#306 - Brothers Osborne on their Radio Success vs. Ticket Sales + Why TJ Decided To Tell His Story + John on Taking a Break from Music for Mental Health - Bobbycast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
M. Welcome to episode three or six. It's a fantastic
episode with brothers Osborne. They talked about it all radio success,
ticket sales, t J telling his story John taking a
break from music for mental health. I love these guys,
love this talk. I thought I'd be pretty good because
I know him. Ended up being great. I hope you
guys get a lot from this. So that's coming up

(00:21):
in a second. But as always, let us do the
top five releases. I am most excited about this week.
Number five. Nico Moon released a new song called small Town,
State of Mind. Stay in my smalltown, Stay of Mind,
small time, Stay in my smalltown, Stay in mind, good
friends in the bottle of time. Whenever you roll up

(00:43):
right on side that small time, stay in my small
town Stay. Charlie Warsham released his Sugarcane EP. Here's a
new song called hang on to that Time Instinct Times

(01:12):
as you can hang. At number three, Dustin Letch he
did put out two new songs, once called not Every Cowboy,
and here's a clip of one that he played on
my Twitch show on Time with Bobby Bones. It is
Pasadena leven passive d we to we can find out

(01:34):
where Stool found just we were needed right there and passid.
Dan and Shay announced they're releasing a new album called
Good Things, and today they also released the title track.
Here is a clip of Dan and Shay Good Things

(01:57):
Still if You'll n God friends so bad? When you
make me I Love you? Thank and number one would
like if awaiting my whole life for this. John Mayer

(02:20):
recently released his new album, saw Rock. It's his first
new album in four years. And by the way, even
those albums four years we weren't real albums. They were
just not that many songs, you know. Here is a
new song called why you Know Love Me? Why are
you Know Love? Why are you know Loving? Why are

(02:42):
you know? Okay? Why you Know that Knows? Are the
five releases I am most excited about. This week music news,
Luke Combs released a trilogy. It's a Vine with Beautiful,
Crazy and Better together as a side a side b Uh.

(03:03):
There's Charlie Daniels Duets, which is Charlie Daniels and Friends.
It's a Walmart exclusive. It's Scott Garth and Dolly and
Paisley and Darius Brooks and Dunne. So that's out to
a little big Town's got music out. Cheryl Crowe released
strong Enough featuring Lucius Life from the Theater at the
Ace Hotel. Peloton apparently is the best paying music streaming service.
We talked about later in this show, like how much

(03:24):
are they making for Peloton? Brothers Osborne. I didn't know
this when I knew that, but who would have guessed it?
The person that I guess the organization that pays the
most is Peloton. They pay more per stream than any
popular music service. Based on a twenty nineteen report, Peloton
pays around three cents per stream, So there you go.
They made three cents from the time I heard you.

(03:46):
They've heard him twice, they made six cents off that.
Peloton's contribution to music isn't that much. It's kind of
probably why they can do it. I mean, if they
had a billion people riding bikes, but they'd be making
more money too. So Peloton is That's where it's at,
and that's where I listen to my music all the time.
When I go home, I just plugged in my Peloton
and put on a class. I don't only do the glass.

(04:07):
Vinyls Come Back is still going strong. Over nineteen million
vinyl albums were sold in the first six months of
this year. People kind of expected that to go away.
C MT is set to honor the late Charlie Pride
with a primetime special next month. CMT giants Charlie Pride
airs August. So there's that. Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame
class of one is announced. Toby Keith, Amy Grant, Ready,

(04:28):
Aikin's Buddy Cannon, and John Scott Cheryl All We're announced
to be in the Hall of Fame. Cold Play was
inspired by a caveman and then wants to perform on
the Moon. You know, they have new music out they
want to play in the moon with the problem is that,
you know, the moon's vacuum can't hear a sound up there.
So some people would say they'd love to hear cold
Play on the Moon. I do really like cold Play.

(04:48):
So and Rihanna is renting out her Beverly Hills mansion
for eighty thousand dollars a month. Holy moly, you can
stay in there for eighty thousand dollars a month twenty
dollars a week. That's three thousand dollars a day. Basically,
it's a lot. That is a lot. There you go
that's what's up, Brothers Osborne, that's next. Thank you guys

(05:10):
in studio now with Brothers Osborne, which I was on
my peloton. I don't know if either one of you
guys ride the peloton. I don't even have I bought one.
I don't. It looks great sitting in my house. But
you understand the concept. Get on the people on sometimes
your lives and I'm on and one of you guys
songs come on and I'm riding along to it. Do

(05:31):
you like, how does that deal get worked out? Because
they got a lot of trouble for playing everybody's music,
and now they can't play everybody's music. They can only
play some. We have no idea what's going on ever?
I mean, I don't, we don't know. I would wonder
about that, but it can't be like the most like
extravagant amount of money. No, No, just be probably the
same as a stream like point. That's what I'm thinking. Yeah, like, okay,

(05:53):
let's go after him so we can make seventy. Do
you know, I'm just like, just use it. I don't know.
But it was a nice mix of music. It was
like Drake and you could tell the girl was like
nineteen and blonde and you know, kind of bubbly, and
she was like, I just love Brothers Osborne. I didn't
believe her, not that you guys aren't able to be loved,
but she was going one after the other. It was like,

(06:14):
I'm big, I'm a big Drake fan. Oh this is
a little baby. I just love Brothers Osborne. And was
this just a good sounded song? No, it's probably just
a good sounding song. But that's what that's Our next
album's gonna be featuring a little baby featured on every
I don't even know, a little baby song I don't
know features with a little baby, a little baby, little baby.

(06:34):
Well there's all there's a little baby, and then there's
d baby. Don't get him confused, because if you do,
that's assaulting to both of them. Little baby, but I
just assumed did not say anyone's name. Ever, I don't
even do it in person. I wouldn't do it anymore.
Meaning if I were to just have seen you around
and I was like, I could think I know that

(06:55):
guy's name, but I'm not gonna bet. I don't even
know if I met him, and I'm not sure. Hey man,
good to see you again. Yeah, what's about it? To
see wrong with good to see you? You can't you
can't tell everyone our trade secrets here. No, this is
a Nashville trade seer that everyone knows about. And in fact,
the good to see It is a very the Nashville Hello,
because we we meet a lot of people here. We
see people every day, and you know, especially when they're

(07:16):
not in the right context, it takes your brain that
compartmentalizes things a second reality they are. And um, I
met Kenny Rogers, you know our I p I met
Kenney Rogers a few years ago and he did good
to see it to me, and I was like, that
is amazing for a multitude of reasons. One, he did
the Nashville Hello, the good to see you too. He
doesn't know if he's ever met me or not, so

(07:37):
he's so good to see you. Three, I am a
thousand percent sure I had never met Kenny Rogers. That's
awesome and he was super cool. I saw Mike Duncan,
there's a big deal here in town. I saw him
at like a grocery store and I my mind just
wouldn't put him in a grocery store. And I couldn't
remember who it was I've talked to him at thousand times.
I think he's been in here, yes, and I know him.

(07:59):
If I were to see at a show, I would
be like, Mike, what's up, buddy? Because we were near carrots.
I was like, I can't compute, thats not the same thing.
Have you guys played yet? Have you guys done shows?
We've done done some shows. We may yeah, we uh yeah.
It was our third We just finished our third weekend

(08:20):
out and it's been a lot of fun. We've a
couple of them have been festivals, which has been a
lot of fun. And then we just recently this past
weekend did some of our first like headline shows, um
and that's been really fun because we put a record
out last year and uh it's it's one. It's obviously
awesome to get back in front of fans again, but
it's also the first time that we've been able to
perform our new music to anybody and just kind of

(08:41):
see what they're responding to. And not to mention, we've
had some more singles out since last time we towards,
so being able to add those into the set. It's
been a lot of fun. And this year we know
some people wanted to like dial it back a little
bit and kind of get some of their money back
they lost through the panemic. We did the opposite. We're like,
let's lose more money. No, we we really try to
step our our lives, show up this this time around.

(09:04):
We always do. But obviously, as you grow, you're can
only grow as fast as your budget allows you to.
But this this time around, we were like, you know,
I think we just really wanted to put on a
show that just stood out from the rest. Considering everyone
is going back on tour right now. So I feel
really good about it. We've put a lot of work
into it, but I'm excited for for the fans, especially
the fans that have seen us dozen plus, you know, fifty.

