Bobby has been a fan of Sarah Buxton for a long time and was excited to finally sit down and really get to know her. She grew up in Lawrence, Kansas which she says helped her hone her storytelling skills that lead her to become one of Nashville’s top female songwriters. Sarah tells the story behind her new EP “Moonriser” and how the songs were written on a certain trip that inspired her to make a big life decision after returning from. She explains why her early music is hard for her to hear, how Keith Urban recording her song changed her life and how she feels now releasing new music of her own after years of just writing for other artists.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey, welcome to episode three thirty eight. You're gonna love
Sarah Buxton. She is a singer songwriter with multiple number
ones and also multiple number two's. We talked about that
and how frustrating, still amazing, frustrating in the best way
to have two massive songs they go to number two.
She just put out an EP called Moon Riser and Rain,
(00:22):
like this is such a good song. Here you go.
She's written songs for F G Al, Chris Lane, Keith Urban.
We'll talk about that. From Kansas and you know, classic
small town America story traveled with the band. She was
nominated for a Big Artist Awards up against a major
(00:44):
star and I mean major, like a plus list star
in one of these It's it's good and you're just
gonna like her and her attitude and you know it
brings a great perspective and I've just been a fan
for a long time. So, without any further ado, you
here is Sarah Buxton at So all right, we're here
with Sarah Buxton. Which I have a couple of questions
(01:06):
I was thinking about before you came over. I'm gonna
get to them in a second. Before we get to
the traditional type you know, get to know your stuff.
But I think the last time that I saw you
was maybe you were in with Dustin Lynch early in
the morning. I just remember early. For me it was
it's late for lunch. For you, maybe early, but you
(01:29):
have that creative you know. I don't know. You sleep
later than I do. Probably I I'm both. I I
do the early morning thing, and I also like I
like mornings and evenings. I don't like mornings. I if
I have five days off, I'm back to sleeping. My
natural clock is eleven am to wake up. That's my
natural clock. And I and I can go to sleep
at two or three in the morning and it just
(01:51):
feels great. So that's what my body is supposed to do.
I think we all have different clocks. Now. I have
to wake up at three thirty four, and I've been
doing it since I was twenty two, so for a
long time, and I'm still not used to it, and
I will never get used to it. It's not what
I'm supposed to do. And when I meet somebody was like,
(02:12):
I love waking up at four o'clock and having a
coffee and exercising. That's like you're speaking Mandarin to me.
Totally don't understand it. Well. I think I got into
it when I had kids and they started going to
school and it was like that rush before school. I
was like, how can I do this where I'm not
immediately fulfilling a role for someone like first thing in
(02:33):
the morning, because that sucks. I want to be a
person with my own thoughts, in my own way of
being in the world before I become mom. So do
you not have to wake up as early anymore? I've
been getting up at seven? Okay? I mean I like
getting up at five because I go for a super
long run and I can like meditate and like you
(02:54):
like getting up at five, I do like it, but
I'm not doing it. I'm staying up late. I'm hanging
with friends. I have like a nightlife now because I've
gone through divorce. My life is a little different now.
You know you when you came in, you were singing
the background vocals for Dustin Lynch, and it just escapes
me what song it was. But did you also write
(03:15):
this song or did you just sing on it? Because
people love you for all different reasons, and it's crazy.
They may call you to sing or they you may
write right exactly I am calling in more vocal sessions,
Like that's something that I specifically said out loud like
a month ago, and I've gotten called to sing on
(03:37):
like three or four different records this last month. So
it's like a God universe thing saying yes, you should
be doing that. Um, do you believe that you put
it out there therefore it's happening? Did you allow it
to be heard by others? And they knew? Like, how
do you explain that? Well? I didn't grow up in
a religious home, but my grandmother, you know, was men
(04:00):
a night and my grandpa was like a preacher's son,
and so both of she married an atheist and he
just didn't ever like send his kids to church. But
lots of like Christian you know values are instilled in
my family just because of the way that they were raised.
But I really wasn't. My dad was an atheist my
(04:22):
whole life until he was like diagnosed with cancer last year,
which totally changed everything, and he got way into Ramdas
and got into um the soul. You know, how did
you feel about that? When he was obviously something traumatic
was happening, but he was not the cancer part. But
(04:43):
what happened because that he started to have a fundamental change. Well,
it's been great for me. They used to drop me
off at church, like when I was little, they would
like drop me off. He'd be like, does this bother you?
They were just like dropping you off. And I was
just drawn to it. I've always been drawn to spirituality,
so um, so that was zing from me when this happened. Obviously,
there was a lot of pain and there was a
(05:04):
lot of grief around like my hero the superhero, like
getting cancer and like crying to me on the phone
and you know, talking about death and all these different things.
And but really it transformed my family. It definitely transformed
my dad and my relationship with him. Um. Which was
amazing because it happened at the very same time as
(05:24):
my divorce, so it was almost like this one man
was like leaving my life and then the O g
like my original man coming coming back in with all
this intimate, amazing conversation. And I can't remember why we
started talking about that. What was I saying? What I
was asking was do you feel like that you put
(05:45):
it into or do you feel like you literally just
said to people, hey, if something comes open, I think
it's both. I put it on Instagram, so you kind
of got that. What do you put on Instagram? Though? Like,
how do you say that? How do you how do
you say that? I took a picture of me with
my new rig sitting at my desk, and I said, Hey,
call your girl if you want some bucksty sprinkles on
(06:06):
your music. Like I look at myself, like I just
love collaborating. I mean, it was always hard for me
to be an artist, um, because so much of it
is about branding, which I really have to work hard
to like get in that mindset. Like I really love
just collaboration. I love the the making of it so much,
(06:29):
and then when it comes time to like package it,
I have to try really hard to like stay focused. Um.
But um, that's what I love about the way that
my career has worked out, is like it's turned out.
There's all these different facets of it, and I now
I'm releasing my own music again, and I'm not scared
of I would. I would welcome anyone that wants to
(06:51):
come into my life and help me branded. That's not
what I'm good at. But I love putting the music
out and I love singing on other people's music, and
I love writing songs with people. The best thing about
being a songwriter is like you could be in this
mode in the morning, in this right and then in
the evening go being a totally different zone and you
(07:13):
don't have to be so attached to it being anything.
I just like the the cornucopia of different collaborations, you know.
Speaking to that a friend of mine, Eric Passley, who
was just a wonderful writer, he's a great artist, and
you did a song with him, and I remember seeing
what was the name of that song, Well, we have
(07:34):
it right, yeah, but I remember you distinctly singing on
here's the clip up right here, yeah, heartbeat higher. Yeah.
So and that's what I meant. That's like, I never
know how you've been involved in a project, like you
(07:55):
will come in and sing with Dustin and then written
this song and then you're so I but I think
that's probably with you being like me, Like I have
a lot of things that I try to do and
try to do them well. But that's just the fulfillment
for me is to be in a lot of places
because I need to be stretched and doing different things
that I get bored very easily, so do I. So, Yeah,
(08:17):
I like to be pushed, And the best way to
get pushed is to really like let someone into the
process that has a different process. That's how I look
at it. Like the new I'm working on some new
music with an acoustic guitar. Well, he plays all kinds
of stuff, but he's a guitar player and he approaches
things from a different place than I do. And I
just love inviting people that I'm like, bring your whole
(08:40):
self to this, like push me like beyond my normal boundaries.
And it's just that's to me, the best way to
learn all the different things that you can do. You know,
you have a nightlife, now you have a new et
you But we're going to go through a lot of this.
But what I want to talk about first is I
program a national all weekend show called the Women of
(09:01):
Our Country and I played your song reign like this
on our Women of Our Country show. And here's a
clip of that right here. So it isn't going away
this fun. Maybe I can never stay load this, honey.
(09:22):
You can keep your hands because it feels solm to know.
So you've never gone to change as it duds run
down my face, But it isn't gone away. Laugh far. So,
with you being such a prolific songwriter, should I assume
that you wrote these songs arts so that your voice
your your voice and your voice my voice and yeah,
(09:45):
both voices. I love that. Yeah, so you're your double
voice in these Yeah, exactly with that track. I heard it,
And I think we all relate to our own story
inside of whatever story you're sharing. Meaning I know the
this is your personal story. But I think what is
universal is is it always gonna reign like this? We
(10:06):
always feel like that at some point and not just
some point over and over again. It's a constant battle
that we're going through, Like, man, this kind of sucks
right now? Is it always gonna suck like this? How
do I not have it suck like this? Is it? Me?
Is it? I think it's a it's an internal struggle.
So when I heard the song, it struck me because
I felt, wow, first of all, a great song. It
sounds great. He sounds great obviously, But tell me about
(10:28):
writing this song and just where you were in your
life and even in that room when you sat down
to write it. Well, this was right that I wrote
this about three weeks after I told my husband that
I didn't want to be married anymore. So I had
moved into a different room in the house and the
(10:49):
kids didn't know at the time. Um, and it just sucked.
I mean I never you know, nobody's divorced in my family.
This is actually my second divorce. I'll be honest. I
was married for like three months when I was twenty one.
So I mean it doesn't thank you, Okay, thank you,
(11:10):
but technically if you look it up, you know it's
in there. But UM, it just was awful and um,
you know to me, like when I had no idea
that my dad at the time had cancer. And so
the story I'm kind of going forward a little past
the time that I wrote it. Um, but I've had
to really learn how to like feel really hard feelings
(11:34):
I am. I tend to like really avoid pain, and UM,
I avoid like I've avoided, you know, getting out of
this marriage for a really long time because I just
didn't want to feel how I thoroughly actually felt underneath,
and so kind of going into those things. I've learned
(11:56):
how to cry, like really cry like a baby, and
I've learned how to Um. I guess they say in
that book what non violent communication, They say, like you
need like ninety seconds of like pure emotion to like
fully process what you're feeling. But um, I've never heard that. Yeah,
I don't know that I've ever experienced ninety seconds of
(12:16):
pure emotion. I'm like you, I don't. I think I
had so much trauma as a kid that I and
i've after we finished this half an hour after therapy today,
and what we deal with and it's just funny to
bring that up is I never get too higher too low,
which allows which doesn't allow me to feel the highs
because I refuse to feel the lows. Smart, I mean,
(12:38):
like much respect because yeah, well I don't I would
let myself think high. I don't, Okay, go ahead, I would.
