for me was like a very confusing time
(13:50):
but also the time that I took control of my
food because nobody was watching, and I could also wake
up at whatever time I want and you know, eat
lunch maybe never, but goes along as I wanted to.
So I think was there some element of structure that
kind of spoke to for sure, Like I said, my
mom and family, like as much as I love them,
did not know anything about nutrition or calories or macros
(14:12):
or literally anything. So I didn't really feel as though
I was had a good like foundational understanding of food
outside of like basic meals. So when I was in college,
I like ate at the dining hall, ate in my
sorority house. Even when I didn't live in the house,
I still ate there because the food was immaculate to
(14:32):
we had a great chef, and I was always there eating.
So when I didn't have a sorority house anymore and
I was cooking for myself for like probably the second
time in my life, I had one summer where I
had to cook for myself and my boyfriend basically did
it all because he's a star and very good at cooking.
So in the pandemic hit was like, all right, you're
(14:53):
cooking for yourself. Now there's no there's no capa house
to go eat at. That's when I was like, all right, well,
this is a structure I can get behind. I could
go on this. So when we were doing our panic shopping,
that's all the stuff I thought, I was like, I
can adhere to this structure. It's perfect. I can't. I
won't have to leave the house. I can do it.
And that is definitely true. And I think it's been
(15:13):
hard when you come out of that to know if
your structure is a diet structure that you're just like
re engineering and saying you like because it's the only
thing you've ever done, or if you actually like the
foods that you are cooking for yourself. So that's why
it's been nice for me. Like luckily I have good
enough insurance where I can meet with a dietitian, so
(15:34):
that's been really helpful for me. But adding structure to
food still feels very scary for me because of how
to the extreme that I took it just a spew
with like a few months ago. That's an interesting point
I hadn't thought of even amy to think about, like
all the people. We started out way this podcast right
before the pandemic hit. Yeah, well we recorded it in March,
(15:56):
it went live in April. Throughout the entire month we
were leasing an episode and almost to where at times
I felt sort of tone deaf to what was happening,
but we knew, okay, well, this is fitting a specific
need and actually maybe some of these stories will be
helpful for people to hear during this time because they
have the time to listen. Old habits might be rearing
(16:16):
their heads, so maybe this will be helpful. But it
was a really weird time for us to release it,
but also kind of perfect and now we're going to
have a whole new group of people that needed even
more who kind of got on like an expedited disordered
eating or eating disordered train, because so many people lost
elements of control when the pandemic hit and therefore gravitated
(16:37):
towards the one thing they could control, or that feels
like control, I should say, it's never actually control. It's
the illusion of control that keeps us captive. And that's
something that we just need to kind of be on
the lookout, because I think very few people kind of
woke up in June like Alexis and said, this isn't
a normal thing that I'm doing, and I want to
fix it. What I think is really interesting about the
(17:00):
diet that you were on, and I think this can
extend again to any diet, is that this diet has
a book, and there was a way to follow the
founder on social media and see what she was doing.
And so you read the book like front and back right,
every single page, took notes, knew it. Yes, of course
I had read it actually the summer before, because I
(17:21):
was introduced to it in February nineteen and then I
had the powders and but I was living in sorority house,
so I couldn't control my food. And then the summer,
I was working at a place where they gave you
three meals a day, so I didn't do it then,
but I was reading the book at the time and
trying to implement the principles. But it's like it was
my first summer in New York City, so I wasn't
going to try it. Then back to the sorority house.
(17:43):
So then I came to in in March. That's when
I was really I've been following, following the whole the
founder the whole time. I've been, you know, seeing what
she did every single day, and that's when I started
to sort of implement it. Because I didn't follow her
for a year, I knew how she lived. So the
third third element I want to mention is that this
founder happens to be a registered dietitian. So you were
(18:03):
following a credible quote, you know, health professional, You read
the actual book, and you followed her online. Somebody who
I've learned now because I've never followed her, lives it
day in and day out. And apparently what I've learned
from you and everybody is that you followed what she
did and it was different from the book. So I
(18:24):
guess my question to kind of keep it relevant to
all diets and all people that are health professionals or not.