(09:26):
Some of these people have seen so many shows on like,
how do you afford to do? I know, I feel
self conscious? And there's someone like there's a particular Katie
who I know we'll be listening to this at some point.
She has seen nearly a hundred shows, and it makes
you self conscious. You're like, you've heard the same damn
bit and routine a hundred times? How can you find
this interesting? I'm falling asleep up here. How can you

(09:48):
find this interesting? You know what's great about music, and
there's I mean a lot of great things. But as
opposed to what I do when I torn, I do
stand up, is that you guys can play. It ain't
my fault for ten years. Yeah, if I work hard
and I have the and I have a joke, and
I've got four or five of them, but I'll do
any I'll do a corporate gig steel because they they
did never can watch before. But if I write a
joke or I have a whole bit that's like three
or four minutes and I've just died, I've cut it,

(10:09):
just write dial, I got my my everything's down. Yeah.
I can do it once. Yeah, that's it. You can
never do it again. It is Although I have seen
some comedians and we've had uh some friends of ours
suit who go out and do that, and they will
do like one kind of like okay, there's all the
new material. I'm gonna do the greatest hit, Like here's
the one that really made me famous. And it's still

(10:30):
is funny when if you address it as the greatest hit,
nothing I've ever done it's been great. So I'm like,
there is a mediocre one that I worked out for
six months. The only time I've I covered even covered
a joke once. The first time that the opery hadn't
had a lot of comedians on for a long time
after because there was the whole nineties Boxworthy were stage

(10:52):
there and they just did like a whole reel of
the comedians and it was It's awesome, right, totally incredible.
I'm like, where is that so bringing it back? So
they had come to me. Sally Williams, who used to
run the operation, was like, hey, we really want to
get back into comedy and we know that one you're
funny too, you can emplement a little music, and three
you're clean. We don't have to worry about you. Because
I love the operation. My grandmother made me. I didn't

(11:13):
at first my grandmother made me. I was like seven,
I was like, why am I watching this over? But
but then you start have a real affinity. There's the
TV show for the operation now, and so the first
time I got to go on and do comedy, I
went up and I did my whole set eleven minutes.
You know, it's not like the operations a full half hour,
but eleven minutes. That's a long content. Yeah, I mean
I would normally do an hour right when I was
doing theaters, but I and it's also a weird crowd

(11:36):
because they didn't come to see me. Some of them
don't even know who I am, and some of them
are ninety they don't even know what I'm talking about.
It feels the same way. I mean, it feels the
same way for us when we play there. I mean,
I love playing it for a multitude of reasons, but
it can be a really hard crowd to play too.
And at the at the very end, it's the only
time I've covered a joke. It was I said, Hey,
I said, for all you guys out there, like this
is special for me because my whole life I watched

(11:58):
The Operation, or I listened to the Opera, depending on
when it was on TV on you know tien in
or I said, and my grandmother, who is not alive anymore,
and adopted me for a long part of my life.
I said this. Her favorite comedian was Jerry Clower, and
we would watch Jerry Clower on the opery that we've
watched him, and he seems like he was on every month.
And so I did my favorite Jerry Cloud joke and

(12:18):
I did it, and to me, even though I didn't
write that joke, that's the best freaking joke I've ever
told because it actually it meant something to me. Yeah, well,
you know what it's especially when you're a new artist
out and you've got and you start playing songs and
you get like your first single. It's kind of doing
something and then you cover Hey Williams and everyone goes
Bananas Park, you know, oh man. Yeah, well there's this

(12:40):
great UM special special called Talking Funny and it's like
Luisa k Jerry Seinfeld, Chris rock and head bass and um,
Jerry Seinfeld said something that for me kind of resonated
in a in a very strange way. Um. You know,
a musician will get up, we'll go up and play
a song, even if it's a new song. We have
three roughly three to four be five minutes and we

(13:01):
play the song right and then they decide whether it's
cool or not. Where As a musician or sorry a
a comedian, they're judged like every ten to fifteen seconds,
so and it can really go off the rails. So
if we do a song that was like wow, that
wasn't really much, Well, let's just do it in my
fault and we'll wring them back. A comedian, they're literally judged, judge, judge,
So it takes a lot of a lot of really
thought about that yet and once I feel like, once

(13:22):
a comedian loses the room, they very rarely get it
back unless unless and I'll say this because when I
will do a theater fifteen to two thousand people, right
and weren't a theater and they came to see me,
and I know the first ten minutes they're giving me
for free because they're just happy to be there. Yes,
I can go out and just be like, what's up everybody? Yeah,
they funny. There's always a mark between like eleven and

(13:46):
fifteen where you gotta start to earn, start to earn
that ticket. Sorry, And I will really hit him with
the hits, the moderately decent stuff around eleven and fifteen,
and then I'll start to sprinkle in some new stuff.
And when it doesn't work, I have the one crutch
that's comedians don't or I just grabbed my guitar and
I play a funny and you can hide behind a guitar.
You literally can't story in my life. I could literally

(14:12):
I want to talk about the genesis of the group. Um,
that's what because you guys haven't ever done this podcast
here before. But I do want to talk about the genesis,
which I know and obviously you guys know. But to
a lot of my friends who love your music from
kind of the outside edges, they're like, which one has
the beard, which one doesn't? But you have the beer too,

(14:33):
It's very obvious which one they're referring to when they
say beard. I like, have a very very you know,
tight beard situation, and John is so bearded that people
just automatically think that I'm clean shaved. Honest to god,
if you if I would have closed my eyes without
looking at you and said who has the beard? Who doesn't,
I would have bet money you didn't have a beard.
People say the clean shaven one, and I'm like, I
haven't shaved. Honestly, you guys watched the office at all.

(14:58):
They're debating if Stanley has a mustache. If you would
have done that with you and your beer, I would
have said you didn't have a beer. Okay, comparatively speaking, though,
if you were sitting there to Bobby, you would have
a beer. But you're sitting next to me, and his
is tightly, tightly shaven, mind's very loose beard. Let's go back, just,
let's go back to the beginning of just you guys childhood, Um,

(15:19):
and when you started to play music? Because John, you're older, correct,
how much older? Two and a half years? Does that
mean that you had two and a half years of
music before TJ ever started doing music? Not really, not really.
You know, our parents played in music and UM, it
was just always around UM, and we both I don't know.
I thought we both kind of got into it roughly
at the same time. Probably roughly, but you know, I think, um,

(15:41):
you know, really the thing that's kind of weird to
think about. I was thinking about this the other day.
Someone asked about your parents they play and I was like, yeah,
they do, And it made me think about really the
first time that both John and I really wanted to
learn how to play and learn how to contribute music
to any degree, it was simply just so we could
join the family, mainly our dad and our uncle and
our cousin who played, um, just at the kitchen table.

(16:04):
I was like, God, if I can, because they wouldn't
let us just come there and bang on a guitar
and make nonsense. That you were like, if you learn
how to play and you can come and play, then
do that. So we're like, oh man, I can't wait
to play at the kitchen table. That was like the
that was the mark. Um and so that and then
to really think about going this far, I mean you
kind of dream about that. I think every kid does,
you know, Um, but wow, I mean it's been such

(16:27):
a long way, but it's that was really kind of
the first thing that put that let the fire under us,
which just simply so we could just kind of join
the join the fai around the kitchen table. I remember
when I just started playing guitar, and I started when
I was around twelve or thirteen, and um, I all
I wanted to do was play around the table, like
he said, with her dad, our uncle Bill, and our
cousin Johnny. And they wouldn't let me because I had

(16:50):
to practice. And they were right, they said that we
want you to practice, and you can't just thumb around.
You have to be good enough to play. And then, um,
that gave that inspired me to actually to be good
enough to be able to play at the kitchen table
with everybody that was starting Another thing it was really
cool in that moment is both particularly our dad and
our uncle Bill had originals that you know, our uncle

(17:11):
Bill grew up in a band, um and uh he
was adopted at a at a young age and we
didn't get to um, my dad didn't even know him
until really later in life. And when they met each other.
They were both musicians and both wrote songs and all
the same guitars, the same sidebar the nature or nurture
ye who knows man, and a little bit of both.
I'd imagine really crazy though, I mean honestly they had

(17:33):
the exact same ovation and um, which is like funny
now like no one has an innovation, no, but um
so anyhow so that was the thing they would sit around.
They'd play, you know, they cover Bob Seeger songs or
could be George Jones and then they there in their
originals and always thought, man, it's so cool like to
have these original songs and um, they actually had some
really good material. I mean so that I'm like, man,

(17:55):
that'd be really cool. So was it the brother open
that door, Mike? It is pretty pretty ball's hot in here? Um?
Did was the thing where one brother picks up the guitar,
but then you're stuck with the bass. Not really, because
that happens a lot of families where the older brothers
playing the lead. It's all right, Sammy, Yeah, yeah. I
think it was like, you know, well, john splaying guitar,

(18:16):
and I'm like, I got a lot of work to
do to get up there. You keep doing that, I'm
not going to try to catch up to. You both
played a lot when when we were at kids, and
we both ended up playing the bass at the same time.
We actually I was the first like in our elementary school,
Deal elementary school. I was a member of the first
Deal Elementary Symphony Orchestra and it consisted of three violins.

(18:40):
It was me, uh, a girl named m Emma Barrett
was this is like a hundred years ago, and Dustin Dustin,
Dustin Reid or something like that, and it was three kids.
And I would just watch the video of it like
six months ago, and it sounded atrocious, so bad. You
can tell me really, you got ear plugs upon entry
when we got it's so bad. And then on we

(19:01):
both started playing the violin, and neither of us were
very good, and the reason why we ended up starting
we ended up on base because when we moved on
to like middle school and uh, the teacher saw that
we were tall. Basically, we're just taller than other kids,
and our hands were too damn big for the violin,
so he just put us on the base. Almost a
similar thing of life. Well, they needed big players, so

(19:22):
different big brother. They're like, we don't need we don't
need another crabby violin. It's like, please just go over
and then we are big hands. I was like, oh,
this is cool and word and actually side not any
musician it's listening will understand this. But a base is
uh is tuned similar to a guitar. There tune for
us in violence and fifth. So it made sense more
sense to me. So you're playing music in school, you're

(19:44):
playing music around the table. But did you two ever?
Because I know you didn't move to TJ. You didn't
move with John to Nashville. No, not the first not
a first note. So that wasn't the plan for you. Guys.
When you're sixteen, we're gonna be a dude. We're gonna
be a duo, the greatest little of all time. Well
that was our mom's plan. Now, she had a plan
with with our sister Natalie. I believe you've met her.

