Bobby brings in Gator Harrison who is a radio programmer in Nashville on the Big 98. Gator talks about what a programmer does and how songs go from the artist to being played on a radio station. He also talks about how he got started.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey, welcome to episode one forty two of the Bobby Cast,
which we're brought in Gator Harrison, the program director of
our Nashville radio station, didn't even know he's coming in
for this, and I'm frightened. Now you shouldn't be. Also,
Eddie from the radio shows here too. Thanks for letting
me sit in. Well, you can be a part of this.
It's kind of cool. Well, so, Gator, you ever listened
to the Boby Cast episodes? Have you heard of? It's
(00:23):
always kind of behind the scenes stuff. So I kind
of want to talk to you about what a radio
program director does, because like I kind of know, and
even I don't really know, but I kind of know.
But I think a lot of our listeners and we
talked to so many songwriters and we talk about music.
So that's why I'm glad you were able to hop
down downstairs where the peons live. Gator works up man,
(00:44):
and sometimes y'all let me come in here. It's cool.
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trust okay, So Gator Harrison, Yeah, program director? What? First
(02:10):
of all, what I'm gonna act like I'm five because
I read these things on Reddit and they're called, um,
explain like I'm five. So because if I wasn't sitting here,
I would definitely want to know what a program director does.
So like I'm five years old, what is a program
director of a radio station? Uh, it's a little tough
to kind of explain. Um, It's essentially, anything that comes
(02:31):
out of the radio has got to go through the
program director's desk. So, whether it's music, trying to figure
out what songs that listeners, whoever your target audience is,
whoever your target demographic is, whatever listener you're trying to
go get, what music do they love, do they care about?
Do they consumb? Doing the math around that and then
making sure you play that with the right strategy. That's
that's a big part of it. What about like the
(02:53):
voice guy stuff? Absolutely, it's basically the image or the
brand of a radio station. So think about any product,
it's it's says something, it stands for something, it means something.
So for your radio station, you've got to identify what
what is what is it you stand for, what is
it that makes you different from all the other radio stations,
figuring out that the brand, and then writing things around
(03:14):
what that brand would say or stand for. And that's
essentially the voice guy or the imaging that you hear
on the radio station. So a big part of it
as well, I mean revenue. It all comes down to ratings,
revenue and and um you know digital and that sort
of thing too as well. So it's a big part.
I mean commercials, even commercials, I'll get emails going, hey,
is it okay to run this commercial on the radio station?
(03:34):
Does it line up with the brand? So there are
commercials you'll have to say no to because we like,
what would be something that doesn't line up with a brand?
I think being sensitive to a situation. Uh, Like in
Nashville we had uh a shooting incident at the waffle
house and and there was UM an advertisement for guns,
(03:55):
and it was like, no, we appreciate it, and I'm
a gun her myself, but that doesn't fit what right
now is happening on the station and in the community.
When you think about country music, I mean, we're all
about one and guns, but that wasn't the right moment
for that for that commercial. And you get pushed back
from that from like cel Staff and they'd be like,
hey man, we're trying. We always have guns, why why
(04:15):
can we do it now? So I would think in
that situation, no, not a lot of pushback. There is
times where you will get it, like if it's UM
an adult novelty store or a condom commercial or something
like that that you don't feel like is appropriate play
for the middle of the day in the car when
you might have the kids with you, and then you
compromise and say, Okay, after ten pm at night, I'm
(04:35):
good with it, or after seven or whatever, so your
day part even the Yeah, sometimes if it doesn't line
up with the brand or the again, if it's just
something that's a little questionable or you don't want to
have that conversation with your kids, because I'm a parent.
I got a five year old and a twelve year old,
and I'm fine with condom commercials myself. But if my
five year old is going, hey, dad, what's a condom,
(04:57):
I'm not really ready to have that conversation. I don't
want to put my listeners in that same kind of situation.
Makes sense, I guess my question is what what's a condom?
Five year old son? Say, you've been a program director
for how long? Oh? Um, she's twenty five plus years.
(05:19):
I've been in radio for thirty two and I was
in radio, yeah, a few years before I became a
program director. Yeah, how old are you? Album? Might be
the youngest, coolest forty seven year old, Like he's about
thirty five. Yeah, he looks really young and he acts young.
He doesn't act like an old dude. I appreciate you
saying you started where I started in when I was
(05:42):
fifteen years old in my hometown, which is Sparta, Tennessee. Um,
and I usually I have an older brother that's in radio,
and so I would go hang out at the radio
station and think get paid for doing this. He killed
me like I'm in and this was in the days
where you had albums on the wall and you were
playing the rotary pot boards. If you don't know radio,
you have no clue what I'm talking about. But you
(06:04):
know what I'm saying. It's like old old school. You
got cubern on albums. It was that kind of radio station.
But I love music, and so I just knew I
wanted to be a part of music. So at fifteen,
my older brother came and got a job in Nashville.
I took over his slot at the classic rock station.
When I'm fifteen years old, trying to sound like I'm
smoking forty four year old, right, who knows who the
crap led Zeppelin is, right? Or the Eagles or the
(06:25):
Doobie Brothers are all these artists. So that was my
musical education. But I literally would go in at six
in the morning, work until eight, be late for my
first period class in high school, get out of school
basketball practice, back to the radio station, and I would
do either afternoons or nights, depending upon what the need was,
and I would sit there and do my homework like there.
(06:46):
I honestly, it's uh, it's crazy to look back and think,
but when you love something so much, you don't think
about Bobby. You can attest to it. When you love it.
It doesn't feel as much like work, so you can
devote your life to it. So you've been I'm a
program director for the first time, and how old? Uh?
I mean essentially then, I mean you did everything at
that radio station. You did production, which was doing the commercials.
(07:09):
You did, figured out there was a music wheel, so
it was like what based on the color was what
the era of music that you played? But you could
pick anything off the wall that you wanted to. So
I was actually training to be a program director at
that time, but I didn't know I was. I think
the first legitimate shot that I got. I spent six
years from ninety ninety six in Nashville, UM, while I
(07:30):
was going to MT s u U. I became a
music director at that point. UM and uh John Ivy,
who shot out to him, who's in l A, was
the first guy that made me a music director. And
uh In gave my heart to Jesus. Uh said, Hey,
the outrageous FM and all the stunting and everything that
was going on was not where I felt like my
(07:51):
heart was. UM. And I got a call from my
hometown radio station in Cookeville, Tennessee, which is a neighbor
of Sparta Country station. You want to come programming? Sure,
And so that was jeez, I's twenty something years old.
How does someone get a song on the radio now?
If someone just have to have a song, like people
(08:11):
want to know, like, how does this song get on?
You know it's in the fifties, because I will still
get mail from people who are a songwriter or they've
done because now you can do a demo in your
in your house, right on your computer and people will
still drop off stuff and and God love him. It's
like it can be good, but you can't just stick
that on the radio, right, So I think you have
to have your plan, right. I mean I can say
(08:35):
that you know, you get your pop deal if you're
a writer or whatever, and you get a label deal
and they work the records. That's essentially how it happens
on a mass level. And they are all of those
rare exceptions. I remember Old Dominion coming in and not
having a record deal, but hearing them and seeing them
and said, you know what, I'm gonna play that anyway.
