Paul DiGiovanni began his career in the punk-pop band Boys Like Girls. They toured for months on end and landed serval hits such as “The Great Escape”, “Love Drunk” and “Two Is Better Than One” feat. Taylor Swift. After the band slowed down, Paul moved to Nashville to become a songwriter and producer. He’s had No.1’s that include Justin Moore’s The Ones That Didn’t Make It Back Home and Dan + Shay’s How Not To. He talks about what it was like coming from the pop world into country, his wife Katie Stevens who is on ‘The Bold Type” on Freeform and his love fro Tom Brady and The Patriots.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
All right, welcome to episode. Paul D. Giovanni is here.
Good to see you here in the house. You know,
we've met out a bunch of times. I would say
a little more than just met that. We've been friendly
out a couple of times. We have for a number
of years. Now. I feel like, you know, is your
wife famous? It's pretty famous? Okay, I don't know what
(00:23):
what is she in? She is in a show on
Freeform called The Bold Type? Okay, is does that have
like a big fault, like a big fault, like because
when you got married and they had your pictures all
over people people, I thought, good for Paul. One, she's
way prettier than he has. It's always a goal for
us guys, right, it's always that's a huge compliment. But two,
(00:46):
I was like, can't people's covering Paul's wedding? It was
in the magazine too, which is crazy, like and then
I saw I went to your wife's Instagram and she
had a ton of followers. So she's an actress. She is?
So she did she end up here? She ended up
in Nashville, I will say probably mostly because of me. Um.
(01:10):
We met in l A. So she got her start.
She did American Idol. She was finished in eighth place
when she was like sixteen. How long ago is that? Um?
Eleven years ago? Is it bad that I don't know
all the history of American I don't like I'm on
the show and I'm like, oh yeah, yeah, there's still
a singer. Yes, so she hasn't done anything in a minute,
(01:30):
but um, we're kind of talking about maybe doing something soon.
But we met in l A. And um, she was
on a show called Faking It Um on MTV at
that point. And then that when a few seasons, I
ended up moving here um to do you know, the
whole country thing. And we were still together, but it
was one of those things where she had to work
there and I was here and we weren't sure what
(01:51):
was going to happen. She took a trip out surprised
me here, and while she did that, she was like, wow,
I love it here. All our friends are here. What
am I doing in l A? Like? So how long
ago was that? That was five years ago? Ish? And
so you guys have both been together, been here five years? Well,
she's an actress, so of course she's always gone. But like,
our home base is here. You get your mail here
(02:12):
the mail, Yeah, And I mean I'm always here, like
at all times here unless I'm visiting her and her
show was called The Bold Type. And how did you
two meet? Were you the guitarist when you met her? Um?
Or were you already the band when we met? The
band was pretty slow at that point already we'd kind
of like not really been doing anything, um And I
was writing out in l A and kind of just
hanging And I moved in with a friend of hers
(02:35):
and she I found out later she saw a picture
of me online with him actually a Celtics Clippers game,
and she was like, who is that guy in our
friend Garvy was like, oh, that's my new roommate. UM,
so she to you and she just showed up one
day and was like, oh, hey, who are you like?
And I didn't know she had preplanned it with him,
So I kind of got ambushed a little bit, but
(02:55):
the best kind of ambus It worked. Yeah, And I
really wasn't expecting to start with that, but I was
just thinking about you. I wish I do a lot,
thank you I think about and Uh, I was like,
oh yeah, I want because I again, unless you there
are so many ways now that if you're good at
what you do to have notoriety, success, fame, whichever level
of that that you And because I don't follow that
(03:17):
thread of female, I assume it's a female show. Yes,
it's like tampons and it's it's yeah, there's a girl.
It's like a younger sort of sex in the city things. Yeah,
So I wouldn't. I wouldn't stumble up on that. Probably
not I'm watching. I watched Cheer. Have you watched Cheer
on Netflix? I have it pops up and I'm telling
you I was holding out. I was like, what do
(03:38):
I care about a cheerleading show? But I do really
like documentaries. So I'm torn because one of those things
where the story is so good it doesn't matter what
the thing is they're actually talking about. Yes, but then
you really get into cheer and all of a sudden,
you it's one o'clock in the morning, You're like, I
can't do it, and you're just like feeling all of it.
You're playing like fantasy cheerleading competitions on your phone. It's
(04:02):
it's great. The girl that I'm dating now, um was
like you should watch it, and I was like, no,
I don't think so like, you should watch it. So
what I like to do sometimes to prove people wrong.
So I was gonna watch and hate it and I
was gonna hit Yeah. I was like this gonna I'm
gonna hit it. And then when she could just like
I can just be like, hey, let me alone. I
want to talk about it anymore. It's stupid. But I
watched the first episode and I was like, oh, are
(04:22):
they going only sixty days old Daytona. I need to
see what happens next. So when I turned Netflix on,
you know has the auto play thing? Cheer has been
auto playing full volume for the past two weeks and
I just hate get it out of my face speaking
to you. So I'm mad at it. But now maybe
it's like a thing that needs to happen. It's such
a good show. Like I'm really wondering what's up with
everybody like I've I'm not wondering because I've now stalked
(04:43):
them all on Instagram and luckily they're adults there there.
It's it's a junior college and it's Navarro Junior College,
so they're all like twenty two. So but yeah, it's great.
It's speaking of girls show. I may even like your
Wife's show. Do you watch your wife show? I do?
Do you like it? Would you like it if wasn't
your wife? I I think it's safe to say, like,
(05:03):
I probably wouldn't have started watching the show if she
wasn't on it already. But now that I do, it's
really good. It's funny, it's well written. There is something
for everybody on it. Well, good for you. Good. She's
always super nice, like she's like, yeah, she's the cool
She's let's I'll be honest, she's cooler. The people like
when they see me out there, like, hey, where's Katie?
(05:24):
Like immediately, I'm like, I get it now. I'm gonna
just roll through some stats on you real quick, and
then we'll come back to it. Number one songs that
you've written, just a more of the ones that didn't
make it Back Home Dan and Shay how not. One
(05:47):
of my best buds, Adam Hamburg. Yeah, And he came
out and was playing guitar in by band for a bit,
and we played this every night because you know, if
you write it, you get to play it. Oh that's cool.
I didn't even know that, and so I did. I
did a lot of the backgrounds on this song for
a long time. I had to learn it like awesome,
I learned the easy parts on guitar, but yeah, we
did that a lot. Um as a producer singles you
up from Jordan Davis, what's they're like? Because I know
(06:11):
what it's like when you're write a number one and
I have a lot of friends that have written number
ones and the number one parties. But if you produce
a number one, what happens? Um it's less cool. I think,
like you get like maybe a little less love at
the number one party, But that's fine. I mean, like
I know my job when it's it's as a producer,
like I'm usually my first thought is you know, I
(06:31):
I love production. That's why I do it right. Obviously
I wouldn't, but I'm always like, man, I wish I
had written this too, of course, but um no, it's cool.
I mean I love it all. I like I like
the mix. I like producing. Um like usually one record
at a time. I've tried to do multiple projects at
once and it just spreads me too thin. But I
like having that kind of like tinkering with something for
so long part of my job, and then also writing
(06:54):
every day and just grabbing the magic as it comes
and seeing what comes of it. Sort of thing back
and forth really works well for me. Have you ever
got a song to produce? And I thought, if I
if we just change this part a little bit here,
and then they said, you deserve writing credit on it
because you've changed it so much, because it's a fine
line when you're producing. I've heard of that happen because
(07:15):
you're creating as a producer. Have you Has that ever
happen to you? It hasn't. I mean, I've changed little
things here and there that I just think her for
the benefit of like my job as a producers to
make it the best thing possible. I think if I was,
if i've I mean, I couldn't even imagine being like, hey,
I think we need to change all these lines or whatever,
because that's kind of overstepping a little bit if it.
If it came to that point at some point, maybe
(07:36):
I would, But I never have. So I mean, I've
I've gotten some pretty good stuff to produce so far.
I guess that means you can change a word if
I could get credit and no one would care, and
I could do that every time I would change a word.
There are and you probably know them too. We won't
say them, but I know of a couple of artists
who have done that, who have been like, I mean,
you're I'm gonna cut the song like like, as an artist,
(07:57):
I'm gonna at a word. I've heard of that too. Um.
I think there's something too. If you're an artist and
you get a song pitch and you normally write your
songs in I get like, if you're an artist, you
feel like you need to own something to a degree
if you are actually making it a little more yours.
I think that that's a little more yours is different
than going I'm gonna change a word and one word
(08:18):
it seems like it's pushing it. I'm not worry behind
that even a lot. Yeah, it's a lot. I wouldn't
do that, I don't think, but disrespectful to the songwriters
who spent the four hours or more writing it demoing it.
I would like to say, I'm not an advocate of
people who do that. Right, if you're not changing it
really for the better that you believe deep down in
(08:39):
your heart, then yeah, that could be a little I
could see that could be seen a certain way. Other
songs you wrote the New Sam Hunts. Sitting with you,
I never feel like I was sad, always feel like
I can talk to God. Was Emily Wiseman, Josh Osborne,
Sam Hunts, and then uh, what do this one? Cassidy
(09:01):
Pope take you home? To take you even miss being
the guy on stage because we talked about your songwriting.
You're producing as you don't you know with that job,
You're not really out there as much. I'm back and
forth with it a little bit. When I'm at a
(09:22):
show and I'm feeling it at night and i just
see the band go up there and they're killing it
and I'm side stage or whatever, I'm like, man, I
kind of missed that. I have that in my DNA
a little bit. I do miss it. But then at
the end of the night, when I go home and
get in bed and wake up the next morning, I
kind of like, I'm glad I'm not on a bus
again for the next six months because when we tour,
I mean the country touring thing, which I never knew
about until I started doing country is Wednesday night till
(09:45):
Sunday morning, or Thursday until Sunday morning, and then you
go home for the rest of the week. Obviously rock
we would be gone for there were times we were
gone for nine months straight toward to tour to tour,
driving a van like every single day playing the show,
so that it was pretty exhausting. H And if you're
not familiar Boys Like Girls, you were the lead guitar
player Boys Like Girls. Uh, let's play a few of
these songs, because when I was doing pop radio, I
(10:06):
played the crap out of this the Great Escape. Here's
this one, Yeah, let's what would you say that your
next biggest song is? Like I know a bunch of
these just from being in around it, but I don't know,
(10:27):
like I think our biggest like on paper with two
is better than one with Taylor it was bigger than
the Great Escape. I think like number wise it was,
but the Great Escape did like got us going. That
was bigger, like for like a social thing. I think
like people remember that one the most. Yeah, I know
all the words of the Great Escape. I don't know
that I know too is better than one. Maybe because
(10:49):
Den'll Emo and Taylory. It's like watching The Girls Show
and I'm like, I don't know what's for me? Yeah, um,
and then probably uh love Drunk would be yeah, just
this one was a jam. Which one did you like
to play the most when it was time to show
up on the set list? So we had a fun
(11:09):
thing um where we played Um. I think that was
probably the most fun that got the crowd going the craziest.
But we would play certain songs twice in a set,
like we would open the show with Love Drunk and
then close it would Love Drunk, or play the Great
Escape twice or We're just We went to a we
had a radio event and was it Baby Bash? Yeah?
(11:33):
Was that the guy that had Cyclone and everything? He
came out and he was playing three songs and he
he did Cyclone with all the guys. They're whipping the
towels around, and then he played Sugar Sugar or whatever. Great,
and then they played Cyclone again, and the crowd went
crazier the second time. So we were like, what if
we just did this, It's like if people don't like it,
(11:54):
we don't do it again. But we started doing and
every time you played the song the second time, they
go crazier. So we just started doing it, and you
guys got together how very kind of organically. We were
just upround each other all yeah, all about an hour away.
Like I was an hour west of Boston, Martin was
an hour north, and John and Brian were an hour south.
So we just um me and two of the guys
(12:17):
started doing like this folk project in my town with
a kid I knew, and then we finished that. A
year later, I got a call to come audition, and
I did, and Martin was there and we just started
doing the thing and everything happened real fast. And Martin's
here now too, right. I've seen him around a little bit.
Are you guys cool or no? Yeah you are? I was.
I was over this house last night. All of us
were together, actually all really do you do? You guys
(12:38):
ever played together? We are? You're going to again in April.
We're going to Australia and a few other spots. Have
you guys thought about bringing it back? We have talked
about a few different things. We're not really sure exactly
what yet, but we're gonna figure it out. Somebody just
put out a record, Mike, we're just talking about and
in there Nashville were buddies with them, Yeah, yeah, And
(13:00):
we took them out on their first tour ever actually
way back. They have a new song. It's called like
I hate l A or something heard it and it's good,
but it reminds me of like you guys a style
that you know and a lot of that because again
I was in pop when you guys were over there too,
so we both were there. But it's like, man, I
could really see you guys doing it again. Yeah, well,
(13:20):
I mean I think we're kind of just like, I mean,
we all hang out every day, like we're still really
really close. So it's kind of like, why why don't
we just see what happened? Like what's the worst that
could happen? Did the company break up? Like because you're
you're a band and you had to like an l L. See,
I'm sure the money all went to right. Yeah, I
think we don't really have any of that happening anymore,
but like if something starts rolling again, we're that's the
(13:41):
easy part. The hard part is getting that that smash
hit number one song written. Dang, that's pretty cool. We'll see,
I mean you kind of we're just gonna if it's
not fun at this point, we're all doing stuff. They're
all like good looking and still like hitting it though.