(20:06):
She's she's wonderful. I feel like she should run from
mayor of Nashville because everyone knows her quite all the time.
People are like, oh, wow, you're Natalie's brother, and I'm like,
what do I have to do? Get some you know
exactly anyhow. But um, so originally my mom her plan
was that it would be John and I and Natalie,
and that I would get on the microphone. I would say, Hey,

(20:28):
I'm t J Osborne. I would say, and I'm John Osborne.
And now they would say I'm Natalie Osborne. And together
in unison we would say and we are the siblings.
That was my mom's grand plan. And so we were like,
we're going to stay far away from that idea. And
so John came down. Was in a band called Kingbilly
that had a lot of traction at the time, and um,
a lot of amazing musicians and songs and in that band,

(20:52):
and I was kind of doing my solo thing. Um.
We were in a family band with her dad called
Do Center Quarter. In fact, have a tattoo of my
left arm that says two to five. A lot of
people want to know what it means it's simply just
a car ubic electra um And so our family band
was named after that. And then you moved here. First
I did, Yeah, how far I had to teach um?
It was a little kind of staggered. UM. So I

(21:14):
went to Belmont and I started in two thousand and
then I want to say, you came in around two
thousand and one or two, something like that. And yeah,
so then you moved down here before you graduate, graduated
high school. Ended up going to high school here for
like a year or two, moved back to Maryland to graduate.
The funny part about took me five years, so I

(21:35):
know the math. I can see you wherever there, Bobby,
you're like five. He loved high school so much he
stayed stayed around for extra year. And the kicker there's
I hated it so much that I didn't that I
wasn't that attentive. So then it added an extra year.
So I really like showed myself. They're like so much,
you're getting an extra year of it. It is backwards,

(21:55):
isn't it. The more you love school, the less you
have to do. It doesn't make sense. So the um
but the kind of side note, so when I was
eighteen when moldteer TJ. So it was an eighteen or
nineteen something like that. When I was a Bellmont t
J had come to live with our mom and Nashville
for a short period of time. But um, I had
a dorm room like a triple at Bellmont, which was
like unheard of, and my two roommates like dropped out

(22:18):
right before the semester started, and I had this huge
room to myself. It was amazing. And t J would
have come just like sleep, you know, in the dorm room.
And if we would go to like a Bellmont party,
which at those days, and you'd be lucky if there
was like four people and that was a Bellmont party.
And um, t J. They all thought he went to
school because he always had this idea. It was like sixteen, everyone,
what's your major? And I would just tell them music

(22:39):
business because I know no more questions would like boring,
and um yeah, So he moved back and I was
still like, I changed my major a bunch of times.
Actually started in base um, because I got a scholarship
and my parents were like, if you played bass, there's
a lot more work for bass players. There's too many
guitar players. Which is another interesting side note there is

(23:00):
John was an incredible upright basis. I mean he actually
went to Bellmont Wanta Basse Scholarship, played the big yeah
yeah like flipping stuff. He played by glass with the
Bottomore like the Bottomore Symphony. Even um they would have
this where they would get kind of the top chair
people in the state to come join them for some concerts.

(23:21):
And John was, you know, it was one of the
one of the kids they picked out on high school
to come up and play with the Botmom Symphony, playing
up right basis. Thank you. I was told total nerd,
but that's what I did, and um, but I didn't
love it, you know. So when I went to school,
I was like, man, I just I'm not loving this thing.
I really want to play guitar, kind like you're talking
about Grand of Opry and you were kind of made
to watch it and that took you a minute to

(23:41):
love it. That's how we were with the bass and
then um, eventually I I changed my major to guitars.
I love, I really enjoy playing. This is where my
heart is. And then I swish my major us a business,
wish it back to guitar. And I'm like, man, I'm
like four years in, I've got like five hundred hours
or credits later. I I there's no way i want
to graduate. And I'm already like doing it. I'm getting

(24:02):
calls to go play. I'm traveling, you know, four hours,
making like a hundred bucks and being like this is great.
And UM, so I've bailed from school. But around that time,
t J came back after he graduated high school, and
then that's when we both moved here. So he had
mentioned this band, King Billy that I was in. Um,
one of my best friends from college, Josh Matheny, who's

(24:24):
played on like a bunch of hit records as a
recent as great debro player. Um, we joined a band.
Charlie Worsham was in that band, and a bunch of
other really really great musicians. Um, and we end up
getting a publishing deal. T J and I at the
time had been writing a lot of songs off to
the side. The King Billy, the band I was in,
cut a few of those songs. So he got signed
to the publishing deal to the same publishing company. About

(24:47):
a year or two later. Quickly what happened because now
King Billy lives in like Everyone's Mind is one of
the greatest bands that should have been massive because of
the success of this individual char Yes, and so everyone's
like I saw them once. It was the summer. I mean,
it's like this legacy. It was an incredible band. I
mean I remember it was like, yeah, it was the

(25:08):
show to go and see what would happen? Why did
it not happen? I guess, you know, I don't know.
I could give I could try and give you a
hundred reasons as to why things do and don't happen
in this industry, and I would probably be wrong every time,
And so much of it is just being around the
right people at the right time the right songs. I
mean I listened to the songs. I'm like, yeah, they
were really really good songs, and some of them really great,

(25:30):
but maybe they just weren't, you know. I think we
were pretty musico about things like we're all like way
too smart for own good when it when it came
even the term music, I think it's probably for most
people said, yeah, that's like you know, when you're you're
so musical that it's just like only nerds would like it. Yeah, yeah,
it got there. Um, and I don't know, man, I
don't know. I wish I could give you an exact reason.

(25:50):
Timing is everything, you know. I mean, Bobby, you know
you've seen amazing and you were such a supporter of
new music and new artists. You're very rare in that way. Um,
and you've seen it firsthand, like this is amazing, Like
I can't wait to see this thing blow up. And
two years later, five years later, nothing happens, and no
one knows. The one thing that is like really interesting

(26:12):
now in retrospect is obviously everyone was like, how did
this band on take off? And you know, I think now,
I think looking back, for probably most of the people
in the band, I mean particularly us, it's like, well
we have this would have never happened. And certainly as
you look back different And at the time I was
doing solo stuff because John was in an established band
in town, like but really outside of the bands that

(26:34):
were playing nationally, super famous. They were the biggest band
in Nashville, and I, um, it just was like, you know,
I need to do my own solo thing. John's at
the time it was really well known as a great
guitar player, and I didn't really want to, Um, kind
of wrest on his laurels or whatever or write his
coat tails. So I I wanted to just make a

(26:55):
name for myself, and so I'd go out and perform
John a lot of times would join play guitar, and
people always commented on just the two of us together.
There was something that we didn't really notice because we
just played together our entire lives and didn't feel necessarily
that's special to us. And but people kept saying it
over in time and time and time again, like the
two of you is something You've got to do something together. Um.

(27:16):
And then once um, we decided to do that. I
mean within a year we were assigned to Capital Records.
I was watching the Hot Nathan's Hot Dog eating competitions.
You guys have to see any of that at all,
any clips. I don't, but I find it very fascinating. Yes,
before the hot dog part, before the Joey Chestnut eats
seventy this name. Yeah, there's a competition that cannot be

(27:38):
They drink a gallon of lemonade and who drinks the
gwlln letonade the fastest before they eat the hot dogs. Well,
one guy did both competitions and they got the guy
who won the lemonade also didn't win the hot dog,
but also drank the gown lemonade one. Then when Nate
and finished fourth, FIFA a superhero. My point is, and
you're gonna see he probably weighs like eighty pounds. This.
People somehow are like, what is going on? What I

(28:00):
saw John just do with a bottle of water is
what the guy did with the lemonade. Somehow would you
get John on the bottle of water over? It's like
he took one. It's like he took it up, made
one swallow and the whole thing was gone. I was
wondering where the ore hydrated my friends. I don't know.
I just love water. This drives Lucy and my wife,

(28:21):
Lucy sla you played before. It drives her crazy about
how much I love water because she hates water. What
is her to hate? It's amazing, Like it's cold and
it's hydrating, and she's like, she sees how much I
like watern't She gets so annoyed. She thinks I'm doing
it to just pick. Lucy doesn't drink much alcohol, so

(28:42):
I think if she down like fifteen beers the night before,
thank you, and I'm just consistently hung over. I was
listening to t J tell the history by going solo,
but over on the side, I just I could. I
was like there, but in my part of me was going,
that's the weirdest, that's like the the best, the most

(29:02):
solid water drinking I've ever seen. It's it. Let me
let me talk this and I've told this story with
you guys around. But for anyone that's listening new to this,
because this is a whole different podcast that goes a
lot of different places. The first time that I saw
you guys, I had been dragged to what they call
a radio show boot camp. It wasn't about country music. Heck,

(29:25):
I wasn't even in country music. I was. I had
built my own syndication company and I was doing pop
and hip hop. But I was getting trouble because I
would put dirks on William like why are you playing
county music on pop radio? Kind of what it happens now.
Just on the other side, we'll bring in, I'll bring
in somebody and they're like, why are you bringing in?
For all lot of country, I just always knew what
I liked. It didn't matter to me really what format
at what most people I think people are too right.