(08:55):
But they still had to have a management company that
believed in them that saw something and there to be
some a and are involved right to say that there
is something here. And I think in today's age it's
a lot of times not even the labels are leading it.
It's listeners out there finding and consuming music, right because
consumption is a is a big deal. So what are
(09:16):
they out there looking for? And they're finding and that
can sometimes point in the right direction of an artist
that may not be relevant today but could be relevant
two years from now with the right team around them.
So yeah, you're saying if you see something where someone's
or a group is consuming a song so much, you
may not look at the artist right now, but but
that's the thing to you that you'll see them again
(09:37):
in a year, year and a half, two years, because
if they're being consumed so much, other people are coming
to them as well, absolute managers, and then by the
time it comes around, you already know them. Or if
it's somebody that I don't think has a management deal
yet that I've heard or discovered on my own and
I think they're good, I'll pass their name law. Oh yeah,
I don't know. So I've spent um I spent six
years in Chattanooga. Ironically, enough, Lauren Lena and Kane Brown.
(10:02):
We're in Fort Oglethorpe, Georgia, which is essentially part of Chattanooga.
So we were playing Lauren when it was Lauren Suteth
right on our little hometown backwoods before American Idol. She
hit American Idol and then of course we were Lauren
Champs from then on. But even Kane. I remember Kane
Brown didn't have a deal, and he had this he
(10:23):
had just started posting, you know, is when he had
not made the reality shows that he had tried out for,
hadn't done well, or stepped away when the one had
put him in a boy band on one of the shows.
But he was releasing his music online and this crazy
following was there, and then you're like, oh, where did
all these people come from? How did they know about him? Right?
But it got your attention. You said, Okay, I gotta
(10:44):
figure out what this dude's about. And so we started
looking at Kane Brown music. And I remember sitting in
a parking lot and I heard used to love him, uh,
used to love you sober? And to me that was like,
that was the most commercial thing I had ever heard
from him to that point. And so we started playing
that song, um, and then again came today. Not that
it was us, but it's it's paying attention to little
(11:05):
things even before it gets to your desk from a label.
I think. So if they are songwriters or they want
to be artists, or artists that have started the process,
they're like, man, I just can't get my stuff on
the radio. What would you say to them? Ah, one,
I would say, just be uniquely yourself and build a
following if it's if it's I've got a nephews in
the music industry, and I said, you know, whether you're
(11:27):
playing to ten people or ten million people, do it
authentically to who you are and create something that you're
proud of, and then build out from that. Right, So
those ten people become a hundred people, and you tour
those cities and you build your following that way. I
think now when you come to a label, you've got
(11:47):
to have something. You can't just come with a great song.
You've got to come with Hey, I've got I'm I'm
pulling into this Many people right now are coming to
shows in this region or in this city or anywhere
I go. Right, I think you have to build that
following touring before you can really get your shot unless
it's just, you know, something crazy in the consumption world.
(12:09):
Kane was that he never really built a touring following,
but he built a following online. Florida Georgia Line. Did
that too, Georgia Line. Same way. On the On the
flip side, someone like Brandley Gilbert built it through touring
to the Southeast and he would just saw massive shows
and you would go, what's what's happening here? Something must
be happening because a lot of people are coming and
(12:31):
it's before Bradley had a big deal. Yeah, no, absolutely.
I'll give you a real time example. Cody Johnson is
kind of one of those guys who's being He kind
of got his start in Texas, built a regional following,
but he's playing a show in Nashville and gotten very
little radio play and its people that sold out show.
How did they find out about him? How do they
know about this guy? So there's different ways to to
(12:53):
find your audience. And I would say, if you're just
getting started, find your audience, whoever that is, and then
build on that. So how does it go for you
to actually add a song to the radio, Because I
imagine you're getting lots of calls from everybody in their cousin. Sure,
UM lots of different metrics that that uh that you
look at. Um metrics the over used word in our
(13:14):
industry by the way, right now, Uh, the label obviously
has an agenda. You've got record labels. Record labels have
an agenda. They have a roster of artists that they
are promoting different projects in any given time. And then
you've got uh, you've got your superstars that are coming
out with songs and who have a history that your
artists are. Your listener wants to know what the new
(13:37):
Tim McGraw song is and when's the album coming out,
So you have to pay attention to those things. But
when you're trying to figure out, you know, what is
going to be the next song on the radio station,
I'll look at um everything from the history of the artist,
what is the brand and relevancy of the artist right now?
And then I'll look at consumption uh sells as well, right.
(13:58):
But consumption is one of those things that it's it's
kind of one of those gray areas that I think
pets are trying to figure out, like what's an on
demand stream versus a regular stream and then how do
I really equate that versus sales? And where does all
of that information fall out? Um, And everybody kind of
has their own little mad science as to what it is.
But you know, consumption per spense is something big to
(14:19):
look at. If you're if it's only getting spun a
certain amount of times and people are going out and
buying it and consuming it and streaming it and it's
on their on demand playlist and that sort of thing,
it makes a difference. You can usually tell what's going
to be a hit based on what's getting consumed today.
It's weird you talking about streaming because even just with
me and when I look at music and I look
at it a different way than you do. Um, I,
(14:41):
you can't believe streaming numbers a lot of the time
because if things get playlisted, they just get played and
people like them. Yeah, and we are obviously gonna talk
to somebody about how they were talking about how. Um.
You know, on demand streams could be like on a
playlist like Spotify for example, and if people are listening
to that at work, right, the skip rates and stuff count, right,
(15:04):
If it gets skipped within thirty seconds, it doesn't count.
But if you're at work and you're just streaming that
in the background, you're not taking the time to skip.
You're doing your job, right, And I think and people
are just doing life. Even if you're listening to playlist,
you're just doing life and you're not taking the time
to really give consistent feedback. But consistency, I think is
the key. Right, You're gonna have spiked weeks and streaming
(15:25):
in that, but you can certainly see it's an indicator
of of hits to come. You can even buy streams
which people are doing numbers. Yeah. Well, and back in
the day, like seven years or so ago, I bought
five thousand Twitter followers and I was like, why opened
my eyes to the world of buying followers. Since then
Twitter got all smart and wiped them all away that
(15:49):
I was like, I'm paid for those, man, But what
I used to cost, yeah, like thirty bucks back in
the day. But this is what I did. It was
stupid because the New York Times put me in the
story about that bought Twitter followers and mine was so
small they didn't really they just had my name in it.
But what I used to do, and I'm glad they
didn't put it in there is I used to buy
all my I used to bomb on with Twitter followers,
meaning they would just wake up and have five thousand
(16:11):
extra followers and they'd be like, what did I do?
Because I thought it was the funniest joke ever, says,
So I was buying Twitter follw. I was glad I
didn't put all my friends in there. Every Luckily it
was just me because there was other radio and TV people.
I would buy them and I would sometimes I do
ten thousand, and I'd send them over and they'd be like,
why do have What did I do? Mind the news?
So that was a funny joke to me. But you
can buy YouTube views. I didn't realize that really easily.