It's good. Everything's good. Yeah, you and Martin are better now.
I think you're even better now. I like, I'll take yeah,
I think like you're awesome. You're like cooler and better looking,
in better shape, and I think that. Alright, we're gonna go.
(14:03):
I'm gonna go right after this project for a Boys
Like Girl. We're gonna announcement in midnight. Here's what here's
what we'll do. When you guys decide it, you can
come on my show and you can play on my show,
and we'll make the big announcement. If you want hundred
and sixty cities. Okay, that's helpful, so that it will
make that deal right here, because I was a big
fan whenever you guys do it, if you want, you
(14:25):
can come on my show. All right, you don't have to.
I can said, you know, Woody at all to a buddy,
I'm down. No, no, no, that's that's the right that's
the right space. Alright. How long did you guys do
Boys Like Girls? We did that from end to two
thousand five, and then we kind of we didn't like
say we're breaking up, but we just kind of stopped
(14:46):
doing stuff around twenty thirteen ish. And is that when
you went, all right, I'm gonna go to Nashville. Um,
so I was in l A. I think for another year,
and I never I was always on tour when I
was living in l A. So it's never there long term.
And I think I spent a year there and I
was thinking, I have to get out of here. It's
just not really it's just got to be groundhog day
(15:07):
sort of like every day is the same. I don't
really know what I'm doing or why I'm here, what
my purposes. And I grew up in the Northeast and
I kind of just missed um seasons and normal people
and things like that in Boston. Yeah, so, UM, I started.
I wrote a couple of country songs with my buddy
Kevin Bard, who we wrote How Not To with. Um.
(15:28):
We were doing sinc music a little bit, like he's
like a huge sync writer out there, which is if
you don't know, like television film like um, any of
those commercials, like those punk rock sounding commercials for like
beer commercials or whatever, cell phone commercials, all that stuff.
So one day he called me, He's like, hey, UM,
I know this girl who's doing this kind of country thing. Um,
would you be interested in like hopping in Like I'd
(15:50):
never listen to country, but I've never written it. He's like,
let's just try it, and I just fell in love
with how like how much sense it makes compared to pop,
Like pop, I was always a little confused, like what
are the people really talking about kind of thing trying
to write it at least? Did you feel like pop
is more melody driven? It definitely like I mean pop right,
once in a while, I'll still do it here or
in l A or whatever, and it's still like some
(16:10):
people get on the mic and just sing melodies for
two hours and pick their favorite three. It was just
totally different than for country generally, but just the content matter.
It's just like I didn't I feel like I could
just tell a story with country because that's what it is,
and it just made more sense to my creative brain.
I guess. So who was the girl you came here?
It was actually full circle story, this girl Katie Offerman,
(16:33):
who now is signed at Universal Publishing where I'm at two.
So she full circle moved here and started a thing
and now she's like doing an artist thing and everything.
Did you guys think Cassidy ever across paths early on
what she was doing? Hey, Monday, Oh yeah. We took
them out on tour. We played a million shows. I
remember once whenever it was Hey Monday and Mike, what's
(16:55):
the band that lives here? The girl? We just about
a paramore and at the time they were both around
the same spot. But they couldn't be putting next to
each other and it's a big drama. It was like,
I can't put them back to where was this? It
was in Austin, Oh And it was like, don't put
them on the same bill, right next to each other.
And they didn't dislike each other. That wasn't the reason,
(17:16):
but it was someone from one of the two camps
was like, they're they have a lead singer, they're female,
they're both punk pop. Don't put them didn't want to
see someone just didn't want to see them back from
one of the camps. Don't know which camp it was. Um,
you know, and Cassie and I've DoD a bunch of
work together and she's I've taken around. She's open for
me on some stand up towards and stuff. But again,
that's kind of a weird thing where you're over there
(17:37):
and now you're both and you end up writing a
song for her that was the craziest thing. So when
you come to Nashville you start writing, when was it
when you go, all right, I gotta move out there.
So I would take trips. Um. So early on we
used to blg us to rehearse here and we took
our buses out of here. So I had a lot
of experience with the city, especially with the Taylor Swift thing. Um,
so I had always loved it. And me and my
(17:58):
buddy Kevin just started in like one week every month.
We would come for a week and um, just right
for a week, bring the stuff back, produced it out,
see what happens. We got a few bites on things,
nothing crazy or really firm, but um, it just started
to make sense. And I'm like this, this is such
a community of a city that like it didn't we
couldn't just be these guys from l A that flew
(18:19):
in and like we weren't gonna get really embraced. So
it's like we have to be there just in right
full time. It's I was kind of just flying here
to go back to l A to pay ten times
the rent for no reason and not be where I
need to be sort of thing. And I think it
was probably six months. Maybe I was just like my
lease was running out in l A. And I'm like,
I think I'm just gonna go move to Nashville and
just do it. And you move here, and then do
(18:41):
you start to slowly develop a circle or do you
already have a couple of guys that you're you're just
kind of with. Weirdly enough, I feel like I had
when I moved here, I had more friends here already
than I had left in l A. A lot of
people had moved here from l A or from New
York music friends, people I toured with, different bands, just
it just felt like kind of built in, which helped
a lot. Did you feel like it took a second
(19:03):
to shake the guy from boys like girls to being
the guy who's gonna write country songs. I feel like
when I moved here, nobody cared at all. It's still
like very rare that someone like, if I bring it
up or whatever, people like, oh, oh that's so cool,
I remember them or whatever. But like it was never
like a pigeonholed thing, which is cool. Like a lot
of people here didn't really know the band, which kind
(19:23):
of maybe helped, But I bet they knew the songs
they did people do yeah, people like sometimes once they're like,
so what was that band telling about? And then I'll
like play a few things like oh yeah, or like
if you yeah, it's like, oh, it's like three steps
up from there. But that would you? Would you? I'm
(19:44):
assuming you were doing the b gbs on those I did.
I did some live. Our bass player was the pro
with those. So I try to stay away from the
singing duties. What is it like touring for six nine
months at a time, Like, do you just wear the
same clothes every day? We had like a wardrobe thing
and we had three shirts in three black pants and
we just washed them once in a while, and yeah,
it was. It was crazy. It just sounds gross and
(20:07):
no offense for Breeze. Yeah, it was a lot of
people think touring is glamorous. It is definitely the opposite.
Right even I'm even gonna say at how I do
it doing stand up if we take a bus or
if I'm taking like the small band, if we're doing
like and we we tour pretty nice and it's country
(20:28):
torning two, don't get me wrong. We'll leave out on
a Thursday night, Friday, Saturday, and it's a night and
it's still grind. You know, you see these teeth, but
not like you. My point is, it's nothing like what
you guys were doing. You're in a van for months
and months at a time. I never knew that there
was anything different. What are you eating though, at this point?
Are you just stopping for fast food all the time.
(20:49):
In the beginning, it was a lot of fast food.
It was Panera bread and cracker barrel we when we
were broke, we would unfortunately steal a lot of cracker
barrel food when we had to um, just garbage fast food.
Which is why you guys are so much better looking
now because you now can pay your bills and eat.
We can beat a vegetable sometimes. That's why it's so
(21:10):
great that you get back together. I know you can.
You can pay for a gym member who time totally
was now cannonball in that sucker. I'm a manage the band, alright,
let's do it. Um your Instagram, Paul B LG. Is
that because people have trouble writing your last name? Um
they do. But no, at a time, the band was
all your name bl G. Were you guys big warped
(21:32):
tour guys? We did warp tour one time. That's it.
Huh wow. I figured you guys to be a big
warped tour. We were like in that world, but not
like we weren't. I mean, we came from that like
EMO kind of two thousand three to two thousand nine thing,
but we were never like fully all in on it,
which I think was either why we had success or
(21:53):
the other way around, like we had success because we
weren't all the way. I don't know, but we did
it one time, and it is that was gross that
we're going to talk about. Gross. That was gross. Case
of water every morning, a case of beer every morning,
no laundry. You're in a desert's porta pott. He's got
to hit him before the sun hits some like bad
stuff get turned on right now? Yeah, you wrote the
(22:21):
ones that didn't make it back home. We talked about
that a minute ago. My question for that is in
the room as you're writing that song, was there ever
a discussion of boys this song maybe too long, this
title maybe too long? Um? We never had that discussion. No,
because I know I've said it about ten million times
and I'm always like, here's the ones that didn't make
it back, and I'm like, and I remember when I
(22:42):
was checking it out on the charts trying to see
where it was. It's always like the ones that did
Um No, we just wrote it. I did the demo.
I think I might have titled it that, and I
just always assumed I'll let them figure it out later.
And then there it was, the whole, the whole deal.
Talk to me about the discussion, and I'm gonna ask
you to think about things Brian about in a while,
but talk to me about the discussion as you're deciding
(23:04):
what songs you're gonna write that day and how this
song came up. So we were out we were actually
in Green Bay at lambeau Field in the parking lot
and um because Justin was playing like a couple blocks
away from there or something, and we were on the bus.
We were about to start writing and just talking about
ideas and Justin just mentioned I guess he says that
(23:25):
on stage every night, like here's you know, this is
just throwing up for the ones that didn't make it
back home or whatever, and he's just like, I always
thought that would be a cool title. We just started
rolling with it and like wrote it in pretty quick
I mean probably three hours to three hours. Did you
write it and then record you have a whole set
up on I had a little rig on the bus,
so we're like, yeah, we we we kind of built
up the idea. He went and sound checked and then
(23:45):
I had it ready and he's saying it and do
you look for quirky words or lines and songs to
stick out to people? And I asked this because there's
one little phrase in that song that I can't not
seeing every time it comes on. Do you know what
it is? Um? I got a lot of texts about that. Yeah.
Like at first, I was like, and there have been
(24:07):
a lot of songs where you're we hear it and
you're like, well, that's weird. But then it's the it's
the part of the song that remains with you the most.
It sticks out, and it's also on its own. There's
a little pause before it, a little pause after. It's
just Green being Castro Green, Remember Green being Castle roll
Grandma's recipe, except nine steps higher. Obviously it's and it's
all it's very visual, Yeah, exactly, exactly. Well is that
(24:29):
something did you guys teeter around without at all? Like
I don't know how do we leave this in? Did
it feel quirky at the time? It was not at all,
Like it was just kind of like, all right, what
you know, we've all kind of had some experiences, whether
it be personal or from through friends whatever, of you know,
something tragic happening like this, So like what really happens
in these small towns? And how can we just make
it just authentic and real? And that was just I
think that might have been a justin thing that he
(24:51):
just said, and just we just wrote it down and
rolled we we we never like, especially for that song,
we didn't sit down and we were like, what is
what is going to make people this or that? We
just for a song like that, you really have to
just write it from just authentic experience. I feel like
Sam has some of those two in his songs um
especially a body like a back road like hips like honey,
(25:13):
here's a couple of those little quirky things too. The
first time you hear you go, oh that, I don't
know if that and then it's the really the only
thing you remember that the thing you remember. I never
know if those are like a lot of those things
are like emphasized on purpose or if it's just like
happens to be the thing that bus into that that's one.
This one was definitely not we we we. We weren't
like picturing like hashtag green bean cast role trending on
(25:34):
Twitter or anything like. This was like just like a song,
like we were just trying to do the right You know,
when you finished this whole thing and the song and
you you recorded, you did a rough demo on the bus,
do you think I think we may have something here
with that one? Um? Because a lot of songs right, um,
(25:55):
but I think just based off the energy, especially like
being in with the artist, like I write a lot
of I write song every day with a lot of
writers and this and that. You know, you're lucky if
you get a couple of year that do anything. But
like when we're with you know, when you're with the
artist and he kind of falls in love with something
as you're doing it and it comes out really organically
and everyone's fired up, that's kind of like, okay, this
could you know, this could be the thing? Do you
(26:17):
a bit hope to get on with these artists right
about the time they start recording, because you know these artists,
the things they cut closer to their record they're more
passionate about, and they because it's so hot in their minds,
you tend to see a lot of those last minute
cuts get on. Is that ever a strategy with you?
That is the thing, that's a strategy? I think that's
(26:37):
more so I'll think about that with like pitching stuff.
If it's like, you know, none of us have an idea. Really,
let's look at the pitch you who's cutting next month?
Like yeah, okay, I mean that's an obvious one. But
I feel like as far as artists stuff, like whatever
whenever we get in with the artists is the best,
and whatever they are feeling and works out works out.