(29:47):
But I was over there doing that and we're in
this theater and I was ready for some other you know,
Jabron need to get up and talking about something in
radio that I was lame, and they were like, all right,
before we go, we got these two guys want to
show case to you. I think it was Chicago. It
was Yea, and they were like, I'll never forget. This
is one of the most awkward moments in our Brothers Osborne.

(30:10):
And I was like, music, like I'm trying to like
and I also don't know if you recall this, but
they said Brothers Osborne. And then the guy dessides in
that moment to change the batteries and the microphones. I'm like,
why didn't you do this like ten minutes ago? Dude,
you're kidding me. So we had to stand there on
stage where everyone has been they had clapped, finished clapping
five minutes ago, and he's changing one by one of

(30:31):
these batteries. I was like, oh my god, I could
kick you straight off the stage right now, and uh,
let me started performing and no one really cared. Can
I say another thing though about that? I found really
bizarre about that, since you worked in different like formats
and radio. Why are the property of people so insanely arrogant?
Like I feel like a lot of them starts, but
but I find like these people, you know, like I

(30:54):
feel like it's probably unusual in country, like you actually
do know most of not all, all the country artists
that come through here, but they always pretend like you
listen to a pop station, They'll be like, oh, yeah,
I was hanging with my boy Drake, and I'm like,
I guarantee that you maybe just saw him in and
eat and great and it's so weird and they're like
the most and that that thing. I found it almost
like unbearable to watch these people co exist together because

(31:17):
you have the country people who were like really cool
and hanging out and some of them have their their egos,
and then all the pop people were like, screw the
country guys, even though I'm like, these guys have stations
that are like five times the size of yours. I
don't know why that why that happens, but it's weird. Culture.
The answer is culture. You are in the pop world
taught to look as cool as you absolutely can't even

(31:38):
if you don't have it in the country world. And
I find this with myself too, because I'm in California
lot working in the country world or the Nashville world,
or the South or what however you want to use.
You know, we are taught. Hey, even if you are cool,
kind of scale it back a little bit because nobody
gives a crap. Nobody does. So it's it's basically that
that's the difference pop radio versus Los Angeles versus Nashville

(32:00):
his country right here. It's when I go and I'm
shooting American Idol, they think that I am, first of all,
showing up with a haycy, you know. But they're also like,
he's just the greatest guy. He's just a And it's like,
I'm like everybody else here. You know, I don't get
an award for being the greatest guy. I'm a good dude,
but you gotta be good dude around here. You don't survive. Yeah,

(32:22):
I prune the bad dudes here quick and so yeah,
and they're like, oh, he's just the greatest because there
if you don't show up with an entourage, even if
you can't afford it, that's and that's anti that culture
that they promote. So that's it was such a weird
observation that you saw. That's how it is here. If
you show up with an entourage, you everyone's laughing at you. Yeah,

(32:46):
everyone's like rolling their eyes. I mean that's like, in
the same way that Vince Gill, arguably the greatest singer
and songwriter musician of all time of all genres, shows
up by himself to like an event and where's his
lanyard around his neck with his name on, just to
make sure that everyone he can get backstage to a
place he's playing. And then he's just cool and then
he packs up his own guitar and walks off and

(33:08):
drives his own ass home. I'm like, if he can
do it, anyone can do it, right. I Mean, I
saw a Stapleton drive up to a show once in
his old truck in Nashville, get out there like hey,
I'm Chris, and they were like, oh, you are him,
and they just layed the lit him that he just
literally stables and drop his old truck, parked it behind
the rieman and walked in the back just to do
his show. Yeah, And I was like, but yes, it's

(33:30):
a culture. People in that pop culture have to act
cooler than they are people in this culture have to
act less good? You really see it too. At the
Grammy Awards, I feel like it's so funny once again
you'll see someone from country walk in and everyone's like, oh,
this hokey you know s ob Meanwhile, I'm like, this
dude sells like ten times the amount of tickets. You do, like, yeah,

(33:51):
you're not that cool, Like just chill, you know, just
just have fun. Why is it such a you know,
it's weird. They're like, oh, wow, they're so nice. Shouldn't
you just everyone? And I felt that way too early,
but now I just take it. I'm like, I'm the
nightsest guy because I would go to meetings where and

(34:11):
I didn't realize that it was so count or that culture,
but I would go to meetings and pitch TV shows,
not for me, because I produced a couple of shows,
and I would go and I'll be like, I go
meet I met with Less before I got in trouble,
I wouldn't met with Less Moonves who was the president
of CBS and all his people. And I showed up
by myself at the gate and I just you know,
took an uber got out and they were like, you're

(34:32):
here by yourself. Where's it waiting for your team? I
was like, I'm the team and they were just so
shocked by it, and they said, they verbally said, this
never happens, nobody comes alone. This is still refreshing. And
I went, oh, I will not do this forever. So
when I go, and that's what I would have done anyway,
I go by myself and I show I get a
little backpack on, and I'm like, hello, guys. But they're like,

(34:54):
you're the nicest guy. I'm like, I'm not. But it is.
It's it's a definitely a culture thing. But you guys
grew up where you grew up in Maryland. I have
to think felt like the South compared to its compared
from New York and Boston in a place where I
don't want to. I think it's it's interesting, and I

(35:15):
think it's probably a lot of why our music is
the way that it is. Is we It's like to
the Northerners, we are just like these red knecks down
where we're from, and then people from the South treat
us like word of these Yankees, and it's kind of
like we're in kind of everything. No one really wants
to claim us. I'm not really sure what's going on,
but it is a very like homogeneous thing where I

(35:36):
do we do feel part Northeast and part Southern. It's
really really strange. That's funny you say no one wants
to claim you, because I felt for a while, because
I'm not just saying this because you're here. I've been
fans of you guys since the first time I heard you.
I was just like, love you guys. And I think
I think even I would tell you guys that i'd
bring you on the show, and you play stuff and
you've been very supportive. And this isn't me. I don't

(35:57):
want to her mailbow patting myself in the back, but
my point is is that I felt like even the
format country music did that to you for a minute
to not but they're like a little too rock. And
then I'll be like, now there's a little two country
where you kind of were in that same spot where
no one wanted to claim you. Exactly did you feel
that way? Still? Still? I think you know. The thing

(36:19):
is is that we've realized I think there's a lot
of a lot of fans out there who are the
same um for whatever reason, and it's actually been Now
that we are where we are, I think we've done
really well touring because of that, and we've been able
to make a lot happen off of of of comparatively, um,
not a ton of radio success, and I think obviously

(36:40):
to a new artist, we've had a we have had
a decent amount of radio success, but we've gotten a
lot done with with with not much. And uh. And
to to come full circle, though, you mentioned something and
we were kind of heading there with your story talking
about that that radio similar thing that was extremely bizarre
and I've told you this before, but um, we just
got to meet you. I think you were new to country,
so everyone was like, I don't know about this guy. Know,

(37:00):
it's like fresh blood. Everyone's like, and you're immediately coming
into like one of the biggest like slots in radio. Um.
But you sat there through the entirety of our performance.
Most people could care less that we were playing. There
was very few people in the room that paid attention.
And I will always remember remember that you um attend
uve to the entire thing. Whether it was because you

(37:21):
felt incredibly sorry for us, I'm not really sure that
probably thank you you talk about it's you know when
you say we haven't had, as compared to new artists,
a lot of radio success. It's funny because there are
some songs that will hit number four but feel like

(37:44):
a number one with some artists, right not even know
you guys specifically, but urban will come in and I think,
like Gonna Fly or something was never a number one? Right, Well,
He's like, you know, but it feels like a number
one because people were I feel like, because I had
to look at like the chart to see where you
felt like you guys get more credit for having radio
success because it feels like a lot of your songs

(38:05):
were bigger than maybe numerically they were getting. It's really yeah,
and you are right the way, there's a really kind
of a one of my favorite sayings amongst radio promos people,
as they always say, not every hits the number one,
and not everyone number one is a hit, and you know,
it is weird and John and I have just racker
brains all the time thinking about that. Some artists have

(38:28):
a bunch of number ones and you can't remember them,
and then some people have hardly any number ones, but
you remember all of their material, and I don't know
why it works. That way. But I definitely feel that
way for us, and that was why I really particularly
missed playing in front of a crowd for a year
and a half. Is for us, like a song like
all Night, we felt like that would be a big hit.