I mean I've always been I mean I am a
you know, I've been diagnosed. I don't think I have
manic depression. I don't think I am bipolar. I've been
like diagnosed by people that would like say that I'm
(12:58):
not manic depressive. I'm not even depressed. I'm not I
don't have bipolar. So so so I just didn't know how
to feel my feelings. And I needed to eat a sandwich,
and I needed sleep and water. So there was things
like at that time, those times in my life. But
you know, I'm I'm not in my twenties anymore, and
just now I'm now I'm like okay to me like this,
(13:22):
And and once I started feeling, I'm like, when is
this going to end? Like? Will I keep crying like this? Like? Well,
I was this just gonna go on and on? And
the answer is no, because you do process the feeling
and you do make decisions that and make you start
to change your life and you start to make choices
(13:44):
and realize this person just constantly makes me feel this
way and it's okay, it's not unloving to detach myself
from that situation. Um, I'm curious when you write a
song like this if because you mentioned and I struggle
with that too, feeling you know, ninety seconds feels like
an eternity and that's just like a year. I mean wow,
(14:07):
When you said that, I was like, I've never heard
that before, and it feels like ten minutes whenever you
write a song that is. And I'm not gonna stand
this song the whole, the whole you know interview here,
but this song touched me and that's why I grabbed it.
Was like, wait, let me just play it. But I
wonder because I struggle with communication, being extremely vulnerable with
people and feeling emotion unless there's some sort of i'm
(14:31):
gonna call it a facade of a microphone in front
of me. If I'm on a stage and I'm doing
a motivational talk, I can go into places that I
could not if these microphones were not in front of us.
Right now, I could never have this conversation with you,
and it's you know what, it's a real conversation. But
because I have like a my Clark can't glasses here
with this microphone, you can't really it feels like, well,
(14:53):
I still can't really tell who I am. And I
wonder when you write a song like this and you
talk about struggling with emotion, already you in that room
the same way I do a microphone where it's like
this is safe. Yeah, it doesn't matter how deep you go.
I can go places here that I can't go other places.
So I wrote this with Maddie Diaz and Kate York,
who are two of my best friends, and it was
coming out of which I had no creative outlet really,
(15:16):
but I mean I had like a garden and like
that but like, um, I mean like I had some
creative outlets, but like in cooking, but there was no
in person rights. And I was in Idaho with my family,
which I do every summer, and I was just like,
I want to make music here this place where I
feel so at home in nature, and so I invited
(15:38):
them up and we got this cabin and Fisher Creek
in Idaho, and and to me, that was the thing,
was like we were out in nature. We were like
sitting around a fire. Everybody was like barefoot, just in swimsuits,
just fat roles, hanging out. Nobody cares like everybody's just
hanging hiking, smell, you know, taking naps every but it
(16:00):
was just relaxed. And it was on that trip that
I actually realized that I needed to get this divorce,
Like this is has to happen now, and it was
really hard to wrap my mind around it. But we
were so at home with each other. I mean, I
don't feel I feel so myself with these girls, Like
it was so honest and they were just so supportive
(16:20):
and that the song just was really intimate the project.
And we'll get back to it. It's called Moon Riser,
so you can find all all five tracks there. And
I'll ask this quickly because I do want to get
into kind of the origin story of you in here,
and then we come back to this. But why moon riser?
Every night? That was like the main event. Like we
would have like a rhythm of the day. We'd hike
(16:42):
in the morning and then start writing around twelve or so,
eleven twelve, we'd write a couple of songs. That afternoon,
we would take a quick nap. Everybody would like get up,
maybe shower, but we would like start a fire, maybe shower,
like start a fire, kind of get dinner, going, eat dinner,
and like start writing. And but when the moon would
(17:05):
start rising, we'd be like, oh, she's coming up, She's
coming up. And just imagine over this ridge with these
all these dead trees. They have all these dead trees.
I don't know whether actually there's a Japanese beetle that's
why they're dead. But like the moon would come up
and we would just be like whoa, you know, just
like howl at it, and just it was like the
(17:25):
moment of our of our night. And we didn't know
what these songs were for. We weren't necessarily writing them
for an EP for me. We're just like writing. Were
they all written in this? Actually there was two trips.
There was one in Idaho and then there was another
one outside us. It was a signal mountain, same vibe, people,
same people, same thing, watching the moon rise, screaming at it,
(17:49):
yelling at it. Fire. Nobody, nobody died, nobody got eaten
by a wolf. Nothing, nobody got eaten by a victory itself.
No one of us came back and decided to get
a divorce. But that was all the damage that was done.
(18:09):
Growing up in Kansas? And did you grow up in
Lawrence or near Lawrence? I grew up in Lawrence. Have
you been to Lawrence? I have because I've played a
couple of shows in the school. Yeah. Yeah, because of
the University of Kansas. It is a cool town. So
but Kansas is KU. Yeah yeah, Kentucky is UK. Kansas
(18:34):
is k You did you? Are you a Jayhawk fan? Hell? Yeah? Okay?
So are you? Do you know that they're about to
play in a couple of days. By the time this
has heard, they're playing this you know this weekend or
the number one seas Oh my gosh, how do you
feel about that? I feel really good about it. It's
good to know. Well, my my family is always pretty down.
At the beginning of the season, everybody's like, oh, they
(18:55):
look horrible, you know, and everybody's like so down about it.
But then as things go on, I mean, we're really
lucky to have Why Lawrence, Kansas, Like why why did
your parents have you and have the family in Lawrence Camps. Well,
my mother was born there, my grant her parents grew
up in Neudora, which is just outside of Lawrence, but
they raised their kids in Lawrence. And my dad grew
(19:19):
up in Ransom, Kansas in Western Kansas, and he went
to KU And so my parents were both at KU
student teachings What's in your Blood and they met camping.
They went out like camping and they fell in love. Like,
oh yeah, it's in my blood. Did you go to
school there at all? Or did you just move off
and start being creative? Um? I did not go to
school there. I came to Belmont, Okay, so you had
(19:40):
you moved off to be creative. I mean Belmont is
a school where if you're going to do music almost
Oh yeah, I mean I understand that because I am
a die hard Arkansas Razor bake fan. I'm from Arkansas.
That's all we have. We don't have a protein. The Kansas.
They the Royals kind of split that with but they
would always lose. The Royals only started winning recently, and
(20:01):
same with the Chiefs, like it was just not the
best and like, hey, you, so you moved to Belmont
and I couldn't go to the University of Arkansas because
I was already working. I had to chase me and
it would hurt me so bad to not go to
school there because I had loved and adored but I
had to go and chase this dream. So you moved
to Nashville and you you you come to Belmont, But
(20:23):
why Belmont? Like what did you think you were going
to do by going to school in Nashville? Well, I
actually wanted to go to Berkeley in Boston and my
mom was like, no, it's too close to New York City.
And basically I don't trust you. Were you were you
a troubled kids? Know? I was like, I was actually
(20:44):
most honorable senior and my I don't know why she didn't.
I think she was just maybe it wasn't that she
didn't trust me. Okay, okay, I'm gonna be completely honest
with you right now. Okay. I something happened to me
in high school, Like a group of girls really broke
my heart. We're good now, we've all made up, but
they really broke my heart, and um it changed me.
(21:07):
Like that was kind of when I became a songwriter.
And like, I don't know how to say this other
than it was dark. It really hurt me, like big time,
and I questioned everything about my life. Um, I had
grown up like I was like such a good kid.
I was a people pleaser, like in grade school, and
I did go through something like when I was in
(21:28):
junior high I had like severe pretty severe anorexia. Um
so I've been through some things. But by the time
I got into high school, I mean I had like
a great time. I was in a cross country, I
was in band, I was inquired, and I was like
getting good grades and I had the best boyfriend ever,
Like he was such a great guy, you know, no
(21:49):
trouble there. But then that happened and I was just
like okay, everything from the clothes that I was wearing
to just my approach to life. I honestly feel like
it brought me into my artistry. I know that sounds
kind of crazy, but it was a catalyst. And um,
in college is when I really started exploring the wilder
(22:12):
side of life. And I guess I asked that because
maybe your mom was just super protective coming from Kansas.
Maybe it was New York City. She was afraid of
more than you going to more than me, because me
growing up in Arkansas, we were scared of it. That
wasn't a real place. That was a place on TV exactly.
So you you moved to Nashville, seems safer. Anyway. I
(22:33):
wasn't interested in singing country music, and so Berkeley was
more appealing to me. And when I first moved to Nashville,
I was really interested in like more rock and roll
because you did like a southern rock. I had a
jam b did you? Was it jams? And you did
new new songs, original original songs. Was original songs and
(22:54):
no and cover songs. And we were kind of um
doing it the way like Widespread Panic had done. It
was the that's what I hear. Oh God, it was
like I had a gym bay. I had like velvet
tide eyed skirts and like a gym bay, and like
bills around my ankles, and I mean it was fun.
(23:15):
We had so much fun. Traveling group of folks was
quite the scene. Oh, it was so much fun. We
played frat parties and like old miss and we went
to Arkansas. We played in Fayetteville and like it was
this southeast. What was the goal with that though? It
was to grow and to be part of that of
(23:37):
that scene. It was never to have like necessarily like
radio songs. It was all about the jam. It was
all about the show and like the energy and the connection.
But my voice just got tired of screaming and singing
that loud over two drum sets. And like you had
two drummers, I had two drummers. Yeah, and um, but
that's like some Doobie Brothers type stuff. It was Allman Brothers,
(24:00):
Dubie Brothers, UM. And we covered Almond Brothers and Dubie Brothers.
But um. Then one day in a dressing room here,
Eva Cassidy was playing in a UM. Are you in
college while this is happening? I was in college. Actually
I dropped out. I only went to Beaumont for basically
like a year before this story. You went for a year.
(24:21):
I just want to know why you went with the
intention to study what um just vocal performance and it
wasn't and it was very classical, So I wasn't getting
very good. It wasn't the country and it was classical.
It was classical, and it was very like. They let
me in on probation because they could tell I had
some rasp in my voice and that they were concerned about.
So it was always like, what does that mean? Promation
(24:43):
like you're going to jail if you suck, Like we're
gonna let you in, but if you don't do well. Right,
Maybe it wasn't called probable and the music penitentiary. Yeah wait,
maybe it had another name, like we'll see how this
goes with her name. Yeah, maybe I don't know. You're
you're okay, So let's go back to where you were.
So you're you're touring, You're in a room. Who did
you run into? So I heard an Eva Cassidy song
(25:06):
and she is I don't know, okay, you gotta check
her out. She's incredible. She's no longer living. She had
I think melanoma and died really young, but she became
it was posthumus that she became famous. And she has
incredible records. I mean any of you listening should check out.
It's e v A Cassidy. I mean, she's incredible and
(25:28):
it's just the most pure voice, and she's an angel.
She's I don't know else to say it, she's just
an angel. And I was just trying on some clothes
in addressing room and it just stopped me in my tracks.
I'm like, to the to the door, I'm like who
is this and they're like, this is Eva Cassidy. So
I went home and started listening to her music and
I was like, I am quitting this band. I just
(25:50):
wanted to hearing that vocal or do you remember what
it was? Remember the exact song or the record because
it was fields of Gold because you struck so much?
Oh yeah, it's called um. It wasn't feel gold. It
was a founded picture. It's called um. Time is a healer,
(26:13):
like we find that? Please? If I hear this song,
then I decided to go into like wrote it management.