(16:35):
Nothing you can't believe in in my mind. The only
thing you can believe is ticket sales. Yeah to me, now,
you really but much harder. If I can see eyeballs
at a place like if I can see you know.
But again, you're looking music different than I am. You're
looking at long term, you're looking at radio station heal,
if you're looking at a lot of songs. So, but
(16:56):
you can buy YouTube views, you can buy streams. I
know people who bought a million YouTube views on on
videos and so nothing is real to me except for
what I think is real, and that may not even
be right. I'll be honest with you, Well, what you
think is real? I think you have to uh look
at all those metrics on a consistent level, and usually
you can spot those oddities, like if you're doing it, Yeah,
(17:19):
if you're doing it on a weekly basis, you can
kind of see that because even if the labels or
management can manipulate those, they don't have the money to
manipulate those on every artist every week. So I think
you can spot those oddities, and you certainly do. But um,
I think it's also frustrating to me as a as
a music lover and a program director. I have to
separate the two things. That's crazy frustrating because in my opinion,
(17:39):
some of the best music in country is not getting
played or supported on country radio, and I I don't
really I mean, you've got your theories on why that is,
but it's just, uh, it just hurts my heart sometimes
to see what actually does work versus what I think
should work. That's that's that's different. It's tough. It's your
heart versus your head, and that's not an easy conversation
(18:02):
to have in a music meeting. Do you feel sometimes
people are going, oh, radio or they had the fist out,
like come on. I don't think people can care enough.
I think the only people that talk about terrestrial radio
versus streaming versus playlist thing, or people that are either
just mad passionate about music or in the music industry.
I think most people don't have time to care. Music
(18:23):
is definitely a big part of their life, and it's
certainly you know, it owns and captures certain moments in
time for them, whether what's going on in their life
when they hear a song or whatever. I mean, it's
music is important to them. But I don't know, you
know that they're listening to the radio to find out, oh,
well that's that's not the correct hit right that they
should be playing. They just go though, I like that
(18:45):
or not, and maybe they change it, maybe they don't.
Maybe they're not even paying attention because they're worried about
what's for dinner and getting their kids to soccer practice
on time, and their bosses on their back. They just
want to break right. I'm gonna ask you, coming up
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Bones terms apply. So yeah, the big hot button question
now is, first of all, what's the deal? Like why
(20:13):
as and you're not just a program director, but recently,
in the last year or so, you're now uh vice
president in the company. Have I already I don't know
what the crap I am? And neither do I. That's so,
why do you think because you kind of inherited some
of this mess, you kind of walked into and it
was already happening, why do you think the situation was? Well,
(20:36):
there aren't a lot of women on the radio. This
is one. This is a huge, huge question. Um and
and any time you're a mail p D and you
get this topic at all, it can scare some folks.
I'll just speak honestly how I see it right, whether
it's truth or not, it's just kind of my version
or my vision of what's happened. I mean, you can
go back to the nineties and you can see that
(20:58):
there certainly were strong females with great songs and and
great brands and great vocals. I think we went through
uh an an um a period of time in country
music to where we had great female singers but not
truly great female artists. And that might upset some people,
(21:20):
but that's just how I see it. And then I
think over that time there became this subconscious kind of
blindness from program directors seeing all of these female acts
that didn't connect, didn't work, didn't happen, and then it
kind of made this subconscious kind of stereotype that, oh,
(21:41):
if I add this female record, it's gonna take forever
to have. So I think that's one part of it.
I think another aspect of it is, uh, listen, I
just I live with two daughters and a wife, and
there's always trauma at my house, and so I think
there is something to be said with country music being
driven by email listenership of fifty four in some cases
(22:04):
that uh, the women have to like you and not
all women like women. And I know people hate to
hear that, but I think that is a part of it. Now,
I will say, I think that's changing, and it's changing
because it's become a big conversation not only in country music,
but with the me too movement and this woman empowering thing.
And I love it as the data two daughters. I
am all about it. So I think that's that's part
(22:28):
of it as well, um, because I don't think Pete's
we want to play stuff that works. I agree with
you that part of it. Yes, as a radio program
director or even me listen, I just want to play
what helps me get the best ratings so I can
have food like that. Essentially, that's what it is now.
I came in into country music after you did, and
(22:49):
so from my perspective, what I saw is something working.
There was a sound that was so male. Now this
is after what you're talking about, so I didn't see
any of this. But what I saw was such a
male sound working. And what happens not even just music,
not radio, but anywhere in any industry. If something is working,
everybody chases to it. It's like a magnets and they
try to reproduce it so they can then make that money.
(23:09):
Because it's all about money. I've never met one person
who goes you know what, just not in the female voice. Never.
But you can say that about traditional country. You know,
there are a lot of artis they're like, where's the
traditional country? Well, people were chasing this one sound that
drowned a lot of that out, you know. And I
would credit people like Florida Georgia Line with doing a
separate new thing that made everybody else go to it
(23:31):
and they get kind of you know, ball bash a
little bit. But they did their own thing. They didn't
create a movement to piss everybody off. They created their
own sound that was huge, and then everybody copied them,
and then because they were the trailblazer, they get hated on.
So what I saw was nothing about holding people down
anyone bands, because there's a thing about bands. There aren't
any bands on the radio. There aren't. There's not traditional country,
(23:53):
there's not. But it became a cycle of everybody trying
to mass produce the one or two things that really
really worked, and it just covered the whole radio spectrum
and now we're trying to dig our way out of it.
But I believe it affected the culture too, because once
everything is working this way, you're trying to develop more
of that and therefore there was a development of traditional
country female artists bands, and so you're chasing that. And
(24:15):
I think the culture in the last couple of years
has changed and now we're just now starting to see
the bloom from the seeds from the last. But again,
I'm coming in after you. That's what I see and
and listen a few years. I mean, this is all
in my five almost almost six years now. Huh So
(24:38):
a couple of other thoughts on this topic too, right
to your point of chasing what's working. We always talk
about the percentage of how much females are played versus
males on country radio. Look at the labels. How many
male artists do they have versus females aboutely radio, Yeah,
we can't play fifty fifty if we're not being I
mean of what we get from our play on the
(24:59):
radio is coming from a label. If that number is off,
and then I will say, maybe it's not even the
label's fault. I think if you're a songwriter over the
past ten years, if you write a hit song for
a female, what does that do versus a hit song
for a male. So if you're a songwriter and you
gotta write songs to feed your family, and male artists
(25:20):
songs are working better than female artist songs. Who do
you write the song for? So I think there's a
there's a bigger kind of culture. It's it's a culture,
and cultures don't shift quickly they shift. This industry is
following the consumer, right, like do we do what the
consumer wants? Everyone does what the consumer wants in every
industry whatsoever, period. That's a reason like Cam's Burning House,
(25:43):
that's the reason it was able to maintain because people
just kept buying it. Yes, they wanted it, and there
were times when researchers happening and it wasn't great for Cam.
People just kept buying it, and you waited it out,
and all of a sudden you're like, oh, everyone was right.
It was an amazing song. Because once in a while,
you try to push something that you think consumers would
like and it just doesn't. They don't need it, like
they don't want it. Is that they don't like that?