(38:48):
It was, it did okay, But now that we're out
playing it, it's like you would have thought the song
was was that number one for a month? I mean,
it's people go bananas for it now. It was really
hard for us too. I think it went to like
twenty on the charts or something like that. That that
was that felt like, it's like with this rejection. But

(39:08):
usually John and I don't pay a whole lot of
attention to that because we're seeing it live and we're like, okay,
it's working. But now that we are um back at it,
I'm like, okay, now I get you know, what what
we do? Why we do what we do because it works? Uh.
And it was extremely hard for us in the pandemic
to just only be able to look at a chart
position that was the one. Again, who knows what chart
I'm looking at here? I think this was maybe media base. Yeah, okay,

(39:31):
So All Night was one of the ones that I
specifically pulled and was like this thing was only in
the twenties. Here's a clip of All Night. Another one
was and I bet you that it just lights up
a live show. It ain't my fault. Yeah, I gotta
imagine hands come up and that, oh yeah, every night

(39:51):
it is. Well, yeah, I gotta imagine people hit this
song as hard as any number one live. Well. Yeah,
the thing is our biggest which does very well, Our
biggest song on UM the chart position wise or whatever
was stay a little longer, but people come. The majority
of the crowd the song they're waiting to hear is
this one? I mean, is it ain't my fault? Yeah,
that's the one that they call for the most, you know,

(40:11):
stay a little longer. It was being our only number
one it UM. People love that song, but they stay
for all night. They want to hear it, but they
stay for that. And right now we're onto our current single,
I'm Not for Everyone, and we're it's charting, we're doing
pretty good, but we're like, hello, can we like can
we get moving here? Like this? Were still just like
hanging in the forties, like what's going on? But now

(40:33):
that we're going out and we can play it and
people are already responding like we're playing um a hit song.
It's like, okay, it's just that there's some there's other
things that play here more than than just a chart position.
It's a huge part of what we do, but it's
not the only thing. And it can be can it
can drive I think it even artists that have lots
of number ones. If you just look at a chart,

(40:53):
it really will just eat you from the inside out.
It's really frustrating, especially from like the forty two to
thirty one spot that's like the swampy no man. So
you're just trying to climb out and if you can
get out, you got a shot. And then if you're
looking at the chart, especially being in this business now
for as long as we have, it's like we know
nearly everyone that's on the charts. When your friend jump you,

(41:15):
you're like, oh, I'm canceling dinner. I think it all
comes down to like what's your what Like what's your
own metric? You know? And there are people that live
and die by the chart. Um, And that's fine. If
that's your metric and that's what you base your success on,
that's fine. That's that's how you want to do it,
and it's great. I think for us, we have to
base our own success off of multiple metrics. Um. One

(41:38):
of them is how well we're doing on radio, but
most importantly, like t J touched on earlier, is how one,
how many butts are you put in seats? And to
how much fun are they having? And how much are
they have? Much fun are they having during that song?
Can you feel the energy? And we have to go
off of that metric. You know, we've We're very grateful

(42:00):
for how we've done on country radio, considering that we
do sound different, um, and it has helped us immensely.
But if we only hung our hat on just the chart,
we would lose our minds, which is honestly why I
don't even look at it. I mean I don't because
what the hell can I do? I mean right, I'm
not gonna call a radio promoter or some guy up
and be like, hey, can you give me that five spins?

(42:20):
That's what our promo teams for. It's just gonna drive
me crazy. But every time they do play a song,
it is a little advertisement for our band. And there's
also this really strange disconnect with radio. And as John
said to me, I think the ultimate just stat is
just tickets. You sell tickets, and um, there are people
like Luke Holmbs who have lots of number ones, can

(42:40):
sell a lot of tickets, and then there's people that
like Stapleton who doesn't have a ton of radio success,
but we'll sell out everywhere he goes Casey Musgraves or
like an artist like Eric Church where he has radio
success but not as much as you would think for
someone who sells as many tickets as he does. And
that's the thing for me where I'm like, you know,
where you look at Miranda Lambert, you know a guy
will round on tour with her, I thought, to get
all these hits and the same thing for her. She

(43:02):
doesn't have a ton of number ones, but let's all
the people who have a lot of number ones can't
sell seats. That's my fun game and I think we
gotta go. It's a good but anyhow, but the and
that's the kind of also the thing like the arrow
that we lived in is amazing that I can tell
you firsthand that kind of your radio helps sell tickets

(43:24):
and helps blow you off. I mean, we stay a
little longer. When that was a hit, it was night
and day what our shows did. Um. But at the
same time, there's so many other ways that there's and
it's in some ways it's exciting and otherways it's also
exhausting because they're like, now it's like, we gotta get
thongs on the streaming services, and then we gotta do
things to promote here, and then we's so there's so
much to do, so many angles, and if you ignore

(43:46):
any one of them, you're really it's it's it's I
don't know if you're um kind of um. I'm trying
to think of a nice way to put this that
that I can say to your fans something clean, But
you're an idiot basically if you ignore any of those, well,
I haven't learned the TikTok dance yet to your new song,
So if you guys want to, it's not happening now,
you guys, I guess that's why I haven't learned it.

(44:07):
We should go a TikTok for you to sit stand
still like everyone can do this. Yeah what um? So
the tour we're not we're not for everyone. Yes, we're
not for everybody. Everyone, We're so did you name because
it's always your name? The song and the record, after
the song, after the tour, and what order did that happen?

(44:27):
And did you name the tour this because you really
felt that or because it was a good song, or well,
a couple of different reasons. I mean, you know, you
we know, I don't know. We titled the record of
Skeletons because honestly, it's the song, the song Skeletons on
that record, But defined I think the record is kind
of the center piece. It's one of the keys. Was
it the first one? One of the first ones were

(44:49):
and um, and then we recorded I'm Not for Everyone.
It was one of the last songs, if not the
last song that we recorded. We thought we got one
more day, let's just do this song. And I'm like,
we're thinking, man, I'll sing a verse. That might be
kind of cool. It'll just be different. It'll never be
a single, but the fans will like it. And then um,
we put the record out and then people started freaking
out about this song in particular, and I think that

(45:10):
has a lot to do with the message. I mean,
you look at the times that we're in now and
everyone is claiming you know who they are and this
is what I do. And also like coming to terms
with the fact that you just can't please everybody, especially
in two thousand one. So we felt the traction of
the song, so we decided, you know, we got to
put it out and then us, um it is a
bit of our Montrail. We are accepting that we just

(45:31):
are not for everybody. You look at our songs, getting
the twenty at best for the most part, and then
um getting to Kneel and Travis, who are both a
very unique, very awesome left of centeral artists. It's just
kind of worked. The whole message seemed to come together
at one time. I wish I could say that we
were smart enough to see in the future like that,
but we're not. And it's just but we saw how

(45:53):
the thing was shaping up when we took advantage of it.
And I think it is one of those things that
you that John and I wrote it from the perspective
of of this is how we feel, and to our surprise,
so I think nearly everyone feels that way, you know.
Whenever I wrote So, I was some very personal things
in my first book, and I thought I'm gonna share

(46:14):
some stuff that's extremely vulnerable, and a lot of it
had to do with either the drug addiction my mom
had before she died, or a lot of the really
bad decisions that she made that influenced me, and that
I loved her, but it was a very tough relationship.
I mean, hex she got pretty much fifteen right, and
my dad laughed, so she had to. But I was going.

(46:35):
There was a lot of stuff, and even when she
reached her breaking point, she did some things that I
know she wouldn't be proud of, but because drugs had
a taking control of her. And so I wrote and
then that I was trying to tell the story of
someone who had been through that, not through her side
of it, but through mine. And I've never had a
drink of alcohol and never touched a drug because I've
been so scared of it. I wish I could. I mean,

(46:56):
and that, to me, the one thing I want to
do is relax. I so um. But I wrote these
stories and I thought, man, other people are gonna feel
sorry for me. You're gonna tell me to shut up,
but they're not going to understand. And I put it
out and what I learned is and I say this
because you just expressed the same thing to me. What
I learned was I never felt so welcomed or like

(47:19):
I was included, until I felt like I was so
not included. I thought, this is my story. No one's
gonna understand, nobody's gonna relate, nobody's gonna feel like me. Um.
But it turns out that just because people aren't screaming
about it doesn't mean they're not feeling it. Yeah, exactly,
And that you know when you say we're not for everyone,
we do. That's how I felt about me. But I

(47:39):
would be doing a mean greet somewhere, you know, we'd be,
I'd be doing so come up. I's like, you know
the story about you know that that touched me and
I felt that. I felt that severely when I came out.
It was you know, I thought I didn't know how
it would be received. I know some people would be
supportive and some people would probably hate. But I think
the thing that was really um one of the most
um like recharging things of it or whatever or inspiring

(48:02):
things to me were the parents and stuff being like,
hey my kid, parents of other kids, yeah, are being
like this is great. You know I've always I was
getting a lot of that kind of stuff of just
people who themselves weren't gay, but we're really close to
someone who was, and this felt like just like a
relief for them, and um, and that yeah, so I

(48:23):
know what you mean. It was I didn't expect that
and it was one of the coolest experiences I've ever felt.
Did you feel more love? And you just said this,
but I just want to hear this from you again
because I did. Did you feel more love than you expected?
I did? And you know I'm and I've talked about this,
um before, but is uh. I absolutely felt more loved
than I expected. And I even feeling the love from

(48:44):
people that I knew loved me. Um, it was. It
just was so different. It was so overwhelming, and it's
the thing I wish everyone got to experience, because everyone
has loved more than they realized they are. And the
kind of sad part is there's a lot of people
don't talk about how much they love someone until they've
died or something really true. Magic um, And you know,
it was a difference of just like someone you know,