I'm gonna be mad at mad at you. You may
me pivot my my career. Let's listen here the Burden
lit banger. It's the chorus that I love pay Do
(26:42):
you hear this and you're so struck? Why? What about
this spoke to you specifically the clarity in her voice.
I was pushing my voice so hard, and I just
loved the clarity in her voice and like the simplicity
of it. It was more song driven, and my other
(27:03):
songs with so Wicko we're jam driven. Still. Wickoka is
a pretty good name, though. Yeah, it was like it
was a fun thing. You know, you had put out
some songs yourself in the music world. Um, I want
to play for you in a sense, is from two
(27:23):
thousand six, he says, young. That was a top forty song.
This is a top thirty song. This is that kind
of Dave, It's time to s this is a this
(27:45):
is a number in the twenties. This is outside my
window two thousand nine. No, no long just a big
ring that. She doesn't sound Those were really hard years
(28:05):
for me. She doesn't It doesn't sound like I always
said back then. I was like, I was like, I
feel like I live five ft in front of my body.
I was never in my body. I was always like,
just like, let's go. Like I kind of had this.
I mean, I feel a little vulnerable saying this, but
I'm just gonna say anyway, Um, I kind of felt
(28:27):
like country music. I looked at like what Keith Urban
was doing and like he was a huge expander from
me because it was like really good music, like Golden
Road obsessed, like it was just good music. And um,
I guess I had this feeling like if my music
was just good, that I would somehow get to a
(28:52):
place where I then could kind of do what I want.
I saw people just like I had no idea, like
how hard it was to have a hit. I just
had no idea. I guess I kind of didn't think
it was going to be that challenging, and I was wrong.
I think it goes back a bit too too, Like
you just I don't realize. I don't know if you
realize you said it, but you're like, you know, make
good music and then it all happens. But it's not
(29:14):
just about making good music. It's also the promotion. It's
also the stars aligning. I mean, and I always had
this feeling like wherever I would look like, oh my god,
they're aligning over there, run you know, to go over
where they are aligning, and like, okay, I'll go do that,
like rather than just being yourself and like seeing if
(29:39):
they align. But that's a more sustainable way. I think
to have a career doesn't mean you'll be successful, but
at least you'll be fulfilled. I've learned the same lesson
that I've tried it a lot of different ways, and
that if I continue to try in my most honest way,
even if I fail, I really lies that I was
(30:02):
at least me when I failed, which is way better
than failing when I wasn't exactly me, because then I'm going, man,
if I had have just been me, who knows. It's
the worst to fail when you're not being completely authentic.
It's the worst. It sucks to fail if it's you,
but you always but you realize, well, at least this
is me, this is my stuff. Yeah yeah, but it
(30:24):
really sucks whenever you weren't your exact true self and
it bombed and you're like, why did I do that? Right?
Do you feel that way with? It's awful? I hate
hearing it. I hate it if you tag it. If
somebody tags me and they're like, oh my god, like
Sarah Bucks, then outside my window and they put like
I would never post that on my stories, Like it's
(30:46):
such a it was such a hard time. Would you
if you were let's say you're playing a show, would
you play outside my Window? Never? No? Never again? Okay, well,
let me play this is Stupid Boy. This is on
your EP first two seven. That's now. I mean, we'll
(31:13):
talk about the massive success that song had with Keith Urban,
but when you hear that back, that's okay. I was
gonna ask that sound the same as the other song, right,
and it was treated differently on the record. We cut
it with no click track, which is something you would
never do if it was going to be a single.
So you had a little more freedom to to go
your own way, even in very small details. But you
(31:36):
weren't right on with how exactly supposed to be right now,
I'll say Innocence is a is one that I feel
like I was being more authentic to, like that's an
actual story and it's like so, but yeah, I'm with you,
like Stupid Boy was totally. There's just these songs that
(31:57):
are gifts. That's a kind of land and you don't
really remember. I mean, I can tell you, like the
beginning of how that song was written, but I'm curious
because you write it and then you put it on
your record, and then did it until Keith Nicole and
we'll get to that story and a second until it
was discovered and redone like did it reach its peak?
(32:18):
It was just a song that you were proud of
that existed, and they kind of went away. Um, No,
I I felt that it was really special, like when
I for me, Like I I felt like it was
special for me. And then and then he heard it
like I I it was just special to me. I knew.
(32:39):
I knew the day that I wrote it. I was like, damn,
I love this song. It was like a new a
new thing for me. How did he hear it? Well,
Betsy uh Cook was her name at the time. Now
she has a different last name, and then her name
became Betsy mqugh. But um, she was working for Boorman,
(33:00):
Keith's manager at the time, and she's my age, really
good friend of mine, and we were just meeting. She
says that she played it for him on the bus.
And then I've heard Dan say that he played it
for Keith, So I'm not quite sure. We'd have to
ask Keith how we heard it. But I heard that
Betsy played it for him on the bus, and it
wasn't like do you want to cut this song. It
was like, we really want you to meet this girl,
(33:22):
because you know, it wasn't even about the song exactly,
it was about art. Yeah, and that was the song
she picked to play, So it wasn't the ones they
were thinking of as singles. It was like just the
one that she thought Keith would like. Well, imagine if
I had approached everything that way. But and the song
probably that she thought best represented you as a person. Yes,
here is Keith's Stupid Boy. By the way, Here you go,
(33:51):
CM a song of the your nomination at one Keith
a Grammy Vocal performance. And you know, all the sudden
you have written a massive hit, right And it wasn't
all of a sudden. And that's what's funny is you
wrote it, you recorded it, you're proud of it, you
love it. Then all of a sudden years later you
have a massive hit. Right now? Does that change people's
(34:13):
perception of you as a songwriter in this town versus
the artist? Only? Oh, I was so lucky that that
happened for the longevity of like my life and just
the way that I'm happy where I'm at right now,
and like I'm that I would never be right exactly
where I was if that hadn't happened. So, if I'm
getting this right, you stayed and the stars aligned over you. Oh, Finny,
(34:39):
that's amazing. Look how we just did that. I'm just
all I'm doing is observing and that that was the
stars doing what they're supposed to do, exactly in the
place that you're supposed to be living. I want to
play a few more and this this will not be
exactly um and you know the order we're telling the
story here. But some song because that Sarah's written another
(35:01):
Keith Urban song, put you in a song, Here you Go.
That's a good one. That's a good one. The vand Perry.
This peaked at number two according to this chart. In
Here's Don't let Me Be Lonely. By the way, both
(35:23):
of those songs peaked at number two. Yeah. Oh, and
there was all so put you in a song Stupid Boy,
and that was all number two. Stupid Boy was the
number two number two. I was talking to Keith Um
because Keith and I are friendly. We're more than just acquaintances.
But we don't hang. He's gone all the time, but
(35:44):
we're friendly enough where we can actually have a good
conversation about microphone, Yeah exactly, And so when we do
have a microphone, he opens up a little more. I
feel because he trust that I'm not going to take
him somewhere he doesn't want to go. We were talking
about maybe it was take you a kids and take
you for you know, yeah, you'll think you'll think of me.
(36:05):
Maybe that one, No, it was fly whatever. One of
his biggest songs are often the ones that weren't number one,
like his career biggest songs the songs that he has
known for and Stupid Boys one of them. Yeah, right,
weren't number one song. That number one is a chart. Uh,
(36:26):
it's a business plan by a record label. But that
doesn't mean that these number two songs aren't heavier in
people's hearts, right exactly? Number two is that is not funny?
Ironic a bit? Well, everybody was like, oh my god,
like is it ever going to happen? When I finally
got a number one, they were like, oh my god,
(36:48):
was it? The f GL song was like your first
one Sundays. To be honest, I don't know if it
was that one or fixed. I don't know which I
can tell you because I have the years. Yeah, it
was f G. L here and then two years later,
because it doesn't mean you wrote them two years apart,
(37:09):
because so you could rid them on the same day.
I don't know at the same time. Yeah, here's Chris
Lane Fix. You know, one of my favorite songs, and
she's just one of my favorite people. And I took
her and she opened for me. And one of the
great things that I get to do is take an
artist that I love because I just want to watch them.
(37:30):
And Jillian Jacqueline is that for me, and I just
I just love her who she is, her voice, her style,
like everything about her, and so I'm a big Jillian
Jacqueline fan. Remember we should put out reasons. I was like,
this is a good song, and you wrote that I'm
gonna play that here here you go. So that is
(38:01):
a very small nutshell, but of your body of work
as a songwriter over the past few years that people
would know from the radio, we got a lot of
other stuff. The question that I was gonna ask you
it kind of leads into where we are now. I
mean I was thinking about it before you came over.
And because you're wildly creative, do you ever go in
and let's say, just for the sake of this. The
name of the song is walking down the Street. Okay,
(38:23):
you go in, you say, I want to do the
song walking down the street. You guys write the song
talk about one day you walk down the street and
you ran into an old friend and that old friend
dat song over and that song really doesn't nothing really
happens with it. Maybe it's not that great, maybe it's
cut by the wrong person, if it gets cut at all,
(38:44):
and you're like, well, I like that idea, but what
we did there with it wasn't right. So when you
go into a room and go have the song about
walking down the street, yes, another room with other people,
your same idea, but collaboration with people that you work
in different ways with and then you present it to
them and I did that you thought may have worked
(39:05):
over here almost still the same idea to other people
and then actually turned into something. Does that ever happened
with you? Yeah. It's a thing about taking a title
back and taking a concept back. I think the way
you have to do it is just trust that you've
put enough kindness in the bank with people to be like, Okay,
that song that we wrote that is doing nothing that
(39:26):
hasn't gotten cut and it's just sitting there. I'm going
to take that title and you tell them, Oh, you
have to tell them. I think you need to tell
them because I would have called it be boffing down
the street my second version with I've definitely done that.
So but there are times where you've not been satisfied
with the result of an idea for who it could
have been your fault too, totally much as anyone else's,
(39:48):
and you go, man, we just didn't hit it, like
I want to use this idea though again, and you
go to a different room of different people, but you
will say, hey, room ay, that was good, I gotta
take it back. Are they usually receptive to that? I
mean most people are. I mean most people I work
with are. I'm sure there's people that aren't. But I
feel like I have one good idea to take it,
(40:08):
like thirty rooms the same exact idea, and I just
take it over and over. I took it. I actually texted,
and I'm kind of learning not to do this. I
think the lesson is don't do this. But like I
texted a friend and was like, I have a song
I want to write with you. It's called this, and
it's about without no no no no. But then but then,
(40:28):
but then you know, I don't have anything scheduled with them,
and then I'm actually tomorrow wanting to go in and it.
And so I had to text my friend and go,
I don't want you to think I'm cheating on you,
but I am taking that title back. And he actually goes, oh,
that's funny, because like I just gave a title to
so and so, and I think I'm going to take
it back. And I was like, here's your chance. Said earlier,
(40:52):
is that if you have enough kindness in the bank, yeah,
people will give you grace quicker, yeah, and probably fuller
than if you don't. I am learning that. That is,
if you're generally pretty kind to people, like treat people well,
let them know how much you love them, like when
you see them, really let them know that you can.