What have you learned about getting health information from anybody
online and following what somebody else does, whether they're a
dietitian or not. So I don't blame myself for any
(18:44):
young woman or any woman for that matter, for following
what this woman did on social media because it was
perfectly marketed. I'm a marketer by day, and I know
how to do this, and she did it perfectly, But
doesn't mean that she didn't damage a few people in
the process and that marketing was exceptional. If I have
(19:06):
a perfect, exceptional, glamorous life and by eating this way,
it demonstrates who I am and the rest of my life,
this is how I do it every single day. You
can do this and have what I have. And when
you're a young ambitious woman in college and the diet
says you can drink on it, that doesn't seem like
there's anything more perfect. You really feel empowered by the
(19:27):
fact that you could lose weight in college while also
maintaining a social life and also chasing after a glamorous
life too. I was under that spell obviously, but I
do think there is a specific like choice to do
that and to get these young college age women invested
in this diet, and that, like marketing choice, I think,
(19:50):
exploits these women who are really, really vulnerable. And like
I said, you have to be finn to be valuable,
and she was pushed ing into that by telling us, like,
you have to be thin to be valuable, and here's
how I'm going to show you how to do it,
and that was really hard. What I've learned about taking
diet advice from people on social media is that obviously
(20:11):
have to do your own research whatever like, but just like,
follow people who make you feel good instead of people
who make you feel guilty, and that's what matters to me.
I mean, I love getting tips and advice and fun
recipes from people online. So I'm not going to say
nobody should ever have nutrition advice online. I think that's horrible.
I didn't have access to nutrition education for much of
(20:34):
my life, and I don't think I would have learned
anything that I learned if not for Instagram. But everyone
has to have this realization that dieting calorie counting, etcetera.
Is not the way to live for themselves. Like you
can't just tell somebody like, oh, your weight doesn't matter,
Like no one is ever going to believe that because
of like the constraints that we live in. When my
(20:55):
friends are telling me that, I felt like they just
didn't understand the world I was living in. So unfortunately,
I think like having this advice on social media can
exacerbate a lot of issues, especially at a time when
we're locked inside. But it also is a lot of
good and a lot of educational opportunities and a lot
of opportunities for community, and that's what matters most to me.
(21:15):
But like I said, it's a journey every person has
to go through on their own. And I also don't
blame anyone who's going through this need to diet and
want to lose weight, because that's the way this society
is set up, unfortunately, and hopefully everyone can get out
of that diet culture and I hope it can be abolished.
It's not something to blame yourself for. I think that's
(21:35):
one of our goals here with the podcast, is to
strip away that skinny equals success and skinny equals this
perfect life that you've always wanted and on your Instagram
bio you have you're too smart to be on a diet.
What is your online presence goal. I've only had this
amount of followers for a month now, and it's been
(21:58):
a little overwhelming because this is like my little like
wellness account that I just like had like two hundred followers,
and I just like had there because I wanted to
quote pool myself accountable whatever I felt like, to be
honest with you, talking about dieting and wellness online is
extremely privileged and kind of tone deaf in a time
when this world is so messed up. When people found
(22:21):
out that I had this account, I was really scared
because I've I studied political science in college, Like I'm
from St. Louis, where the birth of the Black Lives
Matter movement was, and I feel very called to focus
on social justice and racial equity. While it's not like
the center of my job right now, like I'm not
lucky enough to be able to work in a nonprofit
or on a campaign or something like that, I do
(22:42):
work at a company where there's a lot of influence,
so hopefully I can make a change in racial equity
there but when this account sort of came out, I
had to figure out if that was in line with
what I feel my life's purpose is, which is stuff
lift black women, and that I'm still figuring it out,
but I do think that my day to day attempt
(23:05):
to be vulnerable in my diet culture exodus is hopefully
what helps people. But more so, I hope that bringing
awareness to a lot of the disparities with food and
race will be what my account can really help the
world with. For example, eating disorders and black teens or
(23:26):
their black teams are fifty more likely to exhibit eating
disorder symptoms, but way less likely to be treated or
diagnosed for them, And that is a big problem, and
it makes sense, it's a it's a horrible problem. So
that's one thing I want to bring awareness to. The
Other is just the way food and race are so
deeply intertwined, and no one wants to talk about that.
(23:47):
So that's one thing I also want to do. Most
of my following is white women, so I really do
hope that by following me they can learn something about
race right now, yeah right now, learn something about race,
but also learn something about how they don't need to
apologize for what they look like. I've learned so much
from your account and I really look forward to going
(24:08):
there because you're so thoughtful with your content and really
aligned clearly to Like how you just described what you
want to do is exactly what you do. I mean,
every piece of content that you put up has an
element of whatever the opposite of tone deaf is, and
you also present it in a way that makes people listen.
(24:28):
If you choose to run for office, you got my vote,
that's for sure. Like, that's why I really wanted to
have you on. It's very clear that you're going to
do really big things for the world. I have a
hunch that Wellness Alexis will become Alexis Barber. And just
for for some context, Amy, the reason Alexis got all
the quote unquote followers was because the founder of the
(24:49):
diet that she was on called her because she spoke
up about what happened, and while the conversation was a
private conversation between the two of them, the founder went
on her Instagram live with over a hundred thousand followers
and told the story of their conversation, mentioning Alexis name
and therefore, all of a sudden Alexis phone like blew
(25:10):
up with followers on my first day of work. Yeah,
and she also very much like manipulated the story and said,
you know, no girl should follow what I do on
social media. Meanwhile, this is what she was doing. So
it was an explosion to figure out what to do
with all these followers. And yet you didn't miss a
beat in using the time very wisely to show up.