We I don't really try to like strategize it too hard.
I try. I feel like for me with being creative
(26:58):
and writing, forcing anything too much doesn't really work. Like
even just pitching in general, if it's like, all right,
let's write that Tim McGraw this thing that he really needs,
like I always failed. Interesting unless I try to write,
like just try to write the best song in the
room that day, I forced everything I should really How
not to what's the story that? How? How did they
get around to Dana sha Um? Well? That was the
(27:21):
last rite of the year in fourteen or something. It
was actually me and Kevin were rented a house out
and out here in Nashville. UM, and we had to
write with Adam and we texted him in the morning,
Hey we're still on He's like, oh, man, I didn't
have you written down today. Um, I'm about to head
home to Arkansaw. UM. He's like, I have like two
hours if you want to come by. And we were
like should we even do this or should we just
(27:43):
call it? But like, all right, we'll come by. And
we wrote this thing like an hour and a half.
It was crazy and we were just like feeling it
the whole time. And we had it for a little bit.
I think Rascal Flats had an on hold for like
a year that long. I think they had on hold
for a long time holding a second hostage. Yeah. Um.
And we always knew the song was special and we
(28:04):
were just kind of like waiting for the right you know,
are they going to do this or not? And I
don't remember if they were like kind of like we're
letting it go or didn't really care whatever, But um,
at some point my old manager, Rohan who now works
at UM Warner UM he you know, I've been friends
with Dan forever and Rose worked with Dan forever and
all that. So Dan was going to the studio and
(28:26):
they had an open slot for another song to cut,
and Rose sent a handful and that and how Not
To was one of them. Dance like I really liked this,
and they cut it in the last slot, and then
he afterwards, I guess kind of found out that I
had written it, which is cool because we're friends. He
didn't know, that's what. Yeah, I don't think he knew, um,
which is a cool little layer two it that he
wasn't just like, oh my buddy, Paul. It was kind
(28:47):
of a natural thing. Um. And they cut it and
then like as time went on, everyone's like, hey, people
are really digging this. It might be a single. And
that's usually the death Wish where it's never gonna be
a single, but lo and behold it got singled. And
that was my first My first one did a lot
for me. Death Wish that one. And when they name
a tour after a song, is that the death Wish to?
(29:07):
I never paid two much attention to that. Yeah, if
they come out and they're like this is the we're
butt boys tour, You're like, well, we we're bub boys.
Never gonna be a single because they name that. It's
never gonna be That's never gonna be a song. And
I've been sitting on it's on holds on hold. They've
had this song on hold for a year. Yeah, I'm
hoping in their their last tour here they finally released
what's the what's the paycheck? Like that? What's the the
(29:29):
difference in writing a number one song as a songwriter
and a producer? Um different, It's one significantly more than
the other. Yeah, I mean production, Like I said, like
I like doing that. It's a more constant thing for
the brain. And also because like you you figure out
a rate in the beginning to get paid per song
and then you get you know, you get paid for
playing on it and like points and all that stuff.
But it's not it's nothing like but the points on
a number one that you produced is nothing like this songwriter,
(29:51):
If you're one third of that, it's not the same. No,
much better to be a songwriter. So the producer is
a guaranteed check and the song rider is an investment totally.
So it's it's almost like a diversifying more my portfolio
by doing both at the same time. I guess you
could say, are you producing anything right now? Jordan's second record?
Right now, I'm doing Jordan Davis. How's that working out good?
(30:14):
Do you have any more hits in him or not?
He's we're done. I think we're done. It sounds like crap,
it's kind of it's just we're not no, no, it's
it's awesome. It's going good. We're kind of just um
and we've just been cutting a few every month and
just um, you know, it's been going awesome. He's he's
the best. Love working with him. What's up are you?
And Dan? You guys have been boys for a while, Dan,
Dan Smyers and Danaans. He is a psychopath. Love him,
(30:35):
love him, and it's it for me. It takes one
to no one. And I see just how he prepares,
and I go, oh, I feel bad for you because
I stuffer from the same thing, just control. And it's
a double edged sword. He he just cannot turn it off.
And it's I mean, it's obviously working out, as you
saw last night on the Grand May and I love
(30:55):
that it's working for him, like I root for those guys.
So I'm like emotional when I see them to legs
because I'm just rooting for him so hard. It's like
watching a hustler, get it. I mean, listen, there are
a lot of talented people in this town. There's a
lot of really talented people in this town. But that
line is so thin that it's whenever you see someone.
Because they were doing Tuesday, Wednesday Thursday night shows as
(31:17):
a country, act themselves in small places, like I was
watching them hustle like that build their fan base five
years ago. I have a picture from south By, Southwest,
Me and I think their lawyer or someone were the
only two people and it was just them to some
built in band and two people in a completely empty place.
(31:38):
And now they're doing two nights in our What's funny
is that's like only the halfway point of the story
because he had been doing like the whole pop rock thing.
Like we'd crossed past a million times way back in
the day, so like we we've been on the road
in like two thousand and six seven, He's been grinding forever.
It's not like you just like wrote two songs. It's like,
oh cool, yeah, I'll do a record deal. It's like
he's been fighting. Wouldn't that be cool if we got
to do two songs and talk like that in that
(31:59):
voice and get ord deal? Yeah, like that went that
got a record? That you get one? That would my
mom a star. That's what I'm hoping for. B l
G again. We'll write two songs tonight. I don't even
care if the song suck, We'll do it on the show.
They will. We're washed up man. Yeah, big stars. Tr
L performing TRL Time Square that was always a big
(32:20):
I know I'm dating me though too, because that was
a big deal to me to watch that, To watch
t r L in Times Square. That was when I
wasn't high school in college. That was like the mecca
of what you could do. That's probably a pretty big
deal for you guys. I think that was the craziest.
I used to run home from school at three pm
or two or whatever it was and watched that every day.
(32:41):
Carson Daley was the guy on TRL. Was he when
you played there? When we did it? It was was Damien?
Was that his name? Okay? It was him? Um right,
I don't brown. That was a big fan of guy
good looking, good looking at yeah, um, but yes it was.
That was the coolest thing. We did it, like man,
(33:03):
we did like four times too. I think we had
videos retired on t r L, meaning they've been on
so long that they had to go. You gotta pull
the plug on this one. We gotta pull it out.
And I think back to like Corn, Like remember that
Corn video with the bullet going like stuff like that. Yeah,
there we go. I go back to those and I'm thinking, like,
we're in the same spot. Those were when I was
like thirteen or whatever. You grew up in Boston. Are
(33:25):
you big Pats fan? I am? Did you get a
PATS tattoo? Recently? I didn't you. Did you get what
you can a tattooed? You get what your tattoo? My
new one is this one? What is that an eagle?
It is? What is that for? UM? I like it?
And that's good. It's got initials UM for. This book
called The Obstacle is the Way one of my favorite books.
(33:46):
I love it, and I love the concept, and I
love the whole the whole stoic mentality and that it's
just like I will never get sick of that. And
every time I look at it, I just think of, like,
I don't know, I just keep moving forward. The thing
you're trying to get around is the thing you need
to just through one of my favorite five books of
the past ten years. And the great thing about that
book too, it's not intimidating because it's about it's then,
(34:08):
and it's a lot of stories and the whole premise
is the thing that's driving you the craziest is what's
making you successful. Like the the ability to figure out
how to get around what's in your way. Is that
is that that ends up making you what you are.
So you should be grateful for your struggle because that
struggle is what makes you successful. A lot of it
(34:29):
was like everyone's always like, all right, once I get
through these next three months and this is in place
and I have this much in the bank, I'm gonna
do what I Really it's like, no, this is your
life right now. You're actually living your life. So if
you if you keep deferring it, you're never going to
be living your life. I just love stuff. I'm not
like a crazy like public speaker person like motivational speaker thing,
but I just like certain But I'll always read one
(34:52):
of those at a time and they just like fire
me up. Have you read what I'll ask you what's
your favorite book? Because it's hard. The books are like
Netflix shows. As you think about this is that there's
so many great ones and that it's hard to get
on the same page with all the shows now. And
it's like if you read this note, let this note,
if you watch this show. No like Cheer, you watch Cheering.
It's great to show in my lifetime. So here we are.
(35:13):
Do you have a favorite book? Probably the book of
Cheer before that they made the show out of. Yeah,
I like the novel was incredible, it was a great Yeah,
the graphic novel. Yeah, uh probably. Honestly, the Hobbit was
the first book I read as like a novel that
like changed my life, like just like the fictional thing,
and I was like, wow, this is like art, this
is incredible. Interesting. Stay on fiction for a second. Let's
(35:37):
go down the lanes. I like somebody that reads books,
like talking about books. Um, okay, continue talking about the Hobbit,
but don't go to nonfiction yet. So you love the
Hobbit because it was just the first thing I read that, Like,
you know, there's always a point and some people never
got out of it where you have to read books
in school and some people are just like I'll never
read a book the rest of my life. And then
there's always that turning point where you're like, wow, this
(35:58):
thing is this is all about I books are cool
or they can be cool. And that was the first
one where I was like, there's more to it than
just like trying to please my teacher and like I
want to just watch TV instead of this kind of
thing for you. And that was the one and I
was probably I don't even know, probably like thirteen or
fourteen or something. I just ripped through it, loved it.
It's fun. I don't read a lot of fiction, but
when I find something that is that is fiction and
(36:21):
as good, it's like the greatest dessert. And so because
I am a big reader and I've written a couple
of books, I love books so much. I like to
I like to read about people because I like to
read people's mistakes and go, oh I I relate, or okay,
that's I can learn about that. I think I learned
a lot through my mistakes. Most of what I learned
through my mistakes and through others too. And I don't
(36:43):
look at other mistakes to go I'll those idiots. I
go oh, I probably have done that too. What can
I learn from their experience? Um? But on the fiction
side of it, because it took me a while to
not take myself so seriously to read fiction once I
read the freaking Hunger Games. You read the Hunger Games books?
I didn't know I watched. No, don't blasphemy to only
watch them and not read them. Did you watch them? Yeah?
(37:04):
And and they were good. They were good, Yes, But
the books are better. They always are because you invest
weeks into a book, right, and you get two and
a half hours with Jennifer Lawrence and all that. That's
pretty good. Yeah. And the movies were good, but were good.
I remember reading the books? Maybe that or what was
the book? Tom Hanks ended up doing the movie of
the the Mona Lisa when the before the da Vinci
(37:28):
COO blew up. That book was everywhere when it was
so great. I should probably read that. But you've seen
the movie, so you know how it ends. I have
not seen the movie. O. Great, you'll love it. And
it's cliche now to say the DaVinci Code. When I
read it and it had just been Dan Brown had
just written it, I think I believe you, right, I
believe it. I was like, this is the great because
(37:48):
here's what I liked about it is it was a
fictional story, but they had so much reality in it,
and you're learning about art and all of that. All
the settings were real, but there's also a story weaved in,
and I was like that, it's great that and that's
the most have to read, the most too cliche books,
you could say, but it doesn't matter. I agree, it
(38:10):
does not matter what it what it seems like. Actually,
I read fiction a lot because I read a nonfiction book.
You know Tim Ferris, I know who he is. I
read a book of his and he was talking about
how fiction before bed is like the best thing to
just like meditatively disconnect you from the world and help
you fall asleep. So it's like I used to be
(38:31):
reading these like life self help you kind of books
like Morning Night and like before I bet my my
gears are still turning. And once he said that I
read like five pages of a book before bed at
night and I just passed out. It's awesome that works
for you, huh. I mean I'm a good so I
can fall asleep, and I could fall asleep on this
table if I want to the opposite fall asleep. I'm
(38:51):
like very for because I know a lot of people
like that. I'm very fortunately. Any time after like eight pm,
if I lay down, it's all over nonfiction. Favorite book. Um,
probably obstacles away, I have to say, because I did
get the tattoo. That's true. Um, you have it marked
on your body forever. So I gotta hope that author
doesn't do any like go off the rails and do
(39:11):
anything stupid, because but it is on a banner. You
could always I could change what that means. Oh yeah,
it could be like it could be like the Ostridges
the and then never say what it means. I don't
I'll write that book. Um. I just read this book
called The Indifferent Stars above which the title got me
on its own. But it's about the Donner Party. Um,
if you're familiar with it, like that party that moved
(39:33):
from the Midwest go hoping to go to California in
the eighteen fifties or whatever, and they left too late
and they got caught in a snowstorm up in these mountains,
and basically months went by and they were living off
of like they had like a they ate all their
like oxes or whatever was pulling the horses and all
that stuff, and they ended up like taking their skin
and boiling and water and eating that brought like they
(39:55):
were all just starving to death and they ended up
resorting to cannibalism. And it's very well documented and they
talk about it in The Shining a little bit, so that.