(41:14):
There's just more you can trust how much people love you.
You can really trust it. And I'm not a big
trust you, but I know what you're saying. That's also
what I'm going to therapy, like half an hour. You
can trust it. I am getting better. Yeah, you can,
you really can. I encourage you to. But that doesn't
mean like you can just go be don't worry. I
(41:35):
won't awful, but I'm generally not going to be awful
to someone generally, but occasionally I'm kid. We all have,
we all have, we all have. So whenever you decide
to finally put out your own project, M and you're
(41:59):
right in these saw do you is it purposeful that
you go, I want to do a project for me,
or do you go I want to go and write
a lot of songs And you start to go, wow,
this actually just kind of I is me? I identifying
that so usually, And it's been that ever since I
broke the seal and decided to start releasing stuff. I
think it was two thousand nineteen. I put a song out.
(42:20):
It was like the first one I've had in forever,
but it was called Only the Truth. But like since then,
I've been putting things out, but it was always things.
Only the Truth I did write for me, and then
I wrote Signs of Life. That EP was written for me.
Moon Riser was about I mean songs, you know your
(42:41):
life comes into your song, so it was about my
life and I ended up putting it out not knowing
when we recorded him that it would be for me.
But now I'm making another record and I'm actually really
um inspired to write for it, and it's a different
kind of it's gonna be a little more indie like
(43:02):
pop kind of. I think this is your problem. We're
here talking about another record. You're already promoting something else,
and you're like, I don't know how to promost stuff, don't, okay,
So it just makes stuff. It's a problem that we
will talk about. Then let's the truth comes out, you see,
Let's play perfect example, this Young from Moon Riser. I'm
(43:23):
never gonna be this young. I'm never gonna be this
green again. Times gonna do what time does? It's gonna
change everything? Are you looking back? Last and all the
beautiful pass stick? This is the next track, hard Things
(43:50):
Here you go. So don't tell me that I'm fratto,
not strong enough to leave. Maybe this CP is like
my vibe completely because I like slow and I like sad,
(44:12):
and I like uh not a lot of electric instruments
like that's if I have a choice. I was just
and I haven't listened it in a while, but I
was I'm having like shoulder rehab, hurt my shoulder like
a year ago, and so the lady was working on
my shoulder and I picked up We have a juke
box over the house and I always pick up a
full album to listen to. And I listened to the
Nirvana Unplugged album because one of my favorite albums ever,
(44:35):
you know, I mean ever and so, but from beginning
to end, and like, that's my vibe, this is my
love that. That's such a good reference. I haven't listened
to that in so long. I listened to that thing
so many times. I even know the word for word,
the spoken parts. This is a song by the meat Pup.
It's just like I can, I can go along with it.
(44:55):
Record um on the roof. This is a trick for
does up singing it up to the moon? We should you?
Why on the roof? It's too happy for me? But whatever,
(45:17):
Hey they can't you? I'm little too happy. And then
here's a runaway love number five. I love the project.
(45:38):
I'm gonna only for thirty seconds. I'm gonna ask you
about the next project you're working because I want to
make it about that. And I know as a creative
it's always like what are you doing now? Instead of what?
But what what? What's the difference in the project you're doing,
you're currently creating. Well. I we were talking earlier about
wanting to stretch your boundaries and do something that you've
never done, and Um I asked Todd Lombardo to produce.
(46:00):
He's an incredible acoustic guitar player, and we we came
up with the process originally because I was trying to
like save money and do something kind of on the cheap,
and so I was like, if if it was going
to be just you and I collaborating, and I was
just going to send him songs that have fallen off
of other projects. I was like, who's one person that
(46:21):
you would call to um work with? And he said
Nott Smith, who was a cello player that basically comes
up with cello parts that sound like keyboard parts. He
like fingerpicks it and he bows too, but he plays
like in the bluegrass world with like Sarah Jarros and
all kinds of different people. And in the studio that day,
(46:42):
I was surprised, like he didn't want to do these
other songs, like anything that sounded to country. He was like,
and I told him, I was like, I want this
to be full on collaboration. I want you to be
a huge part of this, and so the songs that
he picked were really interesting. The whole other thing, but
like the process and watching the two of them work
(47:06):
and the way that room felt made me want to
write specifically, like for that. And it's a different type
like one of the songs I I wrote with another artist,
and I was imagining it kind of being like a
Jackson Brown sounding song with like pretty normal chords and
the melodies sounds like a Jackson Brown melody to me.
(47:26):
And I sent it to Todd with no instrumentation behind it,
and he put these chords underneath it took it in
a completely different direction than I ever would have imagined,
and I was like, well, that's pretty amazing. And so, yeah,
I wanted to be about the record. I don't necessarily
want it to be like it all starts with a
(47:49):
song necessarily for this project, I kind of wanted it
to be like just a little more cerebral that when
it comes out we talk about that, yeah, exactly, and
now we're done talking about Now we're done. I want
people to get to know you as an artist, and
I hope they check out Moon Riiser because it is fantastic. Um,
(48:13):
I do want to play for you. Now. One of
my favorite songs that you wrote. I believe it was
number four in the Hot Country chart. It's a little
song by Mason Ramsey called Famous. That's such a good song,
(48:37):
Like if you take Yoto boy Mason Ramsey out of it,
that was such a good song. Like I think a
lot of people could have made that a smash. Yeah,
it did. It wouldn't matter who. I think you could
put Thomas rhet and so what I remember thinking when
he cut the song was Okay, this is good for
(48:57):
him because it's like famous for loving muse a it.
I was like, man, this song could have been a
massive h I mean, a monster for an established artist,
and they would have kicked the door down to get it.
I was hoping for f g L, Like that's what
I really wanted because Tyler's on it. I know, I
(49:18):
really thought it was going to be an f g
L song. And I didn't know you then. I knew
of you, and we had met and passing a couple
of times, and I didn't know that you'd written this
song at first. But I just remember hearing that song
and going out good for Mason Ramsey. You know, I
see what they're trying to do here right he had
that is such a great song they have gifted him. Yeah,
and just thinking if anybody else had this song, it
would be a monster. I know. Well, I just remember
(49:42):
being like originally going, he's so young. I mean, I
don't even know how young he was. How old was twelve?
Probably twelve? Yeah, probably twelve twelve? Talking about I want
to be famous for loving you. I guess boys would
get to more of that of a feeling than girls.
I don't know. When I was twelve, I wasn't thinking
about I guess I will was. There was boys when
I was twelve, But I think it's a boy to
(50:04):
your Do you think you know what it means? You know?
No way? But I loved it, and I thought that
was just a wonderful song. Um, and then lady A,
you wrote Ocean. Yeah, what was the name of that album?
Was name? Okay? That's yeah, that's what I was wondering. Yeah,
if you get the title, then that's what I I guess.
(50:25):
It's white Kid of my mind. If you get the
title track, do you really do you think it's gonna
be a single? I wasn't. I don't know. I hoped
that it would and the song. Actually, this was a
big realization for me. I was surprised they didn't pick
it as a single because it was streaming so well.
It was streaming better than there actual radio singles. Did
(50:47):
you maybe I know so much about this. Did you
write that? And I don't have this as in my notes,
I could be completely wrong. Did you write that with Tofur? Yeah?
I wrote that with Tofur, who wrote who I met
on the Jillian project? Ok, yeah, that's how I know
with the song because I know Tofur. Yeah, he's the best. Yeah,
and Abe Sto Classa got it and this is a
(51:07):
great song. And I think he too was. I was
talking to him at the time and he was like,
why is that not a single? Well, we learned it
was because it was streaming so well. Like the label
was making their money, you know what I mean, Like
we don't have to make another yes, Bobby, Hey, so
the label makes theirs, but you don't get to make yours. No.
But I was so proud of the way they recorded that.
(51:29):
If you listen to the way, um, Gordon Moate is
playing piano on that, and like they they took the
click out. I don't know if they ever had it in,
but like the way that they slowed down on that
last chorus just a little bit. I mean when I
heard that, I was literally just like, oh my god,
did they really just do that? Dan? Yes? It was
(51:51):
like so I was so proud. I thought, it's just
to have somebody cut your song and then have you
just be blown away by it. Such a great feeling.
She's sang them m she often does, but especially in
a song like that, She's so good. What did you
write today? Did you already write today? I did right
today with te Mecular Road. Oh yeah, was it about
(52:14):
walking on the street? Because if it was, no, But
I got that next. I got that in my head.
So do you come here tired? Meaning emotionally or mentally
tired from the right No, And I have learned I'm
just at a different place with my writing. I feel
like now that I've become just more prolific, and the
(52:34):
more the music that I'm releasing and the more I'm
letting myself just kind of be open about it. I
don't hold onto things anymore. I used to feel tired
at the end of rights because I was blocked. I
think my heart was blocked to just in my life
in general. And I just feel so much more open now,
and the lyrics that just everything just is flowing so
(52:56):
much easier for me, and the relation chip that I
have with those guys. It's just so good and it's
just a great day. I just I feel energized. Well,
I would be exhausted time I write anything. We writer
were writing comedy or I'm just like, oh my god,
I'm burnt. I've used every cell in my head to
(53:17):
try a funny as I possibly can. It's still not
even that funny. Maybe I should be trying harder. Maybe
that's what it is. Maybe maybe you only have massive
success because you haven't tried hard enough. I've got to
try harder. M one final note before we go, because
we've done over an hour, which I hope you've enjoyed this. Really,
I feel energized now. I'm not tired writ another song
I call walking down the Street. Um, we were look
(53:38):
you were nominated for This is not on my notes,
but I was maybe like two thousand eight, maybe two
thousand nine, and maybe both yours new female vocalists. It
was you, Taylor Swift and Kelly Pickler totally, and then
the next year it was me, possibly Kelly Pickler again
(54:01):
and Julienne Huff So I know Taylor one at year
one and Julianne wanted the next. Yeah, totally. That is that.
I mean, that's like it seems like a different life.
It was a different life. It really was. Um. I
remember getting botox that year because they were like so young,
(54:21):
and I was like looking at my face next to
their face, and I was like, I gotta put some stuff. Okay,
here's what's happening. Here's what's happening at Sarah Buxton Sarah
with an h and you can follow her and she
just sometimes post things like hey, I will sing for you,
I will come hook cook for you. Just postings like yeah,
just like I would like to sing more. I would
like to more, like right exactly. That's how she communicates.
(54:43):
So who knows, but at Sarah Buxton checkout Moon Riser.