Of course I've done that many times, and so you're right.
(26:03):
So that's the thing where you're just like, Okay, you
stop doing what you think you're supposed to be doing
and just follow what they want from you. What's that?
What's the change? What? What? What needs to happen? Gator?
Oh Um, listen for for more females, or not even
just females, but for any of those females. So we're
(26:24):
we're best when we're broad, right, And I think the
way we get broad is people creating authentic music and
not afraid to be different. Right. And I think just
like if you're a songwriter or an a n R
person at a label, or you're a label president, or
you're the p D of radio station or you're the
(26:45):
morning guy over a hundred plus radio stations, you're gonna
get it right sometimes and you're gonna get it wrong sometimes.
But I think it starts with just being authentic, being real,
finding the best song and delivering that to an audience
that gives a crap. And if they give a crap,
trust me, everybody else will give a crap. What is
(27:07):
that light? Being a program director with it? And I
mean I'm your example, but with a show sometimes that
you have trouble reigning in, well, it's a good question. Yeah, um,
think about how would you reign in your kids? Right?
I know you you haven't gotten there yet in your life,
(27:28):
but this will make sense to you when you do right.
You love your kids, You care about your kids. You
wish you could make decisions for your kids, but you can't.
And you're always going to forgive your kids, but you're
always going to try to steer them in the best
direction that you think is best for them. So the
same way, right, Uh, In this case, it's it's we
don't have those conversations at bedtime prayer, right, but we
(27:51):
set a meeting weekly and we just talk and I
try not to talk about everything that there that I
don't agree with. Their morning shows me, and morn shows me,
and the whoever is doing mid days or afternoons or nights.
I think your job as a program director is to
essentially make everybody around you better. That's your goal. And
my goal is to not just make them better so
(28:13):
that I benefit, It's to get them to wherever their
goal and their dreams are. So setting up those conversations,
being honest and authentic in those conversations and making sure
that they know you give a crap about them more
so than their performance. And I think if they see
that in you, then I think they're more in line
to follow you, to listen to you and so essentially
(28:35):
become a better version of themselves on on the radio.
What is it like working with this show, specifically me
this show because we're not on just your radio station,
which has gotta be difficult for you at times. Oh uh,
you know. Um, so this is the first time that
I've ever worked with a morning show that I had
to share really, right, Um, I think obviously your time
(28:57):
is you don't have any but right, so having a
morning show that shared with other markets. First, having your
own guy that I can go to and say, listen,
you're doing this regardless. I can't really do that with
you because I have to be mindful of the bigger
picture when it comes to the Bobby Bones show. Right,
So there's a little of that. There's sometimes that will disagree. Dude.
There was some one time that I was trying to
(29:19):
be that big brother for you and I sent you
a text based on something you were talking about on
the air, and then you read it on the air
and tell me how to do my job. I'm like, no,
that's not That wasn't what I was trying to I
was trying to be your body and go, hey, have
you thought about this perspective of the topic you're talking about.
So there's those moments that I'm going, Bobby, what the crap, dude,
(29:39):
I thought we were bodies, what are you doing? But
you're just, you know, doing your thing. So there's those
moments that are challenging. But I honestly I love it
because when I when I listened to your show, I
don't know exactly what's going to happen. And to me,
that's what makes it interesting. It's always compelling, you know,
(29:59):
they're sometimes I rolled my eyes, and there are sometimes
that I just, you know, uh, enthusiastically throw my fist
in the air fist or the fans because I hear
something that's so brilliant. So I don't know that that
answers your question. I don't know that I can answer
your question. To be honest with you, you have a
question do you trust Bobby? Like? Do you Is that
(30:20):
a thing as a program director to put a lot
of trust in the morning show hosting In this case, Bobby, like,
do you how much trust do you have in him? Well,
if you're putting all your trust and whoever the morning
the guy is, because it leads the whole radios, you're
the face of the radio station. And by the way,
if you do something incredibly stupid, you don't just suffer
for it. We all suffer for it, right because if
(30:41):
it tanks the morning's ratings, it tanks the station's ratings.
It takes the station's ratings. The market president's going, hey,
what the crap? While you down three shares. If I'm
down three shares long enough, they're gonna go, hey, we're
gonna find a different program director. Good luck with you
and your family. And by the way, I work in
an industry that's sort of entertainment industry, so I have
no pension, there is no union, I have no retirement
(31:03):
except for what I lay up for myself, and so
there's yes, you have to trust not only who's doing mornings,
you have to trust everybody on the radio station. I
think that's what makes a good family, right. Uh, it's
just being able to trust each other and encourage each other.
Mm hmm. Well is there anything we haven't touched on? Um?
I wanted to know if Gator has ever broken an artist,
(31:24):
like we talked about breaking artists and going on going
out on a limb, taking a risk. Is there anyone
that you can say I take credit for whatever one.
There's nothing, none that I would take credit for. I mean,
I think you there's been those moments where I've recognized
it earlier, uh than other program directors might have. But
by the time it gets to me, the consumers have
(31:45):
already discovered it. The A and R people are the
teams around them, the management folks, they've already discovered it. Right.
So I don't know that I've been the guy that said, oh,
here's a kid on the street, I'm gonna make him,
you know, the next Garth. Right. But again, those uh, Lauren,
before she was a star, she just her vocals were
just so sick, right, So we were supporting and playing
(32:06):
her Cane before he had a record deal, Old Dominion,
before they had a record deal. We decided to stick
their song. I haven't done that a ton. I'm just
I'm a pretty conservative guy when it comes to music. Um,
But those would be the three that would stand out
that says I wouldn't take credit for him by any means,
But I was certainly one of the early believers. Well listen,
(32:26):
I know we pulled you down here. I gave you
like a fift even tell me what it was like.
He can come back down. It was like, ye, I
think he think he thought he was walking into a
meeting or something. I'm so stressed out, man, I'm one
of those I'm like, I've got to prepare for things.
I got to know what. And I knew that was
the case too, and I knew you'd be like, but
I feel like you answered everything honestly. Do you feel good?
You feel good about this? Sure? Yeah? No, Listen, I'm
(32:49):
honored of that. Um. I want to think a lot
of you and I respect you, and we probably have
more in common than you even realize. But just for
you to even give a crap what I think, uh,
to put me on the Bobby Cast, It's an honor.
And I want you to know I'm just not saying
I don't just say things. I really mean that. So
thank you for caring and put me on the Bobby Cast.
(33:09):
I believe him. I'm just sort of I'm just short
of saying I love you. I think it's short of it, Gator. Thanks.
I really appreciate I appreciate you coming down, and I
think a lot of people want to know those things.
I don't know about anyone else, but I learned a lot. Yeah,
I learned a lot about what he does. I see
him every day, but I don't know what he does.
I didn't even know his name, not really. I still
(33:31):
don't really even know your real name. I don't think
episode one forty two of the Bobby Cast. Gator, thank you, Eddie,
thanks for sitting over there. Yeah man, thanks for having
me good. I love sitting here watching this. I'll see
you next time. Everybody,
Hey, welcome to episode one forty two of the Bobby Cast,
which we're brought in Gator Harrison, the program director of
our Nashville radio station, didn't even know he's coming in
for this, and I'm frightened. Now you shouldn't be. Also,
Eddie from the radio shows here too. Thanks for letting
me sit in. Well, you can be a part of this.