I love The Shining, I love the movie. The book, um,
and that kind of got me like interested, So I
bought the book thinking, Okay, this is cool, this is
gonna be gruesome and crazy. But the actual story of
it and the facts and it tells it in a
(40:15):
way that you can relate to these people as if
they're people in your life, it's unbelievable. So that's just
really like, I just finished that. It was one of
the best books I've ever read. Right now, I'm reading
this second Mark Manson All Hope is ft because I
read the first one. Oh um, the subtle art, which
is which is great. I'm read. Yeah, I'm reading the
second one now. Pretty good, pretty good, capitalizing on the
(40:39):
first one a little bit or a little bit, just
just running with it a little more. Um, I do
like it. I also do this thing, why read multiple
books and once and a reading together too. And I'm
also reading Hillbilly Elergy, which Adam Hamburg gave me, which
I never read. Him just was talking about that there.
He was like, you got to read it. We went
to watch Arkansas game, so he gave it to me.
I'm reading that. I'm reading the Ben Folds biography because
I love Ben Folds. UM. And then my favorite book,
(41:03):
and it's was written in the late eighteen hundreds. But
have you read How to Win Friends and Influence Others?
I'm very familiar, but I have not actually sat down
with it. Great. It's great in the way that most
of it still holds up today and it was written
a hundred years ago, is it? What is it like?
A little bit of the style of it is like, well,
a lot of the references, the references right are like
not like today yesterday, Churchill said, And you're like, what
(41:25):
that wasn't yesterday. So there's some of that. But I
read that once a year, so that there are two
books I read every year that um, How to Win
Friends and Influence Others? And I messed up the title,
and then I um every year I read um the
Four Agreements. I read that. No, I don't Oh, it's
(41:45):
so short. It'll change you for like a week, It'll
change you. So that's why you read it every year.
It's great. It's like, the thing that I take from
it is, don't sell it real quick. To me. Well,
first of all's really short. So even if you invest
in if bad, it's over and you're like, well, Bobby's
an idiot, you get into it the rest same reason
I got in to cheer, like I'm gonna show them
how much it sucks. I'll read I look at that. UM.
(42:09):
Never take anything personal in business ever, ever, And there's
a whole thing about that, because we work and we're
alongside people, we're running parallel, we're crossing with and we're
taking a lot of things personal. But we don't know
where people are coming from, we don't know why they're
doing it, we don't know their scenario. We're just seeing
everything from ours. And so that is something that is
just you read it and it really does adjust for
(42:30):
a while how you handle all of your relationships. Um,
but it's sure if you do read it, let me know.
You can read it in two days. It's like that
kind of that kind of book. I read the Notebook
in one day. That's fiction I read and loved, except
it's not fiction in my heart. I didn't read it.
Did you not know? In the beginning? The notebook that
(42:50):
what that? It was them in the end. In the
beginning I read it when I was like nineteen, I No,
I didn't. I'm an idiot. One of my friends brought it.
Why I read it one day? I didn't put it down.
I'm not a big Are you a big guess? Or
when you start something, do you guess what's going to
happen later? Do you try to? Yes? Because I spend
too much time doing that, And then I get two stores.
(43:13):
I'm chasing two different stories in the real kind? Which
one of my on? It's like which one ends up
being better? Usually though the one they wrote okay, yeah,
mine usually has an alien or talking about dogs. I
can explain a lot that plot hole. So those those books,
I feel like some of them make me feel better
(43:33):
only when I'm reading them, and some of them I
actually take things from. And that's the big difference for
me with like those like I keep saying self help,
that's it's like a dated term for them, but like
I don't know, enhanced life productivity books whatever, you want
to call them. So I wrote one of those, right,
and it well, But I call mine a motivational book.
That's that's a really good way. I don't even know
(43:54):
if that's a term that is that that makes more sense,
But I would say my my second one is called
fail until You Don't is a motivational book. But I
don't take offense. I don't think it's self help. Well,
not not even offense. It's just I just feel like
the connotation with self help is kind of like, hey,
you're definitely wrong with you, but we do well, except
we don't. Because if everybody hasn't wrong with him, nobody
(44:15):
has anything wrong with the If everyone is broken, no
one is broken, because there's no such thing as broken.
If universally we're all the same and broken, that's not broken.
So no matter what motivate, you can motivate your motivational
the book's motivational. There we go me the book. Instead
of saying it's it's it's help for being broken, it's
you're motivating whether you're broken or not. Boom, Yes, But
(44:37):
I don't think we're broken. No, we're not, except we
all are, which makes none of us we're not. But
we totally therapist hates me sometimes because I'll go in
to be like, but here's the thing, Like what you
what were you philosophizing to right now? You're paying me
a hundred and twenty five bucks an hour to be
a philosophy. Um, so you are a Pats fan, I
(44:58):
am like big, So I'm gonna predict what's happening with
Tom Brady and this is this is gonna live forever.
So you're you're on the record here right now. The
day is January. We're recording this. We don't know where
Tom Brady is going to go, but being a Pats fan,
where does he spend his final year or two? I
spend maybe an hour every day thinking this through, and
(45:19):
I come to a definitive conclusion of what's going to happen.
And then a little tidbit pops up on my phone
and I question everything. I don't know if I can guess,
do you. I'm gonna just do it for sport. You
don't have to. I'll guess and you can tell me
if you agree or not. I think I don't think
there's any way he leaves New England this year. I
think they put some weapons around him. I think you
stay because I don't think he goes to San Diego.
They can't win. I don't think he goes to Oakland.
(45:40):
He's not going to Indianapolis. I think you just start
peeling away his options. He's not going to Dallas and
so so do you think he's doing all this talk
just to play mind games and hope he gets what
he wants in New England? He was probably open if
teams today. Again, this could really bit me in the
butt because we're just talking about this life. Like the
(46:01):
charger said today, we're not going back to Phil Rivers.
And so he already moved, has already moved to Florida.
I heard right, and and today officially they're like but
to be fair, Brady packed his crap up and moved
out of his house too, But I heard conflicting stories
on that. If you really and his trainer moved too,
I know there's a lot. It's it's dark, and I
like the Patriots, like I didn't go in Boston like
you did. But I like teams that win and and
(46:23):
continue winning, and teams sometimes they don't like them for
a couple of years. There's like a threshold when I'm
like Okay, we get it. You're you're good two or
three years, but after you get like four or five years,
I'm like, oh, just respect now, like I respect the
fact that you can continue win. I think he stays,
and I think that Robert Kraft probably goes. We don't
want him to retire anywhere else. He's seriously looking. He
(46:44):
probably really looking. But I think they put a copy.
You can't just throw it to one Edelman. But he
wants more money and we're already paying like our defensive
ton I think, and we have like a bunch of
other like Antonio Brownson needs to get paid, and there's
all these weird things, and then I'm in jail, and
(47:04):
then I'm afraid of like this, remember this filming thing
that them getting and recently like if they get if
he leaves. Let's just say, let's put it this way.
If Brady leaves and the filming thing comes down and
we lose like a first round pick, or I'm going
to just stop watching football. That's where I'm both hit
you in the balls at the same time. Brady, I'm
so afraid it's gonna hit one weekend and I'm just
(47:25):
gonna be like I just gonna start watching rugby. But
the Bengals they were filming sin Sanatie if I'm going
from memory right, yes, which makes even less sense, but
keep going right, and I believe the Bengals organization, and
it all came out that they weren't really filming. Did
you see the video that they got leaked of it? Though?
What did it look like they were filming? It didn't
(47:46):
look good at least not the astros. You could be
an astros. That's worse. I'm glad that's taking the heat
of all of it right now. That's bad. That's really bad.
The mic, the your piece and the thing, the buzzer,
the whole thing. Remember remember I remember what's that the
short dude when he hit the home RN he was
holding this thing that is incriminating. He's running. That's the
(48:07):
Netflix documentary already on that. He's like, don't tell much,
don't tell because he's got of When when he did that,
I was like, that's weird. Is he's just superstitious or well?
What he said was his you know, he's very modest.
I know what he said. I'm not buying any of that.
Did you write today I wrote today? Anything good? Uh? Yeah,
(48:31):
it's cool, we're we haven't finished it yet. I like,
I like taking my time this year. This year is
my don't just rush to get a song done year.
Not that I do that normally, but we're gonna We're
gonna finish another day and make it the best that
it can be. What's right? What's it to you? Like?
What's the goal? Um? Just um, just keep rolling and
(48:52):
use the good energy and like another thing from a
book that the twenty rule. Are you familiar with that?
Like you get eighty percent of your benefits basically from
t of your whatever you do kind of thing. Um,
So I'm just trying to find what that of my
life is that's the most productive and just focus on that.
I kind of can sometimes get lost and like his
song might not be that great, but I'm really determined
(49:14):
to make the demos sound better. So the song, it's
just like I gotta cut ties with things that aren't
perfect and just work on what is the best focus?
Maybe that's the word. Any goal, like specific goal you'd
like to hit this year? Trop of that triple you
get that that they all three number one? I would
I don't really look at things in terms of that.
I've I've never been a big planner of like my
(49:36):
one year plan, my five year plan ten. I've never
been that kind of guy. I've always just on a feeling.
Like I joined the band on a whim. I I skipped,
I left high school early. I joined it. That worked
out for me. I I felt the need to move
to l A. I felt they need to move to Nashville.
Just always have done the thing and followed kind of
my passion and found what I need. So, um, not
any big like. I mean, I could say I want
(49:57):
like ten number ones this year. That's a cool goal,
but like, don't really look at it in terms of that.
All right, let's let's recap what we've learned. We've done
a lot. We've talked books. And you have a tattoo
of a book. I think that is a bad A
tattoo of someone reading a book where oh she is
reading a book that I don't know. Interesting. Um, So
(50:20):
we talked books, we talked Patriots. If Brady leaves and
you lose a first rounder or are find a bunch
of money, that's just my depressed minds. You're gonna I
know we're good. I love Brady, I love the Pats.
They owe me nothing. They've done everything for me at
the best childhood growing up watching that, I'm good love them.
Would you rather the Pats win a Super Bowl and
have to vacate it or not win one at all,
(50:42):
win it and have to give it back? Not that,
not win at all. We're good. We're good, clean slate
if if all we get is this, we have a
little dark period for a while. I'm fine with that
famous last words. Until you're deep in the dark period,
I know then it's I've lived a dark Perido's back
football fan hard, I've lived in the dark period. I
vicariously lived through that because I think about Adam every
(51:04):
time it's on and Justin Moore. All of us are
big we I mean, I can feel. I can't feel
for you, but I can understand a little bit, So
I'm sorry. We all go to games together like that's
a tight knit group of where they I don't. I'm
not a big college person. They were good like what
years ago? Right, well were they ever? Like dominant in
the sixties? We want a national championship and then we
(51:26):
did pretty well in the Southwest Conference back when we
were te toddlers. We were very close with Bob Patrino.
We're one game away from the national championship. And then
he got in trouble for hooking up with the girl
that worked with him. Dude beat him up that worked
in the administration because that was his fiancee. The whole
thing he got run out, program started over. We haven't
been success. Is that worse or is cheating in the
(51:47):
game worse? I believe there's cheating in the game at
all points, all the time. So when it comes out,
it's just everyone was doing it kind of thing. We
are caught. We did. I wish we would cheat more.
I would be honest, because we still I'd like a
little cheating. If it leaves with a little victory, I'll
take it. It works, Yeah, okay, I see, I see that.
I know, and then let the haters hate. I get
(52:09):
I have no winning. We're the greatest sports and that sucks.
I don't like being a good sport. I like money sometimes.
Um so, and we're gonna get boys that goes back
together and you're gonna play on the morning show. Love that.
Um I'm gonna take two because probably you think me
(52:30):
taking two percent? You guys an ba together the first one, No,
no, no no, no, no, no, the original first one love
love that and Mike, anything else that we learned here today,
I feel like we've got a good one. Anything else.
You don't make as much money producing as writing a
hit song, but you do make more money producing than
writing a song, because most songs you write you don't
(52:52):
get any money for. Yeah, it's it's all the numbers game.
But this this job, you gotta do it for the past.
You gotta do it for the love. If I only
cared about money, I would have done something else said
I truly it sounds cheesy, but I really love waking
up and just seeing what happens every day. I really
do love it. Look you sound like Russell Dickerson. That
guy wakes up and it's like the world is great. No,
I don't mean alright. I usually wake up and Michael,
(53:15):
I have to do this all over again, Russell. I
love that guy. He wakes up and it's like he's
got he's got energy. Yeah, it's amazing. I also, Mike,
just send me this note to the bold type has
a ninety percent rating on Rotten Tomatoes. Dude, crazy right,
Yeah that's high. That's yeah, that's extremely high. And tell
Katie said, hello, I will all right, there we go.
(53:35):
This has been a good one episode. And follow Paul
Paul b LG on Instagram and Twitter. Paul b LG
on Instagram and Twitter. And as long as you're b LG,
it's always a lie, it's a lie. It's always breathing,
because boys, that girl is always right there my fingertips, Hey, Mike,
would you before would you give me a little more
of the Great Escape? I want to hear it back
(53:57):
to my ears out here and on my board's dead.