It has been a real treat to spend an hour
with you, and it's been really cool. I've always been
a fan, usually from I wouldn't say five feet, from
like eight feet. Yeah, we're like one person away all
the time, you know, Dustin or if it's not tofur
(55:06):
or it's just you're right, there's not Eric. Now it's
three ft. Now we're extremely close. We're better, both better
for it. Well, thank you for sharing your story. Thank
you guys. Check out Moon Riser and check out Sarah
Buckston's Instagram. She could use the followers. I really could,
so could I frankly thanks, thank you,
Hey, welcome to episode three thirty eight. You're gonna love
Sarah Buxton. She is a singer songwriter with multiple number
ones and also multiple number two's. We talked about that
and how frustrating, still amazing, frustrating in the best way
to have two massive songs they go to number two.
She just put out an EP called Moon Riser and Rain,
(00:22):
like this is such a good song. Here you go.
She's written songs for F G Al, Chris Lane, Keith Urban.
We'll talk about that. From Kansas and you know, classic
small town America story traveled with the band. She was
nominated for a Big Artist Awards up against a major
(00:44):
star and I mean major, like a plus list star
in one of these It's it's good and you're just
gonna like her and her attitude and you know it
brings a great perspective and I've just been a fan
for a long time. So, without any further ado, you
here is Sarah Buxton at So all right, we're here
with Sarah Buxton. Which I have a couple of questions
(01:06):
I was thinking about before you came over. I'm gonna
get to them in a second. Before we get to
the traditional type you know, get to know your stuff.
But I think the last time that I saw you
was maybe you were in with Dustin Lynch early in
the morning. I just remember early. For me it was
it's late for lunch. For you, maybe early, but you
(01:29):
have that creative you know. I don't know. You sleep
later than I do. Probably I I'm both. I I
do the early morning thing, and I also like I
like mornings and evenings. I don't like mornings. I if
I have five days off, I'm back to sleeping. My
natural clock is eleven am to wake up. That's my
natural clock. And I and I can go to sleep
at two or three in the morning and it just
(01:51):
feels great. So that's what my body is supposed to do.
I think we all have different clocks. Now. I have
to wake up at three thirty four, and I've been
doing it since I was twenty two, so for a
long time, and I'm still not used to it, and
I will never get used to it. It's not what
I'm supposed to do. And when I meet somebody was like,
(02:12):
I love waking up at four o'clock and having a
coffee and exercising. That's like you're speaking Mandarin to me.
Totally don't understand it. Well. I think I got into
it when I had kids and they started going to
school and it was like that rush before school. I
was like, how can I do this where I'm not
immediately fulfilling a role for someone like first thing in
(02:33):
the morning, because that sucks. I want to be a
person with my own thoughts, in my own way of
being in the world before I become mom. So do
you not have to wake up as early anymore? I've
been getting up at seven? Okay? I mean I like
getting up at five because I go for a super
long run and I can like meditate and like you
(02:54):
like getting up at five, I do like it, but
I'm not doing it. I'm staying up late. I'm hanging
with friends. I have like a nightlife now because I've
gone through divorce. My life is a little different now.
You know you when you came in, you were singing
the background vocals for Dustin Lynch, and it just escapes
me what song it was. But did you also write
(03:15):
this song or did you just sing on it? Because
people love you for all different reasons, and it's crazy.
They may call you to sing or they you may
write right exactly I am calling in more vocal sessions,
Like that's something that I specifically said out loud like
a month ago, and I've gotten called to sing on
(03:37):
like three or four different records this last month. So
it's like a God universe thing saying yes, you should
be doing that. Um, do you believe that you put
it out there therefore it's happening? Did you allow it
to be heard by others? And they knew? Like, how
do you explain that? Well? I didn't grow up in
a religious home, but my grandmother, you know, was men
(04:00):
a night and my grandpa was like a preacher's son,
and so both of she married an atheist and he
just didn't ever like send his kids to church. But
lots of like Christian you know values are instilled in
my family just because of the way that they were raised.
But I really wasn't. My dad was an atheist my
(04:22):
whole life until he was like diagnosed with cancer last year,
which totally changed everything, and he got way into Ramdas
and got into um the soul. You know, how did
you feel about that? When he was obviously something traumatic
was happening, but he was not the cancer part. But
(04:43):
what happened because that he started to have a fundamental change. Well,
it's been great for me. They used to drop me
off at church, like when I was little, they would
like drop me off. He'd be like, does this bother you?
They were just like dropping you off. And I was
just drawn to it. I've always been drawn to spirituality,
so um, so that was zing from me when this happened. Obviously,
there was a lot of pain and there was a
(05:04):
lot of grief around like my hero the superhero, like
getting cancer and like crying to me on the phone
and you know, talking about death and all these different things.
And but really it transformed my family. It definitely transformed
my dad and my relationship with him. Um. Which was
amazing because it happened at the very same time as
(05:24):
my divorce, so it was almost like this one man
was like leaving my life and then the O g
like my original man coming coming back in with all
this intimate, amazing conversation. And I can't remember why we
started talking about that. What was I saying? What I
was asking was do you feel like that you put
(05:45):
it into or do you feel like you literally just
said to people, hey, if something comes open, I think
it's both. I put it on Instagram, so you kind
of got that. What do you put on Instagram? Though? Like,
how do you say that? How do you how do
you say that? I took a picture of me with
my new rig sitting at my desk, and I said, Hey,
call your girl if you want some bucksty sprinkles on
(06:06):
your music. Like I look at myself, like I just
love collaborating. I mean, it was always hard for me
to be an artist, um, because so much of it
is about branding, which I really have to work hard
to like get in that mindset. Like I really love
just collaboration. I love the the making of it so much,
(06:29):
and then when it comes time to like package it,
I have to try really hard to like stay focused. Um.
But um, that's what I love about the way that
my career has worked out, is like it's turned out.
There's all these different facets of it, and I now
I'm releasing my own music again, and I'm not scared
of I would. I would welcome anyone that wants to
(06:51):
come into my life and help me branded. That's not
what I'm good at. But I love putting the music
out and I love singing on other people's music, and
I love writing songs with people. The best thing about
being a songwriter is like you could be in this
mode in the morning, in this right and then in
the evening go being a totally different zone and you
(07:13):
don't have to be so attached to it being anything.
I just like the the cornucopia of different collaborations, you know.
Speaking to that a friend of mine, Eric Passley, who
was just a wonderful writer, he's a great artist, and
you did a song with him, and I remember seeing
what was the name of that song, Well, we have
(07:34):
it right, yeah, but I remember you distinctly singing on
here's the clip up right here, yeah, heartbeat higher. Yeah.
So and that's what I meant. That's like, I never
know how you've been involved in a project, like you
(07:55):
will come in and sing with Dustin and then written
this song and then you're so I but I think
that's probably with you being like me, Like I have
a lot of things that I try to do and
try to do them well. But that's just the fulfillment
for me is to be in a lot of places
because I need to be stretched and doing different things
that I get bored very easily, so do I. So, Yeah,
(08:17):
I like to be pushed, And the best way to
get pushed is to really like let someone into the
process that has a different process. That's how I look
at it. Like the new I'm working on some new
music with an acoustic guitar. Well, he plays all kinds
of stuff, but he's a guitar player and he approaches
things from a different place than I do. And I
just love inviting people that I'm like, bring your whole
(08:40):
self to this, like push me like beyond my normal boundaries.
And it's just that's to me, the best way to
learn all the different things that you can do. You know,
you have a nightlife, now you have a new et
you But we're going to go through a lot of this.
But what I want to talk about first is I
program a national all weekend show called the Women of
(09:01):
Our Country and I played your song reign like this
on our Women of Our Country show. And here's a
clip of that right here. So it isn't going away
this fun. Maybe I can never stay load this, honey.
(09:22):
You can keep your hands because it feels solm to know.
So you've never gone to change as it duds run
down my face, But it isn't gone away. Laugh far. So,
with you being such a prolific songwriter, should I assume
that you wrote these songs arts so that your voice
your your voice and your voice my voice and yeah,
(09:45):
both voices. I love that. Yeah, so you're your double
voice in these Yeah, exactly with that track. I heard it,
And I think we all relate to our own story
inside of whatever story you're sharing. Meaning I know the
this is your personal story. But I think what is
universal is is it always gonna reign like this? We
(10:06):
always feel like that at some point and not just
some point over and over again. It's a constant battle
that we're going through, Like, man, this kind of sucks
right now? Is it always gonna suck like this? How
do I not have it suck like this? Is it? Me?
Is it? I think it's a it's an internal struggle.
So when I heard the song, it struck me because
I felt, wow, first of all, a great song. It
sounds great. He sounds great obviously, But tell me about
(10:28):
writing this song and just where you were in your
life and even in that room when you sat down
to write it. Well, this was right that I wrote
this about three weeks after I told my husband that
I didn't want to be married anymore. So I had
moved into a different room in the house and the
(10:49):
kids didn't know at the time. Um, and it just sucked.
I mean I never you know, nobody's divorced in my family.
This is actually my second divorce. I'll be honest. I
was married for like three months when I was twenty one.
So I mean it doesn't thank you, Okay, thank you,
(11:10):
but technically if you look it up, you know it's
in there. But UM, it just was awful and um,
you know to me, like when I had no idea
that my dad at the time had cancer. And so
the story I'm kind of going forward a little past
the time that I wrote it. Um, but I've had
to really learn how to like feel really hard feelings
(11:34):
I am. I tend to like really avoid pain, and UM,
I avoid like I've avoided, you know, getting out of
this marriage for a really long time because I just
didn't want to feel how I thoroughly actually felt underneath,
and so kind of going into those things. I've learned
(11:56):
how to cry, like really cry like a baby, and
I've learned how to Um. I guess they say in
that book what non violent communication, They say, like you
need like ninety seconds of like pure emotion to like
fully process what you're feeling. But um, I've never heard that. Yeah,
I don't know that I've ever experienced ninety seconds of
(12:16):
pure emotion. I'm like you, I don't. I think I
had so much trauma as a kid that I and
i've after we finished this half an hour after therapy today,
and what we deal with and it's just funny to
bring that up is I never get too higher too low,
which allows which doesn't allow me to feel the highs
because I refuse to feel the lows. Smart, I mean,
(12:38):
like much respect because yeah, well I don't I would
let myself think high. I don't, Okay, go ahead, I would.
I mean I've always been I mean I am a
you know, I've been diagnosed. I don't think I have
manic depression. I don't think I am bipolar. I've been
like diagnosed by people that would like say that I'm
(12:58):
not manic depressive. I'm not even depressed. I'm not I
don't have bipolar. So so so I just didn't know how
to feel my feelings. And I needed to eat a sandwich,
and I needed sleep and water. So there was things
like at that time, those times in my life. But
you know, I'm I'm not in my twenties anymore, and
just now I'm now I'm like okay to me like this,
(13:22):
And and once I started feeling, I'm like, when is
this going to end? Like? Will I keep crying like this? Like? Well,
I was this just gonna go on and on? And
the answer is no, because you do process the feeling
and you do make decisions that and make you start
to change your life and you start to make choices
(13:44):
and realize this person just constantly makes me feel this
way and it's okay, it's not unloving to detach myself
from that situation. Um, I'm curious when you write a
song like this if because you mentioned and I struggle
with that too, feeling you know, ninety seconds feels like
an eternity and that's just like a year. I mean wow,
(14:07):
When you said that, I was like, I've never heard
that before, and it feels like ten minutes whenever you
write a song that is. And I'm not gonna stand
this song the whole, the whole you know interview here,
but this song touched me and that's why I grabbed it.