(49:05):
it's like I compared to someone just leaves like all right,
all right, love you man, see you later, as opposed
to like someone grabbing you by their shoulders and being
like I love you. Like it just was like, Wow,
it's the same word, but it just hit in such
a different way. Um that I just thought in that moment, wow,
like just for this alone to feel this is um.
It said something I wish everyone could feel at some

(49:26):
point in time. Why at that point in time, like
do you have a conversation like let's just do it
now where you finally like, don't I just feel like
telling people? Well, yeah, I mean I always wanted to
come out, and this was a huge um hurdle from
me because I was always really really afraid that I
would look opportunistic, and so I never wanted it to

(49:47):
never wanted it to be anything that would just not
here here here, we need some publicity or whatever, um.
And so in order to do that, I always felt
like I need to do this. At the height of
my career and then through the pandemic, I'm like, yeah,
you I just really one was kind of the things
that were important to me were very simple things, things
that I've had my virtually my whole life was doing

(50:07):
the same sitting around fire or having in some drinks,
just you know, chewing the fat with people. That was
I mean, the things that I was still having the
same that were fun for me, and I'm like, I
can do this, you know. When I when I was broke,
I was having doing these same exact things, you know.
So I just felt like at that point, like and
then also, who who knows when you're at the height
of your career, And so then the other fear was

(50:28):
what if I have to you never know that you
have passed the height of your career until you're on
the way down, and then if I come out then
it's still which just seems like I'd be jumping the
shark to people. And so I just felt kind of
stuck in this weird thing of like I'm unsure the
perfect time. And then finally, just one day, I just
thought like I gotta do this, like and I gotta
do it now, and I don't want to go back
to work to where I just did have distractions again,

(50:50):
like I need to do this now where I can
focus on it. And and the other thing too was
I want to be able to build my Why would
I not want to get to the height of my
career being just completely open about who I am and
what I am and John and I are really pride
ourselves for just being who we are. I mean, hell
Alard's where I'm not for everyone. It's kind of like
their mission statement, so to speak. And so at that

(51:12):
point I was like, it needs. I don't know that
there ever is a perfect time, and there really isn't
in your brain until you do it, and then you
realize that was the perfect time. It was wild about
that day, uh is that that morning was when the
Morgan wall and stuff happened. And here I I go
into I wake up thirty in the morning and clicking

(51:33):
clicking to click, and I'm like the Morgan wall and stuff,
and I'm getting hit by everybody because if somebody wants
in this format, and I have to be careful now too,
which I never thought would be the case with me.
People just want to sound bite out of me and
they're like, what do you have to say about Morgan Wallon?
What do you have to say Morgan wall And I'm like, god,
dang man, I don't know. I just saw this. I

(51:53):
need And so I get on the air that morning
and because I don't think your story came out until
the literal like eight thirty or nine o'clock that morning,
which was also interesting because I hadn't even read the
article until it went live for everyone else. So yeah,
it was intense. It was an intense moment when the
fun they went out. I'm on and I'm like, i
gotta say about Morgan Wallin because I'm getting beat up
about it. I'm gonna say how I feel. And no

(52:14):
one has said anything because everybody's just kind of scared.
They're all like, I don't want to say the wrong
thing either way. So I get on and I'm like,
all right, guys, here's the deal. He's gotta go away
for a little bit, fixed himself, get he gets to
come back. That was my message, like we don't cancel people, like,
we don't need to cancel people for anything unless you
heard a kid, you heard an animal, or are you're
a really really bad person. Yeah, I said, We're not

(52:35):
going to cancel him, but if you don't think he
needs to go away and at least like come on,
I said, I like Morgan. Morgan has been here, He's
been over to the house heart. Yeah. So I'm dealing
with this and I'm catching it on both sides. Because
I'm the sensible one. I'm not canceling him. So canceled
canceled country artists are hitting me up, going, I can't
believe you do it. We know, the canceled artists and

(52:57):
the people that are like no, he and I just
being sensible was so tough because I got both sides.
Then your story comes out, and I mean, I know
you were gay, I did you know, But for me
it was big do you said it? Because I was
finally I would get to talk about it. And I
went on the air and I mentioned it, and everybody's
like talking about Morgan wall and who cares? And in
in in a way in both ways like I felt

(53:20):
irritated and great at the same time. Great that people
weren't like, we need to hear because somebody's gay, because
I just did a show called The Talk where they
were talking about, you know, somebody being gay, and I
was like, wouldn't be great if somebody was gay and
that was you don't have to announce it. It's just
part of life, and you know, and yeah, and it
would be especially great for people who are gay. You know,
I would love not to talk about it. And that's

(53:40):
the weirdest thing. I have only verbally come out to
anyone at this point. I mean, it was like, I
mean maybe kind On one hand, I just people just
kind of found out, like you know, I mean, hell
A was extra neighbors with Amy, and I've lived there
with my boyfriend in that house, and I'm sure it
was not hard to figure out after amount with any
certain amount of time that we were together and so um.

(54:03):
And then it was kind of this really intense thing
because I'm like, when I'm about to come out to
everyone and it's just awkward. It's a really awkward thing
to do. It's it's rarely in context with anything that's
being discussed amongst your friends. It's a really it's just
a strange. It's just I don't really like to shock
people either, you know. It's like I guess what you know,
I don't. That's just not how I am. So I've

(54:25):
always felt like so in some ways it was kind
of relief to be able to just do it all
on one thing. And the other thing it was relieving
for me too is that I felt like it was
kind of this burden for people that did know that
felt like they didn't want to talk about or they
could talk about it, or felt weird, can we talk
about it? I'm like everyone in the room knows, like,
you know, it's fine. I didn't really care all that much,
but I felt like it was a relieving moment for
them too, because I feel like it was unfortunately, um

(54:47):
it was. I guess Mike crossed Barris so to speak,
but I think there was lots of people who were, um,
kind of felt the stress of that. Well. My my
point was I would have liked that morning to have
spoken about representation because I think it's so important where there.
You just want to see somebody that is similar to
you doing something great. Then you feel like you can
do because I even me, growing up a poverty kid,

(55:10):
I didn't see people like me doing cool things, and
so I like to be that for them, and I
like to do so I wanted to have that conversation
and they were like, that's not for today talking and
I was like kept hearing people who are like upset
that you're like, oh, Morgan wall and stole your thunder
and and I was like, this wasn't about getting attention,
you know. So I was like, I truly didn't care.
If anything. I thought it was kind of a good

(55:31):
moment to see that the variety of what country is
going through at this moment. I mean, to have that
on one hand and then this one the other is
just like wow, what a time for not only country
but just kind of cultural things happening. UM. And I
think for me it was just speaking about from my
own experience and doing that is I think a lot
of people just really think that, Yeah, both country fans

(55:54):
and country artists that were just all these like really
narrow minded you know, um Neanderthals or whatever they think,
I'm not really sure, and then to to kind of
really be part of this group of people that I
think is incredibly diverse, more than people realize. And and
it's only really recently really becoming that way, but I
think there's a lot of country fans out there who

(56:16):
have never really been able to have, um, to really
be acknowledged that much too. And that we've noticed that people.
I mean, you see it really especially with with like
Kane out there and and Mickey, Jimmy Allen, these people
that that now all these people of color haven't success.
We see it at our shows, people of color, more
people of color showing up. You know, before they loved
it alone. They just felt uncomfortable, They didn't feel like

(56:37):
they belonged um in the community, but they do. If
you get a cold, does your voice get deeper? I
don't have a cold, if that's what you're wondering now,
if you did it does get deeper? Oh? Yeah, how
I don't know you ever do voice Did you ever

(56:57):
try to do voice over stuff? You know? I just
really only kind of started talking about it and then
about just doing it just mainly for fun. I mean,
I can't imagine there's a ton of money in it,
but I um, but recently someone told me that like
pretty much every person in entertainment has been trying to
do voice evers now because there's been so little work,
like but now they do it all from home. Then
I'm like they're like, no, we don't need more, just
just just sink please, Well, let's not let it be

(57:20):
lost on. This is like I would say, this is
the Lady A Effect where Charles Kelly is ten feet tall,
so you don't realize Dave Haywood's like six two or six.
And I say that about you because John, you have
a deep freaking voice too, but you're just not quite
right down there. I mean he had a lower voice
than me when we were kids. I mean, I was
in puberty and his voice was lower than I didn't
even hit puberty puberty yet it was like, what you

(57:42):
done here? You had an Adams Apple at five? What
the hell is going on? I did? One time I
got in trouble at school for some like silly thing.
I was just kind of a class clown. And then
I was able to get home in time to intercept
the phone call and they thought they were speaking to
my dad, and I was like, your son today, I'll

(58:03):
deal with it. Tell me John about when you play?
Is there something that you do see because you're so proficient?
And I and I ask in this is And I
don't mean to be insulting because sometimes people will say,
hey man, you're pretty talented, and I get insulted by
that because I'm not talented. I work hard. Well, there's

(58:23):
you have to have both. You have to have talents,
nothing without without working hard. So I ask in the
way of naturally, did you have a gift that you
felt early? Do you are you able to interpret playing
or sounds sonic anything different than people you even play with?
Like what is it about you that makes it special? Um? Well,

(58:45):
I don't want to say that I'm special in any
regards not you. Yeah, it's special, um or it because
it is kind of binary when it is it in you.
But honestly, it's a It's a couple of things like
I picked up on guitar pretty quickly, quickly, um, But
on top of it, like I loved playing, and I