Oh well, I will sing it there forget. Yes, little
I'm gonna blow. I got to go on the air
tomorrow with a blowing boy. Alright, Episode five. Thank you
very much. We'll see you guys next time.
All right, welcome to episode. Paul D. Giovanni is here.
Good to see you here in the house. You know,
we've met out a bunch of times. I would say
a little more than just met that. We've been friendly
out a couple of times. We have for a number
of years. Now. I feel like, you know, is your
wife famous? It's pretty famous? Okay, I don't know what
(00:23):
what is she in? She is in a show on
Freeform called The Bold Type? Okay, is does that have
like a big fault, like a big fault, like because
when you got married and they had your pictures all
over people people, I thought, good for Paul. One, she's
way prettier than he has. It's always a goal for
us guys, right, it's always that's a huge compliment. But two,
(00:46):
I was like, can't people's covering Paul's wedding? It was
in the magazine too, which is crazy, like and then
I saw I went to your wife's Instagram and she
had a ton of followers. So she's an actress. She is?
So she did she end up here? She ended up
in Nashville, I will say probably mostly because of me. Um.
(01:10):
We met in l A. So she got her start.
She did American Idol. She was finished in eighth place
when she was like sixteen. How long ago is that? Um?
Eleven years ago? Is it bad that I don't know
all the history of American I don't like I'm on
the show and I'm like, oh yeah, yeah, there's still
a singer. Yes, so she hasn't done anything in a minute,
(01:30):
but um, we're kind of talking about maybe doing something soon.
But we met in l A. And um, she was
on a show called Faking It Um on MTV at
that point. And then that when a few seasons, I
ended up moving here um to do you know, the
whole country thing. And we were still together, but it
was one of those things where she had to work
there and I was here and we weren't sure what
(01:51):
was going to happen. She took a trip out surprised
me here, and while she did that, she was like, wow,
I love it here. All our friends are here. What
am I doing in l A? Like? So how long
ago was that? That was five years ago? Ish? And
so you guys have both been together, been here five years? Well,
she's an actress, so of course she's always gone. But like,
our home base is here. You get your mail here
(02:12):
the mail, Yeah, And I mean I'm always here, like
at all times here unless I'm visiting her and her
show was called The Bold Type. And how did you
two meet? Were you the guitarist when you met her? Um?
Or were you already the band when we met? The
band was pretty slow at that point already we'd kind
of like not really been doing anything, um And I
was writing out in l A and kind of just
hanging And I moved in with a friend of hers
(02:35):
and she I found out later she saw a picture
of me online with him actually a Celtics Clippers game,
and she was like, who is that guy in our
friend Garvy was like, oh, that's my new roommate. UM,
so she to you and she just showed up one
day and was like, oh, hey, who are you like?
And I didn't know she had preplanned it with him,
So I kind of got ambushed a little bit, but
(02:55):
the best kind of ambus It worked. Yeah, And I
really wasn't expecting to start with that, but I was
just thinking about you. I wish I do a lot,
thank you I think about and Uh, I was like,
oh yeah, I want because I again, unless you there
are so many ways now that if you're good at
what you do to have notoriety, success, fame, whichever level
of that that you And because I don't follow that
(03:17):
thread of female, I assume it's a female show. Yes,
it's like tampons and it's it's yeah, there's a girl.
It's like a younger sort of sex in the city things. Yeah,
So I wouldn't. I wouldn't stumble up on that. Probably
not I'm watching. I watched Cheer. Have you watched Cheer
on Netflix? I have it pops up and I'm telling
you I was holding out. I was like, what do
(03:38):
I care about a cheerleading show? But I do really
like documentaries. So I'm torn because one of those things
where the story is so good it doesn't matter what
the thing is they're actually talking about. Yes, but then
you really get into cheer and all of a sudden,
you it's one o'clock in the morning, You're like, I
can't do it, and you're just like feeling all of it.
You're playing like fantasy cheerleading competitions on your phone. It's
(04:02):
it's great. The girl that I'm dating now, um was
like you should watch it, and I was like, no,
I don't think so like, you should watch it. So
what I like to do sometimes to prove people wrong.
So I was gonna watch and hate it and I
was gonna hit Yeah. I was like this gonna I'm
gonna hit it. And then when she could just like
I can just be like, hey, let me alone. I
want to talk about it anymore. It's stupid. But I
watched the first episode and I was like, oh, are
(04:22):
they going only sixty days old Daytona. I need to
see what happens next. So when I turned Netflix on,
you know has the auto play thing? Cheer has been
auto playing full volume for the past two weeks and
I just hate get it out of my face speaking
to you. So I'm mad at it. But now maybe
it's like a thing that needs to happen. It's such
a good show. Like I'm really wondering what's up with
everybody like I've I'm not wondering because I've now stalked
(04:43):
them all on Instagram and luckily they're adults there there.
It's it's a junior college and it's Navarro Junior College,
so they're all like twenty two. So but yeah, it's great.
It's speaking of girls show. I may even like your
Wife's show. Do you watch your wife show? I do?
Do you like it? Would you like it if wasn't
your wife? I I think it's safe to say, like,
(05:03):
I probably wouldn't have started watching the show if she
wasn't on it already. But now that I do, it's
really good. It's funny, it's well written. There is something
for everybody on it. Well, good for you. Good. She's
always super nice, like she's like, yeah, she's the cool
She's let's I'll be honest, she's cooler. The people like
when they see me out there, like, hey, where's Katie?
(05:24):
Like immediately, I'm like, I get it now. I'm gonna
just roll through some stats on you real quick, and
then we'll come back to it. Number one songs that
you've written, just a more of the ones that didn't
make it Back Home Dan and Shay how not. One
(05:47):
of my best buds, Adam Hamburg. Yeah, And he came
out and was playing guitar in by band for a bit,
and we played this every night because you know, if
you write it, you get to play it. Oh that's cool.
I didn't even know that, and so I did. I
did a lot of the backgrounds on this song for
a long time. I had to learn it like awesome,
I learned the easy parts on guitar, but yeah, we
did that a lot. Um as a producer singles you
up from Jordan Davis, what's they're like? Because I know
(06:11):
what it's like when you're write a number one and
I have a lot of friends that have written number
ones and the number one parties. But if you produce
a number one, what happens? Um it's less cool. I think,
like you get like maybe a little less love at
the number one party, But that's fine. I mean, like
I know my job when it's it's as a producer,
like I'm usually my first thought is you know, I
(06:31):
I love production. That's why I do it right. Obviously
I wouldn't, but I'm always like, man, I wish I
had written this too, of course, but um no, it's cool.
I mean I love it all. I like I like
the mix. I like producing. Um like usually one record
at a time. I've tried to do multiple projects at
once and it just spreads me too thin. But I
like having that kind of like tinkering with something for
so long part of my job, and then also writing
(06:54):
every day and just grabbing the magic as it comes
and seeing what comes of it. Sort of thing back
and forth really works well for me. Have you ever
got a song to produce? And I thought, if I
if we just change this part a little bit here,
and then they said, you deserve writing credit on it
because you've changed it so much, because it's a fine
line when you're producing. I've heard of that happen because
(07:15):
you're creating as a producer. Have you Has that ever
happen to you? It hasn't. I mean, I've changed little
things here and there that I just think her for
the benefit of like my job as a producers to
make it the best thing possible. I think if I was,
if i've I mean, I couldn't even imagine being like, hey,
I think we need to change all these lines or whatever,
because that's kind of overstepping a little bit if it.
If it came to that point at some point, maybe
(07:36):
I would, But I never have. So I mean, I've
I've gotten some pretty good stuff to produce so far.
I guess that means you can change a word if
I could get credit and no one would care, and
I could do that every time I would change a word.
There are and you probably know them too. We won't
say them, but I know of a couple of artists
who have done that, who have been like, I mean,
you're I'm gonna cut the song like like, as an artist,
(07:57):
I'm gonna at a word. I've heard of that too. Um.
I think there's something too. If you're an artist and
you get a song pitch and you normally write your
songs in I get like, if you're an artist, you
feel like you need to own something to a degree
if you are actually making it a little more yours.
I think that that's a little more yours is different
than going I'm gonna change a word and one word
(08:18):
it seems like it's pushing it. I'm not worry behind
that even a lot. Yeah, it's a lot. I wouldn't
do that, I don't think, but disrespectful to the songwriters
who spent the four hours or more writing it demoing it.
I would like to say, I'm not an advocate of
people who do that. Right, if you're not changing it
really for the better that you believe deep down in
(08:39):
your heart, then yeah, that could be a little I
could see that could be seen a certain way. Other
songs you wrote the New Sam Hunts. Sitting with you,
I never feel like I was sad, always feel like
I can talk to God. Was Emily Wiseman, Josh Osborne,
Sam Hunts, and then uh, what do this one? Cassidy
(09:01):
Pope take you home? To take you even miss being
the guy on stage because we talked about your songwriting.
You're producing as you don't you know with that job,
You're not really out there as much. I'm back and
forth with it a little bit. When I'm at a
(09:22):
show and I'm feeling it at night and i just
see the band go up there and they're killing it
and I'm side stage or whatever, I'm like, man, I
kind of missed that. I have that in my DNA
a little bit. I do miss it. But then at
the end of the night, when I go home and
get in bed and wake up the next morning, I
kind of like, I'm glad I'm not on a bus
again for the next six months because when we tour,
I mean the country touring thing, which I never knew
about until I started doing country is Wednesday night till
(09:45):
Sunday morning, or Thursday until Sunday morning, and then you
go home for the rest of the week. Obviously rock
we would be gone for there were times we were
gone for nine months straight toward to tour to tour,
driving a van like every single day playing the show,
so that it was pretty exhausting. H And if you're
not familiar Boys Like Girls, you were the lead guitar
player Boys Like Girls. Uh, let's play a few of
these songs, because when I was doing pop radio, I
(10:06):
played the crap out of this the Great Escape. Here's
this one, Yeah, let's what would you say that your
next biggest song is? Like I know a bunch of
these just from being in around it, but I don't know,
(10:27):
like I think our biggest like on paper with two
is better than one with Taylor it was bigger than
the Great Escape. I think like number wise it was,
but the Great Escape did like got us going. That
was bigger, like for like a social thing. I think
like people remember that one the most. Yeah, I know
all the words of the Great Escape. I don't know
that I know too is better than one. Maybe because
(10:49):
Den'll Emo and Taylory. It's like watching The Girls Show
and I'm like, I don't know what's for me? Yeah, um,
and then probably uh love Drunk would be yeah, just
this one was a jam. Which one did you like
to play the most when it was time to show
up on the set list? So we had a fun
(11:09):
thing um where we played Um. I think that was
probably the most fun that got the crowd going the craziest.
But we would play certain songs twice in a set,
like we would open the show with Love Drunk and
then close it would Love Drunk, or play the Great
Escape twice or We're just We went to a we
had a radio event and was it Baby Bash? Yeah?
(11:33):
Was that the guy that had Cyclone and everything? He
came out and he was playing three songs and he
he did Cyclone with all the guys. They're whipping the
towels around, and then he played Sugar Sugar or whatever. Great,
and then they played Cyclone again, and the crowd went
crazier the second time. So we were like, what if
we just did this, It's like if people don't like it,
(11:54):
we don't do it again. But we started doing and
every time you played the song the second time, they
go crazier. So we just started doing it, and you
guys got together how very kind of organically. We were
just upround each other all yeah, all about an hour away.
Like I was an hour west of Boston, Martin was
an hour north, and John and Brian were an hour south.
So we just um me and two of the guys
(12:17):
started doing like this folk project in my town with
a kid I knew, and then we finished that. A
year later, I got a call to come audition, and
I did, and Martin was there and we just started
doing the thing and everything happened real fast. And Martin's
here now too, right. I've seen him around a little bit.
Are you guys cool or no? Yeah you are? I was.
I was over this house last night. All of us
were together, actually all really do you do? You guys
(12:38):
ever played together? We are? You're going to again in April.
We're going to Australia and a few other spots. Have
you guys thought about bringing it back? We have talked
about a few different things. We're not really sure exactly
what yet, but we're gonna figure it out. Somebody just
put out a record, Mike, we're just talking about and
in there Nashville were buddies with them, Yeah, yeah, And
(13:00):
we took them out on their first tour ever actually
way back. They have a new song. It's called like
I hate l A or something heard it and it's good,
but it reminds me of like you guys a style
that you know and a lot of that because again
I was in pop when you guys were over there too,
so we both were there. But it's like, man, I
could really see you guys doing it again. Yeah, well,
(13:20):
I mean I think we're kind of just like, I mean,
we all hang out every day, like we're still really
really close. So it's kind of like, why why don't
we just see what happened? Like what's the worst that
could happen? Did the company break up? Like because you're
you're a band and you had to like an l L. See,
I'm sure the money all went to right. Yeah, I
think we don't really have any of that happening anymore,
but like if something starts rolling again, we're that's the
(13:41):
easy part. The hard part is getting that that smash
hit number one song written. Dang, that's pretty cool. We'll see,
I mean you kind of we're just gonna if it's
not fun at this point, we're all doing stuff. They're
all like good looking and still like hitting it though.