(25:31):
Thank you. I appreciate it. And just before we wrapped,
to encourage people to go to your page and follow,
because I do think you're going to make an amazing
impact on so many people from all different walks of life.
But there was a post you put up talking about
a trip to the beach with some friends. I encourage
people to go check out the whole post, but you
were talking about being in a swimsuit on the beach
(25:54):
or bikini with friends, and you said, if I found
myself judging someone or myself, I am need at least
switched the thought to one of kindness, From initially judging
what someone else looked like on the beach to a
radical compliment, what is that swimsuit too? Okay, girl, I
see you killing it in that plaid look. And for myself,
(26:16):
switching from my roles are really gross to who cares
about these roles that are protecting my body? I am
enjoying life. I just want to make sure people know
the kind of content they're going to get from you. Yes,
is to second what Lisa said, it's very thoughtful and
I am also encouraged by your posts. So yeah, keep
doing what you're doing, and we look forward to checking
(26:38):
in with you again later when because I know there's
more to come. When you said to look at who
you're following, how does it make you feel? What kind
of person are you becoming? After you look at somebody's posts,
and honestly sometimes too, and you can back me up
on this, doesn't mean they're a bad person. It just
means it's maybe not a good follow for you. There's
(26:58):
a difference between education and fearmongering, and it's an important
distinction for somebody to empower their audience to try this recipe,
try this new grain, try this new let's even make
it like you know, eat this recipe, look like me,
try this potion, look like me. And I think everybody
just needs to kind of be on the lookout for
(27:20):
those little seeds of am I eating this to be
more like that person, or am I eating this or
trying this to be the best version of me? And
everything we do in health and wellness, the true reason
brought down is it should bring out the best versions
of us, not the stripped versions of us that we
can't even recognize exactly. I think it beforehand, I, like
(27:42):
I said, I was trying to be this version of
perfection that society wanted out of me in both my
you know, external accolades and also my external appearance. But
now it's like, even in my job and in my
my everything that I'm trying to do, it's trying to
be the best for and the person who I want
to be. I don't think that I knew that I
(28:04):
could be anything other than what the world was telling me.
I had to and until I recognized that it was
all really up to me and it was all really
in my hands and I had I think that comes
with a lot of privilege. I will say, like, I
couldn't be doing anything I'm doing if I didn't have
stable income and a job and you know, as a
supportive parents and friends. But most importantly, like once you
(28:28):
recognize that this is all for bettering you and it's
okay to feel good instead of restricted. Then I think
the world will become a little bit more hopeful for you. Yeah,
you'll be that reminder to so many girls. You're only
twenty one years old. You have such an amazing life ahead,
but to know focusing on what's really important. I think
(28:48):
of how I spent my twenties and it was certainly
not where you are and even the damage. I mean,
I've been on air as a people have been hearing
my voice for fifteen years, and they're there's so much
that I wish I could go back and a race,
because I was a contributing voice to a lot of
what now I would never say. And I think that's
(29:09):
because to what following people like you and Lisa and
what we can do for each other. There's a level
of accountability to It's easy to slip into certain things
and maybe not even realize it, but to have thoughtful,
smart people that are well with you, I feel like
light years ahead of where I was. I wish at
twenty one I had someone like you and like Lisa.
(29:30):
So I just know to so many women and even
men like you're you're an inspiration. You are thanks for
coming on, and of course thank you again for having me.
I really I loved this conversation and it's at wellness
Alexis for now, for now. Yeah, I've been trying to
figure out I checause we'll see we all grow, and
we as we grow, we take off the layers and
(29:52):
wherever you go will follow. So whatever that turns to,
we're here for Thank you,
Maybe that's Lisa, and we're just two girls that want
to have a conversation with you. Dear sixteen year old
Andrea hey gorsgeous, Dear younger Lauren. Each episode is stories
from people I would deprive myself. Why myself obsessively? Because
I was eating healthy? I couldn't understand that I had
a problem with food. Losing my period scared me the most.
My story starts when I was around seven. That's when
(00:24):
I started to hate my body. Body image is like
our inner picture of our outer self healthy behaviors. I
had a much bigger role at all health than the
actual number on the scales. Internal dialogue can be so
powerful and often it's super negative and critical in a
way that we wouldn't talk to other people that we
care about. When you start to share your story, that
(00:44):
gives other people the courage to share theirs. I know
you would be proud now of how far you have
come in your relationship to food, exercise, and to yourself.