(59:06):
loved the process and um. I remember watching the video
with John Maye a couple of years ago, and I
wish I had thought of this a long time ago,
and he was saying, what makes people great is they
have to love the process of getting there. And there
are a lot of people that have natural ability, but
they don't like the process of working at it. And
I think more important than natural ability is working hard

(59:28):
at it, because you can have someone there's just a
little bit of talent um and they can work their
ass off and then they will get there eventually. Um.
And I've seen just the most natural musicians. I used
to teach guitar when I was in high school, and
then some of these kids could pick it up so fast,
but then they just wouldn't work hard at it. So
I genuinely loved learning. I love reading, I love knowledge
and just soak it all in and it gets to

(59:51):
a point and I don't want to get too metaphysical
with anything, but there's something called flow, and we all
get in it, you know, like you have some nights.
I'm sure you know this when you're and stand up.
You have some nights were like, okay, I want to
I'm battling this one out. I got through it. And
the other nights it's like you're surfing on a wave
and you just can't fall and not. This is getting
kind of heavy, but there there used to be the

(01:00:14):
term genius was referred to something that was like metaphysical,
that lived above us, and we didn't actually have talent.
We were to conduit conduit for talent um. But I
think there is something to it. Whereas you you get
you work really really really really really hard, then your
brain shuts off and then you just do it like
your brain is not even your It's just I don't

(01:00:35):
want to say autopilot because sounds bad, but you're just
it seems like something else is flowing through you and
you just happened to be the vessel for it. And
you know that's I believe you. Look at players like me,
look at Keith when he's in the zone. That's like
he's not even he leaves his body. Go look, I
mean any pretty much any performance of Jimmy Hendrix or
Steve ray Van, those guys have left their body and

(01:00:56):
like something else is taking over. But that only comes
with putting in your ten thousand hours and putting that
ten thousand hours in over and over and over and
over again to the point where your brain just shuts
off and it just happens. That was gonna be my question,
like do you get to flow if you didn't put
the work in the flow a product of hour a degree,

(01:01:17):
like you know what I mean. It's like I would
say for me, like there are certain days, like I
wouldn't consider myself to be labeled as funny. I occasionally
say funny things, but I don't think I'm a funny guy.
But there will occasionally be a day where I am
just like I don't know what's going on, but I'm
just getting all of these like really hilarious things are
coming to me and I'm saying I'm everyone's laughing, and
then I might try it the next day and everyone's like, well,
you shut up, You're not funny at all. But I

(01:01:38):
just had that flow that day, I was feeling funny.
There was something going on. But you know, and I
do think that it is like the same thing, like
there isn't innate like just talent you would have like
me having a low voice for instance, I didn't practice that.
I just have it, and um, you know there is
an ability of Like for me, it was like, well,
I can't sing like a lot of really and crazy

(01:02:01):
good singers like you know whoever, just whoever comes to mind,
Bruno Mars or whoever. But I had to really learn
of like how to make a single note like a
whole note really feel like I was singing twenty notes
or whatever. And that's something. Yeah, it does take it
takes a lot of time. But the reason why you
were able to work on it. And in the instance
when Drop playing guitar, so he just really really liked

(01:02:21):
it more than the average person. Most people listen to it.
They don't want to figure it out. It's like I
can go out and like try to build a house
and just get a bunch of nails and start hammering
things together, but until someone really still you work at
how to actually frame a house out or how to
cut this board properly? Um, is all the difference. Yeah,
I actually loved practicing. So going back to what we
were talking about earlier, you know, I had a scholarship
at Belmont to play upright bass and um and and

(01:02:44):
all that stuff. Yeah, and played the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra.
But I never really liked practicing. I did it because
I had to, and I enjoyed the playing side of it,
but I never I I just didn't want to sit
down and do it. But guitar, you, no one ever
had to tell me to do it. I couldn't get
it out of my hand now. In fact, there was
be times where I would be like, oh my god,
and I'd be like, he'd still be playing guitar, and

(01:03:06):
I'm like, oh my god, dude, like we're gonna be
up in like six hours, like shut up, and I
don't know, I don't know why. I would be like
all right, and then he'd be like and then he
would be like, Okay, well let me play something that
because we shared a bedroom growing up and we grew
up in a really humble, humble means, and so he
would um, yeah, he would then just play like something
chill to fall asleep. What were you and not a

(01:03:26):
therapist here, But what were you chasing by trying to
get so good at the guitar? I don't know. I
mean it there is a bit of an addictive quality
to it, you know, um I was. It was probably
if you would if you wanted to go into the
biological side of it is probably serotonin and dopamine hits,
just like anybody that's addicted to anything. I just couldn't.

(01:03:47):
I no one ever told me to do it. It
wasn't even a choice. I never said go and said
I'm going to choose to want to do this, and
I just wanted to do I think I sat away
from mostly That's why I find it so hilarious when
someone's like, I'm retired ring from music, so like literally
you're never in your life going to sing or anything
ever again. But honestly, and a big part of it,

(01:04:07):
for me, to a big side of it was in school,
I was like, by far the farthest thing from the
cool kid, very quiet, very shy, very sensitive, picked on
by the bullies and all the cool kids. And my
guitar for me was like, Okay, this is my place.
I feel invincible here and maybe it just like your
saace my safe place, and I felt like it became

(01:04:29):
my identity and maybe I was chasing that. I don't
really know a hundred percent, but I just absolutely loved it.
And I'd be in school and I'd be like hiding
from my own shadow. And then it is therapeutic, you know,
like your oldest sister Rachel, who um, you know, God
blessed her. She's a wonderful person, but can't she cannot
was not blessed. If you're if you are blessed with music,
she certainly was not, and she would admit that, and

(01:04:50):
so she always said she she's like, anytime you guys
are arguing her a moment gets awkward, she's like, you guys, whistle,
You'll be like, we like what her and we does
instantly kind of get lost in music, and I think
there's like there's something there which is also writing songs
those types of things. It is a it's like it
is a form of therapy. But it was also very

(01:05:11):
much a kind of a quiet kind of I loved
solitude and you know, I could go to my room. Unfortunately,
I don't know what I would be as a teenager.
Now there's way too you know where they're subjected to,
you know, TikTok and all these being an Instagram influencer,
and then all these video games, which we had video
games as a kid, but they're nothing like they are now.
I mean, it was just like I don't know, you

(01:05:32):
played it and whatever. So I was addicted to guitar.
And if I ever felt and I've struggled with anxiety,
I have had anxiety my whole life, and I've I've
done a lot of work around it, but guitar for
me was my medicine. So if I would ever fell
nervous or anxious or any type of um like hinging
on or virginal and depression, guitar wol always bring me

(01:05:52):
back to center. And that's that's has a lot to
do with it as well. You know, I asked, you know,
what were you chasing? And because I think for well,
for me, I know what I was chasing when I
was a kid and I was trying to perform at
anything was radio. If it was I was getting on stage,
it was I didn't have love at home, so I
was trying to get it somewhere else. Yeah, absolutely right,

(01:06:16):
And I as I'm you know, I'm engaged and you know,
we're gonna get married soon and all. And she has
to slap me in the head sometimes and go, hey,
you know what, you don't have to like chase that
sometimes like you're loved. That's good, that's good. And it's
the first person to ever do that to me. And
I actually understand what they mean. But and I but

(01:06:36):
I've never heard that, because that's another thing you could
actually be chasing that serotonin. That for me is wild
to think about. And I know why I did it, right,
I know what I'm still doing it, honestly. You know,
some of that childhood trauma stuff you just don't shake.
You better. One of the hardest things. And it's amazing
that you have such a strong woman that kind of

(01:06:58):
shakes you and rattles you out of that. Because what
is enough? You know, what is enough success? You know?
It's like I was talking about with some of these artists,
some of the biggest artists in the world. They don't
need the money anymore. I mean, there's something else here
that they can't shake. There's you know there. It's how
good a Grammy and you get one? It's like, well,
how many can I get? I want to have the
most I want to I want to have the biggest tour.