It's good. Everything's good. Yeah, you and Martin are better now.
I think you're even better now. I like, I'll take yeah,
I think like you're awesome. You're like cooler and better looking,
in better shape, and I think that. Alright, we're gonna go.
(14:03):
I'm gonna go right after this project for a Boys
Like Girl. We're gonna announcement in midnight. Here's what here's
what we'll do. When you guys decide it, you can
come on my show and you can play on my show,
and we'll make the big announcement. If you want hundred
and sixty cities. Okay, that's helpful, so that it will
make that deal right here, because I was a big
fan whenever you guys do it, if you want, you
(14:25):
can come on my show. All right, you don't have to.
I can said, you know, Woody at all to a buddy,
I'm down. No, no, no, that's that's the right that's
the right space. Alright. How long did you guys do
Boys Like Girls? We did that from end to two
thousand five, and then we kind of we didn't like
say we're breaking up, but we just kind of stopped
(14:46):
doing stuff around twenty thirteen ish. And is that when
you went, all right, I'm gonna go to Nashville. Um,
so I was in l A. I think for another year,
and I never I was always on tour when I
was living in l A. So it's never there long term.
And I think I spent a year there and I
was thinking, I have to get out of here. It's
just not really it's just got to be groundhog day
(15:07):
sort of like every day is the same. I don't
really know what I'm doing or why I'm here, what
my purposes. And I grew up in the Northeast and
I kind of just missed um seasons and normal people
and things like that in Boston. Yeah, so, UM, I started.
I wrote a couple of country songs with my buddy
Kevin Bard, who we wrote How Not To with. Um.
(15:28):
We were doing sinc music a little bit, like he's
like a huge sync writer out there, which is if
you don't know, like television film like um, any of
those commercials, like those punk rock sounding commercials for like
beer commercials or whatever, cell phone commercials, all that stuff.
So one day he called me, He's like, hey, UM,
I know this girl who's doing this kind of country thing. Um,
would you be interested in like hopping in Like I'd
(15:50):
never listen to country, but I've never written it. He's like,
let's just try it, and I just fell in love
with how like how much sense it makes compared to pop,
Like pop, I was always a little confused, like what
are the people really talking about kind of thing trying
to write it at least? Did you feel like pop
is more melody driven? It definitely like I mean pop right,
once in a while, I'll still do it here or
in l A or whatever, and it's still like some
(16:10):
people get on the mic and just sing melodies for
two hours and pick their favorite three. It was just
totally different than for country generally, but just the content matter.
It's just like I didn't I feel like I could
just tell a story with country because that's what it is,
and it just made more sense to my creative brain.
I guess. So who was the girl you came here?
It was actually full circle story, this girl Katie Offerman,
(16:33):
who now is signed at Universal Publishing where I'm at two.
So she full circle moved here and started a thing
and now she's like doing an artist thing and everything.
Did you guys think Cassidy ever across paths early on
what she was doing? Hey, Monday, Oh yeah. We took
them out on tour. We played a million shows. I
remember once whenever it was Hey Monday and Mike, what's
(16:55):
the band that lives here? The girl? We just about
a paramore and at the time they were both around
the same spot. But they couldn't be putting next to
each other and it's a big drama. It was like,
I can't put them back to where was this? It
was in Austin, Oh And it was like, don't put
them on the same bill, right next to each other.
And they didn't dislike each other. That wasn't the reason,
(17:16):
but it was someone from one of the two camps
was like, they're they have a lead singer, they're female,
they're both punk pop. Don't put them didn't want to
see someone just didn't want to see them back from
one of the camps. Don't know which camp it was. Um,
you know, and Cassie and I've DoD a bunch of
work together and she's I've taken around. She's open for
me on some stand up towards and stuff. But again,
that's kind of a weird thing where you're over there
(17:37):
and now you're both and you end up writing a
song for her that was the craziest thing. So when
you come to Nashville you start writing, when was it
when you go, all right, I gotta move out there.
So I would take trips. Um. So early on we
used to blg us to rehearse here and we took
our buses out of here. So I had a lot
of experience with the city, especially with the Taylor Swift thing. Um,
so I had always loved it. And me and my
(17:58):
buddy Kevin just started in like one week every month.
We would come for a week and um, just right
for a week, bring the stuff back, produced it out,
see what happens. We got a few bites on things,
nothing crazy or really firm, but um, it just started
to make sense. And I'm like this, this is such
a community of a city that like it didn't we
couldn't just be these guys from l A that flew
(18:19):
in and like we weren't gonna get really embraced. So
it's like we have to be there just in right
full time. It's I was kind of just flying here
to go back to l A to pay ten times
the rent for no reason and not be where I
need to be sort of thing. And I think it
was probably six months. Maybe I was just like my
lease was running out in l A. And I'm like,
I think I'm just gonna go move to Nashville and
just do it. And you move here, and then do
(18:41):
you start to slowly develop a circle or do you
already have a couple of guys that you're you're just
kind of with. Weirdly enough, I feel like I had
when I moved here, I had more friends here already
than I had left in l A. A lot of
people had moved here from l A or from New
York music friends, people I toured with, different bands, just
it just felt like kind of built in, which helped
a lot. Did you feel like it took a second
(19:03):
to shake the guy from boys like girls to being
the guy who's gonna write country songs. I feel like
when I moved here, nobody cared at all. It's still
like very rare that someone like, if I bring it
up or whatever, people like, oh, oh that's so cool,
I remember them or whatever. But like it was never
like a pigeonholed thing, which is cool. Like a lot
of people here didn't really know the band, which kind
(19:23):
of maybe helped, But I bet they knew the songs
they did people do yeah, people like sometimes once they're like,
so what was that band telling about? And then I'll
like play a few things like oh yeah, or like
if you yeah, it's like, oh, it's like three steps
up from there. But that would you? Would you? I'm
(19:44):
assuming you were doing the b gbs on those I did.
I did some live. Our bass player was the pro
with those. So I try to stay away from the
singing duties. What is it like touring for six nine
months at a time, Like, do you just wear the
same clothes every day? We had like a wardrobe thing
and we had three shirts in three black pants and
we just washed them once in a while, and yeah,
it was. It was crazy. It just sounds gross and
(20:07):
no offense for Breeze. Yeah, it was a lot of
people think touring is glamorous. It is definitely the opposite.
Right even I'm even gonna say at how I do
it doing stand up if we take a bus or
if I'm taking like the small band, if we're doing
like and we we tour pretty nice and it's country
(20:28):
torning two, don't get me wrong. We'll leave out on
a Thursday night, Friday, Saturday, and it's a night and
it's still grind. You know, you see these teeth, but
not like you. My point is, it's nothing like what
you guys were doing. You're in a van for months
and months at a time. I never knew that there
was anything different. What are you eating though, at this point?
Are you just stopping for fast food all the time.
(20:49):
In the beginning, it was a lot of fast food.
It was Panera bread and cracker barrel we when we
were broke, we would unfortunately steal a lot of cracker
barrel food when we had to um, just garbage fast food.
Which is why you guys are so much better looking
now because you now can pay your bills and eat.
We can beat a vegetable sometimes. That's why it's so
(21:10):
great that you get back together. I know you can.
You can pay for a gym member who time totally
was now cannonball in that sucker. I'm a manage the band, alright,
let's do it. Um your Instagram, Paul B LG. Is
that because people have trouble writing your last name? Um
they do. But no, at a time, the band was
all your name bl G. Were you guys big warped
(21:32):
tour guys? We did warp tour one time. That's it.
Huh wow. I figured you guys to be a big
warped tour. We were like in that world, but not
like we weren't. I mean, we came from that like
EMO kind of two thousand three to two thousand nine thing,
but we were never like fully all in on it,
which I think was either why we had success or
(21:53):
the other way around, like we had success because we
weren't all the way. I don't know, but we did
it one time, and it is that was gross that
we're going to talk about. Gross. That was gross. Case
of water every morning, a case of beer every morning,
no laundry. You're in a desert's porta pott. He's got
to hit him before the sun hits some like bad
stuff get turned on right now? Yeah, you wrote the
(22:21):
ones that didn't make it back home. We talked about
that a minute ago. My question for that is in
the room as you're writing that song, was there ever
a discussion of boys this song maybe too long, this
title maybe too long? Um? We never had that discussion. No,
because I know I've said it about ten million times
and I'm always like, here's the ones that didn't make
it back, and I'm like, and I remember when I
(22:42):
was checking it out on the charts trying to see
where it was. It's always like the ones that did
Um No, we just wrote it. I did the demo.
I think I might have titled it that, and I
just always assumed I'll let them figure it out later.
And then there it was, the whole, the whole deal.
Talk to me about the discussion, and I'm gonna ask
you to think about things Brian about in a while,
but talk to me about the discussion as you're deciding
(23:04):
what songs you're gonna write that day and how this
song came up. So we were out we were actually
in Green Bay at lambeau Field in the parking lot
and um because Justin was playing like a couple blocks
away from there or something, and we were on the bus.
We were about to start writing and just talking about
ideas and Justin just mentioned I guess he says that
(23:25):
on stage every night, like here's you know, this is
just throwing up for the ones that didn't make it
back home or whatever, and he's just like, I always
thought that would be a cool title. We just started
rolling with it and like wrote it in pretty quick
I mean probably three hours to three hours. Did you
write it and then record you have a whole set
up on I had a little rig on the bus,
so we're like, yeah, we we we kind of built
up the idea. He went and sound checked and then
(23:45):
I had it ready and he's saying it and do
you look for quirky words or lines and songs to
stick out to people? And I asked this because there's
one little phrase in that song that I can't not
seeing every time it comes on. Do you know what
it is? Um? I got a lot of texts about that. Yeah.
Like at first, I was like, and there have been
(24:07):
a lot of songs where you're we hear it and
you're like, well, that's weird. But then it's the it's
the part of the song that remains with you the most.
It sticks out, and it's also on its own. There's
a little pause before it, a little pause after. It's
just Green being Castro Green, Remember Green being Castle roll
Grandma's recipe, except nine steps higher. Obviously it's and it's
all it's very visual, Yeah, exactly, exactly. Well is that
(24:29):
something did you guys teeter around without at all? Like
I don't know how do we leave this in? Did
it feel quirky at the time? It was not at all,
Like it was just kind of like, all right, what
you know, we've all kind of had some experiences, whether
it be personal or from through friends whatever, of you know,
something tragic happening like this, So like what really happens
in these small towns? And how can we just make
it just authentic and real? And that was just I
think that might have been a justin thing that he
(24:51):
just said, and just we just wrote it down and
rolled we we we never like, especially for that song,
we didn't sit down and we were like, what is
what is going to make people this or that? We
just for a song like that, you really have to
just write it from just authentic experience. I feel like
Sam has some of those two in his songs um
especially a body like a back road like hips like honey,
(25:13):
here's a couple of those little quirky things too. The
first time you hear you go, oh that, I don't
know if that and then it's the really the only
thing you remember that the thing you remember. I never
know if those are like a lot of those things
are like emphasized on purpose or if it's just like
happens to be the thing that bus into that that's one.
This one was definitely not we we we. We weren't
like picturing like hashtag green bean cast role trending on
(25:34):
Twitter or anything like. This was like just like a song,
like we were just trying to do the right You know,
when you finished this whole thing and the song and
you you recorded, you did a rough demo on the bus,
do you think I think we may have something here
with that one? Um? Because a lot of songs right, um,
(25:55):
but I think just based off the energy, especially like
being in with the artist, like I write a lot
of I write song every day with a lot of
writers and this and that. You know, you're lucky if
you get a couple of year that do anything. But
like when we're with you know, when you're with the
artist and he kind of falls in love with something
as you're doing it and it comes out really organically
and everyone's fired up, that's kind of like, okay, this
could you know, this could be the thing? Do you
(26:17):
a bit hope to get on with these artists right
about the time they start recording, because you know these artists,
the things they cut closer to their record they're more
passionate about, and they because it's so hot in their minds,
you tend to see a lot of those last minute
cuts get on. Is that ever a strategy with you?
That is the thing, that's a strategy? I think that's
(26:37):
more so I'll think about that with like pitching stuff.
If it's like, you know, none of us have an idea. Really,
let's look at the pitch you who's cutting next month?
Like yeah, okay, I mean that's an obvious one. But
I feel like as far as artists stuff, like whatever
whenever we get in with the artists is the best,
and whatever they are feeling and works out works out.
We I don't really try to like strategize it too hard.