I felt freedom, I've gained relationships. I've found my true
sense of self worth. There's one thing I need you
to take away. You're going to be okay, Welcome to
(01:05):
an episode of that way. Today you're getting me and Amy. Hi, Amy, Hey,
good to be back today. We're joined with Alexis. You
can find her on Instagram at wellness Alexis. And Alexis
is a black content creator who is twenty one years
old and recently stopped dieting. And I'm excited to have
Alexis on because I feel like not many people stop
(01:28):
dieting at twenty one years old. Oftentimes people start dieting
at twenty one. But to have already been through a
cycle and publicly make a hard stop for reasons that
will learn, I think is just really fascinating. So Alexis,
can you tell us a little bit about when it
started for you and why? Of course, Well, first of all,
(01:48):
thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate
being able to talk to you. So my diet cycle
started in about a year and a half ago in
my sorority house while I was living there in college,
where a lot of women were of course dieting, you know,
had various like eating disordered eating patterns, like when you
(02:09):
have fifty girls all living in a house together, as
anyone can say that it's a little difficult to be there.
But I hadn't really been exposed to a diet culture
before that, so when people were doing this very popular
F factor diet, mystrity was largely girls from New York
City and the outlying suburbs, so it had sort of
taken that culture to the Midwest, and I decided to
(02:32):
learn a little bit more about the diet and then
ultimately tried it for myself while I was alone in quarantine,
and it led to some pretty disordered eating thoughts and
patterns for me. So over the summer, when a lot
of first racial justice issues started returning to the forefront,
and second a lot of people started talking about their
(02:53):
experience with this diet being negative, I sort of felt
a little bit more empowered to end my law term
relationship with this diet and move out of caring about
what I ate and try and channel that energy into
becoming a better person and advocating for issues that really
mattered to me. I like that you're bringing that up,
because for me, when I was able to let go
(03:15):
of whatever it is I was doing, and I've been
at it way longer, my dieting started probably I don't
remember the exact age, but somewhere around twelve thirteen and
then I'm almost forty and I'm feeling I'm just now
getting a handle on it. But the brain space that
is freed up, and then the energy you have to
focus on things that are way more important than how
(03:39):
many calories were just in that half of a role
that you ate and trying to enter it into my
fitness palate or whatever you're using. I think of all
the time I wasted doing that. So for you to
have that at such a time where yes, your brain
space and the capacity you have for all the change
you can make with your voice then is now free
to do the stuff that's important. Absolutely, And I think
(04:01):
that's what's most freeing about it. Is like in these
last like two years of college, I was really just
obsessed with a few things, like with being the smartest
and best and prettiest and coolest. Like I think that's
an underlying thing in the culture I was in a
Northwestern It's like you can't be trying too hard, but
you have to be everything and everyone else is everything too,
(04:24):
and everyone would like come downstairs to eat to prove
that they didn't care what they looked like, but they
still had like these perfect or quote perfect like society
standard bodies. So I was really mentally confused and a
little obsessed with it because I was like, what I
don't understand, Like why we're all acting like this is
(04:44):
so easy when it's really just not. I think that
the diet itself doesn't even matter other than the fact
that it provided structure, And it's similar to many other
diets out there, like Amy was doing macro counting kind
of recently, and for me that kind of like feel
like the same type of diet because they're telling you
that you can eat and you should be eating, but
(05:06):
they have all these rules as to what how much
and all that stuff. So for you though, was it
for health or was it for body control or both?
So I think it comes down to a few things.
So I have MS, so like health has always been
on my mind since I was diagnosed and fifteen. That's
one part of it. The other part is like being
(05:27):
a size six and a size four world, I wanted
to sort of feel more comfortable going out. I still
have a lot of privilege in the way my body looks,
but like at that time, that's sort of what I'm
searching for. And the third, and I think the most
important part that I don't think I recognized until afterwards,
is that my whole life. I've come from a low
income family, and I was lucky enough to get scholarships
(05:50):
to private schools for my entire education. I had a
really great high school and college education. And for me,
that also meant parting and having all these issues with
my identity as a mixed person and being black in
a very white world. Because private schools are largely you're
going to be the only black person there. So for
me it was also a transition and I want and
(06:14):
a need for not only to be accepted by white people,
but also to have the access to financial mobility that
I had so desperately wanted for my entire life. And
even though when I started a Factor, I had the
big job, the big name schools, everything that you could
like want on paper, it didn't matter because I wasn't
(06:37):
thin and I therefore I didn't feel like I was
going to be accepted by this like rich white environment
that I felt like I needed to be in in
order to get the money and financial security to provide
for like my family. Super fascinating to hear that were
you one of the only few black people in Northwestern
or in at your private schools, at my private schools. Yeah,
(07:00):
I went to a boarding school outside of St. Louis
which was largely white and Asian, and I went there
for six years and I was one of Like there
was never more than three black people at the school
at a time, so that was different. I think the
Asian community has its own diet culture issues, but it
didn't affect me too much until I got to college
and was in a white sorority. So there was a
(07:22):
lot of black people in Northwestern, but in my experience,
it wasn't a very united black community. Northwestern doesn't do
rush until January, so my first quarter I had black friends.