Was like, wait, let me just play it. But I
wonder because I struggle with communication, being extremely vulnerable with
people and feeling emotion unless there's some sort of i'm
(14:31):
gonna call it a facade of a microphone in front
of me. If I'm on a stage and I'm doing
a motivational talk, I can go into places that I
could not if these microphones were not in front of us.
Right now, I could never have this conversation with you,
and it's you know what, it's a real conversation. But
because I have like a my Clark can't glasses here
with this microphone, you can't really it feels like, well,
(14:53):
I still can't really tell who I am. And I
wonder when you write a song like this and you
talk about struggling with emotion, already you in that room
the same way I do a microphone where it's like
this is safe. Yeah, it doesn't matter how deep you go.
I can go places here that I can't go other places.
So I wrote this with Maddie Diaz and Kate York,
who are two of my best friends, and it was
coming out of which I had no creative outlet really,
(15:16):
but I mean I had like a garden and like
that but like, um, I mean like I had some
creative outlets, but like in cooking, but there was no
in person rights. And I was in Idaho with my family,
which I do every summer, and I was just like,
I want to make music here this place where I
feel so at home in nature, and so I invited
(15:38):
them up and we got this cabin and Fisher Creek
in Idaho, and and to me, that was the thing,
was like we were out in nature. We were like
sitting around a fire. Everybody was like barefoot, just in swimsuits,
just fat roles, hanging out. Nobody cares like everybody's just
hanging hiking, smell, you know, taking naps every but it
(16:00):
was just relaxed. And it was on that trip that
I actually realized that I needed to get this divorce,
Like this is has to happen now, and it was
really hard to wrap my mind around it. But we
were so at home with each other. I mean, I
don't feel I feel so myself with these girls, Like
it was so honest and they were just so supportive
(16:20):
and that the song just was really intimate the project.
And we'll get back to it. It's called Moon Riser,
so you can find all all five tracks there. And
I'll ask this quickly because I do want to get
into kind of the origin story of you in here,
and then we come back to this. But why moon riser?
Every night? That was like the main event. Like we
would have like a rhythm of the day. We'd hike
(16:42):
in the morning and then start writing around twelve or so,
eleven twelve, we'd write a couple of songs. That afternoon,
we would take a quick nap. Everybody would like get up,
maybe shower, but we would like start a fire, maybe shower,
like start a fire, kind of get dinner, going, eat dinner,
and like start writing. And but when the moon would
(17:05):
start rising, we'd be like, oh, she's coming up, She's
coming up. And just imagine over this ridge with these
all these dead trees. They have all these dead trees.
I don't know whether actually there's a Japanese beetle that's
why they're dead. But like the moon would come up
and we would just be like whoa, you know, just
like howl at it, and just it was like the
(17:25):
moment of our of our night. And we didn't know
what these songs were for. We weren't necessarily writing them
for an EP for me. We're just like writing. Were
they all written in this? Actually there was two trips.
There was one in Idaho and then there was another
one outside us. It was a signal mountain, same vibe, people,
same people, same thing, watching the moon rise, screaming at it,
(17:49):
yelling at it. Fire. Nobody, nobody died, nobody got eaten
by a wolf. Nothing, nobody got eaten by a victory itself.
No one of us came back and decided to get
a divorce. But that was all the damage that was done.
(18:09):
Growing up in Kansas? And did you grow up in
Lawrence or near Lawrence? I grew up in Lawrence. Have
you been to Lawrence? I have because I've played a
couple of shows in the school. Yeah. Yeah, because of
the University of Kansas. It is a cool town. So
but Kansas is KU. Yeah yeah, Kentucky is UK. Kansas
(18:34):
is k You did you? Are you a Jayhawk fan? Hell? Yeah? Okay?
So are you? Do you know that they're about to
play in a couple of days. By the time this
has heard, they're playing this you know this weekend or
the number one seas Oh my gosh, how do you
feel about that? I feel really good about it. It's
good to know. Well, my my family is always pretty down.
At the beginning of the season, everybody's like, oh, they
(18:55):
look horrible, you know, and everybody's like so down about it.
But then as things go on, I mean, we're really
lucky to have Why Lawrence, Kansas, Like why why did
your parents have you and have the family in Lawrence Camps. Well,
my mother was born there, my grant her parents grew
up in Neudora, which is just outside of Lawrence, but
they raised their kids in Lawrence. And my dad grew
(19:19):
up in Ransom, Kansas in Western Kansas, and he went
to KU And so my parents were both at KU
student teachings What's in your Blood and they met camping.
They went out like camping and they fell in love. Like,
oh yeah, it's in my blood. Did you go to
school there at all? Or did you just move off
and start being creative? Um? I did not go to
school there. I came to Belmont, Okay, so you had
(19:40):
you moved off to be creative. I mean Belmont is
a school where if you're going to do music almost
Oh yeah, I mean I understand that because I am
a die hard Arkansas Razor bake fan. I'm from Arkansas.
That's all we have. We don't have a protein. The Kansas.
They the Royals kind of split that with but they
would always lose. The Royals only started winning recently, and
(20:01):
same with the Chiefs, like it was just not the
best and like, hey, you, so you moved to Belmont
and I couldn't go to the University of Arkansas because
I was already working. I had to chase me and
it would hurt me so bad to not go to
school there because I had loved and adored but I
had to go and chase this dream. So you moved
to Nashville and you you you come to Belmont, But
(20:23):
why Belmont? Like what did you think you were going
to do by going to school in Nashville? Well, I
actually wanted to go to Berkeley in Boston and my
mom was like, no, it's too close to New York City.
And basically I don't trust you. Were you were you
a troubled kids? Know? I was like, I was actually
(20:44):
most honorable senior and my I don't know why she didn't.
I think she was just maybe it wasn't that she
didn't trust me. Okay, okay, I'm gonna be completely honest
with you right now. Okay. I something happened to me
in high school, Like a group of girls really broke
my heart. We're good now, we've all made up, but
they really broke my heart, and um it changed me.
(21:07):
Like that was kind of when I became a songwriter.
And like, I don't know how to say this other
than it was dark. It really hurt me, like big time,
and I questioned everything about my life. Um, I had
grown up like I was like such a good kid.
I was a people pleaser, like in grade school, and
I did go through something like when I was in
(21:28):
junior high I had like severe pretty severe anorexia. Um
so I've been through some things. But by the time
I got into high school, I mean I had like
a great time. I was in a cross country, I
was in band, I was inquired, and I was like
getting good grades and I had the best boyfriend ever,
Like he was such a great guy, you know, no
(21:49):
trouble there. But then that happened and I was just
like okay, everything from the clothes that I was wearing
to just my approach to life. I honestly feel like
it brought me into my artistry. I know that sounds
kind of crazy, but it was a catalyst. And um,
in college is when I really started exploring the wilder
(22:12):
side of life. And I guess I asked that because
maybe your mom was just super protective coming from Kansas.
Maybe it was New York City. She was afraid of
more than you going to more than me, because me
growing up in Arkansas, we were scared of it. That
wasn't a real place. That was a place on TV exactly.
So you you moved to Nashville, seems safer. Anyway. I
(22:33):
wasn't interested in singing country music, and so Berkeley was
more appealing to me. And when I first moved to Nashville,
I was really interested in like more rock and roll
because you did like a southern rock. I had a
jam b did you? Was it jams? And you did
new new songs, original original songs. Was original songs and
(22:54):
no and cover songs. And we were kind of um
doing it the way like Widespread Panic had done. It
was the that's what I hear. Oh God, it was
like I had a gym bay. I had like velvet
tide eyed skirts and like a gym bay, and like
bills around my ankles, and I mean it was fun.
(23:15):
We had so much fun. Traveling group of folks was
quite the scene. Oh, it was so much fun. We
played frat parties and like old miss and we went
to Arkansas. We played in Fayetteville and like it was
this southeast. What was the goal with that though? It
was to grow and to be part of that of
(23:37):
that scene. It was never to have like necessarily like
radio songs. It was all about the jam. It was
all about the show and like the energy and the connection.
But my voice just got tired of screaming and singing
that loud over two drum sets. And like you had
two drummers, I had two drummers. Yeah, and um, but
that's like some Doobie Brothers type stuff. It was Allman Brothers,
(24:00):
Dubie Brothers, UM. And we covered Almond Brothers and Dubie Brothers.
But um. Then one day in a dressing room here,
Eva Cassidy was playing in a UM. Are you in
college while this is happening? I was in college. Actually
I dropped out. I only went to Beaumont for basically
like a year before this story. You went for a year.
(24:21):
I just want to know why you went with the
intention to study what um just vocal performance and it
wasn't and it was very classical, So I wasn't getting
very good. It wasn't the country and it was classical.
It was classical, and it was very like. They let
me in on probation because they could tell I had
some rasp in my voice and that they were concerned about.
So it was always like, what does that mean? Promation
(24:43):
like you're going to jail if you suck, Like we're
gonna let you in, but if you don't do well. Right,
Maybe it wasn't called probable and the music penitentiary. Yeah wait,
maybe it had another name, like we'll see how this
goes with her name. Yeah, maybe I don't know. You're
you're okay, So let's go back to where you were.
So you're you're touring, You're in a room. Who did
you run into? So I heard an Eva Cassidy song
(25:06):
and she is I don't know, okay, you gotta check
her out. She's incredible. She's no longer living. She had
I think melanoma and died really young, but she became
it was posthumus that she became famous. And she has
incredible records. I mean any of you listening should check out.
It's e v A Cassidy. I mean, she's incredible and
(25:28):
it's just the most pure voice, and she's an angel.
She's I don't know else to say it, she's just
an angel. And I was just trying on some clothes
in addressing room and it just stopped me in my tracks.
I'm like, to the to the door, I'm like who
is this and they're like, this is Eva Cassidy. So
I went home and started listening to her music and
I was like, I am quitting this band. I just
(25:50):
wanted to hearing that vocal or do you remember what
it was? Remember the exact song or the record because
it was fields of Gold because you struck so much?
Oh yeah, it's called um. It wasn't feel gold. It
was a founded picture. It's called um. Time is a healer,
(26:13):
like we find that? Please? If I hear this song,
then I decided to go into like wrote it management.
I'm gonna be mad at mad at you. You may
me pivot my my career. Let's listen here the Burden
lit banger. It's the chorus that I love pay Do
(26:42):
you hear this and you're so struck? Why? What about
this spoke to you specifically the clarity in her voice.