It's kind of cool. Well, so, Gator, you ever listened
to the Boby Cast episodes? Have you heard of? It's
(00:23):
always kind of behind the scenes stuff. So I kind
of want to talk to you about what a radio
program director does, because like I kind of know, and
even I don't really know, but I kind of know.
But I think a lot of our listeners and we
talked to so many songwriters and we talk about music.
So that's why I'm glad you were able to hop
down downstairs where the peons live. Gator works up man,
(00:44):
and sometimes y'all let me come in here. It's cool.
Episode one forty two brought to us by Sleep Number.
So let me talk about Sleep Number for one second.
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I do believe you will love it. So, by the way,
my sleep score last night nine ninety two. Look at
that you hate. I didn't even have mind on my app.
I just I'd like to do. Yeah, I told you
get to stay number two. I was like, dude, trust me,
trust okay, So Gator Harrison, Yeah, program director? What? First
(02:10):
of all, what I'm gonna act like I'm five because
I read these things on Reddit and they're called, um,
explain like I'm five. So because if I wasn't sitting here,
I would definitely want to know what a program director does.
So like I'm five years old, what is a program
director of a radio station? Uh, it's a little tough
to kind of explain. Um, It's essentially, anything that comes
(02:31):
out of the radio has got to go through the
program director's desk. So, whether it's music, trying to figure
out what songs that listeners, whoever your target audience is,
whoever your target demographic is, whatever listener you're trying to
go get, what music do they love, do they care about?
Do they consumb? Doing the math around that and then
making sure you play that with the right strategy. That's
that's a big part of it. What about like the
(02:53):
voice guy stuff? Absolutely, it's basically the image or the
brand of a radio station. So think about any product,
it's it's says something, it stands for something, it means something.
So for your radio station, you've got to identify what
what is what is it you stand for, what is
it that makes you different from all the other radio stations,
figuring out that the brand, and then writing things around
(03:14):
what that brand would say or stand for. And that's
essentially the voice guy or the imaging that you hear
on the radio station. So a big part of it
as well, I mean revenue. It all comes down to ratings,
revenue and and um you know digital and that sort
of thing too as well. So it's a big part.
I mean commercials, even commercials, I'll get emails going, hey,
is it okay to run this commercial on the radio station?
(03:34):
Does it line up with the brand? So there are
commercials you'll have to say no to because we like,
what would be something that doesn't line up with a brand?
I think being sensitive to a situation. Uh, Like in
Nashville we had uh a shooting incident at the waffle
house and and there was UM an advertisement for guns,
(03:55):
and it was like, no, we appreciate it, and I'm
a gun her myself, but that doesn't fit what right
now is happening on the station and in the community.
When you think about country music, I mean, we're all
about one and guns, but that wasn't the right moment
for that for that commercial. And you get pushed back
from that from like cel Staff and they'd be like,
hey man, we're trying. We always have guns, why why
(04:15):
can we do it now? So I would think in
that situation, no, not a lot of pushback. There is
times where you will get it, like if it's UM
an adult novelty store or a condom commercial or something
like that that you don't feel like is appropriate play
for the middle of the day in the car when
you might have the kids with you, and then you
compromise and say, Okay, after ten pm at night, I'm
(04:35):
good with it, or after seven or whatever, so your
day part even the Yeah, sometimes if it doesn't line
up with the brand or the again, if it's just
something that's a little questionable or you don't want to
have that conversation with your kids, because I'm a parent.
I got a five year old and a twelve year old,
and I'm fine with condom commercials myself. But if my
five year old is going, hey, dad, what's a condom,
(04:57):
I'm not really ready to have that conversation. I don't
want to put my listeners in that same kind of situation.
Makes sense, I guess my question is what what's a condom?
Five year old son? Say, you've been a program director
for how long? Oh? Um, she's twenty five plus years.
(05:19):
I've been in radio for thirty two and I was
in radio, yeah, a few years before I became a
program director. Yeah, how old are you? Album? Might be
the youngest, coolest forty seven year old, Like he's about
thirty five. Yeah, he looks really young and he acts young.
He doesn't act like an old dude. I appreciate you
saying you started where I started in when I was
(05:42):
fifteen years old in my hometown, which is Sparta, Tennessee. Um,
and I usually I have an older brother that's in radio,
and so I would go hang out at the radio
station and think get paid for doing this. He killed
me like I'm in and this was in the days
where you had albums on the wall and you were
playing the rotary pot boards. If you don't know radio,
you have no clue what I'm talking about. But you
(06:04):
know what I'm saying. It's like old old school. You
got cubern on albums. It was that kind of radio station.
But I love music, and so I just knew I
wanted to be a part of music. So at fifteen,
my older brother came and got a job in Nashville.
I took over his slot at the classic rock station.
When I'm fifteen years old, trying to sound like I'm
smoking forty four year old, right, who knows who the
crap led Zeppelin is, right? Or the Eagles or the
(06:25):
Doobie Brothers are all these artists. So that was my
musical education. But I literally would go in at six
in the morning, work until eight, be late for my
first period class in high school, get out of school
basketball practice, back to the radio station, and I would
do either afternoons or nights, depending upon what the need was,
and I would sit there and do my homework like there.
(06:46):
I honestly, it's uh, it's crazy to look back and think,
but when you love something so much, you don't think
about Bobby. You can attest to it. When you love it.
It doesn't feel as much like work, so you can
devote your life to it. So you've been I'm a
program director for the first time, and how old? Uh?
I mean essentially then, I mean you did everything at
that radio station. You did production, which was doing the commercials.
(07:09):
You did, figured out there was a music wheel, so
it was like what based on the color was what
the era of music that you played? But you could
pick anything off the wall that you wanted to. So
I was actually training to be a program director at
that time, but I didn't know I was. I think
the first legitimate shot that I got. I spent six
years from ninety ninety six in Nashville, UM, while I
(07:30):
was going to MT s u U. I became a
music director at that point. UM and uh John Ivy,
who shot out to him, who's in l A, was
the first guy that made me a music director. And
uh In gave my heart to Jesus. Uh said, Hey,
the outrageous FM and all the stunting and everything that
was going on was not where I felt like my
(07:51):
heart was. UM. And I got a call from my
hometown radio station in Cookeville, Tennessee, which is a neighbor
of Sparta Country station. You want to come programming? Sure,
And so that was jeez, I's twenty something years old.
How does someone get a song on the radio now?
If someone just have to have a song, like people
(08:11):
want to know, like, how does this song get on?
You know it's in the fifties, because I will still
get mail from people who are a songwriter or they've
done because now you can do a demo in your
in your house, right on your computer and people will
still drop off stuff and and God love him. It's
like it can be good, but you can't just stick
that on the radio, right, So I think you have
to have your plan, right. I mean I can say
(08:35):
that you know, you get your pop deal if you're
a writer or whatever, and you get a label deal
and they work the records. That's essentially how it happens
on a mass level. And they are all of those
rare exceptions. I remember Old Dominion coming in and not
having a record deal, but hearing them and seeing them
and said, you know what, I'm gonna play that anyway.