My boyfriend is black and he has a great network
of black friends as well. But I didn't find my group.
So that's why I decided to go through recruitment. And
(07:42):
there was a lot of like you know, racial issues
like playing out at that time that we don't need
to get into. But I still upon joining the group,
it was like top two yer sorority. Megan Markle was
in it. Like I did feel a sense of acceptance
in that one and I was like okay, like I
can do this, Like I've I'm doing it all. I'm
getting another name, I'm getting another accolade, of getting another
(08:05):
like signal that I'm being accepted by these people. Therefore
I will be able to become one of them at
some point, Which was just like I was just emulating
that instead of really like trying to be myself, you know,
embracing my actual like upbringing. So I felt like that
was why I decided to go ahead and do that.
So I just realized side notes, we might be so,
(08:27):
but look look at you guys, night blue, dark blue. Yeah,
so yeah, I would say that for you since it
came through your experience, I think that's where you were
introduced to this particular diet. What was that like, I
don't know again, and this might be too personally your
(08:49):
home life like or or anybody that wasn't in that world.
What was it like? Did they see you making changes
or that transition. What were those conversations like? Because any
time I was trying something new, I was bringing it
into my family and my home and they just weren't.
They didn't get it. I mean they tolerated it, but
it disrupted things because I wouldn't eat the meals my
(09:10):
dad would cook and it was sad because I would
prepare my own food and bring it or I just
wouldn't eat. And so how did it affect your home
life for any relationships you had not in the world
you were currently in. So I think, if there's like
two other worlds that I was living in, and one
was with my like non Greek life friends at Northwestern,
and the other was with my family when I would
(09:31):
come home and family when I would come home, Like
I said, we're low income family, lots of help is used.
There's lots of obesity in my family. So I was
definitely afraid. Isn't there six kids? Eight kids? I have
seven siblings, Okay, So I just thought that was important
to mention and I was off by two kids. Yes,
that's the thing is that's why food never really was
like something I feared. Was because like we just had
(09:54):
to get fed, you know, like it was a lot
of kids and had to figure it out. Like it
was like if we're going to get Donald's night, it
is not because we're like stupid and we don't know
what to eat. It's because there's eight of us, it's
a thirty PM, and we need to go to bed,
so we go to school tomorrow. My mom has always
been a huge advocate of education. She's just like getting
her PhD right now. She's very intelligent. We just had
(10:16):
a lot of bad luck when it came to money
over the last ever since the housing crisis. So since then,
like food and my family hadn't been like a big
fear of mine. So when I came home, I would
just eat what everyone else ate because like I knew that,
like there wasn't a reason for me to sit here
and be like, oh well, we need to do something different,
like because it wasn't It's not feasible for my thirty
(10:39):
like seven year old mom of eight to make everybody
like perfect meals all the time. She does a really
good job with what she has, and that's what matters
to me. So at home, it didn't really affect it
in my friends outside of Greek life at Northwestern, including
like my boyfriend and I have two really close guy friends.
One of them and had a girlfriend with a really
bad eating disorder and had taken over his life for
(11:01):
over a year. So after he got out of that relationship,
he would notice my disordered eating patterns and he would
say things about it, and I would be like, you
don't know what you're talking about. You don't know what
it's like to be a girl. You don't know what
it's like to do this. Like you say this, but
then you only like talk to scanny girls anyway, so
like basically shut up, like you don't understand. And we
also had another third friend who would he wouldn't say things,
(11:24):
but he would notice and like make off hand comments.
But guys are not like confrontational ones to sit down
with you when they noticed you're having these issues. And
I always tried to come across as very put together,
so I didn't really let anyone see when I was
struggling with it or made comments about like my own body,
you know. So it came out in those two ways.
(11:44):
But at home, like I said, not really a big issue,
but some of my close friends could notice when things
were wrong. My boyfriend always tried to be supportive, but
he's he's great, He tried his best. Yeah, there's so
much kind of happening from you know, an MS diagnosis
where you start focusing on health at fifteen to going
to college and you describe yourself as always being like smart,
(12:07):
that was your identity. How did that translate into your
type a personality that does you know, only gets a's
how did that translate into doing a diet. So the
smart identity had been there for a long time, and
I think I held onto it for a while because
I didn't have money in high school. For reference, it
(12:28):
was like billionaires at my high school. Like it was
like people were carrying Birkins the class at fifteen. So
for me, that's why money became such a big fear
for me, It's because I was like at the other
end of the spectrum. So that's why I held onto
being intelligent and getting into a really good college, and
in college, getting a really good job, getting the best internships,
(12:48):
getting into doing like these leadership positions. So when I
had all of that, when I didn't have anything else
to focus on because I had a job postgrad and
I was graduating from Northwest Stern and I had a boyfriend.