I was pushing my voice so hard, and I just
loved the clarity in her voice and like the simplicity
of it. It was more song driven, and my other
(27:03):
songs with so Wicko we're jam driven. Still. Wickoka is
a pretty good name, though. Yeah, it was like it
was a fun thing. You know, you had put out
some songs yourself in the music world. Um, I want
to play for you in a sense, is from two
(27:23):
thousand six, he says, young. That was a top forty song.
This is a top thirty song. This is that kind
of Dave, It's time to s this is a this
(27:45):
is a number in the twenties. This is outside my
window two thousand nine. No, no long just a big
ring that. She doesn't sound Those were really hard years
(28:05):
for me. She doesn't It doesn't sound like I always
said back then. I was like, I was like, I
feel like I live five ft in front of my body.
I was never in my body. I was always like,
just like, let's go. Like I kind of had this.
I mean, I feel a little vulnerable saying this, but
I'm just gonna say anyway, Um, I kind of felt
(28:27):
like country music. I looked at like what Keith Urban
was doing and like he was a huge expander from
me because it was like really good music, like Golden
Road obsessed, like it was just good music. And um,
I guess I had this feeling like if my music
was just good, that I would somehow get to a
(28:52):
place where I then could kind of do what I want.
I saw people just like I had no idea, like
how hard it was to have a hit. I just
had no idea. I guess I kind of didn't think
it was going to be that challenging, and I was wrong.
I think it goes back a bit too too, Like
you just I don't realize. I don't know if you
realize you said it, but you're like, you know, make
good music and then it all happens. But it's not
(29:14):
just about making good music. It's also the promotion. It's
also the stars aligning. I mean, and I always had
this feeling like wherever I would look like, oh my god,
they're aligning over there, run you know, to go over
where they are aligning, and like, okay, I'll go do that,
like rather than just being yourself and like seeing if
(29:39):
they align. But that's a more sustainable way. I think
to have a career doesn't mean you'll be successful, but
at least you'll be fulfilled. I've learned the same lesson
that I've tried it a lot of different ways, and
that if I continue to try in my most honest way,
even if I fail, I really lies that I was
(30:02):
at least me when I failed, which is way better
than failing when I wasn't exactly me, because then I'm going, man,
if I had have just been me, who knows. It's
the worst to fail when you're not being completely authentic.
It's the worst. It sucks to fail if it's you,
but you always but you realize, well, at least this
is me, this is my stuff. Yeah yeah, but it
(30:24):
really sucks whenever you weren't your exact true self and
it bombed and you're like, why did I do that? Right?
Do you feel that way with? It's awful? I hate
hearing it. I hate it if you tag it. If
somebody tags me and they're like, oh my god, like
Sarah Bucks, then outside my window and they put like
I would never post that on my stories, Like it's
(30:46):
such a it was such a hard time. Would you
if you were let's say you're playing a show, would
you play outside my Window? Never? No? Never again? Okay, well,
let me play this is Stupid Boy. This is on
your EP first two seven. That's now. I mean, we'll
(31:13):
talk about the massive success that song had with Keith Urban,
but when you hear that back, that's okay. I was
gonna ask that sound the same as the other song, right,
and it was treated differently on the record. We cut
it with no click track, which is something you would
never do if it was going to be a single.
So you had a little more freedom to to go
your own way, even in very small details. But you
(31:36):
weren't right on with how exactly supposed to be right now,
I'll say Innocence is a is one that I feel
like I was being more authentic to, like that's an
actual story and it's like so, but yeah, I'm with you,
like Stupid Boy was totally. There's just these songs that
(31:57):
are gifts. That's a kind of land and you don't
really remember. I mean, I can tell you, like the
beginning of how that song was written, but I'm curious
because you write it and then you put it on
your record, and then did it until Keith Nicole and
we'll get to that story and a second until it
was discovered and redone like did it reach its peak?
(32:18):
It was just a song that you were proud of
that existed, and they kind of went away. Um, No,
I I felt that it was really special, like when
I for me, Like I I felt like it was
special for me. And then and then he heard it
like I I it was just special to me. I knew.
(32:39):
I knew the day that I wrote it. I was like, damn,
I love this song. It was like a new a
new thing for me. How did he hear it? Well,
Betsy uh Cook was her name at the time. Now
she has a different last name, and then her name
became Betsy mqugh. But um, she was working for Boorman,
(33:00):
Keith's manager at the time, and she's my age, really
good friend of mine, and we were just meeting. She
says that she played it for him on the bus.
And then I've heard Dan say that he played it
for Keith, So I'm not quite sure. We'd have to
ask Keith how we heard it. But I heard that
Betsy played it for him on the bus, and it
wasn't like do you want to cut this song. It
was like, we really want you to meet this girl,
(33:22):
because you know, it wasn't even about the song exactly,
it was about art. Yeah, and that was the song
she picked to play, So it wasn't the ones they
were thinking of as singles. It was like just the
one that she thought Keith would like. Well, imagine if
I had approached everything that way. But and the song
probably that she thought best represented you as a person. Yes,
here is Keith's Stupid Boy. By the way, Here you go,
(33:51):
CM a song of the your nomination at one Keith
a Grammy Vocal performance. And you know, all the sudden
you have written a massive hit, right And it wasn't
all of a sudden. And that's what's funny is you
wrote it, you recorded it, you're proud of it, you
love it. Then all of a sudden years later you
have a massive hit. Right now? Does that change people's
(34:13):
perception of you as a songwriter in this town versus
the artist? Only? Oh, I was so lucky that that
happened for the longevity of like my life and just
the way that I'm happy where I'm at right now,
and like I'm that I would never be right exactly
where I was if that hadn't happened. So, if I'm
getting this right, you stayed and the stars aligned over you. Oh, Finny,
(34:39):
that's amazing. Look how we just did that. I'm just
all I'm doing is observing and that that was the
stars doing what they're supposed to do, exactly in the
place that you're supposed to be living. I want to
play a few more and this this will not be
exactly um and you know the order we're telling the
story here. But some song because that Sarah's written another
(35:01):
Keith Urban song, put you in a song, Here you Go.
That's a good one. That's a good one. The vand Perry.
This peaked at number two according to this chart. In
Here's Don't let Me Be Lonely. By the way, both
(35:23):
of those songs peaked at number two. Yeah. Oh, and
there was all so put you in a song Stupid Boy,
and that was all number two. Stupid Boy was the
number two number two. I was talking to Keith Um
because Keith and I are friendly. We're more than just acquaintances.
But we don't hang. He's gone all the time, but
(35:44):
we're friendly enough where we can actually have a good
conversation about microphone, Yeah exactly, And so when we do
have a microphone, he opens up a little more. I
feel because he trust that I'm not going to take
him somewhere he doesn't want to go. We were talking
about maybe it was take you a kids and take
you for you know, yeah, you'll think you'll think of me.
(36:05):
Maybe that one, No, it was fly whatever. One of
his biggest songs are often the ones that weren't number one,
like his career biggest songs the songs that he has
known for and Stupid Boys one of them. Yeah, right,
weren't number one song. That number one is a chart. Uh,
(36:26):
it's a business plan by a record label. But that
doesn't mean that these number two songs aren't heavier in
people's hearts, right exactly? Number two is that is not funny?
Ironic a bit? Well, everybody was like, oh my god,
like is it ever going to happen? When I finally
got a number one, they were like, oh my god,
(36:48):
was it? The f GL song was like your first
one Sundays. To be honest, I don't know if it
was that one or fixed. I don't know which I
can tell you because I have the years. Yeah, it
was f G. L here and then two years later,
because it doesn't mean you wrote them two years apart,
(37:09):
because so you could rid them on the same day.
I don't know at the same time. Yeah, here's Chris
Lane Fix. You know, one of my favorite songs, and
she's just one of my favorite people. And I took
her and she opened for me. And one of the
great things that I get to do is take an
artist that I love because I just want to watch them.
(37:30):
And Jillian Jacqueline is that for me, and I just
I just love her who she is, her voice, her style,
like everything about her, and so I'm a big Jillian
Jacqueline fan. Remember we should put out reasons. I was like,
this is a good song, and you wrote that I'm
gonna play that here here you go. So that is
(38:01):
a very small nutshell, but of your body of work
as a songwriter over the past few years that people
would know from the radio, we got a lot of
other stuff. The question that I was gonna ask you
it kind of leads into where we are now. I
mean I was thinking about it before you came over.
And because you're wildly creative, do you ever go in
and let's say, just for the sake of this. The
name of the song is walking down the Street. Okay,
(38:23):
you go in, you say, I want to do the
song walking down the street. You guys write the song
talk about one day you walk down the street and
you ran into an old friend and that old friend
dat song over and that song really doesn't nothing really
happens with it. Maybe it's not that great, maybe it's
cut by the wrong person, if it gets cut at all,
(38:44):
and you're like, well, I like that idea, but what
we did there with it wasn't right. So when you
go into a room and go have the song about
walking down the street, yes, another room with other people,
your same idea, but collaboration with people that you work
in different ways with and then you present it to
them and I did that you thought may have worked
(39:05):
over here almost still the same idea to other people
and then actually turned into something. Does that ever happened
with you? Yeah. It's a thing about taking a title
back and taking a concept back. I think the way
you have to do it is just trust that you've
put enough kindness in the bank with people to be like, Okay,
that song that we wrote that is doing nothing that
(39:26):
hasn't gotten cut and it's just sitting there. I'm going
to take that title and you tell them, Oh, you
have to tell them. I think you need to tell
them because I would have called it be boffing down
the street my second version with I've definitely done that.
So but there are times where you've not been satisfied
with the result of an idea for who it could
have been your fault too, totally much as anyone else's,
(39:48):
and you go, man, we just didn't hit it, like
I want to use this idea though again, and you
go to a different room of different people, but you
will say, hey, room ay, that was good, I gotta
take it back. Are they usually receptive to that? I
mean most people are. I mean most people I work
with are. I'm sure there's people that aren't. But I
feel like I have one good idea to take it,
(40:08):
like thirty rooms the same exact idea, and I just
take it over and over. I took it. I actually texted,
and I'm kind of learning not to do this. I
think the lesson is don't do this. But like I
texted a friend and was like, I have a song
I want to write with you. It's called this, and
it's about without no no no no. But then but then,
(40:28):
but then you know, I don't have anything scheduled with them,
and then I'm actually tomorrow wanting to go in and it.
And so I had to text my friend and go,
I don't want you to think I'm cheating on you,
but I am taking that title back. And he actually goes, oh,
that's funny, because like I just gave a title to
so and so, and I think I'm going to take
it back. And I was like, here's your chance. Said earlier,
(40:52):
is that if you have enough kindness in the bank, yeah,
people will give you grace quicker, yeah, and probably fuller
than if you don't. I am learning that. That is,
if you're generally pretty kind to people, like treat people well,
let them know how much you love them, like when
you see them, really let them know that you can.
(41:14):
There's just more you can trust how much people love you.