(01:07:19):
I want to sell the most tickets, I want to
be sell the most records, and um and it it's
hard not to get caught up in in that, you know,
I think, I mean everyone, it starts to feel very
much like a competition and like a celebration at any
point in time, especially like radio. I mean, it's all
ratings and where you place, you know, any more judgment.
It's like crazy, but it gets I mean, and the

(01:07:40):
reason why you don't look at it because I did.
That's why we don't look at the chart. I mean,
it does drive you. So at the end of two
thousand nineteen, I had a pretty epic meltdown, just like
very It was really really bad and um, you know,
I ended up. My anxiety was at like this crazy high.
And I've always kind of dealt with it one or
the other. Um And I've never really I mean, don't

(01:08:01):
get wrong, I've liked a party and I like to
do things to assist me in partying. But I've never
struggled with it, like I never wake up going man,
I drink like I've never struggled with the addiction in
that way. But I have struggled with workaholism, and my
and I you probably struggled with this too. I've always
felt like, Okay, if it's getting weird, I'll just work

(01:08:22):
harder and then that will solve my problems, because it
has done that for years. And really I'm just distracting
myself from the inevitable monster that is about to envelop me.
And it did. In the end of two thousand nineteen,
I went to um this place called on Site for
three weeks. It was a full on thing, you know,
it was it was, It was bad. I got to
the point where it was suicidal, and I ended up

(01:08:43):
with tonightus ringing in my ears, brought on by a
lot of other different things. I wasn't sleeping. It got really,
really ugly. And it occurred to me at some point
that when I was a kid, I would play a guitar.
When I would feel that way, you know, I would
play guitar. It would take me out to that, you know.
If I was in school and I was anxious, I
would go and play guitar. If I was at home

(01:09:04):
and it was too much, was at home with like
you know, our parents fighting, I would go into the
room and I'll play guitar, and I always made me
feel better, and then I pursued a career in music.
I'm like, this is fun, and then this is great
and I get to do it all the time. Um, meanwhile,
I'm not really I'm not really taking care of my
inner child, which is really what it all boils down to. Um,

(01:09:24):
I'm just ignoring it and I'm making myself feel better,
you know. And of course I had moments of like
I'll just drink my way through it and smoked weed
my way through it or whatever I had to do.
And then um, it got to the point where all right,
we made it. We're success successful, We're Grammy nominated, we're
winning awards, we're buying houses. At the time when this
is happening, we're on tour with like this dream line

(01:09:46):
up with Alison Krause bonding right, and Willie Nelson our
three favorite artists period of all time, top three, And um,
I had a meltdown and I couldn't do it anymore.
I I broke down the tour, which was like farm made.
I mean, all these like really huge at this huge moment,
and I think in two things I realized happened one
I realized that now the very thing that brought me

(01:10:08):
out of anxiety was now the the was now giving
me anxiety, was now the reason for it. Because you know,
if I felt judgment, I'd play guitar. If I felt anxious,
I would play guitar, um, if I felt picked on whatever,
I play guitar. Now this thing is like you're judged
a lot, you know, which again we don't look at

(01:10:28):
the charts. I try to ignore a lot of that stuff,
but it is a lot of judgment that you get
every day and it's like you'll sign on to Twitter
and you're like, whoa man. You guys are piste off
about things and we didn't even do anything and you're
mad at us. So it became a lot. So then
I had nothing to fall back on. The I didn't
even want to play guitar. It was awful. And the

(01:10:49):
other thing I realized when I was there, and through
a lot of therapy that I've done since then, is
you this is not an uncommon situation to be in.
You know, I person growing up and having you know, trauma,
and we all have trauma. No one is uh no one,
no one gets a hot best. We all have trauma,
big trauma, small trauma. You have it and you have

(01:11:11):
to deal with it at some point. And it is
it is so not unusual for someone like myself or
or really any of us to pursue a goal because
we are we're we have this false notion that once
we get it, everything will be better. And then the
problem is and this happens all the time, and you see,
it happened all the time with movie stars, with musicians,

(01:11:35):
just big, you know, anyone that that finally succeeds in
their dream once they got it, they realized, oh no,
that actually didn't do it. And I've like spent twenty
years trying to figure that out. Now what And when
you realize that, you look behind you and that giant
monster is huge because you never dealt with it. And

(01:11:56):
a lot of times that's why people end up with
bad drug addictions and alcohol addiction and rehab and stuff
like that, because they never dealt with their problem to
begin with. So fortunately, through the love of my family
and my wife and friends and the people that we
work with, our management was amazing, the label was amazing.
J Joyce or produced was amazing. They're like, stop everything,

(01:12:17):
We're done for a month, go go take care of yourself.
And I did that. I'm so glad that I made
it through because not everyone does. It's crazy to talk
about being a workaholic and we're almost done here, but um,
like I I experienced that right like I hide from
things or did still do get a little better because
I have a good supports system now still do. But
I went on site too because I was like, oh,

(01:12:39):
it get like whatever is about to happen ain't supposed
to be about to happen. It's like you start to
crack and I just wanted to catch the cracks before
they turned into just full scale earthquakes. Yeah. So as
like I have empathy for you, I don't have I
have sympathy for anyone that's going through anything, but have
empathy because I I understand, right, And let's as what

(01:13:00):
we talked about what comes background full circle lend on
this that so many people understand. But because you're only
talking about it because it's not on social media, because
it's not on Facebook, everybody thinks they're alone. Dude. That
is that is? That is it? That is it? Right there?
And I've told so many people this the problem that
we face in this world, and I think it's a
bit of an epidemic, is that everyone we're also connected,

(01:13:24):
yet we all feel so alone. Because you post all
of your highlights on social media. That's not who you are,
That's not who you really are. That's why when you
wrote those things in your book, it made people feel
vulnerability is everything. That's that's where connection happens. I don't
go hi, I'm John Osborne. I have won all these
awards and blah blah blah blah, no one cares. But
if I said hi, I'm John was when I struggle

(01:13:45):
with really bad depression anxiety. Immediately, vulnerability creates connection and
and talking about it, it's kind of intuitive, talking about
it keeps you from being alone. But you're right, Bobby is.
And when John was going through a lot of this stuff, um,
you know, people were coming up like man, you know,
like my son went through this, we're going through this.
People that I was really close to, and I had
no idea that they were dealing with extreme problems and

(01:14:09):
no one was talking about it. And I kind of
felt like wow, you know, and I thought, well, part
of why John is in the condition he's in is
that he felt so alone and that he couldn't complain
about it because it was it was like maybe he
felt it was weakness or he didn't want to feel
like he was letting anyone down and that he needed
a man up and get it together when there was
tons of people around you at any given day that
are going through some really really severe things. And that

(01:14:31):
really was eye opening to me. I was like, Wow,
I just wish people talked about him. Oh yeah, me too. Well, listen,
you know I adore both to you guys. Likewise, man,
I mean, I couldn't on a fundamental level respect and
just love you guys likewise for somebody I don't hang
out with like I love you, I don't hang out
with anybody really, I got like two people to hang
out with. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I don't know exactly.

(01:14:52):
You gotta go to bed in like two hours, but
I do, and I sincerely mean and I don't tell
a lot of people that because I don't mean it.
But of that from you, I hope you guys know
that it is as legitimate from me as it possibly
could be. Thank you and you and you said, hey,
I needed I need to be picked up. I'm down
in Madison broken down, I would come and pick you up.
We know that, we absolutely know that. Yeah, and and

(01:15:14):
I And it makes me feel good to know that
you are also privy to your to your own um
you know, trials that we all deal with, and that
you have your soon to be wife who's there just
to slap you across the head and remind you, hey man,
sometimes it sucks, but it is the best medicine you
will ever get. Like I I have. I'm forty one

(01:15:36):
now right, I've never been engaged, never even been close
to being engaged, never been married. And it's the first
I never lived with anyone. So it's like now she
will just go no, yeah, kind of like, wait, I don't.
I don't understand that. What do you mean, what do
you mean? You know? I just want to go spend
six hours playing golf with my friends. And she's like, no, no,

(01:15:58):
we have two dogs, we've the groceries to go get.
It's not responsible, No, I don't. And it's and and
it's that the real life stuff. But then it's also
the I will spiral and she's like, and we'll end
on this. This is because we're sharing here. Can I
also ask you a question. Is those times where she's like, no,
you're not going to go out and do that and

(01:16:19):
then you stay home. Are you like, Wow, this is
actually kind of nice. Yeah. At the in the end,
I'm like, she write, but I don't say that out out.
We were um my TV show that was on NAT
G O and it's doing really well. I haven't I
haven't watched to show you, but just the reels. I'm like,
once we're finished with this, so we don't don't keep going,

(01:16:41):
I want to ask you about the Barges because they
both he and I live on the river and we
see the Barges. I've got a million questions. Well, so
we do this show, and I'm like, I've been waiting
to do my own I created this show myself, and
it's kind of like part Jackass, part dirty Jobs, part
what I do on the radio show. But I've combined
all these elements things I love and made this show
about people with adversity, and I'm like, I just want

(01:17:02):
to get it on the air. Now Joe buys it,
I'm like, all right, Oh, I just it's gotta have
huge ratings. One comes out huge ratings. I'm going crazy
every week I'm going crazier about something else. It gets
on Disney Plus, it's not Disney Plus, it's on the
front screen. And I'm like, if I'm on the front
screen and it's not one of the biggest shows, they're
not gonna want it anymore. And she will grab me
and say, you are spiraling like you have to and

(01:17:23):
I listen, and I don't listen to anybody that the
blind right. We all have a blind spot and you
have to have someone there to tell you what's in
that blind spot. And she's doing that there. Okay, listen,
you guys. Brothers weren't gonna be out. We're not for everyone.
The tour dates all July nine through November twenty, They're out.
You're out all the time. I've never seen so many

(01:17:45):
dates in one apparently they're doing four shows in Boston
in one hour. Apparently. Um, but but you know, you
guys check it out as you can see. UM. I
love the guys. Follow them at Brothers Born, very funny
on social media. I appreciate you guys this time. I
appreciate you. We did an hour. We did over an hour.

(01:18:06):
That's sometimes he needs go fifteen minutes and I'm like, well,
I was good folks. But I just appreciate you guys,
and I see you Sam. Likewise, buddy here

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#306 - Brothers Osborne on their Radio Success vs. Ticket Sales + Why TJ Decided To Tell His Story + John on Taking a Break from Music for Mental Health

Episode Transcript

Host

Bobby Bones

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