The story, all my leadership positions had finished, I was done.
That's when dieting took over because it was like, this
(13:09):
is something that I haven't mastered. I've tried to focus
on for the last four years to look a certain way,
and I haven't been able to do it. So since
I have everything else, this is the one thing I
need to master in order to be the person that
I want to be. And that person, however, wasn't really
what I wanted to be. It's what I thought people
(13:29):
needed me to be, or it's what I thought society
wanted me to be so that I could be accepted
by everyone. Turned out that's never gonna happen. So who
really cares if I eat pasta or not, you know.
So that's sort of how it tied it into each other.
And I think like there's some structure to it as well.
That college for me was like a very confusing time
(13:50):
but also the time that I took control of my
food because nobody was watching, and I could also wake
up at whatever time I want and you know, eat
lunch maybe never, but goes along as I wanted to.
So I think was there some element of structure that
kind of spoke to for sure, Like I said, my
mom and family, like as much as I love them,
did not know anything about nutrition or calories or macros
(14:12):
or literally anything. So I didn't really feel as though
I was had a good like foundational understanding of food
outside of like basic meals. So when I was in college,
I like ate at the dining hall, ate in my
sorority house. Even when I didn't live in the house,
I still ate there because the food was immaculate to
(14:32):
we had a great chef, and I was always there eating.
So when I didn't have a sorority house anymore and
I was cooking for myself for like probably the second
time in my life, I had one summer where I
had to cook for myself and my boyfriend basically did
it all because he's a star and very good at cooking.
So in the pandemic hit was like, all right, you're
(14:53):
cooking for yourself. Now there's no there's no capa house
to go eat at. That's when I was like, all right, well,
this is a structure I can get behind. I could
go on this. So when we were doing our panic shopping,
that's all the stuff I thought, I was like, I
can adhere to this structure. It's perfect. I can't. I
won't have to leave the house. I can do it.
And that is definitely true. And I think it's been
(15:13):
hard when you come out of that to know if
your structure is a diet structure that you're just like
re engineering and saying you like because it's the only
thing you've ever done, or if you actually like the
foods that you are cooking for yourself. So that's why
it's been nice for me. Like luckily I have good
enough insurance where I can meet with a dietitian, so
(15:34):
that's been really helpful for me. But adding structure to
food still feels very scary for me because of how
to the extreme that I took it just a spew
with like a few months ago. That's an interesting point
I hadn't thought of even amy to think about, like
all the people. We started out way this podcast right
before the pandemic hit. Yeah, well we recorded it in March,
(15:56):
it went live in April. Throughout the entire month we
were leasing an episode and almost to where at times
I felt sort of tone deaf to what was happening,
but we knew, okay, well, this is fitting a specific
need and actually maybe some of these stories will be
helpful for people to hear during this time because they
have the time to listen. Old habits might be rearing
(16:16):
their heads, so maybe this will be helpful. But it
was a really weird time for us to release it,
but also kind of perfect and now we're going to
have a whole new group of people that needed even
more who kind of got on like an expedited disordered
eating or eating disordered train, because so many people lost
elements of control when the pandemic hit and therefore gravitated
(16:37):
towards the one thing they could control, or that feels
like control, I should say, it's never actually control. It's
the illusion of control that keeps us captive. And that's
something that we just need to kind of be on
the lookout, because I think very few people kind of
woke up in June like Alexis and said, this isn't
a normal thing that I'm doing, and I want to
fix it. What I think is really interesting about the
(17:00):
diet that you were on, and I think this can
extend again to any diet, is that this diet has
a book, and there was a way to follow the
founder on social media and see what she was doing.
And so you read the book like front and back right,
every single page, took notes, knew it. Yes, of course
I had read it actually the summer before, because I
(17:21):
was introduced to it in February nineteen and then I
had the powders and but I was living in sorority house,
so I couldn't control my food. And then the summer,
I was working at a place where they gave you
three meals a day, so I didn't do it then,
but I was reading the book at the time and
trying to implement the principles. But it's like it was
my first summer in New York City, so I wasn't
going to try it. Then back to the sorority house.
(17:43):
So then I came to in in March. That's when
I was really I've been following, following the whole the
founder the whole time. I've been, you know, seeing what
she did every single day, and that's when I started
to sort of implement it. Because I didn't follow her
for a year, I knew how she lived. So the
third third element I want to mention is that this
founder happens to be a registered dietitian. So you were
(18:03):
following a credible quote, you know, health professional, You read
the actual book, and you followed her online. Somebody who
I've learned now because I've never followed her, lives it
day in and day out. And apparently what I've learned
from you and everybody is that you followed what she
did and it was different from the book. So I
(18:24):
guess my question to kind of keep it relevant to
all diets and all people that are health professionals or not.