(08:55):
But they still had to have a management company that
believed in them that saw something and there to be
some a and are involved right to say that there
is something here. And I think in today's age it's
a lot of times not even the labels are leading it.
It's listeners out there finding and consuming music, right because
consumption is a is a big deal. So what are
(09:16):
they out there looking for? And they're finding and that
can sometimes point in the right direction of an artist
that may not be relevant today but could be relevant
two years from now with the right team around them.
So yeah, you're saying if you see something where someone's
or a group is consuming a song so much, you
may not look at the artist right now, but but
that's the thing to you that you'll see them again
(09:37):
in a year, year and a half, two years, because
if they're being consumed so much, other people are coming
to them as well, absolute managers, and then by the
time it comes around, you already know them. Or if
it's somebody that I don't think has a management deal
yet that I've heard or discovered on my own and
I think they're good, I'll pass their name law. Oh yeah,
I don't know. So I've spent um I spent six
years in Chattanooga. Ironically, enough, Lauren Lena and Kane Brown.
(10:02):
We're in Fort Oglethorpe, Georgia, which is essentially part of Chattanooga.
So we were playing Lauren when it was Lauren Suteth
right on our little hometown backwoods before American Idol. She
hit American Idol and then of course we were Lauren
Champs from then on. But even Kane. I remember Kane
Brown didn't have a deal, and he had this he
(10:23):
had just started posting, you know, is when he had
not made the reality shows that he had tried out for,
hadn't done well, or stepped away when the one had
put him in a boy band on one of the shows.
But he was releasing his music online and this crazy
following was there, and then you're like, oh, where did
all these people come from? How did they know about him? Right?
But it got your attention. You said, Okay, I gotta
(10:44):
figure out what this dude's about. And so we started
looking at Kane Brown music. And I remember sitting in
a parking lot and I heard used to love him, uh,
used to love you sober? And to me that was like,
that was the most commercial thing I had ever heard
from him to that point. And so we started playing
that song, um, and then again came today. Not that
it was us, but it's it's paying attention to little
(11:05):
things even before it gets to your desk from a label.
I think. So if they are songwriters or they want
to be artists, or artists that have started the process,
they're like, man, I just can't get my stuff on
the radio. What would you say to them? Ah, one,
I would say, just be uniquely yourself and build a
following if it's if it's I've got a nephews in
the music industry, and I said, you know, whether you're
(11:27):
playing to ten people or ten million people, do it
authentically to who you are and create something that you're
proud of, and then build out from that. Right, So
those ten people become a hundred people, and you tour
those cities and you build your following that way. I
think now when you come to a label, you've got
(11:47):
to have something. You can't just come with a great song.
You've got to come with Hey, I've got I'm I'm
pulling into this Many people right now are coming to
shows in this region or in this city or anywhere
I go. Right, I think you have to build that
following touring before you can really get your shot unless
it's just, you know, something crazy in the consumption world.
(12:09):
Kane was that he never really built a touring following,
but he built a following online. Florida Georgia Line. Did
that too, Georgia Line. Same way. On the On the
flip side, someone like Brandley Gilbert built it through touring
to the Southeast and he would just saw massive shows
and you would go, what's what's happening here? Something must
be happening because a lot of people are coming and
(12:31):
it's before Bradley had a big deal. Yeah, no, absolutely.
I'll give you a real time example. Cody Johnson is
kind of one of those guys who's being He kind
of got his start in Texas, built a regional following,
but he's playing a show in Nashville and gotten very
little radio play and its people that sold out show.
How did they find out about him? How do they
know about this guy? So there's different ways to to
(12:53):
find your audience. And I would say, if you're just
getting started, find your audience, whoever that is, and then
build on that. So how does it go for you
to actually add a song to the radio, Because I
imagine you're getting lots of calls from everybody in their cousin. Sure,
UM lots of different metrics that that uh that you
look at. Um metrics the over used word in our
(13:14):
industry by the way, right now, Uh, the label obviously
has an agenda. You've got record labels. Record labels have
an agenda. They have a roster of artists that they
are promoting different projects in any given time. And then
you've got uh, you've got your superstars that are coming
out with songs and who have a history that your
artists are. Your listener wants to know what the new
(13:37):
Tim McGraw song is and when's the album coming out,
So you have to pay attention to those things. But
when you're trying to figure out, you know, what is
going to be the next song on the radio station,
I'll look at um everything from the history of the artist,
what is the brand and relevancy of the artist right now?
And then I'll look at consumption uh sells as well, right.
(13:58):
But consumption is one of those things that it's it's
kind of one of those gray areas that I think
pets are trying to figure out, like what's an on
demand stream versus a regular stream and then how do
I really equate that versus sales? And where does all
of that information fall out? Um, And everybody kind of
has their own little mad science as to what it is.
But you know, consumption per spense is something big to
(14:19):
look at. If you're if it's only getting spun a
certain amount of times and people are going out and
buying it and consuming it and streaming it and it's
on their on demand playlist and that sort of thing,
it makes a difference. You can usually tell what's going
to be a hit based on what's getting consumed today.
It's weird you talking about streaming because even just with
me and when I look at music and I look
at it a different way than you do. Um, I,
(14:41):
you can't believe streaming numbers a lot of the time
because if things get playlisted, they just get played and
people like them. Yeah, and we are obviously gonna talk
to somebody about how they were talking about how. Um.
You know, on demand streams could be like on a
playlist like Spotify for example, and if people are listening
to that at work, right, the skip rates and stuff count, right,
(15:04):
If it gets skipped within thirty seconds, it doesn't count.
But if you're at work and you're just streaming that
in the background, you're not taking the time to skip.
You're doing your job, right, And I think and people
are just doing life. Even if you're listening to playlist,
you're just doing life and you're not taking the time
to really give consistent feedback. But consistency, I think is
the key. Right, You're gonna have spiked weeks and streaming
(15:25):
in that, but you can certainly see it's an indicator
of of hits to come. You can even buy streams
which people are doing numbers. Yeah. Well, and back in
the day, like seven years or so ago, I bought
five thousand Twitter followers and I was like, why opened
my eyes to the world of buying followers. Since then
Twitter got all smart and wiped them all away that
(15:49):
I was like, I'm paid for those, man, But what
I used to cost, yeah, like thirty bucks back in
the day. But this is what I did. It was
stupid because the New York Times put me in the
story about that bought Twitter followers and mine was so
small they didn't really they just had my name in it.
But what I used to do, and I'm glad they
didn't put it in there is I used to buy
all my I used to bomb on with Twitter followers,
meaning they would just wake up and have five thousand
(16:11):
extra followers and they'd be like, what did I do?
Because I thought it was the funniest joke ever, says,
So I was buying Twitter follw. I was glad I
didn't put all my friends in there. Every Luckily it
was just me because there was other radio and TV people.
I would buy them and I would sometimes I do
ten thousand, and I'd send them over and they'd be like,
why do have What did I do? Mind the news?