I try. I feel like for me with being creative
(26:58):
and writing, forcing anything too much doesn't really work. Like
even just pitching in general, if it's like, all right,
let's write that Tim McGraw this thing that he really needs,
like I always failed. Interesting unless I try to write,
like just try to write the best song in the
room that day, I forced everything I should really How
not to what's the story that? How? How did they
get around to Dana sha Um? Well? That was the
(27:21):
last rite of the year in fourteen or something. It
was actually me and Kevin were rented a house out
and out here in Nashville. UM, and we had to
write with Adam and we texted him in the morning,
Hey we're still on He's like, oh, man, I didn't
have you written down today. Um, I'm about to head
home to Arkansaw. UM. He's like, I have like two
hours if you want to come by. And we were
like should we even do this or should we just
(27:43):
call it? But like, all right, we'll come by. And
we wrote this thing like an hour and a half.
It was crazy and we were just like feeling it
the whole time. And we had it for a little bit.
I think Rascal Flats had an on hold for like
a year that long. I think they had on hold
for a long time holding a second hostage. Yeah. Um.
And we always knew the song was special and we
(28:04):
were just kind of like waiting for the right you know,
are they going to do this or not? And I
don't remember if they were like kind of like we're
letting it go or didn't really care whatever, But um,
at some point my old manager, Rohan who now works
at UM Warner UM he you know, I've been friends
with Dan forever and Rose worked with Dan forever and
all that. So Dan was going to the studio and
(28:26):
they had an open slot for another song to cut,
and Rose sent a handful and that and how Not
To was one of them. Dance like I really liked this,
and they cut it in the last slot, and then
he afterwards, I guess kind of found out that I
had written it, which is cool because we're friends. He
didn't know, that's what. Yeah, I don't think he knew, um,
which is a cool little layer two it that he
wasn't just like, oh my buddy, Paul. It was kind
(28:47):
of a natural thing. Um. And they cut it and
then like as time went on, everyone's like, hey, people
are really digging this. It might be a single. And
that's usually the death Wish where it's never gonna be
a single, but lo and behold it got singled. And
that was my first My first one did a lot
for me. Death Wish that one. And when they name
a tour after a song, is that the death Wish to?
(29:07):
I never paid two much attention to that. Yeah, if
they come out and they're like this is the we're
butt boys tour, You're like, well, we we're bub boys.
Never gonna be a single because they name that. It's
never gonna be That's never gonna be a song. And
I've been sitting on it's on holds on hold. They've
had this song on hold for a year. Yeah, I'm
hoping in their their last tour here they finally released
what's the what's the paycheck? Like that? What's the the
(29:29):
difference in writing a number one song as a songwriter
and a producer? Um different, It's one significantly more than
the other. Yeah, I mean production, Like I said, like
I like doing that. It's a more constant thing for
the brain. And also because like you you figure out
a rate in the beginning to get paid per song
and then you get you know, you get paid for
playing on it and like points and all that stuff.
But it's not it's nothing like but the points on
a number one that you produced is nothing like this songwriter,
(29:51):
If you're one third of that, it's not the same. No,
much better to be a songwriter. So the producer is
a guaranteed check and the song rider is an investment totally.
So it's it's almost like a diversifying more my portfolio
by doing both at the same time. I guess you
could say, are you producing anything right now? Jordan's second record?
Right now, I'm doing Jordan Davis. How's that working out good?
(30:14):
Do you have any more hits in him or not?
He's we're done. I think we're done. It sounds like crap,
it's kind of it's just we're not no, no, it's
it's awesome. It's going good. We're kind of just um
and we've just been cutting a few every month and
just um, you know, it's been going awesome. He's he's
the best. Love working with him. What's up are you?
And Dan? You guys have been boys for a while, Dan,
Dan Smyers and Danaans. He is a psychopath. Love him,
(30:35):
love him, and it's it for me. It takes one
to no one. And I see just how he prepares,
and I go, oh, I feel bad for you because
I stuffer from the same thing, just control. And it's
a double edged sword. He he just cannot turn it off.
And it's I mean, it's obviously working out, as you
saw last night on the Grand May and I love
(30:55):
that it's working for him, like I root for those guys.
So I'm like emotional when I see them to legs
because I'm just rooting for him so hard. It's like
watching a hustler, get it. I mean, listen, there are
a lot of talented people in this town. There's a
lot of really talented people in this town. But that
line is so thin that it's whenever you see someone.
Because they were doing Tuesday, Wednesday Thursday night shows as
(31:17):
a country, act themselves in small places, like I was
watching them hustle like that build their fan base five
years ago. I have a picture from south By, Southwest,
Me and I think their lawyer or someone were the
only two people and it was just them to some
built in band and two people in a completely empty place.
(31:38):
And now they're doing two nights in our What's funny
is that's like only the halfway point of the story
because he had been doing like the whole pop rock thing.
Like we'd crossed past a million times way back in
the day, so like we we've been on the road
in like two thousand and six seven, He's been grinding forever.
It's not like you just like wrote two songs. It's like,
oh cool, yeah, I'll do a record deal. It's like
he's been fighting. Wouldn't that be cool if we got
to do two songs and talk like that in that
(31:59):
voice and get ord deal? Yeah, like that went that
got a record? That you get one? That would my
mom a star. That's what I'm hoping for. B l
G again. We'll write two songs tonight. I don't even
care if the song suck, We'll do it on the show.
They will. We're washed up man. Yeah, big stars. Tr
L performing TRL Time Square that was always a big
(32:20):
I know I'm dating me though too, because that was
a big deal to me to watch that, To watch
t r L in Times Square. That was when I
wasn't high school in college. That was like the mecca
of what you could do. That's probably a pretty big
deal for you guys. I think that was the craziest.
I used to run home from school at three pm
or two or whatever it was and watched that every day.
(32:41):
Carson Daley was the guy on TRL. Was he when
you played there? When we did it? It was was Damien?
Was that his name? Okay? It was him? Um right,
I don't brown. That was a big fan of guy
good looking, good looking at yeah, um, but yes it was.
That was the coolest thing. We did it, like man,
(33:03):
we did like four times too. I think we had
videos retired on t r L, meaning they've been on
so long that they had to go. You gotta pull
the plug on this one. We gotta pull it out.
And I think back to like Corn, Like remember that
Corn video with the bullet going like stuff like that. Yeah,
there we go. I go back to those and I'm thinking, like,
we're in the same spot. Those were when I was
like thirteen or whatever. You grew up in Boston. Are
(33:25):
you big Pats fan? I am? Did you get a
PATS tattoo? Recently? I didn't you. Did you get what
you can a tattooed? You get what your tattoo? My
new one is this one? What is that an eagle?
It is? What is that for? UM? I like it?
And that's good. It's got initials UM for. This book
called The Obstacle is the Way one of my favorite books.
(33:46):
I love it, and I love the concept, and I
love the whole the whole stoic mentality and that it's
just like I will never get sick of that. And
every time I look at it, I just think of, like,
I don't know, I just keep moving forward. The thing
you're trying to get around is the thing you need
to just through one of my favorite five books of
the past ten years. And the great thing about that
book too, it's not intimidating because it's about it's then,
(34:08):
and it's a lot of stories and the whole premise
is the thing that's driving you the craziest is what's
making you successful. Like the the ability to figure out
how to get around what's in your way. Is that
is that that ends up making you what you are.
So you should be grateful for your struggle because that
struggle is what makes you successful. A lot of it
(34:29):
was like everyone's always like, all right, once I get
through these next three months and this is in place
and I have this much in the bank, I'm gonna
do what I Really it's like, no, this is your
life right now. You're actually living your life. So if
you if you keep deferring it, you're never going to
be living your life. I just love stuff. I'm not
like a crazy like public speaker person like motivational speaker thing,
but I just like certain But I'll always read one
(34:52):
of those at a time and they just like fire
me up. Have you read what I'll ask you what's
your favorite book? Because it's hard. The books are like
Netflix shows. As you think about this is that there's
so many great ones and that it's hard to get
on the same page with all the shows now. And
it's like if you read this note, let this note,
if you watch this show. No like Cheer, you watch Cheering.
It's great to show in my lifetime. So here we are.
(35:13):
Do you have a favorite book? Probably the book of
Cheer before that they made the show out of. Yeah,
I like the novel was incredible, it was a great Yeah,
the graphic novel. Yeah, uh probably. Honestly, the Hobbit was
the first book I read as like a novel that
like changed my life, like just like the fictional thing,
and I was like, wow, this is like art, this
is incredible. Interesting. Stay on fiction for a second. Let's
(35:37):
go down the lanes. I like somebody that reads books,
like talking about books. Um, okay, continue talking about the Hobbit,
but don't go to nonfiction yet. So you love the
Hobbit because it was just the first thing I read that, Like,
you know, there's always a point and some people never
got out of it where you have to read books
in school and some people are just like I'll never
read a book the rest of my life. And then
there's always that turning point where you're like, wow, this
(35:58):
thing is this is all about I books are cool
or they can be cool. And that was the first
one where I was like, there's more to it than
just like trying to please my teacher and like I
want to just watch TV instead of this kind of
thing for you. And that was the one and I
was probably I don't even know, probably like thirteen or
fourteen or something. I just ripped through it, loved it.
It's fun. I don't read a lot of fiction, but
when I find something that is that is fiction and
(36:21):
as good, it's like the greatest dessert. And so because
I am a big reader and I've written a couple
of books, I love books so much. I like to
I like to read about people because I like to
read people's mistakes and go, oh I I relate, or okay,
that's I can learn about that. I think I learned
a lot through my mistakes. Most of what I learned
through my mistakes and through others too. And I don't
(36:43):
look at other mistakes to go I'll those idiots. I
go oh, I probably have done that too. What can
I learn from their experience? Um? But on the fiction
side of it, because it took me a while to
not take myself so seriously to read fiction once I
read the freaking Hunger Games. You read the Hunger Games books?
I didn't know I watched. No, don't blasphemy to only
watch them and not read them. Did you watch them? Yeah?
(37:04):
And and they were good. They were good, Yes, But
the books are better. They always are because you invest
weeks into a book, right, and you get two and
a half hours with Jennifer Lawrence and all that. That's
pretty good. Yeah. And the movies were good, but were good.
I remember reading the books? Maybe that or what was
the book? Tom Hanks ended up doing the movie of
the the Mona Lisa when the before the da Vinci
(37:28):
COO blew up. That book was everywhere when it was
so great. I should probably read that. But you've seen
the movie, so you know how it ends. I have
not seen the movie. O. Great, you'll love it. And
it's cliche now to say the DaVinci Code. When I
read it and it had just been Dan Brown had
just written it, I think I believe you, right, I
believe it. I was like, this is the great because
(37:48):
here's what I liked about it is it was a
fictional story, but they had so much reality in it,
and you're learning about art and all of that. All
the settings were real, but there's also a story weaved in,
and I was like that, it's great that and that's
the most have to read, the most too cliche books,
you could say, but it doesn't matter. I agree, it
(38:10):
does not matter what it what it seems like. Actually,
I read fiction a lot because I read a nonfiction book.
You know Tim Ferris, I know who he is. I
read a book of his and he was talking about
how fiction before bed is like the best thing to
just like meditatively disconnect you from the world and help
you fall asleep. So it's like I used to be
(38:31):
reading these like life self help you kind of books
like Morning Night and like before I bet my my
gears are still turning. And once he said that I
read like five pages of a book before bed at
night and I just passed out. It's awesome that works
for you, huh. I mean I'm a good so I
can fall asleep, and I could fall asleep on this
table if I want to the opposite fall asleep. I'm
(38:51):
like very for because I know a lot of people
like that. I'm very fortunately. Any time after like eight pm,
if I lay down, it's all over nonfiction. Favorite book. Um,
probably obstacles away, I have to say, because I did
get the tattoo. That's true. Um, you have it marked
on your body forever. So I gotta hope that author
doesn't do any like go off the rails and do
(39:11):
anything stupid, because but it is on a banner. You
could always I could change what that means. Oh yeah,
it could be like it could be like the Ostridges
the and then never say what it means. I don't
I'll write that book. Um. I just read this book
called The Indifferent Stars above which the title got me
on its own. But it's about the Donner Party. Um,
if you're familiar with it, like that party that moved
(39:33):
from the Midwest go hoping to go to California in
the eighteen fifties or whatever, and they left too late
and they got caught in a snowstorm up in these mountains,
and basically months went by and they were living off
of like they had like a they ate all their
like oxes or whatever was pulling the horses and all
that stuff, and they ended up like taking their skin
and boiling and water and eating that brought like they
(39:55):
were all just starving to death and they ended up
resorting to cannibalism. And it's very well documented and they
talk about it in The Shining a little bit, so that.
I love The Shining, I love the movie. The book, um,
and that kind of got me like interested, So I
bought the book thinking, Okay, this is cool, this is
gonna be gruesome and crazy. But the actual story of
it and the facts and it tells it in a
(40:15):
way that you can relate to these people as if
they're people in your life, it's unbelievable. So that's just
really like, I just finished that. It was one of
the best books I've ever read. Right now, I'm reading
this second Mark Manson All Hope is ft because I
read the first one. Oh um, the subtle art, which
is which is great. I'm read. Yeah, I'm reading the
second one now. Pretty good, pretty good, capitalizing on the
(40:39):
first one a little bit or a little bit, just
just running with it a little more. Um, I do
like it. I also do this thing, why read multiple
books and once and a reading together too. And I'm
also reading Hillbilly Elergy, which Adam Hamburg gave me, which
I never read. Him just was talking about that there.