What have you learned about getting health information from anybody
online and following what somebody else does, whether they're a
dietitian or not. So I don't blame myself for any
(18:44):
young woman or any woman for that matter, for following
what this woman did on social media because it was
perfectly marketed. I'm a marketer by day, and I know
how to do this, and she did it perfectly, But
doesn't mean that she didn't damage a few people in
the process and that marketing was exceptional. If I have
(19:06):
a perfect, exceptional, glamorous life and by eating this way,
it demonstrates who I am and the rest of my life,
this is how I do it every single day. You
can do this and have what I have. And when
you're a young ambitious woman in college and the diet
says you can drink on it, that doesn't seem like
there's anything more perfect. You really feel empowered by the
(19:27):
fact that you could lose weight in college while also
maintaining a social life and also chasing after a glamorous
life too. I was under that spell obviously, but I
do think there is a specific like choice to do
that and to get these young college age women invested
in this diet, and that, like marketing choice, I think,
(19:50):
exploits these women who are really, really vulnerable. And like
I said, you have to be finn to be valuable,
and she was pushed ing into that by telling us, like,
you have to be thin to be valuable, and here's
how I'm going to show you how to do it,
and that was really hard. What I've learned about taking
diet advice from people on social media is that obviously
(20:11):
have to do your own research whatever like, but just like,
follow people who make you feel good instead of people
who make you feel guilty, and that's what matters to me.
I mean, I love getting tips and advice and fun
recipes from people online. So I'm not going to say
nobody should ever have nutrition advice online. I think that's horrible.
I didn't have access to nutrition education for much of
(20:34):
my life, and I don't think I would have learned
anything that I learned if not for Instagram. But everyone
has to have this realization that dieting calorie counting, etcetera.
Is not the way to live for themselves. Like you
can't just tell somebody like, oh, your weight doesn't matter,
Like no one is ever going to believe that because
of like the constraints that we live in. When my
(20:55):
friends are telling me that, I felt like they just
didn't understand the world I was living in. So unfortunately,
I think like having this advice on social media can
exacerbate a lot of issues, especially at a time when
we're locked inside. But it also is a lot of
good and a lot of educational opportunities and a lot
of opportunities for community, and that's what matters most to me.
(21:15):
But like I said, it's a journey every person has
to go through on their own. And I also don't
blame anyone who's going through this need to diet and
want to lose weight, because that's the way this society
is set up, unfortunately, and hopefully everyone can get out
of that diet culture and I hope it can be abolished.
It's not something to blame yourself for. I think that's
(21:35):
one of our goals here with the podcast, is to
strip away that skinny equals success and skinny equals this
perfect life that you've always wanted and on your Instagram
bio you have you're too smart to be on a diet.
What is your online presence goal. I've only had this
amount of followers for a month now, and it's been
(21:58):
a little overwhelming because this is like my little like
wellness account that I just like had like two hundred followers,
and I just like had there because I wanted to
quote pool myself accountable whatever I felt like, to be
honest with you, talking about dieting and wellness online is
extremely privileged and kind of tone deaf in a time
when this world is so messed up. When people found
(22:21):
out that I had this account, I was really scared
because I've I studied political science in college, Like I'm
from St. Louis, where the birth of the Black Lives
Matter movement was, and I feel very called to focus
on social justice and racial equity. While it's not like
the center of my job right now, like I'm not
lucky enough to be able to work in a nonprofit
or on a campaign or something like that, I do
(22:42):
work at a company where there's a lot of influence,
so hopefully I can make a change in racial equity
there but when this account sort of came out, I
had to figure out if that was in line with
what I feel my life's purpose is, which is stuff
lift black women, and that I'm still figuring it out,
but I do think that my day to day attempt
(23:05):
to be vulnerable in my diet culture exodus is hopefully
what helps people. But more so, I hope that bringing
awareness to a lot of the disparities with food and
race will be what my account can really help the
world with. For example, eating disorders and black teens or
(23:26):
their black teams are fifty more likely to exhibit eating
disorder symptoms, but way less likely to be treated or
diagnosed for them, And that is a big problem, and
it makes sense, it's a it's a horrible problem. So
that's one thing I want to bring awareness to. The
Other is just the way food and race are so
deeply intertwined, and no one wants to talk about that.
(23:47):
So that's one thing I also want to do. Most
of my following is white women, so I really do
hope that by following me they can learn something about
race right now, yeah right now, learn something about race,
but also learn something about how they don't need to
apologize for what they look like. I've learned so much
from your account and I really look forward to going
(24:08):
there because you're so thoughtful with your content and really
aligned clearly to Like how you just described what you
want to do is exactly what you do. I mean,
every piece of content that you put up has an
element of whatever the opposite of tone deaf is, and
you also present it in a way that makes people listen.