So that was a funny joke to me. But you
can buy YouTube views. I didn't realize that really easily.
(16:35):
Nothing you can't believe in in my mind. The only
thing you can believe is ticket sales. Yeah to me, now,
you really but much harder. If I can see eyeballs
at a place like if I can see you know.
But again, you're looking music different than I am. You're
looking at long term, you're looking at radio station heal,
if you're looking at a lot of songs. So, but
(16:56):
you can buy YouTube views, you can buy streams. I
know people who bought a million YouTube views on on
videos and so nothing is real to me except for
what I think is real, and that may not even
be right. I'll be honest with you, Well, what you
think is real? I think you have to uh look
at all those metrics on a consistent level, and usually
you can spot those oddities, like if you're doing it, Yeah,
(17:19):
if you're doing it on a weekly basis, you can
kind of see that because even if the labels or
management can manipulate those, they don't have the money to
manipulate those on every artist every week. So I think
you can spot those oddities, and you certainly do. But um,
I think it's also frustrating to me as a as
a music lover and a program director. I have to
separate the two things. That's crazy frustrating because in my opinion,
(17:39):
some of the best music in country is not getting
played or supported on country radio, and I I don't
really I mean, you've got your theories on why that is,
but it's just, uh, it just hurts my heart sometimes
to see what actually does work versus what I think
should work. That's that's that's different. It's tough. It's your
heart versus your head, and that's not an easy conversation
(18:02):
to have in a music meeting. Do you feel sometimes
people are going, oh, radio or they had the fist out,
like come on. I don't think people can care enough.
I think the only people that talk about terrestrial radio
versus streaming versus playlist thing, or people that are either
just mad passionate about music or in the music industry.
I think most people don't have time to care. Music
(18:23):
is definitely a big part of their life, and it's
certainly you know, it owns and captures certain moments in
time for them, whether what's going on in their life
when they hear a song or whatever. I mean, it's
music is important to them. But I don't know, you
know that they're listening to the radio to find out, oh,
well that's that's not the correct hit right that they
should be playing. They just go though, I like that
(18:45):
or not, and maybe they change it, maybe they don't.
Maybe they're not even paying attention because they're worried about
what's for dinner and getting their kids to soccer practice
on time, and their bosses on their back. They just
want to break right. I'm gonna ask you, coming up
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Bones terms apply. So yeah, the big hot button question
now is, first of all, what's the deal? Like why
(20:13):
as and you're not just a program director, but recently,
in the last year or so, you're now uh vice
president in the company. Have I already I don't know
what the crap I am? And neither do I. That's so,
why do you think because you kind of inherited some
of this mess, you kind of walked into and it
was already happening, why do you think the situation was? Well,
(20:36):
there aren't a lot of women on the radio. This
is one. This is a huge, huge question. Um and
and any time you're a mail p D and you
get this topic at all, it can scare some folks.
I'll just speak honestly how I see it right, whether
it's truth or not, it's just kind of my version
or my vision of what's happened. I mean, you can
go back to the nineties and you can see that
(20:58):
there certainly were strong females with great songs and and
great brands and great vocals. I think we went through
uh an an um a period of time in country
music to where we had great female singers but not
truly great female artists. And that might upset some people,
(21:20):
but that's just how I see it. And then I
think over that time there became this subconscious kind of
blindness from program directors seeing all of these female acts
that didn't connect, didn't work, didn't happen, and then it
kind of made this subconscious kind of stereotype that, oh,
(21:41):
if I add this female record, it's gonna take forever
to have. So I think that's one part of it.
I think another aspect of it is, uh, listen, I
just I live with two daughters and a wife, and
there's always trauma at my house, and so I think
there is something to be said with country music being
driven by email listenership of fifty four in some cases
(22:04):
that uh, the women have to like you and not
all women like women. And I know people hate to
hear that, but I think that is a part of it. Now,
I will say, I think that's changing, and it's changing
because it's become a big conversation not only in country music,
but with the me too movement and this woman empowering thing.
And I love it as the data two daughters. I
am all about it. So I think that's that's part
(22:28):
of it as well, um, because I don't think Pete's
we want to play stuff that works. I agree with
you that part of it. Yes, as a radio program
director or even me listen, I just want to play
what helps me get the best ratings so I can
have food like that. Essentially, that's what it is now.
I came in into country music after you did, and
(22:49):
so from my perspective, what I saw is something working.
There was a sound that was so male. Now this
is after what you're talking about, so I didn't see
any of this. But what I saw was such a
male sound working. And what happens not even just music,
not radio, but anywhere in any industry. If something is working,
everybody chases to it. It's like a magnets and they
try to reproduce it so they can then make that money.
(23:09):
Because it's all about money. I've never met one person
who goes you know what, just not in the female voice. Never.
But you can say that about traditional country. You know,
there are a lot of artis they're like, where's the
traditional country? Well, people were chasing this one sound that
drowned a lot of that out, you know. And I
would credit people like Florida Georgia Line with doing a
separate new thing that made everybody else go to it
(23:31):
and they get kind of you know, ball bash a
little bit. But they did their own thing. They didn't
create a movement to piss everybody off. They created their
own sound that was huge, and then everybody copied them,
and then because they were the trailblazer, they get hated on.
So what I saw was nothing about holding people down
anyone bands, because there's a thing about bands. There aren't
any bands on the radio. There aren't. There's not traditional country,
(23:53):
there's not. But it became a cycle of everybody trying
to mass produce the one or two things that really
really worked, and it just covered the whole radio spectrum
and now we're trying to dig our way out of it.
But I believe it affected the culture too, because once
everything is working this way, you're trying to develop more
of that and therefore there was a development of traditional
country female artists bands, and so you're chasing that. And
(24:15):
I think the culture in the last couple of years
has changed and now we're just now starting to see
the bloom from the seeds from the last. But again,
I'm coming in after you. That's what I see and
and listen a few years. I mean, this is all
in my five almost almost six years now. Huh So
(24:38):
a couple of other thoughts on this topic too, right
to your point of chasing what's working. We always talk
about the percentage of how much females are played versus
males on country radio. Look at the labels. How many
male artists do they have versus females aboutely radio, Yeah,
we can't play fifty fifty if we're not being I
mean of what we get from our play on the
(24:59):
radio is coming from a label. If that number is off,
and then I will say, maybe it's not even the
label's fault. I think if you're a songwriter over the
past ten years, if you write a hit song for
a female, what does that do versus a hit song
for a male. So if you're a songwriter and you
gotta write songs to feed your family, and male artists
(25:20):
songs are working better than female artist songs. Who do
you write the song for? So I think there's a
there's a bigger kind of culture. It's it's a culture,
and cultures don't shift quickly they shift. This industry is
following the consumer, right, like do we do what the
consumer wants? Everyone does what the consumer wants in every
industry whatsoever, period. That's a reason like Cam's Burning House,
(25:43):
that's the reason it was able to maintain because people
just kept buying it. Yes, they wanted it, and there
were times when researchers happening and it wasn't great for Cam.
People just kept buying it, and you waited it out,
and all of a sudden you're like, oh, everyone was right.