You can really trust it. And I'm not a big
trust you, but I know what you're saying. That's also
what I'm going to therapy, like half an hour. You
can trust it. I am getting better. Yeah, you can,
you really can. I encourage you to. But that doesn't
mean like you can just go be don't worry. I
(41:35):
won't awful, but I'm generally not going to be awful
to someone generally, but occasionally I'm kid. We all have,
we all have, we all have. So whenever you decide
to finally put out your own project, M and you're
(41:59):
right in these saw do you is it purposeful that
you go, I want to do a project for me,
or do you go I want to go and write
a lot of songs And you start to go, wow,
this actually just kind of I is me? I identifying
that so usually, And it's been that ever since I
broke the seal and decided to start releasing stuff. I
think it was two thousand nineteen. I put a song out.
(42:20):
It was like the first one I've had in forever,
but it was called Only the Truth. But like since then,
I've been putting things out, but it was always things.
Only the Truth I did write for me, and then
I wrote Signs of Life. That EP was written for me.
Moon Riser was about I mean songs, you know your
(42:41):
life comes into your song, so it was about my
life and I ended up putting it out not knowing
when we recorded him that it would be for me.
But now I'm making another record and I'm actually really
um inspired to write for it, and it's a different
kind of it's gonna be a little more indie like
(43:02):
pop kind of. I think this is your problem. We're
here talking about another record. You're already promoting something else,
and you're like, I don't know how to promost stuff, don't, okay,
So it just makes stuff. It's a problem that we
will talk about. Then let's the truth comes out, you see,
Let's play perfect example, this Young from Moon Riser. I'm
(43:23):
never gonna be this young. I'm never gonna be this
green again. Times gonna do what time does? It's gonna
change everything? Are you looking back? Last and all the
beautiful pass stick? This is the next track, hard Things
(43:50):
Here you go. So don't tell me that I'm fratto,
not strong enough to leave. Maybe this CP is like
my vibe completely because I like slow and I like sad,
(44:12):
and I like uh not a lot of electric instruments
like that's if I have a choice. I was just
and I haven't listened it in a while, but I
was I'm having like shoulder rehab, hurt my shoulder like
a year ago, and so the lady was working on
my shoulder and I picked up We have a juke
box over the house and I always pick up a
full album to listen to. And I listened to the
Nirvana Unplugged album because one of my favorite albums ever,
(44:35):
you know, I mean ever and so, but from beginning
to end, and like, that's my vibe, this is my
love that. That's such a good reference. I haven't listened
to that in so long. I listened to that thing
so many times. I even know the word for word,
the spoken parts. This is a song by the meat Pup.
It's just like I can, I can go along with it.
(44:55):
Record um on the roof. This is a trick for
does up singing it up to the moon? We should you?
Why on the roof? It's too happy for me? But whatever,
(45:17):
Hey they can't you? I'm little too happy. And then
here's a runaway love number five. I love the project.
(45:38):
I'm gonna only for thirty seconds. I'm gonna ask you
about the next project you're working because I want to
make it about that. And I know as a creative
it's always like what are you doing now? Instead of what?
But what what? What's the difference in the project you're doing,
you're currently creating. Well. I we were talking earlier about
wanting to stretch your boundaries and do something that you've
never done, and Um I asked Todd Lombardo to produce.
(46:00):
He's an incredible acoustic guitar player, and we we came
up with the process originally because I was trying to
like save money and do something kind of on the cheap,
and so I was like, if if it was going
to be just you and I collaborating, and I was
just going to send him songs that have fallen off
of other projects. I was like, who's one person that
(46:21):
you would call to um work with? And he said
Nott Smith, who was a cello player that basically comes
up with cello parts that sound like keyboard parts. He
like fingerpicks it and he bows too, but he plays
like in the bluegrass world with like Sarah Jarros and
all kinds of different people. And in the studio that day,
(46:42):
I was surprised, like he didn't want to do these
other songs, like anything that sounded to country. He was like,
and I told him, I was like, I want this
to be full on collaboration. I want you to be
a huge part of this, and so the songs that
he picked were really interesting. The whole other thing, but
like the process and watching the two of them work
(47:06):
and the way that room felt made me want to
write specifically, like for that. And it's a different type
like one of the songs I I wrote with another artist,
and I was imagining it kind of being like a
Jackson Brown sounding song with like pretty normal chords and
the melodies sounds like a Jackson Brown melody to me.
(47:26):
And I sent it to Todd with no instrumentation behind it,
and he put these chords underneath it took it in
a completely different direction than I ever would have imagined,
and I was like, well, that's pretty amazing. And so, yeah,
I wanted to be about the record. I don't necessarily
want it to be like it all starts with a
(47:49):
song necessarily for this project, I kind of wanted it
to be like just a little more cerebral that when
it comes out we talk about that, yeah, exactly, and
now we're done talking about Now we're done. I want
people to get to know you as an artist, and
I hope they check out Moon Riiser because it is fantastic. Um,
(48:13):
I do want to play for you. Now. One of
my favorite songs that you wrote. I believe it was
number four in the Hot Country chart. It's a little
song by Mason Ramsey called Famous. That's such a good song,
(48:37):
Like if you take Yoto boy Mason Ramsey out of it,
that was such a good song. Like I think a
lot of people could have made that a smash. Yeah,
it did. It wouldn't matter who. I think you could
put Thomas rhet and so what I remember thinking when
he cut the song was Okay, this is good for
(48:57):
him because it's like famous for loving muse a it.
I was like, man, this song could have been a
massive h I mean, a monster for an established artist,
and they would have kicked the door down to get it.
I was hoping for f g L, Like that's what
I really wanted because Tyler's on it. I know, I
(49:18):
really thought it was going to be an f g
L song. And I didn't know you then. I knew
of you, and we had met and passing a couple
of times, and I didn't know that you'd written this
song at first. But I just remember hearing that song
and going out good for Mason Ramsey. You know, I
see what they're trying to do here right he had
that is such a great song they have gifted him. Yeah,
and just thinking if anybody else had this song, it
would be a monster. I know. Well, I just remember
(49:42):
being like originally going, he's so young. I mean, I
don't even know how young he was. How old was twelve?
Probably twelve? Yeah, probably twelve twelve? Talking about I want
to be famous for loving you. I guess boys would
get to more of that of a feeling than girls.
I don't know. When I was twelve, I wasn't thinking
about I guess I will was. There was boys when
I was twelve, But I think it's a boy to
(50:04):
your Do you think you know what it means? You know?
No way? But I loved it, and I thought that
was just a wonderful song. Um, and then lady A,
you wrote Ocean. Yeah, what was the name of that album?
Was name? Okay? That's yeah, that's what I was wondering. Yeah,
if you get the title, then that's what I I guess.
(50:25):
It's white Kid of my mind. If you get the
title track, do you really do you think it's gonna
be a single? I wasn't. I don't know. I hoped
that it would and the song. Actually, this was a
big realization for me. I was surprised they didn't pick
it as a single because it was streaming so well.
It was streaming better than there actual radio singles. Did
(50:47):
you maybe I know so much about this. Did you
write that? And I don't have this as in my notes,
I could be completely wrong. Did you write that with Tofur? Yeah?
I wrote that with Tofur, who wrote who I met
on the Jillian project? Ok, yeah, that's how I know
with the song because I know Tofur. Yeah, he's the best. Yeah,
and Abe Sto Classa got it and this is a
(51:07):
great song. And I think he too was. I was
talking to him at the time and he was like,
why is that not a single? Well, we learned it
was because it was streaming so well. Like the label
was making their money, you know what I mean, Like
we don't have to make another yes, Bobby, Hey, so
the label makes theirs, but you don't get to make yours. No.
But I was so proud of the way they recorded that.
(51:29):
If you listen to the way, um, Gordon Moate is
playing piano on that, and like they they took the
click out. I don't know if they ever had it in,
but like the way that they slowed down on that
last chorus just a little bit. I mean when I
heard that, I was literally just like, oh my god,
did they really just do that? Dan? Yes? It was
(51:51):
like so I was so proud. I thought, it's just
to have somebody cut your song and then have you
just be blown away by it. Such a great feeling.
She's sang them m she often does, but especially in
a song like that, She's so good. What did you
write today? Did you already write today? I did right
today with te Mecular Road. Oh yeah, was it about
(52:14):
walking on the street? Because if it was, no, But
I got that next. I got that in my head.
So do you come here tired? Meaning emotionally or mentally
tired from the right No, And I have learned I'm
just at a different place with my writing. I feel
like now that I've become just more prolific, and the
(52:34):
more the music that I'm releasing and the more I'm
letting myself just kind of be open about it. I
don't hold onto things anymore. I used to feel tired
at the end of rights because I was blocked. I
think my heart was blocked to just in my life
in general. And I just feel so much more open now,
and the lyrics that just everything just is flowing so
(52:56):
much easier for me, and the relation chip that I
have with those guys. It's just so good and it's
just a great day. I just I feel energized. Well,
I would be exhausted time I write anything. We writer
were writing comedy or I'm just like, oh my god,
I'm burnt. I've used every cell in my head to
(53:17):
try a funny as I possibly can. It's still not
even that funny. Maybe I should be trying harder. Maybe
that's what it is. Maybe maybe you only have massive
success because you haven't tried hard enough. I've got to
try harder. M one final note before we go, because
we've done over an hour, which I hope you've enjoyed this. Really,
I feel energized now. I'm not tired writ another song
I call walking down the Street. Um, we were look
(53:38):
you were nominated for This is not on my notes,
but I was maybe like two thousand eight, maybe two
thousand nine, and maybe both yours new female vocalists. It
was you, Taylor Swift and Kelly Pickler totally, and then
the next year it was me, possibly Kelly Pickler again
(54:01):
and Julienne Huff So I know Taylor one at year
one and Julianne wanted the next. Yeah, totally. That is that.
I mean, that's like it seems like a different life.
It was a different life. It really was. Um. I
remember getting botox that year because they were like so young,
(54:21):
and I was like looking at my face next to
their face, and I was like, I gotta put some stuff. Okay,
here's what's happening. Here's what's happening at Sarah Buxton Sarah
with an h and you can follow her and she
just sometimes post things like hey, I will sing for you,
I will come hook cook for you. Just postings like yeah,
just like I would like to sing more. I would
like to more, like right exactly. That's how she communicates.
(54:43):
So who knows, but at Sarah Buxton checkout Moon Riser.
It has been a real treat to spend an hour
with you, and it's been really cool. I've always been
a fan, usually from I wouldn't say five feet, from
like eight feet. Yeah, we're like one person away all
the time, you know, Dustin or if it's not tofur
(55:06):
or it's just you're right, there's not Eric. Now it's
three ft. Now we're extremely close. We're better, both better
for it. Well, thank you for sharing your story. Thank
you guys. Check out Moon Riser and check out Sarah
Buckston's Instagram. She could use the followers. I really could,
so could I frankly thanks, thank you,
Host
Bobby Bones
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