(24:28):
If you choose to run for office, you got my vote,
that's for sure. Like, that's why I really wanted to
have you on. It's very clear that you're going to
do really big things for the world. I have a
hunch that Wellness Alexis will become Alexis Barber. And just
for for some context, Amy, the reason Alexis got all
the quote unquote followers was because the founder of the
(24:49):
diet that she was on called her because she spoke
up about what happened, and while the conversation was a
private conversation between the two of them, the founder went
on her Instagram live with over a hundred thousand followers
and told the story of their conversation, mentioning Alexis name
and therefore, all of a sudden Alexis phone like blew
(25:10):
up with followers on my first day of work. Yeah,
and she also very much like manipulated the story and said,
you know, no girl should follow what I do on
social media. Meanwhile, this is what she was doing. So
it was an explosion to figure out what to do
with all these followers. And yet you didn't miss a
beat in using the time very wisely to show up.
(25:31):
Thank you. I appreciate it. And just before we wrapped,
to encourage people to go to your page and follow,
because I do think you're going to make an amazing
impact on so many people from all different walks of life.
But there was a post you put up talking about
a trip to the beach with some friends. I encourage
people to go check out the whole post, but you
were talking about being in a swimsuit on the beach
(25:54):
or bikini with friends, and you said, if I found
myself judging someone or myself, I am need at least
switched the thought to one of kindness, From initially judging
what someone else looked like on the beach to a
radical compliment, what is that swimsuit too? Okay, girl, I
see you killing it in that plaid look. And for myself,
(26:16):
switching from my roles are really gross to who cares
about these roles that are protecting my body? I am
enjoying life. I just want to make sure people know
the kind of content they're going to get from you. Yes,
is to second what Lisa said, it's very thoughtful and
I am also encouraged by your posts. So yeah, keep
doing what you're doing, and we look forward to checking
(26:38):
in with you again later when because I know there's
more to come. When you said to look at who
you're following, how does it make you feel? What kind
of person are you becoming? After you look at somebody's posts,
and honestly sometimes too, and you can back me up
on this, doesn't mean they're a bad person. It just
means it's maybe not a good follow for you. There's
(26:58):
a difference between education and fearmongering, and it's an important
distinction for somebody to empower their audience to try this recipe,
try this new grain, try this new let's even make
it like you know, eat this recipe, look like me,
try this potion, look like me. And I think everybody
just needs to kind of be on the lookout for
(27:20):
those little seeds of am I eating this to be
more like that person, or am I eating this or
trying this to be the best version of me? And
everything we do in health and wellness, the true reason
brought down is it should bring out the best versions
of us, not the stripped versions of us that we
can't even recognize exactly. I think it beforehand, I, like
(27:42):
I said, I was trying to be this version of
perfection that society wanted out of me in both my
you know, external accolades and also my external appearance. But
now it's like, even in my job and in my
my everything that I'm trying to do, it's trying to
be the best for and the person who I want
to be. I don't think that I knew that I
(28:04):
could be anything other than what the world was telling me.
I had to and until I recognized that it was
all really up to me and it was all really
in my hands and I had I think that comes
with a lot of privilege. I will say, like, I
couldn't be doing anything I'm doing if I didn't have
stable income and a job and you know, as a
supportive parents and friends. But most importantly, like once you
(28:28):
recognize that this is all for bettering you and it's
okay to feel good instead of restricted. Then I think
the world will become a little bit more hopeful for you. Yeah,
you'll be that reminder to so many girls. You're only
twenty one years old. You have such an amazing life ahead,
but to know focusing on what's really important. I think
(28:48):
of how I spent my twenties and it was certainly
not where you are and even the damage. I mean,
I've been on air as a people have been hearing
my voice for fifteen years, and they're there's so much
that I wish I could go back and a race,
because I was a contributing voice to a lot of
what now I would never say. And I think that's
(29:09):
because to what following people like you and Lisa and
what we can do for each other. There's a level
of accountability to It's easy to slip into certain things
and maybe not even realize it, but to have thoughtful,
smart people that are well with you, I feel like
light years ahead of where I was. I wish at
twenty one I had someone like you and like Lisa.
(29:30):
So I just know to so many women and even
men like you're you're an inspiration. You are thanks for
coming on, and of course thank you again for having me.
I really I loved this conversation and it's at wellness
Alexis for now, for now. Yeah, I've been trying to
figure out I checause we'll see we all grow, and
we as we grow, we take off the layers and
(29:52):
wherever you go will follow. So whatever that turns to,
we're here for Thank you,
Feeling Things with Amy & Kat News
Host
Amy Brown
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