It was an amazing song. Because once in a while,
you try to push something that you think consumers would
like and it just doesn't. They don't need it, like
they don't want it. Is that they don't like that?
Of course I've done that many times, and so you're right.
(26:03):
So that's the thing where you're just like, Okay, you
stop doing what you think you're supposed to be doing
and just follow what they want from you. What's that?
What's the change? What? What? What needs to happen? Gator?
Oh Um, listen for for more females, or not even
just females, but for any of those females. So we're
(26:24):
we're best when we're broad, right, And I think the
way we get broad is people creating authentic music and
not afraid to be different. Right. And I think just
like if you're a songwriter or an a n R
person at a label, or you're a label president, or
you're the p D of radio station or you're the
(26:45):
morning guy over a hundred plus radio stations, you're gonna
get it right sometimes and you're gonna get it wrong sometimes.
But I think it starts with just being authentic, being real,
finding the best song and delivering that to an audience
that gives a crap. And if they give a crap,
trust me, everybody else will give a crap. What is
(27:07):
that light? Being a program director with it? And I
mean I'm your example, but with a show sometimes that
you have trouble reigning in, well, it's a good question. Yeah, um,
think about how would you reign in your kids? Right?
I know you you haven't gotten there yet in your life,
(27:28):
but this will make sense to you when you do right.
You love your kids, You care about your kids. You
wish you could make decisions for your kids, but you can't.
And you're always going to forgive your kids, but you're
always going to try to steer them in the best
direction that you think is best for them. So the
same way, right, Uh, In this case, it's it's we
don't have those conversations at bedtime prayer, right, but we
(27:51):
set a meeting weekly and we just talk and I
try not to talk about everything that there that I
don't agree with. Their morning shows me, and morn shows me,
and the whoever is doing mid days or afternoons or nights.
I think your job as a program director is to
essentially make everybody around you better. That's your goal. And
my goal is to not just make them better so
(28:13):
that I benefit, It's to get them to wherever their
goal and their dreams are. So setting up those conversations,
being honest and authentic in those conversations and making sure
that they know you give a crap about them more
so than their performance. And I think if they see
that in you, then I think they're more in line
to follow you, to listen to you and so essentially
(28:35):
become a better version of themselves on on the radio.
What is it like working with this show, specifically me
this show because we're not on just your radio station,
which has gotta be difficult for you at times. Oh uh,
you know. Um, so this is the first time that
I've ever worked with a morning show that I had
to share really, right, Um, I think obviously your time
(28:57):
is you don't have any but right, so having a
morning show that shared with other markets. First, having your
own guy that I can go to and say, listen,
you're doing this regardless. I can't really do that with
you because I have to be mindful of the bigger
picture when it comes to the Bobby Bones show. Right,
So there's a little of that. There's sometimes that will disagree. Dude.
There was some one time that I was trying to
(29:19):
be that big brother for you and I sent you
a text based on something you were talking about on
the air, and then you read it on the air
and tell me how to do my job. I'm like, no,
that's not That wasn't what I was trying to I
was trying to be your body and go, hey, have
you thought about this perspective of the topic you're talking about.
So there's those moments that I'm going, Bobby, what the crap, dude,
(29:39):
I thought we were bodies, what are you doing? But
you're just, you know, doing your thing. So there's those
moments that are challenging. But I honestly I love it
because when I when I listened to your show, I
don't know exactly what's going to happen. And to me,
that's what makes it interesting. It's always compelling, you know,
(29:59):
they're sometimes I rolled my eyes, and there are sometimes
that I just, you know, uh, enthusiastically throw my fist
in the air fist or the fans because I hear
something that's so brilliant. So I don't know that that
answers your question. I don't know that I can answer
your question. To be honest with you, you have a
question do you trust Bobby? Like? Do you Is that
(30:20):
a thing as a program director to put a lot
of trust in the morning show hosting In this case, Bobby, like,
do you how much trust do you have in him? Well,
if you're putting all your trust and whoever the morning
the guy is, because it leads the whole radios, you're
the face of the radio station. And by the way,
if you do something incredibly stupid, you don't just suffer
for it. We all suffer for it, right because if
(30:41):
it tanks the morning's ratings, it tanks the station's ratings.
It takes the station's ratings. The market president's going, hey,
what the crap? While you down three shares. If I'm
down three shares long enough, they're gonna go, hey, we're
gonna find a different program director. Good luck with you
and your family. And by the way, I work in
an industry that's sort of entertainment industry, so I have
no pension, there is no union, I have no retirement
(31:03):
except for what I lay up for myself, and so
there's yes, you have to trust not only who's doing mornings,
you have to trust everybody on the radio station. I
think that's what makes a good family, right. Uh, it's
just being able to trust each other and encourage each other.
Mm hmm. Well is there anything we haven't touched on? Um?
I wanted to know if Gator has ever broken an artist,
(31:24):
like we talked about breaking artists and going on going
out on a limb, taking a risk. Is there anyone
that you can say I take credit for whatever one.
There's nothing, none that I would take credit for. I mean,
I think you there's been those moments where I've recognized
it earlier, uh than other program directors might have. But
by the time it gets to me, the consumers have
(31:45):
already discovered it. The A and R people are the
teams around them, the management folks, they've already discovered it. Right.
So I don't know that I've been the guy that said, oh,
here's a kid on the street, I'm gonna make him,
you know, the next Garth. Right. But again, those uh, Lauren,
before she was a star, she just her vocals were
just so sick, right, So we were supporting and playing
(32:06):
her Cane before he had a record deal, Old Dominion,
before they had a record deal. We decided to stick
their song. I haven't done that a ton. I'm just
I'm a pretty conservative guy when it comes to music. Um,
But those would be the three that would stand out
that says I wouldn't take credit for him by any means,
But I was certainly one of the early believers. Well listen,
(32:26):
I know we pulled you down here. I gave you
like a fift even tell me what it was like.
He can come back down. It was like, ye, I
think he think he thought he was walking into a
meeting or something. I'm so stressed out, man, I'm one
of those I'm like, I've got to prepare for things.
I got to know what. And I knew that was
the case too, and I knew you'd be like, but
I feel like you answered everything honestly. Do you feel good?
You feel good about this? Sure? Yeah? No, Listen, I'm
(32:49):
honored of that. Um. I want to think a lot
of you and I respect you, and we probably have
more in common than you even realize. But just for
you to even give a crap what I think, uh,
to put me on the Bobby Cast, It's an honor.
And I want you to know I'm just not saying
I don't just say things. I really mean that. So
thank you for caring and put me on the Bobby Cast.
(33:09):
I believe him. I'm just sort of I'm just short
of saying I love you. I think it's short of it, Gator. Thanks.
I really appreciate I appreciate you coming down, and I
think a lot of people want to know those things.
I don't know about anyone else, but I learned a lot. Yeah,
I learned a lot about what he does. I see
him every day, but I don't know what he does.
I didn't even know his name, not really. I still
(33:31):
don't really even know your real name. I don't think
episode one forty two of the Bobby Cast. Gator, thank you, Eddie,
thanks for sitting over there. Yeah man, thanks for having
me good. I love sitting here watching this. I'll see
you next time. Everybody,
Host
Bobby Bones
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