He was like, you got to read it. We went
to watch Arkansas game, so he gave it to me.
I'm reading that. I'm reading the Ben Folds biography because
I love Ben Folds. UM. And then my favorite book,
(41:03):
and it's was written in the late eighteen hundreds. But
have you read How to Win Friends and Influence Others?
I'm very familiar, but I have not actually sat down
with it. Great. It's great in the way that most
of it still holds up today and it was written
a hundred years ago, is it? What is it like?
A little bit of the style of it is like, well,
a lot of the references, the references right are like
not like today yesterday, Churchill said, And you're like, what
(41:25):
that wasn't yesterday. So there's some of that. But I
read that once a year, so that there are two
books I read every year that um, How to Win
Friends and Influence Others? And I messed up the title,
and then I um every year I read um the
Four Agreements. I read that. No, I don't Oh, it's
(41:45):
so short. It'll change you for like a week, It'll
change you. So that's why you read it every year.
It's great. It's like, the thing that I take from
it is, don't sell it real quick. To me. Well,
first of all's really short. So even if you invest
in if bad, it's over and you're like, well, Bobby's
an idiot, you get into it the rest same reason
I got in to cheer, like I'm gonna show them
how much it sucks. I'll read I look at that. UM.
(42:09):
Never take anything personal in business ever, ever, And there's
a whole thing about that, because we work and we're
alongside people, we're running parallel, we're crossing with and we're
taking a lot of things personal. But we don't know
where people are coming from, we don't know why they're
doing it, we don't know their scenario. We're just seeing
everything from ours. And so that is something that is
just you read it and it really does adjust for
(42:30):
a while how you handle all of your relationships. Um,
but it's sure if you do read it, let me know.
You can read it in two days. It's like that
kind of that kind of book. I read the Notebook
in one day. That's fiction I read and loved, except
it's not fiction in my heart. I didn't read it.
Did you not know? In the beginning? The notebook that
(42:50):
what that? It was them in the end. In the
beginning I read it when I was like nineteen, I No,
I didn't. I'm an idiot. One of my friends brought it.
Why I read it one day? I didn't put it down.
I'm not a big Are you a big guess? Or
when you start something, do you guess what's going to
happen later? Do you try to? Yes? Because I spend
too much time doing that, And then I get two stores.
(43:13):
I'm chasing two different stories in the real kind? Which
one of my on? It's like which one ends up
being better? Usually though the one they wrote okay, yeah,
mine usually has an alien or talking about dogs. I
can explain a lot that plot hole. So those those books,
I feel like some of them make me feel better
(43:33):
only when I'm reading them, and some of them I
actually take things from. And that's the big difference for
me with like those like I keep saying self help,
that's it's like a dated term for them, but like
I don't know, enhanced life productivity books whatever, you want
to call them. So I wrote one of those, right,
and it well, But I call mine a motivational book.
That's that's a really good way. I don't even know
(43:54):
if that's a term that is that that makes more sense,
But I would say my my second one is called
fail until You Don't is a motivational book. But I
don't take offense. I don't think it's self help. Well,
not not even offense. It's just I just feel like
the connotation with self help is kind of like, hey,
you're definitely wrong with you, but we do well, except
we don't. Because if everybody hasn't wrong with him, nobody
(44:15):
has anything wrong with the If everyone is broken, no
one is broken, because there's no such thing as broken.
If universally we're all the same and broken, that's not broken.
So no matter what motivate, you can motivate your motivational
the book's motivational. There we go me the book. Instead
of saying it's it's it's help for being broken, it's
you're motivating whether you're broken or not. Boom, Yes, But
(44:37):
I don't think we're broken. No, we're not, except we
all are, which makes none of us we're not. But
we totally therapist hates me sometimes because I'll go in
to be like, but here's the thing, Like what you
what were you philosophizing to right now? You're paying me
a hundred and twenty five bucks an hour to be
a philosophy. Um, so you are a Pats fan, I
(44:58):
am like big, So I'm gonna predict what's happening with
Tom Brady and this is this is gonna live forever.
So you're you're on the record here right now. The
day is January. We're recording this. We don't know where
Tom Brady is going to go, but being a Pats fan,
where does he spend his final year or two? I
spend maybe an hour every day thinking this through, and
(45:19):
I come to a definitive conclusion of what's going to happen.
And then a little tidbit pops up on my phone
and I question everything. I don't know if I can guess,
do you. I'm gonna just do it for sport. You
don't have to. I'll guess and you can tell me
if you agree or not. I think I don't think
there's any way he leaves New England this year. I
think they put some weapons around him. I think you
stay because I don't think he goes to San Diego.
They can't win. I don't think he goes to Oakland.
(45:40):
He's not going to Indianapolis. I think you just start
peeling away his options. He's not going to Dallas and
so so do you think he's doing all this talk
just to play mind games and hope he gets what
he wants in New England? He was probably open if
teams today. Again, this could really bit me in the
butt because we're just talking about this life. Like the
(46:01):
charger said today, we're not going back to Phil Rivers.
And so he already moved, has already moved to Florida.
I heard right, and and today officially they're like but
to be fair, Brady packed his crap up and moved
out of his house too, But I heard conflicting stories
on that. If you really and his trainer moved too,
I know there's a lot. It's it's dark, and I
like the Patriots, like I didn't go in Boston like
you did. But I like teams that win and and
(46:23):
continue winning, and teams sometimes they don't like them for
a couple of years. There's like a threshold when I'm
like Okay, we get it. You're you're good two or
three years, but after you get like four or five years,
I'm like, oh, just respect now, like I respect the
fact that you can continue win. I think he stays,
and I think that Robert Kraft probably goes. We don't
want him to retire anywhere else. He's seriously looking. He
(46:44):
probably really looking. But I think they put a copy.
You can't just throw it to one Edelman. But he
wants more money and we're already paying like our defensive
ton I think, and we have like a bunch of
other like Antonio Brownson needs to get paid, and there's
all these weird things, and then I'm in jail, and
(47:04):
then I'm afraid of like this, remember this filming thing
that them getting and recently like if they get if
he leaves. Let's just say, let's put it this way.
If Brady leaves and the filming thing comes down and
we lose like a first round pick, or I'm going
to just stop watching football. That's where I'm both hit
you in the balls at the same time. Brady, I'm
so afraid it's gonna hit one weekend and I'm just
(47:25):
gonna be like I just gonna start watching rugby. But
the Bengals they were filming sin Sanatie if I'm going
from memory right, yes, which makes even less sense, but
keep going right, and I believe the Bengals organization, and
it all came out that they weren't really filming. Did
you see the video that they got leaked of it? Though?
What did it look like they were filming? It didn't
(47:46):
look good at least not the astros. You could be
an astros. That's worse. I'm glad that's taking the heat
of all of it right now. That's bad. That's really bad.
The mic, the your piece and the thing, the buzzer,
the whole thing. Remember remember I remember what's that the
short dude when he hit the home RN he was
holding this thing that is incriminating. He's running. That's the
(48:07):
Netflix documentary already on that. He's like, don't tell much,
don't tell because he's got of When when he did that,
I was like, that's weird. Is he's just superstitious or well?
What he said was his you know, he's very modest.
I know what he said. I'm not buying any of that.
Did you write today I wrote today? Anything good? Uh? Yeah,
(48:31):
it's cool, we're we haven't finished it yet. I like,
I like taking my time this year. This year is
my don't just rush to get a song done year.
Not that I do that normally, but we're gonna We're
gonna finish another day and make it the best that
it can be. What's right? What's it to you? Like?
What's the goal? Um? Just um, just keep rolling and
(48:52):
use the good energy and like another thing from a
book that the twenty rule. Are you familiar with that?
Like you get eighty percent of your benefits basically from
t of your whatever you do kind of thing. Um,
So I'm just trying to find what that of my
life is that's the most productive and just focus on that.
I kind of can sometimes get lost and like his
song might not be that great, but I'm really determined
(49:14):
to make the demos sound better. So the song, it's
just like I gotta cut ties with things that aren't
perfect and just work on what is the best focus?
Maybe that's the word. Any goal, like specific goal you'd
like to hit this year? Trop of that triple you
get that that they all three number one? I would
I don't really look at things in terms of that.
I've I've never been a big planner of like my
(49:36):
one year plan, my five year plan ten. I've never
been that kind of guy. I've always just on a feeling.
Like I joined the band on a whim. I I skipped,
I left high school early. I joined it. That worked
out for me. I I felt the need to move
to l A. I felt they need to move to Nashville.
Just always have done the thing and followed kind of
my passion and found what I need. So, um, not
any big like. I mean, I could say I want
(49:57):
like ten number ones this year. That's a cool goal,
but like, don't really look at it in terms of that.
All right, let's let's recap what we've learned. We've done
a lot. We've talked books. And you have a tattoo
of a book. I think that is a bad A
tattoo of someone reading a book where oh she is
reading a book that I don't know. Interesting. Um, So
(50:20):
we talked books, we talked Patriots. If Brady leaves and
you lose a first rounder or are find a bunch
of money, that's just my depressed minds. You're gonna I
know we're good. I love Brady, I love the Pats.
They owe me nothing. They've done everything for me at
the best childhood growing up watching that, I'm good love them.
Would you rather the Pats win a Super Bowl and
have to vacate it or not win one at all,
(50:42):
win it and have to give it back? Not that,
not win at all. We're good. We're good, clean slate
if if all we get is this, we have a
little dark period for a while. I'm fine with that
famous last words. Until you're deep in the dark period,
I know then it's I've lived a dark Perido's back
football fan hard, I've lived in the dark period. I
vicariously lived through that because I think about Adam every
(51:04):
time it's on and Justin Moore. All of us are
big we I mean, I can feel. I can't feel
for you, but I can understand a little bit, So
I'm sorry. We all go to games together like that's
a tight knit group of where they I don't. I'm
not a big college person. They were good like what
years ago? Right, well were they ever? Like dominant in
the sixties? We want a national championship and then we
(51:26):
did pretty well in the Southwest Conference back when we
were te toddlers. We were very close with Bob Patrino.
We're one game away from the national championship. And then
he got in trouble for hooking up with the girl
that worked with him. Dude beat him up that worked
in the administration because that was his fiancee. The whole
thing he got run out, program started over. We haven't
been success. Is that worse or is cheating in the
(51:47):
game worse? I believe there's cheating in the game at
all points, all the time. So when it comes out,
it's just everyone was doing it kind of thing. We
are caught. We did. I wish we would cheat more.
I would be honest, because we still I'd like a
little cheating. If it leaves with a little victory, I'll
take it. It works, Yeah, okay, I see, I see that.
I know, and then let the haters hate. I get
(52:09):
I have no winning. We're the greatest sports and that sucks.
I don't like being a good sport. I like money sometimes.
Um so, and we're gonna get boys that goes back
together and you're gonna play on the morning show. Love that.
Um I'm gonna take two because probably you think me
(52:30):
taking two percent? You guys an ba together the first one, No,
no, no no, no, no, no, the original first one love
love that and Mike, anything else that we learned here today,
I feel like we've got a good one. Anything else.
You don't make as much money producing as writing a
hit song, but you do make more money producing than
writing a song, because most songs you write you don't
(52:52):
get any money for. Yeah, it's it's all the numbers game.
But this this job, you gotta do it for the past.
You gotta do it for the love. If I only
cared about money, I would have done something else said
I truly it sounds cheesy, but I really love waking
up and just seeing what happens every day. I really
do love it. Look you sound like Russell Dickerson. That
guy wakes up and it's like the world is great. No,
I don't mean alright. I usually wake up and Michael,
(53:15):
I have to do this all over again, Russell. I
love that guy. He wakes up and it's like he's
got he's got energy. Yeah, it's amazing. I also, Mike,
just send me this note to the bold type has
a ninety percent rating on Rotten Tomatoes. Dude, crazy right,
Yeah that's high. That's yeah, that's extremely high. And tell
Katie said, hello, I will all right, there we go.
(53:35):
This has been a good one episode. And follow Paul
Paul b LG on Instagram and Twitter. Paul b LG
on Instagram and Twitter. And as long as you're b LG,
it's always a lie, it's a lie. It's always breathing,
because boys, that girl is always right there my fingertips, Hey, Mike,
would you before would you give me a little more
of the Great Escape? I want to hear it back
(53:57):
to my ears out here and on my board's dead.
Oh well, I will sing it there forget. Yes, little
I'm gonna blow. I got to go on the air
tomorrow with a blowing boy. Alright, Episode five. Thank you
very much. We'll see you guys next time.
Host
Bobby Bones
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